Want to write emails that actually get opened? Writing your weekly newsletters doesn’t have to be a chore or a bore. In fact, it can be fun!
On this week’s Social Media News Live, Liz Wilcox shares her proven process for writing copy that makes people “click” for more and building an email list that converts!
[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Welcome to Social Media News Live I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not
[00:00:04] Grace Duffy: I’m Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date in the world of social media.
[00:00:09] Jeff Sieh: Wondering how to build a lucrative email list that supports and fuels your business.
[00:00:13] Today we’re talking with my friend, Liz Wilcox about developing an email strategy that is writing copy that makes people want to click for more. And so Liz, I am so excited that you’re here today. Thank you so much for your.
[00:00:28] Liz WIlcox: Thank you. I am so excited and I said this before we hit the record button, but Jeff and I met I dunno about almost four or five years ago.
[00:00:39] And I was talking to him and his buddy, Erik, about my email list and how I wanted to sell my blog one day. And they were asking me some stats. They said what about your email list? And I said, oh let me straighten up my time here. This is where I really shine. And I was telling them some stats and they.
[00:00:58] John, the floor type of stuff, they were like, oh my gosh, that’s crazy. You should be charging double, you know what you’re thinking of selling your blog for dah. And so I really have Jeff and Eric to thank for where I am today. They were the first people to really encourage me other than my own subscribers and say you’ve really got something going on.
[00:01:18] So thank you, Jeff. I feel like I’ve made it onto the show.
[00:01:23] Jeff Sieh: Yes. And Lee and Liz has popped by quite a bit. She’s a faithful watcher, but I’m so excited. She’s sold like two companies by now and like this new membership thing. So we’re going to, we’re going to get into all that, but if you do not know who Liz is, you really should.
[00:01:37] She is. Princess of email marketing. She is an email strategist and keynote speaker showing small businesses how to build online relationships. She’s teaches them how to package up their magic and turn it into emails that people want to read and most importantly purchase from. So this is going to be so exciting.
[00:01:56] Thank you. Once again, Liz. Grace, can you tell, I’m excited that Liz is
[00:02:00] Grace Duffy: here? Yeah. I can tell that you’re excited and I’m excited by proxy. I like, as I was preparing for the show, super excited and shout out to our friend, Erik Fisher, that’s Erik. She was talking about, he is when he tells you something is good, he is spot on because he is.
[00:02:17] No one in the world of social media,
[00:02:19] Jeff Sieh: because we have some other people popping on going. Yes, Liz is awesome. Not that I’m biased by the name or anything says Liz St. Jean. So yes, that’s she is awesome. And it’s not just the name. Something else that is really awesome is our sponsors over at Ecamm.
[00:02:35] You can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm. That’s what makes this show possible? Even Liz told me before she’s she used it. She’s not used to being on the other side of the screen, but they’re amazing. They have some really great stuff going on right now. One of the things is that they have this new, simple program, like if you’re just getting started or you’re really wanting to learn more about Ecamm, you can go to ecamm.tv/simple.
[00:02:59] Our friend Diana Gladney is on there training about Ecamm and how to use it. It’s a great resource. And also they have this really cool thing right now at ecamm.tv/audio. It’s all about how to sound better using Ecamm and your mic and what kind of mic to use and all the setup that you need to do with their virtual mic.
[00:03:19] So they’ve got tons of resources. That’s why I love Ecamm so much, but you can find out more about that at Ecamm dot TV forge slash audio. All right. Let’s get into this because we’re talking today about writing click clickable copy. And this is something that, to be honest, I I struggle with I don’t know about you Grace, but you’re more of a writer.
[00:03:41] She puts the show together. I am not. And you’re actually a X, not X. Are you an X blogger? How would you
[00:03:48] Grace Duffy: say I was a blogger back in the day. So I worked in advertising, traditional advertising, and I decided to stay home with children and, but I wanted to keep my skills up. So I learned how to blog and learn how to code and did all that.
[00:04:04] And that’s how I kept myself. Correct. So in think I, thankfully I did, because that looks like work in social media. And then let me here with you, Jeff. Everything I have done in my life has culminated to this moment brings
[00:04:16] Jeff Sieh: you into Jeff. Yes, that’s what happened. All right. So let’s talk about delivering emails full of wins.
[00:04:22] So Grace, I know you had some stuff, so take it away.
[00:04:25] Grace Duffy: So Liz, you teach online entrepreneurs how to simplify this whole email marketing thingy. That’s why you’ve put it in their little website. I love it. And finally master their sales as a way of leveraging the personality, vision and values. And so let’s.
[00:04:42] Into it, because that is a lot, right? That’s a lot. So tell us why this whole email marketing thing is so valuable to businesses.
Why Email Marketing Is Valuable
[00:04:52] Liz WIlcox: Yeah. So I wouldn’t be a good email marketer if I didn’t come on and say, you own your email list. We don’t own social media. I know Jeff has really, on it with the social media, there’s, it’s constantly changing.
[00:05:10] They’re always changing the game and with email marketing, you own your list. When someone opts into your email list, you can take that email address with you, whether you decide, oh, today I want to use convert kit. And in a few months you decide, you want to move over to active campaign or MailerLite or whatever, whatever the new thing is that week you can always take your email list with you and when done properly.
[00:05:36] You can get, you can get a crazy ROI. So for every dollar that you spend with email marketing they usual status anywhere you can get, you can expect 40 to $45 in return. So over time when you follow the right strategies and you find your voice, you find how you can make clickable copy for your folks.
[00:06:00] It’s really gonna pay off for you more than, you could expect with any kind of advertising. And also what I love the most about email marketing and something that I don’t hear. A lot of people talking about is while email is one to many, right? You send one email to a whole lot of folks. You can very quickly turn it into one on one.
[00:06:22] And so with email marketing email is very, people know how to use it. It’s very comfortable saying Facebook groups just work for building community. The reason why email works for your people, they know how to use it. It’s comfortable and it’s private, unlike a Facebook group or an Instagram comment section, people are willing to really open up more.
[00:06:48] And if you know anything about sales, it’s not always about closing the sale. It’s about, starting a relationship. I think Mike Kim says that there’s a lot of other people there’s no such thing as an original thought, but I think I heard that from Mike Kim. And that’s what I, that’s, what I love about email is because it’s private because people really know how to use it.
[00:07:12] You can really get to know people and create products that just. Yeah,
[00:07:18] Grace Duffy: I love email because I can engage with it on my own time. There is it, like my inbox comes in the order that comes in and I can search up whatever I want to search up. So even if I don’t look at an email, I say, get an email.
[00:07:29] And even though I don’t look at it until I need that information, I can because it’s there and it’s in chronological order and it’s all mine. Like I can access it at any time.
[00:07:38] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So here’s the question. So this is Dustin says this and he goes, I spent a lot of dollars on email software. I don’t think I’ve gotten a four X, 40 X return on it.
[00:07:48] LOL. But we’re going to talk about that
[00:07:51] Liz WIlcox: because, and I’m here for you, baby. I had to interrupt let’s get this party going. I
[00:07:57] Jeff Sieh: do. And you need seriously. I’m going to put it up on screen again. And for you guys listening on on the podcast, it’s Liz wilcox.com, L I Z, w I L C O x.com. Make sure you guys check that out because she’s got an incredibly.
[00:08:14] I’m not going to say cheap, but incredibly. What would it be a nice way to say that it’s a great offer. Cheap accessible.
[00:08:23] Grace Duffy: Yes.
[00:08:24] Jeff Sieh: It’s amazing. Like I’m getting on it. Like as soon as
[00:08:27] Liz WIlcox: I’ll say it’s cheap it’s
[00:08:29] Jeff Sieh: but it’s and she knows what she’s talking about. Like when Erik and I heard what sh how many emails she had when she was getting ready, we’re like, oh my gosh.
[00:08:37] And so I want to back that up a little bit and talk about, okay, people who are just getting started, let’s say they start from zero and we hear it all the time, own your list. It’s yours. It’s the only thing you get with, even with social media, when it drive them to your list, everybody talks about all the big gurus do.
[00:08:56] So how do you start from zero? That is so daunting when you first get started okay, I’ve got this company, I’ve started this brand. I have zero email subscribers. What do I need to do for.
How Do You Start Building An Email List From Zero?
[00:09:10] Liz WIlcox: So how I have started every single one of my email lists is honestly on Facebook in my own personal profile.
[00:09:20] I just said, Hey, this is what I’m doing. If you’re interested in any way, I’d love for you to join the email list. So Liz wilcox.com actually was just an email list before I even had my website. Jeff and I met when I was an RV travel blogger. And so I, how I started that email is how I started my blog was I just got on Facebook.
[00:09:45] I shared a couple stories about oh, this is what I’ve been up to the last year. Tata. I, now I live in an RV. If you’re interested in coming on the adventure with me, boom, get on this email list that was before I had even published my first blog post. And when I listened to.
[00:10:06] Podcasts and such like this, and everybody says, oh email, mama didn’t raise no fool. Like I’m nothing, if not an efficient chick. So I said, okay, I need to build my email list. And so get on social media, Jeff has really good at teaching you about that and try to get people over onto the list.
[00:10:26] And, you can just be as Frank as I want you on my email list. If you’re interested in XYZ, I’m going to share all these tips and tricks. And then once you do that’s going to be a confidence booster for you. Of course, don’t expect thousands of people on your list right away. It might be just, a few people might be a trickle.
[00:10:46] You might have to DM some folks, but then I want you to think about your ICA, that ideal person. And think about if you’re, if you are a university, right? Like Liz Wilcox university, what is my vision for anyone that signs up for my list? If we are, we’re on the stage, I’m about to hand you your diploma.
[00:11:08] What is it that I’m handing you? You’re like, what did you get your bachelor’s degree in for me? It’s I want you to make money with email. I want Dustin to get 40, 80, a hundred times ROI. That’s my vision for him. I want him to be making money with email. And so as far as getting people on your list, take it all the way back.
[00:11:29] Take it to that first day of class. What is it you’re going to teach on that very first day, create a lead magnet for that thing. Create some sort of opt-in freebie, ethical bribe, whatever you want to call it, whatever we’re calling it in 20, 22. And that, create that freebie.
[00:11:51] And then get a landing page and just start putting it out there. There’s lots of different ways you can put it out there for me, honestly, I do shows like this. I do a lot of visibility work. And then I segue into, oh if you liked what my talk today, get on my list, blah, blah, blah.
[00:12:09] You’ll hear that spiel at the end. I’m sure. So stick around. Just putting it out there in different ways. And the last thing I’ll say about this is not only putting your freebie, putting your lead magnet out there, but putting yourself out there, you can see in the background over here, I’ve got an Insync poster.
[00:12:31] I’m wearing a headband, I’ve got colorful stuff in the background, right? That’s me putting my best foot forward, putting a little bit of my personality, putting, the Liz Wilcox into Liz wilcox.com. And so not only putting your freebie out there, but putting a little bit of that personality behind it is really gonna make you stand out, in that sea of freebies.
[00:12:54] Does that make sense?
[00:12:55] Jeff Sieh: Yes. And so you said something called, said, ICA, what’s an ICA.
[00:13:00] Liz WIlcox: Did you say that? Yeah. Sorry. Your ideal customer avatar, the person you really want on your email list. I knew that
[00:13:08] Jeff Sieh: I just wanted to explain it for everybody else. Okay.
[00:13:13] Grace Duffy: So I’m going to jump ahead with this question, Jeff, and I’m going to let Liz set us up.
[00:13:18] I’m going to set this up and then you, Liz, you help knock this down. So I’m curious, what are some of the biggest and most common frustrations? And you’ve been doing this for a while. So what are those biggest frustrations that you hear about when it comes to building an email list and how do we overcome.
What Is The Biggest Frustration In Building An Email List?
[00:13:38] Liz WIlcox: Oh, my gosh. I’m so glad you asked this question. And for all the really like into marketing people, like I want you to take a seat. Cause I think I’m about to blow your mind. I want you to stop telling so many stories. I want you to stop thinking every single email, every single post has to be a story that’s really daunting.
[00:14:00] Chances are you didn’t get into your business because you are this masterful storyteller, right? Most copywriters. And I used to be a copywriter. I used to do that for a living. They are masterful storytellers. Let’s leave that to the pros. And I don’t disagree that stories connect with people. I’ve told you several stories.
[00:14:22] Before we even got into email marketing, I was telling you a story about how Jeff and I met, like stories do connect. But when it comes to email marketing, when it comes to sending out a newsletter. I want you to remember this, like it’s a newsletter, not a novel. You don’t have to come up with this, beautiful story that segues into your point.
[00:14:43] That leads to some, $2,000 landing page product. You can just, you can connect instead with just personal. And that is just two to three sentences about something that you’ve done since the last time you emailed someone. So for example, if I was Jeff and I was writing his newsletter right after this, my personal update would be, oh, I just went live on the show with, somebody that I met a few years ago at a conference.
[00:15:14] She, she was talking about email, then she’s still talking about email now and then segue into the content. Anyway, and by segue it can be very simple, all caps anyway dot. What I really want to talk about is, I’m running this flash sale or, I just gave Grace a raise or whatever.
[00:15:36] Whatever you actually want to talk about that week. And then you can just sign off and then last in order to make those connections. In order to get people to click later, like the title of this episode, clickable copy doing P SS with a simple yes or no questions, for me it would be, PS, have you written your welcome sequence yet?
[00:15:59] Hit reply. Yes or no. If I can get people to start hitting reply. Yes or no. It’s so much easier to get them to click later. It’s so much easier to, like we were talking about at the top of the hour to open up that relationship, get people talking about, more than just surface level stuff, but we’ve got to start with that sort of surface level, small talk first.
[00:16:22] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. I want to go. Cause I’ve heard once again, I’m going to talk about gurus. What we hear these marketing gurus say, cause I talked to a lot, I’m gonna read a lot of their stuff. They say newsletters are dead. Nobody reads email newsletters anymore. So what you call them newsletters are, do we still say subscribe to my newsletter?
[00:16:41] Or do you say, subscribe for updates? Is there a best practice just now because newsletters are 2000.
Are Email Newsletters Still Valuable?
[00:16:50] Liz WIlcox: Yeah I don’t know. I’m I have in-sync poster and that, so 2000 and I still love them. Going back to what I said about email and, all the things Grace pointed out, like email is just comfortable for people.
[00:17:06] People use email, I don’t know where this, deaths by newsletter is coming from people definitely open emails and they definitely use email to solve problems. So why wouldn’t you want to be in the inbox? As far as getting people to subscribe, going back to having some sort of, freebie or opt-in.
[00:17:29] For me, obviously, I want you to get on my list and I know for the most part, just saying, subscribe to my newsletter, isn’t enough. So I’m thinking about, where my customer is at, where, if they enrolled in Liz Wilcox university, why did they enroll? What are they hoping to learn?
[00:17:48] And that’s what I’m giving them. And so I, my homepage, perfect, perfect eat cam overlay here. If you go to Liz wilcox.com, you can read through the home page. And basically my homepage is selling you that you need my opt-in, it’s telling you, oh, these are the steps. Here’s the first step. Oh, what a coincidence.
[00:18:11] My freebie is that first step. I already wrote it for you. You here’s a welcome sequence, you know it and make it your own type of thing. So that’s a really good example. But at the end of the day, you can say, I would say you could put it at your in your footer Hey, subscribe to my newsletter for tips, tricks, tips, tricks, and updates.
[00:18:35] You can do that. But in general, I would suggest having some sort of lead magnet that again, like if your person enrolled in your university, like what is the very first thing that they need to learn?
[00:18:48] Jeff Sieh: Okay. So Liz was wilcox.com. Make sure you guys go check that out because we got some great questions.
[00:18:53] So let’s let’s start with Dustin. Cause he’s got all sorts of things. He’s loving this. He goes, I’ve gone through like a hundred K male subscribers. I’ve trimmed it down to 25 K need help Liz. And we’re going to get into some more of this Dustin, but I want to go to Liz. Liz is St.
[00:19:13] Jane. Question, can you talk about the difference between email marketing for consumers versus other online businesses?
The Difference Between Email Marketing For Consumers vs Businesses?
[00:19:21] Liz WIlcox: Oh, she set me up for success here. So we talked about a little bit about how I started off as an RV blogger, right? And so I was not this B2B fresh princess that I am today.
[00:19:36] I was selling to men in their sixties that didn’t want to pay for electricity. That where the majority of their money was going to, paying off their kids’ student loans or something like that. And my, the biggest objection for them was, I don’t know what an online course is. This was back in.
[00:19:57] I think I launched my first real digital course in 2018 or 2019. And so they didn’t even know what that was. So I had to come up with different strategies, like the personal update versus the story to keep them engaged, to keep them, as 2000 as it is, on the newsletter, listening to me, caring about my journey and, staying interested in my products.
[00:20:23] So as far as if you’re B2C, you have to really think about, what is their capacity? What are they using email for? Grace said oh, I’m searching for things. If they’re the like, box or I’m sorry, the inbox is just like the mailbox. So the same way that you are treating your mailbox, right?
[00:20:47] Oh, that’s a bill. I’m not going to open it till later. Oh yeah. John moved three years ago. I don’t know why they keep sending this. Oh my gosh. Jeff sent me something. I have to open this right away. It’s the same, especially with B2C. B2B is a little different. They’re using their inbox, as an educator.
[00:21:06] But B2C it’s the same. Oh, this is a bill. Oh, I thought I unsubscribed to that. Gosh, they’re spamming me Marcus spam, or, wow. Liz sent me something. I can’t wait to see what she has to say. So as far as to answer Liz’s question, given that perspective, what, I just want you to lead with three things and this goes for Dustin too, and I’ve got a, I’ve got a thought for Dustin as well.
[00:21:33] Number one, just leave with a little bit of personality. Like I’ve been talking about share your vision with people constantly, especially with B2C, with B2B, we’re constantly sharing our vision. Oh yeah. I want, I want to hit this level. I want to get this many subscribers, whatever, do the same with business to consumer do the same.
[00:21:55] No matter what your business art is constantly share your vision of, I want you to do this. I know Liz works with a lot of corporate, she’s got a corporate audience. I think she helps executives and. I want this for you, sharing that over and over again.
[00:22:14] And then your values, that’s that third piece, the market demands that you share your values. Like I’m going to move my camera and hopefully not break the internet, but like right back here, like this is an entire thing that I keep held up behind me. All my values are on there. And I’m sharing those constantly with my people.
[00:22:35] So of course, values are told really well through stories, but especially in the B2C space, we don’t often have time to read stories all the time. So if you can just tell your people, oh, I always strive to be relevant, refreshing, bold, inclusive, whatever yours are.
[00:22:57] I created this product because. I want to be relevant, whatever your values are and just calling it out, being explicit, just saying exactly what you’re doing. That’s really going to help you, especially in the B2C world where people aren’t using their inbox, to help them with their business.
[00:23:18] Does that make sense? Yes,
[00:23:20] Jeff Sieh: totally. That’s awesome. Awesome. Advice. I am going to have to go through this again and take a bunch of notes. So I, grace, you had a really pertinent question that I know that a lot of people ask, so I’ll let you ask that.
[00:23:32] Grace Duffy: Is this about the day-to-day and nitty-gritty shaft?
[00:23:34] Yes. Yes. So wonderful. We’re sold on email. We’re sold on doing this, but let’s talk about that nitty gritty. Day-to-day how often should we be emailing our list? Like once a week, multiple times a week only when you launch a new product and when should we worry about annoying our list?
How Often Should We Be Emailing Our List?
[00:23:56] Liz WIlcox: Yeah. So I teach something called the email staircase. So first you have a follower, right? Get them on social media, wherever you’re finding people, wherever they’re finding you, get them on your list. You can turn them into a friend. And I’m going to explain this in a second. And then, because you have a list of friends, where am I, then you have a list of friends.
[00:24:17] You can basically just ask them like, Hey, do you want this? Are you interested? And turn them into customers really quickly. And this is something that I teach all my students. I teach inside my membership, every single newsletter that I write follows this email staircase. So what does a friend mean, Liz?
[00:24:36] Obviously, I don’t mean, your best friend that you’re sharing all your dirty laundry with, they know every single skeleton in your closet. People love vulnerability, but they don’t want to be, that involved right. You’ll only need three things to become a friend, especially in the inbox.
[00:24:55] Number one, you have to invest your time in them. So it has to be obvious to your reader, to your subscriber that you that you invest time in them. You can say something like, oh, I just spent an hour with Liz Wilcox learning how to make this email marketing thing actually work.
[00:25:14] Boom. They, it’s not conscious, right. But somewhere in the back of their head. Oh wow. Jeff is really spending time learning, how to help me write things like that. And then you want to share in a relatable way. When I had my RV site, do you think I was making like in-sync Justin Timberlake jokes?
[00:25:33] No, the majority of my audience, the majority of my audience were men in their sixties. Again, I was probably talking about, the grateful dead and you know where to get these awesome headband. At James Taylor, sticks, ACDC, whatever. That was relatable. Think again about that.
[00:25:55] That tricky word I used ICA, your ideal person, who are you getting on your list and share in a relatable way there. And that’s why I was talking a little bit about that personal update that is you sharing in a relatable way. Even if I shared something about, oh, I was on a podcast and my dog started barking or something.
[00:26:15] Even if you didn’t have a dog, you can relate to that. We’ve all been interrupted by, something that threw us off guard, et cetera. It’s sharing in a relatable way. And then that third thing to Grace’s point is staying top of mind. So pick out, who is your ideal person? Who are the people you get are getting on your list and how often do you need to stay top of mind?
[00:26:40] How often do you need to email. So everybody hates this answer, but it really depends. Of course the general rule of thumb is once a week. But if that gives you anxiety right now, if you’re like, oh my gosh, Liz, I have a million things. I might also have a nine to five, whatever I want you to just try twice a month and see what happens.
[00:27:01] And you can build, you can build that muscle into once a week. But I think in general, most audiences once a week is good. I know some Ecammerce folks do once a day, just buy or get off the list already type of attitude. It’s really about what you need and what your customer needs as well.
[00:27:21] So yeah, in general, just make sure you’re investing your time. You’re sharing in a relatable way and you’re staying top of mind. That’s gonna that’s once you can figure out those three answers, that’s going to give you. That’s going to give you the answer for how many times that you need to stay in touch via email.
[00:27:41] Jeff Sieh: So one of the reasons I’d love to in this show it’s free consulting. And so that’s what I love about having people. So let’s be real specific. So I, for this show, I emailed people once a week and it’s the night before it tells Michelle gives them the link and it gives us a synopsis of the show.
[00:27:57] Should I be emailing them? It’s a pretty blank email. It’s just Hey, this is the show. Come see it. It’s going to be
[00:28:03] Liz WIlcox: great. Yeah, no, Jeff. Yeah, this is great. I’m actually on Jeff’s email and I’ve been on it for a long time and I always wish that you had some sort of personal touch. It seems more honestly,
[00:28:20] Jeff Sieh: I’m telling you the truth.
[00:28:21] I’m like,
[00:28:22] Liz WIlcox: yes. He said consulting I’m saying insulting.
[00:28:26] Jeff Sieh: No, I want to hear it, bring it on.
How Can I Improve My Own Email?
[00:28:29] Liz WIlcox: So I would say something like, just adding a little bit of that personal update, maybe adding, how you found the guest And what you’re most looking forward to, and then, linking out to, let’s say our sponsor, he cam every once in a while or doing a feature on Ecamm Y I, I picture an email somewhere, maybe once a quarter about, why he cam over and over again you choose as your sponsor for your show, right?
[00:29:02] Things like that. And. I would suggest to you as you get more comfortable with making that email just a little more personalized, a little more Jeff. And Jeff did during the pandemic, he did like a woodcarving thing where he was carving like many gnomes, like even putting little things like that in there is gonna set him apart.
[00:29:23] Even a picture of him in his beard. That’s going to make me remember, oh, that’s that guy? I know, I really liked that episode. I’m going to, I am going to click over to the next one, just giving a little bit of that personality and then it’s missing the vision. Why did you pick Liz Wilcox for this episode?
[00:29:43] What are you hoping your viewer gets out of this? And I’m picturing Dustin right now. Like how was right? Those are the people, those are real people on your email list. So sharing a little bit of personality, a little more vision for them for every episode is going to get a lot more clicks.
[00:30:01] And then I would say, as you get more comfortable someone like you could actually have a second email a week sharing something else, like an affiliate link to E cam or, to my membership wink to restream whatever, et cetera, et cetera, you do a lot and you promote a lot and having those separate emails.
[00:30:26] When done right. Could really increase your revenue.
[00:30:30] Jeff Sieh: See, I see. Yeah, I’m a Guinea pig. I’m so I want you to let you go. I want you guys to tell me in the comments, what do you think? Do you think I should be more personal? Should grace might be more personal or emails? Because to be honest, it’s one of those things.
[00:30:42] I check off the list to get the show ready. I’m like got us in the email, got to get this done.
[00:30:46] Grace Duffy: You and I are going to fix this.
[00:30:49] Jeff Sieh: Gary says more Jeff jokes. I don’t know what you mean by that. Gary, I’m making fun of Jeff or you want me to tell jokes? What do you want?
[00:30:57] Grace Duffy: We should tell people.
[00:30:58] We should reveal our process for finding guests. It’s Grace gets really lit up about a topic and then badgers Jeff to death. And we he agrees to let us do this.
[00:31:09] Jeff Sieh: So Gary has a great point. Another good point. He says, and he’s watching over on YouTube. Thanks Gary for that. Because I love Ann Handley’s total anarchy newsletter.
[00:31:17] It sounds like it’s an ride to me every second Sunday. I agree. She has one of the better emails that I always opened and listened to. And yes, and that’s a lot of work, but I’m going to try it. Maybe we should try it for a month. I will put myself out there and do it for a month. Then I’m going to subscribe to Liz Wilcox, her group.
[00:31:37] So I’m going to go in there and get all the tools,
[00:31:41] Liz WIlcox: I write it for you every single week nine.
[00:31:45] Grace Duffy: Yeah. Let’s talk about writing. Cause Gary actually has another question. It was further up. It was while we were talking about something else, but he asked me, what do you think of tools? What do you think of tools like Jasper, which is now jar or Jarvis now Jasper forgot which way they went with help with subject lines.
[00:32:00] And I use Jasper or drivers say, I think it’s Jasper now like that. They I use it all the time for. Were they that what it was
[00:32:10] Liz WIlcox: Mickey mouse has a, they
[00:32:13] Grace Duffy: have it out. They say, if there’s anything you don’t want distribute on the internet, have a beauty and the beast soundtrack and Disney, we’ll take that down for you.
[00:32:21] But what about these AI things? That’s a great question, Gary. Thank you. What do you think about that?
What About Using AI to Write Emails?
[00:32:28] Liz WIlcox: Gary, if they work for you, I think that’s great. So as far as. Jasper goes, I haven’t personally used it, but I have a lot of friends that do, and they say it works well. But what I want you to know about subject lines is just write them for a friend.
[00:32:44] You’re not writing a blog post title. You’re not writing for an algorithm or SEO. And so what would you really, what would you write if you, if it was just, you were sending an email to me personally, and I suggest writing the actual email first and then going through and what’s the point of this.
[00:33:04] And if I was sending this to Liz, my friend, someone that I know what would be the subject line I would use to get that, to get Liz to open it. And those are your, those are really good subject lines. So instead of if I was gonna, blast this out to my email list, I wouldn’t write, name of show, check me out today.
[00:33:28] I would just write, Hey, I, Hey, I want you to watch. Something like that. That’s what I would literally send to Jeff or, if I saw a very interesting or a funny Instagram, real that I wanted to share to my list, it might be, saw this and thought of you.
[00:33:48] That’s what I would literally send over to Grace. Cause I, I saw this, I thought of my email list. Boom. There you go. Does that make
[00:33:55] Jeff Sieh: sense? Yes. So quit trying to be all corporate and sounding smart.
[00:34:01] Grace Duffy: Gary, just write about decision models and boring stuff like that. You know what, to someone that’s not boring to someone that is fascinated by that topic that is not boring.
[00:34:10] And they would probably love that email about decision models, because I don’t even know what that is and I’m intrigued, so
[00:34:18] Liz WIlcox: whatever. Yeah. I’m picturing a subject line do you love decision models? Just like. Question mark. That’s the subject line. If the answer is yes, I’m opening that email, right? One of my favorite I’m on an email list for a database person, her name’s Ann Emery. She works with the UN and all this, all these other government agencies.
[00:34:44] And she has this amazing email list and yeah, she’s very, very corporate she’s talking to people, that need to learn database for their jobs. But her subject lines, maybe they’re not as wild as Liz Wilcox’s, but they are very casual things like that. You can have a serious topic and still have an interesting subject.
[00:35:09] So Liz,
[00:35:10] Grace Duffy: what would you consider a healthy open rate or healthy click through rate when it comes to email? Because I think that a lot of times you do it and, you share your stats like you did, you were talking about sharing your email list with Jeff and Eric. And they were like, whoa, like they’re blown away.
[00:35:25] Cause it was really oppressive, but I’m sure at the time you had really nothing else to compare it to, whereas they had. And so it was very impressive. And so I think sometimes we look at things or you look at something you’re like, that’s a really low open rate, but then you talk to someone else. They were like, no, that’s amazing.
[00:35:38] So give us a place to level set expectations.
What’s A Healthy Click-Thru Rate for Emails?
[00:35:43] Liz WIlcox: Yeah. At the time of this recording it’s fall 2022. No, it’s not. It’s April 20, 20 and apple iOS updates have really changed the game. As far as email metrics go. I was in denial for a while. But as far as an average open rate, Open rates nowadays tend to be inflated.
[00:36:11] So anyone that uses apple mail, like on their phone or on their computer, where all their inboxes filter into apple mail apple is essentially for the most part, we still don’t have all the data on this, just auto opening for you. It’s signaling to my email service provider. If you’re using apple mail that you are opening and even sometimes clicking.
[00:36:37] So even prior to this iOS update metrics, weren’t perfect, but they were pretty darn good. And now they’re all over the place, but I will say this. Causing it to auto open or be, signaling that this has been opened, even when it hasn’t is actually inflating your open rate instead of deflating.
[00:37:00] So I hate to say this might be crushing for some people. So in the last six months, if your open rate has suddenly skyrocketed, that’s probably inflated, but I can say with some pretty good confidence that across the board, it is even, it’s not one week they’re inflating the next week. It’s changing its mind.
[00:37:21] So if you consistently have, a 45% open rate, let’s say you can gather it’s anywhere from five to 20% inflated, depending on your audience, depending on how many people use apple mail. Of course, that’s almost impossible to find out. I did see in a Facebook group a couple of weeks ago, or maybe even last week, One email service provider.
[00:37:46] I cannot remember. I’m so sorry. That was actually had some sort of capability with showing apple mail or something similar to that. And that seems promising to be able to filter that out or in to see, to be able to cross reference, but this is all still very new, but to answer Grace’s question in general the higher, the better, of course, because open rates affect your deliverability.
[00:38:15] I call them like the internet gods, on social media, we have an algorithm while we don’t technically have, that same algorithm type of thinking with email, there are the internet gods, creating some kind of credit score for you where you want people, where they put you in spam or the inbox.
[00:38:33] And so you want to have a good deliverability rate. So I still say, look at your opening. And make sure it’s staying consistent. If you get a sudden drop or a sudden increase, you can, you can say okay, yes, that actually was an increase and dissect that for, oh, I’m going to do more of this subject line.
[00:38:52] Cause it did really well. Or, people didn’t like that. I’m not going to do that again. But in general I want you to look at if what was his name, Dustin? He said he had 25,000 people on his list. He just called it. Congratulations. I’m sure that was really scary. And you worked really hard for a hundred thousand.
[00:39:14] So to delete, 75%. Was no small feat. So congratulations there, but for you with a bigger list, if you’re getting right now with the inflated rates, if you’re getting about 30%, I would say that’s probably pretty darn good. That’s probably more like 20%. And I would still like you to be working on making it better, which I have some ideas if we have a little bit of time there.
[00:39:41] If you have a smaller list, of course you could see anywhere from, I’d say, 35 to 60%. My open rate right now is consistently showing about 60 to 65%, which I can gather is probably 45 to 50%.
[00:40:02] Jeff Sieh: And that’s really good compared to what other people are
[00:40:04] Liz WIlcox: saying. So yeah, they say the average is like 10% but honestly, with small businesses, it usually is more than that.
[00:40:12] They’re taking into account like. NFL NHL and be, those giants have email lists. 20 to 40% you think inflated 40 to 60% would be really good for you.
[00:40:26] Jeff Sieh: Okay. I want to go back to this question because I wouldn’t think it’s really good. And this is from Dustin. Again, he is just all over it today.
[00:40:32] Cause he wants to get this fixed. He goes, I seem to be great at getting email subscribers, but not so great at nurturing them and making profit from them. So that’s the question that we talked about. We had earlier, we skipped, but okay. Let’s say I have a great email list. I get people to opt in to my free offer or whatever.
[00:40:49] But my open rate stinks and I’m not selling anything. What’s my problem. What am I doing wrong? This,
My Open Rate Sticks. What Am I Doing Wrong?
[00:40:56] Liz WIlcox: You have not set a firm foundation with them. You have not set any expectations that this is a marketing channel and you expect people to open, click and buy. That’s your problem. If I do say so myself.
[00:41:12] You don’t build a wall, right? You just lay one brick at a time. You’ve got to set a firm foundation. So you can use this as a welcome sequence or a re-engagement. So I’m going to talk about this as a re-engagement for Dustin. So this is what I want you to do, Dustin. I hope you’re so watching, listen up, turn it on, turn it up, pull over whatever you’re doing.
[00:41:34] Grace Duffy: Multitasking, Dustin,
[00:41:38] Jeff Sieh: the cab
[00:41:39] Liz WIlcox: close the tabs. This is just for you. So what I want you to do today, if you have the time is Stripe, this re-engagement sequence. So if you’ve got a freebie or, some kind of lead magnet, I want you to resend it to every single person on your list and say, Hey, I, whether you’ve been on my list for six months or five years, I.
[00:42:03] You might not have ever gotten this, or you might not have used it, something, some kind of language around that. Here it is. And the subject line might be, feeling generous today and you just give them something for free, it could be a freebie free paid product, whatever.
[00:42:20] And then you say, oh, by the way, in case, in case I never introduced myself, something like that, I’m destined, if you only know one thing about me, it’s this. And then the, and then that’s where you share your vision, right? Where, what diploma are they getting from you? What’s their degree in. And so for me, I would say something like as much as I love the nineties, that’s me injecting a little personality. I love the idea of you making money with even. So as much as I love the nineties, I love the idea of you making money with email even more, right? Boom. Get the heck out of there, peace out, Dustin, whatever you would say, the second email, and you can send it the next day.
[00:43:04] You can send it, a couple of days from now, it’s up to you, how aggressive you want to be and how you normally email your list. I say, be aggressive. But that’s probably why I’m divorced. So the second email is your best content. And this is, you’re putting your best foot forward. You’ve got your suit and tie on type of thing.
[00:43:25] Hey, this is what I’m all about. This this is my really best stuff. And so for me, I, I love getting on shows like this. I love teaching the email staircase. I love giving quick tips. So for me, my best content is a video. I send them, it’s a loom video and it’s introducing myself, Hey again, Liz Wilcox here.
[00:43:46] Blah, blah blah. And I give my number one tip. I’m probably sharing something about the welcome sequence. I can’t remember. It’s been a long time, but just make, you can make a quick video or if you’ve got a blog post, your favorite podcast episode an Instagram reel you made that really blew up, whatever, just share something that shows people, what they can learn from you and how you teach.
[00:44:10] A little bit of your style, the third email, and this is the ding, everybody, listen up. If you take one thing from this entire episode, this is what I want you to take. You’ve got to set expectations. There has to be that third email setting expectations. What should they expect you as being part of your newsletter?
[00:44:31] For me, it’s, I’m going to offer you lots of laughs. As we learn about email, right? Lots of laughs is showing a little bit of that personality I was talking about. I want people to have fun with email. You might be more practical or no nonsense say that, I’m going to give you no nonsense tips on, how to run a social media campaign or whatever your thing is, right?
[00:44:52] Number two. And this is really where you are going to change your entire email list. And as you do this re-engagement, this is what I turn them into. Welcome emails. I’m going to offer you free and paid products. I’m going to offer you a free and paid services. Whatever word you want to use.
[00:45:13] This is where it just flips a switch in the back of their mind from, oh, Dustin’s just some guy I get free content from. He emails me up so annoying gosh, this is a marketing channel. He’s going to offer me some free stuff and some paid stuff that way, when you actually do go to sell, not only have they given you permission because they’re still on the list, you told them you’re actually fulfilling a promise and you’re becoming more trustworthy.
[00:45:43] Oh, Dustin said he was going to offer me paid products. Here’s one of his paid products. This is a man of his word. And then you can link out to S you can have other bullet points. You can link out if you’re trying to build your TikTok, oh, I’m gonna do daily TikTok over here.
[00:46:01] And then I want you to say how often you’re going to email them again. You want to show that you are consistent, that you invest your time in this email is going all the way back to the top of the hour, talking about investing time. I’m going to email you every Tuesday afternoon with tips on how to actually get people to buy from your emails.
[00:46:24] That’s what my bullet says. You might, I’m going to email you on the first and the 15th of every month. I’m going to email you every Sunday night, et cetera, et cetera. And this is especially good for those B2C people that Liz was asking about. You’re telling them, you’re investing, you’re telling them what’s coming and you’re telling them that you’re going to offer paid products.
[00:46:45] Even if you don’t have a paid product yet, just put it in there. I started this with my RV blog and that’s how I was able to actually sell to people that don’t even pay for electricity. And don’t know what a digital course is. And suddenly, they’re buying digital products from me left and right.
[00:47:03] And then the fourth email is this is where you tell a little bit of story. This is where. You can share your big why is it you do what you do for me? It’s, when I realized that everyone was complicating email and, I made, I had 141 people on my wait list for my first digital course, and I made 141 sales when I realized that was not the norm.
[00:47:29] I was like, oh my gosh, I have to go teach this because I grew up poor. And how many other people are out there struggling, on the struggle bus or climbing struggle mountain when I can actually simplify this for you. So sold the RV blog, went all in on this. This is where I’m sharing that story.
[00:47:48] And I mentioned that, doing that in the fourth email for a reason, because, remember we’re following the staircase, we’re trying to turn people into friends. So you don’t, you don’t lead with the story. Nobody cares yet, but if you can. Put your best foot forward, share a little bit of your vision, share some of your best content set expectations.
[00:48:10] Hey, here’s what’s to come. If they’re nodding their head with those three emails by the fourth, that’s really going to seal the deal for you. So I recommend sending those out as a re-engagement Hey, here’s what to expect for the rest of 20, 22. Thanks so much for being on this email list, boom boom. But that’s really gonna turn the tide for you, Dustin.
[00:48:33] Jeff Sieh: Wow. And see Dustin, he said he had a phone call and he had, he lasts the last five minutes. So you’re going to have to go back and rewind it. It was a mic drop moment, Dustin. So yeah, you’re going to, we’re going to be there.
[00:48:43] I’m going to be quizzing you later about this. Gary is like, Hey Dustin, you can back it up. It’s not that hard. So thanks Gary. Gary said something else. When he was talking about open rates, he goes 65%. Holy mailbags. Batman. So yeah, that. That’s why we have lids on this show. So I want to stay on this section because we only got about 10 minutes left and I want to dive some deeper into this because I think a lot of people get confused, but let’s talk about when should you segment your list?
[00:49:14] Cause that’s another thing I was like, okay, it’s time to, I’ve got 10,000 fall on my list. I need to segment. Should we not? Does it matter? What are your thoughts on, calling your list and segmenting and all that kind of stuff?
Should I Segment My Email List?
[00:49:29] Liz WIlcox: Yeah. So I’ve had three email lists. I have never segmented.
[00:49:34] I’m a two-step check if it takes three steps I’m out of there. So I tend to, come on, I tend to keep my email marketing simple because I want it to be full of wins. I want it to be fun. I’m not going to do anything. That’s not fun. And chances are, if email isn’t working for you you might be overthinking it or trying too hard.
[00:50:00] And yeah, maybe so as far as segmenting goes, if it makes sense in your brain. Sure. Go ahead and do it. If it’s one of those things that it feels like, oh, I should do this then. Probably put it down until later, if it’s feeling too stressful for you or like too much tech or anything like this you don’t need this, like here’s your permission slip to just, drop that for now.
[00:50:32] Now if you do have totally different audiences, you can segment, like for me, I have a membership and at this point in time it has 1400 members in it. So I have people I have Ecammerce I have network marketers. I have bloggers. I have the typical course, internet course creator. I have copywriters web, I have lots of people in there.
[00:50:55] So if I wanted to, I could segment that out. Once I get to that third step, if I ever sleep enough to make it to that third step, by the end of the day, I would segment them and oh, I wrote this newsletter template just for Ecammerce. Oh, this is just for these people. But at this time, it’s not in my capacity or capabilities to segment in that way.
[00:51:18] So I just drop it. Does that make sense?
[00:51:21] Jeff Sieh: Yes, that’s awesome. So when you call your list, I know a lot of you’re charged for the amount of people subscribers you have. Is there a certain amount of time you go through and if people aren’t opening your email, you kick them out or do you try to re-engage them?
[00:51:34] How, what are your thoughts on that list?
When Should I Delete Subscribers To My Email List?
[00:51:37] Liz WIlcox: Yeah, so I love the idea of calling cold scrubbing, getting the dead weight out of there. Again, this goes back to a deliverability issue. If everyone, if going to Dustin, he said, he, he deleted 75% of his list. If 75% of the list is not opening.
[00:51:57] That’s really bad for deliverability because let’s say, you’re trying to get on my email list. Let’s say Jeff’s already on there. And Jeff has it opened up an email in two years, and then suddenly Grace tries to get on my email list and I’ve got two years of track, bad track record with Jeff, the internet gods.
[00:52:18] So to speak are going to say, oh Grace really isn’t going to want to see these anyway, because Jeff has been on here for two years saying no. So we’re just immediately gonna put Liz into spam. So that’s how that works. Like as far as the deliverability issue and why you should call your list, even if you’re like, oh gosh, I spent a lot of money building this, or I, this took a lot of time.
[00:52:40] That’s why you really want to. And I recommend even with the apple iOS. Again, that’s inflating the amount of people not deflating, the amount of people. I still recommend calling your list. I do it at least two times a year, if not once a quarter. I think if you’re doing it less than two times a year, you’re probably letting a lot of dead weight stay on your list and bring in that open rate, bringing that deliverability down.
[00:53:08] A lot,
[00:53:12] Grace Duffy: Question for rich here. It says how important is double opt-in. I know opt-in is required legally in some places, but what about a double.
How Important Is The Double Opt-In For Subscribers?
[00:53:24] Liz WIlcox: Yeah. So with the double opt-in, like Grace said in some countries and some places of the world, it is illegal not to have the double opt-in.
[00:53:35] I personally, with Americans, with people that live in the United States, I do not have it. I find it’s a barrier, but that is only because I know that I have a proper welcome sequence. I have designed the welcome sequence and you can get it for free Atlas, wilcox.com to see what I mean for people to, give consent like those expectations to know what’s coming and to opt out at any time.
[00:54:03] I’m actually in that third newsletter, the expectations when I even say, hit reply too legit to quit. So I know you’re in. And that is the most. You’re not going to say that, but you could say something similar that is the most opened email is the most replied to, but it’s also the most unsubscribed because they’re like, oh no, actually, I liked her freebie, but I’m not really into, getting this once a week or whatever.
[00:54:30] And so it’s the most unsubscribed as well, but most people feel comfortable with the double opt-in. So I would say if you’re going to do the double opt-in, if that feels right to you or the majority of your ideal customers are coming from different parts of the world, turn it on. Just personalize that click here to double opt-in a type of email, make sure you can turn that into your first email where it’s like, Hey, here’s the thing.
[00:54:59] You got click here to get it, by the way, I’m, what was his name? Richie. Ricky. I can’t remember, by the way, I’m rich. If one thing about me, let it be this right. And that whole schpeel just put that in there because you’re wasting a lot of the reason why I don’t like it personally is you’re wasting that very first email that most opened email ever on a double opt-in.
[00:55:27] So if you’re going to turn it on, at least personalize it. So people don’t feel like, Ugh, this is just another step to get the free thing, like I’m over it. Does that make
[00:55:39] Jeff Sieh: sense? Yeah. Last question. Rich says, wow. What print parameters do you use to remove subs two years, six months, et cetera. How long. I don’t want, if they’re not, open and stuff, what do you, what’s the limit?
[00:55:52] Liz WIlcox: I’ve I just follow, I use convert kit personally, and I think that they do 30 days as, at 30 days. I can’t remember whatever that, whatever they tell me as a cold subscriber is what I use. I think it’s 30 or 90 days, you might even be able to set it nowadays. But I would suggest in general 90 days or less, or 45 days.
[00:56:18] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. All right, don’t I get the best guests. Come on, folks. This has been amazing. Yeah, at listless, Liz likes this guest. But if you’d like guests like this, would you do us a favor and just share this out, let people know about this show because it really does help us out and make sure that you go to Liz wilcox.com.
[00:56:39] So Liz tell us what you’re doing, where do they can find you? What do they get when they subscribe? All the stuff that is Liz.
Where To Find Out More About Liz Wilcox
[00:56:47] Liz WIlcox: Oh, Jeff. I’m so glad you asked. So of course I’m an email marketer. I want you to join my list. You can go to Liz wilcox.com in the top right hand corner. There’s going to be a hot pink button.
[00:56:59] You can’t miss it. It says free email swipes. So all those things I was talking about today, having a proper re-engagement or welcome sequence writing newsletters with personal updates, subject lines, you’re actually going to get all three for firstname.lastname@example.org. You’re going to get an entire welcome sequence.
[00:57:17] All those four emails. I was telling Dustin when he left you’re going to see all of those written out so you can take and make them your own. You don’t have to come up with it from scratch. Then you’re going to get three newsletter examples. So you’re going to see what I mean with that newsletter framework of personal updates, segue into content, sign out, and you’re going to see different business models using them.
[00:57:40] They’re all written from different business angles, and then you’re also going to get an entire year. 52 subject lines. So you never have to write from scratch. You never have to think you never have to use a Jasper or anything. I’ve already written them for you. And those were emails are those were emails, subject lines that have all garnered me a 40% open rate or higher.
[00:58:02] So you can get that email@example.com that hot pink button you can write.
[00:58:07] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And we have our Dustin even says before my phone call, I had already subscribed to Liz’s list and got all the freebies so way to go. Dustin, you get a gold star for today. And also who gets a gold star is our sponsors at Ecamm.
[00:58:21] They are amazing. They let this show happened. You can find out more at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm. They have an awesome email that you wanna make sure you subscribe to. And they do call their lists regularly because I see those emails all the time and I’m like, yes, I want to stay in it.
[00:58:35] But they have great stuff we talked about earlier today. There’s they have the where is it the simple where the Ecamm.tv/simple, where you can learn some tutorials about that. So make sure you go check that out and also their audio, you ecamm.tv/audio.
[00:58:52] How to use your mic, how to set it up properly, get the best sound for your equipment. So make sure you guys go check that out at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm. Once again, somebody who, we Grace and I get the best guests, but Grace helps put the show together. Grace, where can people find out more about all the amazing Grace Duffy?
[00:59:13] Grace Duffy: You can find me when I’m not here with Jeff and our amazing guests. You can find me over at restream I’m their video content manager, and we’ve been kicking off a lot of really cool live shows. So I actually had a really cool interview last yesterday, last week yesterday, it felt like last week yesterday about this guy who runs obstacle, racing media, it’s all about those obstacle racing, obstacle races, and how he goes into the field and records these live on mobile.
[00:59:43] And then also comments on them. It’s like his own little ESPN for obstacle racing. So check out those customer stories over there and I am hosting those. So they’re
[00:59:54] Jeff Sieh: that’s right. Always, it’s always good to have more grace. And by the way, thank you guys so much for watching. We are also a podcast we’d love for you to subscribe to that as well.
[01:00:03] And you can always find us at Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Amazon live. Next show is Friday, April 22nd at 11:00 AM. Eastern 10:00 AM. Central Liz. Thank you so much for being here today. And with that, thank you for our amazing audience, Dustin, all the great questions, Gary. Marise all good.
[01:00:22] Sabrina who always shows up. Thank you guys so much for being here. We really appreciate you. Make sure you come to see us over on volume. We’ll see you guys next time. Bye everybody.