SHOW TRANSCRIPT 

[00:00:00] Welcome to social media news live, where we keep you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media. We’re going to talk with industry experts, innovators, creators, and storytellers about the latest social media tools, tips, and tactics. And we’re going to broadcast. Live. So you can ask the questions that matter most to you and your business.

[00:00:19] I want to introduce my pal, Eric Fisher. He is going to be sitting in for my co-host this week. He is the producer and host of the long running, beyond the to-do list podcast for over eight years. We’re going, man. That’s an old podcast, but he talks with real people who implement practical productivity strategies in their professional and personal lives.

[00:00:38] He is also the director of social media education for a Gora pulse, where he heads up the social media manager school. We mentioned earlier. one of the things is the show is brought to you by Agorapulse and it is the best social media management tool to let you post monitor schedule and report all in one place.

[00:00:57] And. This is brought to you by the social media manager school, you can go to social media manager, school.com. It’s powered by a grow pulse, and you can get more than 70 plus hours of free social media training. So go to social media manager, school.com and check it out. We are joined today by the way, by one of my favorite people.

[00:01:19] She is so smart. I just, I always just get all the good stuff from Holly Homer. She’s going to be talking about what’s new in influencer marketing. And how to manage employee engagement. And we’re also going to be covering the latest updates to Facebook pages. Clubhouse. Have you heard about that and Twitter spaces, but if you don’t know who Holly is, she is a professional blogger running kids activities, blog.

[00:01:43] And the quirky momma Facebook page. She has used her blog and social media as a laboratory over the years and tests, all things, traffic in the algorithm. She’s also a best-selling author. Her three books have sold over a 250 215,000 copies. And she’s logged over 1000 hours on live video, doing everything from teaching blogging, selling clothes, crafting with crap, which is one of my favorite ones you have done.

[00:02:10] Yeah. And opening oysters on the internet. She’s got a podcast you guys need to check out. It’s the Jamie and Holly show, and you can find that@thejamieandhollyshow.com, that’s Jamie and Holly show.com. So make sure to check that out. Holly, welcome to the show. 

[00:02:27] Holly Homer: [00:02:27] Thank you. I’m so excited to be your first guest, 

[00:02:31] Jeff SIeh: [00:02:31] Kyle grace, Duffy, who is I miss so much, but she goes, Holly.

[00:02:34] Homer is the best. She had some fans my Abby alter also she’s another Dallas. Friend of yours and mine. Abby, thank you for joining today. And this is going to be a fun show. Eric is Mr. Podcast says great. Yes and a shout out to a group host. They are changed Ian’s life. Thank you guys for, that.

[00:02:59] So let’s jump right into the news. This first piece of news. It’s about, we’re talking about today about influencer marketing and some involving demographics, because things they are changing on social media. And there was this article from on medium that said Instagram is dead. It just doesn’t know it yet.

[00:03:20] And this was an interesting thing. Grace and I had a little bit of talking about it offline and she I agree. I don’t think Instagram is dead but the demographics. Are changing and sometimes in a good way, cause it’s getting a little bit harder for spammy and Florence to be scammy.

[00:03:37] But one of the things in that article, they said from the influencer’s perspective, their entire business model is under shields. Under siege brands would rather pay influencers to market their products on Instagram versus paying Instagram to market their products. So it’s an IGS best interest to ruin influencers.

[00:03:53] So I want to know Holly, what your thoughts are on this, because I know you do a lot of brand deals. You have a lot of sponsorships and that kind of thing. So is the return on investment like increasing or decreasing for your business on Instagram? 

[00:04:08] Holly Homer: [00:04:08] I gave up on Instagram probably about a year ago. Because I saw the writing on the wall.

[00:04:14] I have over 300,000 followers on Instagram that were, none of them were paid for. Like they were all organic followers and whatever I post over there. It’s pretty much dead on arrival. So it like the only reason that we’re still on Instagram that I still post over there is because a lot of my brand deals that are with my blog and my Facebook page include Instagram.

[00:04:42] But that’s the only reason I’m over there. It’s, bad. And I do feel like the, I feel like the influencers are under siege. I think that’s a really good point made by that article because. I feel like we’re fighting against the platform instead of we built that platform, like that content that we put out there built the flat platform, but then the platform has turned against us.

[00:05:09] Jeff SIeh: [00:05:09] Interesting. So Eric, I know you had some questions for Holly too, that you had. Yeah. 

[00:05:14] Erik Fisher: [00:05:14] My, you said you gave up on Instagram about a year ago. Do you think what was part of that decision-making process? Do you think that Instagram is losing, say that the public trust as being part of 

[00:05:28] Holly Homer: [00:05:28] Facebook?

[00:05:30] Yeah. So And this, the funny thing is like, I gave up on it about a year ago, so that am I giving up? I still pay someone to go and post over there on a daily basis, but I’m not in the middle of the strategy. We’re not like having a, we’re not rolling anything out new.

[00:05:50] Graham, you’re going to see the exact same thing that you saw a week ago from us. And so all our brain power has just been pulled back from the platform. And part of it is because it was no matter what we did, like it was diminishing returns. And so I just it wasn’t worth it and it wasn’t worth left fight, 

[00:06:13] Erik Fisher: [00:06:13] yeah. So you’re maintaining a presence though, even though 

[00:06:18] Jeff SIeh: [00:06:18] yeah. 

[00:06:20] Holly Homer: [00:06:20] Yeah, I’m, we’re just in maintenance mode. I think it’s what we did with Twitter, like 10 years ago we’re still there, but where it’s not anything like, we’re not actively trying to. Do anything better?

[00:06:35] Jeff SIeh: [00:06:35] So I guess my question is, and I think a lot of people are who may be watching this and there’s new people coming in to social media, especially with everything that’s going on with COVID. And there’s been this rush to get on social because sometimes that’s the only way people can get business.

[00:06:51] So do you think businesses would you advise them to start using Instagram for they haven’t started yet? Or would you like say maybe not what are your thoughts on a new business coming in Holly? Yeah. 

[00:07:02] Holly Homer: [00:07:02] So I think if your customers are squarely on Instagram and that’s where they are then and, I truly believe you can only build one thing at a time.

[00:07:13] And so if that’s where your customers are and that’s, and you like Instagram that’s, the other thing is don’t get involved in a social media platform. You don’t like, because you’re never going to conquer it and so like the, if that’s where that is, but if you’re like, yeah, I don’t know.

[00:07:31] I don’t, I can’t decide which one then I’d definitely go to the newest one because the newest one is always going to have the best algorithm for. Reach. and that’s like one of the things that like that article talked about was how there’s less and less users and there’s less and less reach.

[00:07:51] And that’s the bottom line is the users go where there’s reach. And because they follow things they want to actually see. And then when the algorithm start pulling that content back from them and you never see them again, then that’s when those, social networks just start like degrading. And so if I can I just tell Facebook and Instagram how to fix this?

[00:08:17] Sure. Let’s hear it. Okay. If someone signs up for a notification, let them have that notification. That’s what people are running around the internet, trying to find a way to like actually see what they signed up for. Do you not know why podcasts are exploding? It’s because when you sign up for a podcast, you actually get it delivered every single time at publishes.

[00:08:43] So if if Instagram wants to fix this, then if someone follows me, then they need to see what I post. 

[00:08:52] Jeff SIeh: [00:08:52] Yeah. Tell us how you really feel Holly, because I don’t know. So, Ian says he goes, eh, common story. The platforms turns against the people that built it. In fact in, this article there was a lot of things like it.

[00:09:07] It’s a mathematical impossibility with the way they have built their businesses is that it’s built on continuously getting new users and you’re going to run out of new users eventually. And so then what do you do? So anyway very, interesting. At grace goes, you tell them Holly, so you’ll get them.

[00:09:25] So anyway, it’s frustrating. Somebody, equated it to okay, I have built an email list. And then all of a sudden, I only get 30. If I built an email list of a hundred people, then I only get 30 of those. And I have to pay to send out to the rest of that email list, which is ridiculous, but we allow it on social.

[00:09:44] We 

[00:09:44] Holly Homer: [00:09:44] totally allow it. And this is something that like we did so much live video on Facebook and this was where this my, bitterness started is that we would like all these people wanted to see our live videos. So they had signed up for notifications and we talked, we taught people how to sign up for notifications and then Facebook started not sending out the notifications and then we taught them how to sign up for.

[00:10:11] The text notifications that we were paying for. And then we were sending out texts notifications to send people to Facebook live. And then I’m like, if we are like the ones notifying the people, then we could send them anywhere. And guess what we did, we sent them away from Facebook, but that’s, what I don’t understand.

[00:10:33] Facebook has no clue. That’s why that happened. 

[00:10:37] Jeff SIeh: [00:10:37] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:10:40] Erik Fisher: [00:10:40] In light of that, do you think that still brand ambassadors have an important part to play in business in this coming year in 2021? 

[00:10:52] Holly Homer: [00:10:52] I do, because Social media is all about connecting with other people. And especially, and I I feel like the year 2020, prove that just hands down we were just in search for connecting with other people.

[00:11:10] So as long as the, social media network is allowing those connections, it will be viable as soon as it starts. Decreasing the connection between people which we’re seeing on Instagram, which we’re seeing on Facebook when people are afraid to say something, when people are like, Or are not able, like for instance, I run kids activities blog.

[00:11:40] We don’t do anything controversial you with, and we don’t do anything political or religious or anything. Like we are like toast. We are internet toast. And yet I got marked for fake news this summer. And when you get marked for fake news, you get like all this stuff. And then USA today wrote this big rebuttal piece about like how I was wrong, by the way I was coding the CDC.

[00:12:08] So I don’t even understand what was going on there. Yeah. But the, truth is, when your eyes are opened to how we are being manipulated, then people start getting, nervous. And I think the Instagram the changes that they’re making that like Instagram can just turn on your camera.

[00:12:31] It’s basically in the terms of service, like people. Guess what people don’t like that people want to go on social media to connect with people, not to have everything recorded, not to be sold something, not to be an so I don’t even I feel like they’re going just full speed in the wrong direction right now.

[00:12:55] Jeff SIeh: [00:12:55] Yeah. Yeah. So Trevor says this, he goes, he completely agrees here. If a brand doesn’t have trust and they don’t, they won’t win the influencers, use those social media networks to build that trust. So one of the things, so you’ve been an ambassador for brands. You’ve done it a lot. I’ve seen it on your page and all over the place.

[00:13:16] Let’s flip it because we’re, we’ve gone really frustrated with all of this and we don’t want to give people a downer, but so how do you, what if you want to be an ambassador for brands? So how do you, what are they looking for in a good partnership? Like, why are people coming to you and other than just your, traffic, which is incredible, but what makes it good and brass ambassadors?

[00:13:37] What are they looking for a partnership. 

[00:13:40] Holly Homer: [00:13:40] Yeah. And I think this goes back to that connection and why social media is so important in our lives every day. Anyway, is a, like the, brand is looking for a good brand is looking in the bottom line is they’re looking for sales and one of the ways they can get those sales is by going creating a legitimate relationship with a a brand ambassador that has a legitimate relationship with their audience.

[00:14:08] And it’s, not unlike 20, 30, 40 years ago you would say, Oh, like you tell your neighbor about something and your neighbor would be like, of course, I’m going to buy that. Like Holly recommended it over the fence the other day. And that’s literally what we’re doing today in the fact that Hey, I really like this.

[00:14:30] And. Because you think about the internet, like this is very different than it was even like 10 years ago is 10 years ago you were searching for something. You were like, Oh my gosh, I need this. And you would go search for it. Now there’s a million of those. Whatever you’re searching for. There’s a million.

[00:14:47] And so what the, what an influencer can help do? What like a good blog post? What a good Instagram post, what a good Facebook post. What a good video can do is tell that person, Hey, I know there’s a million of these available out there, but this is the best one. Like I’ve tried several or this is why I like this one.

[00:15:07] So you’re actually cutting through the crap of the competition with, a good influencer. 

[00:15:13] Jeff SIeh: [00:15:13] So there’s a tweetable, right? They’re cutting through the crap by Holly. That’s how you succeed on social 

[00:15:18] Holly Homer: [00:15:18] media. It’s me, if I put the word crap in the cloud,

[00:15:26] Jeff SIeh: [00:15:26] you want, th you, I know you wrote a question too down here that you wanted to highlight and ask her. What was that one? Yeah. 

[00:15:32] Erik Fisher: [00:15:32] So my thought was that even if you’re in say maintenance mode on Instagram, or even if you want to answer this for Facebook since you’re more part of that strategy when you’re fighting against an algorithm, what are some of the tips or tricks to keeping engagement high?

[00:15:50] Holly Homer: [00:15:50] Yeah. So it’s the same, whether you’re building something, whether you’re trying to salvage what you have, what you’re trying to claw up, the declining algorithms, it’s all the same is it’s really a literal. We do this every day and this is what we do at less on Instagram, which is why I’m not in the middle of it.

[00:16:09] But every day we go in on Facebook and we look at what did well. And what didn’t do well and try to figure out why. And then that’s going to determine what goes on the page the next day. So if I was an active participant in Instagram today, that’s what we’d be doing is we’ll be like, Oh let’s look at the last week.

[00:16:29] Hey, this crafted way better. And as far as engagement than all these other crafts, let’s go find some other things that are like this and that’s how you build. And so if you have a video that does really well on Instagram, figure out, was it the title? Was it the length? Was it the time of day?

[00:16:49] Was it like, what was it about that did better than your last video? And then try to repeat rinse and repeat. So it’s literally a laboratory. You are a scientist in your social media laboratory, and every single piece of content you put out there is an experiment. And the cool thing about looking at your social media account as more of a laboratory is that.

[00:17:15] The failures give you as much, if not more data than the successes. And so it takes the emotion out of it for me cause you’re like crap, that was like the best thing I’ve ever done and it totally bombed. Yeah. But you’re like, but why like, why did it like, was it, did it was it the time of day?

[00:17:34] Did it. The keywords I use or something that algorithm doesn’t like w was I not friendly? Was I not smiling? Did my background look terrible? Like all these, data points that we bring in every single day can be really, important. 

[00:17:51] Jeff SIeh: [00:17:51] Yeah, we’ve got some great comments, Scott, just science.

[00:17:54] Cause he does a lot of stuff. He loves doing that. One of the things is Trevor asks you like, can you define what you mean by did well now because, and I think it’s going to what Holly does well for Holly is going to be different for me. Cause she’s got a way bigger. You know what I’m saying? I think did well.

[00:18:11] Is. Relative in, in what you’re looking for and what you’re trying to achieve. So can you talk to them a little bit about that? 

[00:18:15] Holly Homer: [00:18:15] What that means? This is actually one of my very favorite subjects to talk about. So we look at the page average. So Lake so what am I, Holly, Homer page on Facebook, for instance, I only have 4,000 fans on that.

[00:18:30] So my average posts does very differently than my quirky momma Facebook page that has 3.5 million fans on it. What I’m looking for is basically what does good, what does bad compared to average? And so when I play this little game like, I’ll schedule something or I’ll post something.

[00:18:52] And then in the back of my mind, I just guess what the reach will be. And I usually use the reach number, cause that’s the, that has all the math done for you already. And so when I come back to it like 24 hours, 48 hours later, If it didn’t hit my estimate Oh, I think that’s going to reach 200 people.

[00:19:13] If it doesn’t reach that, then I’m like, Hey, that’s weird. That’s what I expected it to do. That’s based on what I’ve done in the past. That’s what it should have done. Did it do better? Why did it do worse? Why? And. It’s probably the easiest way to go about it. So that way, when you’re in the middle of your data on a daily basis, and you’re playing this little guessing game, it gives you a really good feel for what things should be doing.

[00:19:41] And then when things go weird, that’s when you’re like, huh, I need to look into that a little bit further. 

[00:19:48] Jeff SIeh: [00:19:48] Cool. Yeah, that’s a great thing. Thanks for that question, Trevor. Cause that’s that Holly gave you some really gold nuggets right there. I want to bring up my comment from my friend Pat mills.

[00:19:57] And she goes, the company I worked for, we have built relationships with our customers and they promote our products for us just by sharing how their children are using it or loving it. It is our biggest platform where this is going on. I don’t have to ask them to do it. They just do it. That’s a great example.

[00:20:11] Thanks for sharing that, Pat. Scott asks, I will drop this in through the, can you tell them what, where they can find the quirky mama page? Because you mentioned that a couple times. 

[00:20:19] Holly Homer: [00:20:19] Yeah. So it’s spelled exactly like that and that’s on Facebook. 

[00:20:23] Jeff SIeh: [00:20:23] Okay. Very cool. So this next story I want to bring up is really interesting because it has to do with employee engagement, which want to talk about it a little bit, because I think it’s going to be more and more.

[00:20:32] Yeah. Important, especially if you have a business, even a small business that you may run into this. And this is a story from the financial times. And they had said that companies are starting to seek to capitalize employee influencers and they’re covering the risk and rewards of working with influencers.

[00:20:48] There’s a plus and Mar the pros and cons in this article, because this is what happened. I don’t know if you’ve been following the news is that this guy. From Sherwin-Williams, he’s a young college kid. He worked there part-time and he started doing these mixing paint and he was doing it during store hours, but he was going and actually purchasing it with his own money with this Blaine discount.

[00:21:10] And he he was, when nobody’s in the store, he was mixing this paint and. Did this stuff on Tik TOK? It blew up, went to millions of views. Everybody loved it. And he tried to go to the higher up and said, Hey, I want to help with your social, cause this would be great. And he got the cold shoulder don’t call us, we’ll call you kind of thing.

[00:21:28] And then eventually they fired him. Because they said he broke company policy because he was doing this. So this really has divided. If you read the comments underneath of this article, people are saying, yes, employees you have to, you can’t let them do that stuff. Cause beause company time and then other people are going like that was the dumbest thing you’ve ever done.

[00:21:46] Sherwin Williams, you should have hired him. And in fact, he actually got a job with Florida paint, which is a smaller one where he’s doing all this stuff now. So I would love Holly. For you to tell us what your, what’s your take on this. And you as well, who are listening right now, what do you think?

[00:22:03] Should, we have, should you like, they came down hard on this guy, I think. And so I just want to know what you guys’ thoughts are. 

[00:22:10] Holly Homer: [00:22:10] Yeah. So I have really mixed feelings about this because I see both sides because I’m I employ people and then I also am in a social media influencer, but I think, Oh first of all, I think Sherwin Williams.

[00:22:25] Manage this terribly

[00:22:30] and I really liked to paint. It’s and I think, that’s the biggest trap. That’s the biggest lesson to learn is what they should have done, I think is pull him into a different part of the company, because I do think it’s really hard. For like morale in a Sherwin Williams store. If one dude is like just doing tick-tock golf day and the rest of the people are working.

[00:22:58] So I do see that, but I also see the other side of this because for sure, my Williams let’s just go, away. In fact, the interview that this guy who’s now working for this other paint company, Florida paint even mentioned it. Let’s say he already has 1.2 million fans on Tik TOK.

[00:23:21] Let’s say Sherwin Williams brings them into the fold and says, Hey, let’s, you’re going to do social media for us, all that kind of stuff. And he just grows and grows and then at some point it’s a monster that has grown out of control. That Sherwin Williams will not control it. And that’s the problem is because he’s going to say, Oh, I could work for sure.

[00:23:43] When Williams for $15 an hour, or it could be an influencer on Tik TOK and make thousands and thousands of dollars. So this. And then basically Sherwin-Williams handed him that platform to a certain extent. So that’s where this can go really, awry. And in the, I thought it was really interesting in the interview recently with this guy, he was like, Oh yeah, someday I might like, start my own paint paint combinations.

[00:24:12] He’s working for Florida paint. And he just meant on tick-tock that we’re in the interview with this business magazine that he’s, going to be an influencer and he might make his own paint. So this is where this, like growth of like influencer thing can get out of control. And it can be out of control for that, So talk about the Walmart one. Cause I think that’s really interesting too, 

[00:24:40] Jeff SIeh: [00:24:40] right? The one I was thinking about was Amazon. Go ahead. So talk about the Walmart one, cause I’m not sure I know exactly what you’re talking about. 

[00:24:46] Holly Homer: [00:24:46] So like the Walmart is now like letting 500 of their employees just go crazy on social media.

[00:24:54] And I just think that’s a really bad idea. 

[00:25:00] Jeff SIeh: [00:25:00] They have trouble checking me out anyway.

[00:25:05] Holly Homer: [00:25:05] I just like, how can you like this? Okay. Part of the reason why social media works is because the person can just talk, like they can, like it’s, they’re not being controlled. And then if you’re throw in Walmart legal and all that kind of stuff. So this is something that influencers like figure out really quickly.

[00:25:26] So let’s say, and this is part of the problem with the direction that influencer marketing is going. So I have a big. Client and they come to me and they say, we need three Instagram posts. And so I am the we talk about it and I pitch some ideas, they come back and they’re like, yeah, we like this idea out of those.

[00:25:46] And, so I make those ideas and then I send them to their legal team. So six weeks later, I get these like these social media posts that were very timely six weeks ago with legal changes and, Oh, we need you to reshoot this because we want that different Blah-blah-blah not organic anymore.

[00:26:12] And so that’s what I don’t think these companies are understanding if you control the narrative of these employees, which you have to do legally basically, then it’s not organic. 

[00:26:26] Jeff SIeh: [00:26:26] Yeah. And I, worked for him. Walmart back in the day, I just see a whole bunch of nightmare scenarios there. I pulled pallets that late at night.

[00:26:33] That’s not, you don’t want influencers there at all? No. Eric, what are your thoughts on this? Cause I wanna know what you think. 

[00:26:40] Erik Fisher: [00:26:40] For me it comes down to the relationship between the person here. Okay. Here’s the thing we were talking about, influencers on this, episode, and my thought here is.

[00:26:50] That a lot of people out there have this idea of, okay, anybody can just get started, become an influencer and you’re going to blow up. And I think the possibility of that is true, but the potential or the, actuality of that is not so true. You have to actually create great content, do great things with your platform, et cetera, while it’s still easy to democratize.

[00:27:11] And all of that said when there is some sort of rising star awareness, It is very important for the people that are the employee status, or sorry, employer status to say, Hey, while you’re with us, let’s capitalize this. Keep you happy without bending over backwards. Tap into your creativity.

[00:27:35] Let’s show you. We appreciate you. Let’s do the right thing by you that if you choose to go elsewhere, at least you’re not going to slam us afterwards. That’s from the part of the employer from the employee standpoint, he did go about it the right way, approaching them, saying, I want to do something different.

[00:27:52] I want to do something. More engaging and, et cetera, can I keep doing this? Can you make make a position for me or whatever? I don’t not being internal, not being this guy. I almost wonder did he ask enough times and get an, get enough nose to then just boot and walk away?

[00:28:14] But before it blew up publicly, but again, it was almost to his benefit that it blew up publicly because it drew even more attention to it. So I have missed, I 

[00:28:22] Jeff SIeh: [00:28:22] have mixed feelings as well. The funny thing is it’s like his, immediate supervisors loved it. They thought it was great. They tried to get him in front of corporate and that just didn’t work.

[00:28:33] And what are your thoughts, Holly, about should, businesses try to ride the co cause if they’re going to be an influence there, they’re probably not going to stick around forever because they can make more money. Like you said, doing it something somewhere else doing it on there by themselves.

[00:28:48] Do you think that companies should try to ride the coattails? Just make some really clear legal language, what you can and can’t do for the amount of time. And then we know he’s going to eventually going to be gazillionaire and whatever, but we’re going to ride this as long as we can. 

[00:29:01] Holly Homer: [00:29:01] Yeah. And I don’t know what where the lines are drawn or obviously I’m not a lawyer, but it seems to me that there could be some sort of influencer contract, like they could have brought Sherwin-Williams could have brought him in.

[00:29:17] I think that’s what I’ve been. I’m a lot better idea. Brought him in and say, Hey we would like to sponsor your tech talk channel for the next two years or whatever. And in exchange for that, this you are now going to be working, doing this I would pull I just see a big issue with him being like Mr.

[00:29:42] Paint, mixer guy, I’m at the store making the same amount of money as. Mr or paint, Mixter a guy standing beside him, but yet he’s like the influencer on tech I just I, just don’t think that a lot of good can come from that. So I th I think he needs to be pulled out of that position, put in a new position that includes social media with clear cut like delineation and the, and quite on-site the compensation that he deserves, because It’s not I have a friend that has million fans on Tik TOK, but that doesn’t come out of nowhere.

[00:30:26] Jeff SIeh: [00:30:26] There’s some creative stuff that happens 

[00:30:27] Holly Homer: [00:30:27] there. Yeah. That’s, a, mind that, that deserves a little bit more compensation than paint mixing at Sherwin Williams. 

[00:30:36] Jeff SIeh: [00:30:36] So here’s some great comments. One’s from grace. And she goes, he was mixing things like fruit with the paint on Tik TOK.

[00:30:41] It was really cool to watch, but corporate grace thinks that he could use more immediate training and guidance. So that’s a good point. And then Pat says I feel that when it’s employee is doing it, you don’t have the control, just like what Holly was saying, but you need it when you pay someone to do nothing, but promote you, you control the whole thing because that is what you’re paying for.

[00:30:59] That’s how she handles it with her job. So that’s very, cool. Yeah, graceful. It says mixed paint, mixed feelings. So there you go. By the way, before we go into our next thing, I want to let you guys know that the when I press the right buttons, I’m using a really cool software called E cam.

[00:31:17] They are helping with the show as well. If you I love their camera. They’re the, coolest bunch of people. It’s really awesome to be able to bring in multiple people and have this kind of conversation. So if you’re interested in doing something like this, if you like this, make sure you go to E cam.com and check them out by the way, Eric, I’m really excited about this next one.

[00:31:38] Cause we have been. Talking about this back and forth. And I talked to Holly about before the show because she was on it as well. So I want you to talk about, and and break it down for us this Twitter clubhouse thing that may be coming out and your thoughts on that. So take it away.

[00:31:55] Erik Fisher: [00:31:55] Yeah. I’ll stick with the news first, which is that Twitter spaces is a thing. Now it’s in beta. So most people don’t have access to it though. We would like to and, or have signed up for it. What it is essentially Twitter’s version of clubhouse. And if you’re not familiar with what clubhouse is, an A it’s all the rage and all the marketers are talking about it.

[00:32:21] Including us, but it is expiring. Communal audio audience live audio chat rooms that once you’re, once it’s off, it’s done, it’s gone now. I won’t, necessarily go into my opinion on clubhouse just yet, but Twitter, the news this week was that they didn’t buy the app, but bought the team that worked on and ran the app breaker podcasting app breaker.

[00:32:48] This is a great sign. For Twitter. And in terms of Twitter spaces, this is a great sign as well, because it means they’re bringing in actual audio and dev team people to work on this project and this product and with the backing behind them of Twitter, this is going to be. Pretty interesting. It’s I feel like I’m seeing the mere cat Periscope thing happened all over again.

[00:33:12] In other words, if you remember, this was years ago where mere cat existed and it was the little fun, little thing people are talking about it, then suddenly Periscope shows up Mira cat matter of months is gone. And so it’s 

[00:33:24] Holly Homer: [00:33:24] interesting when I ask you this because because Periscope which has been.

[00:33:30] Viable on Twitter is phasing out, like in the next month or two is what’s taking its place. It seems really weird that they would face something out before they have something to replace it with. 

[00:33:41] Erik Fisher: [00:33:41] It, so what’s happening with Periscope is that it itself is going away, but Twitter live video is not.

[00:33:48] So explain that to me. I could keep my in other words, Periscope in and of itself is going away, but live video onto it. It’s as if, imagine that Facebook, when it came out with its live video, named it something else, and it was this whole other app. That’s what’s going away. Video will still be live on Facebook in this metaphor, but now just more cleanly integrated into the brand, which is going to remain to be seen as to API APIs and all that kind of stuff.

[00:34:16] That’s still going to be worked out. 

[00:34:18] Jeff SIeh: [00:34:18] So, just before we. Go into, I know Holly, like she’s got some thoughts by the way. Okay. Just because you like, you are a scientist and I love hearing your thoughts. The thing that in tech crunches, where a lot of this news came from is one of the things in clubhouse has had some issue with this as well. With some things getting out of control in the room, some hate speech and some stuff like this.

[00:34:45] And one of the quotes they put in this article, it said but it remains to be seen if Twitter, a service that has publicly struggled with online toxicity, and moderation failures will be able to make audio networking, a safe place for users to chat, or it will amplify. Twitter’s existing challenges in these areas.

[00:35:03] So clubhouse has already had some issues with this. Twitter is way bigger, has way more eyeballs on it. Is this going to be even more of a challenge? Are they going to open up a huge can of worms with this remains to be seen? But yeah, Holly, I want to know what your initial, because I saw you in there and I saw you on there with somebody who is really, on fire for it in a room.

[00:35:22] And so I want to know what your thoughts are on clubhouse. 

[00:35:26] Holly Homer: [00:35:26] Yeah. So for those of you, who’ve never been on clubhouse basically. It’s audio chat rooms. So it’s like a podcast at first in a lot of situations, but then people can pop on and ask questions and you can have panelists and stuff like that.

[00:35:43] So I love. Love love, this idea. I think it’s a really, great idea. I think in the real world today, it’s really, hard to execute and and the whole vanishing, I like that in the fact that it makes people show up. But on the other hand, my life is just too busy to be on clubhouse all day.

[00:36:13] Cause you’re like, literally it’s one of those networks that’s completely. Hinge on FOMO and what I found like after, cause I was, I spent probably a whole afternoon on it is like at first I was like, Oh my gosh, this is the best thing I’ve ever been on. This is incredible.

[00:36:34] And then. A couple hours in, it became like a complete echo chamber. And I think part of that is because of the moderation problems any of these networks are going to have. And we see Facebook struggling with this. We see Twitter struggling with this and YouTube, all these places are very poorly handling this right now.

[00:36:57] And instead of making it safer, they’re making it crazy. And I think that’s another thing before I spent a lot of time on clubhouse, I would want to make sure that it wasn’t something I was going to build up and then it would be just ripped out from under me, because I don’t agree with the person that runs the network.

[00:37:16] Yeah. 

[00:37:17] Jeff SIeh: [00:37:17] And did the same problems. If this comes out on Twitter, you’re going to see the same thing as what? Yeah. Eric, I want you to tell us your thoughts on it too. And you and I did went in there together with Ian Anderson gray. We had a room that was what was a lot of fun.

[00:37:31] We had some great conversation, but, and then ask your question of Holly as well. So what are your thoughts? 

[00:37:36] Erik Fisher: [00:37:36] Yeah. So my thoughts are I, see the benefit. I see the potential. I see the this being something different than sitting on zoom calls or having to watch live video. For that matter, a lot of people when live video is playing they’ll queue into it and then leave it playing in the background to listen to it.

[00:37:55] While they are doing other things. We are all so busy that paying full attention to something that’s visual is hard to do, but if we can rip the audio component out of it and just pay attention to that, like probably some people are doing with this right now they’re doing other things and they’re busy.

[00:38:11] I’m not suggesting you should do that. Watch it. But video requires extra attention. But there’s still the audio component to that video. This however is audio only. So you can sit there, listen, and then still, maybe look at something else or delete emails or things like that. But it’s also less I don’t know.

[00:38:33] I think the thing, for me, the biggest thing for me, that’s a shame is some of the discovery stuff is, whatever. And I know people are like you gotta follow the right people. And I hear that all the time. Yes, I get it. But even so algorithms. So that’s, the word I will say.

[00:38:50] But the other piece is, yeah, you and I Jeff and I, and Ian Anderson, gray, like I jumped in on your call the other day. And that was the first time I’d had a meaningful kind of something happened on there and I really appreciated it and I liked it, but no one can go see that, hear that. No one can go listen back to that.

[00:39:08] You had to be there or now it’s as if it didn’t happen. And that’s a shame. And I think that’s one of the downsides to it. But my question is then what is the ROI right now for this, when it comes to spending our time on this and or for our business. So Holly I’d love for you to you, like it.

[00:39:31] What do you thinks the ROI here? 

[00:39:33] Holly Homer: [00:39:33] Yeah. So I actually think first of all, it’s a new social network and it seems to be catching some traction in a lot of areas. So if your customers are there, this is absolutely. If you haven’t built anything anywhere, this is where I jump on, because I feel like this, you could grow the fastest.

[00:39:54] On this absolutely new kind of pristine platform that hasn’t had a lot of rules and algorithm good or bad happened to it. So that, but I do think. And this is where I have a problem with it. And, I think where not having an algorithm is a problem, which is funny because we were just complaining about alcoholism.

[00:40:20] There’s things that are good and bad about them. But the thing is, I don’t have a clear grasp on who is on clubhouse. Like I can see who pops in there occasionally from my friend list, but those don’t seem to be like the, daily users. And so that’s where it’s really hard to say, am I attracting somebody that would actually be.

[00:40:42] I think if you’re in the coaching space or the make money space or something like that, I would run the clubhouse right now.

[00:40:51] Yes. They’re all there. And they’re all teaching you how to make money on the internet, which is where, one of the reasons why I stepped back and say, what is a value of an echo chamber of a bunch of spam? 

[00:41:06] Jeff SIeh: [00:41:06] Whew, boy, that’s another tweetable right there. Yeah. Go ahead. I want to say this 

[00:41:10] Erik Fisher: [00:41:10] real quick, what you just said does harken back to what you said earlier about if you’re just getting started, jumping in on the newest thing is going to be because there’s less of an algorithm and you could really like make a carve out deep and wide, a quick niche for yourself.

[00:41:27] So that really does make sense. 

[00:41:29] Holly Homer: [00:41:29] Yeah. And like it’s not all bad like I know I just said really ugly things about it, but it’s not all bad because I truly believe I have a podcast myself. I truly believe live video and, speech. That is so much easier to connect with someone else through your voice and your, image and your voice than anything else on the internet.

[00:41:53] So if, because people can hear even though I just had a bunch of if you just Just read the words that I just said you would have, you wouldn’t feel the heart that I’m like, Hey, no, like I’m saying these things, but I really am conflicted about it. I’m the, you, when you hear it with the voice, when you see it with video, like you can do on clubhouse. Like you can do on live video. You’re going to get more of the picture. You’re going to get more of the context of whatever the conversation is. And I think that’s really, important for connecting true connections with other people. I think it’s one of the reasons why all these video products have been launched on Instagram.

[00:42:34] Like w why people, because there is a connection that people can have through that. So if you can, and then the truth is. Wherever you start making these connections. If they’re true connections, they can be moved somewhere else. And these networks don’t want you to know that, but it’s absolutely true.

[00:42:53] So today, if you build a massive like connection base on clubhouse and it gets. Like it goes away like Google PLAs did, and we all met on Google class. We’ll find each other somewhere else. And so that’s where if you’re just getting started, you just need to start connecting. You just need to find your people and, find that group because no matter where that is, You’re going to be able to move them somewhere else someday.

[00:43:22] Jeff SIeh: [00:43:22] So we have some great comments. So I want to pull up some of this. So Scott thinks clubhouse is a zoom call without having to put a shirt on. So I thought that 

[00:43:32] Holly Homer: [00:43:32] was a good one. Scott. I feel like a lot of people aren’t wearing clothes. 

[00:43:37] Jeff SIeh: [00:43:37] They were in the bath. They were giving. That’s a big thing now we’re in the shower.

[00:43:40] Too much information, but Abby says it is a major time suck. Yes it is. And Kim, thanks for tuning in. She goes a good point folly. So I was in, this is, I’m just going to go off a little, not off, but just to talk about a little bit about this. So Kim invited me into a group, a room last night and I was in there and it took longer than I thought it was with Molly Mahoney and stuff, something, but I got to hang out with one of the stars from 24 and he’s in all these other movies.

[00:44:03] And like I took a screenshot cause I was right by his face in my, the app and I thought that’s cool. I don’t think it’s a social network. I think it’s going to be a networking tool. In fact here this let’s see, Jill said, I think clubhouse is teaming up with LinkedIn could be a powerful in terms of the networking and professional development.

[00:44:20] I agree. And I think it’s partnered with a conference app where you could talk with that after and have hallway conversations virtually. If like after a live show, like I thought about after this show Hey, we’re gonna go into clubhouse. We’re going to talk for a little bit, like an add on thing.

[00:44:37] I think it’s what we need right now, because we can’t go out. We’re stuck in our house with our kids, duct tape to the seats. But I just don’t know the longterm, but back to Holly’s point, all of the people that I built my business on, I met on Google plus and that went away. And just her thing about saying Move it to another thing.

[00:44:55] So networking, if you can network on there and it’s your jam and it’s not a time suck do it. I think it’s it. It’s, what you make of it. I just don’t know long-term what the ROI or ROI is going to be. The last question about this one. I want to ask you guys is, and there’s even been rooms about this on clubhouse will clubhouse or even Twitter spaces.

[00:45:13] Will it kill podcasting? Holly, what are your thoughts on that? 

[00:45:17] Holly Homer: [00:45:17] Never in a million years. And the reason for that is because when I download a podcast I can take it with me. I can, start and stop it. It, and. And I it’s my direct line to that, podcast. And I was thinking about this the other day because like I am a one of the reasons why I love podcasts is because that content comes to the content that I chose comes to me.

[00:45:48] And then I get to do it on my time. So it makes it really, convenient if you’re busy or if you’re you’re washing the clothes or whatever is that you can pop in a podcast. And one of the, one of the things that has been. The kind of a hard thing for me and why I think this disappearing thing does not work long-term for quality content.

[00:46:11] And what Eric was saying is that I’m a huge fan of Joe Rogan, but when he went to Spotify only, I’ve only really listened to one or two of those podcasts because they’re not being delivered to me in the way that I’m used to getting. That content. And I think that’s what the problem with this vanishing content, when you have to, like, when I have to schedule my day around content that, I might be able to find somewhere else, a similar type of content that could be on my terms.

[00:46:44] I think that’s different. And I do, I completely agree with it. I don’t think as a social network, I do think it’s a networking thing. And I think as an add on, or as a show, as a networking event, that’s where the power is, but saying, Oh, it’s going to eliminate podcasts, I think is actually ridiculous.

[00:47:03] I think it actually strengthens podcasts. 

[00:47:06] Jeff SIeh: [00:47:06] That’s a good point. Eric would have, I know you have a little podcast. Talking about that a little bit. 

[00:47:11] Erik Fisher: [00:47:11] I think, what this does do is it makes con just talking about community. I think what this does do is it brings conversation and actual networking and interaction into a digital tool, but it’s never going to kill podcasts Aren’t going to go away. Like you said Holly, My thing that I’ve chosen on my time where I wanted it’s, what I want, where I want it when I want it. And that is podcasting to a T that’s also Netflix and Hulu and Disney plus, and all those other things that have come along. Yeah.

[00:47:47] This is almost the equivalency of the old school TV model, where if you missed it, when it was on at 8:00 PM Tuesday night, we don’t get to see it again until it’s reruns. And that even, that’s not an option here. So this isn’t going to, 

[00:48:04] Jeff SIeh: [00:48:04] so what happened back in the day, we used to only get a C channels.

[00:48:07] Like Nightrider if you missed it, it was gone and your friends would ruin it for you at the playground. And so now it’s hard to understand, but that’s what happened. Now, 

[00:48:17] Erik Fisher: [00:48:17] here’s the thing that is a, an upside that is a feature and a there’s a pro and a con at the same time. So the FOMO does work in its favor.

[00:48:26] Yeah. But it also works against it. So there you go. But yeah, this isn’t going to kill podcasting whatsoever. Okay. Yeah. 

[00:48:33] Holly Homer: [00:48:33] And I do think I. I spent that day on clubhouse and then it made me super homesick for just like hanging out with you guys, like at a conference or something like that. And so I do think like right now it’s really hot because it’s replacing what we’re all yearning to do.

[00:48:52] But the minute you let me out of my house and let us go sit down and have a drink at a bar, like I’m there. And that I’m not on clubhouse ever again. 

[00:49:02] Jeff SIeh: [00:49:02] I think that’s an, that’s a very valid point. And so I think the only way I think you can survive is to say, if it’s an add on we’ve talked about if it’s an add on where it’s like, people can’t like at a conference, like we use conference apps, like when we go to the social media marketing world to hookup go and get lunches and all that kind of stuff.

[00:49:17] And being able to do that audio, get everybody in a room with Hey, let’s all go and do this. That would be fun. All right. So we’re running out of time, but this has been, you guys are awesome. Yeah. So grace goes, can we DVR clubhouse or does it only take VHS? The funny thing is grace is I did hook up for like I was on with Kim last night.

[00:49:36] I hooked up my And I know it’s probably totally illegal, but I recorded it from my my soundboard. So I have a copy of it so I can listen again. Cause I like to break the rules. But this speaking of breaking the rules, we’ve got a face to this last piece of Facebook news. Facebook has done a page redesign.

[00:49:51] If you haven’t heard Facebook pages are being redesigned. They announced yesterday a significant change to the Facebook page experience for creators. And public figures. So it’s got a new look and feel updated navigation, the introduction of a dedicated newsfeed, which is weird, a new text-based Q and a format for engaging fans page management tools.

[00:50:11] But the big news is that it looks like they’re going to do away with the like button. To focus on followers instead. So they said it’s going to be a more direct measurement of how many people are pages currently reaching. And so I wanted to know because somebody here has an incredibly active and engaging Facebook page.

[00:50:31] Do you want, do you have access to those pages and what are your thoughts at 

[00:50:34] Holly Homer: [00:50:34] that? Holly? Yeah, actually, I haven’t seen it other than on the, articles that I’ve read. So I don’t have it personally yet. I, it has been super weird to have likes and followers like those two numbers. I don’t, I never even understood why those were there.

[00:50:56] Because in my, I agree with them, if you. For liked my page and then unfollowed it, then I shouldn’t get credit for you. But on quirky mama, those numbers have always been really, similar. So I don’t think it will change anything for us, but like what like, that never sees any of your content is, worthless to you.

[00:51:20] So, I think that’s all going in the right direction. I like the idea of them giving it looks like you’re going to be able to put more of a Q and a. Type situation a little bit easier on the page. That’s something that we built quirky mama on back before the algorithm hated it is that we used to do, we used to take reader like reader questions like, a dear Abby type thing.

[00:51:44] And then and then we’d have hundreds and hundreds of people give their answers. Their opinions on it and advice. It was something that I love to do, but then one day the algorithm just decided it didn’t like it anymore. So we had to stop doing it. So I liked that direction because it is a community direction of people helping other people.

[00:52:05] I do. And I guess that’s what they’re trying to do with the influencers having their own. Feed and that you can go and interact with other pages. I think that’s going to be a huge fail. Like a huge fail anyone’s going to use that, but I just think, I don’t think like, you, I don’t know, you’re on Facebook as a person and, then a page is there to be a community builder for people.

[00:52:40] A page is not a person like, and I think that’s one of the reasons why the strategy on Facebook building a page and the strategy on Instagram building a page is a little bit different on Instagram. It’s basically that personality. And I think that’s one of the reasons why we had better success on.

[00:53:00] On Facebook with that same content, even though we like modified it for the other platform is that it’s never been about Holly Homer. That’s not, what the quirky mama page is about. It’s about, Hey, everybody is in our community. I think we’ll all like this. Whereas on Instagram more, it’s more of Hey, this is what I had for breakfast this morning.

[00:53:25] And it’s that’s just not me. I, that, that seems like, why would you ever want to know that? 

[00:53:33] Jeff SIeh: [00:53:33] What did you have for breakfast this morning, Holly? Oatmeal.

[00:53:42] So, as we wrap up, so Eric, I know you want to ask this next question about, I know you wrote it in there about community. Yeah. 

[00:53:52] Erik Fisher: [00:53:52] So my question is, are these changes too little too late when it comes to building community? How is the right way to grow your followers organically at this point?

[00:54:04] Holly Homer: [00:54:04] Yeah. So I do think I, there’s a sense of desperation that all these algorithms are having. And I think Facebook is not immune to that. The funny, the other funny thing that you think about Facebook is every time they roll out new things, you have to remember the average Facebook user is old. Like these are not teenagers who are just gonna pick up this new trend, like without even thinking about it.

[00:54:36] These are your parents. These are people who don’t do social media for a living that are on Facebook every day. And so every time Facebook rolls out something new and like some new layout and some new features it’s. It’s absolutely ridiculous. It’s giving your grandma an iPhone. And and so I, do think to a certain extent why they can’t just figure out how to use like, use what they already have in a way that reaches more people, that more people that want to see it.

[00:55:14] And I think. They’re putting lipstick on a pig to a certain extent where instead of just going back and saying, Hey, what made us really successful? Why are people here? Let’s do more of that instead of trying to trick us into, like, why can’t we just have a conversation in a Facebook post?

[00:55:39] Like why do we have to come up with a new way to have a conversation on Facebook? I 

[00:55:44] Jeff SIeh: [00:55:44] don’t know. So once again, we’ve got some great imagery here. We’ve got grandma with fighting on an iPhone, but anyway, so Holly speaks from experience because if you have not checked out her page, you need to guys, you need to go check that out because she does.

[00:56:00] I know the frustration is real for a lot of us. But if you want to Holly, I want to let you have the, we got a little bit time left. I want you to let people know where they can find out more about you because you are very good on the socials and you do have a lot of wisdom to share with people. So where can people find out more about you?

[00:56:19] Holly Homer: [00:56:19] Yeah, I guess I should also say that I really do love social media. I’m a bitterness rant today, but but yeah I teach social media@hollyhomer.com and I have if you happen to have a website or create content on a regular basis, I have a really fun little coaching group called blog freedom.

[00:56:42] And you can find that at blog, freedom.org, but we just like. We are so blessed to be in this time period where we can do what we love to do online. And even though there is some angst, it’s such a blessing, I’ve just always feel amazed that I got to grow up and live in this timeframe where we’re able to do these things from home.

[00:57:09] Jeff SIeh: [00:57:09] Yeah. And don’t forget, she has a very cool podcast. You can go check out@jamieandhollyshow.com. Make sure you do that. But before we wrap things up, I wanted to tell you guys about a new tool that I have been playing with. That a lot of my social media friends are talking about that I just started using and it’s called lead closer, closer.

[00:57:26] And it’s L E a D. K L O Z E R. And it’s a friend of mine who is putting together. It’s amazing. It’s a growth tool for entrepreneurs that if you’re missing leads on Facebook, cause we talked about missing things at the algorithm. And if you could wish you way you could track people by engagements you get these individual leads.

[00:57:46] It’s really, cool. And I’m really excited to see how I can use it for live video. So stay tuned about that. But my friend, Steve McDonald is starting a challenge on Monday, January 18th. Did you need to check out? He’s got a special page. He put for me, if you go to social media news, live.com forward slash lead closer.

[00:58:03] And that’s L E a D K L O Z E R. Go check that out because I think you’ll like it, especially if you’ve been struggling with missing people on Facebook, I think you’ll really like this one. So make sure you guys check that out. And that is our show. Thank you guys so much, Eric. Before we let you go, I want you to let you tell people all about your podcast and your show and everything you got going.

[00:58:24] Erik Fisher: [00:58:24] Yeah, check it out. I had a couple of great episodes to kick off the new year recently, which you can with John Jantz, we talked about resilience, which is obviously we all need right now. So make sure to check that out, go over to beyond the to-do list.com and then also make sure to go over and check out the social media manager school to get at least plus, there’s going to be more by the time I say this and people hear it, but over 70 plus hours of social media training.

[00:58:51] From seminars and webinars like you yourself, Jeff you’re in there. So go check that out or share that with somebody needs to hear it. 

[00:59:00] Jeff SIeh: [00:59:00] Very cool. And as always, you guys can go to social media news, alive.com, sign up for our email list, where you can find out all this stuff that we’re going to be sharing.

[00:59:10] This new live shows some tools, all that kind of school stuff. Social media at news, live.com. Very simple site. Just enter your email. Okay. A name and you’ll be able to do that and make sure that you tune in next week as we get ready to do, I’m clicking all sorts of wrong buttons right now, but as we get ready for another great podcast and live show with another special guest, thank you guys so much.

[00:59:31] I want appreciate, I want to say shout out to Scott and grace and Pat and Kim and all our friends who showed up today, you guys are awesome and we will see you next time. Bye now.