SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Conor Brown: First and foremost, it is true. When we think of the salesperson, I talked about this in my presentation. The first thing that comes up, and Chris Stone mentioned it today, it’s the sleazy car salesman, right? Rubbing their hands together. Oh, I’m going to hoodwink you.

[00:00:12]I’m going to get you, right? In reality, that’s not what we’re doing. we’re, we’re content creators. We’re entrepreneurs. We’re salespeople, but we’re also a million other things, right? The car salesman, that’s all they are. They’re a salesperson. they don’t do anything else. They sell the thing. We, on the other hand, as entrepreneurs, have a million hats we have to wear, and sales is one of them.

[00:00:39] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to social media news live. I’m Jeff Sieh. And you’re not.

[00:00:43] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:50] Jeff Sieh: You ever felt uncertain about how to confidently sell your product or service without coming across as pushy. Maybe you’ve wished there was a way to connect with your customers that feels natural and genuine. Or maybe you’re looking to refine your approach to sales and turn more conversations into meaningful results.

[00:01:09] If those questions sound familiar, then Hey, you are in the right place today. I’m excited to welcome someone who knows a little bit about the art of selling. Inside and out, it’s Connor Brown, the amazing co host of the show. He is also founder of Vacation Kingdom, and he’s turned his passion for travel and theme parks into a thriving business.

[00:01:29] And he’s here to share his journey, his strategies, and actionable advice to you. So, sit back, clear schedule, clear mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live with our very own Connor Brown. Connor, so glad you’re here. Thank you for being here once again today.

[00:01:46] Conor Brown: Absolutely. Starting the new year off on the other side of the show, looking forward to answering the questions. Not just asking them today.

[00:01:55] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, this’ll be fun. So, if you don’t know Connor, you know, he is a part of the show almost every week, but he’s also the founder of Vacation Kingdoms and he’s a lifelong. Theme park fan, he’s a traveler, a former Walt Disney World cast member and current travel advisor who loves to help people plan their vacations to the destinations they love.

[00:02:14] He’s a marketer by trade and he’s able to apply the techniques he used in his the corporate world to create His successful travel advisor business. Additionally, as the director of agent development at the Keys to the Castle Travel Agency, he has trained dozens of travel advisors by sharing his sales and marketing expertise so that they can also achieve their travel business goals.

[00:02:35] I saw Connor. speak about this at momentum and he, he just blew everybody away. He, one of the favorite sessions, during the whole weekend. So I was excited to get him to talk about this today. So Connor, I appreciate you going under the microscope, today for this, this little session about selling.

[00:02:52] And by the way, We’re talking about, we’re about some tools today with Connor, but one of our tools that we use on this show all the time is our friends over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Use code JEFF15 to save 15 percent on your first purchase. They are one of the tools that we use, to run the show and keep everything going, switching screens, lower thirds.

[00:03:13] It’s got integration with Zoom. You guys need to check it out. ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. All right, Connor Brown. Here we go. the art of selling. So this is a struggle for a lot of people. It, I mean, for me as well, it’s, it’s one of those things that I, I struggle with a little bit, especially it’s something about it.

[00:03:33] It’s easy to talk about when you’re working for somebody else or like pushing Ecamm. I love Ecamm. It’s one of my favorite tools. I don’t have any problem doing that, but why do we feel weird when it’s our own products and services? I mean, do you have any theories of why that is?

[00:03:48] Conor Brown: Yeah, it’s because we’re our own worst critic, right, we’re we critique ourselves the most we’re You know, our, sometimes we’re our biggest cheerleader, but more often than not, we’re our biggest enemy as well. We are always struggling with, it’s not good enough, right? We’re always suffering from perfection verse when we use a product that we don’t actually create, we just have good emotions.

[00:04:15] Or, or, or bad emotions, right? It’s, it’s not an overtly criticized thing because we’re not the ones creating it. And I think that that’s the biggest thing. It’s just this, Oh, I’m not good enough. Oh, sheepishly. It’s okay. Right. And we always talk about the thing. Oh, I have this little blog. I have this little podcast.

[00:04:35] I have this little product. We’re always in adding in these, these adjectives that we think are harmless, but in reality, they do a lot more harm than, than we think by saying it’s little, it’s nothing. By kind of demeaning it in a ways, we’re also setting ourselves up for failure when it comes to actually selling those, those products.

[00:04:54] So it’s our own personal stuff, really.

[00:04:57] Jeff Sieh: It’s funny that you say that because we’ve talked about this before, is that, you know, we’d like to compare ourselves to others a lot. You know, when we, like you mentioned, like our small little podcast or small little blog, but you think about the people around you, like at your church or your PTA or wherever you’re going.

[00:05:13] Nobody is doing what you are doing as a creator. If you think about it, like hardly anybody is doing this. I mean, we’re in this small little pond and we see all these big fish around us and we think, oh, we have to be like them or, oh, they’re so much better than us. But in reality, you compare it to the rest of the population, you know, we’re doing things that most people don’t do.

[00:05:32] Conor Brown: So I think. Taking that in and give yourself a little break is important too, because I know I felt that same way. One of my favorite, quotes that we heard at Momentum this past year was, you know, To the kindergartner, the fifth grader is king. And it’s so true, right? I, I love it. I keep saying that,even though Momentum was, was months ago, now, it is true. The, the fifth grader in reality doesn’t know anything, right?

[00:05:59] They’re a fifth grader. But to that kindergartener, they know everything and more, and you’ll never actually, think you can achieve that level. And that’s what you are. You, you might be a fifth grader, you might be a senior, you might have a doctorate, but, but Whatever part along the way, someone’s going to be looking to you for advice.

[00:06:16] And you have to know that your shared experiences or, or what you’ve done by yourself makes you an expert and you shouldn’t ever downplay that.

[00:06:25] Jeff Sieh: Speaking of, shared experiences, our friend Amy Keyes, was also at Momentum and she goes, such a great session at Momentum, everyone’s jaw dropped when he was done. And it was mostly because you forgot to save your pants up, but, but your, your content was really great as well. Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:39] Conor Brown: that’s what I know. And I, I regret that. I apologize. So, but I’m glad everyone thought it was memorable.

[00:06:46] Jeff Sieh: let’s go in one of the things about confidence selling, because that is something that we talked about the beginning. It’s something a lot of people struggle with is being confident in your product. we talked about compare and sell with others, but how do you want your clients to feel after working with you or using your product?

[00:07:04] So we’re going to kind of dive into being more confident, but it’s also how you want to make your client feel, because that has a lot to do with this confidence selling.

[00:07:13] Conor Brown: I think, you know, you want to start backwards, right? At the end, when they’re done using your, your product or your service or whatever it is, what emotions do you want to be elicited from that? I talk about sales a lot, but I said, you know, I’m a marketer by trade, so I’m always looking for Advertising techniques, marketing techniques, and trying to take that and replicate it on the sales side of things, because they’re all intertwined, right?

[00:07:40] All those three things, whether it’s sales, marketing, or advertising, we’re trying to get you to buy something. So look at the huge companies that do this really, really well. Apple. Apple rarely talks about, oh, the technical aspects of this iPhone are revolutionary, right? We have these chips and it’s on their sales page, sure, but the advertisements that actually sell things are all emotional based.

[00:08:05] There’s a great one right now about New Year’s resolutions for the Apple Watch. If you watch any of the college football games that have been going on, you probably see it every single time they go to commercial break, and it’s all about Quitter’s Day, which is the second. Friday in January where everyone quits their new year’s resolutions, right?

[00:08:23] And this commercial that they have is this girl who is bundled up and it’s cold and it’s clearly new year’s day. She’s got her new Apple watch on, she’s going out and she’s running and she’s not very good about it. But her Apple Watch is helping guide her through that process, right? The end of the commercial, a year later, she’s now a runner.

[00:08:44] She’s a runner because of her Apple Watch. It shows her looking confident, looking in shape, running really well, and most importantly, smiling and feeling good. It never said, Hey, this product has revolutionized, you know, X, Y, and Z. No, it just says it can help you achieve your goals. It can help you run when you want to accomplish something like that.

[00:09:06] So that’s kind of the, crux that I always talk about. It’s how do you want your customer or client to feel at the end of it? For me, when I’m helping people plan vacations to Disney World, Universal, Disney Cruise Line, what they almost always come to me with is confusion, overwhelm, stress, right?

[00:09:26] There are all of those emotions. By the time they’re done with it, I want them to be in the park, unstressed, focused. And happy on the vacation that they’re having right now. Not wondering what should I do? Not panicking that they’re not going to get it all done. No, all along the way, I’m helping them with that so that I can say, Hey, what do I do?

[00:09:48] I help you have a stress free vacation that helps you focus on the family time that you’re looking to achieve with this vacation. That’s what I do. That’s what I want people to feel with and I reverse engineer it. So then I also have that be my sales pitch to people of why they should work for me, with me.

[00:10:06] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. So let’s, let’s back up a little bit because I agree. It was a great example. Apple, they do a masterful job. And the funny thing is usually they’re behind the curve when it comes to tech innovation, they let other people do it. And then they kind of say, Oh, we’re going to do it package it a little bit better.

[00:10:24] And then do this amazing like advertising stuff. A lot of us though, don’t have Apple’s budget. we just don’t like, right. and let’s take people like say Amy Keyes. She’s got a, you know, a PR kind of firm and she, has a podcast. So she, and she’s got, you know, some people working for maybe some contractors and, you know, part time people, whatever, how can she take this?

[00:10:47] And the same way with like Ask Ralph, who’s watching, who is a finance guy who. You know, as an accountant, how can they take this kind of thinking like that Apple does and using emotion to drive sales? And when we say this, we’re not saying trying to be sleeves, see sleazy. I mean, it kind of, because when you talk about sales, you always get that feeling like you’re trying to pull the wool over somebody’s eye or you’re trying to, you know, You know, kind of do the hustle on them and to get them to buy your, your high tier product or whatever.

[00:11:16] And that’s not true. So how can we normal people, I guess, use this emotion based marketing to drive sales.

[00:11:25] Conor Brown: Well, I think a couple of things with that. First and foremost, it is true. When we think of the salesperson, I talked about this in my presentation. The first thing that comes up, and Chris Stone mentioned it today, it’s the sleazy car salesman, right? Rubbing their hands together. Oh, I’m going to hoodwink you.

[00:11:40] I’m going to get you, right? In reality, that’s not what we’re doing. we’re, we’re content creators. We’re entrepreneurs. We’re salespeople, but we’re also a million other things, right? The car salesman, that’s all they are. They’re a salesperson. That’s, they don’t do anything else. They sell the thing. We, on the other hand, as entrepreneurs, have a million hats we have to wear, and sales is one of them.

[00:12:07] So what I like to do is say, selling without selling. So that’s sharing your experiences, sharing your expertise, and sharing the stories of the people you’ve already met. I think that’s what’s most impactful in that scenario. When you take Amy Keyes, for example, how is she going to relate to that? To find a new, client, she’s going to say, I have this much experience.

[00:12:31] I’ve worked with some of the biggest museums in the world. And here, most importantly, What my former clients and current clients are saying about how I’ve helped them. It’s all about really focusing on the clients you currently have and having them help you market down the line. Yeah, we don’t have these budgets like Apple does and those sorts of things, but we still can storytell.

[00:12:54] We still can share our experiences and our successes, and we can use the partnerships we’ve already forged, like those with our current and past clients to help us get the next client. as well.

[00:13:06] Jeff Sieh: So when you are helping the other travel, cause one of your, the jobs that you do is you help other travel agents, you know, you onboard them and get them. You know, up to speed and how to sell, how to market, that kind of stuff. So, one of the things with, you know, kind of talking about the emotions of leading your Your potential leads from or potential clients to is finding those pain points, right?

[00:13:30] Like how do they, how do, what are they struggling with? Well, how do you teach that to these travel agents? Cause you mentioned that you, you help people, you know, plan their vacation. You help them take the stress out of travel. So. You know, travel, you could say, well, I, it’s hard, you know, looking at your flight and I mean, all those kinds of things, but what is your process for identifying that like the problems your customers face and then how do you tailor your approach to solve that problem for them?

[00:13:56] Conor Brown: So a big thing that, that we see when we get new travel advisors to join our team is, you know, they’re Disney fans, they’re cruise fans, they’re, they’re theme park fans, they’re travel fans in general, and they love to travel. And they’re already helping people in some capacity, right? Like people are going to them for advice because they’re already the expert in their own circle of people.

[00:14:19] What I often see new travel advisors struggle with is, I have my perfect trip, right? How do I not put my perfect trip on someone else? They almost always default to that. Like, oh, you don’t want to do X, Y, and Z. Why don’t I want to do that? Well, I don’t like it. You should never put your own emotions like that on those of your customer or client.

[00:14:43] Right? How they want to interact with something, the trip that they want to take, the service, how they want to utilize it, it’s up to them. Your job is to guide them and help them along that path. So the way that I teach my travel advisors this is to listen more than you speak, right? Ask these leading questions that will get these answers to you so that you can help them craft their perfect vacation.

[00:15:08] So a perfect example is, hey, when you’re flying back home after this trip, What will it be deemed a success? How will you deem it a success? When you’re thinking back on it, what are the emotions you’re going to do? And often people are like, well, you know what? I’m thinking back on it. I’d love to have a few memories of us at some nice meals, us riding a few rides, us lounging by the pool, right?

[00:15:31] And just being a cohesive family, not going crazy at each other, right? That’s great. Now I have these answers and I can help craft a good product for them. Me, if it was me, right, my perfect thing would be, I’m up at dawn, I’m at the theme parks as early as possible. If I’m on a cruise, I’m up at dawn, in line for the buffet, right, Jeff Sieh, rope dropping the buffet, right?

[00:15:55] For some, that’s not what they want. So I would never take what I want and say, well, this is how you’re going to do. You’re going to wake up at 6am every single day. You’re going to, you know, go out, get there quick. No. You’re going to craft the, the product or the service to what their needs and desires are.

[00:16:13] A lot of the times it’s, it’s also just saying, Hey, you know, thanks so much for reaching out to me to help you plan this trip. What made you reach out? Right? That’s just a total leading question. And they can say, Well, I’m really struggling with what resort should I pick or I’m really struggling with I don’t know if my kid’s gonna like these rides or I don’t know if I’m gonna like this cruise ship or, or whatever it is.

[00:16:36] And then you understand that and then you can say, okay, here’s what I’m hearing. If that’s the case, here’s the answers I would give for you and help them along their way. People will tell you their pain points if you give them the opportunity to tell them So you just have to kind of craft it in that way.

[00:16:55] Jeff Sieh: so I guess one of the things would be like, I, I’m sure you get this a lot when somebody is going to book the cruise. They’re first time cruisers, they’ve never cruised before. The biggest thing they’re going to say, am I going to get seasick? Am I going to get like, do, is it, what if I’m miserable the entire trip?

[00:17:08] And so you can craft your, your response, like, listen, you know, we’ll put you in the middle of the ship. There’s hardly any movement, even when it’s really, you know, wavy out, it’s not horrible. You know, it’s, I mean, I mean, I just kind of, kind of, kind of think in my mind what you would say. To those kind of type of people.

[00:17:24] Conor Brown: I’ll send some affiliate links to Amazon for some seasick patches, right? I’ll share my experience that I’ve done. Hey, I often like, you know, a middle, floor, middle,midship patch. cabin, like you were saying, Jeff, I often find if I can look at the actual ocean, it, it helps a little bit versus being in an interior cabin.

[00:17:43] So maybe we want to upgrade a little bit more. And then I’ll also say, you know, I’ve had these other clients that have had that same fear. And here’s what they said at the end of the cruise. They didn’t feel it. You know, they, they listened to me, they put the, the seasick patches on X, Y, and Z, and they were good to go with all of that.

[00:18:01] Okay.

[00:18:28] Jeff Sieh: and he takes it from there. So. His sales process is, you know, helping those, we talked about emotion before, that pain process that they have.

[00:18:36] Like, I just wanna go, I don’t wanna have to learn how to use, you know, the stream deck or whatever that, you know, I just want to show up. So I think that’s a, a fun example too. We have a great point from, uh, Katie saying, Hey, great point. We’re so much more than selling our thing and could share these whole rounded people, the, that the services that we offer.

[00:18:57] As, as entrepreneurs. So I want to kind of get into the relationship part of the business. So how can small businesses and solopreneurs balance, building trust with making a sale? Cause it’s kind of like, you know, a lot of times we’ve all been in those situations, like at a conference or something where you go, Hey, I’m Connor Brown.

[00:19:16] Hey, did you know that I have this great travel agency? Do you, do you have any vacations coming up? I would love to be able to sell you a pack. And you’re like, Whoa, buddy, I just met you. What’s going on? So. How do you balance this building relationship versus making a sale? How soon should you, what are the rules that you found to be helpful in those types of situations?

[00:19:36] Conor Brown: It’s a balance, right, but what I’ve also often found is, is when it comes to these sorts of relationships, you can let your current clients speak for you. So a perfect example is I use Ecamm. Why do I use Ecamm? Because I know people that I trust. Use Ecamm. So when I started using it, I already loved it because I knew people had, had expressed that it’s a great product, right?

[00:20:02] It’s the same goes for, for your business, whatever that is. I often say the best marketing you can do is focus purely on your client and, make it seem like they’re the only client that you have. They’re the only client in the world. Why do you do that? Because at the end, when the process was so great.

[00:20:22] And they loved your service or product. They are going to be your evangelist and they’re going to tell everyone about you. Right? So I think relationship building, yeah, you want to close the sale quote unquote and get someone in the door, but the relationship really, really starts once they’ve actually signed on for bigger ticket products or bigger ticket services.

[00:20:45] Yeah. There’s a lot more lead time with that. I think it’s just about balancing,Your efforts with what they’re also dealing with on their end, right? It’s just about touch points, talking a little bit here. there sending them an email. You don’t want to be overly aggressive. You don’t want to put all your eggs in one basket as well.

[00:21:07] I think it’s about having it be on their terms with a little bit of, a push from you. But once you have them secured, if you focus solely on them and put all of your resources to their success, they are going to be your best marketing tools without you having to do anything at all.

[00:21:27] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think that’s a great, great point. Like, that’s the kind of selling I like is that kind of natural organic selling, selling where it’s, they know what you do and they’re finally like, you know what, I need that. Can, can you help me with that? And you’re like, sure. It’d be, you know, and then you enter into the process.

[00:21:42] I think that’s probably the best, the best sales that I’ve been sold to that kind of. Kind of organic selling. one of the, a good point from Ralph, when we were talking about, You know, waiting and listening. He says, when I was doing collections work, I did what was called the pregnant pause and the same works in sales.

[00:21:59] Sometimes you just have to shut up and listen and let people tell you what they’re thinking. That’s a great, great point, Ralph. one of the things that you talked about in momentum, and I thought it was interesting because we’ve all heard of a sales pitch, right? Like, okay, I’m getting pitched sales.

[00:22:12] You talked about a sales creed and crafting your own sales creed. So. What is a sales creed and how does it guide your interactions with clients? So talk about that a little bit.

[00:22:23] Conor Brown: So a sales creed is more so for you to get in your sales selling mentality, right? You still need an elevator pitch. You still need some sort of sales pitch, right? But the sales creed is really about. That first thing we talked about today, which was why do we fear selling ourselves? Why do we fear selling the product that we’ve created?

[00:22:46] And oftentimes it’s just with our own internal personal struggles, right? We’re not good enough. this thing is the worst. We’re our own worst critic. So the sales creed, which I came up with, it’s just kind of like almost a mantra that you can kind of say to yourself. In the mirror, before a big sales call, before a big sales pitch, before even just hopping on a Zoom call with someone, and you simply say, I’m, state your name, I am an expert at, blank, so what are you an expert at?

[00:23:13] What are you selling? What’s the service you’re getting? Those who work with me will get, say what you want them to get at the end of it. So how you want them to feel, what outcome is going to be there. And the final part, my goods and services provide honest value to my customers. So I think once you take the time to sit down and say, you know, who am I, what am I an expert at, what do I want those who work with me to get at the end, will help you craft that narrative that you can then put into a sales pitch and talk to people.

[00:23:43] But this is just something where if you believe it, It’s going to come to fruition, right? If you don’t believe it, then yeah, people aren’t going to believe that you’re an expert at all. So if you can say that, if you can come up with it, you can, uh,have a great, moment. I’ve seen Chris’s, the sales creed.

[00:24:00] Can you take me higher? Scott’s app.

[00:24:04] Jeff Sieh: That’s what we need. We need, in fact, when I, when I see Chris again, I’m going to ask him to sing that for me. He can probably do it. He’s, very, musical. we’re going to go into this next section where we’re talking about like practical selling strategies. So I want it to really, and if you have any questions, make sure that you ask them as we go through this section, because I think, you This is where we can really kind of get into the nuts and bolts and things.

[00:24:24] In fact, we have a great question from, Chris Stone. He goes, Connor, what are some creative ways to upsell additional service to your existing clients? And, you know, I kind of want to take this to the lens too, of like, without feeling sleazy. I mean, we can all put those automatic trip wires and whatever in our, you know, when we have, when we’re selling a digital course.

[00:24:44] But what are some, like, organic ways that you can be creative in upselling some other services to your existing clients?

[00:24:53] Conor Brown: It’s about going again to the end, the value. What’s the extra value they’re going to get? For me, a lot of it,what I sell when I sell vacation packages, we can add on at anything, right? These cruise lines, these theme parks, whatever it is, they, they will sell you an add on for it. Anything under the sun.

[00:25:13] So for me, it’s all about time. It’s like, Hey, I have this additional,add on that you can purchase and it’s going to save you X number of hours. Here’s why, right? I think the product that you put forward is already going to save someone a bunch of time, but more often than not, they’re just thinking about the problem that they have right now in the moment.

[00:25:34] Those add ons, I think, can just extrapolate and expand on the fact that, hey, with a couple extra add ons, you can save even more time. Time is money, x, y, z, ipso facto, right? All this stuff. So for me, it’s, it’s all about that. And then it’s still, you know, Hey, this is actually a great deal. Here’s why, if you wanted to add it on, right now.

[00:25:57] One other thing that I do when someone reaches out to me for a vacation is I will always lead with the thing that’s the most expensive first, right? And the reason for that is one, it manages expectations, right? It, someone could come up with a budget and it’s just not going to happen. If you lead with the most expensive thing first, then they’re going to understand, We got to figure stuff out and then you go into the thing that you actually think they should buy, right?

[00:26:24] That middle tier and then the bottom tier. And you explain along the way, Hey, here are the extra things you get with the middle tier versus the bottom tier. And here’s what you’d have to pay to get even more extra things at the top. So it really manages expectations, but then it also acts as a thing of maybe they were only interested in the bottom tier, but because they saw the middle tier and they’re like, wow, we get some extra things with that.

[00:26:50] I’m actually going to go for that. And it’s not that much more, money in the long run. So that’s what I do. It’s, it’s kind of like structuring, uh, your offers that, that you’re presenting in front of people as well.

[00:27:00] Jeff Sieh: So on that note, I want to kind of talk through this, because when do you make something an added tier, which is that more money they pay for these extra services, and when do you add it as a value add? So for example, what I’m thinking is, okay, You have a cruise package. You have a new cruise, new cruiser package.

[00:27:19] And so one of the things that you can upsell, you could have like, here’s a first time cruisers packing list. Add, you know, 20 bucks. You get this list and it gives you a checkout. It’s goes to Notion. You know, you can have your own little list wherever you’re at. When do you have that as an add on where it’s just like, Hey, this is extra because I’m Connor Brown and I’m an awesome travel agent.

[00:27:37] versus, Hey, I’m going to upsell you this for some more money. Do you see what I’m asking? Kind of like, where’s the, where’s the line where you kind of have to differentiate yourself? Mm

[00:27:47] Conor Brown: Absolutely, and it comes to what’s scalable versus what’s going to cost you time to do it, right? So that example, Jeff, was perfect because with that cruisers first time packet, I can make that once and it’s good for years to come, right? I would have that be a first A, a, here you go. Here’s a freebie for booking with me, right?

[00:28:08] That’s, that’s an, a value add verse. Okay. You want me to actually do a deep dive. You want me to also book your, your transportation. You want me to come up with a daily itinerary cause I was just on this ship and I’m going to craft it to your personal family with three kids and grandma’s also coming in, you’re in two different state rooms.

[00:28:28] That’s something super, super specific. That’s going to require me. I might have templates in place, but I’m going to have to customize those templates for you and you only that’s going to be an additional purchase. It’s going to save you a lot of time, right? I already have my systems in place, so it’s not going to be a huge lift for me, but it’s still extra time verse.

[00:28:49] Hey, here’s this, you know, Cruiser’s guide or whatever that I, I kind of set it and forget it. So what’s scalable versus what’s going to cost you more time. That’s when I kind of start to add in,what are you going to have to pay me more for?

[00:29:03] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. Okay. That’s good. That was great because I mean, I think that’s a thing we always kind of struggle with when we’re thinking about putting out new products or a new service tiers, like, okay, is that worth the extra, you know, add on money? Or is it just something, Hey, I’m awesome. You want to keep coming back to me because I kind of give this level of service.

[00:29:21] So that is a tough balancing act, by the way, it’s not something easy and it takes a little bit to think through. And the amazing Billy Thorpe is here, uh, Deal Billy says, I can’t believe they both left some of the best looking guys on the same screen at the same time might break the internet. He’s obviously not watching this show.

[00:29:36] I don’t know what happened or, you know. Anyway, but, Billy, thank you so much for stopping by the show today. But Chris has another great question. He goes, For someone who goes to the parks often, what is the value that you’re able to give them even if they think they’re a Disney vet? This is very applicable not just to, you know, a vacation travel planner, but it’s also like, You know, why should somebody use, Chris Stone to do the remote production when there’s another person that can do it?

[00:30:03] So, how do you kind of navigate these waters?

[00:30:07] Conor Brown: Even when they’re a veteran or they think they’re a veteran, they still only have their experience. Right? What do I have? I have the experience of all the other clients I’m already helping from years past and my own experience because I’m so close to the parks, right? So I’m always capitalizing on that.

[00:30:27] And luckily enough for me, these, Theme parks, these vacation destinations, these cruises, they’re always changing as well. So you can be a Disney vet, but if your last, you know, trip was two years ago, so much has changed in that interim. So that’s where I kind of bring that. It’s, it’s that timeliness that I’m able to help.

[00:30:46] For Chris Stone, it’s the same thing. Why should you hire Chris? Chris just got off, you know, this job with this huge company, and here’s why they loved working with him. He does, you know, the deal casters. So he knows all about, the latest tech, the latest people in the industry. He’s connected with all of these people.

[00:31:06] That’s kind of his additional incentive to book with him or, or, not book with him. You book with me, you book your vacation with me. You sign up with. Chris, I think that’s the thing. It’s, you have this breadth of knowledge where a lot of the times people just put their blinders on and for years they just work without any additional help, whatever it might be, but when you bring someone else in, they can open up your eyes to a whole bunch of different things, from their past experiences and from the experience of people that they’ve been helping and working with.

[00:31:41] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. One of the other things you talked about at Momentum that I thought was really good was, And the last one was elevator pitchers and we’ve heard about elevator pitches for a long time, even though I don’t have an elevator here in my, my office, um, talk about an elevator pitch and what makes a good elevator pitch and why should entrepreneurs have more than one prepared because one of the exercises in your, the, the workbook that we had at Momentum, you had put multiple, like, I think it was four or five different elevator pitches and you kind of had a grid that people could fill out and then you make an elevator pitch for each one.

[00:32:12] So. Talk about that, why we should have more than one just kind of standard. elevator pitch.

[00:32:18] Conor Brown: So in this sales world, you know, when you’re selling and you’re first starting with your product or your service or whatever it is, you’re going to first market to the customer. to the existing circles you already have. Those circles could be, current colleagues. They could be former colleagues. They could be businesses that you already work with in some capacity.

[00:32:38] They could be professional societies that you are a part of. You know, Local business groups, those sorts of things, but they can also be personal things. They can be friends and family, people in your neighborhood, the, your kids, little league softball team, right? Or it could be their schools, churches, other things you’re connected with, right? You have these circles and you’re going to market to them to begin with. And each circle is very, very different. The key to this is when you do start,marketing to your circles and you start working with people that are already in your circles, once you do a really good job, you treat them like they’re the only client in the world.

[00:33:17] They have a great experience with you. Then they evangelize you. They’re now telling their circles about your product or service and they’re marketing to their circles for you. You. The reason that you want to have different sales pitches is because each person in those different circles is coming to you for a different reason.

[00:33:37] You know, for me, it might be I sell a bunch of different products, right? So I need to have an elevator pitch that’s going to focus on each of those different products. So that’ll be very, very specific to the person we’re talking to. The fun thing about elevator pitch is that it’s short and succinct. The bad thing about an elevator pitch is that it’s short and succinct, right?

[00:33:59] When you cover a wide gamut and you have so many different things that you can offer to people, having one kind of elevator pitch can really put you in the corner. It can box you in. If you have different elevator pitches based on What results you help people with. Remember, focus on the results, the emotions they’re going to feel.

[00:34:19] If it’s different emotions and different results, you should have an elevator pitch for each single result that your product or service helps with. Then you can take that, you can use that for your circles. You can also tweak it for your circles because the conversation you’re having with people in your church group might be very different from the conversation you’re having with people who are your current or past colleagues.

[00:34:42] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point and something I had never thought about before. I mean, I think we all, to some extent have different tiers in our business and having this ready to go. So you’re not caught flat footed, like at a conference or, you know, just hanging out with somebody or somebody you never know who somebody’s going to introduce you to even via email and having those ready, And kind of memorize.

[00:35:02] I think that is, that was a really good takeaway. I think a lot of people got from your presentation at Momentum. one of the things that I, you know, we both met in the, you know, the heart of Disney, many moons ago. And. The reason I love Disney, and I believe it’s with you too, is one, I, I love that Walt Disney repurposed everything, like, even the stuff he sold at the World’s Fair, you know, he brought back and used at Disneyland, and had other people pay for, and his storytelling ability, like, everything in Disney, from the beginning, it was built on storytelling, and even the, the places they acquired, the companies they acquired, like Pixar, which is one of the best storytellers, I think, in the world, and then, you know, Star Wars, Lucasfilm, you know, another huge Storytelling, you know, corporation.

[00:35:48] So how do we as entrepreneurs use storytelling to make our pitch or our sales creed more engaging and authentic?

[00:35:58] Conor Brown: Yeah, so I think it’s about going back to the story structure you learned in the second grade. Which is every story has a beginning, a middle, and an end. And that’s it, right? Every story doesn’t need to have special effects. Every story doesn’t need to have, you know, an Oscar worthy script, or whatever it is.

[00:36:17] It just needs a beginning, a middle, and an end. When you take your experiences, and when you take the, things that you’ve achieved, right? You’ve taken your client’s problems and you’ve solved them. That in and of itself is a story. Client comes to me, has a problem. Here’s how we’re going to fix it, middle, end.

[00:36:38] They found a solution to their problem because I helped them with it. That’s a story. It’s as simple as that, right? I see this often in the travel advisor world through social media. So a travel advisor will go on and say, Hey, I just want to let you guys know, and they’ll be recording a story or a story or an Instagram reel or something.

[00:37:00] I had a client, there’s a family of five. They came to me. They wanted to go during the busiest time of the year to Walt Disney World, which was over Christmas and New Year’s. They were super, super stressed about all of this. They came to me because they had so much anxiety. I sat down with them. I picked the best resort, which was one close to the park so they wouldn’t have to worry about all this traffic that was going to be there.

[00:37:23] I sat down with them. I helped them build a plan so that they knew when they got into the parks, they would have to do this, this and this to have a good day. And then they just got back and sent me an email and said, the strategies that I helped work with them to build was fantastic. And they had a great trip Even with the massive crowds.

[00:37:44] So I just wanted to share that. I’m so happy that the Blank family had a great time. I hope, you know, you might learn from them and know I can help you on your trip as well. Beginning, middle and end. What’s the problem? How are you going to help them fix it when they did fix it? How did they feel at the end of it?

[00:38:02] Jeff Sieh: I think that that is something I think we, a lot of times we start and we tell our services, but we don’t have that ending or that resolution or that, you know, kind of promo of like we, because I did this, this happened for this person and I’m not saying it to brag, but this is what. You know, I’m very proud of this.

[00:38:20] What were you able to help this client with kind of a thing

[00:38:22] Conor Brown: Well, I also, I also think in, in the service based things, like, so, so Jeff with, with you, it’s, it’s a service. So you want your podcast editing, right? You want all of that to go on for as long as the podcast is in existence, right? It’s, it’s not a, a start and an end date. I think what people often overlook is that the people that they’re working with, they have a good relationship and they’ve been working with them for a good amount of time.

[00:38:49] They would love to help you grow your own business because your success is in part their success and they know that they’re going to get that additional help. So you reach out to them and you say, Hey, listen, we’ve been working together for a couple of years now. You know, remind me, when you came to me, what was the biggest struggle that you had?

[00:39:10] I’ll be like, Oh, well, I just didn’t have enough time. I couldn’t figure out this editing thing. It’s, it’s the worst. That’s great. And would you say that Sitting down each week and me helping you edit and all that thing has really alleviated that. Absolutely. In fact, I’ve gotten this amount of time back.

[00:39:25] I’ve grown my business this way and I’m able to hire more people because I have more revenue and more time to grow the business. Holy cow. You got a beginning, a middle, and an end of a partnership that you already have right now. You can take that, put it into story format, and you have a great marketing and sales tool that you can use.

[00:39:44] all

[00:39:45] Jeff Sieh: I think that’s really cool. And that, that goes, kind of goes to the next thing. In that conversation that you just kind of theoretically had, there’s a lot of what we would call active listening. So let’s talk a little bit how active listening, to pinch potential clients needs, but also when they’re done with the service or they’re, they’re very happy with the service you provided.

[00:40:05] How can we turn that into a way we can have successful sales? Because I think that a lot of times we’re moving on to the next client. We’re trying to pitching, you know, we’re trying to accumulate. And we forget some of the, the best, revenue we can get is from existing clients. So talk about active listening and how we, to develop that skill and where we should listen at, I think is one of the places that we need to do.

[00:40:30] You had a great example just a minute ago, but are there any other things that you would say about active listening?

[00:40:35] Conor Brown: You know, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, right? It’s an old adage, but it’s so, so, so true. So, you could spend a vast majority of your time to find. The next client, while at the same time, you’re neglecting the current client. If you’re neglecting the current client, well, then you’re just going to have this revolving door of you working as hard as humanly possible to get a client in just to have them leave a couple months later, and then you part and there’s no existing relationship after that, if you focus on your current client.

[00:41:13] Right? And then they sing your praises. The revolving door is just a regular door and people are walking right in and you don’t have to convince them to come in. So I think that that is a huge, huge, huge aspect of that. And when it comes to the listening aspect of it, I would say when the trip is done, when the service is complete, That’s great.

[00:41:37] Always send a follow up survey. I simply ask for a couple of things. I say, Hey, I’m always looking to improve myself. Was there anything I could have done better to help you? Was there any form of communication you would have hoped to receive for me that you didn’t? And was there anything that was confusing that I didn’t help make more clear?

[00:41:59] They answer those things, I get a treasure trove of information. You also have to be pretty humble because a lot of the times They’re going to come and you’re going to be like, well, I sent you all these emails. You clearly didn’t read them, but you can only control what you put out there. If you get more and more of those emails or followups to the survey where people are saying, you know, this one thing was confusing and you get a few of those, maybe it’s time to reevaluate how you’re going about that step.

[00:42:26] Retweak your communication structure and those sorts of things. And then you can always, of course, ask those clients that had a great time with you. For testimonial for review that you can then use in your own marketing as well. So learn from the experiences that you just went through. Be humble. And again, people are willing to help.

[00:42:45] If they had a great, great, great time with you and a great experience with your product or service, they are going to easily take five minutes out of their day to fill out that survey, to leave you a good review, and to help you find other clients as well.

[00:42:59] Jeff Sieh: we mentioned Disney before. That’s what they do. Like every experience, they hit you with those surveys.

[00:43:05] Conor Brown: time I park and they’re like, here’s nine surveys. How was the parking experience? Up to your standards. I’m like, I just parked the car. I don’t know.

[00:43:13] Jeff Sieh: And and, and it’s so weird because I think a lot of us are scared to ask for that kind of feedback and we. That’s the only way we get better. Like I do that. I try to do that every time I speak, like what was good? Don’t tell me what was good. I can easily kind of judge from audience feedback.

[00:43:28] What was good? What do I need to work on? Like what didn’t land? You know, what, what can I do better next time? And that’s hard, especially when you get up and you’re presenting or you’re, you do this big sales package and you know, you get some negative feedback back. You have to like, take it, make sure it’s valid and then like apply that.

[00:43:47] But that’s the only way. I think we can get better, but we’re, we’re really scared to do those surveys.

[00:43:51] Conor Brown: And it goes back to how we started this conversation too, of we’re our own worst critic. What we do is not good. It’s not good enough. Oh my gosh. The other person out there is so much better than me. So then when you put a survey out and then you hear some constructive criticism, you’re like, I told you so.

[00:44:08] I shouldn’t, I shouldn’t have put myself out there. I’m a fraud, right? But no. No one is perfect. Surveys can help you be a better person and be a better business owner.

[00:44:19] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think that’s great. One of the, you know, we talked about, we started this whole section talking about Disney and the storytelling. And when you, I love what you said about, you know, some storytelling has special effects, some, is very story driven, and that’s okay. Telling those stories differently.

[00:44:34] So when you said that, I immediately, I thought of Chris Stone because all of his things are special effects. Like his, the way he edits is his signature style. It stands out. It’s very, very cool. But then you also have Amy Keyes, who does an amazing podcast and she works for like Smithsonian, like the biggest museum in our country.

[00:44:56] You know, the way she can tell stories and craft those experiences are totally different, but they’re both totally valid though. I think it’s really, it’s really cool to see how storytelling can work in those different ways. What you were mentioning like special effects versus, you know, maybe just plain visual story driven content.

[00:45:13] So,

[00:45:13] Conor Brown: Exactly. It goes to what you’re trying to sell too, right? Chris Stone is a video guy, right? If he just posted a regular video, people are like, what’s the deal? If he posted it in a dark room and you couldn’t hear him, you’re like, well, this guy’s a fraud, right? But those special effects with that great storytelling, the timing, the cuts, all those things, you’re like, holy cow, this guy knows what he’s talking about.

[00:45:38] With Amy and PR in a sea of, oh my gosh, crisis communication. We have to get this going. Speed, speed, speed, speed, speed. You need a calming, nurturing partner to help you achieve your goals. And that’s the tone that Amy conducts in her podcast and in her marketing. So. You can do that too. Just know, whatever you’re putting out there, you want to give off the vibe of the product and service, how they’re going to feel at the end of working with you.

[00:46:07] Those things have to match up with that.

[00:46:09] Jeff Sieh: And speaking of storytelling, we’ve been talking about this for a long time in this section. Our friend Kevin Lively chimed in and says, just wanted to say thanks for putting this together. Kevin was on a couple, a last couple months, a month ago. Yeah, and he talked all about storytelling because Kevin, of course, is an amazing, uh, was an Imagineer at Disney.

[00:46:28] And did so much stuff, and we talked about it during the show, so if you, if you want to dive into storytelling, go check out Kevin Lively’s episode. Thank you, Kevin, for stopping by. one of the things as we kind of wrap things up, I wanted to, to touch on, and by the way, this show is always sponsored by Ecamm, which is a great tool for storytelling.

[00:46:46] You’ve heard us talk about storytelling and sales. You can do a lot of this stuff with Ecamm, so Ecamm. com forward slash Jeff, save 15 percent on your first purchase. A bunch of cool stuff, Ecamm integrates with Zoom now and just so much stuff coming down the pike in the new year. So check that out, ecamm.

[00:47:02] com forward slash Jeff. Let’s kind of wrap things up like selling with authenticity, which. You know, it has a lot to do with your confidence, but how can we personalize the sales experience for each client without over complicating the process? I don’t think we need to have a whole flowchart of like, if they say yes, go here, I mean, we kind of have to have this organic and we have a lot of, you’ve given a lot of great examples today with people who are in our audience, but how can we personalize this approach so we, Don’t seem that salesy used car person, you know, stereotype.

[00:47:37] Conor Brown: It’s just about adding value. And also listening to people, right? So the two things we’ve really talked about can help you sell authentically. When you try to help someone and it feels like you actually want to help them, you don’t just want to sell them something, people are going to think you’re authentic and are willing to work with you.

[00:47:59] So a perfect example I tell my travel advisors that I’m training is As you’re working with someone, yeah, you’re helping to book this one vacation, but you also want to start thinking about, once we’re done with this, how can I help them book their next vacation as well? How do you do that? You listen. You listen for what their hopes and desires are for, for the next trip, what they like right now, right?

[00:48:23] What their interests are, and you make notes. We have this whole CRM system, so we keep information on, on all of our clients, which is really, really helpful. I think everyone should have that. Even if your client is a sponsor or an affiliate or something like that, keep just a Google Doc or a Google Sheets thing, and always be taking notes after your meetings with them.

[00:48:46] Great tools for this, plenty of AI transcription services, like Descript, I know it’s huge here. Upload it, get the Underlord, get ChatGPT to say, Summarize this. What are they looking for in this trip? And then save those notes somewhere. How does this work in practice? All right, you meet with, with a family, family of four, two boys in the family.

[00:49:08] They absolutely love all things Marvel. Great. We’re going to send them out to Disneyland where there’s a whole Avengers Marvel campus. They’re going to love all of that there. Oh my gosh, they came back. They had a fantastic In your notes, you put huge Marvel fans. They loved Avengers Campus. Keep this in mind.

[00:49:29] Next year rolls around. You haven’t reached out to them for a while. You haven’t heard about them. Oh my gosh. Disney Cruise Line just put a Marvel day at sea experience for sale for next year. You forward them that email. Hey, I just remembered you guys absolutely loved Marvel. I saw this come, came out. I know you’ve never done a Disney cruise.

[00:49:50] This might be the perfect place to start. I was thinking about you and what your family loves. Boom. All of a sudden they are back in, right? People love to know that they’re being thought about. That’s where authenticity really, truly shines. It’s not, you know, pushing someone into it’s, I know your interests, I remembered your interests, and here’s how I’m helping continue those interests and help you find new things that you’re going to love.

[00:50:22] So, with whatever service you’re doing, think about that. Maybe someone says, Oh man, I’m, I’m really struggling with, with how to write, but, but I can’t worry about that right now. I just want to focus on creating a great podcast. Okay, Jeff, you write that down. They’re having struggle writing. They want to start writing more blog posts and email newsletters.

[00:50:43] That’s great. Let’s, let’s jot that down, but they want to focus on podcasts right now. Totally fine. A couple of years down the road, all of a sudden Jeff Sieh has a new service. Well, not only will we help you write, or edit your podcasts, we’re going to help you write your email newsletter so that you can market that.

[00:50:59] Oh my gosh. Remember that client I’ve been working with that was wanting, really struggling with writing. I now have this service for them. Hey client, I remember you struggled with this. You probably haven’t done a whole lot with it. Still, I’d be willing to help because I have this new service. Bada bing, bada boom.

[00:51:15] Wow. You actually listened and they’re really, really helpful and grateful that you reached back out to them.

[00:51:21] Jeff Sieh: So I was going to ask the, one of the questions, like the best advice for following up without feeling pushy or overbearing, and that’s exactly what you do is, is having them top of mind. In fact, Amy Keyes says this, she goes, creating relationships and staying top of mind with current and past clients makes selling so much easier.

[00:51:39] And I feel this tech troublemaker said, I still hate selling. This is the only way that I’ve been able to, I guess, quote, sell is I’m doing exactly what Connor was saying is that I just say, Hey, I’ve got this now. I know you’re interested in this. I’d love to help if I could, you know, I love that. What they call soft selling to me, that fits my personality.

[00:52:01] That’s what I’m comfortable with. And that’s what has helped my business grow is just being, remembering those touch points for clients. Like, Oh, I remember they said they’re going to start a podcast next year. Oh, it’s next year. I’m just going to send them a like, Hey, if you’re struggling, reach out to me.

[00:52:15] I got some great tips that I can help you start out with. And if you want me to do it for you, then here’s what we can do kind of a thing. And so that kind of stuff, I think takes, at least for me, lets me breathe a little bit easier when it comes to selling. Cause I feel like I’m not really selling. I’m just offering help.

[00:52:31] And, you know, they’re going to pay me for some of my time.

[00:52:34] Conor Brown: You know, all of these places that I sell vacations to, a lot of them, especially cruises, have loyalty programs, right? And what is a loyalty program? It’s simply continuing that relationship. Hey, the more times you sail with us, the more stuff we’re going to give you. We’re going to give you upgrades. We’re going to give you special discounts on board, all these things.

[00:52:56] And then you build loyalty. The only way that happens. It’s by letting the person know as they’re sailing with you, as they’re experiencing your service, that if they continue to work with you, these are the benefits that they get or these are the new services that they have. An email newsletter is, I think, the best way to do that.

[00:53:12] Even once they’re done with whatever,product or service you’ve sold to them, put them on their, your, your email newsletter just so you’re always stay top of mind for when they’re ready for the next thing. Absolutely.

[00:53:23] Jeff Sieh: We have, do you have time for one more question? Cause we have so many that came in and I wanted to bring it up there. Okay. So Tech Troublemaker, and this is a great point because so many people feel this way, says, I am so focused on making value for friends and community. The thought of charging them gets hard and I under sell my value.

[00:53:39] This is a whole nother, probably a episode and show about. How to figure out what to charge. Cause that is a struggle for a lot of people, but what would you tell tech troublemaker Connor? kind of the stuff we’ve talked about selling, how do you, how do you balance that? Like I want to provide value, but I also, I hate asking for money.

[00:53:58] So what do I do?

[00:53:59] Conor Brown: I always have time for my fellow Team Purple Ecamm Creator Camp teammates. TechTrouble is no exception to that. You’re not a charity, you’re a business, right? It’s as simple as that. If you treated everyone like, Oh, everyone gets the family discount. You’d probably go out of business. Restaurants face this all the time, right?

[00:54:21] They say, I’m going to open up my spot because I love, I love to bring people in. People come in. I know you. Can I get a free meal? Yep. Next thing you know, six months later, they’re, they’re out of business. Right. I understand. The aspect of only wanting to, to make value for, for friends and community. And if that’s what you want to do and you don’t want any monetary,out of that, then, then that’s what that is.

[00:54:47] But, but that’s a charity. That’s, that’s a hobby. That’s, that’s something like that. That’s great. If that’s what you want. But if you want money, you, you have to draw the line there. For me, it’s, it’s as simple as I don’t care, right? And what I mean by that is I don’t care if they say no, I got to eat, right?

[00:55:06] So I have to set my expectations based on that. I know it’s easy to feel bad, but once you actually start. selling to other people that aren’t your friends and family and, and they’re really, really, you know, loving what they’re getting and they’re willing to pay for that. It’s going to be that much easier to also sell to people you already know.

[00:55:29] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And I also think it’s a matter of stewardship because if you’re doing free stuff all the time, you can’t, you can’t grow and you can’t give the same level of service. I mean, for me, charging for services allows me to expand and grow and help more people because if I, if I wasn’t getting paid, I wouldn’t be able to help as many people as I, I am able to, because of just, just life.

[00:55:54] Like you have to, you have to eat, and I have to eat a lot. So, Connor Brown, this was amazing. this last part of the show, let people know about you. You talked a little bit about your services, but where can people find the amazing, unthinkable Connor Brown? What you got coming up? some other things that’s on your plate that you love to let people know about.

[00:56:13] So the floor is yours.

[00:56:15] Conor Brown: Absolutely. So if you want to learn more about me, head over to vacationkingdoms. com and follow me at vacationkingdoms across the social media. Like I said, with this, I help people go to destinations that I love and that they love. If you want to take cruise, Disney cruise, other cruise lines. Disney World Vacation, Disneyland Vacation, Universal Orlando Resort.

[00:56:35] We have a new theme park coming to Universal Orlando Resort this year in May. Epic Universe. It’s going to be awesome. If you want to go to these destinations, I would love to help you. You can reach out to me, Conor, C O N O R at vacationkingdoms. com. You can also just email me if you want to talk about sales, if you’re interested in this, whatever.

[00:56:54] Conor, C O N O R at vacationkingdoms. com. Jeff, it has been a pleasure as always.

[00:57:02] Jeff Sieh: This is a lot of fun. so we may have to do this on a regular basis. Amy Keyes says, I think we need a part two. yeah, I think discussing stuff that’s hard for entrepreneurs and a lot of people don’t want to talk about their struggle with selling. I think stuff like this is really, really cool.

[00:57:15] Dustin goes, what about people who are influencers asking for free stuff? I can only imagine what you get at Magi for people wanting to do that. I think you have to balance between what’s, if it’s going to provide value for you as a business and having somebody be your evangelist might be worth it. I think it depends on the business.

[00:57:34] I, I talk about Dustin all the time and I pay for it. So I’m just going to tell you that. But, also, don’t forget our friends over at Ecamm. They’ll sponsor the show at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. This was a great show, great topic. I agree, Chris Stone. Thank you for Connor for sticking around and answering these questions.

[00:57:50] If you have a chance to see Connor speak ever, make sure you go listen because he is a great speaker. You’re gonna learn a lot from his sessions. And with that, guys, thank you so much. It’s a new year. New exciting things are happening. I can’t wait to share them with you. Thanks to tech troublemaker, Amy Keyes, Jim Fuse, Ask Ralph, Kevin, Lively, everybody who’s got Chris Stone, everybody who stopped in.

[00:58:12] We wouldn’t be able to do the show without you. We appreciate you so much. And with that, we’ll see you next time. Bye everybody.