SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

Shannon Hernandez: [00:00:00] Where do you want to go? What is the website platform that you want to use? Are you going to be utilizing platforms like newsletters? How are you going to be doing that? Are you going to be selling products?

Are you going to be selling courses? What does that look like and how is that going to look like? And then once you start, you know, uncovering these layers for podcasters, it can become overwhelming. But the cool thing about podcasting is that you don’t have to eat the elephant all in one bite. You can take it step by step by step and just figuring out your objectives.

Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to

Social Media News Live, I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

Conor Brown: I’m Connor Brown and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

Jeff Sieh: You ever wondered what it takes to grow a podcast that reaches the right audience and keeps them coming back for more? Maybe you’re looking for ways to make your podcast stand out in a crowded space. Or maybe you’re thinking about taking your show to YouTube, but aren’t sure if that’s the right move or not.

If any of those sound familiar, then you are in the right place because this week we’re [00:01:00] sitting down with someone. Who knows the ins and outs of podcasting success. Shannon Hernandez has spent over two decades in radio and now helps podcasters create, grow, and monetize their shows. He’ll be sharing his journey, his best strategies, and the biggest mistakes to avoid.

So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Shannon, how are you doing today, my friend?

Shannon Hernandez: Good, thank you for having me on the show today, Jeff, and it’s good to see you, Connor. I was commenting before we went live that I like your hair.

Conor Brown: I know my. My luscious flow is, is coming in and it’s grown quite a bit since the last time we had Shannon on the show, but we’re so happy to have him back. If you don’t know who Shannon is, you should. He is a radio personality podcasting expert and business growth strategist. He’s been a staple at 98 KUPD as an on-air personality for over 26 years with 20 of those years as a full-time host.

Shannon is passionate about helping businesses thrive in the digital space, and he is built [00:02:00] trainings and products designed to help small business owners launch and grow their podcasts with ease. He’s also the host of the podcast therapist and an editor for The Remarkable People Podcast with his deep knowledge of audio and business, he’s here to share insights on making your podcast stand out.

So Shannon, welcome back to the show.

Shannon Hernandez: you again, Connor. I appreciate it very much. And, I’m looking forward to talking to people about today’s topic.

Jeff Sieh: You sound so impressive. It’s amazing, Shannon. So, uh, I mean, I keep forgetting you were a teacher and that you’ve been radio, uh, radio, personality for so long, but it’s very, very cool. Thank you for being here today.

one of the things that makes this show happen is our friends over at Ecamm.

You can find out more about them at Ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. There are a lot of podcasters use it. A lot of people use it for, like what we’re doing with a live show. You can find out more by going to Ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Use code JEFF15 to save 15 percent on your first purchase. That’s E C A M M.

And I’m gonna, I’m gonna pull a Dave [00:03:00] Jackson here because he’s in the audience. it’s two Ms because, mm, it’s good. Uh, we, we also have to be in the, uh, our best behavior because he is here going, Hey, the Shanman. I go and watch Dave’s show every Saturday that he does at 9 30 my time. So, I have to be on my best behavior

Shannon Hernandez: Dave’s a legend, man. Dave’s a legend.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. He’s like in the podcast hall of fame, along with Luma, our friend Luma Jello and all that. So we’re going to hope, go ahead and get started because this is kind of a, interesting topic. Topic, this shifting to YouTube podcasts. We went, we, I was just at PodFest not very long ago. This was a big subject, a lot of tracks about video podcasting.

So on your YouTube channel, you’ve been talking a lot about YouTube podcasts lately, so what sparked your, you know, your shift towards focusing on YouTube as a platform for podcasters?

Shannon Hernandez: well, I think it really started, um, back in, I guess, the fall of 2024, I really wanted to jump back onto my YouTube channel and start. I started, you know, helping people helping podcasters and not just [00:04:00] helping podcasters with the startup of a podcast, but helping them with the marketing aspect of their podcast.

And so, at the time I was rebuilding a few things back on my website. and I was, uh, getting back into the social media game, not necessarily so much on Facebook, but really tapping into, threads, LinkedIn, all that. And so all of this kind of came together. and I thought, well, I’m going to just start releasing an audio podcast and we’ll, uh, get it out there and we’ll start, publishing it out there so that people can start, you know, consuming it.

Once again, I’ve already got an email list. I can, you know, push that out there, let them know that I’m back and that I plan on being here for a while. And so, trying to get back into the consistency game was a bit of a challenge for me, right? But it was, right around that time when. I started reading a lot more about YouTube podcasts and, it’s already been around for quite some time.

I mean, you would say that guys like Joe Rogan had already been, had popularized it. You know, they, they’re moved from YouTube to Spotify and, and just how podcasts are consumed. And I had [00:05:00] known that this was already a trend in the space as it is. Because I had co workers that were, that’s how they listen to the podcast.

They listen to them specifically and strictly on YouTube. And the reason behind that, for their reasons behind that, was that they could click over to the video portion and see the reactions of what was going on. On the podcast itself. And I just thought that was a really fascinating take on YouTube podcasts is that you could listen to it, but if you wanted to switch over, you could actually see the reactions of someone on the screen.

And so that really has fascinated me probably for the last couple of years. And so by the time. last fall or, you know, the fall of, 2024 had rolled around. I thought, you know, I really need to investigate at least for myself, what this is all about. I had already imported my, podcast, the podcast therapist up onto, YouTube as it, as it was.

And I was probably, I was getting ready to publish podcasts and I was publishing some, you know, publishing podcasts [00:06:00] here and there, just to kind of get a taste of like, How this is going to work, how it’s going to tie in from my own hosting platform over into YouTube. And, and so then I thought, you know, I really need to, just start doing this.

I need to start going in and publishing, to, to my RSS feed so that it can go to YouTube. And then it was around that time back in November that I had gotten an email from YouTube itself themselves. And they had said, you know, we’re going to be doing a live feed, a live stream, and we are going to be talking specifically and strictly about YouTube podcasts.

And I thought, Here’s my chance. This is my chance to learn from the global head of, you know, YouTube and podcasts and, and I can hear exactly what they are looking for in terms of what it takes to put a podcast up on YouTube. and just as some context, I was, you know, back in 2021, 2022, and I’d already been publishing to my YouTube channel.

So I was publishing videos already to YouTube. So I already knew what it took to publish [00:07:00] to YouTube as it was. So how different was that to publishing a regular video versus a podcast? And that’s what I was really fascinated about. And that’s where I, why I wanted to jump into it. And there was a lot in that, that seminar, or that, that, I guess it was a webinar that I learned.

I mean, I learned so much in there and there’s just so many different takes on YouTube podcasts and, and how you do it and how you publish it. And there’s all the statistics that come out about like, Hey, you know, Apple podcast is the top podcasting platform to where you can consume podcasts. And then you get pod news that comes back and says, YouTube podcast is the top, platform.

And you know, where is that at? Which information is correct? And you have to take a lot of the data that you are getting from, podcast outlets, news outlets, wherever they’re coming from. You have to take it kind of with a grain of salt and understand really, your audience. And that’s where I come in.

That’s where I want to come in and I [00:08:00] want to help podcasters with marketing their podcast. And so a YouTube podcast to me seems like a great opportunity for podcasters to really make promotional efforts towards their podcast if they are following, I would say a strategic format or a strategic order in order to publish their podcast, but to.

leverage the platform for their backend. In other words, leveraging, leveraging YouTube podcasts and already what they’re doing with their audio podcasts and leveraging it on the backend of their website or newsletter or whatever that may be. So that’s really kind of where it all started for me.

Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

Conor Brown: think as we’re gonna talk a lot about, you know, YouTube podcasts in particular. There’s, we can kind of take a step back and James asks a great question where he says, I’m in Spotify and Apple, but isn’t YouTube already a podcast? I upload my episodes on YouTube automatically. Is that the same thing?

[00:09:00] So Shannon, can you kind of break down, you know, what is an actual YouTube podcast? ’cause I know we can just also add the RSS feed and it’ll pull in. But there’s a couple of different ways we can, we can kind of go, go about it. Right.

Shannon Hernandez: Right. Yeah. So there’s a different couple of different ways. So if you’re creating a YouTube podcast, there’s a couple of different ways we look at this, right? So let’s say you have a hosting platform and you’re publishing already audio podcasts. Well, you can go into YouTube and YouTube gives you the ability to go into your YouTube studio and set up a podcast.

An actual dedicated podcast, right? So it’s a podcast itself, and it can be, it can be, if I could put air quotes around things, can be audio, but it’s all set up in YouTube Studio, right? Uh, you have to go through the, the, you know, all the steps that it’ll take to set it up as a YouTube podcast, the RSS feed is being pulled into YouTube.

And then, as you publish to your hosting provider, that audio podcast is uploaded directly into [00:10:00] YouTube as just a slate card. It’s just, it’s just a thumbnail is all it is. And it’s going to be a thumbnail of your podcast show art. That’s all it’s going to be. So that’s one way that YouTube says that you can go ahead and publish to YouTube.

YouTube Podcasts. The other way is that you are actually natively uploading video, or some form of video, into YouTube that allow, that could be like a podcast, where it’s like this. It’s, we’re talking on the screen, you can see guests, you can see hosts, you can do, you can see just about anything going on.

There’s still an audio element to it. But it is not distributed to an RSS feed. It’s distributed onto YouTube’s platform. So when we’re talking about, the different types of podcasts, YouTube says, yes, you can pull an RSS feed in onto, uh, YouTube podcasts, but it is almost, it’s better. It’s actually better to natively [00:11:00] upload into YouTube because it leverages the platform a lot better.

So you’re, if you’re pulling it from a third party, like an RSS, Yeah, that’s cool. You can still do it. It’ll work. And it, and it does work. I’ve seen podcasts where it’s just strictly audio and it’s just an RSS feed that is pulled in. But they say if you want to really take advantage of the leverage that, the leverage of the tools that YouTube has creating something that has video, Where there’s actual elements of figures on the screen speaking are better.

Now they will also say that, and, and we might get into this a little bit later. They say, maybe you’re camera shy and you might get a little camera shy. You don’t necessarily have to be on the camera. What you can have is something that is natively uploaded into YouTube and something that is like, like it has captions, like the moving captions that go across the screen.

Something has to move on the screen. So you can do that, but it must be natively uploaded into YouTube. YouTube, and I might add, and I forgot that, when you’re setting this up in [00:12:00] YouTube and you, you upload a podcast into YouTube, there is a dedicated playlist. So they say podcasts are playlists, so podcasts are playlists.

So you must create a playlist and there, and when you set up your podcast, it’ll ask you if this is a, a podcast itself, and then you go, yeah, yeah, it is. And then it’ll create a playlist for that. And that’s how you start uploading and you assign that video. To a playlist and it creates it a play as a playlist.

These podcasts are then distributed onto the YouTube music platform and onto YouTube. So the distribution gets into the ecosystem of YouTube itself, whether that be YouTube music or YouTube platform itself, and then the algorithm, depending on how you are setting up those podcasts in terms of the metadata.

That is going to determine how the algorithm is going to take charge of that and put it and distribute it out to people who it thinks most likely will consume that content.

Jeff Sieh: gotcha. So, playlists are important once you upload it. Uploading is, uploading [00:13:00] natively is, is what you have found to be the best. I mean, you know, instead of just pulling it from an RSS feed, I think, I’m pretty sure that’s what I’ve heard a lot of podcasters do. so those, that’s all a good thing, but you have to tag it with that playlist or it’s not a podcast, correct?

Shannon Hernandez: Right. It would just be a regular video. Now, it can still be a video. Let’s say it’s a still a video itself. You can dedicate, you can create another YouTube playlist, but if you want it to be a podcast that is distributed into the YouTube music platform, Make sure it’s a playlist for that podcast. And then you can have another playlist where it’s like helpful videos or videos on, you know, best beard grooming techniques.

And it can still be something like that. If you see what I’m saying.

Jeff Sieh: Okay, I’m gonna nerd out real quick, Connor. I’m sorry, I gotta, I gotta go down this rabbit trail. So, you know, a lot of times, you know, discovery is hard for podcasts. This, I think, helps with that. I think, I’m, I’m 100%, I couldn’t find the quote, but I’m 100 percent sure that I think Tom Webster said like, this is where most people are finding new podcasts is from YouTube.

And I’m pretty sure that’s what he said. [00:14:00] if I’m wrong, tell me in the comments. But, so discovery is important on YouTube. But at the end of the, the, uh, YouTube video, a lot of times people put on those title cards. Is it important when you have that playlist for your YouTube podcast is to have that title card go to the next one in your playlist for a podcast and not take it off of the list to like another one of your videos per se, or, or have them suggest what you want.

Kind of best practices. Would you have it go to like the next one in sequence? Or if I’m doing a series about podcasting on this show, it should list to another podcast. episode about podcasting on this, on the playlist. Is that what I’m hearing you need to do as well?

Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. There’s a couple of different philosophies, a way you can look at this because really it’s all about driving traffic to the things that you want. Right. And, and Jeff, you know me long enough to where you know that I’m about traffic. Like I’m about driving traffic through email, all these things. And so, yeah.

At the end of the YouTube video, you’re typically going to have about, 15 seconds to go [00:15:00] ahead and do your final pitch that, you know, for people to say, Hey, like, Hey, I want you to go ahead and check out this next video that’s going to, that really is going to help you out with, I don’t know, maybe, you know, help you out with your objectives for your podcast.

I’ve been, I’ve done this podcast and you know, I’m always trying to push people to that. If I were to take a step back and say what, like ask the question, Like what is the thing that a lot of podcasters are really focused on? Well, they’re focused on, they like to focus on downloads. And I think that’s still kind of a thing.

They love to get their downloads and downloads are, they’re important, right? Because that’s visibility, to their podcast. And so you have to identify. anything that goes onto YouTube, like kind of like air quote download, right? But you’re just driving someone to another video. So you’re creating a call to action for them to consume a new piece of content that is going to be on your channel.

Don’t, you know, why would you want to give traffic to someone else’s video? When you’re trying to drive traffic to your own video. And that’s just the, that’s just the logics behind it. So you get a quad, you can create a [00:16:00] quadrant, on the end screen for YouTube. And so the quadrant can be, you know, just a video of your face.

It could be this video and the top left hand corner. And then below that can be a subscribe button. You can, you can set it up in the backend, set it. You want to set up a subscribe button. Then of course you want to, I put in the top right hand corner on my videos, the next video and the next video is typically going to be the previous video that I want them to watch.

Or if I have covered a topic or I’m talking, I’m talking about a specific topic or I mentioned something about a previous episode in the topic. And I really want to drive home the case that like, Hey, if you’re trying to promote your podcast through social media, What is your objective? Like, this is like a big question and I’ll, I’ll say this right now, even in this, you know, this recording is that you have to understand what your objective is.

And so I’ll always tell people like, what’s your objective? Hey, I’ve got a video at the end of this particular podcast or this YouTube video. Make sure you click on it. It talks. All about objectives. I highly recommend that you check out [00:17:00] that particular video because that is really going to be the catalyst for the success of the downloads or views of your podcast.

So in that quadrant will be my face. It’ll be a subscribe button. It’ll be a video going next, you know, to the next video. And then below that I typically have A link that will go directly to an opt in for something. So, Hey, if you’re starting a podcast, check out my essential equipment guide, and that will take them to the essential equipment guide.

So I have a quadrant of four calls to action to allow them to take an action on something. All right. And so that subscribe button, is real easy, right? It’s on the screen. You can hit subscribe or you can hit the subscribe button on YouTube and it’ll allow you to just go ahead and subscribe immediately.

but then you’ll have two other options, which will be either go to the next video or to go to the opt in, either way, but this is really more about. Optimization and giving yourself the competitive edge on, leveraging the platform so that you can start generating traffic to either your videos or to your email newsletter [00:18:00] list or your website.

Jeff Sieh: Got it.

Conor Brown: Jeff, we’re getting a lot of good questions. I I wanna ask one, um, from Rich Graham kind of turn it into a, a, a question. He says, lots of YouTube podcasters are sleeping on clips, not shorts, but five to 10 minute hyper-specific SEO worthy snippets. Shannon, my question to you is the bigger players we see a lot of the times they’ll have two channels, right?

One channel will just be long form podcast episodes, and then the second channel will be a Clipse channel where they take those long form podcasts and they cut ’em up into five and 10 minute segments like Rich is talking about and post it to that second channel. What’s your thought on keeping those separate verse?

Just putting them all on one dedicated YouTube channel with long form and then also clips posted.

Shannon Hernandez: so I would say that like, there’s two different philosophies that go behind this. Now you have big players that are doing this, I’ve seen it all over the place [00:19:00] and they have two channels to do this, to promote their other channels. I’ve heard anything from, Hey, you know, it’s because YouTube limits my visibility based on whatever.

And, while others say like, no, I just keep the clips on one channel. And, you know, I would say you have to do what works best for you. However, I will also say this, that when I attended the YouTube webinar, back in, you know, November, December or something like that. And I went back and rewatched the, the, the, the replay. YouTube says that it is, if you’re going to do that, it is all, it is better to just have those clips on one channel. And for specifically for the reasons that if they have enabled the subscribe bell on your YouTube channel, it will always notify them. To it’ll always notify the viewer that there is a new video that is available for their, for that channel.

If they’re creating a separate channel, there is, I don’t know if they said this, but I can assume that there is a [00:20:00] likelier chance that they have not hit that bell for that secondary channel. So you’re creating more steps in the process of promoting the podcast or promoting what you have in order to get people back to listening to your own content.

It doesn’t mean that it’s wrong or that it’s right. It just means that you have to do what works best for you. But what I would say is that if you’re to leverage all of the tools inside of YouTube, you have to leverage the metadata. You have to leverage the titles. You have to leverage the thumbnails.

You have to leverage where you’re putting the links, the comments, everything pushing back to your ultimate objective. What in like, God, that’s going to be the thing that I’m going to always talk about. What is your objective? If your objective is just to get views and you have an extra channel and you want to push it back to your, you, your YouTube channel, fine.

Maybe that’s your objective, but maybe your objective is that you’re creating a business around all of this. And not only do you have monetization opportunities that are available for a channel, but you also have the That you can [00:21:00] sell products, merchandise, services, whatever it may be. But what is the other objective?

Maybe the objective is on the backend, right? It’s on your website. And I know that you talk about this a lot on your show, Jeff, is that, you know, we, we always talk about how, you know, you can build content on platforms, but is it, is it a good idea to have all of your content in that platform and monetize on monetize on that platform?

And, you know, you and I have been in this game long enough to know that, When, you know, when Instagram goes down, everyone, the world turns upside down, freaks out and everyone’s like, Oh my God. Right. And so who’s to say that anything like that could happen to YouTube? YouTube is, you know, historically been a pretty reliable platform.

But what if, what if that one day your YouTube channel gets banned? And I, we talk about those types of things. You hear about it on YouTube channels. They say, my YouTube channel got demonetized for this reason. You don’t want to fall into those traps. Where you get demonetized and you have no income coming in.

You, that’s how you’re [00:22:00] relying on your income. So I know we kind of went off track right there, but to, to, to, to go, to talk about the, the clips, that’s what I would recommend is that you got to do what’s best for you, but you have to understand your objective.

Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point. That’s a great point. I, there’s some great questions and comments we’re having inside of the chat. So thank you guys for doing that. Ask your questions away. Chris Stone has this great point and he’s watching over on YouTube. He says, content diversity is important on video serves up your content to different people with different attention spans.

And also DocRot, because we were talking, some people were talking about, you know, don’t forget about Spotify. Spotify has 675 million users, YouTube is 2. 9 billion, but people need to stop sleeping on Spotify, because, I mean, there’s discovery that’s starting to happen more and more there. This is a great question from But Mostly Disney, says, So I do my podcast on YouTube, live on YouTube, and then I edit it and upload it to Spotify.

The podcast on YouTube Music is an audio version of The Raw Show, so But for the audio, I’d like it to [00:23:00] be the more polished one. Is there a way, an easy way for him to do that, Shannon?

Shannon Hernandez: So the way that I polish audio, and I hope this answers the question and maybe you can help me with this Jeff, because this is, I think how you do it as well is that, You know, I’ve, I’ve got a RODECaster Pro 2 here. That’s how I have polished audio. So I can record through Ecamm. Nice plug for Ecamm.

Go get Jeff’s Ecamm right now. but that’s how I’m typically doing it. I’m recording my video on Ecamm. and shout out to Doc Rock on that as well. So I record it all on Ecamm, but I record the audio version on a RODECaster Pro 2. And that’s how I’m doing it. I’m using the function there. And so, that is how I get more polished audio for myself to, to publish to my RSS feed or whatever.

I like to do it that way. I’m kind of a little bit of an audio nerd just because, a lot of the elements that are in my, in my podcast, at least the sound elements, they are recorded and they are mixed into stereo and so when you listen to it, You listen to the Podcast Therapist on Apple Podcasts or [00:24:00] Spotify, you can hear that it is actually in stereo.

You can hear things panning from one ear to the next, and you can hear that. if I record it on Ecamm, I think, I, I don’t believe that it is recorded in stereo. It’s in, it’s in mono. and of course, You know, it is high quality, but it’s more in mono. I’ve, you know, replaced the audio from my, my Rodecaster Pro 2 and that’s how I’ve done that.

so that’s just kind of how I create and clean up audio if I’m just doing an audio podcast. So I have a couple of different systems. I know that it isn’t. Always ideal or, you know, it’s perfect for people to go ahead and create or buy a RODECaster Pro 2. But, I always try to, to tell people, Hey, you know, if you’re going to get into something like a RODECaster Pro 2 or maybe even a RODECaster Duo, utilize the Duo.

It’ll do the same exact thing. If you’re not looking for having many inputs, you don’t have many guests, anything like that. But, you know, I’m an audio dork. So it’s, you know, more than likely the average person is not going to do what I do.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Shannon Hernandez: So, I don’t know if you can add more to that, Jeff.[00:25:00]

Jeff Sieh: yeah.

Conor Brown: I wanna add something to it. ’cause, and you can correct me if, if I’m wrong here, but, so Sean, for, for but mostly Disney. One thing you can do if you’re not already doing this, is once your live ends, which is your podcast, go into your YouTube channel backend and then flag that video and add it to your podcast playlist.

And then it’ll automatically become that playlist. Yep. You’re gonna have the, the ums and the ahs that you do with, with a live show, but it’s going to show up as a video podcast. And even on the audio, you know, music, YouTube, music format, it’s just gonna be the audio anyway. It won’t be as clean, but I think it’s gonna help with, with all that.

Go ahead Shannon.

Jeff Sieh: the, the one thing I would say is, Connor, you can actually set that up to go beforehand. So what I do is I schedule the show. Then I go into my YouTube settings and I go ahead and edit that to add it to the podcast. So I don’t have to go back later and do it.

It’s already in the podcast [00:26:00] feed. So when it goes live, it goes automatically and dumps it in there. So good, Shannon.

Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. And, and, and so, and that’s a good, great point too, Jeff, because when I attended the YouTube event, they had, someone had asked, you know, can I turn my live videos into podcasts? And they were like, absolutely. We encourage that you do that, that if you’re doing a live video, just put it at, just create it and make it as a playlist because so people can know that you have an actual podcast that.

is being published directly to YouTube. So, I would say that, there is no discouragement from doing it how you want to do it. But if you want to take the extra steps to clean it up, if you want to do massive editing for your podcast, Uh, you want to take it into, I don’t know what video platforms people want to use, whether it’s Adobe Premiere.

I was using ScreenFlow for a long, long time. It’s up to you. You got to find the best workflow for yourself. And I think that is where there is a challenge with a lot of podcasters is that they’re trying to [00:27:00] find the, or to identify the best workflow because There is this discrepancy, this content development discrepancy, where, podcasters, they produce more content, they produce the content, but they have no time to promote the content.

And so, it’s about finding the right workflow. And I’m, look, I’m not perfect at it, I’m still getting it right for myself, especially since I rebooted back in November, and I’ve been getting back up on my own feet. And, you know, you’re dealing with life challenges, I mean, uh, if anyone knows about life challenges, Jeff knows that I’ve had life challenges within the past, like, four years.

It’s been, it’s been challenging, but I think that every day that you go into this, you have to make small moves every single day to not only produce the content, to develop the content, to create the podcast itself, but also to develop a workflow that will allow you to promote that podcast too.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. We promote the crap out of this podcast. So if you guys have followed our feed, you know that I use it unashamedly and multiple times and it [00:28:00] works. I just, it works. So, and the thing that has changed everything for me is Descript. Being able to take my recording from Ecamm and then go put it to Descript and then edit it as a text document, export it out that way for the clips and everything.

It’s just, for me, a no brainer. Got some more great comments from, Our friends, Gary Stockton. I’m so glad you’re back watching with us, Gary. Thank you so much for coming in today. Uh, he goes, the Rodecaster duo is great with Ecamm. You get those individual tracks for guests, which are easy to polish and post before cutting and editing.

when Ecamm went to, isolated tracks for video and audio, That’s when I went out and bought my new, Mac Studio because I needed the Mac Silicon to do that. Uh, it makes a huge difference in the quality of repurposing. our friend Dave Jackson says, Amen. Friendster, MySpace, TikTok, be careful making a platform the place to find you.

that’s why we go everywhere and I, and I’ve been doing it. And Dustin pointed out earlier, Shannon’s one of the original Google Plus people, uh, we used to hang out together on the, on there. that’s what I’ve been doing since the Google Plus days because I’m [00:29:00] just lazy. And I like having multiple things.

Like, I record once and I have so much content that I can pull from a, a live show. It just, it just makes sense for me. a couple, you know, so, Deal Billy is here watching as well saying great show. uh, Billy Thorpe is amazing And then, Doc says, Podcasters are stuck on the word podcast, a made up word, and the perceived definition of made up word.

The definition is changing and the OGs are scared So, Doc is waiting right in the middle of the controversy about, uh, is, you know, YouTube a podcast or not? we can debate this until we’re blue in the face. People will, you know, go one way or another.

I see it on Dave’s

Conor Brown: Are you familiar with the show? Call her Daddy.

Jeff Sieh: I don’t listen to it as much, but, uh, you can call me daddy anytime

Shannon Hernandez: don’t lie, Jeff. Don’t lie, Jeff. You are,

Jeff Sieh: I do not. I know of it, but I am not, I do not, uh, subscribe to it. on this note of the, the video and the importance of video and what we’re talking about being on YouTube. I want to know, Shannon, for someone starting brand new, like they’ve [00:30:00] just started a podcast or getting ready to, they went to PodFest.

our friend, Rich Watts is watching and he is getting ready to start a podcast. So, should they start, should they focus on creating native video podcasts on YouTube, or should they repurpose their audio content into video form? because a lot of people, you mentioned the camera ready thing, it’s a big deal for people.

I heard a lot of people at PodFest saying, hey, I’m an OG. I’m an OG. Audio only, I’m going to stay that way. I don’t care. What do you, what do you say to those people?

Shannon Hernandez: if they’re just starting out and start with the thing that. Is comfortable for you. If you do not like being on camera, that’s completely fine. And I completely understand. I mean, look, like half the time when I’m recording my stuff on Ecamm and I’m pre recording, I don’t even do it live. I mean, I do it recorded live.

Right. But it’s not going out to the YouTube feed at all. I mean, nine times out of 10, I haven’t showered for the day. Right. So it’s like, you know, it’s like, I haven’t showered. I’m wearing a baseball cap. My hair is greasy. And I don’t care. Now I [00:31:00] understand that there is a, there is a norm and the, you know, and there are, you know, I’m not trying to sound sexist or anything like that.

It’s just, you know, there’s a norm, right? And, and we understand what that norm is for males and females. And while I would say do what’s, You know, do what you think is great. Do what you think is great, but do what you think is comfortable for you. That’s what I say you need to do. So let’s say you’re starting out for the very first time and you just want to do audio and that is really all you want to do.

Okay, great. Just do audio and then maybe all you need to do is create a video that is published and uploaded into YouTube. That, you know, is some form of a A thumbnail that’s got, you know, captions that are going across the screen that will allow people to read what you’re saying. And, and you know, maybe that’s the way that you do that.

But I would say you have to go with what makes you comfortable, what’s going to be best for you, because not everyone, not every podcast is equally the same. If I [00:32:00] were to say that, and if I were to say, it depends on your objective, What is your objective for your podcast? What are you trying to accomplish?

Do you want more downloads? Are you trying to increase downloads by 30 percent between now and the next six months? What are you trying to do? And what does that, what does that metric look like for you? And so that really has to come down to the identification of what you’re So if you want to just start from the very beginning and do audio podcasts and audio only, do audio only.

If you want to do a video podcast and you really don’t care what you look like every day, that is fine. If I were to put this in context of the YouTube event that I attended, YouTube says all they care about is good content. They care about good content. The length of that content could be anywhere between 15 minutes to 3 hours.

And that’s what they consider as a podcast. So, I hope that kind of answers your question because it really is a case by case situation.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I [00:33:00] just, if you’re, I argue for video podcast, for the reason that you get so much content and all the, and the discoverability, that is on YouTube, because that’s the biggest, I think the biggest issue with podcasts, especially if you’re starting out at the very beginning, you have no social presence, it’s really, really hard, like get people to listen to your podcast.

Shannon Hernandez: and I think it comes down to, and you know that I’m not telling anyone to not do a video podcast, but from a workflow standpoint, I would say start with video because if you’re starting with video, then you’re able to create more content. All the multiple pieces of content that are chunked down, you know, all the way down the line from video to clips, to audio, to transcripts, to creating those transcripts as to promotional pieces that can go up on Instagram, or you can create them as tweets.

And of course, with the emergence of AI in the last couple of years, I mean, a lot of this can be done. using the assistant that will still talk in your tone of voice and, and utilize the [00:34:00] transcript itself. So it sounds like it’s very, very close to how you sound. I mean, let’s be real. AI doesn’t do a great job about certain things, but it gets it pretty darn close, especially if you have the AI or the transcript plugged into your, your AI the right way and have the right prompt.

I mean, that I think is what is important.

Jeff Sieh: One of the things too, is people who are worried about like getting camera ready, whatever, look at this Motley crew, come on folks. Like, you know, if we could do a live show, you probably got it made. In fact, somebody at the very beginning said, Andrew said, there’s a lot of hair and talent on this show.

I don’t, there’s a lot of hair, Andrew, but, uh, anyway, yeah. So

Shannon Hernandez: let’s be honest, told Jeff and look, I work nights. And so I like I, you can’t see them, but I have bags under my eyes. It’s difficult. It can be challenging, but you know, that’s why I say you have to allow, you have to give yourself some grace to give yourself some grace. Allow yourself to be who you are.[00:35:00]

Going back to that YouTube live event, they did mention one thing that they thought was important. And they said, Authenticity is the most important thing that you can do for your video podcast. And you can take that many different ways, right? You can say like, Authenticity in what you say, or is it Authenticity in how you appear?

And I think the more authentic that you can be within the videos, the better it is for you. To not only just get the podcast out there, but to display yourself as some form of an authority or entertainer, whatever that may be, however you want to position that, just be authentic. I mean, look at a lot of the, comedy podcasts.

I mean, a lot of them, they’re just sitting there. They just, they’re, they’re very chill and they don’t care at all. And so, you know, I think it’s, it’s a difficult thing to get over whenever people say like, you have to be camera ready. And it’s just like, do you? Do you really? You don’t really have to. It’s just maybe that’s a standard that you’re setting on yourself and that’s what’s stressing you out.

Jeff Sieh: So I want to bring up this quote that just came in from [00:36:00] Gary, and I think it will lead into the question that Shannon’s going to ask. He goes, I do a talk show, and when booking a major guest, they don’t care about Apple, TuneIn, iTunes, or any app. They want to know how many subscribers you have on YouTube.

So that’s really interesting to me, is that, They’re looking for numbers on YouTube when they’re, when they’re booking guests. So I think that’s just kind of gives a, a, a perfect example of why YouTube is so important for podcasters. Good, Shannon. I mean, go ahead, Connor.

Shannon Hernandez: Oh no. I was just going to say, you know, when it comes to stuff like that, I mean, you know, you can be selective in who you choose to be on your podcast. We all, I get the game. We all get the game that, you know, if you’re going to go onto YouTube or you’re going to be on a podcast, they want numbers.

They want, they want those downloads. Right. I mean, you can say like, Hey, I’ve got 3000 downloads and they go, really? And you’re like, yeah, total. You know, and then they’re like, Oh yeah, I don’t, yeah, I don’t want to be on that program. And, you know, again, I’m going to, I’m going to continue to drill this down hard, hard, [00:37:00] hard.

Is that what is your podcast objective? Like, no, like I talked about when we’ve been the podcast movement and we have, we have talked to other podcasters. I say, what are you trying to do? And they go, well, I don’t know. I’m just trying to get downloads. And it’s like, no, no, it’s got to go deeper than that.

It’s got to go way deeper than that. And they go, I don’t know. And I go, okay, well, let’s sit down and let’s examine where, what the future of your podcast is going to look like. what, what does that monetization going to look like for you on the back end? And then I go, well, I’m just gonna, you know, I’ll just create something into Apple and, you know, we all know where that can lead at some point in time.

So. You know, and so we see that I mean, just like how Dave Jackson had talked about those platforms, they can go away at any point in time, we are still using someone else’s app, someone else’s software, that is allowing us to leverage what we’re doing. And so that is why I always try to ask the podcaster, what is your platform?

Objective, like I’m gonna tell you right now. I’ll even give you the link to it Jeff so that you can share it with people It’s it’s the podcast on objectives It’s like that [00:38:00] is the one that I think people don’t listen to the most because they don’t want to face what they have to Do in the beginning before they take the podcast to the next level.

You have to focus on the objective Where do you want to go? What is the website platform that you want to use? Are you going to be utilizing marketing platforms like email? Are you going to be utilizing platforms like newsletters? How are you going to be doing that? Are you going to be selling products?

Are you going to be selling courses? What does that look like and how is that going to look like? And then once you start, you know, uncovering these layers for podcasters, it can become overwhelming. But the cool thing about podcasting is that you don’t have to eat the elephant all in one bite. You can take it step by step by step and just figuring out your objectives.

And I mean, you know, I think it’s, it’s safe to say, Jeff, that we understand that you have a couple of different objectives. I mean, we know that when you are promoting Ecamm, you’re, you’ve got some type of sponsorship that is lying behind that, but you also have A newsletter. Yeah. See, there you go. Um, [00:39:00] I guess, yeah, I like how I weave that in there, but you also have something where you push people to a newsletter as well to connect with them.

And I think that is a challenge. That is a true challenge by podcasters because you and I are old school. I mean, if we want to go, Oh gee, like Dave Jackson, You know, you’re talking about, he’s been talking about this for years, right? But it has to be reiterated. It has to be delivered in, you know, through different people to say like, this is what you should be focusing on.

Are you focusing more on the downloads? Are you focusing more on the backend? What does that look like for you?

Conor Brown: I think back in the day when we were just focusing on audio, it was relatively easy, right? You record it, you come up with a, a title you think is attention grabbing. You add in some show notes and some descriptions and, and you post it and it goes out there, and the marketing of it was very, very, very difficult.

Now. I think the myth is we transition to video podcasts, right? We still have that audio function, but when we’re posting the [00:40:00] YouTube, great. I’m gonna have a video component posted to YouTube, and then YouTube is gonna feed me all of these wonderful new viewers and listeners, and my life is going to be complete.

Right now, you still have to build towards that. So now all of a sudden, podcasters have to deal with metadata, have to deal with thumbnails, have to deal with SEO for YouTube in particular, and it can be a lot. So Shannon, what do you think are are some of the biggest mistakes that that podcasters are making when it comes to optimizing for search on the YouTube platform in general?

Shannon Hernandez: Yeah, well, I would say the biggest mistake is they just publish and run. Like that is their thing. They just publish and run and they don’t take the time to fill out the fields that are inside of YouTube. And the fields are going to be, the fields that you have to fill out inside of YouTube, they are, they are the muscle.

I wouldn’t say they’re the muscle, but they are some of the muscle that is going to get that Podcast delivered and in front of the eyes of people [00:41:00] who are looking for the information that you are sharing. And so what I would say to someone who’s looking to publish onto podcasts, or I’m sorry, onto YouTube podcasts, is that we need, you need to focus on these areas.

You need to focus on the title, you need to focus on a quality, high quality and engaging thumbnail for your podcast. you need to focus on the description. And if I were to take information from the YouTube event that I attended, they say, The description and leverage. Leverage how you can put links inside of the description.

again, it comes back down to the objective. What is your objective? If you can leverage the using links inside of your description, that can typically lead them to where you want them to go. So we talk about titles, thumbnails, descriptions, links, and then we are talking about you know, things like end screens, you know, where are you trying to push them to next?

utilizing the cards, you know, typically on YouTube videos, you can [00:42:00] see that there are cards that pop up and say like, you know, the YouTuber will say like, Hey, if you’re interested in watching that video, you know, click up here and it will, It’ll allow you to, you know, check out that next video. But those cards are super valuable too, because if you are talking about something inside of your podcast, you can direct them there.

So a lot of it is about this metadata that is, that is built in directly to YouTube, right? And this metadata gives you. the opportunity to be in front of people, but also gives you the opportunity to analyze, go into your analytics and see where, where people are falling off on your podcast.

Maybe they don’t listen to the whole podcast or maybe you’re seeing dips in the podcast. And you can see those in actual graphs on YouTube where people are falling off and you’re like, ah, I’m not listening to this. I’m quitting that. And that allows you to create better content. And I’ll be, I’ll be the first one to tell you that.

going back into republishing my own podcast or rebooting everything, I had this grand idea of like, Oh, this is how I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it like a radio program. It’s going to be, you know, [00:43:00] commercial, all that stuff. And then you go and you look in your analytics and then it’s like, you know, you know, womp, womp, you know, you’re just like, wow, the analytics on that aren’t really that great.

So you got to go back in and, and reconfigure how you’re creating the podcast. Right. And so. Podcasting and radio are two completely, different entities in terms of how the delivery is, but, you know, because we have a different delivery system inside of YouTube, how we, how we consume that content, we’re typically looking for that hook.

I mean, if you go back to the, the beginning of this podcast and Jeff starts it out with a question, you know, have you ever thought about starting a podcast on YouTube? He starts with a hook and that’s typically what YouTube videos are all about. So I’m trying to now start, the last couple of episodes, I’ve really been trying to start out with a hook.

But getting back to your, your, your question, Connor, it’s all that metadata. It’s the things that people are, the things that podcasters are not doing on YouTube is they’re not filling out those fields. They’re just publishing and running. And that’s a huge, huge, Thing that they need to, to go back and recon, rethink.

All right. utilizing [00:44:00] the captions that you can upload into YouTube or search Optimize. So when you upload those captions and you get that SRT file or that TXT file, upload those into YouTube. So that allows the YouTube search engine to go ahead and put that in front of the eyes that are looking for your podcast.

Jeff Sieh: I have a question about that real quick, because is it better to up? I know YouTube will generate its own titles. I mean, their own captions and they’re pretty bad. Is that why you upload your own? because you want to make sure they’re a hundred percent correct.

Shannon Hernandez: I want to make sure they’re, I mean, they should be 100 percent correct, right? But I, I think with the tools that we have now that are available with the AI that we have now, I want them more correct because it allows, it would allow probably for a better search discovery. That’s my opinion. I wouldn’t say that that’s an industry standard.

I would say that’s what I do. you know, you can pull those from the script, obviously. you know, although. I have found another tool called TurboScribe and I’ve been, I’ve been utilizing it and it’s, the transcriptions are, [00:45:00] I feel a lot better than a descript is what I feel. that, you know, so I would say that if you’re going to jump into something like that and you want to add TurboScribe into, you know, your, your mix or your workflow mix, you can do that.

But I would say the descript transcripts are, they will do just fine. I have just found a little more, I don’t know if it’s success, you know, uh, in terms of delivery of my podcast or my YouTube podcast to someone else, but I typically like getting those transcripts. And, you know, when you subscribe to a TurboScribe account, it’s unlimited transcriptions.

So I utilize it not only for the transcripts of my podcast, but I flesh out ideas. I flesh out the ideas and then I do them all in audio. I upload them in the transcript and or into TurboScribe and I get a transcript and it will create summaries for me. It has chat GPT prompts to create the summaries for me and that is, that to me is valuable in the iteration processes of building out my podcasts.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. You

Conor Brown: have a follow up for for that more [00:46:00] around metadata and stuff. You know, you mentioned Turbo scribe Shannon, but do you have use other tools like a, maybe a two buddy or a Vid IQ or you know, chat GPT Descrip to help you formulate those titles, those captions, the metadata, the the tags? Do you have tools that help you with all that?

Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up. Cause I didn’t mean to mention that, Connor. Yeah. I am a, I am a subscriber of TubeBuddy. I love TubeBuddy, but if you want to use vidIQ, I would say you probably would see the same success, but the success really lies in the philosophy of how you’re utilizing that tool.

And you must utilize that tool because it’s not only going to help you optimize the metadata inside of your descriptions or your YouTube video, but it’s going to, it’s going to save you a lot of time because there are a lot of steps that you have to take when you’re uploading a video to YouTube.

for instance, when we talk about metadata, another key piece of metadata are timestamps and timestamps are a huge thing. And while I, I had felt at the time [00:47:00] that timestamps would be a disservice to my podcast, because, uh, It’s giving, I thought it would be giving the viewer the ability to skip directly to where they needed to go and then just, you know, they’re watching and then they’re dropping off.

YouTube says, no, this is a really good idea because for that very reason they’re going to where they need to go and they listen. It gives more viewers the opportunity to see where they need to listen and it increases view and watch time. On your channel. And I thought, that seems counterproductive, but that’s what, at least how I had interpreted it.

And I thought to myself, oh, that’s, that’s interesting. So I just started incorporating, you know, I, I’ve always incorporated timestamps, but being able to use the tool in Tube, buddy. And when you’re going in and you are. Finding those moments of your timestamping. You are, you know, I listened to it at 2x speed and my podcasts have shortened down quite a bit.

They don’t even go for an hour. They’re doing about 40 to 30 to 40 minutes and I can listen at 2x speed and I can utilize the tool into [00:48:00] Buddy and in conjunction with the notes that I have written down so that I can write down the title of what that section is about. It just goes by super fast. I can get those done for 30 to 40 minute podcast.

I could probably get it done in about 15 minutes.

Jeff Sieh: Wow, so I want to go back to something you said earlier about looking at those graphs and data and we’ve talked about the new YouTuber and podcaster. Those are hard to do, especially when you’re starting and you’re seeing like, Oh, people jumped off when I said my name, they must hate my name. I got to change my name.

You know, and to be honest, one time I was on Dave Jackson’s show and he, he asked permission, but he, he showed like, he edited a, a video interview that I was on. He’s like, Oh, Jeff, he already said that I’m going to cut that. And it was really humbling to watch like your performance getting axed. And it’s the same way when you’re going through your own, your own conversations going, Oh, I could really do a better job, like making this faster or act, you know, asking this quicker or whatever, and editing your own project at [00:49:00] first helps you do that.

And I’m going to pull up a comment from Dave. He goes, if you don’t get your why, you burn out. And if you don’t educate or entertain, you don’t grow your audience. And going back and looking at those stats and graphics and seeing where you can improve may be hard to do. out and it may be hard to listen to yourself.

You But that’s how you grow because if you find out why you’re not education, educating people, or entertaining people, then you need to improve that and, you know, then you can, you can maybe grow your, your audience. But anyway, thanks for that, Dave, and for raking me over the coals.

Shannon Hernandez: Let me tell you something. I’ll, I’ll keep it real quick, but you know, I’m going to grab this real quick. Cause I just put these away. You know, when I talk about doing, um, show notes and I talk about doing anything that has to deal with timestamping, like these, see, these are all my notes that I’m writing.

I’m writing all these notes down and these are from previous shows. And these, these are really great for helping me whenever I’m publishing. I mean, simply just, It’s I’ve, I’ve titled them out. I’ve created headers of what each section is about. So when I go [00:50:00] in and I do that, the pre editing or the editing that I’m doing is a lot of pre editing.

So I don’t have to, I don’t have to focus on the edit in the, on the backend. If that, if that makes sense, I don’t have to focus on editing on the backend. You know, you do something, you get humbled by someone, they just cut that out. Right. Then you go, Oh gosh, you know, so how can you become a better presenter?

Well, be a better presenter by preparing, right. Right. Prepare a little bit better. And then that can really cut the curve down in terms of how you are publishing your podcast, because. I’m not going to lie. I mean, and I’m not trying to say this to discourage anyone to do a podcast on YouTube. I’m just going to tell them that yes, in the beginning, it seems very, very cumbersome, but once you learn the process, of filling out your metadata, and let’s just even take it back a little step further.

Once you figure out the process of recording your podcast based on how you’re going to have to upload it, then it becomes a lot easier. And then you go, Oh, well this is, I’m going to have to do all this inside of YouTube. So I might as well [00:51:00] incorporate it inside. of how I present my podcast so that I can create shareable clips within, my podcast.

I mean, I know you do a really great job of, job of doing that yourself, when we see your stuff, Jeff, because you create these shareable clips inside of Descript and then you’re just dist, you’re distributing them everywhere. So you’re thinking ahead and I think that’s where podcasters must think is that they have to think ahead.

This concept is no different than how we do it in radio. We’ve done this in radio for many, many years. So when you’re seeing podcasters do something similar, you’re like, Oh, well, they’re, you know, they’re just taking an idea from radio, but it’s not an idea, a radio from an idea from radio. It’s an idea about being smart, working smarter, not harder.

That’s, that’s all it is.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and Gary has a great quote, it says, 100 percent preparation is so important. And right down. To even the selection of the guest. Yes, I do. We do a lot of, it may not look it, but we do a lot of prep for this show. and in fact, I talked about it at Podfest about how we come up with questions and interview and all that kind of stuff.

So, it is a [00:52:00] lot of work, but it is a labor of love. As I know, a lot of you creators. Here, like Chris Stone, Duck Rock, Gary Anderson, have that passion for this. But, you know what? we are out of time. Like, I, we didn’t get to half of what I want to talk about. So, we will definitely have Shannon back for part two.

I know you had some great questions. we wouldn’t be able to do the show without our folks over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Save 15 percent on your first purchase by using code JEFF15. Doc is also part of Ecamm’s, group. He’s in the chat. If you have any questions about Ecamm, he would be more than, more than willing to help you out with that, but it is a great community, a great group of people, but Shannon Hernandez, you’ve got some cool stuff going on.

I want to give, people a chance to connect with you, tell them about your services, all of your things. I know you have got a great, new little, uh, like newsletter you’re putting together at thepodcasttherapist. com forward slash amplify. So I want you guys to all go check that out. But Shannon, [00:53:00] I’ll let you talk.

the floor is yours,

Shannon Hernandez: Yeah. So this is something new that I’ve gone ahead and I’m, I’m, I’m, I’m developing and building it out right now. it’s going to be a newsletter and it’s really more of a chance for me to not just connect with the podcasters, but it is my ability. It’s my, my purpose really is to help, right. It’s to help and share not only valuable tips, but also share insight from my 25 years in radio and how a lot of these, these strategies, a lot of how these, what you’re doing with your podcast, how they all fit together through utilizing, you know, promotional marketing techniques.

And so that’s what, going to my newsletter is all about. It’s called Frequency Amplified and, it’s obviously a play on some radio stuff, but it really applies to. podcasters too. And so I’m really going to connect with them, share these stories out. And I’m in the next couple of weeks, I’m going to be launching that.

And I’m going to, be sharing at least one newsletter to them a week, and then hopefully ramp that up to two. So, I encourage you to go over [00:54:00] to thepodcasttherapist. com slash amplify. And it’s just a landing page and, uh, you just go sign up right there and, you’ll start getting those newsletters whenever I start publishing them.

So I’m looking forward to actually writing, I was a former teacher. I love to write. I love to just, that’s how I, that’s what I love to do as well. I mean, I love to podcast as well, but,hopefully get on the newsletter.

Jeff Sieh: So that’s thepodcasttherapist. com forward slash amplify. So make sure you guys check that out because, as Chris Stone has said, Shan man is the man is shows are chock full of valuable stuff for podcasters of all levels outstanding. And if Chris Stone says it. It is true.

Shannon Hernandez: It’s gospel. It’s gospel.

Conor Brown: Gospel.

Jeff Sieh: Brown.

It is 80 degrees here in Texas, but it’s not going to stay that way. It’s going to be cold. I’m going to want to take a trip. Tell me what I need to do, to find out the best vacation planning services on the planet.

Conor Brown: Yeah, I was gonna say, unless you’re Doc Rock in Hawaii, you’re probably in someplace cold right now. If you want to escape, come someplace warm. You can reach out to me at Connor, C-O-N-O-R, [00:55:00] at vacation kingdoms.com. I can help you book a trip to somewhere warmer theme parks, cruises, all inclusives. I’d love to help you out.

Fantastic show. It’s always great having Shannon on the airwaves

Jeff Sieh: Yes, and for all you podcasters out there, you guys are doing a great job. I know there’s a lot of people in the comments watching us live who are content creators. It is hard work. But you guys are appreciated. I am appreciative of you. Thank you guys for all of your support. Thank you guys for watching today and ask us any questions.

I know Shane will be in the comments as well, but uh, wherever you’re watching, make sure you just ask those questions and we’ll try to get back to you with that. We thank you guys. Have a great weekend. We’ll see you next time. Bye everybody.