SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello, folks. Welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. Uh, this is going to be a fun show. Uh, we’re going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects, AI, and I’ve got my friend Rich Brooks here. Um, let’s just come, because you got to leave maybe a little bit early. Let’s continue the conversation.

[00:00:15] Jeff Sieh: So some of you guys may have seen this, and this is pre show stuff, this won’t be in the podcast, but, uh, you may have seen the, the AI avatar that I did of Rich that went out on the thumbnail for the show. And Rich is like, listen, I have never I even put it on the LinkedIn post. I’ve never been able to create an AI image.

[00:00:32] Jeff Sieh: Like that before. And so I was telling him how, and then we ran out of time. So I’m going to share it with you guys. So what I do is it’s created in mid journey. And what I do is I get it as close as I can. I just use one, Rich sent me one of his headshots. And so what I was able to do was I uploaded that into mid journey.

[00:00:49] Jeff Sieh: They have a new web based editor, which is really, really cool. And there’s three types of image references you can do. There’s just a regular image reference, there’s a character reference, and there’s a style [00:01:00] reference. So with that image of Rich, I actually did it as a image reference. There’s a, I kind of go back and forth between the character reference or the image reference, whichever one works the best.

[00:01:11] Jeff Sieh: And then I get it as close as I can. So the picture of the, the guy, um, they’re working with a clipboard. I got it. It was like rich, but not really. And I get it as close as I can. And that individual image actually was kind of cropped, uh, pretty tight. And I find with the face swapping software I use, the further out I get, the more, the more love it gives me.

[00:01:33] Jeff Sieh: So I pulled back with it, which you can do that now inside of MidJourney. You can zoom back. And I zoom back and then I use a face swapping software. I think it’s called Pixa AI. I’ll drop it in the show notes. And I face swapped it with the original image that Richard sent me. Uh, it’s actually, you do it inside of Discord.

[00:01:50] Jeff Sieh: It’s one of those old school kind of things, but it works really well. It’s the best one I have used. So that’s how I got. That image. So

[00:01:57] Rich Brooks: Because my mom was wondering how you captured my [00:02:00] dimple, because AI always seems to blur over my dimples, and my mom is really upset she’s writing a letter to OpenAI right now.

[00:02:07] Jeff Sieh: you go. It, it did. I was really impressed. I mean, and that was my first, ’cause usually sometimes I have to kind of mess with it in Photoshop. Sometimes it’ll get some eyes funky, but if you get a good profile shot from, from somebody, then you’re able to do that. So it was able to, to jump right in. So, uh, we’ve already got

[00:02:21] Rich Brooks: play around with that.

[00:02:22] Jeff Sieh: yeah, we’ve got some of our friends already showing up.

[00:02:24] Jeff Sieh: We’ve got the amazing. A. I. Maestro himself, Dustin Stout, is here, um, trying to pull it up, and for some reason, my, uh, it’s not pulling up my, uh, comments. Oh, there it is. Very, very small. Just going a little slow. And then Rich, uh, I mean, Jim Few says, uh, Hello, gentlemen. Is that Rich or A. I. Rich? Yeah, that’s true.

[00:02:44] Jeff Sieh: Who,

[00:02:45] Rich Brooks: Jim, it is really me.

[00:02:47] Jeff Sieh: Yes, and our friend AskRalph is here as well, so we’ve got all sorts of people showing up in the house. We’ve got Megan Powers, too. We’ve got, uh, Chris Stone from Castaheads, goes, The more love the face swapping software gives you, the better. That’s true. [00:03:00] Um, and I’m supposed he wants me to turn off the dimple remover function in the AI Underlords, so.

[00:03:06] Jeff Sieh: That is really cool. Yeah, so that’s the that’s how we do it. I wanted to tell you guys the beginning. So right now, I’m gonna go ahead and start the actual official podcast. Hit go on the podcast machine, and we will get started. Hello folks, welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:03:22] Jeff Sieh: And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and so much more. Have you ever wondered how to seamlessly integrate AI into your marketing without losing your personal touch? Maybe you’re curious about how AI can help you refine your content and make it more impactful.

[00:03:39] Jeff Sieh: Or maybe you’re looking for practical ways to improve your website and reach the right audience. If those questions resonate well, you are in the right place. This week, we’re excited to welcome someone who’s Who’s mastered the art of blending creativity and technology. Rich Brooks, founder of Flight New Media, will be sharing his insights, workflows, and go to strategies for using [00:04:00] AI in content creation and website optimization.

[00:04:03] Jeff Sieh: So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Rich, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:04:12] Rich Brooks: I’m doing great. What an energetic intro. I’m just trying to match your, your level of, of, of excellent excitement

[00:04:19] Jeff Sieh: Well, I’m excited to have you here. Um, I was on, uh, Rich’s podcast not very long ago, and, uh, we, we talked about some AI workflows, kind of the image based stuff, so I don’t know if that’s come out yet, but when it comes out, go check it out, because it was a great deep dive into image creation over on Agents of Change podcast.

[00:04:36] Jeff Sieh: But if you don’t know Rich, he is a founder and president of Flight New Media, a digital agency in Portland, Maine, He’s been in business for over 27 years, so he knows what he’s talking about. He is a nationally recognized speaker on entrepreneurship, digital marketing, and social media. So he founded the Agents of Change, an annual conference and weekly podcast that focuses on search, social, and mobile marketing, and he’s also [00:05:00] the author of Of the lead machine, the social biz, the small business guide to digital marketing.

[00:05:05] Jeff Sieh: It’s a popular and well received book that helps entrepreneurs and marketers reach more of their ideal customers online. You need to go check out that book. You need to check out Rich’s podcast because he is the man. He’s been around for a while and, uh, he knows what he’s talking about. So I’m excited to dive into this with you today, Rich.

[00:05:22] Rich Brooks: Well, I’m excited to be here. I always love coming on your show and I always love, I always learn something new from you every time, so.

[00:05:27] Jeff Sieh: Well, we’ll see if that happens today, because you’re on the spot. I want to know your workflows, um, but we’re gonna, just gonna jump right into it, because I want to talk about the, we’re, we’re kind of going into really what’s practical for AI workflows at this current time, and Using AI for content creation.

[00:05:42] Jeff Sieh: When we were talking about this show, you were telling me a little bit about your process and I wanted to kind of dive into that because you were specifically talking about kind of writing and I wanted to know how AI has transformed your approach to like researching topics before you even start, you know, crafting that article or [00:06:00] whatever you’re putting out.

[00:06:02] Rich Brooks: Yeah. And it’s a great question because I guess it was a year and a half ago that I went to Macon, the marketing AI conference that they have every year in Cleveland. And I think the first year for me was just like, opened my mind to, Oh my God, look at all the amazing things that can happen and all these promises of 10xing your output and your workflow and everything like that.

[00:06:21] Rich Brooks: Um, And it was exciting and it was fun, but when I went back this year, I was more interested in like really how do you implement it into your workflow, because I found that I was using it only like probably one tenth of what it could be. Um, I had experimented a little bit. One of the experiments that I ran is we internally at Flight decided that we needed to have an article explaining, uh, Google Tag Manager, GTM.

[00:06:46] Rich Brooks: And I said, you know what, let me take this one. I’m just going to write on it. It’s not my area of expertise. I barely conceptually understand it, you know, because I’ve moved away from the day to day stuff and the hands on analytics stuff. I just like looking at the, the final product. [00:07:00] I used AI to train it to speak like me.

[00:07:03] Rich Brooks: Uh, and we can go into each, into that one, and then I had it write out an article, uh, write out a framework, and then I basically had it write the article, like I, in this experience, I was like, I wanted to do most of the heavy lifting for me, I, I think I went back and forth between ChatGPT and Claude asking it to continually improve it, and I got a final version, I handed it off to my team, they said, And 90 percent of it was accurate in terms of what it said.

[00:07:27] Rich Brooks: Uh, they did complain about how many metaphors, uh, the, the fake Rich Brooks used. And I love using metaphors. It’s literally a joke in our office. Like I’m always explaining things by using some other thing. Uh, and when I trained it in my writing and then I reinforced the, uh, the personalized GPT that I like to use metaphors.

[00:07:49] Rich Brooks: It’s like. Every sentence was a metaphor. I took out before I handed it off to them, like 40 percent of those. And they still complained that it was just way too much in terms of metaphors. They weren’t consistent men of all this sort of [00:08:00] stuff. We published it, uh, you know, after it had gone through all the, our regular editorial process, I think it has probably been one of our least successful blog posts in the history of the company, quite honestly.

[00:08:10] Rich Brooks: I don’t know if it’s a topic. I don’t know if it’s just that, you know, like AI writing or whatever. It was a good process to go through. To learn about the strengths and weaknesses, but it has informed how I write going forward. So we can certainly talk about like, right now I’m in the mindset, and I have a new blog post coming out that I wrote, um, that kind of talks about my process now.

[00:08:32] Rich Brooks: And it’s how I use AI right up until the point where I start to write. Where I put pen to paper, although that’s metaphoric. And then as soon as I’m done with what I consider to be my first or second draft, how I use AI the rest of the way. And I’m happy to kind of break that down. My process is ever evolving.

[00:08:50] Rich Brooks: You know, I, I’m not an expert. I’m just a everyday user and I’m starting to figure out where and when to use it in different ways and, and how it helps me. And [00:09:00] then also how it helps the rest of my team, because we all contribute to the Flight Blog at this point. Um, not everybody has the same voice, obviously.

[00:09:06] Rich Brooks: I used to do all the writing for the company. And so, how we’re starting to implement AI into our processes.

[00:09:12] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I’d like to, I would like to dive into that. I would like to like, okay. New blog article. What’s your process? Kind of walk us through, like, even the research, because, I mean, I’m always grabbing new ways to research things using AI, and I’m assuming that you are too, so, yeah, take us through those, that process.

[00:09:28] Rich Brooks: So, I guess the first step is, Are we doing it for ourselves or are we doing it for a client? So Flighty Media is a digital agency. We do a lot of content creation. Uh, we’re big in SEO. So we do a lot of blog posts for our clients who don’t have the time or the expertise to write blog posts for themselves.

[00:09:46] Rich Brooks: So if it’s me and it’s a topic I know about, usually where I’ll start is, um, I’ve created some buyer personas in chat GPT and I use chat GPT the most, but I will sometimes play around with some other tools, but [00:10:00] I would. Basically pull our buyer personas. And for us, it’s usually our best work or our favorite type of work is when we’re working with either the owners of small to medium sized businesses or the, um, or the head of marketing for these groups.

[00:10:14] Rich Brooks: So we’ve created these buyer personas. We understand their pain points. We understand their desires. We understand why they would Google certain things and try and get more information on something. And we want to introduce ourselves and our areas of expertise to these people. So, The two things that I think are critically important to good content these days is understanding that buyer persona.

[00:10:33] Rich Brooks: So we’ve talked about that. We, we get those buyer personas in there and then also writing in the brand voice. And for me, when I’m writing, I don’t worry about that too much because Flight’s voice is my voice. But you know, in other situations, you may need to train it up and teach it probably better than I did when I did my original version of what is the brand voice, and there’s a lot of different versions out there, but basically you Give ChatGPT samples of [00:11:00] your writing style.

[00:11:01] Rich Brooks: Some people believe that you should give it different styles of writing, like here’s some of my blog posts and here’s some of my email newsletters and here’s a chapter from a book I wrote. And then you can also go to Facebook or LinkedIn and gather your last year or two of social media posts from those different platforms and then also upload those to ChatGPT to train it in your voice.

[00:11:22] Rich Brooks: Some people like to get all of those styles together in one.

[00:11:28] Rich Brooks: Custom GPT. Other people prefer to have specialized ones like, in my case, the Rich Brooks. It’s like the Rich Brooks email style, the Rich Brooks social media style, the Rich Brooks blog post style, and so on. So, I would recommend, just like you use different you try different things in MidJourney to get different results, or just to see what’s the best one in this case, I would recommend doing the same.

[00:11:50] Rich Brooks: Maybe having a GPT that, has been trained on all your writing styles and then other ones that are more niche like email or script [00:12:00] writing or, or videos, whatever it may be. So using those two things together. The brand voice and the idea or the buyer persona. That’s when I get to work. If it’s something that I know a lot about, like SEO or entrepreneurship or what have you, or AI, I know how to write it, but what I’ll usually do is I like, well, so I don’t need to do as much research in these cases.

[00:12:24] Rich Brooks: So I’m probably just going to start to want to write. So what I’ll often do is ask GPT. To create a framework around the topic, what are the things that I should be talking about, keeping in mind this buyer persona, keeping in mind this brand voice, and ChatGPT will do a pretty good job of outlining everything that it recommends that I put in here, and I think this is one of the best things that you can use AI for, because humans are not great It’s seeing what we don’t think about.

[00:12:52] Rich Brooks: So it would be very common. Like if I was going to write about AI, I might not think about like the ethical considerations of using AI on a [00:13:00] blog post or something like that. So it will often include things usually trained on other blog posts that are similar, um, to kind of pull in these ideas. I also might use it if, you know, one of the things that helps us keep our, um, Blog posts human and more difficult to replicate from AI is by pulling in expert quotes.

[00:13:20] Rich Brooks: So if I was going to write a blog post, say, on AI image generation, um, I might say to ChatGPT, who are some of the experts in this field? Who are some of the luminaries? And of course, Jeff’s name is going to come up. So it says Jeff Sieh, you know, it gives me information. Now I can just reach out to Jeff Sieh, so that’s not a big deal, but in other cases it might be somebody I don’t know, so it might tell me here’s your link, here’s their LinkedIn bio, here’s this, here’s that, and then I could do some outreach, and most people are more than happy to give a quote because it just means a link back to their website anyways, so I might get three to five quotes from experts that I could pull in as well.

[00:13:56] Rich Brooks: I might also ask it, You know, how do I [00:14:00] get out of, like, the regular way of writing this blog post? Like, I might say, you know, for this article on, and we’ll stick with AI image generation, for this article on AI image generation, what are some of the topics or themes that the most popular blogs haven’t been talking about?

[00:14:17] Rich Brooks: So I’ve already got the framework, but now I’m asking it to kind of think outside the box, even though that’s a phrase I absolutely hate, um, and it may pull back some things, or I could ask, in some of these ideas, I’ve seen these prompts from, from the people I follow, like Andy Crestodina, where it might be like, what are some of the most controversial beliefs that are held amongst the world’s most influential people.

[00:14:35] Rich Brooks: About AI image generation, what are some of the things that the leaders in this industry don’t want you to know? So asking these kind of questions can often generate some new ideas that will really separate you from everybody else. And that’s really important from an SEO standpoint as well, in my opinion, besides just a user, uh, uh, uh, user perspective, because Google does not, is not going to rank The 400th article [00:15:00] on AI image generation that’s just like the previous 399.

[00:15:03] Rich Brooks: So you need to have a fresh perspective. You need to have a fresh voice. And you need to find something that other people haven’t talked about yet. That’s why bringing in those expert quotes is good. And that’s why also, like, this perspective. AI is really good on ideation. And it might help you find that one little thread or idea that most of the, most of the big blogs out there don’t have.

[00:15:25] Rich Brooks: I haven’t really tackled or shying away from that you can bring in something like that as well.

[00:15:30] Jeff Sieh: So quick question on, on when you’re pulling in those quotes from people, do you actually, so it, cause they can make, it can make stuff up. Like it will. And one of the reasons I like to use perplexity is I can go with really easy and find those, you know, go and find the actual sources. So do you send it off to your team to make sure that those quotes are right?

[00:15:48] Jeff Sieh: Or do you do it while you’re in the process of writing the article? How does that easily work to make sure that those expert quotes are really accurate?

[00:15:56] Rich Brooks: That’s a great question and I’m glad you asked it because, to clarify, if it [00:16:00] said Jeff Sieh and even had some quotes from you, I wouldn’t use that. I would actually reach out to you and I would say, I’m writing a blog post on this topic, I’d love to include you. Do you have a quote on maybe one of these couple of topics?

[00:16:12] Rich Brooks: And the reason is, first of all, I don’t want something that you’ve already used before. I want something fresh, um, maybe a different take on something. And then also, I would never use a quote, I shouldn’t say never, but it would be unlikely in my writing that I would use a quote without permission. So I’d want, and this is again, you know, as we think about how do you make connections online, how do you find the right people, how do you build your tribe?

[00:16:33] Rich Brooks: Like this is just a great opportunity. I’m telling Jeff, hey, look, I’ve identified you as one of the leaders, thought leaders in this industry. Can I get a quote from you? I’ll link back to your website or whatever you want me to. That’s just a positive thing. Jeff’s going to look at me, whether he knows me or not, in a more positive light.

[00:16:50] Rich Brooks: And he might then start checking out some of my stuff. And this is building relationships online 101. So that’s how I would approach it. Um, so I might do things like that. Bring in some of [00:17:00] that, some of that fresh content, um, get the framework. So I know exactly what I want to write. And I might also, because I said like we.

[00:17:09] Rich Brooks: Oh, we, for every blog post we write, both internally and externally, we always do some keyword research first. And keyword research, if you don’t have a tool like Ahrefs or Moz or one of these paid tools that an agency like mine is going to have, you can just go to ChatGPT and say, you know, if, you know, what are some of the most likely keywords that people would search on?

[00:17:32] Rich Brooks: Around the topic of AI image generation. Now, we’re not necessarily testing these beliefs, but AI can do a pretty good job based on some of the information that’s already out there, some of the searches that have been done, all this other sort of stuff. Um, Um, on what these topics, what these keywords might be.

[00:17:48] Rich Brooks: And so very often it will just pull a list of keywords and you can either use your own judgment. Yes, these words make sense to me or they don’t make sense to me. And so I’ll drop them off. Whenever I’m doing a [00:18:00] podcast, uh, I use, uh, I created a podcast assistant GPT. So, you know, on Jeff’s episode, which I think is upcoming, although, you know, I’ve been traveling so much, I’ve kind of lost track of time here.

[00:18:11] Rich Brooks: After I get the transcript from Jeff, I might feed that into chat GPT and say, what are some of the most likely keywords that we should optimize this, this, the show notes for, um, from an SEO standpoint, and it’ll provide them for me. And because I’ve been doing this long enough, I can kind of vet them. In fact, what I’ll do is pull all the best keywords out, and then I’ll ask you to prioritize those keywords based on the likeliness Um, of search volume.

[00:18:36] Rich Brooks: So that also helps me decide what’s most, what I should really focus on. If, if it gives me 10 or 20, one of the top three to five based on search volume. So those kinds of prompts can also help you start to focus some of your stuff. If you are. Investing in some of these more expensive tools. You can use tools like Ahrefs and Moz to do the actual keyword research to get the actual up to the moment data from [00:19:00] Google on what the search volumes are on these.

[00:19:02] Rich Brooks: Another tool that I love to use, and we can go into it a little bit more detail, is called Market Muse, which is both good for doing the research and it’s an AI powered tool. Good for doing the research, as well as taking current blog posts or web pages on your website and giving you live editing features that tell you, um, from an on page optimization standpoint, what keywords you should be using, how often they should be using, based on the top 20 ranking pages for that keyword.

[00:19:31] Rich Brooks: So these are also some tools that you can use as well. But up front, if I’m in a rush, I might just say, what are the most likely keywords, You know, organize them or prioritize them based on search volume or, uh, or the ability for me to rank well for these search terms. And then I’ve got all those pages or all those terms.

[00:19:49] Rich Brooks: I usually list them at the top of the page or in a document by the side so I can refer back to them. I’ve got the framework that, uh, ChatGPT has been kind enough to create for me. And that’s when I start to [00:20:00] write. And it doesn’t mean that I’m necessarily going to follow every single header and subheader that ChatGPT lays out for me.

[00:20:07] Rich Brooks: Likely I won’t. I just see it as, you know, my research assistant at this point. So it’s like, if I was telling an intern or a younger, uh, a newer employee on my team, I need you to do this research for me. He or she would bring that back to me. I’ve got this and now I’m going to go to work. And this is where I just turn on my human brain.

[00:20:26] Rich Brooks: And just based on if I’m writing for flight, if I’m writing in an area that I feel like I’m already, if not an expert on, That I’m well spoken on, so I apologize, I’m so out of practice I forgot to shut off my phone, and WHO USES THE PHONE ANYMORE, PEOPLE? Yeah, so, um, anyway, so, uh, where was I?

[00:20:49] Jeff Sieh: you were talking about, um, when you were going through the process and you’re writing, it was more natural for you use it as a research assistant or an intern, um, kind of way.

[00:20:59] Rich Brooks: [00:21:00] I think at this point it’s just like, I just sit down and I start writing it, and I write it out and I start going, you know, section by section, if I don’t think something’s relevant, I skip over it. You have to use your own. Now, this is different than when we’re writing for one of our clients. Like we’re writing for a company that does wood fiber insulation.

[00:21:17] Rich Brooks: We are not the experts in wood fiber insulation, even though we’ve been working for two years writing blog posts for this company, right? So in that case, we’ve got. Our own GPT set up for a buyer persona for that company. We’ve got the company voice if they have a brand voice, you know, and if they don’t, if we haven’t been doing the writing for them or if we have, again, take samples, get that voice up there.

[00:21:39] Rich Brooks: So that’s another, we can still get that same framework, get those benefits. But again, I might need to do some additional research. Using AI as well as traditional search to make sure that I understand the concept or my, it’s usually my team doing that work, that they understand the concept so they can write that blog post from a place of [00:22:00] authority.

[00:22:00] Rich Brooks: So that part is a little bit different if you’re writing on a topic that you may not be an expert in.

[00:22:04] Jeff Sieh: Because we had that question and a mastermind was on because somebody was using it and they’re trying to use it for clients. And they were just going in and saying, just forget, don’t add it to my memory when they were, you know, using chat GBT. So you actually go in for each one of your clients and they have their own specific GBT, and then you switch between those when you’re writing for those specific clients.

[00:22:21] Jeff Sieh: Is that way I understand it?

[00:22:23] Rich Brooks: Yeah, so you can always go back. So you can always go back to. That original thread, and it’s only going to remember what’s in that thread. So you can start a new thread and you can, uh, if you do have multiple clients or multiple audiences, or maybe train just that thread rather than doing a custom GPT, because a custom GPT tends to have really short term memory.

[00:22:44] Rich Brooks: So it doesn’t remember everything that you’ve done. Um, Or actually it’ll continue to build on it. So you want to have just that one thread if you are, have multiple clients or whatever the case may be, and you just keep those things separate for sure. And in a perfect world, in the direction that we’re heading in [00:23:00] is we’ll probably in 2025 be setting up clients with their own version of ChatGPT and basically sharing that with them.

[00:23:09] Rich Brooks: So creating the ICPs, the, uh, the buyer persona is the ideal customer. personas and the brand voices and having them there. So I’m assuming that the next step for us will be as we’ll be basically setting them up on chat GPT or could be a different platform, but and then we would go in and they would have all that content so they could do their own content creation as well as we would be leveraging that as well.

[00:23:32] Jeff Sieh: So I know, I mean, you have a big monster company, uh, with a lot of clients, but for somebody who has a smaller company, you could probably, and I know Dustin’s here in the chat, and I know you can set up different personas inside of Magi, which I have used before for different. thing. So that could be something that you could use as well.

[00:23:50] Jeff Sieh: I’m, I’m, I’m pretty sure that would work, uh, in

[00:23:52] Rich Brooks: I’m pretty sure I’m just starting with Magi. I have it. I haven’t used it as much. I love the smorgasbord [00:24:00] approach to it where I can try different platforms, but sometimes I actually like to be in the platform itself because sometimes it’s just easier to work within that platform. So I think there’s pros and cons to both.

[00:24:11] Rich Brooks: And it just depends. It’s like Google Drive versus Microsoft Office. Like, whatever flavor you like and you get used to, that’s the best one for

[00:24:20] Jeff Sieh: but Magi, it’s great for testing it out, I mean, and using them in that way because, I mean, that’s what I tell it, especially for image stuff. I always tell people to try that one first. Um, going back, okay, so your article is done, pretty much, you’ve got it for kind of the final draft mode. Do you use AI for polishing it up and maybe finding some new keywords that you forgot or what’s the process after you’ve got the article complete?

[00:24:43] Rich Brooks: Yeah, so once I’ve done that, and so, Previously, before we started really integrating AI into our workflow here at Flight, we had a process where once somebody was done with the article, they would hand it off to another employee who would basically act as editor and, you know, kind of go through it and make recommendations, grammar, [00:25:00] typos.

[00:25:00] Rich Brooks: Which happened less frequently because there’s AI and everything catching that sort of stuff these days, but, um, or does this make sense, that sort of thing. But now I’m really trying to get my team in the habit of, before you hand it off to somebody else, just run it through ChatGPT looking for recommendations.

[00:25:16] Rich Brooks: So you can use any AI tool like this and just say, how would you improve this article? And again, give it that original piece of information. I’m writing for, you know, uh, Homebuilders, I’m writing for directors of marketing, I’m writing for whoever my buyer persona is. This is the audience, these are their pain points, and all that information should already be preloaded in there. Here’s our brand guide. With that in mind, how might you improve this article? And very often it will just spew out a few different things like, and I’m an English major. And I think I’m a damn good writer, right? So I would say that out of every 10 things to chat GPT tells me to do, I’m like nine of them, like, Nope, like, not that you’re wrong.

[00:25:59] Rich Brooks: [00:26:00] Maybe that’s what, you know, like the, you know, it says in the famous English books, but I’m like, this is my style of writing. I’m okay. Starting a sentence with, and I’m okay being a little jokey down here, whatever it is. So you ultimately. Again, I don’t let AI run these things, I just use it as a helper, as an assistant, to improve the work that I’m already doing.

[00:26:19] Rich Brooks: Um, I might also take it from ChatGPT, um, after it’s gone through this, drop it into a different tool, like Claude, ask it for any feedback and stuff like that. I’ve, I’ve sometimes gone back and forth two or three times, Keep on saying, how would you improve this? Make the changes. How would you improve this?

[00:26:35] Rich Brooks: Back and forth, just to see if I can really refine this. I think there’s only so much you can do before these AI tools just start making stuff up to give you some sort of feedback. Um, but I get it to a point where I’m comfortable with it. One of the problems we have as writers is we know the topic, so we write it.

[00:26:55] Rich Brooks: And there’s assumptions that we assume everybody knows that they don’t. [00:27:00] And that’s a really good use of AI too, because we may make some cognitive jump. This is a strange example, but years ago, I remember reading an article about, uh, cookbooks from the revolutionary times in America. And they would often say things like, Cook a squirrel.

[00:27:16] Rich Brooks: Like, that was the instructions. Now, like, these days we’d be like, all right, first of all, where do I source these squirrels? Probably everywhere. But it’s like, and then how do you, like, what are the styles? But back then, this was just information that everybody knew, so you didn’t have to say it. When we’re writing, we think everybody knows that GTM is short for Google, uh, Tag Manager, or we think that everybody knows, you know, what kind of installation this is and that.

[00:27:39] Rich Brooks: They don’t a lot of times. And so using AI to kind of find the gaps in there, that can also be very helpful too, um, and it can find some other problems. And then another thing you could do, if you love SEO, the way that I do, you might say, Let’s go back to these keywords. Based on these keywords, find places within the content [00:28:00] that could be further optimized around these keywords or semantically related keywords.

[00:28:05] Rich Brooks: Provide me the original quote and then, or the original section, and then provide me the recommended improved section. And even if you’re somebody like me, who’s always thinking about SEO in the background, there are plenty of missed opportunities. It doesn’t mean you want Cram all your keywords in there or anything like that, but there’s opportunities that we miss that are totally, uh, appropriate for putting some of those keywords or semantically linked keywords in there.

[00:28:32] Rich Brooks: So that’s another thing you can go through. Or if you have a tool like MarketMuse, you can drop that article into MarketMuse, tell it, you know, what you’re looking to rank well and it will take a look at the top 20 ranking pages, uh, through Google and Same as before, it will tell you based on these 20 pages, this is what Google’s looking for if you want to rank on, you know, near the top.

[00:28:52] Rich Brooks: You know, here’s the average length of the posts that are being, uh, ranked here. Here’s the keywords that are being used, the related keywords that are [00:29:00] being used, um, all these different sort of things. And what’s nice about MarketMuse is you can literally edit the article right there in MarketMuse, and there’s almost like this score card running down the side of the top 20.

[00:29:13] Rich Brooks: Results, keywords, how often they’re used by average and how often you’re using them. And literally as you’re updating your page, you see those numbers coming closer. You see your overall page score going up, hopefully, until you get to a point where you think like, I can now compete on the same level of these other articles.

[00:29:29] Rich Brooks: There’s a lot more to SEO than this. So just because you get a higher score than the number one result does not mean you’ll be the number one result. But the bottom line is for on page optimization and for making sure that the keywords, the length, the intent. of that article are relevant for the type of keywords you want to rank well for.

[00:29:46] Rich Brooks: That’s a great AI power tool to use on that end as well.

[00:29:50] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Well, you mentioned cooking squirrels and you know, I’m from East Texas. So most of my neighbors. That’s, you know, they probably still have those cookbooks because it’s, you know, when it, you know, spring comes, the [00:30:00] squirrel population kind of dies down around you. But, um, super interesting. Um, I want to come back because I want to talk about kind of the final touches, but I was so excited to talk about images before that I forgot to mention our amazing sponsors here on the show, and that is our friends over at Ecamm.

[00:30:15] Jeff Sieh: You can find out more about them at ecamm.com/jeff. Save a j uh, 15% on your first purchase by using the code. Jeff. 15. And by the way, folks, they’ve got a contest going on right now. There’s 10 more days. They’re giving away one of those new shiny new, uh, M four Mac minis. So if you would like to enter for a chance to win that, you can go to e camm tv.

[00:30:37] Jeff Sieh: They’ve got a bunch of other stuff also on, on top of that Mac mini. So if you want to go there, 10 more days, ecamm. tv forward slash giveaway. So go over there and check out my friends at Ecamm’s contest. Um, Rich, going back to images, because, okay, you got the blog finished. You’ve kind of run it through again to see if you’ve missed anything.

[00:30:57] Jeff Sieh: You, I know you just don’t put text, a [00:31:00] big old thing of text on your, um, on your blog. So how do you find the images and are using AI? It’s a great way to use your image generation to create images for those blog posts. Or are you just, are you getting stock photos? How are you populating that and make it a little bit more visually interesting for the reader?

[00:31:16] Rich Brooks: Great question. So, uh, it’s a little bit of a mix. So, I am not as skilled as you, obviously, when it comes to getting the exact image I want out of AI. Uh, and most of the times that I’ve used AI generated images are on blog posts that are about AI. Um, I tend to use AI images a lot more in my slide decks than I do in my blog posts, but I have used them.

[00:31:39] Rich Brooks: Um, I once read that, you know, every screen as you’re, as you’re thinking about scrolling down a page, every screen should have a visual element to it. So just keep the reader’s interest because the attention spans are so short. So depending on what the topic is, I might have, I might use some stock photography for sure.

[00:31:58] Rich Brooks: And if I do, I usually go over [00:32:00] to, we have an account at Adobe stock. It was used to be something like dollar stock photo. They got bought out. Now it’s Adobe stock. Um, so I will often take images from there. When those images don’t match up with my goals, like for example, if I, if I need an image of a backyard barbecue party in Las Vegas, Nevada, which actually came up recently, um, I couldn’t find an image that really worked for me and I wasn’t getting the images out of Midjourney that I wanted.

[00:32:27] Rich Brooks: I found a backyard barbecue image that I liked, but it was like pine trees in the back, did not have that Vegas feel, brought it over, bought the, bought the image. Or, or it was under our license, brought it over to Adobe Photoshop. I removed the background of the pine trees and I used their generative fill.

[00:32:45] Rich Brooks: To basically get the right, uh, background image, the kind of the Adobe style houses that they have in the uh, Las Vegas neighborhoods, and got that image up there. So that to me was a, a great use of using AI even though it was also stock photography. [00:33:00] Um, in certain situations where I don’t need something like, Where I want just to have something that shows the vibe of something, like in this article that I have coming out that talks about some of what we’re talking about today, um, I decided to break up the blog post into three sections, and those sections, it was basically like before the blog post is written, while the blog post is being written, and then after the draft is done, and I used mid journey to create Consistent imagery that just did nothing more than add visual impact to the page in a consistent look and feel.

[00:33:33] Rich Brooks: So I basically used the watercolor style imagery of robots or androids doing some of this work just as a way to visually break up the page a little bit. And then, you know, depending on, we do a lot of stuff where we’re teaching people how to do things online. So I also mix that up with a lot of screen shares and things like that.

[00:33:52] Rich Brooks: So I’ll just use my different tools. Um, trying to think snap what is it snag it is a tool that i use almost [00:34:00] every 15 minutes uh in my job taking images and and drawing lines so people know how to do the things i want them to be able to accomplish

[00:34:07] Jeff Sieh: Something I was just going to tell you real quick for that mid journey when you’re trying to find that Las Vegas reference. What you can do also is take that stock photo and then, Uh, download it. You know, you, it’s on your library. You could upload it to MidJourney and use it as a style reference or an image reference on it and make one based off of that original image if you needed more to do it there.

[00:34:23] Jeff Sieh: So that’s another option, but I loved your generative fill thing. I’ve used stuff like that in the past. All right, I want to jump because this is fascinating and Rich, as you can tell, is a fount of information on this subject. He is a great writer. So make sure you do go to, uh, go over to, uh, TakeFlight.

[00:34:38] Jeff Sieh: com and that spell for you guys listening on the podcast is F L Y T E So takeflight. com and check him out. Um, I want to talk about website optimization. We’ve kind of talked about it a little bit with some of the SEO stuff, but I really want to focus in because I know a lot of creators who are watching this show and, and are listening to this, uh, need help with their landing pages.

[00:34:59] Jeff Sieh: And you [00:35:00] had mentioned in our conversation that you’re using AI to optimize landing pages. So can you kind of walk us through that process and the tools that you use for that?

[00:35:09] Rich Brooks: yeah absolutely so it’s not just landing pages it’s really any page on your website and You know, the reason why businesses hire us at the end of the day is literally to generate more leads and sales for them online. A lot of times those are landing pages, and when I am talking about landing pages, because different people have different definitions, I’m talking about a page that is not part of your navigation, not part of the site map, but the only way to get to this page is through.

[00:35:35] Rich Brooks: Uh, digital ad, like from Google or Facebook, um, or through some email newsletter or some other campaign where nobody’s going to stumble upon this page. We’re talking about a page that has one function, get somebody who’s interested to provide information or to make a buying decision and move forward. So some of the things like.

[00:35:55] Rich Brooks: We, this is a kind of, you know, I’m going to change the names to protect the [00:36:00] not so innocent kind of a thing. But, you know, so we were working with a client recently and they were unhappy because they’re not getting the sales that they were hoping for. Um, and I took a look at their analytics and I could see that ever since we took over their Google ad campaign, we were tripling the amount of visitors to their landing page.

[00:36:18] Rich Brooks: Um, And so it’s frustrating for me, because I’m like, I’m looking at my team, we go through this, it’s like, we’re doing all the right things, we’re driving the right type of traffic, based on the type of searches that we had identified, they get to that page, and the conversion rates just plummet. So in my mind, I’m not saying that it’s the The fault of the landing page, which we didn’t design, but I, I’m like, that’s the next hypothesis we need to test.

[00:36:42] Rich Brooks: Like, that’s the approach that I take. Like, be curious, not judgmental. I’m not saying there’s something wrong with your page. I’m like, let’s try and find out if we can make some changes, if we can improve that conversion rate. Get your sales teams more meetings. So one of the things that we’ve done, and I don’t have a happy ending to the story because it just happened, but you know, this is [00:37:00] the process that we go through.

[00:37:01] Rich Brooks: So yes, I can take a look at a landing page and I have enough experience to see some obvious things that are going on. But these days I find a much faster way is, uh, like you said, with the image, there’s a couple of different approaches I can take. Um, if you have the paid version of ChatGPT, you can give it a URL.

[00:37:19] Rich Brooks: And so Chachibiki can go visit that page as a visitor. Um, you can also give it the source code of that page as well. And then the third option is to create a PDF of that page. And each, each way of sharing that page has pros and cons. So for example, there are certain things that won’t get picked up if you just send it to the URL.

[00:37:40] Rich Brooks: Um, if you give it a PDF of the page and there’s a video on that page or that, you know, something may be hidden until you open up the page. Uh, an accordion or something like that, it might miss it as well, so I might recommend trying a different thing. But I basically would take, in this case, I took a PDF of the page, I already had my list of things that I [00:38:00] thought would, that I’d want to change if this were my page.

[00:38:02] Rich Brooks: I upload the PDF to the page, again I could give it at the URL, and I just say, you are a conversion rate optimization expert. So again, that role and goal approach to all prompts, telling it who they are, giving it Blowing a little smoke up the skirt, so to speak, because it’s like we want it. I don’t know why we want it to feel good about itself, but we don’t, you know, we want to kind of say that you’re the top of this profession.

[00:38:24] Rich Brooks: Um, you know, all these things. Sometimes, like if it’s a copywriting thing, I may list some of the best known copywriters you’ve stuttered, uh, studied under. These kind of people. So it starts to focus their attention on that. I think I’m not inside the black box that is AI, but I think that it starts to say, here are the copywriters that I want you to pay most attention to as you start to think through this.

[00:38:44] Rich Brooks: So I might give it some information like that. And then I’ll say, you’ve been hired to improve the conversion rate optimization for this company’s landing page that does X, Y, and Z. You know, here is their ideal client. Here’s who’s coming to the website. What changes [00:39:00] would you recommend? And, you know, 13 seconds later, whatever, you have this whole list and they’re not always right.

[00:39:06] Rich Brooks: One of the things is it like that I got from this is there’s not any social proof. Well, I knew that there were five testimonials on this page for some reason, chat GPT didn’t pick it up, but this is why we need humans in the mix. At least for now. Um, but it would also give some, um, one of the times that I did it, it was for a buyer’s page on a real estate.

[00:39:24] Rich Brooks: site and one of the things I don’t know that I would have picked up on is it said it’s very factual but it doesn’t talk about any of the emotional aspects of buying a home to really get people to move and I’m like that’s really good like I know that but I didn’t pick it up because I had gone through it already and so then if you’re not if you’re never if you’re not an expert in these things or even if you are you want a second opinion I in that case I just ask like what are some of the factual information.

[00:39:54] Rich Brooks: That’s on the page. List that and then rewrite it to tug at those [00:40:00] heartstrings. And it did it. And even though this is a cold calculating machine, it did a pretty good job about kind of identifying some of those feels that we get when we purchase our first home and provide security for our growing family and all these sorts of things that are Absolutely part of the process.

[00:40:17] Rich Brooks: Human beings are irrational creatures. We only pretend that we’re rational after our gut has already made the decision. We sit there and we rationalize that decision. I know these things, but I, but I don’t think about them a hundred percent of the time, this was an awesome use case. And then I just sat there and I asked, and then I got the language.

[00:40:35] Rich Brooks: I still didn’t love it. It got me close. And so then I rewrote it in a way that I thought. Exactly. And, and so those are some use cases of how you can improve a landing page, and you can do similar things for the rest of your pages as well. And if you happen to not be an expert in these things, you can probably find a white paper or a blog post from somebody you respect and trust who’s written this, train up your GPT in that, [00:41:00] and then you’re off to the races.

[00:41:01] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. We got some questions I wanted to bring on before we move to the last section. Um, um, Dustin asks a question. Does Chattopaddy actually visit the page directly or does it perform a web search and, uh, in search for the page and visit the top matches? I think now, Dustin, and I’m, I need to go play, but I thought it went to the sites.

[00:41:21] Jeff Sieh: If they’re not turned off, like

[00:41:22] Rich Brooks: If it’s a paid version. Right. That’s another good point. Those two things. If you have the paid version, because I think the free version will not scour the web for you. And again, if they have robots turn, or if they, there’s an A in the robots. txt file, you can say no AI. It doesn’t always work, but I would never do that because from my standpoint, the more visibility I have, the better.

[00:41:44] Rich Brooks: And actually the most recent episode of my podcast was interviewing this guy, Will Reynolds, brilliant SEO, uh, search engine optimizer. And he talks a lot about SEO. How much traffic AI may or may not be stealing from search and also the traffic [00:42:00] we’re already losing because of that AI overviews on Google.

[00:42:03] Rich Brooks: And then kind of like how to think about it and approach it in a way that’s going to continue to grow your business. But anyway, so that that’s a great episode for people who also love AI and SEO. But, um, That I, unless you asked it to please go search the top 10 results. I don’t think it’s going to be able to do that.

[00:42:20] Rich Brooks: It’ll just give you that individual page.

[00:42:22] Jeff Sieh: because I mean like if I go to Amazon to search like a description, if I’m doing a a review video, it will not go there. You have to copy and paste the description, but other sites that will follow. In fact, I use it a lot of times when I When I have somebody who’s on my show that I know, but I don’t know that well, I’ll plug in all their information and actually we’ll go and look, because I’ll say, go and follow links of, you know, Rich Brooks and find out, I mean, I already knew Rich, but I mean, find out stuff about him, things I didn’t know, questions to ask that nobody else asked him.

[00:42:48] Jeff Sieh: That’s really helpful to do as well. So, um, one, Other question we had earlier, and this was about Snagit. She goes, uh, Michelle goes, uh, question for people smarter than me. Why use Snagit? I don’t know about that, Michelle, but we’ll [00:43:00] try. Uh, why use Snagit when we can capture anything on my Mac with screenshots and video record, uh, video recording, and I can edit the image in Adobe.

[00:43:06] Jeff Sieh: What does Snagit offer? That’s a great question. I used to use Snagit. I kind of got away from it, but I had it for a while.

[00:43:12] Rich Brooks: Yeah. I, I, some of it just comes down to the Coke versus Pepsi thing. What are you used to? Um, Snagit was a tool that was far superior to anything that Mac was doing back in the day. All you could do is take an entire screen capture. Also, Snagit, like some other screen capture tools, can do things like capturing, and maybe Mac can do this in the latest version too, can capture an entire web page, not like just piece by piece by piece.

[00:43:34] Rich Brooks: Um, it can also do other specific tasks. So that’s the tool that I use for still images. It does capture video too, but I tend to use, um, uh, what is it, uh, ScreenFlow Pro. And again, maybe Ecamm does this. I’m less, you know, I don’t know all the, all the bells and whistles that Ecamm has, but if they do, you should use Ecamm, um, because they sponsor the show.

[00:43:57] Rich Brooks: Um, so yeah, that’s the reason why I use it. [00:44:00] I wouldn’t say that if you’re, I’m using screen captures all the time. There’s a lot of tools specifically built. I’ve even pre programmed some of the ways that I want, um, images on the flight blog to look like one pixel borders with a drop shadow so I can just drag and drop and I get it exactly the way I want.

[00:44:16] Rich Brooks: So. If you’re using a tool so much like that, sometimes it makes sense to get the specialty tool because you’ll just be more efficient with your work. If you’re doing one to two screen captures a month, no, I wouldn’t probably use it.

[00:44:27] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It’s a great program. I highly recommend it. Screen, uh, Snagit is the one we were talking about, and I’ll drop that in the show notes down below. Um, kind of this, you touched upon it here, and before, I know you got to go a little bit early. But you mentioned this and we kind of talked about it a little.

[00:44:41] Jeff Sieh: I can’t remember if it was offline or not, but there’s a big concern. I have some friends who get a lot of their income from traffic to their site, like they’ve monetized it through Mediavine or something like that and across the board they’re seeing Like, even me I’m going to see [00:45:00] what the AI snippet is and I’m not scrolling down the page or clicking on links.

[00:45:05] Jeff Sieh: I’m kind of getting what the info is that I need really quickly. How is that affecting people like you who rely on SEO more than probably than the normal agency? What are you doing to combat it? Because I’m really interested because I think search has got to change completely, but tell me I’m wrong, tell me I’m right.

[00:45:20] Jeff Sieh: What are your thoughts on the

[00:45:22] Rich Brooks: No.

[00:45:22] Jeff Sieh: with this? Right,

[00:45:24] Rich Brooks: search is absolutely changing and across the board we’re seeing less traffic year over year. So, AI is just the latest problem when it comes to getting traffic from the search engines. You know, early on social media, all the social platforms tried to keep you on those platforms like it was like a Vegas casino.

[00:45:40] Rich Brooks: There’s just, you can’t even find me out. Um, where search, especially Google, was all we’re going to do is we’re going to get you to where you need to be, right? But now Google has changed the game a little bit. And. We’ve seen traffic drop off for a while. Um, if you had a website that was all about like gifts, gift giving.

[00:45:59] Rich Brooks: [00:46:00] And so all of your content was around like, when is Valentine’s day? 2025? Um, you’ve already lost that race. You lost that race a decade ago because Google started giving people the answers for simple queries like that, right down the page. So you didn’t have to visit it. In fact, there’s a term called zero click searches and the percentage of basically searches that don’t result in a click.

[00:46:21] Rich Brooks: Either because people didn’t find the answer and did another search, but more likely because the answer was in the top part of the page and they didn’t need to dig any further. So a lot of those type of websites took a huge hit then. But now we’ve got searches like, you know, with the AI overviews. And so I do a search and I get an answer.

[00:46:39] Rich Brooks: I don’t need to click on the links to go to the sources that Google just sourced. Which sucks if you’re that source, right? Because now you’re losing all that traffic. I don’t know that that’s, there’s a way of getting that traffic back, quite honestly. And actually, Will Reynolds in that interview talks a little bit about that.

[00:46:57] Rich Brooks: He talks about really leaning a [00:47:00] little bit more into social media, something I had moved away from for a while because I just wasn’t seeing the results. I wanted out of social media because I’m very ROI driven, but if you want to get your content in front of the people who can can really enjoy it and benefit from it, you may need to develop those profiles in social media, the following the audience and be expecting that a lot of your traffic now, or more higher percentage is going to come from social and be shared around.

[00:47:26] Rich Brooks: The other thing when it comes to search is We need to be thinking more about branded search like when people do a search on flight Or, or, uh, like websites or whatever it would be. Yes. They already know who we are, but the bottom line is that search is more likely to convert for me. So a lot of the searches that are more informational or educational in intent that we used to get a lot of traffic to our website for.

[00:47:54] Rich Brooks: Those days are over, and it’s just, you gotta move on. So now the focus is really on optimizing those sales [00:48:00] pages or service pages on your website, trying to get there, because when the intent is there, when people, Google knows when somebody’s looking to, in my case, hire an SEO company, or hire a branding or web design company, versus somebody who’s just kind of curious about, What does SEO mean?

[00:48:15] Rich Brooks: What can I do on my site? These sort of things. Those informational ones that I used to get a lot of traffic for, that has dried up quite a bit. But the people who are looking for a company to do that for them, that traffic is still coming into my website. So I, for us, and this is a similar solution for all of our clients, is one thing is, um, we focus on improving those service pages and making them rank higher.

[00:48:41] Rich Brooks: Uh, we also focus on a lot of inbound links, so we’re seeing more. Part of the thing with AI is raise your online profile so that when somebody says, hey, who’s some of the biggest names in, uh, image generation, uh, AI image generation, Jeff, your name should be there. So the things that you’re doing that’s traditional PR or [00:49:00] traditional marketing, those are the things that then get you into chap GPT, get you into perplexity.

[00:49:04] Rich Brooks: that drive traffic to your website. So that is likely the new model for SEO, at least as far as 2025 goes, and I think that’s kind of where you want to put a lot of your activity. And the other thing is, find the Angie’s Lists or the Yelps of your industry and consider spending some money there. For us, it’s a company called Clutch.

[00:49:25] Rich Brooks: So it’s, it’s interesting. We were planning on advertising there. We’re actually moved it to starting advertising there in 2025, but I’ve actually gotten two leads through Clutch in the last month. Now neither of them have panned out yet, but just the fact that people are going to Google finding, you know, go into Clutch cause Clutch is like the Yelp or Angie’s List of best Digital agencies, that’s driving then traffic to my website.

[00:49:49] Rich Brooks: And again, if I invest and I advertise, so I get to the top of their pages, that’s going to drive even more qualified leads. So, uh, search will always be part of our lives, but I think you [00:50:00] have to adapt to how you’re going

[00:50:08] Jeff Sieh: Wow, Rich. This has been fascinating. Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge. Um, you guys, you got to go check out Rich’s, his book, his website, his podcast. Check out all those things will be in the show, uh, the show notes. But Rich, uh, before we wrap up, I want to give a chance for you to push whatever you want to push, whatever you want people to come and follow you on or where at.

[00:50:31] Jeff Sieh: Just, uh, the floor is yours. That’s right. Not yet. Not yet.

[00:50:39] Rich Brooks: So basically, uh, you know, if you are looking for help with your website, your branding, your SEO or social media, you can come visit me at takeflight. com. Um, check out our blog. podcast. It’s the Agents of Change. Jeff’s episode is coming up in the next couple of weeks. I know you know Jeff, so you should check it out anyways, but great content there.

[00:50:57] Rich Brooks: And if you just want to connect with me, my [00:51:00] favorite platform, and boy does this make me sound old, is LinkedIn. I’m the Rich Brooks there and everywhere else, but just start a conversation. Just do me a favor and tell me you heard me on Jeff’s podcast, and that way I’ll know that you’re a legit person and I should absolutely connect with you.

[00:51:14] Jeff Sieh: Thank you so much for that. This has been fascinating. Um, thank you guys so much for watching. Dustin, thank you so much for showing up. And he did put a little note that I didn’t have a chance to bring up that they are updating personas today. So we talked about that kind of at the start of the show about different personas.

[00:51:31] Jeff Sieh: So go check out Magi. You can actually go to, I’ve got it right here, magi. co forward slash Jeff. Uh, to get on board there, but thank you, Dustin, for that, and yes, just like Hot Ones. So, thank you guys so much for being here. We will see you guys, uh, not next week, because it will be the Thanksgiving weekend, but the week after that, so can’t, I hope you have a, a great time with your family, and with that, thank you, Dustin, Rich, everybody, Michelle, um, um, let’s see, who else, oh, Jim, Fuse, [00:52:00] ask Ralph, everybody who showed up, Megan, Thank you so much for being here.

[00:52:02] Jeff Sieh: We wouldn’t be able to do the show without, without you. And thank you for our sponsors, Ecamm. Find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye everybody.