SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Zac Brown: The things that you’re holding onto, the things that you’re, figuring out, I think you look at and just kind of go, if I was to make a greatest hits album of everything that I’m doing, what is a must on that list? And then look at everything and just go, don’t need it. You know, really just get down to where you go, this is the thing that like if I die tomorrow and they look at everything that I’ve created, that this is the stuff that’s on the list.

[00:00:26] Jeff Sieh: Hello, folks. Welcome to Creator News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:00:29] Paul Gowder: And I’m Paul Gowder, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of the creator economy and so much more.

[00:00:35] Jeff Sieh: have you ever sat down to write something, post something, or record something and felt the itch to dump in every clever line, every great clip, every angle you come up with? Are you wondering if AI should be writing your story for you, or if there’s still something only you can bring to the table?

[00:00:51] Jeff Sieh: Maybe you’re curious what storytelling actually looks like for a creator in 2026 when everyone else is racing to the bottom on [00:01:00] volume. If that sounds familiar, you are in the right place.

[00:01:03] Paul Gowder: This week we’re joined by our friend Zac Brown, host of the Zac Brown Show, where he introduces you to old friends one story at a time. Zac just got back from Social Media Marketing World, his first time, and he’s written a book called “An Accidental Education.” And his whole thing is helping creators see their work as more than just content.

[00:01:20] Paul Gowder: It’s a world, it’s an experience, a connection. He’s going to walk us through how to tell better stories, where AI fits in, and where it never will.

[00:01:28] Jeff Sieh: So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind to get ready for this week’s episode of Creator News Live.

[00:01:35] INTRO: It’s Creator News Live, where great stories thrive. Zac Brown is here, keeping wonder alive. With a book on the way and a podcast that’s true,

[00:01:50] INTRO: he’ll

[00:01:50] INTRO: show you what AI can never quite

do.

[00:01:56] Jeff Sieh: Zac, I wanna dive right into it. but I– first I wanna ask the [00:02:00] audience.

[00:02:00] Jeff Sieh: So I want you guys to drop in the chat, what’s the thing that ever made you say, “I want to do that”? Like Zac, we’re gonna talk about, he had a really good example in his first chapter of his book. But was it a movie that inspired you to do what you do? Was it a book maybe? Maybe it was a teacher. I wanna know what inspired you to do what you do, or even go down the path.

[00:02:18] Jeff Sieh: Because when I was a kid, none of this existed, so there was no aspiring to this at all. It just kinda happened. So, I would love to know what you guys, what inspired you to do what you do. But Zac, the first chapter of your book, which you were kind enough to, give to me, to read, it opens with like the hum of the, of the VHS player as your favorite sound.

[00:02:38] Jeff Sieh: So I want you to take us back there. So what was it about that moment of pressing play that hooked you on storytelling kind of for life?

[00:02:46] Zac Brown: So we had a lot of VHS tapes that were obviously bought from the store, but we had tons that were just like the mixtape of VHS. Where you’d have like three or four movies, they were recorded on probably the lowest quality possible to get the [00:03:00] most amount of movie on there And it could be anything from Indiana Jones to Alvin and the Chipmunks to Disney classics.

[00:03:08] Zac Brown: It was anything. And, you know, you just basically look at this thing and go, “What adventure am I jumping into?” It was like going to a library, but with visuals. And so deciding as a, you know, young person to be like, “Okay, do we want to go explore and fight the Nazis with Indy or do we wanna, you know, blast off to a galaxy far, far away with, well, Indiana Jones again but in different clothes?”

[00:03:33] Zac Brown: You know? That’s what’s so very special about just being able to select the adventure, of the day.

[00:03:38] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think you and I are similar in that way because, those movies really inspired me. Now, I’m not an archaeologist or a, a space, cowboy, but, those, those were very inspiring f- for s- even just creativity. Like seeing how George Lucas created worlds, not just Star Wars, but also the Indiana Jones series Spielberg.

[00:03:57] Jeff Sieh: And so I think those, those really did affect me a lot [00:04:00] as… And then all the stuff behind the scenes. I remember getting those books where you would t- Industrial Light and Magic. Like, those were my guys. Like, I was like, “Oh, man,” I wanted to be them so bad. The stu- the cool stuff they got to do. They got to go build things and play.

[00:04:12] Jeff Sieh: so yeah, very inspiring, in just in the creativity angle.

[00:04:15] Paul Gowder: That’s cool. Yeah, in, in your book, your grandfather comes off the page like a 12-year-old trapped in an adult body, and you describe his smell and, and even talk about the Sears catalog. Oh, I remember that. I miss having a, an actual catalog in my hand. So it– does your storytelling trace back to him?

[00:04:32] Paul Gowder: And, you know, how did you get that from him? Hmm

[00:04:34] Zac Brown: So my, my mom’s dad, his name’s Vern but I always called him Grandy, very influential in my life. I mean, it is my love of cameras, my love of Star Wars, trains. We, he had a s- like a little m- a model train set and he still has it, which is awesome. but all these little aspects, I didn’t realize it, but he was kind of creating little worlds.

[00:04:54] Zac Brown: You know? He was, he was making gardens and that was his space. His train set, little world. You know, [00:05:00] modeling, little world. Cameras. It was just all these things and it was like… Just literally sitting here with you guys right now I’m kind of realizing that he was doing that as well, and just inviting me in to play in his worlds and being like, ” It can be anything we want it to be.”

[00:05:17] Zac Brown: And so it was like, because he always jokingly said that he was 12 years old forever, there was a, always a sense of play where you could be serious about what you’re doing but not take yourself too seriously, if that makes sense. and so I attribute a lot about what I do, who I am, my interests, a lot of the things that still inspire me today, I can directly trace back to him and his influence

[00:05:39] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it was something that really stood off the page to me, is that you said that he smelled of leather and graphite, which I thought was very specific. And it’s so funny, those smells that bring you back. I was talking to another guy, yesterday about how smells can bring us back, and for me, it was, Growing up, we always went to a, a place in Missouri, called Silver Dollar City, which was this [00:06:00] amusement park, but it was also kind of like back in time kind of a thing, and it ha- it has a s- the asphalt smell. So whenever I, even like somebody’s putting asphalt down or something, I smell that, I’m instantly a kid again back there.

[00:06:11] Jeff Sieh: And I think we don’t… I, I mean, those smells that really just lock us into memory, I just think it’s, it’s so cool how that, that still, matters to this day. we’ve got some other great friends who popped in. We got my pal, Eric Fisher, saying, “Great guest and great topic, and great host, too.” Well, thank you, Eric, watching over on LinkedIn.

[00:06:29] Jeff Sieh: And, uh, Raymond says, he covered a James Bond conference for his newspaper column and decided it was time to write another novel. He’s now working on his 23rd book, folks. Holy cow. and Lisa, we’re saying hello right back at you. Thank you for coming and watching today. so Zac, you went to, like, filming Star Wars model ships on a fishing line, in the Florida Panhandle humidity.

[00:06:51] Jeff Sieh: Listen, I grew up in, in Kansas. I understand sweating and playing at the same time. You have that, you know, just kind of a– It’s kind of a given. And now you run a, a podcast [00:07:00] called “The Zac Brown Show,” which is really cool, and I’ve been a, a guest on that. I was excited to be asked to do that.

[00:07:05] Jeff Sieh: But when did you realize, like, the backyard movie kid, wasn’t a phase, but it was, like, your whole career? Like, that’s what you wanted to do?

[00:07:12] Zac Brown: It’s, it’s, it’s funny, it’s– I say often that who we are, our makeup, is with us forever, it whispers to us throughout life. It’s always pointing us back to, I think, what we’re created to do. And so I was going from filming the videos in my grand, you know, father’s front yard to writing little scripts and playing with friends in my neighborhood, and then kind of carried that into my teen years into, like, youth groups and different things.

[00:07:37] Zac Brown: I was always the guy with the camera, and I just wanted to capture things and film, like, outings and, and vacations. I always had a video camera. And again, that was… traces back to Grandy. He always had one of those giant VHS camcorders. Literally took an entire VHS tape that went into it, so it was very heavy.

[00:07:56] Jeff Sieh: remember.[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Zac Brown: the trip, everybody sit down. I’d be like, “Okay, let’s sit and watch this thing that I made. You know, I’m taking you on the journey with us like you were, were there. So maybe you didn’t get to ride the ride, but I’ve got a POV, and maybe you didn’t see that late-night joke.”

[00:08:12] Zac Brown: I just love capturing those moments and bringing people in and sharing it because it’s like I think in its simplest boiled down form, it’s this is something that I experienced and enjoyed, and I want to share this with you to hopefully convey the same joy that I experienced.

[00:08:28] Paul Gowder: Uh, yeah, I can relate to that. I did the same thing with my Star Wars toys, you know, setting them up in scenes, taking the pictures, trying to make them look like the movie. I love that. yeah, and so your book’s called “The Accidental Education.” So can you tell some of the, those accidental lessons, you know, the, what’s that most accidental lesson that you’ve learned over time?

[00:08:43] Zac Brown: So about, there was a season of life where I had some free time in my schedule, and I really wanted to be a Disney Imagineer. And so I took up a volunteering job at a museum that we had in my hometown. It’s the National Museum of Naval Aviation, and it’s really great. I mean, [00:09:00] it’s airplanes everywhere.

[00:09:01] Zac Brown: It’s free. Grew up going, and so I enjoyed it. And I thought maybe I could get some hands-on experience on how to build exhibits or attractions. This could be some sort of education. And I eventually ended up in the exhibits, department, and we were working on a Coast Guard exhibit. I knew nothing about the Coast Guard.

[00:09:19] Zac Brown: I had never built an exhibit before. I was– didn’t grow up military, but I was like, “You know what? I’m here, I’m learning, and I’m just gonna show up.” The only reason that I was in the room was because at the time I was working at a news station, and so the guys there just assumed that I knew what I was doing.

[00:09:34] Zac Brown: And so I just kept showing up. And we were editing this one video, and the guy who was kind of like my point of contact, he kept using this phrase over and over. He would go, ” I like this shot. It really has this high speed, low drag.” And I would go, “Yeah.” And I had no idea what that

[00:09:50] Zac Brown: meant. And then later he would go, “Yeah, I like this shot.

[00:09:52] Zac Brown: It really gives it that high speed, low drag.” And I’m like, “Yeah.” And after about like two, three weeks, I finally said, “Merv, I have no idea what that means. You keep [00:10:00] saying it, and I just gotta be honest, I don’t know what that means.” And he, he laughs and he said, ” I don’t either. I heard it somewhere and I thought it sounded cool, and I figured because you worked in the news and do production work that you knew what it meant.”

[00:10:13] Zac Brown: And so neither of us knew what it meant, but we were using it. It suddenly became part of our like, just everyday vernacular there in the exhibit shop. We finally do this presentation for the guy who’s over the museum, and again, I’m not a military kid. I’m not disrespectful, but the whole like ranking thing doesn’t mean anything in my world.

[00:10:34] Zac Brown: And this very high-up gentleman comes in to watch our presentation for this exhibit, and we play the video that we’ve edited and he’s sitting looking at it. He goes, “I really am enjoying this.” I don’t know why I said it, but I had the boldness in the moment and said, “Yes, sir, we feel it really has the high speed, low drag.”

[00:10:50] Zac Brown: Merv turns and looks at me as if, “No, you did not.” And there’s a pause and the guy goes Yeah, I like that. We looked at each other like, “No way.” And it [00:11:00] just became this phrase of, “It has the stuff.” And so from that moment, I decided that I never wanna have a high speed, low drag moment. If I don’t know, I’m just gonna be honest and say, “Could you please tell me what that– You know, about that?”

[00:11:14] Zac Brown: Or, “I don’t know who that person is.” I’ve– It helped me get better at just being honest and saying, “I don’t know. Help me learn.”

[00:11:21] Jeff Sieh: That is such a key piece of advice because I think when people start out or when they’re, you know… I remember when I first started business, I was so scared that I was gonna give away everything and they would steal it, and I wouldn’t have any of my, you know, secret sauce or whatever. And that’s, you know, that’s one of those things too, like, You don’t have to always be the smartest person in the room. Sometimes it’s, it– I’m never the smartest person in the room. Paul will attest to that, ’cause when I’m usually with Paul and he’s the smartest person in the room. but, you know, y- I think taking the time and understanding, like, you don’t have it all together, and people don’t expect you to all the time, and it’s okay to ask those questions, I think is part of growth, and I’m, I’m really glad that you shared that, uh, with us today.

[00:11:57] Jeff Sieh: But, one of the things I wanted to give a shout-out to [00:12:00] Stephanie Garcia. We have a lot of people watching over on LinkedIn today, so she loves today’s topic, so thanks, Stephanie, for tuning in. I wanna go circle back real quick ’cause Paul mentioned his Star Wars toys. Now, Paul, I wanna know, did you have as many Star Wars toys as a kid as you do now?

[00:12:14] Jeff Sieh: Because, I mean, I’ve seen pictures of his collection. It’s pretty

[00:12:17] Zac Brown: It’s impressive.

[00:12:18] Jeff Sieh: you have a…

[00:12:18] Paul Gowder: N-no. I had a good number of figures. I, i-i-in college I went through and actually finished the, the entire vintage collection, uh, figures. They all, they all sit right here. no, I didn’t have, it, it, I didn’t have a whole lot. I had some good stuff. I had some of the early, early stuff, which is really cool ’cause that stuff’s kinda crazy.

[00:12:37] Paul Gowder: Now you got… it’s a joke in my family though, the one toy that I wanted so bad, and I always joke that my parents never got it for me. Um, they got everything I wanted, but they d- they never got me the, the AT-AT, the AT-AT, right? and I, I did end up getting that when I started, you know, collecting for real, but that’s kind of like a joke in, that the AT-AT is the thing in our family that’s, like the thing I never got.

[00:12:57] Zac Brown: Hmm.

[00:12:58] Jeff Sieh: yes. My, my next door neighbor [00:13:00] had the Death Star, so we’d

[00:13:01] Zac Brown: Ooh.

[00:13:01] Jeff Sieh: go over there and play with the Death Star play set. That was– And Dagobah, that was the other one, ’cause it had quicksand. Anyway, okay. Little nerdy, right there. Sorry. so Kira says, “I love that I don’t know are such powerful and positive words.”

[00:13:13] Jeff Sieh: Yes, I totally agree. and it took me a long time to figure that out, so I am a slow learner, but I eventually get it. So Zac, the, one of the things I wanted to talk about is the, the chapter that you sent me kind of centers on a 10-minute talk by your friend Dave Flatten, and it, and it was about killing your darlings, but talk about y- you said two decades later you can still hear his voice. Why do you think that lesson out of all of them is the one that wouldn’t let go in your mind, that was– it kept, like, surfacing?

[00:13:43] Zac Brown: So Dave was just one of those guys that he was a wealth of knowledge and could communicate in a way that didn’t make you feel that he was above you. He was right there with you just sharing what he knew. we lost Dave a few years ago, and he was just a super amazing guy, and I’m just thankful for the wisdom that, you know, he passed on.[00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Zac Brown: But he said, you know, “Kill your darlings,” and it’s a quote by a man whose name escapes me at the moment. And it’s basically not everything needs to stay in the final project. You might film for 45 minutes and love every bit of it, but is your audience going to be engaged? Is there a point when the energy drops?

[00:14:18] Zac Brown: Is there a point when you’re like, “This really isn’t moving the story forward. This is just causing drag.” You know, cut out the fat. You’re like, “Can I get this down to from 45 to a tidy 20?” initially you’re like, “But that joke was good,” or, “That line was great. That shot, oh, I worked so hard on that.” But is it serving your audience?

[00:14:35] Zac Brown: Is it ultimately making the final product just a wow package? And if it’s not, kill your darlings. You know, you have to go through with a critical eye. Step away from it after you’ve been in it for a minute. You know, take a lap, get a coffee, go s- you know, watch a movie and come back. look at it with fresh eyes and decide, “You know what?

[00:14:55] Zac Brown: That can go.” Sometimes it’s shaving two seconds off of a video or [00:15:00] editing out an entire paragraph from a story that you’re like, “I like this thing,” but it doesn’t actually lend itself to communicating the main point. And that’s hard, but the more that you do it, the better you’ll get at just kind of letting down honestly your pride and sacrificing your preference for the ultimate product.

[00:15:19] Jeff Sieh: Mm. That is so good. You know, I started doing editing back when, like, DVDs started coming out with the extra features, and you would get, like, the extra things, and, like, I remember watching Robert Rodriguez, some of his stuff, and he’d, he’d… It was amazing ’cause he would put, like, recipes and all sorts of crazy stuff on his extra feature, or how he made it, ’cause he was, like, a, kind of a indie, filmmaker.

[00:15:37] Jeff Sieh: And you learn so much from those, uh, you know, all the stuff that didn’t make the cut, and they show in those ex- special features. Like, oh my gosh, like, they really are ruthless when it comes to getting it down and do it in front of test audiences and all that kind of stuff, you know, the movies do. But it was really eye-opening to me seeing how much stuff, and it was good stuff.

[00:15:57] Jeff Sieh: Like, it was, like, moving the story along, and that was a great scene [00:16:00] between these two characters. And you’re like, “Okay, I see what they did there.” And so I think that kill your darlings thing is the number one thing people who are creating stories online don’t do, and they need to start. I think that’s probably the number one thing, and I’m so glad you brought it up today, so.

[00:16:15] Jeff Sieh: go ahead, Paul. You had another question?

[00:16:16] Paul Gowder: Yeah. I wanna talk a little bit more about editing, ’cause I– it is a t- really tough thing to do, and whether it’s, you know, your podcast or video or written, y-you talk about editing isn’t just trimming footage, you’re shaping the emotion. So talk about that storytelling arc. You know, how, how do you tell creators to, to build for emotion?

[00:16:34] Zac Brown: So it’s telling a story. You know, it– there’s a way that you can frame a story that just grabs people, and there’s a way that you could be building momentum, and all of a sudden you’re like, “Oh, wait, I forgot to tell you a thing. Gotta go back,” and you lost that momentum, and you’ve not kind of perfected the flow.

[00:16:47] Zac Brown: I’m a musician, and so when I edit video, I edit musically. Like, I look at the beat, I find the rhythm of it, and there’s something about it that subliminally we as humans connect with, and it creates this emotion where you’re like, man, [00:17:00] like there’s something about like my heart rate is getting locked in with the cuts as they’re right in time with the music.

[00:17:05] Zac Brown: It’s a little bit trickier when it comes to the written word because you can’t rely on those visuals and the music timing. It has to be this pacing. So you write it, and then you read it out loud. So you let it flow so your ears can resonate with it. So you look and go, this statement flows and that you know, that period right there, like, ooh, stuck the landing.

[00:17:24] Zac Brown: Or you kind of go, I added this sentence in there and just kind of like, I don’t know how I feel about that at the end. You know? What was the point of that? So does it make me feel confused or is it really these words I’m leaning in and somebody goes, “Oh, you had me.” You know, you can do those hard pivots.

[00:17:39] Zac Brown: You know, our friend Jeremy Stein wrote a book, and he was sharing a very happy moment, immediately shifts into something very tragic, and it’s like this whiplash, and that’s genius because it’s creating this emotion. It’s drawing you in one way and all of a sudden pivots to something else. You want to think about the journey that you’re taking the viewer, the listener, you know, on, and what are you [00:18:00] wanting them to feel?

[00:18:00] Zac Brown: That is the question that you have to constantly be asking. What do I want them to feel when they are finished with this?

[00:18:06] Jeff Sieh: things you mentioned in, the ch- the, the chapter that you sent was the Scary Mary clip. So first of all, tell people what the Scary Mary clip is, and then what was it about that that kind of flipped the switch for you when you first saw

[00:18:20] Zac Brown: Scary Mary clip is a very old, very classic, I think one of, you know, a it went viral video that was on YouTube. might have even predated YouTube. and someone had taken clips from the movie Mary Poppins that is a joyous and happy family film, and they recut it with some effects and music that makes it look like the most terrifying horror film, and it’s brilliant.

[00:18:44] Zac Brown: You watch it smiling because you know the context and how they took it and reshaped it into something completely different I saw the potential of editing. I was like, wow, somebody could take something that usually brings joy and brings happy tears [00:19:00] and made me go, ” That is terrifying. I don’t wanna watch that in the dark.

[00:19:04] Zac Brown: What on earth?” Like, the lovely Julie Andrews, now I don’t wanna look in the eye.

[00:19:09] Jeff Sieh: Right

[00:19:10] Zac Brown: It’s so good.

[00:19:11] Jeff Sieh: So now everybody’s gonna be googling Scary Mary, to try to find that clip now. Yeah, so, that is really, really good. So, uh, really quick before we move on to the next section, I wanted to ask you, do you have any resources for… We’ve been talking about storytelling and how you went from, like, a VHS kid to a storyteller.

[00:19:25] Jeff Sieh: But are there any resources that you point people to? Like, “You need to read this book,” or, “You need to, like, watch Scary Mary and see how they edited it.” I mean, for me, StoryBrand was kind of, they always point people to when in business, like, go read that book. It helps you frame the story and, and re- really good stuff.

[00:19:40] Jeff Sieh: Are there any other ones that you recommend to people who are wanting to be a better and more creative storyteller?

[00:19:45] Zac Brown: As far as books, I would say find people that inspire you and read their biography or autobiography, because you’ll see what they went through and kind of their influences, and it really helps you get in their head and see how they’re processing, [00:20:00] and then you can kind of shift and look at your own story, and it just inspires you to see, like, okay, that’s what George Lucas was going through.

[00:20:06] Zac Brown: That’s what Dr. Seuss was going through. That’s what Dave Grohl was going through. It takes you in these places. But as far as something that I would say go watch this, go watch the “Light & Magic” series on Disney+ of how they created, because they are scrappy, they are young, they– n-no rules. They’re literally inventing things to get their ideas from here to the world.

[00:20:29] Zac Brown: Just consume things from other creators, not to steal, but to inspire. The hard part of the story is when you go, “Yeah, like, I can get through this too.” It just, it– I’m telling you, there’s something about watching the creative process and other people go through that will stir that within yourself and inspire you, and it will help you go, ” I know what I need to do now.”

[00:20:49] Zac Brown: It’s the coolest thing ever. I don’t know how to explain it, but if you are wanting to create, go get as much as you can from other creators and watch how they did it. It will change your game.

[00:20:58] Jeff Sieh: And I say also [00:21:00] go outside of your niche, and like, I like to read a bunch of different things, ’cause you can… That’s where I think creative, creativity comes, is pulling things together and creating something new. But I highly recommend, that is, that series is so good, and I actually bought their 50th anniversary hard coffee table book because it’s just, it was so good.

[00:21:18] Jeff Sieh: But, the cool thing that I remember the most out of all that series, the Light & Magic is that when they weren’t working on a project, they were going into and painting a set or they were modeling something. They were all cross-disciplinary and, and doing things to get the project finished, right?

[00:21:34] Jeff Sieh: They were like, “Hey, we’re, we don’t know what we’re doing. We’re making this up as we go along.” And th- the, the sum of all those parts was just amazing. So- Yeah, it’s a great series. Thanks for bringing that up. That’s a, that’s a great, one to get. So, really quickly, Raymond says, “I like killing your darlings.

[00:21:50] Jeff Sieh: Learned that when they told me, uh, as a newspaper column they could only have 600 words.” Like, yeah, you gotta kill your darlings that way. And then and Lisa [00:22:00] says, ’cause she read your first chapter, she goes, “I could hear you talking when I was reading the preview chapter. It was like, we were in the same room and you were just telling me a story.

[00:22:07] Jeff Sieh: Can’t wait to read the rest.” So Zac, where… Right now I’ll just give you a little plug. Where can the people go to find that first chapter of your book? I know you have a, a special landing page for that. Where can they go?

[00:22:16] Zac Brown: Yeah, you could DM me through socials and I will send you the link. Join my newsletter. I need to get a much better way of just having a place where you can

[00:22:24] Zac Brown: go click

[00:22:24] Jeff Sieh: you had a landing page. I thought you had

[00:22:25] Zac Brown: I do have a landing page, but I th- I need to, like, send a link out and just kind of have it.

[00:22:29] Jeff Sieh: Okay, Yeah,

[00:22:30] Zac Brown: Yeah, it’s on my Facebook, so just message me.

[00:22:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, @zackbrowncreative. get that first chapter. You’ll really, really like it. And then, Rich Graham says, ” That’s me googling Scary Mary.” So he’s right now going… yeah, exactly. So really quick,gonna do a word from our sponsor because they are not scary, they’re the amazing people over at Ecamm.

[00:22:47] Jeff Sieh: So, uh, here’s a word from our sponsor.

[00:22:48] Speaker: When your show deserves the very best, Ecamm stands above the rest. [00:23:00] Ecamm.com/jeff, won’t you see? Broadcasting brilliance, easy as can

be.

[00:23:09] Jeff Sieh: Once again, thanks to our amazing folks over at Ecamm for sponsoring this show.

[00:23:14] Jeff Sieh: Anyway, we’re talking about AI, so I want you guys to drop in the comments, where do you use AI most in your creative workflow? Is it coming up with ideas? Is it editing, outreach, or I’m not using it at all?

[00:23:25] Jeff Sieh: So let me know in the comments below how you’re using AI the most in your creative workflow. Ideas, editing, outreach, or I don’t want even to hear another word about AI, in my lifetime, which is probably not gonna happen. But you just got back, Zac, from, Social Media Marketing World, which I– it was your first one, and I wanted to get your kind of first take of it.

[00:23:44] Jeff Sieh: And I know they’re, they talked a lot about AI and storytelling, and it’s a conversation everybody’s talking about this year. So walking in at Social Media Marketing World, what were you expecting and what actually happened? There’s probably two different things.

[00:23:55] Zac Brown: It’s, it’s funny that you ask that. the– I walked in and met up with [00:24:00] some friends of ours, and they were sitting at a table with a bunch of people that I didn’t know, and I’m a very, I think I’m an introverted extrovert. And so the initial moment at, like, a gathering, I’m kinda like, “I don’t know who these people are and I’m just gonna sit and listen for a little bit.”

[00:24:13] Zac Brown: And this lady looks across the table at me and she goes, “So what do you hope to get out of this conference?” was like, “Lady, I’ve been– I’ve, I just got off a five-hour flight. I’ve been in this place for 45 minutes. I don’t know where I am. Just give me a sec,” you know? But I went, ” You know, I honestly don’t know, but oftentimes I meet people and what I’m gonna get out of it kind of finds me.”

[00:24:33] Zac Brown: And it was really cool because I felt that everybody was so approachable, and the relationships were just f- happening. Like, people were just coming up and they were very friendly, and I was making connections and future podcast guests and all this stuff. It was great. And oftentimes sitting talking with them, you know, to say, like, to answer the question of what was I hoping to get, what did I get?

[00:24:52] Zac Brown: I was hoping to get connections, and I did. And what, what did I not expect that I got? It was just the amount of takeaways from something that somebody would [00:25:00] say that would spark an idea for something else. So I’m just taking notes, just voraciously just going, “Oh my gosh, they– I know they said this, but that made me think of this over here.”

[00:25:10] Zac Brown: So it was, it was just the like… It, it was like sparks hitting dry kindling and all of a sudden going like, “Ooh,” like that meant for this, but all of a sudden this happened. And so I have a action item list, you know, like a CVS receipt, and I am just so excited to sit and start going through all these things.

[00:25:26] Zac Brown: Again, the, the amazing people that I met were wonderful, but the stuff that they might say just kind of in passing, I’m like, “Ooh, I need to chase that down.” So I’m very, I’m very, um, rejuvenated and excited from coming out of this

[00:25:39] Zac Brown: conference.

[00:25:40] Paul Gowder: the cool thing about conferences is just being in the room with some of those folks and, and having the opportunity to have those conversations. Yeah, I think that is the power of these things. So let… I’ll put you on the spot. Like, was there any specific conversations that really changed how you’re gonna do your show or launch your book?

[00:25:55] Paul Gowder: What’s some takeaways that you took, took home?

[00:25:57] Zac Brown: I think something that really stuck with me, there’s a [00:26:00] guy, by the name of Cliff Ravenscraft. He’s been podcasting for as long as Moses has been around and was a super, super nice guy. And I told him, I said, “I often find myself sitting at tables with people that are out of my depth, out of my league, but I get to just meet them and, and hear from them and it’s very special.”

[00:26:18] Zac Brown: And he looks me in the eye and he said, “I don’t ever wanna hear you say that again.” And I said, “What?” And he’s like, “You are never out of your league when you step into a room. You are never out of your depth when you’re sitting at a table.” He said, “You bring value. You have experiences that the other people don’t, and you are just as valuable to that space.”

[00:26:33] Zac Brown: He said, “You are there for a purpose.” So he’s like, ” do not think of yourself as less than,” ‘ cause he said, “Then you won’t be open to conversations. You won’t bring yourself to that place fully.” So he goes, “Just show up and bring your authentic self.” And he’s like, “I promise you will get so much more out of every single conversation.”

[00:26:48] Zac Brown: And I was like, man, that hit me so hard because I was like, I didn’t realize that I was doing it. You know, I was kind of looking at it from a place of humility going, “I don’t know who they are, but I’m here learning.” He was like, [00:27:00] “Your words create worlds, so don’t say to yourself, ‘I don’t belong here.'” He said, “Say to yourself that I have just as much value as they do.

[00:27:08] Zac Brown: It’s just different.” And that changed the trajectory of that conference for me. Now I wasn’t showing up seeing the little speaker, you know, denotation on their name tag and going, ” Ooh,” you know. I, I was like, “Neat. I might see them say something later, but also I c- I have the opportunity to sit and talk with them just the same as I would anybody else.”

[00:27:26] Zac Brown: So that conversation alone, I think it really just put me at ease. It kind of lowered some walls that I was putting up for myself and was just approaching it go– not in a cocky way, but just kind of go, ” They’re people too,”

[00:27:39] Zac Brown: you know? It really changed that for me.

[00:27:41] Paul Gowder: That’s hard though. That, that is hard. I mean, we, we hang out with Lou, and Lou brings some big names around us sometimes, and, you know, I get fanboy some and it, it, that is hard to do, so that’s a

[00:27:52] Paul Gowder: great takeaway.

[00:27:53] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. If I hear Lou talk about Kevin Feige one more time, I’m just gonna… Anyway, just kidding. Hopefully he’s watching.

[00:27:59] Zac Brown: Well, [00:28:00] it’s funny, Paul, I, I thought of you. You know, we were sitting at, at dinner one of the nights after, the, the sessions or whatever, and we’re just back at the hotel sitting in the lobby getting some food. And we’re talking, and I see Lou kind of– he’s– We’re facing each other, so he sees the person behind me and he waves.

[00:28:14] Zac Brown: He goes, “Oh, hi.” And, I turn around and Pat Flynn walks up, and they’re just talking or whatever. And he goes, he goes, “Hey.” He goes, “Come here. I want y- I want you to meet my friends.” And he’s like, “Zac, this is Pat Flynn.” And not in, like, a cocky or flippant way, I just stood up, I said, “Hey, man, it’s really nice to meet you.”

[00:28:27] Zac Brown: I said, “I, I appreciate what you do.” And he’s like, “Oh, nice to meet you, too.” But it– I, I didn’t go into this going, “This is Pat Flynn.” I was like, ” He’s a dude who looks at Pokemon cards. He does it very well.” But I just still was like, “That’s cool.” And so I stood up, I was like, “Hey, it’s super nice to meet you.” It was– It all kind of– Within myself I was like, ” Well, that was different and very cool.”

[00:28:45] Paul Gowder: Yeah.

[00:28:47] Jeff Sieh: is one of the nicest… He is exactly the same person on and off the screen. Super nice guy. Like, just a, a really cool dude, so. we’ve got some great, comments from the amazing chat room. Dustin goes, “Where am I using AI?” Of course, [00:29:00] Dustin is the founder and creator of Magai.

[00:29:02] Jeff Sieh: being a little tongue in cheek there. And Chandler’s saying, “I use AI to build a deck slideshow of different vehicles that my store sells so that I could have or play on my loop in our showroom.” That is very, very cool. That’s a great, way to use it. and,Michelle says, Brainstorming, helping with content.”

[00:29:17] Jeff Sieh: And Raymond, of course, says, “Basic research.” He’s never ever gonna have AI write his novels for him, but basic research is fine, so thank you for that. and Michelle also says, “Wow, this is such a great takeaway. You are not less than. I needed to hear that today.” So that’s, that’s why we do the show right there, is because, of just those little takeaways.

[00:29:35] Jeff Sieh: And even Rich said, “Solid advice. I often think I’m out of my league.” And Rich, I know you, and you are not. gosh, man, I wish… If there’s one thing we could ch- you know, in Spider-Man, how everybody forgets that he’s Spider-Man. I wish I could make everybody forget that, that they’re not who, you know, what God created them to be.

[00:29:51] Jeff Sieh: I mean, I just, just I know it’s, everybody suffers through that imposter syndrome. I have done it. Paul and I have talked about it before. but man, once you start being okay and, [00:30:00] and you are deserved to be in that room, it does make a huge difference. So, thank you guys for all your transparency.

[00:30:04] Paul Gowder: Yeah, just yesterday Rich taught me a, a tip in- inside a kit that I didn’t know, so yeah. Rich, man, you, you have a lot of

[00:30:12] Paul Gowder: value. Yeah. And we got Kevin even saying AI, he uses it for creative pitches, researches, pre-production, not so much in editing. He enjoys editing. “I need AI to help me streamline post-process. Some of my clients are not comfortable using visual AI.” Yep, that’s, a growing concern I see, more and more of how people are using it, I think as a tool and using it to actually do some things.

[00:30:34] Jeff Sieh: And we’ll c- we’ll cover that in another show. But anyway, we’re talking about storytelling and how to use AI in that way. what do you think you know, your whole thing is helping creators see their work as more than content, and you mentioned it’s a world, it’s experience, it’s a connection.

[00:30:47] Jeff Sieh: So how do you really build that world feeling for, like, a podcast or a personal brand? Because it, storytelling is, is what I think personal branding actually is So how do you do that, Zac? Like that world, that [00:31:00] world-building that you talk about?

[00:31:01] Zac Brown: So I think it all comes back to play, as simple and silly as that sounds. You step back and go, ” I’m creating something, so that means that I get to pick the rules.” You know, George Lucas decided that in his world there are humanoids, there are robots that talk, and there are giant walking carpets that can rip your arms off if you beat them at holochess.

[00:31:20] Zac Brown: It makes no sense in any other context, but he decided that that’s his rules, And so I think if you decide, “This is what I wanna do. These are the rules that I want to use,” you’re already world-building. You’ve not started telling story. You’ve not, told people what you wanna do, but you’ve already started with a foundation of these are the rules of the sandbox.

[00:31:40] Zac Brown: This is our rules of pretend. Every kid in playing pretend runs around and, you know, swipes an arm and goes, “Okay, you lost an arm. You gotta put it behind your back now. You can’t use that one.” It’s silly, and then the k- other kid goes, “Okay.” That’s what we all get to do when we create things. So decide on what you want it to be, and then start pulling from who you are, the things that make up, your own [00:32:00] story, your things that you want to pull in and draw from.

[00:32:02] Zac Brown: So when you create that world, it’s already intrinsic to you. You know it. You keep pulling from yourself. You’re showing up authentically. It’s who you’re made to be. ‘ You know, I tell people when they come on my show, they’re like, “Do I need to do any research?” I said, “You’ve lived your whole life.

[00:32:14] Zac Brown: You’ve already done the research.” You’re just pulling from your experiences. You already know it. So when you’re telling stories, it’s like, you know, Paul’s like, “I’m gonna share emails and connect with people.” He’s pulling from his own thing and sharing his own story. He doesn’t have to fabricate that.

[00:32:27] Zac Brown: That’s his world. You’re bringing your audience into that world, and they’re kind of hearing repeating themes. And again, like the repeating themes of the Force and Wookiees and droids, and we’re like, “Yeah, yeah, we get it,” because we’ve seen that multiple times, so we know that that’s how that works. That’s why sequel movies are so much more easy to watch than the first one.

[00:32:44] Zac Brown: Rules are already established in the first movie. Second movie, we get the rules. Now we can really expand the story. Second movies are always so much easier to watch and make. So when you’re doing that with what you’re creating, know what you wanna do and where you wanna go. You gotta take some time to set it up, but then [00:33:00] you’re inviting your audience into that.

[00:33:01] Zac Brown: If it’s like Michelle and you’re telling people about Key West, how do you wanna tell them about Key West? Anybody can talk about Key West, but how do you wanna frame it? How do you want them to feel? She’s setting her rules and explaining it. She’s inviting them into the world of Key West through her eyes, if that makes

[00:33:16] Jeff Sieh: Oh, yeah, totally.

[00:33:17] Paul Gowder: yeah, and doing a great job at it. Y’all should go look at her social. She’s– Her engagement’s through the roof. now Zac, in your workflow, where are you letting AI in, and where are you kind of drawing the line and not letting it

[00:33:30] Zac Brown: So I, I think where, where you draw the line, whether you choose to or not, I, I, I think you get– Some people get weird and tell them all it’s all your personal information. You know, like, “I’m, I’ve got this bump on my arm. Should I have that…” Like, that’s weird. Don’t be telling your AI that stuff. But I think I did this thing, and it has changed my entire AI thing.

[00:33:49] Zac Brown: I named my bot Max after Max Headroom, and we had a very long conversation. I asked him to interview me, 25 questions, one at a time, These questions are going to dictate future [00:34:00] answers so he knows me personally, kind of gets inside my head, how I think, what I care about. This bot started asking me questions about my philosophy on life, my hopes, my dreams, my internal fears, all these things.

[00:34:13] Zac Brown: So we go through this whole deal, and I just talked into my phone. I walked around my house and just had this long stream of conscious. I was not editing. I was just flowing. I was giving a lot of you knows and likes, just like I would a person. And then at the end of it, it goes, ” Okay, I’ve taken all this, and now I’ve built a brand compass, and now we’re gonna run all of our decisions through this because this is who you are at your core, your desires, your outcomes.”

[00:34:37] Zac Brown: The things that I wasn’t able to put words to, it was helping me r- define. Things that I’ve appreciated and enjoyed and desired since I was five years old, things that have shifted in the last, you know, two, three years. I kind of built this external brain of myself, and so now I allow that to kind of help me inform my decisions.

[00:34:57] Zac Brown: I don’t have to take them, but it’s shifting the way [00:35:00] my AI works for me and my projects because I gave it what I want it to do. And so I think that has become very helpful. The answers and responses that I’m getting are not the simple, “You’re right, Zac. That’s a great answer.” It’s actually going, “This is very on brand to what you wanna do,” or it’d go, “Actually, I would think you would wanna do this if this is the direction you’re wanting to go.

[00:35:22] Zac Brown: We need to tow this line.” I’m like, “You know what? You’re right. I don’t need to do this thing.” That does hold to the brand compass. It has been, revolutionary in my workflow and processes.

[00:35:34] Jeff Sieh: really quick, there’s a training coming about, uh, on this by the way, but I’ve done the same sort of thing. I have like– I had the interview and I’ve spent a couple hours having it interview me and it… I have a constitution, I have one about my business, I have one about, constitution is like who I am, like you were saying that you have done, like your brand compass kind of thing.

[00:35:49] Jeff Sieh: I also have one for design, how I do my design stuff. And so having these multiple documents that you can move between different, places is, is key ’cause, you know, [00:36:00] Claude’s good one week and then it’s ChatGPT the next. And so being able to switch between them really makes a big difference.

[00:36:05] Jeff Sieh: really quick, we have some great comments in the, comment section. We have Kira saying, “The creatives I admire the most never really grew up. Going back to play is great advice.” And Dustin, this is good, he like giving you some, some props. The AI master himself, says, ” One at a time questions is a pro tip. Don’t miss that.” And then Lawrence says, “Be right back. I have to go have my AI interview me immediately.” That is such an interesting idea and exercise. I love it when we have stuff that AI helps us do. Okay, I’m gonna, I’m gonna do th- I, I gotta do this, so I’m gonna get nerdy again really quick. So…

[00:36:36] Speaker 4: Jeff’s getting his nerd on. It’s a nerd alert All right. So- … one of

[00:36:41] Speaker 5: the

[00:36:43] Jeff Sieh: one of the things that I have, I… This is s- ’cause you guys know I love to read, and I’ve been reading for a long time, but one of the things is I, I had this story that I read as a kid, and this is, this influenced my creativity a lot, Zac, so you’ll get this. It was this book series, and I could not remember the book.

[00:36:58] Jeff Sieh: I knew it was about a [00:37:00] robot. he got a robot brother, and something about he charged himself through the, like his belly button, and there was something about a swimming pool in one of the stories, like they fell in or something. And I’m like, “I have been trying to find this book series forever.

[00:37:11] Jeff Sieh: I can’t remember what it is.” Finally, I was able to ask AI, and it gave me the book, and it’s, was, uh, was “My Robot Buddy,” and there was like four series and I ordered them all. They’re all out of print, but I got them all from Thrift Books for like 40 bucks. AI wins. So super nerdy. that was something that I j- I mean, I love finding stuff like that, real, real world stuff.

[00:37:32] Jeff Sieh: But anyway. so, really quick, let’s go into our last section because I want to get into this. When you were talking about killing your darling. So I wanted to ask the audience for wherever they’re watching from to just drop it down in the chat, like what’s a darling you need to kill in your business or in your content this week?

[00:37:48] Jeff Sieh: Like one word, drop it in the chat. What do you need to kill on killing your, your darling? So Zac, if you could go back to that workshop kid sitting in front of that MacBook Pro with no right-click button, what [00:38:00] is the one thing you would tell him about the next 20 years?

[00:38:03] Zac Brown: Well, if it’s– if we’re based on the “Back to the Future” rules, I can’t really tell him all that much. but I would tell him, ” Be more curious. Keep asking questions.” You know, you’re not gonna learn if you don’t ask. Just don’t be intimidated, don’t be ashamed to not– to say, “I don’t know.” And I think when you’re more curious, you learn, you get excited about things, you grow.

[00:38:25] Zac Brown: I think I– at different seasons of my life, I would just kind of plateau and I’d be Intimidated by the power of the idea that this is going to be hard or something’s gonna be difficult. You know, if anybody’s ever worked at a job for a long time and then you leave that job and start something new, all your muscle memory’s gone and you just feel inadequate.

[00:38:41] Zac Brown: You don’t feel like you’ve got what it takes to do this. All it takes is time and repetition. And so it’d be like, dude, you’re gonna figure it out. Just be curious and get in there and do it. So I think it’s the curiosity aspect to just keep learning, keep growing, ask the questions, and just don’t wait to, to find it, you know, till, till you have to be in the [00:39:00] middle of it.

[00:39:00] Zac Brown: It’s the, you know, the what Roy Rogers thing of like America is the only nation in the world that waits till it’s in the war to start learning. You don’t wanna have to wait till the opportunity to learn is right in your face before you start learning. Like, you need to get these things. Like, be interested, hear about it.

[00:39:16] Zac Brown: Don’t wait till AI is this far down before you’re just dipping your toe in. Like, jump in. Start getting your hands messy. It will serve

[00:39:23] Zac Brown: you in the long run.

[00:39:25] Paul Gowder: Yeah.

[00:39:25] Zac Brown: Yeah.

[00:39:26] Paul Gowder: that’s good. All right, so for the creators out there listening and, and they’re hoarding every clip, every photo, uh, I- I’m, I’m hoardingprojects and ideas as well, you know? Right? Because I feel like they’re, they’re great, but we only have so much time. So, uh, let’s talk more about this, you know, I, I love this, I wanna keep it.

[00:39:45] Paul Gowder: How do we actually take action on killing our darlings, and what do we cut, and how do we, how do we get that going?

[00:39:50] Zac Brown: The things that you’re holding onto, the things that you’re, you’re figuring out, I think you look at and just kind of go, if I was to make a greatest hits album of everything that I’m doing, what [00:40:00] is a must on that list? And then look at everything and just go, don’t need it. You know, really just get down to where you go, this is the thing that like if I die tomorrow and they look at everything that I’ve created, that this is the stuff that’s on the list.

[00:40:12] Zac Brown: And you’re like, “This is fine, but it’s really not gonna like move the needle. I, I like it. I enjoy it. I think it’s cool.” But would that be included in my like in memoriam? Maybe not, or probably not. I think those things you just go, let it go. And I also think this is simple is something I tell people is follow the peace.

[00:40:29] Zac Brown: The thing that you’re like, “This is eating my lunch. This is not serving me. This is not bringing me joy. This…” Just be done with it. you know, chase that thing that you’re like, “I can stay up till 4:00 AM doing this, and this is awesome. I’m so proud of this.” Focus on that stuff, and the stuff that doesn’t do that, let her go.

[00:40:45] Zac Brown: It just doesn’t need to be a part of your

[00:40:46] Jeff Sieh: So let’s say there’s a younger creator, right now watching. So what’s something a younger creator, like somebody who’s just getting into maybe editing their videos using edits feature on Instagram or CapCut or whatever, what is something a younger [00:41:00] creator is doing right now that the storyteller version of them five years from now is going to wish that they had cut?

[00:41:06] Zac Brown: the moments when they’re trying to be someone that they’re not.

[00:41:09] Paul Gowder: Oh,

[00:41:10] Paul Gowder: that’s

[00:41:10] Zac Brown: I think so many times we see somebody do something online and they’re popular or they’ve gone viral or it’s just trendy and you’re like, “That’s what I need to be doing.” No, you don’t. They’re doing it. They stand out because they started doing it and it just took.

[00:41:24] Zac Brown: The thing that makes you stand out is the thing that is yours uniquely. Then you go, “This is just me.” I think the faster that we realize who we are, what we bring to the table, and accept it and then lean into it, the faster that we are going to just shine. John Hughes did a brilliant thing with Breakfast Club where he broke down these archetypes of people, the jock, the basket case, the, the, the criminal.

[00:41:47] Zac Brown: Find out what you are and be okay with that. You don’t have to be ashamed that you’re not this or this. Just find out who you are and lean in. Stop trying to be what is working for someone else and just do what you go, “I do this [00:42:00] well.” I don’t care if it’s basket weaving, if it’s baking, if it’s taking pictures.

[00:42:04] Zac Brown: You don’t need to try to put that through the lens of something else. Take what you do well and what you enjoy and just let it be. I promise it will work. Don’t try to be anybody but

[00:42:14] Zac Brown: yourself.

[00:42:15] Jeff Sieh: you know, even for this show, I’ll use myself as an example, is that, I do the, you know, the, the old school kinda stuff. I love the retro things. I loved the new Fantastic Four movie ’cause it was all retro. I love, you know, The Jetsons. I love all that stuff. That’s why I have the songs.

[00:42:29] Jeff Sieh: Is it silly? Yes. Is it something I’ll continue to do? Yes, because I like it. So I think if you find something that you enjoy, you’re going to do it more. Like, if, if you wanna lean into s- collecting Star Wars figures and you wanna talk about that all the time, then do it, because you’re going to do it and be passionate about it.

[00:42:46] Jeff Sieh: and like, another thing is, is like I remember when Paul, when, it was when we first went to Momentum, and he was still working a corporate job, and he was working to get to the spot where he could leave and then do Pow Wows for f- full time. And, and [00:43:00] he has leaned into that. Like, it was great when we were together last in real life.

[00:43:04] Jeff Sieh: He was showing me kind of his pictures, like when he was doing his bead making and all this stuff that you were doing, doing your costume. y- I mean, not, it’s not a costume or whatever y- your s- what you dance in. Regalia, yes. So,Paul, talk a little bit about that.

[00:43:16] Jeff Sieh: I mean, you had to f- kind of like, “Okay, I’m gonna go all in on this Pow Wows thing,” and you didn’t know at first if it was gonna be successful. It was just kind of a hobby that you were doing, right?

[00:43:25] Paul Gowder: Yeah, I mean, Zac talks about being accidental. I, I call myself accidental entre- entrepreneur. It’s, it– I, I learned as I go. I never– This wasn’t meant to be a business. It was just something that took off over time. And yeah, even when I left the, the government job, I, you know, I struggled with what, h- what do I do?

[00:43:42] Paul Gowder: Like, what do I do on a daily basis? What, how do I bring value to this thing? You know, I’m now

[00:43:47] Paul Gowder: paying myself, right? Like, how do I, how do I justify that? W-what, what value do I bring? It’s a hard transition in, figuring out where you fit in. But I, I love what Zac said. You, you have to lean into who you are, and I’ve tried to do [00:44:00] that with, with email storytelling and everything else, is just being me and, taking people along that journey. I started palos.com because I wanted to share, like, “Here’s what I’m learning. I think this is really cool. Y’all check this out.” And so I’ve tried to keep that same curiosity and, e-exploring attitude in it. and yeah, just go from

[00:44:17] Paul Gowder: there.

[00:44:17] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And Zac, this has been a great conversation. I think a lot of people have taken away, like, Gira says, “I think over-planning or over str- strategizing can be, a darling in a business,” which I think is very, very true. We’ll, we try to get every option covered, and then we don’t do it. We kinda get in vapor lock.

[00:44:31] Jeff Sieh: And she also said, “Find out who you are and be okay with that.” That is so great. Raymond has some advice to his, his young Ray self, says, “Don’t wait.”

[00:44:41] Jeff Sieh: anyway, Zac, I wanted people to find out where they can find out more about the amazing Zac Brown, The Zac Brown Show, where you are in the accidental education journey, how, when is the book coming out, when can they get ahold of it or that free chapter right now.

[00:44:56] Jeff Sieh: the floor is now yours, my friend.

[00:44:57] Zac Brown: Whoo. Okay, so you can follow [00:45:00] me Zacbrowncreative my podcast is “The Zac Brown Show.” Like they said, it’s just meeting old friends one story at a time. Everybody has passions and stories about how they got to where they are now, and it’s gonna inspire someone in their journey. So love for you to check that out.

[00:45:14] Zac Brown: Drops the last Friday of every month, and a familiar fuzzy face that you’ve seen on this show will be the episode this month, and I am very happy that he was on the show. the book, “An Accidental Education: What I’ve Learned So Far,” releases to you and the rest of the world on June 23rd. Lauren, who’s been in the chat, has been incredibly helpful through this process over at lulu.com. They are lovely, lovely people. so you’ll be able to get it there. I’ll have a link on all my socials and I, I think I’ve done all the stuff. But yeah, if you want a– the first chapter of the, the, book, message me and I’ll send you the landing page. It’s pretty great. I’ll give you a free

[00:45:49] Zac Brown: chapter.

[00:45:50] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it is

[00:45:51] Jeff Sieh: very, very cool.

[00:45:52] Jeff Sieh: Zac Brown. Zac is spelled Z-A-C B-R-O-W-N Creative. That’s where you can

[00:45:56] Jeff Sieh: find him for all you people listening on the

[00:45:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:46:00] podcast. And,

[00:46:01] Jeff Sieh: Paul Gowder, where can people find the amazing Paul Gowder?

[00:46:04] Paul Gowder: PaulGowder.com. And if you want to create a landing page that then follows into a sequence where you could deliver something free, come check it out. We’ll talk about that. Zach, we need to

[00:46:11] Paul Gowder: talk

[00:46:12] Paul Gowder: after

[00:46:12] Paul Gowder: this. so he,

[00:46:13] Jeff Sieh: and everybody, and Paul’s the man.

[00:46:15] Jeff Sieh: Lauren, she goes, “Happy to help. Can’t wait to read the finished product.”

[00:46:19] Jeff Sieh: Lauren is amazing. you should go watch her episode. We’ve had her on a couple, la- a couple months ago. she’s a, it was a great talk with her. And with that, Thank you. We have the amazing chat room, Kira, Rich, Lauren, Dustin, everybody who showed up. You guys are the best. Thank you guys so much for watching.

[00:46:35] Jeff Sieh: And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye, everybody.