SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to Creator News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the creator economy and so much more.

[00:00:10] Jeff Sieh: Have you guys ever struggled to keep your podcast consistent week after week? Maybe you’ve wondered how some creators managed to stay organized, sound professional, and actually enjoy the process, or maybe you felt the pressure of editing, publishing and promoting while trying to keep your sanity intact.

[00:00:27] Jeff Sieh: If that sounds familiar, you’re gonna love this episode. ’cause today we’re joined by Darrell Darnell, the founder of Pro Podcast Solutions, and a seasoned producer who’s helped hundreds of podcasters simplify their workflow and create shows that last Darrell’s gonna share the strategy, systems and mindset shifts that make podcasting sustainable without burning out.

[00:00:48] Jeff Sieh: So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Creator News Live. Darryl, how you doing today, my friend?

[00:00:55] Darrell Darnell: I am doing so good. It is such an honor to be chatting with you and, uh, looking forward to it.

[00:00:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:01:00] Yeah. So as always, we have been doing this for the past couple months now we’ve got a, a special intro for Darrell. So I’m gonna go ahead and hit go and here we go. So there you go, Darrell, your very own same song.

[00:01:11] Darrell Darnell: I need to get that so I can use that as my bumper when I take the stage at a podcast.

[00:01:15] Jeff Sieh: Sure, sure. It’s a lot of fun. I tell you folks, AI continues to get, amazingly better. We’ve got some, of our friends already showing up today. We’ve got Dustin, of course, here. Uh, Megan Powers good to see you. she’s really struggling with getting shows, uh, recorded lately, so this is going to be a great show for Megan.

[00:01:33] Jeff Sieh: Megan, thank you for, for stopping in. and, tater from, but mostly Disney is saying, what’s up guys? Thank you guys for showing up today. Well, we’re gonna go ahead and just jump right in and we’re gonna talk about. Darrell has kind of some cool things that he does. if you don’t know, we, we kinda mentioned before, but he is the founder of Pro Podcast Solutions, a leading podcast production company he launched in 2013.

[00:01:57] Jeff Sieh: So we’re gonna be talking about all his experience, how he’s helped [00:02:00] these podcasters throughout the years because he’s got some systems and, and some things. And I wanna make sure, Darrell, that we give time to let people know about your download, that you sent me, which is the kind of the freebie that you have, which is amazing.

[00:02:12] Jeff Sieh: Like it has, it is so good on helping you plan out a podcast. And there’s two things. You even have a a Google spreadsheet, so we’ll make sure to list that down in the show notes and we’ll mention that, towards the end of the show. But Darrell, you, have kind of an interesting background. you’ve built podcasts around like the Fringe Stranger Things and the Twilight Zone, which I think is so stinking cool.

[00:02:33] Jeff Sieh: So what drew you to make these fan or like media-based podcasts in the first place?

[00:02:38] Darrell Darnell: Well, those were how I got into podcasting. So I was a huge fan of the TV show. Lost that, uh, was on ABC, and was on message boards and chat rooms, interacting with other fans of the show. I had some friends at work and we were all water cooling about the show, trying to figure out what in the world was going on.

[00:02:57] Darrell Darnell: And in one of those message boards, somebody [00:03:00] mentioned that there were podcasts about the show where people would do the same thing for an hour, just water cooler About

[00:03:05] Darrell Darnell: the show. So I was like, I dunno what a podcast is. So I went to iTunes and I found some podcasts about Lost and Lost. Also kind of turned me on to JJ Abrams.

[00:03:13] Darrell Darnell: I really wasn’t familiar with his work prior to Lost. And when it was announced that his next project would be a show called Fringe, and it was premiering in the fall of 2008. Some of my coworkers were like. Let’s do a podcast about that. And I just thought that was a great idea. It wasn’t even my idea.

[00:03:29] Darrell Darnell: It was, I think Jason, my, one of my coworkers. It was his original idea and Jason and Courtney, and I just thought it was a, a great idea. So the three of us started, we, and we were listening to other podcasts about, uh, they were really into world of Warcrafts and so they were listening to some of those podcasts and, and so we kind of drew inspiration from all of our favorite podcasts on how we would structure it, what segments we would have, and, and so we launched that podcast in the, in the fall of 2008.

[00:03:52] Darrell Darnell: And that really ignited this passion for, you know, TV sci-fi nerdy podcast. That water cooler piece [00:04:00] of it is really, really fun, the theorizing and, you know, getting stuff wrong and getting laughed at and all the things that come along with being a, a TV podcaster. So, but that’s how I got the start, was really just nerding out about lost and then following that, what seemed like the natural evolution from there.

[00:04:14] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. I wanna ask the audience who’s, who’s listening or watching, like, what is the first podcast that ever really got you hooked? Like it’s maybe the one that made you think, you know, I wanna start my own. So I want you to drop it in the comments wherever you’re watching from. you know, you mentioned Lost, I think, you know, Cliff Ravenscraft, that was first, like, I remember thinking of a TV show based podcast that I remember.

[00:04:35] Jeff Sieh: but Fringe has been, gosh, that that has been, is it, it’s still going on. Like how many years have you been doing the Fringe podcast now,

[00:04:42] Darrell Darnell: Well, we did the original run of the Fringe Podcast from 2008 until 2013. The show wrapped in January of 2013, And then we just kept doing other podcasts throughout the years. And fans of the other show and fans of the podcast would hit us up pretty regularly. Hey, you ever thought about doing a rewatch podcast?

[00:04:58] Darrell Darnell: And you know, I knew that the [00:05:00] day would come when it was felt right to do a rewatch podcast, but you also have to give the show some, some time to have ended before a rewatch really feels like it’s, it’s appropriate. And so I don’t remember what year it was. Uh, we said let’s do it.

[00:05:15] Darrell Darnell: And it was a different co-host that my, I reached out to my original co-host and he was like. I’ll join you for an episode, but my podcasting days are done. And so he did, he joined us for a single episode and had a great time with him, but one of our, listeners from the original show is my co-host for it.

[00:05:31] Darrell Darnell: And so we’re just about ready to wrap up Season four, we’re almost done with the rewatch. And, and that’ll probably it for Fringe. I feel like twice is probably enough to cover the show in, in, in depth detail. But, we had a break there between the Fringe podcast and then the, the Fringe Podcast rewatch, which is the, the current one.

[00:05:46] Jeff Sieh: Well, just a little, uh, side note, you know, our friend Lou Mongello, he’s a big fringe nerd. In fact, I, in my presentation I have kind of like named this tune and I have a list of like 25 songs that I play, and Fringe was one of them, and nobody uses it gets [00:06:00] that, but of course Lou did. So he’s the one who got that one.

[00:06:03] Jeff Sieh: So, uh, it does have a very cool, theme song, but it’s, it is a incredible show. I’m a big JJ Abrams fan, so, I really

[00:06:10] Darrell Darnell: Theme.

[00:06:11] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, yeah. So it’s just, it’s such a good show. I’m gonna have to rewatch it. I’m gonna go back and listen to all your rewatch and watch it and really nerd out about this one.

[00:06:19] Jeff Sieh: now you have another podcast, so I think you have like four total, correct. Like that you do, like, I know you produce a lot, but that you do, the stuff I learned yesterday that feels like really. Deep and personal and kind of reflective. they’re not super long episodes, but what inspired that project and how does that like fit alongside your more entertainment focused shows?

[00:06:41] Darrell Darnell: That’s a really good observation. Good question. I remember it was like, I think it was like 2012 or so. Fringe was still going on, and I loved Fringe and I loved talking about the subject matter. Fringe sci-fi lends itself to have some really tangential conversations. Star Trek was great at this. You know, you can [00:07:00] talk about race issues of the day because we’re talking about space creatures not.

[00:07:04] Darrell Darnell: You know, human race issues and, and sci-fi itself overall kind of lends itself to having those really wonderful conversations, whether it be about social issues or even religion and politics you’re not supposed to talk about. and I, I reached this stage where I was like, I want more of this.

[00:07:20] Darrell Darnell: That I don’t have to rely on the content of an episode to springboard me into these conversations. Not necessarily the political stuff. I don’t really enjoy talking about that stuff, but some of the stuff I do. And so, I began kind of searching within like, what does this look like? And I was at, New Media Expo in Las Vegas, and I don’t, I was sitting in a session and it just, I had this idea of birth within me.

[00:07:45] Darrell Darnell: And so I remember leaving the session quickly, trying to find a, a quiet place in a hotel casino, and, uh, finding this bench next to this side door. And this idea came to me called things I Learned Yesterday. And it would be [00:08:00] just kind of reflecting on the everyday moments of life that get past you if you’re not careful, but have some really practical application.

[00:08:07] Darrell Darnell: If you’ll take a moment to notice. And in that moment, I kid you not, I’m sitting here trying to find the dope buy, buy the domain name. Things I learned yesterday has already been taken, and it was later that day that I came up with stuff I learned yesterday and that that one was available and I took it. I like stuff I learned yesterday better anyway, on, on second thought.

[00:08:23] Darrell Darnell: but I’m sitting there on that bench and this worker from the hotel walks by and he’s got one of those kind of dumpster on wheels, for trash that you see. And, and, and he, you know, here’s this guy hauling trash. Which is not the dream job of anybody, let’s be

[00:08:39] Jeff Sieh: right, right,

[00:08:40] Darrell Darnell: Smile on his face whistling. He walks past me, his whistle catches my ear, and I look up and he smiles and waves.

[00:08:47] Darrell Darnell: And I’m a whistler too. I’ve always used to annoy my parents and people with my whistling. and so I just felt connected to this guy and he, he goes out and empties his, his trash and comes back a few minutes later, still smiling and whistling. And I was just like, that’s, that’s what I’m talking [00:09:00] about.

[00:09:00] Darrell Darnell: Those little everyday moments of life where there’s a lesson there if you, if you just open your eyes, pause and, and ponder. And, so the first episode was the contagious smile of the garbage Whistler, that that was the name of the first episode. And so that’s kind of what the, the podcast is about is, and I focus on, I have four pillars.

[00:09:18] Darrell Darnell: We, we might talk about pillars here in a little bit. This was the podcast where I first came up with the idea of content pillars to help me manage, content ideation and then the creation of the content. So, and I, I have a pillar for each week of the month. I do, it’s a weekly podcast, so the first week of the month is Faith where I talk about, either misconceptions that the population, general population has about the Christian faith or my own personal, uh, stories of, of the Christian faith.

[00:09:44] Darrell Darnell: the second week is all about family, and so it’s, it’s parenting or things that I had as a, as learned as a kid, as a, you know, just those sorts of things. The third week is all about career, so it could be my entrepreneurial journey, lessons I’ve learned from that, or my nearly 20 years I spent in the corporate world.

[00:09:58] Darrell Darnell: and then the fourth week is a wild card [00:10:00] where maybe there’s a, a, something that crosses over between those pillars or doesn’t squarely fit into a pillar. And so those go into that, that fourth week of the month. And then when there’s a fifth week. It’s open season and I invite the listeners to send in their contributions.

[00:10:13] Darrell Darnell: We call those Monday Mailbags. So, um, but that’s, that’s how it kind of came about and we’re almost to episode 700 now. So it’s, it’s been a quite a journey and not all those are hosted by me. I brought in some co-hosts for a while to help me kind of, bear that burden for a while. I, I started as a five day a week podcast, and then it went to three days a week, and now it’s just weekly, which is where it should have been all along probably.

[00:10:34] Darrell Darnell: But

[00:10:35] Jeff Sieh: Right. So, and the subjects of the, and and I, we were even talking be a little bit, about the parenting. Like you talked about daughters. We both have daughters that are relatively the same age and, you know, dealing with that. But there’s some very personal stuff in those, podcasts. Was that hard to do?

[00:10:51] Jeff Sieh: I mean, did you come outta the gate like, I’m gonna be really personal and very transparent? Or did that kind of grow over time that you noticed, okay, my audience really wants me to be more and [00:11:00] more transparent. I’m gonna kind of lean into that or has that the way you’ve always been, uh, doing your podcast.

[00:11:05] Darrell Darnell: I would say it’s a little bit of both. There’s definitely been a journey of what do I share, what don’t I share? And even on some of those episodes, like I have an episode that’s coming out later this year that I just wrote last week about my kids’ first dating experiences. And so those, I try to be mindful and reach out to the kids for two purposes.

[00:11:25] Darrell Darnell: do I have my facts right and are you okay with what I’m sharing here? And do you have anything that you would like to add? And, and sometimes they’re like, no, you got this wrong. Or sometimes they’re, they’re like, yep, go for it. You know? And so when I’m doing personal stuff with my kids like that, I try to get their permission.

[00:11:42] Darrell Darnell: but we’ve, when we first started the Fringe Podcast back in 2008, it was like episode, I don’t know, it feels like it was episode four or five. Where we started doing those in front of a live audience, just like we’re doing right now. We were using Ustream back in those days and we were, uh, had a an IRC chat room and we were always kind [00:12:00] of doing it in front of a, you know, a live studio audience, if you will.

[00:12:03] Darrell Darnell: And so just being raw and all your flubs and, you know, miscues and wrong words and all this stuff that goes along with just doing things live kind of made me feel comfortable with just being who I am. And then, as we’ve shared more episodes and people like that, that episode you just mentioned about my daughter back into the oven is the name of that episode.

[00:12:24] Darrell Darnell: And it talks about, you know, like sometimes you, you, you cook a batch of cookies and you gotta put ’em back in the oven to get ’em right. And sometimes that’s the way parenting can be for me, that was just kind of a, it was just an okay episode. Like it was, it was good. It, it did all the things that, a stuff I learned yesterday episode needs to do.

[00:12:39] Darrell Darnell: And yet, when you and I got on the call today and we were just pre chatting, that was the episode that you mentioned. And like, I woke up that morning to a comment, a, a Facebook message from one of our listeners. She said, today’s episode was brilliant. And I thought, oh. And then later on the day, I got another comment, and then another, I got three comments in the first day.

[00:12:57] Darrell Darnell: And that’s just like personal comments. [00:13:00] That doesn’t usually happen. Not like that, like what I thought was just an average, you know, checks all the boxes type of episode really connected with people in a, in a really tangible way. And, you know, that’s the one thing about being a content creator. You never know.

[00:13:14] Darrell Darnell: You just have to keep, you just have to keep creating. You just have to stick with it because sometimes the content you think is great doesn’t resonate with anybody. You know, it was just good in your own mind. And sometimes the, the content you think is just mediocre really strikes a chord with people and, and touches them in a very tangible and practical way.

[00:13:31] Darrell Darnell: So, that was one that really surprised me. How, how, uh. Impactful, it seemed to be on the audience.

[00:13:36] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it’s so funny the things that you think aren’t gonna work, work or, or vice versa. Like, uh, my daughter, uh, she’s a big Scooby-Doo fan she did this clip that’s on Instagram and I thought, it’s just silly, it’s me. And she compares me to one of the villains.

[00:13:49] Jeff Sieh: Uh, and she edited really nicely and it’s doing really, really well. And I thought it was just a throwaway thing. I thought, I’ll do it ’cause it something that she wanted to do. but it is, once again, she’s [00:14:00] way smarter than I am and it, it worked really, really well. So, it’s funny how that stuff works.

[00:14:04] Jeff Sieh: By the way, I forgot to mention we talked, we’ve been talking about live video a little bit, but this show is also sponsored by our friends over at Ecamm. They’re what makes this show possible. You find out more about them at Ecamm dot com slash jeff. You can say 15% by using Code Jeff, 15 for your first purchase.

[00:14:18] Jeff Sieh: I, I love live video. But, uh, it’s a lot easier now with, uh, tools like

[00:14:22] Jeff Sieh: Ecamm.

[00:14:23] Jeff Sieh: We asked the question like, what, what had got you started podcasting or what was the one that kind of, you really interested?

[00:14:28] Jeff Sieh: And Megan says, I got invited to co-host a, a show on an AV production that was her gateway to get into, what she’s doing now. And we’ve got our friend Gretchen saying, morning. Good to see you here, Gretchen watching over on YouTube. So we mentioned your, stuff I learned yesterday podcast, but kind of the, one of the big things that you have is your own media company.

[00:14:49] Jeff Sieh: Like you, you even have a podcast network, but Golden Spiral Media. When you started that, did you see that as a hobby, as a network that you were kind of gonna put all these podcasts in [00:15:00] or a business opportunity? Or did it just kind of like evolve naturally over time? I’m always interested in, entrepreneurs, kind of origin stories.

[00:15:07] Darrell Darnell: It kind of evolved and I have to give credit to Clint, who was my co original co-host for the Fringe podcast. so we started out, I mentioned Courtney and Jason were my coworkers, and with fringe’s, subject matter, we quickly realized, ’cause we did a bunch of podcasts like before the show premiered.

[00:15:25] Darrell Darnell: ’cause Fringe was doing some, online, like ARG type of, alternate reality game, interactive stuff for the fans. Lost did some of this. And Fringe was kind of trying some of that originally to, to promote and market the show before it started. So we were releasing content podcast episodes before the show ever aired, and it became clear to us that we needed someone with a science background.

[00:15:45] Darrell Darnell: And we began thinking, do we know any scientist? And I was like, oh, as a matter of fact, I go to church with one. He’s like, got a, a master’s degree in biochemistry and molecular biology. And so, Clint became our fourth and then eventually Courtney and Jason dropped [00:16:00] out. So it was just Clint and I for like the last three and a half seasons of the show. And he and I started doing some other podcasts. We did one about, this is, this was what, this was like way bleeding edge. So we did this in 2009 or 2010. It was called cutting the Cable and it was about how to stream all the content. Like nowadays streaming is everywhere, but it was in its infancy in those days.

[00:16:20] Darrell Darnell: it was fairly short-lived. And then we did one called Dad Hacker, which was all about how to be a, a is all about dads and parenting and this, that one was his idea. And he was leading that podcast and like no sooner did we start it, then his schedule changed and we had to cut it. So I think we did two episodes of that.

[00:16:36] Darrell Darnell: The same with, we had one called Portable Orchard, which was all about Apple Mobile. And that one got mixed as well. But when we were in those, those stages of coming up with more podcasts, we decided we need to do a network. So he and I went to Starbucks one night and I remember just sitting there for hours just trying to come up with names.

[00:16:54] Darrell Darnell: And making sure the URL was available and all that. And then finally he, after hours, he was like, what about Golden Spiral Media? Because [00:17:00] the Golden Spiral had been used in some of the pre-marketing of Fringe, and it’s it’s in the show, throughout, even in the final season, the Golden Spiral makes a very prominent,appearance in the show.

[00:17:10] Darrell Darnell: And so we thought that would be a way to always pay homage to how we got our start. And so that’s how the name came about. And yeah, it was so he always saw it as more of a business, and I always saw it as more of a just, uh, passion projects. I’m glad he saw it the way that he did. You know, I would’ve, my business skills weren’t what they were, are aren’t what they’re today.

[00:17:29] Darrell Darnell: And, and so we very much needed him as part of that, that visionary on that front. and then eventually, you know, like I said, he stepped aside and and you know, he’s not really actively involved in it anymore, but it’s a roots are very much because of, of Clint, his vision.

[00:17:44] Jeff Sieh: Mm. So I wanted to to ask you a little bit about the network, because this is a kind of a rabbit trail, but, you’ve got quite a few podcasts in your Golden Spiral Media Network. do you ask people to come on your network? Do they come approach you and you say, okay, here’s how it works. Or do you like [00:18:00] say, okay, you’re not ready for a network yet, you don’t have enough downloads?

[00:18:03] Jeff Sieh: Like, how does that application or growing the network happen?

[00:18:07] Darrell Darnell: Well, right now we’re not in growth mode at all. we’ve kind of retracted a little bit. When we first started a Golden Spiral Media podcast was a podcast that was hosted by either Clint or I, mostly both.

[00:18:19] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:18:20] Darrell Darnell: that was our, the way that we ran things for quite a while after Clint stepped away. And then after I quit my corporate job, I had this grand vision to turn the Golden Spiral Media into this massive TV fan podcast network.

[00:18:32] Darrell Darnell: And so I started inviting. Specific people that I knew that were already experienced in that onto the network, and we had some really good success. But then my, my pro podcast solutions, my, you know, the business that pays the bills started growing and taking more of my time. And as we had turnover on hosts, the quality standards didn’t get, uh, communicated.

[00:18:54] Darrell Darnell: That’s on me. And, you know, listeners, over time, this is like over a few years of [00:19:00] time, listeners started writing to me going, man, golden Sprout meeting is not what it used to be. Or, these, these new hosts you have are not, whatever, not all of them. Some of ’em are great but it just, it got difficult. and so I just made the decision as, as shows, uh, retire because, you know, a a a fan podcast, tv, a TV show, podcast gets canceled when the actual TV show gets canceled.

[00:19:19] Darrell Darnell: That’s the, that’s the breaks, right? And so, as. Shows came to their natural conclusion. I just decided we’re not gonna expand anymore. And so now Golden Spiral meeting is just a, a network that’s podcasts hosted by me. We may grow beyond that again at some point. but I felt for the time we needed to kind of pull it back and re-identify ourselves.

[00:19:36] Darrell Darnell: And so, it, it, it was a hard lesson to learn because, you know, for anyone who’s thinking about a podcast network, you really do need to, to bear that in mind. All that comes along with managing the people and the quality across the board. And, you know, further we got from shore, the more difficult that was to manage for me.

[00:19:53] Darrell Darnell: And, you know, made some mistakes.

[00:19:55] Jeff Sieh: So let’s go kind of the opposite direction ’cause I’d love your take on this ’cause I’ve had this [00:20:00] happen to me. When peop when you get approached to join a podcast network, what should you look at as a podcaster? Because, you know, if you get growth and you, if you’ve been doing it for a long time, I, I’m assuming there’ll be, a lot of people asking to join it.

[00:20:13] Jeff Sieh: We’ve had that a couple times with guy’s Show Guy Kawasaki’s Remarkable People podcast. what do you look for our network? Or when do you say, nah, it’s not for me as a podcaster.

[00:20:22] Darrell Darnell: Well, I think there are a few critical questions to ask. I mean, is there alignment in philosophy, quality standards, The type of content that’s being produced. Is there, is there a common umbrella that makes sense or uses some sort of random adjacent podcast that doesn’t fit with the rest of the content or, so those questions need to be asked, is it a good fit from a, and I’m assuming you’ve already got a podcast and you’re being asked to join a network, you know, that’s the way it works most of the time. then, you know, there’s usually some sort of revenue share that that is in place. And that’s just something that you’ve got to ask yourself. Are you comfortable [00:21:00] with the revenue share and the way that revenue share is, is done, the percentage. And that the timeline for getting paid and all the things that go into that are is that something?

[00:21:09] Darrell Darnell: And then the big thing is ownership. if you’re joining a podcast network, and if it’s your existing podcast. Then you need to retain ownership. At the end of the day, if you’re joining a podcast network to start a new show within that podcast, that podcast network is probably gonna own that content you’re coming on to create content for them.

[00:21:29] Darrell Darnell: So there’s, there’s a distinction there to be made as well. and so those are all things that you need to kind of make sure you’re, you’re reading the fine print and having alignment in those areas. And if there’s not alignment in any of those areas, then I would, you know, step away and, and look for another opportunity.

[00:21:43] Darrell Darnell: Or perhaps start your own network. Who’s to say,

[00:21:46] Jeff Sieh: And it’s interesting you say that, and I won’t mention the name, but it was a big, big company and they were having a podcast network, big names on it, but when you joined it, you, like you said, the rights were kind of revert to them and then they could actually replace you [00:22:00] as the host of your own podcast.

[00:22:02] Jeff Sieh: And I was like, wait, what? So yeah, that’s kind of, you need to make sure that, like you said it, there’s alignment there because it can get a little, crazy in the fine print if you’re not. If you’re not careful. it’s really interesting. Before this show, I’m a big, uh, a friend of, uh, Dave Jackson. And I asked Dave, I said, well, I have, I’m having Darryl in the show.

[00:22:19] Jeff Sieh: What should I ask him? And he goes, you know, I’ve never understood these media podcasts because they seem like, you know, you always have to say spoiler alert before it, because you’re talking about the show that just came out and then it goes after there. So, you know, I wanted to ask you, ’cause you know, many creators, Chase trends, that’s kind of a thing on social media and marketing.

[00:22:38] Jeff Sieh: but you’ve built these communities around these niche passions. So, and you mentioned that like when the show ends, that ends, are you always looking for another show, but how, I mean, how does that approach contribute to sustainability? Like, to me it’s like you’re kind of rolling the dice because this is gonna last longer than a season, or you know, what’s gonna happen when it’s gone and you put all this money and effort [00:23:00] and time building a podcast.

[00:23:02] Jeff Sieh: I’d love to know your thoughts on that.

[00:23:06] Darrell Darnell: If you’re going to get into a, a fan podcast, you know, that’s TV or film related. Like if you’re a fan podcaster about your favorite sports team, that’s a different story, right? The sports team’s gonna have a new season every

[00:23:17] Darrell Darnell: year, but when we’re talking about TV and film fan podcasting, you really have to surrender yourself to the idea that your podcast is, is reliant on the content that you are following, and when that content dries up, so do you.

[00:23:34] Darrell Darnell: And so when we, when we first start, like the Fringe podcast, we knew Fringe was going to be coming to an end. It was lucky to get season four. you could argue it was lucky to get season three. It was very lucky to get season four and very fortunate to get season five. And we knew going into season five it was going to be the end.

[00:23:49] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:23:50] Darrell Darnell: And so we were thinking, well, what do we do next? We don’t wanna lose our audience. We have this audience. They like us, we like them, we want to keep the the ball rolling. And so before Fringe finished that [00:24:00] fall of 20 13, 20 12, 2012, we started, following another show on that was on NBC. It was called Revolution.

[00:24:08] Darrell Darnell: And we thought it was gonna be the next thing. And we saw the pilot at San Diego Comic-Con that year. And so we put our stake in the ground and we were gonna follow that show. And we, I expected our audience to follow us with the new show. And it didn’t happen. Like our audience for the Revolution podcast was a fraction of what it was for the Fringe podcast.

[00:24:28] Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

[00:24:29] Darrell Darnell: and that’s. again, you’re kind of hitching yourself to that wagon and the, the popularity of the show is very much going to determine the popularity of your podcast. That’s just the way it is. I’ve, I’ve covered a lot of shows over the last decade plus and the popular, like my Stranger Things podcast is far and away the most popular podcast I’ve ever had.

[00:24:51] Darrell Darnell: we were sponsored by MeUndies last season, season four, which was, what, three years ago. But I remember when they reached out to us and asked, you know, what our downloads were for, you know, ’cause we were [00:25:00] doing basically off a CPM model. we told them, you know, our, our downloads are X And we negotiated our contract based on that.

[00:25:07] Darrell Darnell: And then for reasons I have no control over our audience doubled. Almost tripled on some episodes of what it was that previous season. I didn’t do anything for that. That was all about the show’s growth, you know, and that’s just the way it is. with TV podcasting, you are very much hitching yourself to the wagon of the networks and you kind of have to surrender yourself to that reality.

[00:25:29] Darrell Darnell: Having said that, you should be fostering a community, that we have a core group of people that I could podcast about my toenails and they would somehow follow me for that content. Right? and, and that’s based on relationships and community. And so you, you do have some control over that, but you also, I guess you have to surrender yourself to knowing that some of it, maybe most of it is out of your control when you’re doing this type of genre podcast.

[00:25:53] Jeff Sieh: So, I guess you kind of, kind of struck gold a little bit because of the delays with the seasons for [00:26:00] Stranger Things because it kind of drove people to, they’re thirsty for content and your show it’s providing them that content and the can nerd out about some of that stuff. So that turned out pretty well.

[00:26:11] Jeff Sieh: So. let’s say you have a show, do you wait for it to come out for a season and then decide to start a podcast? Or did you start like, as soon as it hit? I’m gonna start a podcast. like the day after the episode one goes out.

[00:26:22] Darrell Darnell: it’s been all of the above. So with Fringe, we saw the, I remember us seeing the, the teaser trailer that aired a few months before. Fringe premiered and Courtney, Jason and I, the next day at work, we all, we had all seen it and we were all excited. And so we, we made that decision well before we’d ever seen the pilot.

[00:26:39] Darrell Darnell: debris was another, show that we decided on. It came out like three years ago, four years ago, and it was done by the same showrunner that had done Fringe. Well, JJ started Fringe and then handed it off to a guy named Joel Wyman and, Jeff Pinner, and Joel was doing another show called Debris.

[00:26:57] Darrell Darnell: And so we hitched our wagon to that. It was a great show, [00:27:00] only lasted one season and we were done. stranger Things was the opposite. Like we had, we had people from our, our community going, Hey, there’s this Netflix show that just popped up. You guys should be covering it. And we, I remember this is back when we had a lot of hosts on our network, right?

[00:27:16] Darrell Darnell: It was in that stage of our, of our network. And I remember reaching out to every host one, does anyone have the bandwidth to take on this show called Stranger Things? And no one

[00:27:24] Jeff Sieh: Oh man.

[00:27:25] Darrell Darnell: And so I think it, I think it dropped in either June or July of whatever year it, it premiered. And, and so like in April or May, like almost a year later, my daughter came to me, she says, my friend and I want to we wanna start a podcast on this show called Stranger Things.

[00:27:41] Darrell Darnell: Can We put it on the Golden Sprout Media Network? And I’m like, only if quality standards are met and you gotta do this. And then she’s like, oh no. I said, I tell you what, kick your friend off. Co-host it with me. anyway, she wasn’t keen on that at first, like, podcasting with my dad. How? ’cause she’s in middle school at this point.

[00:27:56] Darrell Darnell: She’s the same age as the actors are, the primary actors and the [00:28:00] kids. anyway, long story short, we started on, the, the podcast just before season two dropped. we, we watched the whole first season, did an episode for each of those, and then we were ready to start. with season two started, so we’ve been following the show actively since season two, so it’s been all across the board.

[00:28:16] Darrell Darnell: You know, with, with that,

[00:28:17] Jeff Sieh: I think it was at a podcasting conference. You had gone to some Stranger Things Museum or something that you were going after the show or,

[00:28:24] Darrell Darnell: we did a, there’s a Stranger Things Escape Room in Plano, Texas. And so we had a, a meetup with, uh, some of listeners at a restaurant nearby and, played some Stranger Things trivia and just had a fun night doing that. And then we went over to the Stranger Things Escape Room and beat the crap outta that.

[00:28:43] Darrell Darnell: So it was,

[00:28:44] Jeff Sieh: That’s great.

[00:28:45] Darrell Darnell: yeah, we got the record. It was, we were like, oh yeah, that’s better.

[00:28:49] Jeff Sieh: that’s, that’s cool. ’cause I, well, it’s cool also that you activate your community and I think that’s one thing that podcasters really need to think about, especially with the world of AI and everything going on, is how can you activate your [00:29:00] community and how can you draw them in?

[00:29:01] Jeff Sieh: So that’s very, very cool. I have one final question just before we move on to this next section. Is that, like, looking back, what is something you learned from those early days, of, you know, podcasting or editing or whatever that still shapes how you produce or teach, podcasting today? What are some things that you can see looking back?

[00:29:19] Darrell Darnell: Well, I’ve mentioned it a little bit, but it’s really, community is the critical thing, especially in my field of, or my genre, like I said, because we’re, we’re shifting shows and we need an audience to connect with and do this with. It’s, it’s a reciprocal relationship. We need them, they need us, and hopefully we’re both getting, a lot of meaningful.

[00:29:41] Darrell Darnell: Kickback or connection through that. And I feel like we’ve done that. Like if you, if so, you’re a Fringe fan. There’s a, a thing in fringe called the white tulip. there’s a, an episode called White Tulip. very impactful. And at the end of it, Walter, who’s one of the characters, is asking God for a sign of [00:30:00] forgiveness in, in a white tulip.

[00:30:02] Darrell Darnell: And he gets it spoiler alert, but not in a way that he expects. And I, I, that’s all I’ll say, but for the fandom, the white tulip took on a different meaning. Like when the, when the show had its final panel at San Diego Comic-Con, The fans that were at the front of the room, there was like this, campaign, uh, behind the scenes to, to get these white tulips printed out on paper.

[00:30:23] Darrell Darnell: And so we all, lifted up these white tulips, not as a sign of forgiveness, but as a sign of gratitude and love and appreciation, and they knew exactly what it, and so that, that white tulip has kind of taken on a different meaning within the fandom since then. And for us as our podcast, we’ve had several tragedies in our fandom almost immediately after the, the show wrapped, around death of parents or, children or things like that.

[00:30:53] Darrell Darnell: And so, it’s, it’s coming two ways sometimes. we’ve had the entire community, get together and mail. Paper, white [00:31:00] tulips to, someone. I’ve sent white tulip flowers to several funerals and it’s, the community is reaching out and supporting each other. And so that’s the biggest thing that I’ve, I’ve learned is it’s always about the people.

[00:31:14] Darrell Darnell: I don’t care if you’re talking about TV shows or marketing, you know, social media, it doesn’t matter. Whatever podcast you have, it has to connect with a real tangible person. Like you were at a coffee shop having a one-on-one conversation, or you know, if you were at a conference and there were a hundred or a thousand people sitting there watching you, listening to you, that’s the way you need to perceive that connection that you’re making with a podcast.

[00:31:38] Darrell Darnell: It’s real people, and hopefully you’re making real connections because that’s really the thing that matters most.

[00:31:44] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome and I hope people who listen to and watch the show can see that there’s a theme of community that weaves through. everything we do. That’s why I do live show because I love seeing, people in there and, and in fact, like, uh, Rich’s comment, he says, uh, the new show on Apple tv, same time the show [00:32:00] premiered this week.

[00:32:00] Jeff Sieh: They did a podcast the same day that it came out. They’re not stupid. Apple knows what’s going on there. and then we’ve got Lou, popping in, said Jeff and Darrell on one show. Christmas came early this year. Thanks, Lou.

[00:32:12] Darrell Darnell: Hey, Lou,

[00:32:13] Jeff Sieh: but I wanna know from you guys, for those of you who are already podcasting, what’s been your biggest challenge in staying consistent with your show?

[00:32:23] Jeff Sieh: So you’ve been doing this for a while. I mean, Lou has been around since like the dawn of time. Like, I think he was using, I don’t know what he was using a, a cup and a string, to, get to his people back in the day. But, uh, yeah. I wanna know what you guys, what, you know, what are you struggling with to stay consistent?

[00:32:38] Jeff Sieh: I, I hear from a lot of podcasters. I know a lot of people who started one and stopped one. So what does it take to be consistent? So, Darrell, I wanted to, this is a great question by Dustin what would you say to someone who keeps getting told they should start a podcast but doesn’t know where to start?

[00:32:52] Jeff Sieh: Technically, he’s asking for a friend. So I think you know enough people, Dustin, that can help you out with this, but, uh,

[00:32:59] Darrell Darnell: [00:33:00] Dustin, I know a guy or two that could, uh, help you with that. If, if so, you’re so inclined. so you mentioned, uh, the, the giveaway that we have and, and so this is what I would recommend the people do if, if they’re in a position like Dustin is, let’s download the, the. It’s a couple of, it’s a PDF and an Excel spreadsheet that you get with it.

[00:33:19] Darrell Darnell: It’s a toolkit. And so the toolkit helps people kind of start with the, the basics. It’s called our foundation toolkit. These are foundational things that every podcaster should be considering. You know, you, you pour the foundation. If you don’t have a good foundation, the house crumbles. Right? And, and so these are, these are that important.

[00:33:39] Darrell Darnell: it’s four things. Like what is your unique selling process that is out there in your space? For us with Fringe, it was our scientist. We were the only podcast with a resident scientist that could tell us what was happening in the lab versus what was happening on the TV show. How fringe is that science that they’re talking about on the show? and so what’s gonna make you unique?

[00:33:59] Darrell Darnell: What’s gonna help you [00:34:00] stand out against the other podcast there? Yes, you yourself are unique, you are different. But beyond that, what’s, what’s gonna be, that thing that sets you apart? What’s your core purpose? Why are you doing this? Are you doing it just to, because you like to talk and people like to listen to you?

[00:34:17] Darrell Darnell: Not good enough? Let’s get better than that. You know, why, why are you doing this? And, and that’s your core purpose is going to sustain you on those dark days, lonely days. You know, those things where you’re not hearing from anybody, you’re not seeing the growth that you don’t want, you’re facing burnout.

[00:34:30] Darrell Darnell: You know, the, that core purpose should be something that is powerful enough to keep you going through, those difficult times. identifying your ideal listener is also a part of that so that you can connect with them. And people make the mistake of saying, well, I just wanna talk to everybody about everything.

[00:34:44] Darrell Darnell: I wanna be like Joe Rogan.

[00:34:47] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:34:48] Darrell Darnell: Those are the unicorns. and so probably need to, you know, narrow that down a little bit so you can know exactly what their needs are, where are they at? And, and that comes into the, and I mentioned pillars earlier, and that’s the, the other thing [00:35:00] that’s in this toolkit is those, those four pillars.

[00:35:02] Darrell Darnell: And I gave an example of how I use pillars. I was talking with a, a client earlier this week, she’s in the fitness space and specifically in, the space where you have a clinic or a, a, a facility where people can come in and do different types of fitness. So I, I’ll being vague on purpose, but and so her audience is people who are running those shops, not the people who are signing up for the lessons.

[00:35:28] Darrell Darnell: And that’s an important distinction. On who you’re now creating content for. And so by understanding that her core listener is someone who’s trying to run a, a fitness business, now her pillars look something like helping them understand how to run a business because maybe they were really passionate about fitness and they have people who are like, Hey, I’ll partner up with you and do this together.

[00:35:49] Darrell Darnell: You can teach me, but they don’t know how to run, run a business. You know, we, we have a lot of dental podcasts and that, that we’ve heard this over and over again. I, I, I graduated dental school knowing how to fix teeth, but [00:36:00] not knowing how to run a business.

[00:36:02] Darrell Darnell: And so, you know, for, for our dental podcast, often one of their pillars is educating people on how to run a business.

[00:36:07] Darrell Darnell: going back to the fitness, another pillar for her is, helping people develop teaching skills, how to market their business. Just different things like that. So you can kind of, once you have that ideal listener in place. Then you can start understanding where are they in their life, what type of help do they need?

[00:36:24] Darrell Darnell: And then we can develop content pillars around that. And once you have content pillars in place, now you can sit down and go, okay, one of my content pillars is helping them understand how to run a business. What episodes around that look like? Or maybe how to come up with a p and l or maybe, loan strategies, or like I said, maybe marketing techniques or just different things like that that go into running a business.

[00:36:44] Darrell Darnell: And you can start just ideating around, that single pillar. Before you know it, you take a single pillar, you’ve got 10, 15 ideas around that single pillar by just taking 30 minutes to an hour to ideate, and you come into the next pillar. And after you finish your four pillars, if you’ve done 10 or 15 [00:37:00] episodes around each pillar, you’ve got a year’s worth of content right there.

[00:37:04] Darrell Darnell: And now, the, the, content creation process just got a lot faster. You’ve just opened up yourself on the freeway to, to, uh, generate content.

[00:37:12] Jeff Sieh: it’s it’s amazing guide. You can find it@propodcastsolutions.com. Slash creator. So pro podcast solutions.com/creator, I downloaded it. It’s amazing. It it, and even there’s the Google sheet that you’ll get when he sends you the email after you sign up for it, which actually has like workflows and how to put stuff in.

[00:37:32] Jeff Sieh: I mean, it just really walks you through the entire, process. So, it’s one of the best ones I’ve seen for podcasters out there. So pro podcast solutions.com/creator. So go check that out. Lou said he started podcasting around a campfire in a cave.

[00:37:48] Jeff Sieh: So back in the day, I’m surprised they had fire back then. Yeah. but Rich says, I sometimes have a hard time finding things to comment about. He does a show based on things that happens [00:38:00] in his industry. He does a lot of promotional products,

[00:38:03] Jeff Sieh: So what do you tell somebody who like Rich, who’s like, I want a podcast. I know I can, but sometimes I struggle with what to say. What would you tell that person?

[00:38:12] Darrell Darnell: Yeah. I’m just spit balling here on, on that particular industry. So, again, it comes down to pillars. I think if you can, diverge yourself into different pillars, I think that industry news is, would be one of those pillars. And so that could be stuff that’s happening at a conference, looking through the conference speakers and seeing what their topics are.

[00:38:29] Darrell Darnell: if you’ve got an industry trade publication, or, I mean more, more likely this day and age, a digital publication, looking at articles there and, and not. Ripping off that content, but using that to go, oh, this is a good topic. What’s my take on this topic? And, and then generating unique content out of those.

[00:38:44] Darrell Darnell: Those are, I mean, that’s a wealth of, of content ideas right there. But I would also look at, within your industry, if you, if you’re, if you’re looking at those, like the printing on cups or pens or, you know, those sorts of things, if, if I’m understanding it right, how are people using those products [00:39:00] and how are those people, how’s the end product getting into the hands of, of people or how are they selling it to, to people?

[00:39:06] Darrell Darnell: or, what’s the technology looking like? Because I, that’s, that’s a, that’s a industry and from my point of view, that has changed dramatically over the last 10 years. Like, I remember when we first started the Fringe podcast, we had a Cafe Press store. We’d have to send things off to Cafe Press and get our custom logo on there.

[00:39:20] Darrell Darnell: And of course they would drop ship it for us and stuff like that. But it seems like over the last few years, that technology has become much more accessible and, and, and is available on a whole lot of different products now. What is the technology and how are people utilizing that? I don’t know, just kind of spit balling the.

[00:39:36] Jeff Sieh: I think that’s great. I would, like I said, recommend your, uh, guide for anybody who has those, those questions or, trying to figure out like what to talk about. ’cause having those four pillars helps you really start thinking about, okay, I do have content for this. Oh, maybe a little light on this.

[00:39:53] Jeff Sieh: Maybe I need to do some research on that to fill out that pillar a little bit more. So I think that’s a, a great thing. So make sure once again to [00:40:00] check out that guide. now I just, you know, discoverability is huge for podcasting, like trying to get your show found and listened to. It’s not as easy as it used to be.

[00:40:09] Jeff Sieh: I’m sure that, you know, having it tied to Stranger Things or Fringe or whatever, having a show that’s out in public’s a little bit easier. But what’s an, what’s your actual launch strategy to stand out from like the sea of sameness, all these podcasts coming out every day? What do you recommend for people to stand out in their launch strategy?

[00:40:28] Darrell Darnell: Well, the first thing I say is your launch strategy is not going to make or break you. I know this, that you’re a Disney fan, and so you might know that the first day that Disneyland opened, it was a disaster. The toilets worked, but with the water fountains did not. They had to make a decision.

[00:40:43] Darrell Darnell: There was a plumber strike and they had to make a decision. Do we have working toilets or working water fountains? And Walt wisely chose working toilets. there were fraudulent tickets. People were jumping over the fence, and so they had three times the people in the park that they had capacity or food for.

[00:40:56] Darrell Darnell: So they ran outta food rides broke down. The [00:41:00] asphalt had been pour the night before. And, and women’s shoes were, the heels were sticking down into digging because of the heat. It was a hundred over a hundred degrees. they called it Black Sunday. It was such a disaster. I think Disneyland was able to do okay after that.

[00:41:14] Darrell Darnell: I was there, last year, and it was, it was still doing pretty well. So your launch strategy, even if it’s a disaster, is not going to make or break you if it is a disaster. what can you learn from it? How can you improve? How can you communicate better, better your systems and so forth. so don’t stress out about the launch.

[00:41:32] Darrell Darnell: That’s my number one tip. A lot of people think that if I don’t get a good launch, then I’m sunk, and that’s just not the case. consistent quality content over time is going to be the thing that makes or breaks your podcast. So focus on the content first. Be consistent with delivering that content, and I mean, consistent.

[00:41:51] Darrell Darnell: Every Thursday at 3:00 AM for example, my episode comes out, you know, people are going to work you into the rhythm of their lives. We all have a rhythm to our [00:42:00] life. We get up at so-and-so. We make coffee, we eat breakfast, we take a shower. We, we can make the commute, you know, we do spreadsheets all day.

[00:42:07] Darrell Darnell: And while we’re doing those, we listen to our pod, whatever it is. Like they have their dedicated time, they’re listening to podcasts, and they’re gonna work you or someone else into that time. And if you can be consistent, then they’re going to consistently, you know, work you into that, rhythm. So, I don’t, I don’t think that people should stress over launch.

[00:42:25] Jeff Sieh: Got it. speaking of people who probably should take a shower, we’ve got Lou popping and go in Fringe. He came in late. I’ll give him, we talked about Yardi Lou saying how much that you won the contest. ’cause you knew that the the Fringe theme song, ’cause he is a big, he is a big fan. we kind of talked about this a little bit, but I wanna, I want kind of go over it because we, we did go into community a little bit.

[00:42:44] Jeff Sieh: You know, stranger Thing’s gonna wrap up this year, it’s gonna be done. What happens to the community, more importantly, that you’ve built for it. You’ve got fans, you’ve got people super passionate about it. Do you have an exit strategy? Are you gonna try to like, maybe do a rewatch party after [00:43:00] it finally wraps?

[00:43:01] Jeff Sieh: like, you hate to build a community and the people are invested in you. They like you. That’s why they show up every week to hear you talk about this thing. How can you keep that community going and not like, abandon them once the show is over? I mean, and this doesn’t have to do with like, media podcasts.

[00:43:15] Jeff Sieh: A lot of times you’ll have different seasons, even for a business podcast, like, we’re not gonna be talking about this anymore. Or this company, you know, talking about Microsoft Front page, most people don’t use that anymore. So, you know, like, how do you keep that community going? Or do you, or do you say, S I’m really interested in that.

[00:43:32] Darrell Darnell: ultimately it’s what are your, what are your long-term plans or desires? If you are ending your podcast and you have no future plans, then you owe it to your audience to, regardless of what your future plans are, you owe it to your audience to communicate that to them. Hey, we’re taking a seasonal break for the summer.

[00:43:48] Darrell Darnell: We’ll be back in September and make sure you’re subscribed to our newsletter so that you cause you should be capturing email addresses, by the way, and, and emailing your audience and letting them [00:44:00] know, often every week. But, you know, making, making, in this example, making sure they’re a part of your email list so that you can, email them and let, let them know when you’re back on the air.

[00:44:08] Darrell Darnell: If you’re in my situation where well, fringe is over, what are we doing next? You know, like I said, we tried to transition our audience by starting the next podcast before Fringe wrapped, and we had mixed results with that. in terms of like a, a Saara party or something like that, that can be a thing to do.

[00:44:26] Darrell Darnell: We did that with Fringe. In fact, we, we knew ahead of time when the. Show was going to wrap. And so it was in mid-January of 2013. And so we put together a finale party here at our convention center. We invited people to, to come and join us. And we had about 50 people flying in from around, uh, the US and Canada.

[00:44:44] Darrell Darnell: And we watched the finale together. We did a live podcast. Right after it was over, we had about a thousand people or maybe 800 people join us for that live podcast. and it was a great event. You know, we all kind of said goodbye to the show together and it was wonderful. And so I think there are [00:45:00] circumstances that might arise where that could be appropriate or are meaningful for a non TV show related podcast, but it all goes back to that community that you’ve built and the connections you’ve made.

[00:45:09] Darrell Darnell: But, you know, if you’re shifting gears into a different podcast, it all comes down to, to communication and letting your audience know, here’s the new podcast, here’s where you can find us, and so forth. If, if, if you expect to have some carry over.

[00:45:22] Jeff Sieh: I know and he’s gonna get a big head and he probably won’t be able to fit the door out of his basement, but Lou does a great job with this. In fact, he did a watch party, at one time. I can’t remember what was it for? oh, it was a new Marvel show, but we all watched it together in his community and talked about it.

[00:45:38] Jeff Sieh: It was so much fun. you know, those kind of things. It may have been the Wanda visions, I’m not sure. But, uh, it was doing those kind of things. Having those watch parties in activating your community,

[00:45:48] Darrell Darnell: Yeah, I mean, you mentioned the, uh, the, we did the, escape room and the trivia night. You know, those types of things, like I know Lou has gotten together and joining me at the park for dinner at this restaurant or, or different things with his [00:46:00] community. Those are types of things that are available to, to any podcaster.

[00:46:03] Darrell Darnell: You know, having, having an an in-person meetup for any reason whatsoever to do an activity together. Maybe you’ve got a day training that you wanna do or something like that. Those are things that any podcaster can be tapping into to, to build that community.

[00:46:16] Jeff Sieh: It was Moon night. That’s right. Lou told me. Yeah, it was

[00:46:18] Jeff Sieh: moon night that we watched it for. That was, that was fun. he does, and he has a, a great comment. He goes, uh, people come for the content, IE Stranger Things, Jeffs beard, but they also stay for the people, the host and other members and conversations.

[00:46:31] Jeff Sieh: That’s what I love. Like when we do this show, when people like Gretchen and I and other people in, in the comments when they’re talking back and forth to each other, you know, Dustin says, Hey, I need, you know, I need those kind of promotional products. Let me know, rich, you know, and that kind of stuff. I think that is the coolest thing ever.

[00:46:46] Jeff Sieh: Having your community just like, take care of each other inside of the chat or whatever. as we move on this next section, oh, we only got a couple minutes left, but I’ve gotta cover some of this stuff. I wanna know from you guys, what is one, production skill or tool [00:47:00] you wish. That you could instantly master?

[00:47:02] Jeff Sieh: Would it be editing, would it be mixing? Would it be sound design or would it be something else? What would you love to like snap your fingers and be really good at when it comes to those type of production skills? I would love to know, let us know down below. But, I wanted to talk a little bit about length because like the Fringe podcast, the one I was kind of looking at and I’ve kind of, tasted some of your content dipping into it.

[00:47:23] Jeff Sieh: Some of it runs over two hours, like they’re not short podcasts, right? So how do you decide what the right length is, for your podcast compared to different audiences? ’cause I know you probably get this question a lot, like, how long should my podcast be?

[00:47:37] Darrell Darnell: Yeah. I love Dave Jackson’s answer on this, and that is as long as it needs to be and not a minute longer. And if that’s 20 minutes or 10, great. If it’s three hours, fine as long as the content is good. But ask your audience our episode length is the way that it is because we just talk a lot. There were, again, there were four of us initially with the Fringe podcast, and [00:48:00] it takes some time to give everybody an opportunity to share their opinion on a show.

[00:48:03] Darrell Darnell: And we had all these segments and then we had listener feedback. We started getting in so much listener feedback. ’cause everyone wants, wants to share their theory or their favorite moments. This is water cooler stuff, right? And so everyone wants, wants to have their turn to, to talk at the water cooler.

[00:48:16] Darrell Darnell: And I remember, this is again, 2008, 2009, and, data, was a lot different back in those days. Cellular speeds were a lot different in those days. And podcast apps handled the content a lot different in those days. But the audience started telling us, Hey, these episodes are too long. Can you break it in half?

[00:48:33] Darrell Darnell: We want all the content, but can you break it

[00:48:35] Darrell Darnell: in half? So we did, we had two episodes a week. We recorded them back to back, but had a nice little natural split. We treated them, we recorded them as two separate episodes. and so that was really insightful. Like, okay, an hour and 40 minutes or so is what they wanted for a length. And so that hour 40 kind of became our, our threshold of where content would be, even as everything else, advanced cellular speeds and data plans and [00:49:00] technology, all that stuff advanced. So when we started the Fringe Podcast, rewatch our, our pod cast episodes were going over two hours, as you said.

[00:49:06] Darrell Darnell: And I said to the Audi, I was uncomfortable with it. And I, I said to the audience, are these episodes too long? Do we need to cut these into two episodes again like we did back in the old day? And they, resently said, no, keep it. And that’s just a sign of the times having changed. And if you go into your Apple Podcasts dashboard and you look at your episodes, they will show you what your consumption rate is, how, how long are people listening before they trail off.

[00:49:30] Darrell Darnell: And ours are consistently 90%, uh, consumption. So. They’re liking the, the longer, and that’s another tool that you can use, like are people, you know, you might ask them and I encourage you to do that, but it’s something you’re not gonna get an answer from a lot of people, maybe, maybe 5% of your audience. But you can, everybody is communicating through how long they’re listening.

[00:49:50] Darrell Darnell: And Apple’s dashboard only includes the Apple ecosystem. But it should be enough to give you an educated idea whether people are actually consuming or where they’re trailing off in your podcast

[00:49:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:50:00] Awesome. I do have one more que but I gotta pull up this one from Lou. He goes, PS I’m thinking about starting a late night fall asleep fringe rewatch. Just subscribe to the podcast so I could listen alongside the rewatch, uh,

[00:50:11] Darrell Darnell: seahorse. Love it. Love it. See, that’s a true hashtag seahorse.

[00:50:15] Jeff Sieh: yeah. So, uh, he is a true fringe nerd, but I wanted to talk about a little bit about your, we haven’t mentioned it yet.

[00:50:22] Jeff Sieh: You have the fifth dimension, entering the fifth dimension. It’s, uh, a podcast about the Twilight Zone and. Because I’m, I nerd out about sound design and if you haven’t caught it throughout the show, Darrell has talked about, quality and that people on his podcast network have to have a certain quality and all that kind of stuff.

[00:50:39] Jeff Sieh: His shows are very, very high quality. his intros are great. If you listen to any of his shows, you’ll, you’ll just know the amount of time and love that he’s put into these. But, I was really impressed with the intro for this Rod Sterling style, intro that you have talking about your podcast. It sounds like him.

[00:50:57] Jeff Sieh: It’s kind of uncanny. So I wanted to know, and you told me to make [00:51:00] sure to ask this question, did you use AI for that voice work or was it a traditional production, or how did you pull that off? ’cause it sounded really, really good.

[00:51:07] Darrell Darnell: Thank you for, for that. I, I, yeah, I really wanted you to ask this question because nobody asks me about that. okay. So you’re a bit of a Disney nerd. What’s your favorite ride at the Orlando Parks?

[00:51:20] Jeff Sieh: Oh, favorite. It’s hard to tell. I mean, like, there’s classic ones. I mean, I love the, the Haunted Mansion is one of my favorites ’cause it’s a classic one. So,

[00:51:28] Darrell Darnell: Okay. What about Hollywood Studios? Do you have a favorite ride there?

[00:51:31] Jeff Sieh: oh gosh. I mean, I love Rise of the Resistance. That’s kind of my, my favorite

[00:51:34] Darrell Darnell: Okay. Yeah, that’s fair. So my favorite ride is also Haunted Mansion, but my favorite ride at Hollywood Studios is the Twilight Zone

[00:51:41] Jeff Sieh: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[00:51:43] Darrell Darnell: And if you go on that ride, you, the pre-show is a video from Rod, and then you hear Rod’s voice throughout the show or the ride. you’ll see Rod, but you will never actually hear the voice of Rod Sterling at any point throughout that ride.

[00:51:55] Darrell Darnell: Were, are you aware of this?

[00:51:57] Jeff Sieh: I, I knew that, that they did some super magic, to make [00:52:00] that happen. Yeah.

[00:52:01] Darrell Darnell: They reached out to a voice actor by the name of Mark Silverman and got the approval from the Sterling family. And so he is now the defacto voice of Rod Sterling. When they had the anniversary last year, he was invited out to be a participant in that. And he’s kind of, he’s Sterling family.

[00:52:16] Darrell Darnell: Knowing this, this is several years ago, maybe 2016.

[00:52:20] Darrell Darnell: It was 2016. I had a, a friend in the voice acting space. And I reached out to her and I said, do you happen to have a connection to Mark Silverman? And she says, as a matter of fact, I do. And so she connected us and I said, mark, I’m starting this. Um, you don’t know me. I’m friends with this person and, uh, starting a podcast about the Twilight Zone, and I’m wondering if I could hire you to be the voiceover for the intro outro.

[00:52:44] Darrell Darnell: And he said, maybe, uh, you’ll need to go through my, agent. Okay. So I went through the agent, he gave me that contact information, and the agent said, send me the script. And I did. And he said, how are you using this? And I told him how I was using it. And he said, okay, here’s the price. And it was a lot.

[00:52:59] Darrell Darnell: I mean, it

[00:52:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:53:00] bet you

[00:53:00] Darrell Darnell: and so I came back to Mark and I said, mark, I am so sorry. I am embarrassed. I have wasted your time. I, I expected it to be a premium rate. it’s way beyond my budget. I appreciate you. I thank you for being kind. I’m embarrassed. And he said, what did my, agent tell you? And I, I told him the price.

[00:53:18] Darrell Darnell: And he says, send me the script. So he, I sent him the script and he is like, oh, I love this. You’ve done some great things here. How about this price? And it was a fraction of what the agent had said. And I’m like, yeah, that is well within my budget. And so, um, he did it.

[00:53:33] Jeff Sieh: cool. That is such a good story. That is so cool. it reminds me again, and we talked about this, at Lou Mao’s momentum, who, I just went there once again, his head’s gonna get so big, but we talked a lot about this as so many of the presenters there talked about tenacity is just asking and then following up, like the cake bake lady used to show up with a cake and says, Hey, I have a cake here for Steve Martin.

[00:53:55] Jeff Sieh: And Martin Short, and just walked backstage and gave it to him and like

[00:53:59] Darrell Darnell: I didn’t know that story about [00:54:00] her.

[00:54:00] Darrell Darnell: That’s amazing.

[00:54:01] Jeff Sieh: And so, um, like, but you would see this theme through the presenters who have, really gone through and, and seized opportunities. And one of the things is just asking and just doing. And I love that story because that’s exactly what you did.

[00:54:13] Jeff Sieh: And it shows in that, uh, the podcast intro. It is, it is just, if you guys aren’t into Twilight Zone, just go listen to the intro because it is very, very cool. I love it. so what advice would you give creators who want to add more production polish, like music effects, like an intro like you, you’ve done with the, the, the Twilight Zone.

[00:54:34] Jeff Sieh: Without getting overwhelmed with editing, what would you tell people who wanna take their show, maybe to the next level, or, or they’ve done it for a while and they’re like, listen, it’s getting stale. I need to kind of boost it up another, another level.

[00:54:44] Darrell Darnell: Well hire it out.

[00:54:46] Jeff Sieh: That’s

[00:54:46] Darrell Darnell: That’s what guys like us are around for, uh, is to really help those folks who need production help, either from time or from a quality standpoint. That’s why we’re here. Now, I understand that there are a variety of reasons why that’s [00:55:00] not available for, for everyone. there are other resources that are out there too, Fiverr, you can have some good success with, although there’s some copyright issues sometimes with that too.

[00:55:09] Darrell Darnell: So I would just also caution with that. you know, in, in terms of production too, like I use a road caster now, like for my, we still do the Fringe podcast rewatch as a live show. And so, like you’re doing here where you’re coming in and out with different audio and video techniques and you’re probably using a stream deck or Elgas software for that.

[00:55:28] Darrell Darnell: those are, those are great tools. My road caster has sound pads where when it comes to the time to do the, the fringe binge, I hit the little bumper cue for that and it, it plays it for the live audience. And so if you do that right, it’ll reduce your editing time as well. ’cause it’s already, you know, baked into the live production.

[00:55:47] Darrell Darnell: Although I still record multi-track. So I have that, that, that, that suite, Editing ability to tweak it on the back end. But when I started, it was a, it was a mixer and wires going everywhere. Some [00:56:00] going in and outta the board, and then back into the board for different effects. And then, auxiliary outputs so the people can hear it on the live stream.

[00:56:05] Darrell Darnell: And now it’s a USB cable and it’s a very small footprint on your desk. And so those tools are, are really great. the Descript is also a, a, a great tool for editing. Riverside has some auto editing tools, built into it as well. and from an AI point of view, I use AI for a lot of my written content.

[00:56:23] Darrell Darnell: And so, I would recommended a tool called Magai for that. Dustin’s head’s gonna get big now, but, uh, Magai Co is a great, a ai. There you go.

[00:56:31] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:56:32] Jeff Sieh: Imagine that. Go for slash Jeff. Save some money. so Darrell, this has been fabulous. I could nerd out and talk to you all day, but I want to give this last kind of time for you, tell people where they can find you, your download that you have, all this stuff that is Darrell Darnell.

[00:56:48] Darrell Darnell: Yeah, and you’ve given some great links to Rat and I, I appreciate that. pro podcast solutions.com there on the screen is where you can find our production company will help you launch your podcast or take over the, the editing and [00:57:00] production of your podcast, both audio or video. golden spiral media.com is the, website for all my Nerdery stuff, stranger Things, Twilight Zone, uh, stuff I learned yesterday In Fringe are the, the four that are currently active over there on at uh, golden Media.

[00:57:15] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and don’t forget, Darrel’s giveaway that you can find out@propodcastsolutions.com slash creator. We’ve talked about a couple times, but it is a great resource. Go check that out. And don’t forget, my friends, we talked about community and live streaming and all this stuff. You can find out more about Ecamm, which is what we use to produce this show we go live with, and it, it does multi-track, which is amazing.

[00:57:37] Jeff Sieh: So I have all this opportunity to repurpose all this stuff, which for this show, I’m gonna have a ton of content because it’s been so good. You find out more about that at Ecamm dot com slash jeff. use code Jeff 15 to say 15% on your first purchase. And with that folks, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:57:54] Jeff Sieh: Thank you to Lou and Gretchen and rich and Dustin and everybody who showed up [00:58:00] asks questions. Jim Fs as well. Thank you guys so much for today. We appreciate you. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye everybody.