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Mastering Podcast Interviews with Andrew Mason

🔔 Another great show this week! Podcast pro Andrew Mason is dropping by to share on “Mastering Podcast Interviews.”

He’s a podcaster with 18 years of experience hosting and producing shows like David Allen Company’s Getting Things Done, The Omni Show, The ProGuide, and many more!

We’ll explore some of his secrets to selecting the right guests, asking engaging questions, and how he ensures top-notch production quality.

Also on the agenda is his current strategies for repurposing podcast content across different platforms, driving maximum impact.

Mastering Podcasting: Strategies and Tips from Expert Andrew Mason on Social Media News Live

Hey there, fellow podcast enthusiasts! It’s Jeff Sieh here, welcoming you to another exciting episode of Social Media News Live. Today, I’ve got my good friend Ian Anderson Gray cohosting and we’re diving deep into the art of podcasting with a true podcast master: Andrew Mason. Whether you’re just getting started or looking to refine your podcasting skills, this episode is packed with invaluable insights and practical tips that you won’t want to miss.

Introduction to Andrew Mason

Andrew Mason is no stranger to the podcasting world. With hundreds of episodes to his name, he’s known for his ability to create engaging and thought-provoking content. He hosts and produces several well-known podcasts, including “David Allen’s Getting Things Done,” “The Omni Show,” and “The Pro Guide.” Andrew’s passion for amplifying meaningful messages and his knack for engaging storytelling make him a standout in the podcasting community. His insights into podcast production and guest management are invaluable for anyone looking to elevate their podcasting game.

Introduction: Strategies and Tips for Effective Podcasting

So, what’s on the agenda today? We’re talking about everything you need to know to take your podcast to the next level. From finding the right guests and preparing for interviews to the nitty-gritty of post-production, Andrew spills the beans on how you can make your podcast stand out. Whether you’re a podcasting novice or a seasoned pro, Andrew’s advice will help you elevate your podcasting game and captivate your audience.

Strategies for Identifying Potential Guests

Andrew shares his tried-and-true strategies for finding and selecting podcast guests. He emphasizes the importance of starting with your existing network and gradually expanding your reach. Here’s a closer look at his approach:

  1. Start with Your Network

    • Andrew suggests beginning your guest search within your own network. This initial pool of potential guests can include friends, colleagues, and acquaintances who are knowledgeable about your podcast’s topic.
    • Leveraging your network helps you build a strong foundation and gain confidence as you secure your first few interviews.
  2. Gradually Expand

    • Insider Tip: Andrew recommends exploring your LinkedIn second-degree connections for potential guests, as these can be valuable contacts who are just one step removed from your immediate circle.
    • These are people who are connected to your contacts and can be introduced through mutual acquaintances.
    • This method not only broadens your pool of potential guests but also adds credibility since these guests come recommended by people you trust.
  3. Amazon’s New Release List

    • Another strategy he mentions is to explore Amazon’s new release list. Authors with upcoming books are often eager to promote their work and will likely be open to podcast interviews.
    • Reaching out to these authors can provide fresh and timely content for your podcast, aligning with current trends and topics.
  4. Apple’s New and Noteworthy Section

    • Another goldmine for finding interesting guests is Apple’s new and noteworthy section. This area highlights emerging podcasts and creators who are gaining traction.
    • By connecting with these individuals, you can find guests who are actively engaged in promoting their content and have fresh insights to share.

Setting Realistic Expectations for Your Initial Guests

Andrew emphasizes the importance of setting realistic expectations when you’re just starting out. Here are some key points to consider:

  • Aim for Accessibility: While it’s great to have dream guests in mind, it’s important to start with more accessible individuals. This could mean local experts or lesser-known but knowledgeable figures in your field.
  • Build Your Portfolio: As you conduct more interviews, your podcast’s portfolio grows, making it easier to attract higher-profile guests in the future. Each interview is a step towards establishing credibility and expanding your reach.
  • Stay Patient and Persistent: Securing guests can be a gradual process. Patience and persistence are key as you navigate the early stages of guest selection. Over time, as your podcast gains recognition, attracting guests will become easier.

Side Note: How to Make Yourself Appealing to Podcasters and Interviewers

Okay, so now we’re talking to you, podcast hopefuls! We’re going to dive into some tips on what to do—and what not to do—to stand out and get those coveted invites! Trust me, you don’t want to miss these tips.

Be Genuinely Interested and Offer Value

Alright, let’s kick things off with a biggie: be genuinely interested and offer value. I often joke that my podcast is like free consulting for me, but there’s a lot of truth in that. I bring on people who fascinate me or talk about topics I want to learn more about, and Ian and Andrew echo that sentiment. So, here’s the deal: We usually don’t have people on who just ask to be on our shows, especially if they have an ulterior motive.

  • What Not to Do: Don’t come knocking on someone’s door just to pitch your latest product. That’s a surefire way to get ignored.
  • What to Do Instead: Show that you’re genuinely interested in the podcast and its topics. Make it clear that you’re here to share valuable insights, not just to sell something.

Build Relationships and Community

Next up, relationships and community are where it’s at. We often rely on our network to find guests. We ask our friends to introduce us to interesting people, creating a solid community of engaged and knowledgeable individuals.

  • What Not to Do: Don’t think you can just cold call your way onto a podcast.
  • What to Do Instead: Engage with the podcasting community. Network and build relationships. Those mutual introductions are gold.

Avoid Cold Calls and Be Authentic

Speaking of cold calls, Ian and I get a ton of generic emails from people wanting to be on our podcasts. Spoiler alert: They usually end up in the trash. Authenticity is key here.

  • What Not to Do: Don’t send a generic email saying you’d be a great guest. If you haven’t even listened to the podcast, we can tell.
  • What to Do Instead: Listen to the podcasts you’re interested in. Engage genuinely with the content and the hosts. Show real appreciation and understanding of the show.

Adopt an Abundance Mentality

Andrew hit the nail on the head with this one. Approach podcast opportunities with an abundance mentality. Focus on what you can give, not what you can get.

  • What Not to Do: Don’t come in with a mindset of “What’s in it for me?”
  • What to Do Instead: Come from a place of giving and serving. It’s about providing value to the audience, not just boosting your own profile.

Prepare Technically

Last but not least, let’s talk tech. Nothing kills a podcast vibe faster than bad audio or technical glitches. Andrew Ian and I have all had to deal with this, and trust me, it’s a pain. But it’s preventable.

  • What Not to Do: I’ll be the first to admit that sometimes you can’t control these things BUT avoid showing up with poor audio and video quality or an unstable internet connection. In this post-pandemic world, we should have these basics covered. 
  • What to Do Instead: Invest in a good microphone and ensure you have a stable internet connection. If you’re not tech-savvy, take a little time to get familiar with the basics. And hey, if you have an amazing story but lack the tech, don’t be afraid to let us know—sometimes we’re willing to help out with that, like sending a guest a mic.

Researching Your Guests: The First Step to a Great Interview

Andrew gets into the nitty-gritty of podcast prep, emphasizing the importance of doing your homework on your guests. Now, wouldn’t it be great if we could just hand over all our research to AI and call it a day? Andrew admits that while AI tools can be incredibly helpful, there’s no substitute for good old-fashioned manual research. Getting to know your guests on a deeper level requires a personal touch that AI simply can’t replicate.

Uncovering the “Seed of Enthusiasm”

Andrew introduces the concept of the “seed of enthusiasm,” which is the core passion or topic that truly excites your guest. This is where the magic happens. Discovering this allows you to craft questions that will elicit energetic and engaging responses. Here’s a sneak peek into how Andrew suggests you find it:

  • Look for Patterns:Review previous interviews, speeches, or content your guest has produced. Pay attention to recurring themes or topics they speak about passionately.
  • Watch Their Content: Whether it’s a TED talk, a YouTube video, or a podcast episode, observe how they talk about certain subjects. Their enthusiasm will be evident in their tone, body language, and choice of words.
  • Read Their Work: If they have written articles, books, or blog posts, these can provide insight into what they care about deeply. Highlighting these interests during your interview can lead to more dynamic and authentic conversations.

Understanding your guest’s “seed of enthusiasm” sets the stage for asking the kinds of questions that will make your interviews memorable. This leads us directly into the next crucial step: crafting engaging questions that tap into this enthusiasm and bring out the best in your guest.

Enhancing Guest Comfort and Crafting Engaging Questions

On the topic of finding guests, we also talked a bit about the importance of creating space for your guests. Andrew Mason and I agree that creating a comfortable environment for your guests is crucial to getting the best responses.

Andrew shares some valuable tips for making guests feel at ease:

  • Pre-interview Chat: Have your guests join the call at least 10 minutes before the show starts. Use this time to chat and let them know what to expect. Reassure them that you’re not out to get them, and explain how the interview will proceed. This helps them relax and understand that you’re there to make them look good.

  • Friendly Demeanor: Being friendly and approachable goes a long way. Let your guests know that this is not a “gotcha” podcast. Both your reputations are on the line, and the goal is to create a positive experience for everyone involved.

  • Desensitize the Experience: Help your guests get comfortable with the technical setup. Show them what they’ll look like on full screen and what they sound like. This reduces the initial shock of being on camera or recorded and allows them to focus on the conversation.

Andrew emphasizes that the more comfortable your guest feels, the more likely they are to open up and provide thoughtful, engaging answers. This comfort is the foundation for creating those magic moments in your interviews.

Structuring Your Interview

After making sure your guests are comfortable and ready to be on their A-game, crafting questions that draw out your guest’s passion and enthusiasm is crucial for a compelling interview. Andrew highlights the following strategies:

After making sure your guests are comfortable and ready to be on their A-game, crafting questions that draw out your guest’s passion and enthusiasm is crucial for a compelling interview. Andrew highlights the following strategies:

Framework for Asking Good Questions

  1. Provide Context and Backstory: Start by explaining what you are looking for and give some context from where you are coming from. This builds a verbal bridge and sets the stage for the conversation.
  2. Offer Possibilities for Answers: When framing your question, provide a few possibilities for where the guest could take their answer. This does not mean giving them the answer but offering some jumping-off points.
  3. Give Time to Think: Allow your guest some time to think while you are framing the question. This helps them prepare a thoughtful and insightful response.
  4. Balance Structured and Unstructured Questions: Begin with structured questions to set the direction. Follow up with unstructured questions that encourage spontaneous, in-depth answers.
  5. Create Space for Magic Moments: Encourage your guest to dive deeper into topics that spark their enthusiasm. Be genuinely curious and committed to bringing out the best in your guest.

Andrew explains that using this framework helps guests understand how they can assist in creating great content. This sequence often leads to those magic moments where the conversation becomes truly engaging and insightful.

Striking a Balance: Structured and Prepared vs. Open-ended and Organic Questions

Andrew highlights the importance of balancing prepared and organic questions. While having a list of questions is crucial for a structured interview, being flexible and responsive to the flow of the conversation can lead to more natural and engaging discussions. Here’s how he suggests you achieve this balance:

  1. Structured Questions: These are essential for ensuring that you cover all the important topics and keep the interview on track. They provide a framework that guides the conversation and can help guests feel more at ease.

    • Preparation: Andrew appreciates receiving a few questions beforehand as it provides a direction for the conversation. He typically sends eight to ten open-ended questions that revolve around the guest’s “seed of enthusiasm” to ensure the conversation stays lively and engaging.
  2. Open-Ended Questions: These allow for more expansive answers and can lead to unexpected insights. They encourage your guest to share their thoughts and experiences more freely, resulting in a more dynamic and engaging interview. Even directly asking the guest if there’s anything they want to talk about can be an effective strategy.

    • Flexibility: Being genuinely curious and attentive to your guest’s responses allows for a more dynamic and spontaneous interaction. This flexibility helps follow the conversation’s natural flow and dive deeper into interesting topics as they arise. These organic questions that come to you on the fly based on what your guest is saying and can lead to the most memorable moments.

Getting the Best Responses from Your Guests

Andrew stresses the importance of truly being curious about what your guest has to say. He explains that this genuine curiosity and commitment to bringing out the best in your guest are key. Even if it means asking uncomfortable questions, being genuinely interested helps in crafting questions that bring out the right information. Andrew also suggests having a few open-ended catch-all questions as a safety net when conversations veer off track or your guest is low energy. Questions like “Tell me what you’re passionate about” or “Describe a misstep in your career” can reignite a stalled conversation and reveal unexpected insights.

Andrew emphasizes that the questions should springboard off the guest’s interests, even if it means delving into topics like their dog or a recent hobby. This approach helps bring light and energy into their eyes, making the conversation more engaging.

  • Digging Deeper: Instead of sticking to surface-level questions, aim to explore your guest’s motivations, challenges, and successes. Questions that ask “why” or “how” often lead to more detailed and enthusiastic responses.
  • Personal Experiences: Encourage your guest to share personal anecdotes and stories. These not only make the interview more interesting but also allow listeners to connect with the guest on a deeper level.
  • Specificity: Be specific in your questions to avoid generic answers. For example, instead of asking, “What do you think about X?” try, “Can you describe a time when X impacted your work, and how did you handle it?”

Editing and Post-Production Tips

Editing isn’t just about cutting out the ums and ahs; it’s about crafting a narrative that flows seamlessly and keeps your audience engaged. Andrew shared an insightful tip from his wedding photographer that really resonated with me: “It’s my job to preserve the spirit of the event.” This philosophy applies perfectly to podcast editing. We want to present the conversation in the best possible light, maintaining its authenticity while enhancing its clarity and engagement.

Andrew talks about how to handle technical flubs, like when someone drops out or starts rambling off-topic. If it doesn’t affect the overall story arc, cut it out. Sometimes, if a guest answers a different question than what was asked, you can even re-record the question to match their response. It’s a little trick, but it makes the final product coherent and polished without losing the genuine essence of the conversation.

One of the game-changing tools we discussed is Descript’s Regenerate feature. This AI-powered tool can fix flubs, mispronunciations, and even mic bumps, making your guest sound better than ever. It’s like having a magic wand for your audio. Remember, the goal is to make your guests shine. We’re not out to catch them off guard but to showcase their best selves. Tools like these help us do just that.

Andrew also highlights the importance of post-production flexibility. Redos are a great tool for non-live sessions. If a guest doesn’t quite nail an answer or goes off on a tangent, you can assist them in restating their thoughts more clearly. This not only enhances the quality of the final product but also puts your guest at ease, knowing there’s room for correction.

Then there’s the beauty of AI tools like Descript’s studio sound and Adobe’s audio enhancement. These tools can significantly improve the audio quality with just a few clicks. However, use them judiciously to avoid that digital voice artifact that can make someone sound like they’re coming out of the Matrix.

One of the most valuable lessons from our discussion is knowing when to let go. As a podcaster, it’s easy to get caught up in perfectionism, but sometimes you just need to hit publish. Over-editing can drain the life out of a conversation. Embrace the fact that your early work might not be perfect. Andrew reminds us that even if our initial episodes are rough, they’re a necessary part of the journey. Lean into the conversation, and let go of the need for a masterpiece. Your audience is there for the content and connection, not just the production quality.

Leveraging Short-Form Content

We also talked about the power of short-form content. Andrew explains how to create engaging snippets from your podcast episodes for Reels and YouTube Shorts. The trick is to select segments that have a strong hook while still keeping the content authentic. This helps reach a broader audience and keeps your existing listeners engaged with fresh, bite-sized content.

Creating short-form content is an art. You need to identify parts of your podcast that can stand alone while still delivering a punch. Andrew suggests looking for moments where the guest shares a surprising fact, a motivational quote, or a key insight. These snippets should be concise yet compelling. Using tools like Minvo and can help you create visually engaging clips with captions, making them more accessible and shareable. Remember, the goal is to give your audience a taste that leaves them wanting more, driving traffic back to your full episodes.

Wrapping Up: Key Takeaways and Next Steps for Successful Podcasting

Alright folks, let’s wrap this up with a quick recap. Andrew Mason dropped some serious podcasting knowledge bombs today! From balancing structured and organic questions to mastering the art of editing, we’ve covered a lot. Remember, genuine curiosity and flexibility can turn a good interview into a great one. And those AI tools like Descript? Total game-changers.

Podcasting is a journey, not a sprint. Don’t be afraid to mess up and embrace those beautiful imperfections. Use these strategies to create content that not only resonates with your audience but also makes your guests shine.

For some of the cool stuff we mentioned and to connect with the man himself, Andrew Mason, check out these links:

Also: Secret Code (if you know, you know) ZCJQ2M


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. I am so glad you’re here. We have an awesome guest for you today. And if you would do me a favor, we’re going to be talking all about the art of podcast interviews. So, if you know somebody who’s wanting to start a podcast, or has a podcast and wants to kind of take it to the next level, or maybe they have a solo podcast and they want to start doing interviews, this is going to be the perfect show for them.

[00:00:25] So, at mention them down below, wherever you’re watching this from, call them into the conversation. If they can’t watch it live, they can check the replay. We’re always checking messages on there. We’ll see you next time. But we would love to make this show all about you. So make sure to ask your questions of Andrew and Ian.

[00:00:40] We’re all podcasters here. Some of us better than others, like everybody else on the screen. Uh, but I would love for you guys to ask your questions as we’re going along, uh, today, cause this is going to be a really fun show. Ian Anderson Gray, how are you doing? How is the weather in UK? Cause last night, right when you’re taking a drink, I had to call on you.

[00:00:57] Um, what’s, uh, cause last time I talked to you, you said it was a nice day. In beautiful, foggy, uh, UK.

[00:01:06] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, well, it’s always raining in Manchester, I’d say, but yeah, today’s not great. It’s a gray sky, but yesterday was beautiful. It was gorgeous. We were in the garden having a lunch. I believe this weekend we’ve got a bank holiday weekend here, so I’m looking

[00:01:19] Jeff Sieh: have a holiday weekend every other day,

[00:01:22] Ian Anderson Gray: I know I just, I just was, I knew I shouldn’t even admit to that, but that’s what we’re doing.

[00:01:28] And it’s, and it’s also, it’s my mother in law’s 80th, 80th

[00:01:33] Jeff Sieh: 80th birthday. I’m hoping to play. That’s what you’re saying. You froze up there a little bit. So,

[00:01:37] Ian Anderson Gray: birthday.

[00:01:38] Jeff Sieh: Okay. So we’ve got some, uh, Andrew now tell, tell me again, you’re from Delaware. Is that where you’re from?

[00:01:44] Andrew Mason: I, uh, I’m in, I’m from Delaware. I tell everybody it’s the land where dreams come true and they have no idea what that means, but, uh, it’s, it’s a magical place over here.

[00:01:52] Jeff Sieh: Okay, cool. I have never been to Delaware, so, um, I’m gonna have to, have to make a trip there. And we’ve got some of our friends already stopping by. We’ve got George saying, Hello all. Happy Friday. Hello, George. Thank you for stopping by. I know you were part of, uh, last week, a lot of the, the Leap Into Live.

[00:02:06] You were there as well. And our friend Dustin Stout. With the yellow hand wave that he typically does to start off the show. Thank you, my friend for stopping by. Dustin, by the way, is the founder, creator, CEO, head cheese, everything of Magi, which you haven’t checked out that tool. You need to go check out magi.

[00:02:22] ai. It’s amazing tool. Uh, I have a discount code. I don’t know what it is, but Dustin can drop it in the comments because, anyway, it’s a great tool. I love it. Um, but we are going to start the show, but I want to tell you guys real quick before we get started, um, if you haven’t had a chance yet, I put together for Leap, uh, this amazing toolbox, and you can find it at jeffsieh.

[00:02:41] com forward slash toolbox. It’s got all my tools, apps, AI things. It’s, it’s gone over really, really well, so people really, really like it. So, if you haven’t had a chance to download it, it’s totally free. Jeffsieh. com forward slash toolbox. And, while we’re mentioning Leap, uh, we just finished it, but they still have replay tickets available.

[00:02:58] And the cool thing about these replay tickets is you get access to this year’s and all the past year’s Leaps. And it’s just an amazing deal. I think it’s like 45. You can get that at leap. ecamm. com. And, as well, uh, they just opened up camp tickets. So, Ian, Anderson Gray, and I are actually going to be one of the, uh, The speakers there at camp this year, it is, if you have, last year was amazing, they keep it to a hundred people.

[00:03:23] So this is like an exclusive event, just opened it up, don’t wait for too long. Ecamm. com forward slash camp. And by the way, starting next week, we’re going to do a contest to give away a free ticket. So, uh, stay tuned for that cause that’s going to be a lot of fun. All right, enough with all of that, Ian. Uh, I’m going to go ahead and hit go on the podcast machine and we’ll get started.

[00:03:46] Sound good? Okay.

[00:03:51] Hello folks welcome to Social Media News Live

[00:03:54] I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not

[00:03:57] Ian Anderson Gray: I’m Ian Anderson Grey, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:04:04] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever wondered how the best podcasts manage to captivate their audience episode after episode? Maybe you’re interested in discovering the strategies behind effective podcast interviews. Or, you’re eager to transform your podcasting hobby into a professional and polished production. If that is you, then you are in for an amazing experience today.

[00:04:23] We’re excited to host a guest who has mastered the art of podcasting. He’s an expert in crafting compelling content and enhancing listener engagement. Andrew Mason will be sharing his experience. His approaches and his essential tips for podcasting success. So sit back, clear schedule, clear your mind and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live.

[00:04:44] Andrew, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:04:46] Andrew Mason: Oh my gosh, Jeff, I’m doing so well. Uh, I can’t wait to hear what I have to say after that introduction. That sounds

[00:04:52] Jeff Sieh: There we go. Yeah, this is fun. Yeah. Andrew is a pro. So you guys, um, take some notes cause it’s going to be really, really great.

[00:04:59] Andrew Mason: you’re

[00:05:00] Ian Anderson Gray: going to be awesome. Well, well, if you don’t know Andrew, he has over 18 years, hundreds of episodes. Andrew has a passion for amplifying messages that matter. He’s a husband, father of three, and being the host and producer of many podcasts, including David Allen, Companies, Getting Things Done, The Omni Groups, Omni Show, and The Pro Guide.

[00:05:23] He lives in Delaware where dreams come true.

[00:05:27] Jeff Sieh: Hey, Andrew, thank you. Ian’s breaking up. I think it’s the, the underwater cables across from the UK, maybe, um, or a storm, but, uh, anyway, so glad that Andrew is here, um, but we’re going to get started right away, but I want to do a shout out to our sponsor for the podcast. It is our friends over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm.

[00:05:45] com forward slash Jeff. Use code Jeff15 to, uh, get a, uh, 15 percent discount on your first order. But we’re going to jump right into mastering podcast interviews. And so the first question, Andrew, like we’re going to talking about the, you know, it’s not just mastering, it’s how to craft them. So how do you use, what strategy do you use to find the most effective way for identifying potential guests who have some like fresh insights to share?

[00:06:11] Because I know finding guests if you’re doing an interview show can be

[00:06:16] Andrew Mason: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great question, Jeff. My gosh. Uh, I think that, uh, all of us have maybe if you’re thinking about starting a podcast at all, all of us have maybe that, that guest in mind, that’s like, my gosh, here’s the moonshot. This is the person that I would love to interview one day, someday. Uh, for me, that person’s John Maxwell.

[00:06:34] So John, if you’re listening, I’m really interested in interviewing at some point. Um, but I think, uh, two, two things have really helped me. One is, uh, a concept that I call bloom where you’re planted. And so yeah, have that person in mind, have that Moonshine guest in mind, who, who’s the person that one day, someday, I’d love to interview them, but then start with where you are and start to think about, okay, with the stuff that I’m interested in, with the subject matter that I’m passionate about, uh, who wants to be interviewed and who is interested in sharing what they have, uh, to offer.

[00:07:05] And in my mind, you can go a couple of different places to find people that kind of fit that category. Some, some successful plots or spots for me in the past have been, uh, Amazon’s new release list. So somebody that has a book that’s coming out, somebody that’s thinking about releasing a book sometime in the future, very often they’re interested in traveling the PR circuit, uh, and they want to share what it is, you know, their message with the world.

[00:07:28] So finding people that are hungry to talk about what it is that they have to share with the world, I think is, is an excellent strategy. Uh, new and noteworthy within, uh, Apple’s podcast, just kind of lurking around in there a little bit. So often. And you’re going to find people that have, uh, really interesting stuff to say, uh, and they might not necessarily be like the guests, you know, but starting with where you’re at and then working toward where you want to be in terms of the guest selection, I think is, is a fabulous way, number one, to get in the reps because, uh, if you’re starting a podcast from scratch, just that sense in which, uh, You know, you’re not going to be amazing at it at first, and you’re going to make mistakes.

[00:08:06] You’re going to mess up. That’s part of it. And why not get desensitized by having all the reps in from the get go and just trusting the process that as you’re interviewing guests, that you’re moving forward. Each, each conversation is moving you one step closer to where you want to be in terms of subject matter.

[00:08:23] So I think blooming where you’re planted is one. And the other is the sense of, uh, I call it widening circles or platform jumping. So starting with where you are and, uh, having guests on that, uh, maybe take you a step in the direction of where you want to be. So, uh, I know when we first started, it was just a tech interview show back in 2009.

[00:08:45] We just interviewed, uh, guests who happened to be. so much for joining us today, and we’ll see you next time. And, uh, when you can, you know, give other names that, uh, people would recognize or be like, Oh, I know who that person is. It suddenly becomes a switch in their head that says, Yeah, you know, that’s, that’s, that sounds like a show I’d like to be on because I recognize these other voices in that community.

[00:09:25] And that doesn’t happen if you just start there from the get go. Oh,

[00:09:29] Jeff Sieh: Very interesting. So, I assume that you have, like, your white whale, like, that you want to get. Because I know I have, like, tears. Like, I always wanted to get Jay Baer. I was able to get him on this year. You know, Seth Godin, for a lot of marketers, is the one step. But, like, Eric Fisher has had him on, like, a couple times, I think.

[00:09:44] He’s trying to get like Jim Gaffigan, like, you know, celebrity stuff. So, I mean, so I guess you kind of have some stair steps that you go, like when you first start out, it may not be realistic if you’re just like on episode one to get those to your guests. If you can, that’s great. I was able to get Guy Kawasaki really early in my, uh, journey just because of people I knew, you know, I guess to kind of have realistic expectations of, you know, the guests that you can get when you’re first starting out.

[00:10:10] Is that something you found too?

[00:10:12] Andrew Mason: I think so. I also think being truly interested, you know, not looking, yeah, there is a long term play that’s happening here about like where you want to be and you have in your mind, uh, you know, who, who that guest, that magic guest might be, but really, truly being interested in the people that you’re interviewing as well.

[00:10:30] So it’s not a sense, like, People can smell manipulation. People can smell, you know, when you’re not being authentic with them. And so I’m truly here because I want to add value. You know, when, when people sense that, I think it makes for a better interview. Anyway.

[00:10:43] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. Yeah. Great advice. Ian, you had a question.

[00:10:47] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, that makes sense. So how much research do you typically conduct on a guest before you do the interview? And do you have any like go to sources or methods with that?

[00:10:57] Andrew Mason: Hmm. Uh, from a technical standpoint, like when we’re talking about nuts and bolts and going on, like, uh, it, there’s not a standard process in terms of like, Uh, Google stalking or, you know, Instagram lurking or anything like that. So that, that I don’t really have a method for that, but if you’re trying to really dig up, uh, on research for, for a potential guest, I think I look for one, one sort of thing.

[00:11:25] And then once I have an answer to that one thing, it becomes sort of a linchpin for where the rest of the show can possibly go in the future. And so, uh, for me, that one thing, if you have it. You know, it’s going to be an amazing show. And then if you don’t have it, you can have all the facts, all the research, you know, uh, know what the person ate for breakfast when they were 10 years old and creep them out with that information on the show.

[00:11:46] Like it do all that stuff, but it might not be a great show. And, uh, the one thing for me is what I call the seed of enthusiasm. And so it’s like, you look for the content that’s already on there. Do they have any content that’s already on YouTube? And you listen to that, you know, the shtick, the TED talk, the welcome video, and hear what it is that they’re already passionate about.

[00:12:07] Is there something that they bring energy to? That shows up in their conversations or in, you know, their bio and, and find out what that one seed is. Because if you can revolve the questions around that seed, uh, very often it’s really, really difficult to get a miss. You know, it’s, it’s so easy to get the right, you know, the right, uh, interview questions across.

[00:12:30] If you can find where it is that that energy starts to flow, where that enthusiasm starts to show up. And so you can have a lot of prep or a little bit of prep, but when you. Keep in mind, what about, you know, what it is that makes that, you know, guests kind of light up, uh, it becomes that much easier. I think,

[00:12:45] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, you know, one of the things, and I’m, I always teach people that I say like, yeah, this is for me, it’s free consulting. And I kind of joke about that, but it’s also kind of true. Like it’s, it’s it because it’s, um, it’s people I find interesting or I’ve seen or a topic that I want to know about. And I know that they have either talked about it before or whatever.

[00:13:03] I. This is the thing. I usually don’t have people who ask to be on my podcast. I don’t usually have them on unless I’ve already either been on their show or that I’ve, I’ve done something. Usually when people want to be on your show, there’s a alternative, you know, there’s a motive behind it. They want to pitch something to your audience.

[00:13:19] And I want to provide value to my audience. I don’t want to have it be a sales thing. So, um, I usually am just, I usually, my thing is just asking people, Hey, would you like to be on? I thought I saw you on this. I think you’d be great. I’d love to learn more from you. It’s that very organic kind of style, um, of, uh, kind of interview, finding people to interview.

[00:13:37] Um, here’s a great question by Robert Lee. And he goes, this is a pretty cool topic. He’s watching over on LinkedIn. He says, this is, hope this is not a repeat question, but what are some tools you find helpful when researching about your guests for your interview beyond like Google search? Are there any, Like tools, you mentioned that you go into, uh, you know, the new and noteworthy on Apple.

[00:13:59] Are there any other places like, or tools that you use to kind of, is like Podmatch or something like that, that you use, any of those kind of things?

[00:14:05] Andrew Mason: yeah, I, I wish I could say that I did everything, you know, driven by AI and it was super easy, but, uh,

[00:14:10] Ian Anderson Gray: today.

[00:14:11] Andrew Mason: really is going in and doing the work for me. Uh, you’ve, you’ve heard the person’s name somewhere. You’ve read their book, uh, I think that actually putting your eyeballs on their website or, you know, looking through their content, there’s not really a super great replacement for that, that I found yet that I fully trust.

[00:14:33] And so it really has been just like, you know, Researching the person, oh, they’re saying cool stuff. There’s content that’s impacting me. I think you can find, if they have content that impacts yourself, then I think that’s a good, you know, litmus test as to whether or not that’s going to be something that, you know, your guests will find interesting as well.

[00:14:49] Um, what about you guys? Do you have any, any thoughts about research assisting tools? That’s interesting. I haven’t, I

[00:14:57] Jeff Sieh: seeing my, on my friend’s show. Because we have kind of a community, right, Ian? We have people on our show and I’m like, Hey, will you make an introduction to me? I do this all the time with Katie Brinkley, who’s been on the show. She does a great podcast. Um, and just getting that, like I got Roger Wakefield, which you wouldn’t think, He’s, he’s this plumber who’s blown up on YouTube, but he’s a, he’s a marketing guy.

[00:15:16] He’s amazing. And I’m like, some people wouldn’t have a plumber on their show, but I’m like, Roger is a genius. Like the, what he has done, he’s built an empire now, Home Depot and Lowe’s are having them do deals. I’m just like, so, and I like, I knew Roger back when, you know, I mean, I think that, that kind of stuff is fascinating to be people like that.

[00:15:35] What about you, Ian? What, what, how do you find guests?

[00:15:38] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. I, it’s, it’s all relationships because I, I have it the other side where I get all these emails, as I’m sure you do, like the cold call emails, like, Oh, I would be really interested on being on your podcast. I would give a lot of value to your audience. Like, and they’re also like, they also say, Oh, I’m a big fan of your podcast.

[00:15:57] And they obviously haven’t listened to it. So like, I, I, that, that kind of thing doesn’t work. So I think it’s gotta be, you gotta be genuine. You can’t fake it. So if, if you do want to be on someone’s podcast, listen to the podcast, stalk them in a nice way and give value to them. Uh, and, and I think that’s the only way that’s gonna, that’s gonna make a difference.

[00:16:19] So, yeah, I, I think you can’t shortcut this. You can’t automate it. It sounds like you can, but you just can’t.

[00:16:27] Jeff Sieh: right. People can tell.

[00:16:29] Andrew Mason: I wish you could. Yeah. I wish, I wish you could, but I think coming from that, uh, abundance mentality that says I’m here to give, I’m here to serve, and, uh, I don’t want anything from you. I want something for you. Uh, you know, I don’t, I don’t know the words that make the difference between that, but people, I think people can sense that, you know?

[00:16:46] There

[00:16:48] Jeff Sieh: Totally agree. So, uh, this is a great, uh, tip from Gary. He goes, Sometimes listening to past appearances can help you avoid guests who are not so good. And that’s one of the things, I mean, there’s some people that I’ve wanted to have and I’ve done that. And I’m like, I noticed that they are, They’re not up to date on the tech that would make it possible for the live show.

[00:17:06] Now I’m having way less problem with that after COVID because everybody like had to do it for their job. They had to get some sort of webcam or something. Uh, so I don’t have that much issue anymore, but yeah, it’s a great, it’s a good idea. I’ve only had a couple of them when I went, Oh, okay, this is going to be a rough one, but most of the time it’s not like that at all.

[00:17:23] So

[00:17:25] Andrew Mason: are a few times where the tech has been something to overcome and I just wanted the guests so bad. Uh, they weren’t used to podcasting. There was a sheep, she is a sheep herder in Utah, uh, but happens to use, um, this was for the Omni show happens to use OmniFocus and used it to run her sheep herding farm.

[00:17:41] And, uh, I just loved her story. Loved hearing her communicate. And I was like, we, we sent her a blue Yeti mic and just said, you know, if you can send it back when you’re done. But you know, let her borrow the tech because it’s worth having the interview.

[00:17:55] Jeff Sieh: Hmm. That’s a, that’s a great point. Yeah.

[00:17:58] Ian Anderson Gray: that is a, that’s a great one. And it’s a, it’s an issue with, I think when you get out of the business and the marketing world and you go to the, maybe to the, I don’t know where you would call it the fringes. That’s where you can, you’re so used to meeting people who’ve got great tech and then you start to meet people who don’t, but they have got such an amazing story to share and sending them out a mic is such a great tip.

[00:18:20] Um, so I, I wanted to ask a question about. Questions, a question about questions. Cause when it actually comes to the, the interview itself, how do you strike a balance between structured and open ended questions so that you can allow, you know, for both informative and spontaneous responses, because, you know, you, I think it’s important to have a structure, but sometimes you just want to go off on a tangent, don’t you?

[00:18:47] Andrew Mason: That’s, oh man, that’s so true. So true. Yeah, it’s, and it’s a fantastic question to think about too. Like how much structure do you want to have in your conversation? And, and some of that might depend, I think, on How comfortable your guest is with kind of rifting, riffing on the fly. Uh, I, I so appreciate Jeff that you sent, you know, a couple of questions to Noodle on beforehand, because, uh, in my mind, it gave me a direction to take the conversation and, uh, but I feel like if somebody were to throw the opposite at you, if they threw the kitchen sink at you, you’d be able to answer a question pretty quickly because you’re used to it.

[00:19:19] You’re used to thinking on your feet. Uh, for me, I like to, I, as a rule, I like to send maybe eight to 10, just Open ended questions, but really it springboards off of that seed of enthusiasm that, that I was mentioning earlier. Uh, I want to make sure that the questions are geared around something that would maybe bring some light and energy into their eyes and something that they get excited and lit up about.

[00:19:44] And so, uh, it might not necessarily even be in their, You know, elevator pitch their shtick, you know, the thing that they’re known for, but you can see they’re really excited about talking about it. So if, if they want to talk about their dog, like let’s throw a question in there about that for sure. Um, I think something that, that helps with that is those eight to 10 questions don’t feel so over structured, but like you were saying at the end, they give you the groundwork that if the question, if the conversation really goes off the rails, we’re all talking about burritos that we had for dinner and we need to bring it back real fast, you know?

[00:20:14] So, uh, just look at the next question in the list. You know, you have this kind of framework, the sequence that helps guide you along the conversation. But in the moment, I think you’ll be able to tell when the conversation’s happening in the moment. If you see them excited, they’re bringing their energy, they’re bringing their passion to a certain subject that was maybe triggered by one of those structured questions and you feel something that just scratches a little bit deeper, uh, show up for you, ask the question.

[00:20:40] Cause that’s, I feel like that’s where the magic shows up, you know, uh, Absolutely.

[00:20:45] Jeff Sieh: So, it’s, it’s funny that, and, and this is like, this is, Robert has another great question over LinkedIn. He goes, Out of curiosity for everyone, do you prefer prepared questions versus organic questions coming from the convo on the day of the show? Now, this is really interesting to me because this is more of a controversial topic than I thought of.

[00:21:01] Like, Even on Leap last week, uh, Doc was saying no, never send questions, make it all things, you know, really organic, and, uh, Lou Mangiello, my friend Lou Mangiello, who does the WDW, uh, radio podcast, same way, he, he thinks no, no questions, he prepares, uh, really, he really researches his guests, but he just doesn’t do questions.

[00:21:21] I come from the thing is, like, I’ve had people so nervous to be on the show for the first time, that they need that structure, so we do the structure all the time, and I say, if you don’t want to look at the questions, don’t look at them. So, this is a really kind of controversial thing between podcasters and live video people.

[00:21:36] Um, and you kind of do a halfway kind of thing. You only give like eight and then kind of go maybe off of that. So, does it really, I guess it’s what you feel comfortable with. What are you guys thoughts? You know, um, Andrew, I mean, you have the eight questions. Do you give more if they ask or how do you, how do you handle that?

[00:21:53] Andrew Mason: Uh, usually if I send the eight questions, I’ll get an email response that says that’s fabulous. Thank you so much. These are thoughtful. Love it. I’ll be ready. Uh, and that’s the end of it for the 10 percent that say, Hey, can you dive a little bit deeper? Uh, I’ll actually ask the question after those eight questions.

[00:22:09] Also, is there anything that I didn’t ask that you’d love to talk about? Because very often, you know, somebody has just this new thing that I haven’t heard of, even though I’ve researched them, that they’re like so jazzed about that, man, that’s going to make the show if they talk about it. So, uh, asking, giving them the space to be able to have that conversation.

[00:22:27] And then. Uh, this is a little bit of a cheat code for post production, you know, versus live. But if you’ve had the interview, re asking that again, because very often they’ll be riffing on something halfway through the show, get sidetracked by the next question and kind of make a little mental bookmark in their head thinking like, man, I would have loved to have talked about that and say, okay, like, uh, now that the conversation’s over before I hit stop on recording this thing, uh, is there anything that I didn’t ask about that you wanted to be asked, or is there anything that, man, if I just gave you five more minutes or asked you about that, it would just, you know, send you off in a different tangent.

[00:23:02] And sometimes I’ll get some really great stuff from that because they had the conversation. It sparked, you know, the ignited the imagination a little bit and put them in state and they’re ready to riff on something. And it wasn’t anything that any of us had planned for.

[00:23:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’s, that’s, a guy has learned that technique, um, is that he’ll say, What did, what did you want me to ask that I did not ask? And that gets him some great stuff. Now, it’s kind of hard to do on a live format, um, I’ve done it a couple times, but it does get some of the, some of those things out. So, we got the, the, the comments are going fast and furious, um, This is, this is from my daughter, actually.

[00:23:35] She goes, how can you get some deeper responses from your guests rather than the sort of canned answers they’ve given to other people before? Uh, do you have some tips on framing good questions? One of the things that always jazzes podcasters and interviewers is when they say, when somebody, your interview goes, you know, no one’s ever asked me that question before.

[00:23:52] You’re like, yes, that’s what I wanted. So how do you find those things? Or. You know, like craft, I mean, like framing those questions to get those responses. Because you don’t, like you said before, you don’t want to shock them. Like, yeah, I remember you had a dog that died, you know, when you were a kid. And let’s, let’s talk about that.

[00:24:09] You don’t want to do that kind of stuff. But

[00:24:11] Andrew Mason: Very true.

[00:24:12] Jeff Sieh: how do you find those things like that, that can, people go, because you want to have that, you want to have that exclusive, exclusivity for your show. So is there any tips or, or hacks that you have for that, Andrew?

[00:24:24] Andrew Mason: Yeah, this is so meta, Jeff, but, uh, it’s exactly what we’re talking about right now. The structure of the question that you just set me up for, uh, you did a couple of really respectful things for me right now in the moment, which is what I would suggest anybody do if they’re, they’re going through this.

[00:24:39] And this isn’t to butter you up, but let’s break this down a little bit. Uh, you took some time. To talk through what it was that you were looking for. And in this, in the structure of your question, you gave some backstory, you gave some context from where you were coming from. So you’re kind of building a little bit of a verbal bridge here, and then you’re giving a couple of like possibilities for where they could take the answer.

[00:25:00] In the question itself. And so you’re not offering the answer for them, but you’re giving the guests some time to speak or to think while you’re talking. And then you’re giving three or four kind of conversational bridge, all, you know, diving board, jump off points right there, uh, for them to take the answer.

[00:25:14] And I think when you do that, it’s. It gives them an idea for how they can assist you in creating really good content. And, uh, if you can do that in the moment, that’s, you know, again, that, that is where the magic shows up for me very often. It happens in the sequence of structured question. It gets them rolling unstructured question.

[00:25:31] That’s where the magic shows up.

[00:25:34] Jeff Sieh: That’s really, I love that framework. I really do. One more question from Robert. He’s, this is great, Robert. Thank you. Keep them coming. He goes, a belated follow up for everyone out of curiosity. How often do people approach you to appear as guests versus you seeking out a person XYZ to appear on your show?

[00:25:49] And do you have an anecdote to share for the first time to say, Hey, I would love to come on as a guest. Like, what do you tell those people when they, you maybe not want, you don’t want to hurt their feelings, but you’re like, yeah, you’re not ready. Kind of a

[00:26:01] Andrew Mason: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, I lean in toward, uh, what Ian was saying a little bit. So some emails you get, uh, it just feels mass produced and I feel the freedom not to answer those. So it’s just like, you know what? I feel like they just sent this email to 300 people and I’m probably one of them. So I’m not going to go ahead and give myself the open loop of having to complete that and, and respond to them.

[00:26:23] But for people that I really feel like, Hey, they, they are interested in the show. And they’re, for whatever reason, curious to, to be interviewed, then, uh, I’ll give them the due diligence of, of looking them up. Hey, maybe this is, you know, their second or third interview and they’re trying to gain some traction.

[00:26:38] And I’d love it if somebody did that for me, you know, when I was first starting off and, and they did. So, uh, being that for them is okay. But if you look in there and you really see, you know what, this is not necessarily a fit. Uh, for whatever reason, for communication reasons, uh, for experience reasons, or just a fit for your show.

[00:26:56] Uh, you know, I, I can’t remember if it’s David Heinemann or Hanson, somebody from 37signal said, you know what? You don’t always have to give, I mean, you can, you can be kind and give a reason, but you don’t have to give a reason. You don’t owe the person an explanation for why they’re not showing up on your show.

[00:27:11] So I, you know, I believe in kindness, but no is, is a perfectly acceptable answer as well.

[00:27:16] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. That’s great.

[00:27:18] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, that’s good advice. That’s good advice because I probably overthink the response sometimes to that. Can you, can you share a time when an interview didn’t go as planned and like, share with us how you navigated that situation.

[00:27:33] Andrew Mason: Outside of right now? No, I’m just kidding. Um, yeah.

[00:27:36] Jeff Sieh: good. Touche.

[00:27:38] Andrew Mason: No,

[00:27:38] Jeff Sieh: And we’re done.

[00:27:40] Andrew Mason: thank you. No. Um, yeah. So, so many, too many to count. My gosh. Uh, I think one of my favorites was, um, I was having, and this was back when Skype, you know, was, was amazing. So it was like 2011, 2012. And a moonshot interview for me was, uh, uh, Mike Nelson.

[00:27:59] His name is Mike Nelson. He was the actor on Mystery Science Theater 3000. And I love that show. Um, where they make fun of the movies and it’s, it’s, for whatever reason, I, I, you know, reached out to the PR people and they said he’d be on the show and it was a short call. He had to be somewhere and halfway through the call, uh, everything, and he’s in the middle of a fantastic story, like his energy’s there and he’s getting to the crescendo of the story and the call just

[00:28:24] Jeff Sieh: Oh no.

[00:28:26] Andrew Mason: and I’m in, you know, I’m in rural Delaware, so it’s like, you know, it takes us about seven or eight minutes to, to get things going again. And, uh, it’s a really difficult ask to tell somebody like, Hey, I know you were just really excited and that was really draining. The last eight minutes of us trying to pull this thing back together and get you back, you know, get the, All the momentum back together and stuff, but can you act as excited as you were just then so I can make this happen and show up again?

[00:28:52] Um, and he did great and you know, the, the podcast pulled together and that’s the beauty of post production is you can, you know, say something as if you were interjecting in the moment and then, you know, bring the rest of his question or, you know, the rest of his answer back in. But having so many of those things happen at first, it’s like, Oh, this is the worst thing in the world that could ever happen.

[00:29:11] The world is ending. And then you realize. No, it’s not. No, it’s not. There’s so many, so many times that can happen that it’s almost like a desensitization process. At first it really, really hurts. And then over time, you’re like, you know what, we’re going to figure it out. And, uh, actually it’s super freeing.

[00:29:28] You know, it gives you that space to kind of reconnect with why am I here in the first place? You know, uh,

[00:29:33] Ian Anderson Gray: here.

[00:29:34] Andrew Mason: I had one guest that I didn’t realize this was a person that was a, um, Back when tech TV was like a thing, they were abundant on tech TV. I admired them, uh, had them on the show and I didn’t realize that they actually had flipped the tables and they were live streaming and they had me on their show and, uh, That was not a pretty thing, uh, at all.

[00:29:56] They were not making fun of me, but they were kind of having some light at the situation. And it’s, uh, you know, over time you realize that the worst thing that could ever happen, if it happens, it’s not the end of the world. And if you truly enjoy doing it, you just keep going. I mean, that’s it. Tech stuff’s going to show up.

[00:30:11] Uh, you know, bad guests are going to show up and you can decide what to do after, after having them on. And, uh, you’re still here. That’s how resilience happens.

[00:30:20] Jeff Sieh: that’s right. So, just, I’m going to do a plug for Ian’s podcast. I had one of those, uh, things as well, and I told that story on a recent episode of Ian’s podcast about one of my first live streams. It’s actually when I had Guy Gowsaki on for the first time. And some bad things happen. So you’ll have to go and listen to that show.

[00:30:39] It’s in the comp, is it the confident live show? Is that what it is,

[00:30:42] Ian Anderson Gray: yeah, Comfort Live, yeah.

[00:30:43] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So go check that one out. A little plug there. Um, one of the questions you mentioned, and I loved your kind of, your, the way you plan out your show, where you have structured questions, then you have them answer, and then you have like an unstructured question and then that’s kind of where the magic happens.

[00:30:55] So I want to talk about that a little bit more about the, the tips you have for creating some space. In your interviews for making those kind of things happen? Um, ’cause I mean, we’ve all had those guests before where, and this kinda goes back to like the worst thing could happen, where it’s like they’re giving you one word answers or they’re, or you’re like, and it feels like you’re just pulling everything out of them.

[00:31:19] You’re like, and they say yes. You’re like, okay, can you tell me more about that, please? And it’s, you know, , it’s so. How do you create space for those magic moments? And then, you know, kind of on the back of that, like, when you have those struggles of like, people aren’t giving you the question, the answers that you need, what do you do?

[00:31:38] Andrew Mason: Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I think there’s no replacement for, and I think I mentioned this earlier about being truly, truly curious about what it is that the guest has to say. So if you’re truly curious, there’s also a seat of commitment back there too. You know, I’m committed to bringing out the best in you. Uh, it’s not like a firehouse.

[00:31:57] You know, fire rescue where you’re pulling somebody out of a building, but it’s like, you know, even at your own expense, I’m going to do my best to ask the right questions that bring, uh, the right information out because we both care about, you know, creating a good show and having the right content show up.

[00:32:09] And so, uh, sometimes that might be an uncomfortable question. Very often. It’s just truly, truly being curious about what the person is answering and saying in the moment. And, and digging that, just that little extra bit deeper to think like, okay. So why is that? I think some, some catchall questions that have showed up for me that I’ve relied on where it felt like, man, I really am, you know, trying to pull teeth here and they’re just either having a bad day.

[00:32:34] They were up till three with their kids. The energy is not there for whatever reason. Um, there’s some universal questions that can really start to create some great content for them. Like, uh, tell me what you’re passionate about. I mean, it’s so open ended, but they can take it anywhere and, you know, hopefully they’re excited about what they’re passionate about, because if they’re not, uh, tell me about a, you know, we don’t have to call it a failure, but tell me about a misstep that’s happened in, in your life that if somebody were to go through your same career path, you would say, you know what, just Skip that section of it, and you know, you’re the wiser for it.

[00:33:06] Uh, you know, tell me about, uh, just something that you’re excited about right now. Having just a few three or four open ended catch all questions, I think that’s kind of the safety net for when the acrobatics happen, and you’re like, okay, this, this will keep us all from crashing and burning if we ask one of these.

[00:33:21] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So let, before we move on from crafting these engaging questions, I want to ask, um, Are there, other than yourself, like, where could somebody go and say, okay, that you like, look up to as a great interviewer? Like, you need, you go like, okay, go to these podcasts because this guy knows how to interview, or this lady knows how to interview.

[00:33:39] Do you have some favorite people that you kind of hold up as mentors for asking great interview questions?

[00:33:47] Andrew Mason: Wow, um, I think rather than, I can give you two people maybe, but rather than, uh, these two people, you’ll hear a great question show up. from multiple individuals, and it’ll just kind of like, Oh, I need to ask that. That’s a really good question. A buddy of mine who hasn’t been podcasting for maybe two or three years, uh, uh, had a great question about, you know, what you like when you were 10 and just open ended enough that it really gets somebody to kind of start digging back and, you know, uncovering some thoughts that they hadn’t had in a while.

[00:34:17] I mean, that’s, that’s one I’ll bring out every so often, but, uh, but yeah, that’s, Mentors are people that I would consider mentors from a distance. There’s one person that really inspired me and he was less podcast, but more interview just in, in live environments. Uh, his name was Ken Coleman. And, uh, he actually has kind of climbed the ranks over at Ramsey Solutions.

[00:34:37] And I don’t know if he’s like second or third in command for Dave Ramsey, but he’ll like show up on Dave Ramsey show every so often. And, uh, Knew him knew of him back in 2008, 2009, when he was just kind of doing live conference questions. And he really just had some well thought out questions that he was present, you know, with the guest in a way that you don’t see a whole lot of people being, being, being present with in that, I think level of intensity sometimes is, uh.

[00:35:04] Unsettling for people that aren’t used to it. But for very often, many people are like, man, I’ve got a real person on the other side of this conversation and they’ll respect that and want to honor that. So he really brought that to, to, to interviewing. I’ve really been, been, uh, interested in that. Uh, another sister life mentor, David Bullard, uh, not on any platforms, not on any podcasts, uh, amazing guy who lived in New York, lived in Delaware for seven or eight years and helped teach me a bunch of stuff about truly being authentically curious and not trying to put on airs or become like the.

[00:35:34] You know, whatever the Tai Lopez’s or Grant Cardone’s of the world be posed by the Lambo, like just be yourself. People are truly interested in you. Uh, sometimes it’s difficult to come up with, uh, be okay with that. You know, there’s some soul searching that shows up where it’s like, Hey, I, I need to be okay with being me first before I actually have a conversation or question.

[00:35:53] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point. One of the, um, this is, um, uh, some from Gary. He goes, Swisher is a pro. I also really like Mark Maron. I like to go, this is so, I’m so old, but I like to go, I can’t remember what’s one of those three, like Pluto TV or whatever, but they’ve got like Johnny Carson shows, like just running all the time.

[00:36:11] And I love how he weaves humor into his questions and ask questions of guests. So I like those old school kind of interview guys and the way they do it. And so I, I learn a lot from them. Uh, Gary says, you can’t his own style, but I love watching the actor studio host, James Lipton. Yes, he’s another

[00:36:28] Andrew Mason: Oh my gosh.

[00:36:29] Jeff Sieh: Um, yeah, it’s, what is your favorite curse word? Yeah, I remember that. Um, and, and then Kira has, and so we’re going to move on to this next section about optimizing your podcast production because, um, Andrew’s really great at this. But in that vein, the amazing Kira had a question. Uh, these are awesome insights.

[00:36:45] She goes, uh, you know, Do you leverage any tools like Podmatch to find people outside of your, uh, network to be part of your show? We’d love to hear any feedback on platforms like that. There’s a couple different ones. Uh, Podmatch is a great one. I, uh, uh, Sanfilippo is his last name. I think it’s Alex Sanfilippo is the one who runs it.

[00:37:01] Very, very well done. Great stuff. What are your thoughts on, like, those Podmatching services? Have you used any? Would you ever consider? Or, especially for people who, I guess, are starting out, would you maybe suggest those?

[00:37:16] Andrew Mason: Yeah. Uh, I would consider it. I mean, if something new comes out, I’m open to new technology, new ways of searching. I think, uh, for starters, if you’re just kind of getting your feet wet, uh, there is no replacement for your network as it exists right now. You know, who, who are your friends? And even that second degree, a great tip that, um, our mutual friend, Ryan, uh, Coral taught me was, uh, you know, the second degree LinkedIn search.

[00:37:38] You know, type in the word podcast for friends of our second degrees off of your connections and see who shows up and then maybe ask for an introduction there. I mean, there’s, that’s, that’s a great way to go about it. So don’t use the excuse of needing a new tool. Keep you from getting started, I think is what I’m saying.

[00:37:54] Jeff Sieh: Mm. That’s a great point. Yeah. Use your network. Because then you’re, and it also makes you more comfortable. You’re not nervous for like, it’s like, it’s almost like a blind date, like some of those pod matches. You’ve got to do your due diligence because you just don’t know what’s going to happen. Like Ian, I was like, I don’t know.

[00:38:08] He looks a little strange and he has a funny accent, but I’m going to get him on the show because he’s highly recommended. So, um, yeah. then look what happened. So, uh, yeah, I think, I think that’s a good point. Start with your network first. And then as you grow, if you’re wanting to get more guests, uh, I think that’s a great idea for Podmatch.

[00:38:24] Uh, Kira, thanks for that question. Right, right,

[00:38:28] Ian Anderson Gray: well, I wanted to ask a question about keeping, maintaining high production values. You know, you, I think many of us, that’s really important when producing a podcast. What, what are the kind of key considerations that we should be keeping in mind in order to maintain that high production value?

[00:38:46] Andrew Mason: Ian. Oh my gosh. Um, it’s hard to boil down. Honestly, it’s hard to boil down, but I think, uh, uh, you know, when I was thinking about this, maybe three factors kind of come into play, uh, for me and there are other, I’m sure, but I kind of think of it as like this three way balance, this triangle balance. And, uh, I think there’s a person’s comfortability with the technology.

[00:39:07] I think there’s their current level of self consciousness or nervousness in the moment. And then I think there’s the perception you can’t get an accurate read on this, but your current perception of their level of patience with you and with whatever else they’ve got going on in the moment. And I think each one of those affects the others.

[00:39:23] And so like, if a person’s highly uncomfortable with tech, But also really highly impatient. You know what? There’s a little buzz in the background, but we’re just going to move forward because I want you to have more in the tank for the interview. And if it’s not a deal breaker, like, yeah, you need that minimum effective, like level of tech to be working for us to record in the first place.

[00:39:39] But like, don’t be nitpicky with that person on the three way balance. If they’re super patient, but they’re also like really, really self conscious or the tech’s not working just yet, but you know, like they have a level of patience with you, then like. Yeah, let’s spend a little bit of time. I’m going to sit here and tell you about like, Hey, we don’t produce junk.

[00:39:56] This is going to be an awesome show. You know, you can relax, spend some time level setting with that person, uh, letting them know, you know, what’s going to happen down the pipeline. And then if they’re patient and they’re not nervous and you know, they’re, they are tech savvy, then they’re You know, by all means, my gosh, let’s make it a perfect show.

[00:40:11] You know, let’s spend time tweaking the mics and making sure that this thing’s sounding good. Uh, but I feel like we’ve got to meet people where they are in that balance and, uh, have grace for everything not to be a hundred percent perfect in one of those spaces so that they have more to give because it affects, you know, downstream the rest of the conversation and you don’t want to drain them dry.

[00:40:32] Like right before, you know, you get going.

[00:40:35] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah

[00:40:36] Jeff Sieh: very true. And, and by the way, I was thinking of this, you know, you talked about being gracious and, and help, you know, kind of helping each other out when you’re getting started, I would love it if you guys, we got all sorts of people who are just starting a podcast, people who are pros at podcasting, like Gary Stockton and Jim Fuse and Chris Stone, I know is going to watch this, um, who are pros.

[00:40:54] I would love for you guys to drop in your live show or your podcast, wherever you’re watching from, and tell them, tell us what your show’s about. And maybe some of this organic, like, you know, having people on your shows can happen. So feel free to do that wherever you’re watching from. You have my permission to do that.

[00:41:09] Drop it in there because I think it’d be great. Um, one of the things, and I’m, I’m so fascinated this as an editor, because you both, both you and I have been editing for a long time. How do you decide what stays and what gets cut post production? You mentioned sometimes switching things around to make it clear, like if somebody goes off on a tangent and then comes back with that story.

[00:41:29] Yeah.

[00:41:30] Ian Anderson Gray: Bye

[00:41:32] Jeff Sieh: kind of asked this of Dave Jackson, who’s another pro, and I’m fascinated about by people’s editing process. So how do you do it,

[00:41:39] Andrew Mason: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great question, Jeff. My gosh. Uh, I think that it is determined on, uh, I think it’s determined on, uh, for the tech stuff. You know, if there’s a flub, if somebody drops out and you want to be able to like cut that space, if you can do it without affecting, uh, the overall story arc of the interview, then by all means, you know, let it go.

[00:42:01] That’s a, that’s an easy job. Uh, if, if the person starts rambling or answering a question that maybe you didn’t even ask. So you’re like, I asked question. They’re really passionate and they didn’t hear question a and they’re asking question B. You know, sometimes that happens too. Uh, I’ve, it’s a little bit of a cheat code when you’re, you’re your own editor and producer, but you know, being able to go back in and rerecord the question that asks what they answered, like that’s do that, you know, of course that helps make things more coherent for the audience.

[00:42:29] Uh, there’s like this one liner that

[00:42:32] Ian Anderson Gray: have

[00:42:33] Andrew Mason: is so good. And my gosh, it stuck with me. Um, Our, uh, our wedding photographer gave us, uh, you know, my wife had been together for 11 years. When we got married, our wedding photographer was taking our pictures. And then, uh, he turned around and showed me kind of what he saw through the LCD or lens on the camera after he took a couple of our pictures.

[00:42:51] I’m like, my gosh, I said, Keith, this is, uh, this is amazing. Like I’m here in the moment and that looks better than the actual moment of like, how in the world did you do this? And, uh, he said a line to me that just, completely stuck with me for the last decade. He said, I kind of see it as my job, not to preserve the actual event as it happens sequentially, but it’s my job to preserve the spirit of the event.

[00:43:16] And I’m like, Oh, that’s so good. That is so good, Keith. Gosh. And so, you know, it might mean removing some things and remixing the conversation in a way that it didn’t actually happen, but you’re preserving the spirit of the event when you’re doing it in post production and that makes for a better quality product.

[00:43:32] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. But just, I got to mention this because it’s, it’s changed the way I edit. So I edit the, a lot of the podcasts in Descript. The script has this new tool called Regenerate, and a lot of times guests will flub a word or they’ll drop off something, or there’ll be a mic bonk or something.

[00:43:51] Regenerate will actually use AI to fix that flub, and like the mispronunciation of a word, it’ll catch it that it’s the right way, but it’ll say it wrong. And you make your guests sound better. Better than they were just like you were saying, you know It’s like it’s the spirit of what they’re saying And if you can make a guest thing like man, I didn’t know I sounded that intelligent on the show It’s like well, I I use regenerate

[00:44:14] Andrew Mason: you didn’t actually,

[00:44:15] Jeff Sieh: that. Yeah so but it’s a great tool to do that because you your whole goal as an interviewee is trying to get Those guests to make to look the best they can like you’re not at least for me I’m, not trying to catch them or trip them up or like get an aha moment like I gotcha It’s more of it like oh you are so smart.

[00:44:33] That’s why you’re on my show And so I think stuff like that, where you can make them and polish them up even better is really, really cool. So I just wanted to kind of say that aside.

[00:44:43] Ian Anderson Gray: And you can even do this, you can even do this eye contact thing. Have you played around with

[00:44:48] Jeff Sieh: I do. It’s,

[00:44:49] Andrew Mason: just about to say that. Yep.

[00:44:50] Jeff Sieh: yeah, it’s really cool. Um, it can get a little creepy. Like you don’t blink for an hour and a half on your show. That might be a little too much, but, um, yeah, it’s, it’s pretty cool too. Yeah. It’s really, really great. Mm hmm.

[00:45:01] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. Well, so you mentioned the benefits of Redos for non live sessions. So can you expand on this, how this flexibility enhances the final product?

[00:45:12] Andrew Mason: Yeah. I mean, uh, Redos, I think it kind of goes into what we’re just saying a little bit with the, the sense in that if somebody doesn’t answer the way that you think that they should, or they start going off on that tangent, you’re able to really kind of help assist them. I think what Jeff was saying too, I mean, uh, there are so many cool tools available to us.

[00:45:31] Now you mentioned Descript. I know 11 labs that’s been out for a little while too. My gosh, you can take 30 seconds and. Have them give an answer. You know, it’s, it’s, there’s, there’s so many cool, uh, things that are at our disposal now, uh, and in terms of post production as well, the, the, the quality of being able to do, you know, the single check box.

[00:45:48] I know Descript has the, uh, uh, studio sound, you know, or Adobe’s audio enhance, you know, I, I think everybody’s kind of throwing those around because it’s so easy to use, but it’s an easy win, you know, especially, and yeah, you’ve got to be careful about like, Yeah. Yeah. Uh, how much or little you give it?

[00:46:03] Cause you don’t want them sounding like they’re coming out of the matrix with like the digital voice artifact stuff, you know? Uh, but a little bit, you know, actually really does help the quality of that. But I think the, the freedom of having a redo to get back to that, I think is, Is put some guests at ease knowing that there’s no, there’s, there’s no way that they can go wrong.

[00:46:25] Like if I’m a new guest and I’m really uncomfortable about being on your show, and I know that I have the benefit of being able to restate something in a way that maybe makes more sense or sounds more coherent. Or if I, you know, Call for sneeze or something like that. We can do that over again. It takes so much pressure off.

[00:46:40] Now it doesn’t take all the pressure off. Some people, like you said, Jeff, are just so crazy. Nervous. That’s like, you know, you gotta, you gotta do everything you can to help, uh, help them along. But I think that’s one of those factors that if they know that that box is checked, they don’t have to worry about whether or not they sound perfect.

[00:46:53] And I think we put so much pressure on ourselves to be perfect at first. And, uh, it’s just the difference between, you know, you don’t need a masterpiece even in post production. Hit publish, you know, sometimes it’s just like, we’re trying to make the Mona Lisa and it’s like, this isn’t a work of art as much as it is a conversation.

[00:47:10] And if I want to keep the conversation going, then I need to hit publish.

[00:47:14] Jeff Sieh: So, what, do you have any tips for guest like comfort? You mentioned, you know, trying to make them feel good. Especially when you’re first getting started out for podcasting. I mean, it’s kind of a soft skill that you develop. Like, I have people show up at least 10 minutes before the show. We kind of talk a little bit.

[00:47:30] They know that I’m not out to get them. I kind of give them like, hey, this is what we’re doing. You’re going to go full screen. Don’t, we’re still here. I usually tell people that, you know, like, don’t freak out and, and, and that kind of stuff. Do you have any other tips that you give, uh, to help, like, guests feel comfortable during the interview?

[00:47:44] Because that’s, I think, really a key thing.

[00:47:47] Ian Anderson Gray: everybody.

[00:47:48] Andrew Mason: Yeah. I think just being friendly, like you were saying, you know, people don’t, as long as they feel like you’re not out to get them, you know, the, the gotcha, like even saying out loud, and you’ve done this too, Jeff is, is, uh, this is not a gotcha podcast. I’m here to help, you know, make us both look good.

[00:48:04] Both of our reputations are on the line. So there’s, there’s no possibility in which you’re going to sound like junk and that’s the like either it doesn’t get released if all, you know, all heck breaks loose, you know, uh, or, but there’s no, no world that exists in which you don’t look at in this, I think.

[00:48:20] And then being, Just, I lean way back into that authenticity too, where it’s like, I really do care about you. I really do. Like, I’m here listening to what you have to say because I care and this moment matters and I want to share that with other people. Uh, when people can focus on that, it, It gives them that freedom, I think, from ego to worry about, how do I look?

[00:48:44] What do I sound like? And get into what it is that they’re really there and passionate about sharing about. I think the quicker we can transition them into that space, the better. And those were some really good tactical things that you just mentioned, Jeff, about, Hey, this is what you look like when you’re full screen.

[00:48:57] You know, this is what you sound like right now. Like having that desensitization show up first so that there’s not like a scary, like, Oh, shoot. Like I’m live. There’s the red light, you

[00:49:05] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, right. I used to actually turn off the red light when I would go to people because you could toggle that off because they would go, okay, I’m ready now. And I’m like, well, we’ve been filming for,

[00:49:14] Ian Anderson Gray: hope

[00:49:16] Jeff Sieh: cause that’s when you usually get the best, you get the most relaxed and like, I mean, like, yeah, I’m just, yeah, we’ve been filming.

[00:49:22] I would turn off that red light. Cause I got the best answers. Um, uh, real quick. Oh, this is great from Kira. She goes, Redos, but interviews at East, interviewers at East too. Uh, Jeff Lillory saved our, our broadcast cause we had, uh, technical glitches. Not only was he to redo the questions, but he brought in Ecamm to save the day.

[00:49:40] Yeah, we were having some issues with something and Kira’s a great interview. She does a great job interviewing people. And so we just switched over. It wasn’t that big of a deal, but it was fun. But it does give me a perfect segue into our show sponsor, which is Ecamm, because they are amazing. They are what make this show possible.

[00:49:57] Uh, ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. They’re amazing people. Make sure you check out the community on Facebook and Discord as well. Ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Save 15 percent by using the code JEFF15 on your first purchase. Um, one last question, because we’re getting, man, see, like I said, Andrew, we wouldn’t get to all these

[00:50:13] Andrew Mason: You warned me. Yep.

[00:50:15] Jeff Sieh: Cause I, I love this stuff. Um, what are some common like production pitfalls that emerge that, you know, first time podcast, uh, people or producers should avoid? Like things that if I could go back and tell myself when I first started podcasting, this is what would have saved me a lot of time.

[00:50:33] Andrew Mason: Hmm.

[00:50:33] Ian Anderson Gray: Anybody else

[00:50:35] Andrew Mason: uh, if this is, yeah, if this is the first time that you’re kind of diving into, like, I want to have a platform, I want to have an audience, I want to share stories, uh, and it’s fresh to you. Being okay with not being Tim Ferriss or being okay with not being, you know, whoever that person is, that’s the best that you think out there.

[00:50:54] You know, we, we mentioned the, the painting, you know, the canvas versus the conversation, like don’t overproduce it to the point that it just takes so much time. And this has been a really hard let go for me because, you know, 17, 18 years of video production, I want to make it look perfect. And it’s, It’s a personal struggle for me to say, you know what, this is good enough.

[00:51:14] Not another person is going to look at that one time that person coughed. Gotta let it go. You know, uh, and you know, it’s having the control released to say, I’m here. And you mentioned this, I think it was a show or two ago about, uh, you know, acknowledgement, you know, I’m, I’m here to have a conversation with you.

[00:51:32] And so having, uh, you have to have the content show up in order for the conversation to occur. So I would say. Uh, lean into conversation versus canvas, lean into producing and just be okay with the fact that over time, what you’ve created the last three years, if you’re improving is going to be embarrassing and that’s okay, you know, like, I think we all look back to something that was done a decade ago and not just in terms of quality, is it HD or not, but like, oh man, like that was, that was rough and yeah, maybe you’ll delete that.

[00:52:03] Maybe you’ll take it offline, but let’s, you know, uh, I think.

[00:52:07] Jeff Sieh: if you go back, the shorter the beard, the worse the production value is

[00:52:11] Ian Anderson Gray: can

[00:52:11] Jeff Sieh: what happens. Uh, yeah, that’s the way I measure it. So yeah, I totally agree. So, and let’s go with a final question. Cause I want to do one of the, the, the sections we did and then we’ll, we’ll move on.

[00:52:22] So,

[00:52:26] Ian Anderson Gray: spending a lot of time on at the moment. I’m not the greatest short form, vertical video lover in the world, but I’m spending a lot of time thinking about it because a lot of people are. And so like when Well, how do you choose which segments of your podcast to transform into short form content, Reels or YouTube shorts?

[00:52:48] Cause there’s a lot to choose from. How do you, how do you go about doing that? You can find

[00:52:57] Andrew Mason: I’m sure this can happen in a live environment to just probably taking off moments where, you know, uh, there was a mic drop moment somewhere either for the gas jail. Hopefully we’ve said something of value here today. Um, but there’s a mic drop moment, either from the guest to soundbite, something that shows up where it was personally impactful to Jafari and, and they’re like, Oh man, you know, I need to go back to that.

[00:53:15] I think take. Personal note of those as they show up, uh, if you go back through the show, when you’re editing, you’re going to hear, I usually start with the end and work backwards. And I don’t know if that’s the best way to do it or not, but like here, like the punchline, if the punchline is an amazing punchline to just a 32nd, you know, 42nd segment, uh, that might be a good candidate.

[00:53:37] I think AI is Pretty decent at finding, you know, the one line or two, but this is an area I’m still getting experience in too. You know, I’m doing the thing, you know, just kind of like we’re saying, it’s a conversation putting in the reps every single day. And, uh, I was talking to a buddy of mine. He is running reels that, uh, are just mind blowingly good and seeing a lot of traction.

[00:53:57] And I’m like, what are you doing? That’s different. And he said, I feel like it needs an amazing hook at the beginning. So something that just, you know, is, is a one liner that captures people’s attention. And then if I’m bored, even for just like one second, I will cut it out. Like I am ruthless about cutting out for attention span so that these reels are full watchers.

[00:54:18] And he’s like, and my litmus test was my mom. I actually watched my mom scrolling through Instagram and saw how little, uh, thoughts she gave to whether or not she would scroll past something. And so I think we have to kind of get over ourselves to thinking like, Oh, here’s the masterpiece again. Like, no, they’re probably going to scroll through that if you don’t cut out every single second, that’s really, really boring, you know?

[00:54:36] So, um, thoughts from you guys, though. I’d love to hear your tips too.

[00:54:39] Jeff Sieh: So my thing is, I think it’s re it’s a whole new way to storytell. Um, it, it’s a struggle and you mentioned you, you know, you’ve been doing video editing and podcasting for such a long time. That’s what I cut my teeth on too. Um, it’s really, it’s, it’s a new skill set. It’s really hard. You know, we griped about having to go to vertical video, but it’s even harder to tell a story in under 30 seconds or a minute on YouTube and keep them, like you said, going.

[00:55:04] So it’s almost like multiple hooks. You have that hook at the beginning to get them to stop and then you can’t stop. And there, there is this trend now that it’s not so much what they call, um, And what is it called? Engagement editing, where there are all these cuts and jumps and da da da da. People are getting tired of that.

[00:55:18] They want authentic. So it’s, I think it’s a mixture now of getting that hook and then keeping them with authenticity, but also keeping them engaged, which is a hard thing to do. Um, that’s why you see so many of the ones that are funny cat videos, or there’s a, a prank, you know, TikTok thing, or something that shocks you at the beginning, and you finish to watch to the end.

[00:55:38] So, it’s kind of hard to do for an interview show, so you’ve got to really, like you said, have a hand, heavy hand, And chop those up. Um, but it can lead, I think, to people watching your, they go, Oh, that was really interesting. I want to hear what Andrew had to say more about this, because this was really good.

[00:55:53] I’m going to go watch the full video or listen to the full podcast. So that’s what I think. Ian, what are your, what are your thoughts on this? I know you’re kind of, eh, I don’t like shorts, but I know you, you’re, you’re dabbling. Is that a word in the

[00:56:02] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, well, you have to differentiate between what you like and what consumers like. And like, I, I’m not mad, I’m not into TikTok or reels, but like loads of people are. So, and if you are wanting to expand your audience, you, you, you have to do this. I, I think that that’s, that’s where I’ve gone. Got to, I think, but the landscape is constantly changing, you know, TikTok before it was like 10 second videos and then they wanted a minute.

[00:56:29] And now they’re trying to get you to do longer. So like up to 10 minutes and we’ve got, we’re in this kind of really interesting. we’ve been told that we should do really ultra short ultra processed stuff, which I think we should definitely be doing, but we should also be thinking about the more raw, authentic stuff, particularly as AI becomes more ubiquitous and, and, and takes over the world and, and all that kind of stuff.

[00:56:59] I actually think longer form as well. So. Maybe like three, four minutes experiment. And that’s the thing. You’ve got to try these things and work out what’s going to be right for you and your audience. And what’s right now may not be right in a month’s time.

[00:57:16] Jeff Sieh: That’s right.

[00:57:17] Ian Anderson Gray: keep experimenting.

[00:57:18] Jeff Sieh: That is very, very true. We’ve got some great comments, uh, first of all, from, uh, Gary Stockton. He goes, I like it when George B. Thomas, who’s another, I need to get him on the show, uh, says on the Marketing Profs podcaster, did, did you hear what that, did you hear that, listeners? Let’s wind that back.

[00:57:31] So I think that’s, that’s great. A great way to engage people, have a hook. And he also says, I try, and this is super smart Gary, I do the same thing. He goes, I try to standardize 60 seconds max so it works on TikTok reels and shorts. Yes, you bet. Repurposing, baby. That’s the way to do it. Um, and this I think is from earlier.

[00:57:49] So maybe, uh, Maurice is watching, uh, earlier. He goes, I keep getting asked by guests to get the questions before the interview. They want a hard list. I don’t vary from, I prefer flowing unscripted interviews though. What should I do? This, you guys tell me if I’m wrong, I would give the guests what they want.

[00:58:05] It’s because you’re trying to make them as comfortable as possible. Thoughts? Ian, I’ll go with you and then I’ll wind up with Andrew.

[00:58:14] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, I think you do. You have to think about your guests and making them comfortable, but I think you also need to be, learn to be more intuitive. So hopefully as you go through the interview, you can tell where, whether you are able to ask another question and, and. And it’s almost like asking a question without them even realizing it, that you’re deviating from what’s on the page and they haven’t even realized it.

[00:58:37] I think you need to keep, keep looking at them and making them feel comfortable.

[00:58:42] Jeff Sieh: Andrew, what about you?

[00:58:43] Andrew Mason: uh, exactly what Ian said. The only thing I would add is, um, if you have ever read, uh, Pitch Anything, the idea of prizing, you know, I think now’s not probably the time for prizing, to acting like, hey, if you want to be on my show, this is what you got to do. Um, now’s the time to serve the guest and, you know, like Ian and both of you said, just give them what they want.

[00:59:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, thanks for that question, Maurice. I hope that answered your question. And thank you, the amazing audience, for all the great questions you had today. I appreciate you guys more than you know. Ian Anderson Gray, where can people find out more about you?

[00:59:18] Ian Anderson Gray: My website is iegi. me, you can, you can follow me on all the socials. I have scattered myself pretty much everywhere. So it’d be great to just to chat.

[00:59:27] Jeff Sieh: And you’ve got a podcast too, as well, that’s a new one. So talk about your Smart ADHD podcast.

[00:59:31] Ian Anderson Gray: yeah. So there’s a new podcast called the smart ADHD podcast. It’s for smart creatives and entrepreneurs who are navigating their lives with ADHD. and we look at it. Um, interviewing guests, uh, experts, and also creatives with ADHD looking for smart strategies to help. So yeah, it’s been great fun.

[00:59:50] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Andrew Mason, thank you so much for so much great content today. There were so many, I can’t wait to repurpose this one. This is going to have a ton of stuff in it. Just have to chop it up. It’ll be hard to have a heavy hand, but where can people find out more about you, your services, and all the stuff that you have going on?

[01:00:06] Andrew Mason: Yeah. All the socials is, is great. Uh, as Ian said, uh, YouTube, if you head to YouTube type in the pro guide, all one word podcast, that’s my show. And we do interviews with thought leaders in business technology, creativity and productivity. And if you’re interested in podcast editing and that sort of thing, um, my business is smallpond.

[01:00:24] productions. That’s me.

[01:00:25] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. This has been such a good show. Uh, guys, don’t forget about our sponsors Ecamm, uh, even, uh, Ian’s, I mean, not Ian, um, uh, how, what was it? Oh, Gary says he cannot live. Oh yeah, he can’t do a podcast without Ecamm. So what a great testimonial. You can find out more about Ecamm at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff.

[01:00:44] Uh, do not forget about the amazing toolbox that I have right now. You can find out that at jeffsieh. com forward slash toolbox, totally free. It’s everything I use all my equipment, gear, AI tools, all this stuff. JeffSieh. com forward slash toolbox. Thank you Andrew. Thank you everybody for today. We will see you guys next week.

[01:01:00] Bye everybody.

Live Stream Like a Boss With Tanya Smith

🔔So excited! We’ve got Tanya Smith joining us for “Stream Like a Boss!”

If you’ve watched any of our shows, you’ll know I LOVE this topic, and Tanya is a pro at all things video.

We’ll talk about how to turn lurkers into leads (engagement tips), her systems and processes, and my favorite topic, repurposing strategies.

Don’t miss out on Tanya’s expert advice! 


Mastering Live Video: Turning Lurkers into Leads

Mastering Live Video Engagement: Insights from Coach Tanya Smith

Have you ever wondered what it takes to truly captivate an audience with live video?” That’s the question we’re diving into on this episode of “Social Media News Live” with video coaching and engagement strategist Tanya Smith. As the founder of Get Noticed with Video and host of two video podcasts, Stream Like a Boss TV and App Therapy Club, Tanya is one of the most sought-after coaches in content marketing. Known for her quietly charismatic approach, she shares actionable strategies that will help you transform passive lurkers into active leads and build an authentic online brand through live video. Whether you’re a seasoned streamer or just starting out, this episode is packed with tips that will help you elevate your brand’s online presence.


Acknowledgement: The Key to Engagement

One of Tanya’s core principles for converting lurkers into leads is simple yet powerful: acknowledge your audience in real-time. It’s something that sounds obvious but is often overlooked. Acknowledging viewers, whether it’s by name or through a shout-out, fosters a sense of community and makes people feel valued. This creates an immediate connection and draws people into the conversation, encouraging passive viewers to become active participants. 

Balancing High Value Content and Engagement

Of course, you need to strike a delicate balance between engaging your audience and delivering valuable content. As Tanya explains, “Over-engaging at the expense of delivering your content promise can be problematic.” Her advice? Prepare thoroughly to appear confident, create a content strategy with a consistent theme for your live streams, and maintain a regular schedule to build reliability. It’s all about delivering on your promise while acknowledging and interacting with viewers. Here are a few key tips:

  1. Confidence: Thoroughly prepare your content so you can speak confidently on your topics.
  2. Content Strategy: Develop a theme that ties your live stream topics together cohesively.
  3. Consistency: Maintain a regular schedule so viewers know when to expect you.

Common mistakes to avoid include over-engaging to the point that it derails your content and ignoring viewers altogether. 

Questions and Conversational Prompts

Strategically incorporating questions and conversational prompts into your live stream can significantly enhance engagement. Tanya shared her approach of planning engagement questions beforehand, even planting prompts in her script to ensure she doesn’t miss any. Examples include:

  • “What do you think about this approach?”
  • “Have you tried [specific strategy] before? What was your experience?”
  • “What would you like to learn more about next time?”

These prompts not only drive engagement but also help create a conversation that keeps viewers invested and coming back for more. 

Measuring Success in Live Video Engagement

To determine the success of your live video engagement, it’s essential to keep an eye on key metrics. Tanya highlights the importance of tracking view duration to see how long viewers stay tuned in. “Did they disappear after they said hello, or did they stick around for the full show?” she asks. Monitoring spikes and drops in engagement throughout the stream can reveal which content resonates best. Additionally, evaluating the effectiveness of your calls-to-action (CTAs) is crucial to understand whether your CTAs are converting viewers into leads or customers. 

Informal Metrics and Social Listening

Alongside these formal metrics, Tanya emphasizes informal indicators like live chat interaction and the overall feel of the show. “If people are conversing back and forth with each other and engaging with you, it’s a sign of a good show,” she notes. Social listening also plays a significant role. By acknowledging off-platform mentions like screenshots and tags, you can build stronger connections with your audience. Tools like Vista Social help manage your social inboxes, consolidating all comments in one place, while Agorapulse tracks mentions across platforms, ensuring you never miss a chance to engage with your audience.

Repurposing Strategies for Live Content: Leverage Multiple Platforms

Repurposing live content is a crucial strategy for maximizing visibility across multiple platforms. As Tanya Smith shares, “You’ve put all this time and effort into creating intentional, purposeful content. Why not squeeze as much juice as possible out of it?” Some of her favorite tools include CastMagic for transcription and lead magnet creation, Descript for editing and transcription, and Minvo for automated vertical video clips. Each tool helps streamline the repurposing process, enabling you to turn one live stream into a blog post, social media clips, and even a lead magnet that drives conversions. 

Crafting a Seamless Repurposing Workflow: Checklists and Successful Campaigns

Having a clear checklist is crucial to a smooth repurposing workflow. Tanya emphasizes that your checklist should be tailored to your specific processes. Here’s an example workflow:

  1. Create Social Media Clips: Use tools like Minvo to create clips for TikTok, Instagram Reels, and YouTube Shorts.
  2. Create Blog Posts or Podcasts: Turn transcripts into long-form blog content or audio podcasts.
  3. Craft Lead Magnets: Highlight valuable insights from the transcript to create compelling lead magnets.
  4. Utilize Multiple Tools: Stack tools like Descript, CastMagic, and TubeBuddy to streamline the process.

Tanya’s repurposing journey is filled with successful campaigns, thanks to this strategic approach. For instance, she once transformed a 45-minute live stream into a series of short video clips, a lead magnet, and a podcast episode, each driving traffic back to her core brand. The key takeaway: regularly adjust your checklist to match your evolving preferences and processes for maximum impact. 

Systems and Processes for Live Video

In live video streaming, having reliable systems and processes can save you from technical disasters. Tanya Smith recommends several technical contingencies, such as keeping backup power banks handy to prevent interruptions during outages and using multiple devices to monitor streams from the audience’s perspective. Moreover, familiarize yourself with your streaming platform’s features to manage comments and technical issues quickly. Automation tools like Zapier and Process Street simplify checklist creation and task management, ensuring that your workflow runs smoothly. “Give yourself deadlines and hold yourself accountable,” Tanya advises, emphasizing the importance of setting goals to stay on track and deliver consistent content. 

Choosing the Best Streaming Platforms

When selecting the best streaming platforms, Tanya Smith recommends focusing on where you’ll find the most engagement and growth opportunities. For her, YouTube tops the list due to its discoverability and potential for monetization. She also sees value in streaming to a Facebook profile with Professional Mode enabled, allowing for personal engagement while accessing helpful metrics and scheduling tools. LinkedIn is another excellent option for a business-oriented audience, providing a ready-to-buy community that’s still relatively untapped in the live video space. By strategically choosing these platforms, you can tailor your content to each audience and maximize your reach.

Revisiting and Repurposing Old Content

Criteria for Reusing Past Content

Revisiting and repurposing old content can be a goldmine if done correctly. Tanya suggests starting with criteria like timeliness and relevance. Quality is another essential factor. As your video production skills improve, older content might not meet your current standards. In such cases, Tanya recommends re-recording old but evergreen content with better quality. This allows you to breathe new life into valuable ideas while maintaining a consistent brand image.

Example: Upgrading Evergreen Content

A great example of this strategy is when Tanya revamped a series of old webinars that were still relevant but needed a quality boost. She re-recorded the sessions with improved visuals, enhanced audio, and updated information, then repurposed them as lead magnets and exclusive content for her academy members. By leveraging the value of her previous work while enhancing the quality, she managed to increase engagement and extend the lifespan of her content. “It’s all about maximizing your previous efforts while keeping the message fresh,” she explained.

Wrapping Up: Key Strategies for Live Video Success with Tanya Smith

Turning lurkers into leads through live video engagement requires a strategic approach. Acknowledge your audience in real-time, balance content delivery with engagement, and incorporate conversational prompts to foster interaction. Monitor key metrics like view duration, spikes in engagement, and CTA conversions to measure success. Repurpose your live content effectively by leveraging tools like CastMagic, Descript, and Minvo, while following a well-structured checklist. Finally, establish reliable systems and processes to handle technical contingencies and automate tasks. By revisiting and repurposing old content that remains timely and relevant, you can further extend the reach and impact of your brand.

Resources and Further Learning

Take the first step in mastering live video engagement by implementing the strategies Tanya shared. If you’re looking for deeper learning and more personalized guidance, explore Tanya’s Stream Bosses Academy at Let her help you build a compelling online brand through video and unlock your full potential as a live streamer!

Ecamm Live: We can’t talk about live streaming without mentioning the awesome folks at Ecamm. If you’re looking for a powerful yet easy-to-use live streaming platform, Ecamm Live is a game-changer. You can access exclusive features like overlays, multi-streaming, and isolated audio tracks. Get a 15% discount off your first purchase with my code JEFF15 here!

Thanks for stopping by!


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. I am so glad you are here. If you’re wondering why, uh, old 4Eyes is back, uh, it’s because I was up late last night getting ready for my talk, uh, for Leap. And by the way, if you are not at Leap, it’s going on today. They have a pass that’s going on right now.

[00:00:22] Uh, Tanya did it yesterday. It’s worth the price just to go watch, uh, uh, Tanya’s session because she is amazing, um, and does a great job. So if you want to go get that, you can go to Leap. Don’t leave now, but go to leap. ecamm. com, get that pass, it’s amazing, um, I just, I can’t say how great the speakers have been and it’s totally free.

[00:00:43] Uh, for if you go right now, but if you want to get the pass, it’s 45, I think, but you get like all the past episodes. It’s just, it’s such a deal. So, leap. ecamm. com. Uh, that’s one thing I wanted to say. Connor Brown, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:00:57] Conor Brown: I’m great. I get a live session of Jeff and then another live session where I don’t have to be in the same room with him. It’s great. Yep.

[00:01:04] Jeff Sieh: Exactly. By the way, I was so inspired yesterday by, uh, just all the great speakers that I actually put together this. It was Kat, uh, Mulvihill, who we’ve had on the show before. I put together a All my tools in this toolbox that you guys can get if you go to jeffsieh. com forward slash toolbox. It’s really cool.

[00:01:24] I built it in Notion. It publishes as a webpage. Um, I’m, the email sequence that I’m using is from Liz Wilka. All the speakers. I’m using all their stuff. Like, if you want to see how that works, I go to jeffsieh. com forward slash toolbox. It’s really, really cool. Let me know what you think, because this is like the first experiment with this stuff.

[00:01:42] Um, very excited, uh, to be here. Tanya, I’m so glad that you’re here as well. Thank you for joining us today. I know you spoke yesterday, so you’re probably exhausted. Oh, is everybody back?

[00:01:55] Tanya Smith: Uh, froze for a second, but I think I’m back.

[00:01:58] Jeff Sieh: Okay, everybody’s back. That’s weird. There are storms going around here in, uh, uh, Tanya, you’re in Dallas. I’m in Longview. There are storms blowing through the area, so hopefully,

[00:02:07] Tanya Smith: they are. Oh,

[00:02:10] Jeff Sieh: I want to bring up some comments from our friend Gary Stockton says, top of Friday morning to you, lovely faces.

[00:02:18] Um, and then Chris from Cast Ahead says, look at these three bosses on my screen right now. Yes, uh, we are gonna boss you around today, Chris Stone. Um, so, yeah, amazing people. Look at all these people, uh, Jim is saying, uh, Tanya rocks. So, your fan club is here.

[00:02:40] Tanya Smith: I love them.

[00:02:41] Jeff Sieh: and then we’ve got Katie Simpson from the UK here, and another guy.

[00:02:45] She’s over on YouTube today. And, yeah, so, I don’t know if you saw it yesterday, Chris. Uh, but her talk, uh, he goes, Tanya brings it. So very,

[00:02:54] Tanya Smith: thank you, Chris.

[00:02:56] Jeff Sieh: Katie

[00:02:56] Tanya Smith: Thank you,

[00:02:57] Jeff Sieh: been leaping all over the place. Uh, uh, streaming. I know I need to know. Okay. Jim is here. We’re ready. We’re going to get started. Connor, are you ready?

[00:03:06] We’re going to go ahead and get ready. Hit the go on the podcast machine. And get this party started. You ready?

[00:03:10] Conor Brown: Let’s do it.

[00:03:11] Jeff Sieh: Alright. Hello folks, welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh. And you’re not.

[00:03:18] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:03:24] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever wondered what it takes to truly captivate an audience with live video? Or maybe you’re curious about the strategies that transform passive viewers into active community members. Maybe you’re eager to integrate video into your marketing to elevate your brand’s online presence. If you’ve had any of those thoughts recently, then you are in for a great experience today.

[00:03:45] We are welcoming Tanya Smith, a friend who is an expert at video coaching and engagement strategy. She’s going to provide her top strategies for building a compelling online brand through video. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live.

[00:04:02] Tanya, thank you once again for being here today.

[00:04:05] Tanya Smith: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really excited. And yeah, I did lose. I think you were asking if I might’ve lost my voice from talking so much yesterday. Probably.

[00:04:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Oh, it’s going to be a rough one today. I could feel it. I could feel it. So Connor, we’ve got Connor here.

[00:04:20] Conor Brown: Yeah, just a little bit more out of you today, because I know we’re going to get some good stuff. And if you don’t know Tanya, you absolutely should, because she’s the founder of Get Noticed with Video. She’s a premier video coach, savvy business strategist, and the quietly charismatic host of two video podcasts, Stream Like a Boss TV and App Therapy Club.

[00:04:42] She is some, she’s among some of the most sought after coaches in content. Marketing, she’s often called a walking Google and has been a go to guide for service providers and small businesses looking to amplify their online brand through meaningful online conversation. She has helped countless individuals transform their business by seamlessly integrating video into their sales funnel and convert those conversations.

[00:05:10] Tanya, we’re so excited. Thanks so much again for being on the show today. You

[00:05:31] Jeff Sieh: make sure you guys go check that out. And we mentioned before, but I’m going to do it again.

[00:05:35] Leap Into Live is going, and I’m going to be there today at three o’clock central time. I’ll be talking about Beyond the Stream, some of my favorite topics, and we’re going to be talking about some of those today, about repurposing. And you can find out all about that and go watch live there for free by going to leap.

[00:05:51] ecamm. com. They have a pass that you can buy for 45, which you’ll get access to All of the recordings. Tanya did hers yesterday. She was amazing. It’s worth that price just to see her talk. You can see that. But the cool thing is you get access to all the other Leap events as well with that purchase. And it’s got a workbook with a bunch of cool stuff in it.

[00:06:11] So leap. ecamm. com. All right. So let’s jump into this first section because Uh, I think this is really important for a lot of people. And it’s, I know that’s one of those topics that you talk a lot about, Tanya, but turning lurkers into leads. Well, let’s, let’s just jump right into that. What are your, some of your favorite ways that you do that?

[00:06:33] Like engaging people with live video content.

[00:06:38] Tanya Smith: Oh my goodness, I’m gonna say this, um, it’s gonna sound simple, but it’s not easy. It’s gonna sound so, so I’m gonna give you something, I’m gonna say something really quick here and, and you’re gonna probably be like, yeah, that sounds, Like obvious. But here’s the thing. The biggest thing is acknowledgement.

[00:06:59] Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

[00:07:00] Tanya Smith: way to actually draw people into your conversation, to draw people into your, even your sales funnel, if you will, at some point is to acknowledge them. I remember when I first started watching live streams and I remember a very specific person, I won’t say the name. He would say, Hey, I’m doing this live stream and I am live, but I’m going to go ahead and get through this content.

[00:07:26] And, and later I heard kind of the backstory about how he was delivering. And he said he didn’t want to engage with people because it would throw him off of his content. For me, it’s the exact opposite. I’m finding that you can engage people when you actually talk to them and create conversations with your video content.

[00:07:44] So that’s the number one tip is. And acknowledge that people are there and that they took the time to really, you know, connect with you and to be on your show, even if they’re just in the chat.

[00:07:58] Conor Brown: So you mean we should do stuff like saying hello to Virginia, hello to Dustin, hello to Gary, hello to Jim, hello to Chris, hello to everybody watching. Thanks for watching and thanks for being here. That’s such an easy thing to do. And I think once you get your head around just incorporating it a little bit here or there, it makes such an impact.

[00:08:15] And, and I think it makes a lot of people’s day too, when they’re given time and you’re showing that you’re grateful for them being here, but what about some of the common like mistakes you see when, when people are trying to convert viewers into leads? I would think that maybe being a little bit too forceful, uh, might be a, a top thing to kind of avoid.

[00:08:36] Tanya Smith: there’s a couple of things that can really draw, make you, Mess up the flow. Um, one is that you’re over killing it. So if you’re constantly having conversations with the folks in the chat and you’re not really delivering on the content that you promised you would deliver, that’s problematic. So you do have to have that balance and make sure that you’re There’s three things that I like to talk about.

[00:09:00] One, that you appear confident Like, you know what you’re talking about. So that means you need to prepare. That means you need to actually have the knowledge that you say you’re going to deliver. Um, two, having some type of content strategy. So having a, a theme that runs through the different topics that you deliver when you are talking on your live streams.

[00:09:23] That’s one of the things we talked about last night is, There can be disconnect when you’re all over the place and none of your content is really connecting to the other content that you’ve put out there. The third thing is consistency. So that messes with your engagement. If you’re only on today and then maybe a month later, you might pop up and then maybe two weeks late and you’re always on a different day and time that it creates this inconsistency such that people don’t rely on you to be available when they can watch.

[00:09:57] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great, that’s a great point. And we’ve actually had some, uh, yeah, I would say bigger guests say like, yeah, I’d love to be on your show, but I can’t do it on Fridays. I’m like, eh, that’s where we, that’s when we do it. Yeah. And now we’ve done some pre recorded stuff before when like we’re taking a break or something, but like everybody knows that we show up 10 a.

[00:10:16] m. Central every Friday. And, uh, and Katie says this, she goes, that’s partly why I love this show. Acknowledgement. So. Um, on that note, and then Gary says it drives engagement on this, in the streams too, like that’s what I love to see is like the chat and like them welcoming each other and talking to each other.

[00:10:34] I just think that is, that is really cool, uh, as a community where people are taking care of each other. What are some, um, other than like bringing up comments, are there some things that you like to do to drive engagement? You mentioned, you know, being consistent. But an acknowledgment, uh, other than just pulling up great comments, like Kirk watching over on, uh, on LinkedIn.

[00:10:56] Hey, Kirk, how you doing? Uh, uh, what are some other ways that you can like get people to get engaged, interact with your streams that you like to do?

[00:11:05] Tanya Smith: Um, one of the things that I found I have to do because, okay, so I’m just going to be honest. I’m going to say something very transparent with you. I am the person who can never remember the punchline on a joke.

[00:11:19] Jeff Sieh: That’s my wife.

[00:11:20] Tanya Smith: So I’m going to start with that. And I’m going to tell you that I do, I intentionally plant the seeds.

[00:11:29] For myself, different engagement questions. I make sure that when I’m writing out my script, even though it’s an outline, it’s a skeletal script. So it’s not a full script. So I’m not reading. I’m thinking ahead of, okay, what kind of questions should I ask at these different points that will get people to interact?

[00:11:48] Because if I fail to do that, sometimes I just won’t do it. That is really a secret to having engagement is drawing people in and asking them to interact with you in the first place. So, oh,

[00:12:03] Jeff Sieh: That’s a good point. Yeah. By the way, uh, and Gary goes, uh, Tanya has such a cool voice, a very calming. Well, she has a podcast too, Gary. So, uh, we’ve been bringing up her lower third. It’s, um, what’s the best URL to find your podcasts at? Uh, Tanya.

[00:12:17] Tanya Smith: goodness. Um, right now I, I would say streamlikeaboss. tv is where you can go to find most of my stuff. And if you’re there, there is a page. A resource page that will have a link to the podcast. Here’s why I say that because I’m in the process of potentially moving it after we’ve done all this Leap stuff.

[00:12:37] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:12:38] Tanya Smith: So I got a lot of really great tips in the last 48 hours that I think, um, Is giving me vibes to move from where I am. So go to streamlikeaboss. tv and that’s the best way to keep connected and find out all the things that we’re doing.

[00:12:53] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Awesome.

[00:12:55] Conor Brown: Love it. I second the soothing voice. This is a very peaceful episode we got so far and let’s let’s keep that very chill, very mellow. I love it. And you know, so we’re talking about strategies, engagement strategies, right? So we come up with a couple, we actively, you know, consciously decide we’re going to include these types of strategies in our live show.

[00:13:16] But how do we measure that success of the engagement strategies that we’re using? I think we can come off of a live show and be like, that was great. The audience was doing so much. It was just a really, really awesome show. We can kind of leave it at that. But how do we kind of go back and say, you know what?

[00:13:32] This strategy that I did, that was successful. What do those measurements look like for you?

[00:13:38] Tanya Smith: Yeah. So a couple of things, there’s some that are informal and then there may be some things that are a little bit more formal informally. Yeah, I think you’re going to have a gut feeling. Um, I do think that when you see that there’s interaction and there’s engagement in the chat and people are conversing back and forth with each other and they’re also interacting with you, I think that can be some measure that, hey, this is a good show.

[00:14:02] This is, this is working well. However, you do need to take a look at your metrics. You need to look at how long did people actually stay on the show? How did they, how long were they viewing? The content that you were putting out there, did they disappear after they said, Hey, what’s up? And then they were out at what points during the show, during the episode, are you seeing that people are, um, your, your engagement is spiking or that people are staying longer?

[00:14:30] And at what points is it kind of like. People are dropping off. You need to pay attention to that and use that as leverage. The other thing for me, um, because tied to this whole idea of engagement, especially because I’m an entrepreneur, so I have things to sell. And I know that there are some creators that don’t, but if you do, you need to be paying attention to whether or not people are actually taking action because there’s call to action bites that you’re also incorporating throughout your show, not just at the end, but you’re seeding it.

[00:15:03] Seeding different links and you’ve seen Jeff doing this right now. Jeff and Connor are putting different seeds into this show right now without overkill and making it feel salesy, but they’re talking about, you know, pointing you in the direction, for instance, of Jeff’s upcoming episode that he’s going to be doing or his speaking thing that he’s going to be doing at Leap, um, his toolbox.

[00:15:25] He mentioned that. So wherever you’re seeing that people are clicking. If they’re taking action on the things that you’re influencing them and asking them to take action on, that’s also to me, another measure that is a little bit more formal and definitely more helpful. So, you know, that you’re hitting the right notes.

[00:15:45] Jeff Sieh: Those are great, great tips. And on, on that same, we’re talking about live video, we’re talking about, you know, engagement. Um, you know, Gary has been awesome in the past where he has actually taken a screenshot of the show and posted it on to, you know, Twitter or Instagram. So, can you talk a little bit about maybe some tools that you use for, like, social listening so you don’t miss those comments?

[00:16:10] And, because I, I feel that’s part of engagement too, is when somebody mentions you and takes the, the time to actually take a screenshot and throw it over on their own social, you don’t want to miss that. And so, I think that’s a big part of engagement. What are your recommendations or thoughts on that?

[00:16:26] Tanya Smith: You know, I used to, excuse me, be all over the place. I used to have to try to keep track of all the things everywhere. One thing I will tell you, especially if you’re doing anything on YouTube that I’ve found to be helpful is to make sure again, this sounds simple, but not easy. Make sure you turn your notifications on for comments.

[00:16:47] Jeff Sieh: Mm

[00:16:47] Tanya Smith: So definitely do that. Um, turning on your notifications for YouTube, I think is key, but the one tool right now that I found to be just stellar, and it was actually an AppSumo deal. I know your, I know your fellow AppSumo people. Um, I found Vista Social and Vista Social has turned into just a powerhouse for me as it relates to scheduling my social media posts, but also there’s a social inbox that pulls All of my comments into one place, YouTube included.

[00:17:22] So that’s been super helpful for me to just go in and scan, even if it’s like 10 minutes a day to see who has interacted, who has reached out, who has tagged me in something so that I can respond.

[00:17:35] Jeff Sieh: That’s any, so I, I, since I’ve been a Gora Pulse ambassador, that’s one of the things that it does for me, is it lets me see the, you know, people who mention the show or whatever, and I can go into that. But yeah, AppSumo, that’s a great deal, uh, to go check out. I want to pull up this comment from, uh, Chris.

[00:17:51] He goes, uh, that is so key. People are already tuning out when you are winding down. You have to pepper in calls to action throughout the show. And that is so true. And what I, what I do is, you know, if you notice like, I mean, you probably have noticed, but I, I bring up these lower thirds and then I bring up when, when, uh, Connor is talking or Tanya is talking that I bring up this one.

[00:18:13] I want to, I want to, you know, highlight my hosts, my co host and my, my guest, but also I’m trying to do that pattern interrupt while we’re going. And the cool thing is with Ecamm is that since I’m using that, I can have multi streams and I have a. In product where it’s all burnt in all the lower thirds Brandon, but then I also have Tanya and Connor and myself all in separate tracks that makes me able to reuse and repurpose super, super easy because I don’t have to worry about those lower thirds and cropping weird or whatever because I have those clean tracks.

[00:18:45] But anyway, I just want to give you a little bit of background on why we do what we do. Virginia says this, even when I watch the replay on Tanya’s show and make a comment, she always responds. See. That is so very, very cool. Um, and then Chris has a question and he says, what would you say to the live streamer who may be hesitant about looking salesy when they are talking about offers or products?

[00:19:11] Tanya Smith: I love that question. I love it. And, and here’s what I think about that. I think that it’s true. Um, people are fearful of appearing to be salesy. A lot of people say they, I’m not a salesperson, so I’m just not going to sell anything. But the thing is when you put yourself out there on video, even if you’re just doing audio, whatever you’re doing, you’re selling anyway.

[00:19:34] You’re selling something. It may not be for a monetary exchange, but, but you’re selling yourself. You’re selling what you know. You’re, you’re giving people something in exchange for the fact that they’re watching, right? So to me, the most important thing is that it’s not, your content should be related to To the things that you’re offering of service.

[00:19:56] When I talked about this yesterday, um, with the Leap Conference, the big message point I hope people took home was this, and that is, as you’re creating your content in the first place, if you’re creating a live stream, if you’re creating any type of video content, work a little bit backwards. What is it that you’re wanting to accomplish with this thing?

[00:20:17] What’s the outcome? And I’m not, I’m not saying that every single thing you have needs to be about selling a product, but if you know that you have, you can give someone the benefit of actually enjoying the product. even further knowledge from you, even more of an experience with you, and they’re willing to invest.

[00:20:37] Why are you not giving them the opportunity to do that? So as you’re choosing your content to talk about, you need to be thinking about what is this tied to in relation to my library and my arsenal of tools and services. So think about what is it I’m offering? Am I offering a course? Is it a webinar? Is it a lead magnet?

[00:20:57] What is it? And then when you’re having that conversation, just by nature of you having the conversation and delivering the content, it’s pointing people back to the fact that they can now experience even more of you by going to your website, by going to your landing page, by going to another event that you’re going to participate in.

[00:21:17] So to me, it’s about the conversational content. It’s not about selling content, it’s about all of these things as you over time become proficient in your craft at delivering your message, this is going to happen. You will sell. So just be careful that you don’t focus so much on, Hey, I want to share this thing with you for 97.

[00:21:42] All you got to do is go over. No. Instead of doing it that way, what you’re doing is you’re saying, Hey, I’ve got this, this, this message I want to share with you, or this tip. And if you want to get more information about this tip, I also talk a little bit more about the other nine steps of the 10 steps in my course that’s over here.

[00:22:02] So if you would like that, either DM me for the link, or I’ll pop it up on screen. That’s not salesy. That is conversation. And that is you truly allowing people to take advantage of having more time with you. in exchange for currency or in exchange for an email. That’s how I see it.

[00:22:23] Conor Brown: I love that it’s that working back kind of thing. What do you have and how can you incorporate that into anything? And I think personal brand plays a role in that and Abby has a great question around that. She says, are there certain engagement strategies? I’m Jeff Sieh, how to you don’t like or seem inauthentic.

[00:22:41] How do you find strategies that are specific to your brand? It’s a, it’s a great question. It’s kind of like, you can see how others are succeeding, but if what they’re doing doesn’t match your brand, you, you probably shouldn’t do it. Like you see Dude Perfect throwing a football across a, a, a field and getting into a small thing.

[00:22:59] So smash that like button, but you’re an, you’re Here’s how you do your taxes so you don’t go to jail. Smash that like button. That doesn’t really seem like it makes sense to your personal brand strategy. So how important is, is that?

[00:23:13] Tanya Smith: I think that’s super important and I agree with you that this is another excellent question because I will tell you I failed miserably when I first started. I was looking at other people’s content. I was looking at other people who were successful, whatever, however you just define that. And I thought, well, I’ve got to be this extrovert.

[00:23:34] I need to really just pump it up. And look, this goes back to some of my corporate mentality where I had a boss that once told me that I was not bouncing off the walls enough for him.

[00:23:46] Jeff Sieh: Oh gosh.

[00:23:47] Tanya Smith: so I’m an introvert and, and, you know, introverts process things a little bit differently and personalities are different.

[00:23:54] And what I had to realize is that I needed to stop trying to be someone else or like someone else, take the strategies and the tactics that I saw that were working that could work for me, apply them, try them. And if they didn’t work, then I try something else. I don’t worry too much anymore about failing because I never see failure.

[00:24:15] So when I experiment with different Strategies, different tactics, different ways of approaching content. If it doesn’t work, I just don’t do it anymore. So like I said about the podcast, I’m like, well, yeah, I was doing it this way. I had it on Substack, but I think I’m going to move it. And I don’t worry about that being a mistake or a fail.

[00:24:37] It was a lesson learned. I tried it. I wouldn’t have known had I not tried it. And now I’m going to move on to something else. Oh,

[00:24:46] Jeff Sieh: I love that. Not being, it’s, it’s an experiment, not a failure. That is really good. Yeah.

[00:24:51] Conor Brown: Absolutely.

[00:24:52] Jeff Sieh: Uh, by the way, the Gabe Leaf, uh, Leo Experience says, I never like smashing the like button because I have broken so many keyboards. Yes, that is probably, important safety tip.

[00:25:02] Conor Brown: Yeah, great safety tip. That’s, those are the kind of safety tips you get here at Social Media News Live.

[00:25:06] Jeff Sieh: that’s right.

[00:25:08] Conor Brown: It’s a time to move into Jeff’s favorite section, repurposing strategies. Um, I think, you know, it’s great. To do a live show, you’re going to show up at a, at a certain time, right?

[00:25:19] People are going to come to you, but like we said before, life gets in the way, whether it’s for the viewers or they miss something or, or whatever. And you want to kind of try to suck as much, uh, uh, content, I guess you could say out of this, this one singular live stream that you do, you see it with what Jeff does with this show.

[00:25:37] He posts it all over the place, but for you, you know, what are your top tips for Repurposing, um, the live content that you’ve created and posting it to other social media platforms around the internet.

[00:25:52] Tanya Smith: this is my favorite thing right now. Honestly, it really is. So I have a whole 10 step process. I just taught this in my academy the other day. And what I love about repurposing is that it gives you It gives you the maximum benefit, the maximum bang for your buck. You’ve put all this time and effort into creating intentional, purposeful content.

[00:26:16] Why the heck are you not doing anything with it? So a couple of things that I like to do, and one of my really favorite tools right now is Cast Magic. I know you’ve heard people, if anybody’s been watching the Leap event, A lot of people have been talking about Cast Magic, but I love the ability to first of all take that one live stream and now create multiple social media clips so I can use video AI, I can use Minvo, we were talking about that Jeff right before, um, I can use any of these clipping tools that are out there to actually take the video and clip it into smaller clips.

[00:26:54] clips with purpose and intent. Again, we got to go back to that because not every clip is going to matter or have something relevant to say, but I can turn that or convert that into quote images. I can create audiograms. I can convert the whole thing into a podcast or a blog, and I mean audio podcast specifically, or a blog.

[00:27:14] And then I also can even create, get this, with Cast Magic, one of the things that I love to put in there is. So I can say, Hey, create a lead magnet for me or a content upgrade

[00:27:28] Conor Brown: us.

[00:27:30] Tanya Smith: to, when I post the blog or I share the video, allows people to go to a page, a landing page where they sign up so that they can get access to the 10 tips that I shared in this one video.

[00:27:42] Conor Brown: all

[00:27:47] Tanya Smith: think of, you can do when it comes to video. And because you’re, you’re starting with the video, you’ve got all the things. You’ve got the visuals, you’ve got the audio, you’ve got, if you’ve got guests. You’ve got guest spotlights, you’ve got the transcript, which you can turn into anything, and that’s why I love Cast Magic doing that.

[00:28:07] You’ve got emotion, you’ve got expression, people can see how passionate you are if they’re watching the video or the visual. All of the things are in there, so you have endless amounts of content, if it’s evergreen content, meaning that it’s still going to be relevant two, three years from now, or even Tomorrow, these days, right?

[00:28:29] But yeah, it’s, it’s amazing. I love repurposing and there’s a thousand repurposing tools that are out there that I love, but I had to stick to, you know, my tech toolbox like Jeff does.

[00:28:40] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so, Shadeless for Motion, um, if you guys want to get the toolbox. And she mentioned Cast Magic, it’s in there. Um, Descript is what I use to edit my, all my podcasts. And it does a lot of, some of the same things. But I like to stack different tools together. You mentioned, uh, Minvo.

[00:28:55] And I’m going to be talking about this in my presentation later today. Is, I’ll go and use Descript and we’ll find the good clips. And then we’ll take that and for vertical video especially, Abby does all the other stuff inside of Descript for repurposing, but for vertical video, we use Minvo, and by the way This is like, it’s, it’s not a subscription.

[00:29:14] Like we were talking about this beforehand. So, uh, it’s amazing right now. They’ve extended this deal on AppSumo, uh, for, I think this is just this weekend. Otherwise it goes back to a subscription. So if you want to get that, it’s at jeffsieh. com forward slash. M I N V O. That will take you right to the AppSumo link to get that because, uh, I just put that up real quick because I’m going to use it in my presentation today because when it’s gone, it’s gone, and I don’t know about you, but I am tired of subscriptions, so anything that I can buy once, I am going to do.

[00:29:45] So, JeffSieh. com forward slash Minvo will take you right to the AppSumo link, so, and my toolbox has everything in it as well, so make sure you check that out. Thank you for that shout out, uh, Tanya. But you’ve got more of your, uh, your friends. Oh, um, Katie says a video AI is her favorite. I am checking that one out as, uh, as well.

[00:30:03] Katie, thank you for that. Uh, the more tools, the better, I always say. And, uh, Dan says, Tanya isn’t just a boss. She’s an inspiration and a role model. Man, your whole, like,

[00:30:12] Tanya Smith: Damn,

[00:30:13] Jeff Sieh: uh, team came today. All your, all your fans, like, showed up. This is amazing. I love it. Um, that’s right. So, when we’re talking about repurposing strategies.

[00:30:24] You mentioned Minvo and some of their tools. What, what is, what have you found when you do a big live long video like this one, where the, the gold is like, is how do you find those sections that you can share for those little, you know, YouTube shorts? Cause I know you’re doing that on your channel. Um, all those, those little pieces that are so popular right now, but also can drive people to your longer, longer form content.

[00:30:48] Tanya Smith: How do you find them? So I’ll tell you, I used to do it manually. Okay, so there’s three ways that you could do this. One is manually and you’re listening to yourself or having a team member or somebody listen to you. Listen to it and just pick out those points where you think, ooh, this is something that is a standalone message, which by the way, this part, this criteria actually can fit any of the three methods I’m going to share with you.

[00:31:12] So it needs to be something that is a standalone message that if no one heard anything else, They get some value from what you just said or what was said in that clip. So that’s one thing. Um, a second thing is to make sure that it has a, it’s not like clipped to the point to where you’re cut off at the beginning or cut off at the end.

[00:31:33] So you need to be careful that it is, it is a full thought if you can. Okay. But the three ways manually, which takes a lot of time and I would not recommend it. It’s ridiculous. It doesn’t make sense anymore now that we have AI tools. The second way is that you can, um, actually use a tool like Descript. So Jeff mentioned Descript and I think that’s in his toolbox too, so make sure you go get the toolbox.

[00:32:02] Because Descript allows you to then kind of go through, and you’re still kind of doing a little bit of manual processing, but You can actually see the words and so that makes for that cleaner cut that I’m talking about. And then the third way, which has honestly been my favorite way lately because I’m so Busy, but is to use an AI intelligent clip.

[00:32:24] So when you’re using tools like Video AI, Opus, um, Minvo, any of those tools will allow you to automatically pull. The information or pull suggested clips, and they give you by ranking, so you’ll see scores next to each of these, for instance, in some of those tools, it’ll say 96 percent likelihood that this will have SEO power, which I want.

[00:32:50] I want that. Um, but you still need to review, even though the tool, the AI is telling you that you still need to review and make sure it’s a complete thought. It’s something that withstand alone, even if nobody heard the rest of it, and it’s a clean cut. So you might have to do a little bit of editing to make sure that happens, but those are my thoughts on finding the right clips.

[00:33:13] Jeff Sieh: on that point, Gary says, uh, I, I like that Descript can, uh, do a good job of processing Ecamm clips. Templates are the key. That is very true. And then, uh, you know, and, and he also says, I’ve also started using some of Descript’s B roll. Chris Stone is a master at this. Yes, I would agree that he is. Um, one of the things that I like to do in Descript and Abby kind of does this for us as well.

[00:33:35] She, when you go and you’re doing a live show, like we do a question and answer like those, that’s almost a perfect little clip and you can usually go scram really quickly and get that. Um, the one thing we mentioned Minvo. That I like about that. It doesn’t just give you, you know, 62nd, you know, bits, you can actually get longer ones that you could use for YouTube.

[00:33:57] Another tool that I wanna mention that’s also in my toolbox is Tube Buddy, which actually is great because they have this new feature where you can, it’s right there when you go to your YouTube, it will actually recommend shorts. And I like their, because they have all the data, the YouTube, you know, goodies that they can pull from.

[00:34:15] So that’s really, really cool as well. So, tube Buddy is another one for you guys. Uh, taking notes.

[00:34:19] Tanya Smith: There’s one more thing I’ll mention because you just brought this up for me. Um, and, and I do like that suggested shorts too. I forgot about that in TubeBuddy. I need to go back to using that more. Um, one more thing you can do, and this is something I started to do maybe a couple months ago, I kind of fell off, but I’m picking it back up, is at the end of your live stream you can do a recap and let people know, hey, I’m going to do my 60 second or less recap of what we just talked about.

[00:34:47] Typically for me, for instance, mine is going to last about 45 minutes to an hour long, depending on the chat. Um, and so I’ll have three key message points almost every time. Somewhere between three to five, but go through and say, Hey, make sure that it’s a clean recording. That’s why I love ISO in Ecamm, which I know you kind of referred to a little bit earlier, but have a clean recording that doesn’t have all the banners and the graphics and all of that stuff up on the screen, let people know, Hey, I’m going to do my 60 second recap and then go through each of the points with a really quick summary of what you talked about, and that can be easily converted into shorts. So I love that too.

[00:35:27] Jeff Sieh: Those are

[00:35:27] Tanya Smith: made me think of it.

[00:35:28] Conor Brown: And I know, I know I’m sure you have your process, you know, once you hit end on the live stream, you’re going right into the next thing and you’re getting ready to repurpose all of that stuff. We talked about so many awesome tools and, and strategies for, for getting that content, but what’s like a really good example if you have one of just a successful campaign that you’ve taken, Repurposing from, right?

[00:35:54] So you have your live, you’ve got your repurposing, um, a strategy that you’ve seen, like it just continues to work for me, whether it’s posting somewhere or a kind of, you know, Jeff talked about a Q& A sort of clip. You have any, you know, things to share, real world experience with that?

[00:36:12] Tanya Smith: Um, and let me make sure I get the question right. So I’m going to answer, but then if I didn’t hit on what you’re asking, let me know. I think if I had to give you one success strategy from the way that I do my workflow, One success strategy for me, and again, it’s going to sound simple, but somebody’s going to get a light bulb moment.

[00:36:36] I just know it. Checklists are everything for me, but sometimes I forget to refer to them. And so I use a tool, another tool called Process Street. And so what makes my flow successful is if when I do that YouTube video, And I’m also broadcasting on other spaces, but it’s pulling from YouTube via Zapier.

[00:37:01] Conor Brown: Hello,

[00:37:03] Tanya Smith: into Process Street, which then says, Oh, she’s got a new video. And here’s the link to that video. And here’s a checklist of the things she needs to do. Let me send her an email so that she knows the things she needs to do. So that I get that email in my inbox shortly after I’ve done the live.

[00:37:21] And I can start checking off the box with the different repurposing things that need to get done

[00:37:27] Conor Brown: is Grace Duffy.

[00:37:32] Tanya Smith: the more I have senior moments. And so that has been, that’s been a game changer for me is to have that thing pop up in my inbox with a star in it because it’s priority saying, Hey, you haven’t done the checklist for this video.

[00:37:48] Conor Brown: love that,

[00:37:49] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great, that’s a great piece. So I love that automation process. I know you’re big into automation. I know you do a lot of cool, like things like that. One of the things that we started doing is that. And this is just for our vertical video, is we use So I upload one vertical video and it’s tick TikTok.

[00:38:08] And the reason I do it, TikTok first is then that kicks off things to go to reels and then to shorts, and then to, so it’ll, it’ll, and we use it for guys podcasts as well, because he doesn’t do video, but we’re able to take his, um, audio and put like a waveform on it and put it to YouTube for people to watch.

[00:38:24] And it’s all automatic, which. You know, it sounds like, Oh, it’s just easy to just do this, but having that automatic, like that saves you so much time and not as much stress. I love that checklist thing. I’m going to have to, I’m going to have to do that. So, um, did you have something Connor? I’m sorry. I interrupted you in the middle of that.

[00:38:39] Conor Brown: No, that was, that was perfect. No, I love the, the, cause I think people can get like really daunted by where do I even start with repurposing? So if you just sit down and say, let’s start with this, and then you got the checklist, automate it for yourself.

[00:38:53] Tanya Smith: And the thing is, your checklist is going to, it’s going to be different than anybody else’s checklist. So what you really have to do initially, to be honest with you, if you’re just starting out and you’re hearing us talk about automation and all the things, you’re going to have to figure out what is it that you want to go into your checklist, right?

[00:39:11] You can borrow other people’s checklists, but there are going to be little tweaks and nuances that may be different for you and for yourself. Style of thinking, learning, and applying. So make sure that you adjust and adapt your checklist. My workflows, I look at them regularly so I can make sure, okay, is that still what I do?

[00:39:32] Do I need to make sure I adjust that a little bit? And when you have these checklists and you’ve created these workflows and you’ve put these things. in place and you know, step by step, these are the success steps for me. Now you have something that you can easily share and hand off and outsource to someone else to assist you with.

[00:39:50] So I think checklist, automation, all the things we’re talking about are good, but just know there’s no single answer. There’s no one checklist that is the checklist of all time. Like, you’re going to have to create it.

[00:40:04] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point because, uh, like even for this, we’ve been doing this show over three, three years now. And if I don’t do my checklist, I will forget something like, Oh, I forgot to send off that email. Oh, I forgot to create the graphics for the, you know, it’s a mad scramble. So. I’ve just found that I rely on those two is because it just helps me not freak out or have that wait before you go to bed on Thursday night.

[00:40:24] Like, did I get everything done for the Friday show? I was like, Oh, oh my gosh. You know? So that’s, that’s the thing. So. I want to know, Tanya, how, how much, like, on your, your overall strategy, how much time do you allocate for repurposing versus creating the content? Like, cause I think a lot of creators go like, ah, I got to go to the next thing.

[00:40:45] Like I got to get that YouTube video out. I got to do this and they don’t spend enough time squeezing all the juice they can out of the content they created. So I’d love to know how much time you kind of allocate for that repurposing process.

[00:40:57] Tanya Smith: So I actually time block just about everything. Um, and by time blocking, I mean there are reserved spaces on my calendar. If you saw my Google Calendar, you probably would freak out or geek out. Depending on who you are, the type of person you are, whatever your personality is. But when I’m done on Thursday night, I do like to chill because I’m an introvert.

[00:41:19] Again, I, it’s a dream. I’m exhausted. I get done talking. So I used to try to hurry up and do everything right then, honestly. Um, but what I’ve done is decided to give myself a little cushion and some grace. So. I might do the first two steps of my checklist after, immediately after, but most of the time I’m waiting until Friday, and on Friday I’m going to spend that time, and as far as repurposing, um, the time frame that it takes, I could probably get it.

[00:41:50] Everything I need to do done in about, I don’t know, a couple hours because, because of the checklist, because I’m simply importing that link over into some of the platforms that I’m using to help me to do the things. And then some of it is on autopilot because, again, Zapier or an integration tool like Integrately, Pably, you know, there’s a bunch of those out there now, will simply recognize that, oh, she did that.

[00:42:17] YouTube video. So now let me get to work. So on Friday, I can go in and take a look at, Oh, the stuff is already in there and cast magic. Great. It’s been transcribed. I just need to add the speaker thing. Okay. Done in a few minutes. So I think I’ve actually gotten more proficient over time only because I’ve done this so often, but now that I’m adding a new team member in, by the way, I’ve given her, I said, Fridays, I’m going to give you the content.

[00:42:43] Um, You got, of course, Saturday and Sunday off, but I need my information. I need what I’m asking of you by Tuesday morning, because she’s helping me to put together a newsletter based on what we talked about in the events that took place the week before. So, building in a team member or someone else to be part of the process, you have to recognize they’re not going to move the way you do, and you need to give some grace and time for that too.

[00:43:06] But all of that’s accounted for in my calendar.

[00:43:11] Jeff Sieh: of team members. Uh, we got a question from my, my team member, my daughter. Uh, she goes, how much time, uh, do you spend on setting automation and checklists versus going through and working on the checklist items? She has a tendency to stay in the planning and organization zone and not actually do the work.

[00:43:28] So I guess we’re going to have to have a team meeting. But, um, uh, but what would you tell Abby? Like, how, how, how do you, you know, because some people love to create processes. And that’s like, that’s Abby’s jam. She loves, she’s the one who got me into Notion because she loves it. So balancing that, how do you, how do you do that?

[00:43:45] Tanya Smith: here’s the thing. Um, I think everyone has to operate in their gift, right? So that’s one thing. I recognize that my husband and I are two different people. My husband is a big processor. If anybody knows anything about Myers Briggs and all of that, I used to be a Myers Briggs facilitator. So he’s somebody who likes to build radio control cars, like he does that kind of stuff.

[00:44:08] But after it’s done, he’s like, oh, okay, the process is over. For me, I like getting to the outcome. I like to see the outcome, dwell in the outcome, like, wow, this was great, right? But he sits in the space of the process itself. So one of the things, Abby, if the whole idea of the organizing and planning is a joy for you.

[00:44:31] Let that be your joy. Um, at the same time, you have to realize that there’s a certain point where you got to cut that off. And once you’ve gotten to a space where you know your recurring processes that you’re doing, they’re set. Like this workflow is good. You have to just make a decision to go. Like you got to go.

[00:44:51] So I know for instance, with me,

[00:44:54] Conor Brown: Hope

[00:44:58] Tanya Smith: And so giving yourself deadlines And having those time blocks may be helpful. So if you say, Hey, I’m going to play in this process for two days. And then by Monday, I’m going to get this information out.

[00:45:10] It’s going to be on social media. It’s going to be published on the blog by X date and time. If you can give yourself those deadlines, I think it might help.

[00:45:20] Jeff Sieh: Those are great. That’s a great piece of advice. Um, by the way, I want to do a really shout out to our friends over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Uh, they are doing the Leap right now and I’ll be speaking, Katie actually, actually asked, he goes, what time is your presentation?

[00:45:35] Katie, I am at 3 PM central. I think you’re in the UK, so I don’t have any idea what time that is over there for you, but probably be late or really early. Look at Connor trying to do math on live TV. uh, but, uh, so yeah, but you can find out more about them. It’s amazing. Like, like we said, Tanya spoke yesterday.

[00:45:53] It’s a really great, uh, Leslie Samuel speaking today too. I mean, so many great speakers. Leap. ecamm. com. Make sure you get their replay pass to check out all of that. So the time we got left, Conor, I think we have time for a couple more questions. Let’s jump into like, we already did a little bit systems and processes.

[00:46:09] So let’s talk about that for live video.

[00:46:11] Conor Brown: Absolutely. We know we love using Ecamm to stream, but where are we streaming to? And Gary asks an awesome question here. Uh, he says, what are your go to platforms to stream? I know Facebook has made it more difficult to stream into groups. Yep, it’s always changing constantly. So what are the, your jam when it comes to the platforms?

[00:46:33] Where are you seeing the most success and where do you always go, uh, live from?

[00:46:39] Tanya Smith: I always go live, um, in YouTube. Now, but when I first started out, Facebook was my space and it was because it was so much easier to be able to get into Facebook and do live streaming. I’m just being honest. It was easier. I already had community there. I wasn’t having to build from scratch and hope and pray that people would come over to my channel.

[00:47:04] All of that, right? Because it would pop up in the feed and get them notified. But you’re right. The Facebook groups thing has probably put a kink in the armor for some people. Um, I, believe it or not, right before they made the announcement about groups, uh, or the API being deprecated for third party platforms to go into groups, I, I shut down my group and part of the reason was because I was finding that it was a lot more effort and work and time to put content in that space than I was getting results from.

[00:47:37] And so I was finding more success on my Facebook profile with professional mode turned on. than I did in my group or my page. So Facebook, personal profile, I still do do, uh, do lives on my Facebook page just because I want the content there. But engagement in the, the personal profile with professional mode turned on so I can see metrics and I can schedule.

[00:48:04] And then of course YouTube. YouTube is a big one for me now because I am actively building the channel there. I’m wanting to monetize. I recognize the search. Possibilities and how it is much more likely to be found and discovered by people who may not know anything about me because it’s on Facebook.

[00:48:24] LinkedIn is my third, um, and only because I have not with intention and purpose, um, mapped out what my strategy will and should be on LinkedIn, but I see potential in LinkedIn because there’s not a lot of people yet that are really affect. And I think that that particular audience is a solid business, ready to buy audience.

[00:48:50] So that will be something I’m going to be working on.

[00:48:54] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, we find that LinkedIn is great because we multistream right over there. And we were also in the cool thing about Ecamm is you can pull in the comments from everywhere, which, uh, yeah. So, and, and Gary says, excellent response. I want to take Fred, Fred, I see your question. I want to take that, but I want to, one more system and processes kind of question is, um, how do you, like, what systems do you have in place, uh, for technical problems?

[00:49:17] Because I know a lot of people when they first start, They get one little glitch and they, and it’s like, Oh my gosh, I can’t handle the pressure. I was there. I think we’ve all been there. Um, what are your processes for like when, when things happen, uh, during a live stream?

[00:49:30] Tanya Smith: Oh my God. I’ve had everything happen. I was on a live and I was talking for a good, I don’t know, five or more minutes on mute, like no microphone at all. And I was having a good old time. I probably said my best stuff I’ve ever said in that five minutes. Um, so one of the things that I do from a technical standpoint, I’ve learned from every mistake and you’re going to learn too.

[00:49:54] So you have to make the mistakes. And you’ll learn, okay? Um, I’ll give you three things. One is I always have either my iPad or my iPhone up so I can kind of see what’s happening at the same time as other people, like the way that other people are seeing it, I want to see that too. Um, I also pay attention to the comments because people in your chat will give you, they’ll tell you, hey we can’t hear you.

[00:50:19] Um, another thing and this is something that my husband actually was. farsighted about. And I was like, why are you buying me this for Christmas? But it was a backup power, um, bank. It was a backup power bank because we do have storms here. Jeff mentioned earlier, we’re having storms rolling through here in North Texas.

[00:50:40] And, um, one of the things that can be devastating is if you’re in the middle of a stream and it’s the best stream ever again, and your power goes out and it doesn’t come back. So having a power bank, something that will allow me to. Continue running, even though everything in the house might be out, but it’s, it’s one that sits on the floor down there for me that is connected to my key, um, stuff like my Mac computer, the internet, all that.

[00:51:09] A third thing as a backup is to really get to know the platform that you’re using. So if you’re using Ecamm Live, if you’re using StreamYard, if you’re using Restream, you need to know where the block buttons are. You need to know where How to turn off comments, how not to show things on screen. You need to get familiar and comfortable with the tools you’re using so that when something, an emergency arises, you can quickly act. One of the things I’ll tell you, I did have

[00:51:42] Conor Brown: for joining

[00:51:46] Tanya Smith: used to do this because I was dumb, didn’t know any better. I’m not going to say dumb. I’m going to say I didn’t know. I was ignorant. Um, I was showcasing, streamed, uh, the comments in real time. I was using Restream at the time and I was showcasing them and some trolls popped in there, y’all, and it got ugly.

[00:52:05] It got bad real quick and it threw me for a second and I thought, oh, from now on I will not do that. So you’ll learn from the mistakes and you’ll make adjustments and you’ll put things in place, but you have to, you need to take action on what you learned. And don’t think it won’t happen again because it probably will.

[00:52:25] Jeff Sieh: Right. So, um, uh, Jim says like, yeah, he has, he bought a, a UPS to keep things rolling after a power outage during a live stream where he was the host. If it’s, if some, if it’s somebody sneezes hard on my block, it seems like I lose power. You know, it’s just, it really does. So I have a backup, but then the internet will go out.

[00:52:42] So you just have to deal with it. I only had it come out one time a couple of weeks ago. We had geese on like outside of my office, which has never happened before, but they’re honking. And I’m like, how is it? So you’re going to have things that come up. Like I put it to my Instagram story. It was like, and you’re like, Gary says, yeah, I got once, um, Uh, booted from a live webinar at the moment when Q& A was, uh, kicking off.

[00:53:01] Guests were left, you know, puzzled. Yeah, uh, before we go, uh, kind of the, our final thing, this is a great question from, uh, our friend Mr. Fred over on YouTube. He goes, do you ever revisit content that was created a while ago and repurpose it again? What drives that decision?

[00:53:20] Tanya Smith: Oh, that’s a really good question, too. All of these great questions. You have the best

[00:53:24] Jeff Sieh: They are,

[00:53:25] Tanya Smith: thank you all for being here. Okay. So yeah, I do. I revisit content now. There’s a couple of things that are criteria for me because I’ve been actually in the process of doing this, um, recently, Fred, and one of the things that I look for is, is that content still timely?

[00:53:43] Like, does it make sense right now? Because if I’m repurposing it and it’s something that was relevant in the 90s and now that doesn’t matter anymore because of, you know, we’re in modern times, then I’m probably not going to use that too. Is it quality? Is it the quality that I want? Because I mean, my quality has improved over the years.

[00:54:05] So do I want to put something out there and repurpose content that looks really good?

[00:54:11] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:54:13] Conor Brown: We also

[00:54:14] Tanya Smith: I can redo it. I can re record that same message point

[00:54:19] Conor Brown: um, I

[00:54:21] Tanya Smith: and do it in real time. And it’s still, if it’s relevant and it’s timely for today, then yeah, that can be, that’s a form of repurposing too is that you’re re recording. Constructing the webinar that you did. You’re reconstructing a point that you made on another video.

[00:54:35] So, yeah, I mean, I’m looking for it to make sure that it is still relevant, timely, and that it is of the quality that I want to represent me today in this moment.

[00:54:46] Jeff Sieh: Great, great advice. Uh, we got a couple more, um, yeah, and Fred goes, that is a really helpful answer, Tanya. Um, And, uh, I wanted to, so Gary remembers, uh, that guy, I was in a hotel, I was traveling and I, there’s somebody jackhammering, I was looking on the 50th floor, but they were out there taking off like a staircase, like a cement staircase.

[00:55:06] I had to mute the entire time. Luckily I had a co host and like Connor and was able to get through it. But yeah, that was, that was an adventure. There’s always something. And Chris says there’s a goose honk removal plug in coming from Audifonic. Yeah. So that is great. And this is very true. I want to do say this.

[00:55:23] He goes, we are the best audience because this is the best show on the interwebs. Thank

[00:55:27] Tanya Smith: There you go.

[00:55:29] Jeff Sieh: Um, yes. Uh, such a, such a great, um, So, so much good comments here. I’m still reading them because they’re amazing. Um, and Jim says, one trick that works is to tell your audience that they’re the best audience.

[00:55:42] At least they were for me. That’s true. Um, so, anyway, folks, I want to give Tanya enough time to, um, tell what she’s got going on. I know she’s going to recover from her speaking yesterday and being on another show. Uh, podcast, everything. That you do online.

[00:56:03] Tanya Smith: Yeah, the best place and thank you, Jeff. The best place is to go to StreamLikeABoss. tv. If you go to that channel or not channel that website, um, I have recently upgraded and revamped the entire site so that it can be more, um, effective. So if you go there, you’ll find information about all the programs that we offer.

[00:56:26] I do something called Stream Bosses Academy, which is. Just my heart. It’s a community of people who are not only learning about live stream marketing, cause I know that is our thing. That’s our jam, but also learning about how to leverage different systems to be more proficient and productive, not just in your video marketing, but in your business overall, we do coworking days.

[00:56:50] We spend time, um, Troubleshooting. There’s all kinds of things that we do in that space. So feel free to check out the website there and it will give you access to my different YouTube channels. Um, well, my YouTube channel, as well as my different podcasts that I’m doing right now. And I will be communicating something out about the podcast within the next week.

[00:57:12] So if you’re not on my list, when you go to this page, you’ll actually find it. I see an opportunity to sign up for my list. There’s a resources page too that has a lot of free stuff. If you’re into free, um, and a few of my webinars are actually in there for free too. So I think that’s the best space. I’m on YouTube at Tanya Smith, also known as Stream Like a Boss TV with Tanya Smith.

[00:57:33] So look me up there. Thank you.

[00:57:35] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And, and, uh, a friend, James Hicks says that, uh, Tanya is the, but it’s the truth.

[00:57:43] Tanya Smith: Ah,

[00:57:43] Jeff Sieh: uh, that is awesome. So thank you for, uh, stopping by over on YouTube. And, um,

[00:57:49] Tanya Smith: Hicks?

[00:57:50] Jeff Sieh: yeah, so, um, Connor Brown, where can people find the unsinkable Connor Brown?

[00:57:55] Conor Brown: can find me over at WDWopinion. com and across the socials at WDWopinion. Awesome, awesome show today. Everyone, be sure to go and, uh, bother Jeff during his break. His live stream coming up at 4 p. m. Eastern. Is it standard time now or just

[00:58:16] Jeff Sieh: don’t, I don’t even

[00:58:17] Conor Brown: p.

[00:58:17] Jeff Sieh: but, and also, Connor is, like, it’s vacation time coming up, so make sure you guys go check out his, uh, travel planning, all the stuff he’s got going on there, because he knows, uh, especially Orlando, but cruising, he’s always gone. I mean, he’s

[00:58:30] Tanya Smith: What?

[00:58:31] Jeff Sieh: fun. I know, he’s amazing.

[00:58:33] www. opinion. com. Go check him out. And also don’t forget the new toolbox that you guys can check out that I have just set up, jeffsieh. com forage slash toolbox. Um, I’d love for you guys to let me know what you think. Kick the tires if I, and see if you can break it. No, don’t. Please don’t. Please don’t do it.

[00:58:49] Uh, because I know people will try like that’s, I can just see Chris Stone like smiling and rubbing his hands together. Um, anyway, thank you guys so much for watching the show. We’ll see you guys next week. Bye everybody.

Taking the ‘OH NO!’ Out of SEO with Lauren Gaggioli

🔔 Join us on Social Media News Live! We’re hosting Lauren Gaggioli for “Taking the ‘OH NO!’ Out of SEO.”

If you’re anything like me, thinking about SEO makes your head hurt. That’s why I’m excited to have my friend Lauren back on the show to talk about what really matters for SEO in 2024.

She’s a pro at distilling complex search optimization tactics down to easily understood concepts. That way, you’ll know EXACTLY what to focus on for your business.

We’ll even touch on how this new AI landscape will change your strategy moving forward.

This will be a great learning experience for making SEO work for you.

Enhancing SEO and User Engagement in Digital Marketing

Hey folks! Welcome back to our blog, where today we’re diving into the dynamic world of SEO with insights from one of the industry’s brightest minds, Lauren Gaggioli. As a seasoned digital marketer and SEO strategist, Lauren brings a wealth of knowledge and expertise that demystifies the complexities of search engine optimization. In this post, we’ll explore a variety of essential topics, from understanding and implementing search intent to navigating the latest SEO myths and realities. We’ll also look ahead at the future of SEO, discussing how emerging technologies like AI are set to transform our strategies and practices. I figured that whether you’re a small business owner, a solo entrepreneur, or just eager to boost your SEO expertise, there’s immense value in exploring the nuances of aligning our digital content and marketing strategies with the real needs of our audience.

The Ever-Evolving Nature of SEO

As someone who’s navigated the choppy waters of digital marketing, I can attest that search engine algorithms are like the ocean—constantly changing, sometimes unpredictable, but always rewarding for those who understand its currents. In a recent discussion, Lauren Gaggioli shed light on a crucial shift: Google’s increasing favor toward high-quality content. This isn’t just about peppering articles with keywords but crafting pieces that genuinely resonate with readers.

It’s clear that the tides are turning, where the emphasis is shifting more towards content that serves a purpose beyond just ranking well. For businesses, this means diving deeper into crafting meaningful content that genuinely addresses the needs of their audience. By doing so, we not only improve our search engine standings but also build trust and credibility—key pillars in today’s digital marketplace.

Practical SEO Advice for Businesses

Understanding Google’s Algorithm Updates

During our chat, Lauren shared some major advice: Don’t chase after every algorithm update. Instead, anchor your SEO strategy in the consistent production of quality content. This resonates deeply with me as it aligns with the principle of putting your audience first. The goal is to create content that informs, engages, and converts, irrespective of the ebbs and flows of SEO trends.

Creating SEO-friendly content doesn’t have to be a daunting task. Lauren shared that focusing on E-A-T (Expertise, Authoritativeness, Trustworthiness) principles can significantly enhance your content’s appeal to both search engines and real people. By emphasizing these elements, your content not only meets the rigorous standards set by search engines but also establishes your site as a credible source of information.

Incorporating AI in SEO

Further into our conversation, Lauren explored the emerging role of AI in SEO, highlighting how these tools can amplify our SEO efforts. As someone who’s always keen on leveraging the latest tools, I find this particularly exciting. AI can streamline complex data analysis, enhance keyword research, and optimize content strategies, allowing us more space to innovate creatively.

If you, like me, are eager to leverage AI not just in SEO but across all facets of content creation and digital marketing, be sure to check out my free course on creating better Pinterest pins using AI.

Yet, as much as AI can offer, it’s clear that the human touch is irreplaceable. The nuances of crafting stories that touch hearts and spark curiosity can’t be fully replicated by algorithms. So, while we embrace these advanced tools for their efficiency and insights, let’s not forget that at the core of our content strategy should always be our authentic human voice and genuine engagement with our audience.

Building a Sustainable SEO Strategy

Navigating the SEO landscape requires a sturdy ship and a reliable map, and that’s precisely what a sustainable SEO strategy provides. It’s not just about weathering the storm; it’s about charting a course that ensures continuous growth and visibility in the sea of digital competition.

Long-Term SEO Tactics

During our discussion, Lauren emphasized the importance of consistency in content quality. She explained that the secret sauce to sustained SEO success isn’t in quick fixes or chasing the latest trends, but in committing to quality content that serves your audience’s needs over time. For me, this means crafting content that’s not only informative but also engaging and relatable. Creating posts that people want to read, share, and revisit not only engages your audience but also signals to search engines that your site is a valuable resource.

SEO Best Practices for Small Businesses

Lauren provided some golden nuggets specifically tailored for small businesses looking to improve their SEO game. The takeaway was clear: small businesses must focus on strategies that are not overly complex but are effective and manageable. This includes understanding what your audience is searching for, optimizing your website’s user experience, and ensuring that your content is accessible and easy to navigate. For small business owners, this might mean starting with basic SEO practices like optimizing title tags, meta descriptions, and loading speeds before moving on to more advanced tactics.

Small businesses can particularly benefit from focusing on local SEO, which is often less daunting and more immediately rewarding. This involves optimizing your online presence to attract more business from relevant local searches—a crucial step for businesses that rely on local clientele.

Understanding and Implementing Search Intent in SEO

In our journey through the vast oceans of SEO, one of the most crucial navigational tools is understanding search intent. It’s not just about what keywords to target but why people use those keywords in the first place. Grasping this can dramatically shift the effectiveness of your SEO and content strategy.

The Role of Search Intent in Content Strategy

Lauren opened up about the critical role of search intent in shaping a successful content strategy.

Search intent is all about the “why” behind a user’s query in search engines. By differentiating between informational and transactional queries, you can tailor your content to match exactly what the user is seeking. Informational queries are those where the user is looking for information—think “what is SEO?” or “how to improve my website’s speed?” Here, your content should focus on providing answers and establishing your expertise.

Content Strategy for Informational Searches:

  • For informational queries, the content should be educational and rich in useful data. This might include blog posts, FAQs, tutorials, and videos. These pieces should aim to educate the reader thoroughly, providing all necessary information on the topic and establishing the website as a trustworthy source of knowledge

Transactional queries, on the other hand, indicate that the user is ready to buy or engage in a more direct way. For example, a query like “buy SEO optimization tools” requires a different approach. This is where your content should cut straight to the chase: provide product details, benefits, and a clear call-to-action.

Content Strategy for Transactional Searches:

  • For transactional queries, the content should focus on conversion. Product pages, special offers, reviews, and comparison articles are highly effective. These should provide all the details a user needs to make a purchase decision, including benefits, pricing, shipping information, and easy access to the buying process.

Enhancing User Experience Through SEO

Improving user experience (UX) is not only essential for user satisfaction but also plays a critical role in enhancing SEO effectiveness. Lauren emphasizes that a stellar UX can significantly impact a website’s search engine rankings by affecting user engagement metrics.

Best Practices for On-Page SEO and User Engagement

Lauren points out that on-page SEO elements are foundational to both user experience and SEO. Here’s how she suggests optimizing these elements:

Meta Descriptions:

  • Lauren stresses the importance of crafting meta descriptions that act as concise summaries of the page content. These descriptions should be enticing enough to encourage clicks from the search engine results page, effectively serving as an elevator pitch for each page.

Headers (H1, H2, H3, etc.):

  • According to Lauren, headers are not just structural elements but crucial guides that help users navigate content easily. Properly used headers contribute to a better understanding of the page structure by search engines and users alike, making the content more accessible and digestible.


  • Lauren advises that images should be used strategically to break up text and add a visual component that complements or enhances the content. She highlights the importance of using ALT tags that describe images accurately, aiding in image SEO and helping visually impaired users understand the image context.

Mobile Optimization and Page Speed:

  • Lauren emphasizes the critical nature of mobile optimization, noting that a mobile-friendly website is a necessity in today’s mobile-first world. She also points out that page speed is vital for keeping users engaged. Slow-loading pages can lead to increased bounce rates and lost traffic, which negatively impacts SEO.

Leveraging User Experience for Better SEO Outcomes

Lauren discusses the direct correlation between user experience and SEO rankings. She provides insights into how enhancing UX can lead to better SEO outcomes:

Focus on User Feedback:

  • Collecting and acting upon user feedback is crucial. Lauren mentions that understanding how users interact with your site and identifying pain points can lead to significant improvements in content and design, aligning better with user expectations and search engine requirements.

Analytics and User Behavior:

  • Lauren advocates the use of analytical tools to track user behavior patterns. By examining metrics such as time on site and bounce rates, webmasters can gain insights into how well their content meets user needs. These metrics inform adjustments that can enhance both UX and SEO.

Continuous Improvement:

  • Echoing a theme of ongoing optimization, Lauren underscores the importance of continually refining UX and SEO strategies based on evolving user expectations and algorithm updates. This iterative process ensures that a website remains competitive and relevant.

Advanced SEO Insights

Advanced insights into SEO provide a deeper understanding of how to effectively optimize and future-proof your online presence. Lauren provides clear guidance on navigating the complex landscape of SEO myths and future trends.

Navigating SEO Myths and Realities

During the podcast, Lauren delves into common misconceptions that can mislead even the most seasoned marketers. She emphasizes that many beliefs about SEO, such as the overemphasis on keyword stuffing or the idea that SEO is a one-time setup, are outdated and detrimental to a site’s long-term success.

Myth: More Keywords Mean Better Rankings

  • Lauren clarifies that while keywords are fundamental, their overuse can harm rather than help. Search engines now prioritize context and user intent over sheer keyword density. Content should be crafted to answer a user’s query naturally and comprehensively, not just to incorporate keywords.

Myth: SEO Is Set and Forget

  • Another myth Lauren debunks is the notion that SEO doesn’t require ongoing effort. She stresses that the digital landscape is ever-evolving, with search engine algorithms constantly updating. Continuous assessment and adaptation of your SEO strategies are crucial to maintain and improve rankings.

Future of SEO: Predictions and Preparations

Lauren discusses what the future holds for SEO, predicting that the field will continue to evolve towards even greater integration of AI and machine learning technologies. She discusses how these advancements will refine how search engines understand and prioritize content, making it crucial for SEO strategies to remain agile and informed by the latest technological developments.

Increased Use of AI

  • Lauren predicts that AI will play a larger role in how search algorithms parse and rank content. This means businesses will need to start incorporating AI into their SEO strategies, using tools that can optimize content not just for keywords but for relevance and user engagement.

Greater Emphasis on User Experience

  • With technological advancements, user experience will become even more integral to SEO. Lauren suggests that factors like page load speed, mobile optimization, and overall site usability will weigh even heavier in search rankings. Preparing for these changes means continuously improving the technical aspects of your sites, such as using AMP pages, improving server response times, and ensuring that navigation is intuitive.


As we wrap up our deep dive into the ever-evolving world of SEO, it’s clear that staying ahead in digital marketing requires more than just following trends—it demands a proactive approach to learning and adaptation. Throughout our discussion with Lauren Gaggioli, we’ve uncovered the crucial importance of understanding search intent, debunked common SEO myths, and explored the promising future of SEO shaped by advances in AI and user experience enhancements.

Remember, SEO is not just about algorithms and keywords; it’s about connecting with your audience in the most effective and meaningful ways. As we’ve learned from Lauren, the focus should always be on creating quality content that resonates with your audience, using SEO best practices as a tool to enhance visibility and engagement, not as the end goal.

Additional Resources

As we wrap up our discussion on enhancing your SEO and embracing AI, why not take your skills further? I highly recommend checking out Lauren’s free SEO DIY audit to refine your strategy and her comprehensive Organic Marketing Ecosystem course for deeper insights.

Also, while we’re on the topic of maximizing your SEO efforts, here’s a shameless plug to another great conversation we had with the brilliant Lauren Gaggioli. Check out our insightful discussion here. By the way, this isn’t just me being nostalgic; linking to our own content like this is a classic SEO move—boosting our internal linking strategy and keeping you, the reader, within our wonderful content ecosystem longer. Clever, right?

Thank you for joining us today. Remember, the key to success in digital marketing is continuous learning and adapting. Keep exploring new ways to enhance your SEO and user engagement, and here’s to your success in the digital world!


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks! Welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. So excited that you guys are here. This is going to be a fun one. I’ve got, I’ve got to get out of the way. Holy guacamole! It’s Lauren Gaggioli. She is here, uh, and we’ve got the unsinkable Connor Brown here, um, as well. So this is going to be a fun show.

[00:00:17] These are all my friends. I like these kind of shows that we, we’ve hung out together, uh, offline. We need to do another escape room. So, um, that’s the thing we need to do because that was A ton of fun last time. We got our friends already showing up. We got Gary Stockton, uh, saying good morning, you friendly faces.

[00:00:36] Oh, from, uh, Costa Mesa. That’s your, that’s not where you’re usually from, is

[00:00:41] Lauren Gaggioli: neck of the woods.

[00:00:42] Conor Brown: Gary’s usually from, uh, Huntington Beach.

[00:00:45] Jeff Sieh: he must be, uh, you know, stretching his legs a little bit and going around. So we were talking about a little bit about, like, we got to do at the beginning of Podfest, we got there early. I got to go through with Lou and Lauren and a bunch of other people.

[00:00:57] Uh, an escape room and I’d never done one before and it was one of the funnest things we’ve ever done. So, let us know in the comments if you would like to be trapped in an escape room with Connor Brown. Uh, let me know if that’s something that you would like to do. Cause I think we gotta do, it’s gotta be a tradition now that we go back to like Momentum and PodFest in Florida and go to some of those, um, escape rooms.

[00:01:17] Oh, Gary says he is in the office. So sorry, Gary. Well, maybe it’s a good thing. But, uh, thank you for, for tuning in. We’ve got, uh, Chris Stone here. Good morning, you beautiful robots of planet earth. Yes, we’re going to be talking about robots today a little bit. So this is going to be a fun show. Connor Brown.

[00:01:35] How are you doing today, my friend?

[00:01:36] Conor Brown: I’m doing great and, uh, happy Taylor Swift new album day to all who celebrate to Tortured Poets Department. My god, the woman can so she surprised everyone. I mean, we knew this, this was coming, a regular album, but she surprised everyone, said, no, you know what? It’s actually a double album. So there’s like 36 songs.

[00:01:58] So I don’t know. I’ll let you know next week when I

[00:02:00] Jeff Sieh: you stay up too late? Did you stay up too late and listen to them all?

[00:02:03] Conor Brown: Now, I, I am not that diehard of a Swifty. I, uh, did wake up though, and first thing I, I pressed play on.

[00:02:10] Jeff Sieh: Oh, very cool. So, uh, before we get started a little house cleaning stuff, I want to tell you guys, I have just, uh, Jeff Sieh has launched a new free resource, um, you can find it at jeffsieh. com forward slash pinai. It’s about using, cause you know guys, I touch, I cut my teeth on Pinterest. Well, this is a free course where I show you how to use AI to create images for Pinterest.

[00:02:30] Now you could use the techniques for any kind of social network or creating images for anything, but I kind of focused on Pinterest for this one. So if you’d like to get access to that free tool, jeffsieh. com forward slash pinai. And, Lauren Gaggioli has, uh, I want to make sure you guys, if you guys get, kind of get a rumbly in your tummy and towards the end and you’re wanting like some lunch, I want to make sure you guys get this, uh, she has a free audit, so you can find it at jeffsieh.

[00:02:54] com forward slash diyaudit. Lauren, tell them what it is, uh, when they sign up for this.

[00:02:59] Lauren Gaggioli: Yeah. It’s a free three part mini course. It is a website audit. So we’re going to be talking about SEO. And if we’re talking about SEO and organic marketing and you’re like, what, or I haven’t looked at my stats lately, you know, SEO is the kind of thing you don’t want to be too granular on. You don’t want to watch it every day, but you want to look at those trends over time.

[00:03:22] So if it’s been a minute since you checked in and took the temperature of your website, this is a great way to do it. Totally free resource. Hop on in and I can help you out.

[00:03:30] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And last but not least, of course, the unsinkable Connor Brown. Uh, he, he is amazing at travel planning. He does awesome. He’s got all the inside knowledge. If you need help with any of your vacation, because it’s getting to be vacation time. Listen, we all would rather be on vacation right now, but you could find him at www.

[00:03:46] opinion. com. Connor, you got anything to say that’s cool about your, uh, your services and offering? What’s coming up in the vacation travel world?

[00:03:54] Conor Brown: much. I mean, think about it, you know, you’re planning summer or you’re planning your holiday getaways. Come on over. I do Disney World, Disneyland, Universal. Cruises of all sorts. Um, definitely stop on by, shoot me a message. We can get you planned on, on all sorts of stuff. And I’m excited for both of those resources you guys shared as well.

[00:04:13] Jeff, I’ll be honest when you first put up yours, I thought it said jeffsieh. com slash panini and I got

[00:04:19] Jeff Sieh: Very hungry. That was, that’s, that’s a marketer in me. Yeah, see, I do it on purpose. Um,

[00:04:24] Conor Brown: equally excited for the Pinterest AI. I think that’s really, really cool.

[00:04:27] Jeff Sieh: So, look at this, uh, Lindsey says, and I hope, Lindsey, I hope you’re doing better. I know you had, oh my gosh, it was, it was, uh, I’m hoping you’re feeling a lot better, but she goes, Lauren’s three part mini course is awesome. I agree. Lauren is super smart. I put in my email that, like, she’s a glutton for punishment because she likes SEO stuff,

[00:04:44] Lauren Gaggioli: I know.

[00:04:45] Jeff Sieh: It’s like going to the dentist for me, but she loves it and super smart. She does a great job with it. So, once again, make sure you go and check that out at the jeffsieh. com forward slash DIY audit. All right. So, we got all that.

[00:04:57] Lauren Gaggioli: sorry, is it safe to assume that Connor is having a good hair day from Facebook user? Are we assuming that’s Lou?

[00:05:03] Conor Brown: I was gonna assume that that’s my mother, but okay.

[00:05:06] Jeff Sieh: yeah, Lou, I mean, Lou,

[00:05:08] Lauren Gaggioli: does he never show up as himself?

[00:05:10] Jeff Sieh: know I probably it’s, it’s something internet wide. He’s done something to upset Facebook. So I’m going to go on

[00:05:17] Lauren Gaggioli: Oh, Amy. Okay, it’s Amy.

[00:05:18] Jeff Sieh: Okay, we, thank you, Amy, for stopping in. By the way, Amy’s got a great podcast, too. You need to check it out. Uh, Amy, make sure you drop your link in to your museum podcast, because I think it’s fascinating, so make sure you do that.

[00:05:28] So I’m gonna hit go on the podcast machine, and we will get started. Hello, folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:05:37] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:05:44] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever wondered how to navigate the complexities of SEO without feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you’re interested in discovering practical strategies that can boost your online visibility. Or maybe You’re eager to transform your understanding of SEO into a tool that really benefits your business. If you’ve struggled to make sense of SEO or even where to start, then today’s show is just for you.

[00:06:06] We’re excited to welcome a guest who has harnessed the power of organic SEO to elevate businesses. Lauren Gaggioli is going to be sharing her experiences, her, uh, her expertise and her top tips for mastering SEO in the ever evolving online environment. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live.

[00:06:27] Lauren, how are you doing today?

[00:06:28] Lauren Gaggioli: I am great. Thank you so much for having me, Jeff. It’s always fun to spend time with you and Connor. I just wish we had tacos.

[00:06:35] Jeff Sieh: I know, exactly, no kidding. Connor, you want to?

[00:06:38] Conor Brown: this is a close second behind tacos, but you know what? It’s not even a close second, but we are so excited to have you here as always, Lauren. And if you don’t know who Lauren is, you should, because Lauren Gaggioli is a digital entrepreneur who loves building online businesses and supporting her fellow solopreneurs as they share their gifts with the world.

[00:06:57] She’s a big believer in intentional living, and Lauren created her online course about purpose, The big why Life to help folks from all walks of life create their personal mission statement and support healthy habits to support living a life of purpose. Lauren is an organic content marketing expert, having leveraged SEO and organic marketing to grow and sell her first business hire scores, test prep, and online, a CT and SAT prep.

[00:07:27] Company. Wish I had that when I was going through it. She now,

[00:07:29] Jeff Sieh: That’s

[00:07:30] Lauren Gaggioli: a lot.

[00:07:31] Conor Brown: she now supports her fellow online entrepreneurs with organic strategy, consulting services, the organic marketing ecosystem course, and through her virtual mastermind for online marketing. Entrepreneurs, when Lauren’s not working, you can find her running her next run Disney half marathon.

[00:07:51] I’m signed up for the half marathon in January as well, Lauren. So, mm hmm. Yeah, I’ll be watching it. Or channeling her serious Molly Weasley vibes, knitting up a new sweater, puttering in her garden, homebrewing beer with her husband, which we love, or making a delicious mess of the kitchen with her kids outside their home, just outside of Seattle.

[00:08:14] Lauren, so much awesome stuff going on. We’re so happy to have you. Welcome to the show. very

[00:08:29] Jeff Sieh: 15 off your first purchase. But one of the things when Connor was talking about knitting, that you love to do knitting, uh, my friend Katie Fox, who is the marketing manager over there.

[00:08:36] She’s big time into it. I need to get to you guys together and see what kind of craziness you guys knit up. Um, maybe, I don’t know,

[00:08:43] Lauren Gaggioli: think she’s a crocheter.

[00:08:45] Jeff Sieh: Okay. There are so we’ll see that’s how much I know about the the sport of knitting. Um,

[00:08:50] Lauren Gaggioli: I do both, and I’m sure she would,

[00:08:51] Jeff Sieh: she’s she’s awesome Some of the stuff she’s posted so but but ecammecamm.

[00:08:55] com forward slash jeff Make sure you guys check them out. They sponsor the show and make this all possible But we’re gonna jump right into taking the oh no out of seo because um, it’s not my favorite thing to do But it is super important to And one of the things that we want to talk about, and I want you guys to ask your questions because I want to make the show all about you.

[00:09:14] If you struggle with SEO or have questions or you see these changes coming, drop them in wherever you’re watching from. We’ll try to bring those into the show today. So we’re going to just start right off of, um, you know, all these changes to SEO, Loren. It’s often seen like as this moving target. So how do you recommend small business keep up with all these changes and practices that are, that I’ve even seen already in 2024?

[00:09:39] Lauren Gaggioli: gonna go real counterculture here and say Don’t, don’t keep your finger on the pulse of every little iterative change. The general arc of the Google algorithm updates is that it is bending towards elevating the Quality content. So if you can deliver quality content over time in a consistent fashion that speaks to humans first and bots second, then you’re able to sort of weave those threads together and elevate your presence in the search results.

[00:10:19] So. This is one of those things, you know, with social algorithm changes. I think we SEO are similar but slightly different. And that’s actually not the case, right? The, the social algorithms, you know, thinking about like when TikTok or Instagram went to Reels and like it was because they were looking at TikTok taking market share, right?

[00:10:40] That is something that you fundamentally have to shift how you create your content. However, the tweaks that happen for SEO are much more minute for the small players in the space. And the truth is, we don’t want a deluge of traffic, most of us, right? Especially if we’re service providers. We just need the right traffic at the right time to start facilitating a conversation.

[00:11:06] So let’s go I want to step back from this sense of like we have to keep our finger on the pulse because we’re going to drop out the bottom of the algorithm and instead say let’s focus on creating quality content, period. And there are some parameters and guidelines that can help us, but overall that is what we should be focused on.

[00:11:28] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

[00:11:28] Lauren Gaggioli: sorry if you can hear my little guy,

[00:11:30] Jeff Sieh: No, you’re fine.

[00:11:31] Lauren Gaggioli: up a log in the hallway. I don’t know where my husband is, but I’m in here with you guys, so not my job.

[00:11:40] Conor Brown: I love that. I love that. It’s kind of, that’s a great like phrase to, I guess you could say live by in the SEO world, creating for humans first and for the bots second. Um, human first content, bot second. Don’t little worry about the little minute things that are always changing. But you know, Lauren, I think we do still have to kind of take into consideration AI and how it is changing SEO, whether we can use it for good or bad or just what it’s going to do.

[00:12:11] So. With AI evolving rapidly, especially within the SEO space, you know, what are some specific strategies you think businesses can adopt just to ensure that their SEO efforts, you know, you put so much time and effort into it, actually are effective?

[00:12:26] Lauren Gaggioli: Yeah, so I, you know, everything I’ve read about Geo is great. Still kind of leaning us towards quality content. The primary difference is kind of focusing on what Google already wants, which is that E E A T. It’s your expertise, your experience, your authoritativeness and trustworthiness. I always mess up the acronym.

[00:12:54] So it’s those four things. The one thing that I am seeing really being called out and of course, You know, I have a friend who wrote this once. He said, the internet’s kind of like layers of paint on layers of paint on layers of paint and they’re all kind of the same. Uh, when you read about geo right now, we don’t know much.

[00:13:12] It’s all predictive. But what a lot of people are saying, and who knows if they’re just copying each other, is that citations are going to be really important. Well, if you’re following SEO best practices, even for geo, like, SEO best practices say you should have outbound links on your website. And the reason you should have outbound links is because it actually contributes to your authoritativeness because Google’s already benchmarking you for that.

[00:13:39] So this is about really taking that long view, right? And focusing on how you contribute to the conversation. You know, I think we have to zoom back even further and zoom out and go, oh, Why am I creating content? What’s the point? Well, it’s to share what you think. And so if you’re just chucking, you know, a prompt into chat GPT, copying, pasting onto your site, that’s not very helpful.

[00:14:11] Now, if you have, let’s say, processing problems or learning difficulties, and that makes it easier for you to structure your argument, and then off of the scaffolding that AI provides, you then. Custom tailor it to what it is you wish to say. Great, right? Use AI in those ways that it can be your assistant, but if you make it your content creator, you will sound like everybody else on the internet, and you will have no credibility or authoritativeness.

[00:14:43] Jeff Sieh: So when you, when we say geo, you’re talking about, uh, generated, generative optimization, right? Is that what, okay. Just so people maybe who don’t know what that is like me. Um, so, and then, but I, but I also, cause we had Robin diamond on a couple weeks ago and she mentioned geo, which is that, you know, I think it’s generated generative engine optimization.

[00:15:05] I’m assuming that’s the same thing.

[00:15:07] Lauren Gaggioli: I think so, yeah, I think, yeah, basically the, the future of SEO as AlleyOOP by ai.

[00:15:14] Jeff Sieh: right? So, and then there’s the Google search generative experience that I’ve heard as well. So, all these things. My question is, you mentioned doing great content and I know a lot of people are worried like, okay, if I put all this great content out there, um, and the search engine, I mean, the, the, like the chat GPTs or whatever, use that and all they do is they put a little citation at the end of it that links back to my site.

[00:15:41] Am I? Losing traffic, wasn’t this the same kind of thing that when they would do those little snippets when they would search results that were people just find the answer and they didn’t really have to go to your site. So is there anything people who want to get content can do? I mean, other than just create great content.

[00:15:57] Lauren Gaggioli: Yeah. And this is, this is gonna be the tricky bit, right? Um, because what, it’s kind of like if you go to the deli and like get the full, like. Piece of prosciutto, like the, the full

[00:16:10] Jeff Sieh: Oh yeah.

[00:16:11] Lauren Gaggioli: leg of, I, I know I have to bring it back to

[00:16:13] Jeff Sieh: Stop. Stop.

[00:16:15] Lauren Gaggioli: like if that’s, that’s kind of what SEO is right now, right? SEO is like saying, do you want prosciutto?

[00:16:22] Do you wanna, you know, Turkey breast, do you want this, that, and the other? What geo is gonna do is kind of. All right. Um, I’m going to, I’m going to quickly, um, give you a sampler, right? They’re going to like do the, do the charcuterie board and you can have a little bit of each and they’re going to put it all into this like context, um, for you. I personally don’t love that. Like, I like to have control. And so I kind of, and I think we also have to know that, like, this is a long way down the line because 8. 5 billion searches per day on Google and A. I. To generate, um, the results. So, just from like, sheer, like, rack space for servers, like, you kind of go, Oh, crud. Like, that’s, that, this is gonna be, this is gonna be a long tail process. Like, this is gonna take a long time for us to, to sort of ramp up into this. Um, when it comes to what we’re creating, I think humans always want to hear from humans.

[00:17:22] And this is where I think a lot of SEOs get it wrong. That when they’re doing keyword research, they’re looking at volumes and traffic and they want to like drive these like massive swaths of people to your website. I think what’s going to happen is that if you are putting interesting information out into the world, unique takes on what you’re creating,

[00:17:41] Conor Brown: time.

[00:17:43] Lauren Gaggioli: You still need to make sure that you are answering questions that people are asking, and that’s where the keyword research comes into play.

[00:17:48] But that connective point of like, I have something counter to say, I have something slightly different to say, if it’s intriguing enough, I think people will click through. And I’m not saying to be intriguing for intriguing’s sake, I’m saying use your beautiful brain That is such a gift and your creativity like that’s why most of us want to create content.

[00:18:12] Yes, we want to be found, but we want to be found for what we’re saying. And that aspect is is how you convey it what you say. Yes, it needs to connect to the whole ecosystem of the internet in a way that helps you get elevated where you are quoting other resources and that sort of thing, but can you provide something new and different? Such that you intrigue people so much that they click through

[00:18:38] Jeff Sieh: So,

[00:18:39] Lauren Gaggioli: that’s always the name of the game.

[00:18:40] Jeff Sieh: so I have a follow up. First of all, I have some great comments like, uh, Chris Stone says, Yes, it’s sandwich instant engine optimization. So that, I would sign up for that, uh, AI. And then Dustin, who is the AI master with Magi says, That’s true. Think about the compute power needed to generate AI search summaries for every query.

[00:18:58] It kind of makes your mind explode there. One of the things, because you mentioned, okay, There’s some hacks and you want to, I know that like recipe bloggers did this, like, instead of putting the recipe, especially like for on Pinterest, they would write like a story, like, and it’s even a meme now, like people are like, okay, just get me the sneaking recipe.

[00:19:17] Yeah,

[00:19:17] Conor Brown: that jump to recipe button quicker when I get on that

[00:19:20] Jeff Sieh: but a lot of places don’t have that now. I mean, they, they’ve taken out because they want people to stay on the site for a little bit. Um, and so do you think it’s going to be more and more of people trying to find hacks around? Because they did that because they didn’t want, you know, Google just taking all their stuff and they want you to stay on the site and go to the bottom and at least see some of their ads that they’re getting paid to put on there.

[00:19:40] Um, are we gonna have to come up with like hacks and workarounds for generative AI kind of in that kind of vein?

[00:19:47] Lauren Gaggioli: Um, so I’m seeing what Dustin’s putting down here. I think Recipe bloggers ruin the internet for recipes. Yes, true.

[00:19:58] Jeff Sieh: It did.

[00:19:59] Lauren Gaggioli: But yeah, emphasis on rich content. So images, video, he’s saying audio too. Yeah, that idea of like when people come to connect with you, how can they connect with you deeper? Like it’s important to have words on the page. You know, recipe bloggers, they’re, they’re not just doing it for getting found or for keeping people on the page.

[00:20:21] They’re doing it for getting found. Like Google reads really well and it takes fewer resources for him to read really well. Um, Which is why, you know, putting in closed captions and things like that is really important for video and transcripts for audio, like, all these things that we know, like, it actually is feeding Google, um, really well.

[00:20:38] And so, we want to make sure that our, our content is structured in a way that is helpful and useful to the end user. Um, I had this thought around the helpful content update. I think it was in, uh, October of last year that, um, our friend of ours, Paul Gouder, he was like, a lot of these kinds of sites are seeing that they’re getting dinged.

[00:21:05] And I think it was like movie reviews and it was, it was food blogs that he saw a trend just in a small population, it wasn’t like massive. And I think that there is a quick hack that a lot of people who are in our space can leverage Which is, if you want a recipe, like I know the recipes that I use, I search the same gingerbread recipe every dang year at Christmas, I know who I’m looking for, have I signed up for her email list?

[00:21:32] No, I don’t want her emails. I just want the dang recipe and this year I got smart and I wrote it down so now I don’t even have to go there. Which, you know, sorry, but like that’s, that’s what it is to put free information out on the internet. Um. But, for me, whenever somebody comes to my website, I always provide them with the next right step.

[00:21:51] And the next right step is to get a free resource, like the DIY Audit, and that pushes people to a thank you page. So, A single user who comes through organic search conceivably could hit two pages in a very short amount of time on my website. Then, with the email that delivers it, they come back to my website to get the free resource in a gated page, a hidden page.

[00:22:16] So I get three visits from a new user, in a matter of minutes. And by creating this cycle, I’m pulling people back into my own personal ecosystem. Google’s watching the behavior and going, Oh, what I sent this person to this website for, that person delivered such that the stranger I connected is now engaging with three different pieces of content on her site.

[00:22:41] And so I think we have to be thinking more like this because that helpful content update. It was people who like go to your website, get the information and leave. Those people, when that was the entire exchange, especially on an ad based monetization platform, they were getting dinged and they saw their income going down.

[00:23:03] But I think for a lot of creators, it’s a completely different play. We want to create community. We want to, you know, Stay connected. And we have valuable things to offer. And so being aware of that and being aware of what Google’s paying attention to, and then how we can position ourselves to create that, you know, circle of life, if you will, Disney wise, um, that is what is going to keep us in the search engine results page, keep us relevant.

[00:23:29] And I think that will hold true all the way through any sort of iteration that AI can throw at us. Because at the end of the day, it’s human to human. Even if we’re leveraging data to make that connection.

[00:23:42] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

[00:23:42] Conor Brown: Dustin, yeah, Dustin puts it perfectly, I think, in this comment. He says, so, in other words, the foundational elements of great content haven’t changed, they’ve just become more important. Absolutely, right? Creating great content for people to consume. And I guess, you know, Lauren, all this stuff is kind of like, well, maybe it’s going to change, right?

[00:24:03] Maybe it’s going to be this, maybe it’s going to be that. Our consistent foundational strategies still seem to be the most important sort of thing. Get the data from the keyword research, create great content and put them into your own. Organic marketing ecosystem in a way, right? Right.

[00:24:21] Lauren Gaggioli: Yeah.

[00:24:22] Conor Brown: There are some prevailing myths out there, whether it’s of what’s coming down the, the, the pike or what is here right now.

[00:24:29] So are there any myths, uh, that you think are just need to be debunked for, for business owners, for entrepreneurs right now in 2024 as they think through their SEO strategy? Yeah.

[00:24:56] Lauren Gaggioli: Remember is that the quality, I can say it again and again, but quality content leads. And also there will be changes down the line.

[00:25:06] That’s just, that’s the nature of literally everything, right?

[00:25:10] Jeff Sieh: Mm hmm.

[00:25:11] Lauren Gaggioli: And so if change is coming, it’s easier to pivot if you’re already in motion. So don’t wait, because it’s, it’s like the laundry, unfortunately. It’s never done. Like, it’s never going to be done. And so is it better to do a single load right now, knowing that there’s 10 behind it, possibly?

[00:25:31] There’s a pile over there. We can’t tell. That’s, I’m pulling this from life. Um, so it’s, it’s one of those things that you, you really have to be aware of. And if it’s people saying that this, this isn’t the thing, like AI is here and, and therefore SEO is out, like that just doesn’t even compute. So I think that’s, that’s really important to remember. So, um, I see Alexis saying, how can I find to write content, rich, uh, consistent, rich content on my site? So here’s the thing. A LinkedIn post has a life cycle of what? 30. Six hours, something like that, like maybe. Um, so what I would say is, and I will, I will preface this by saying this is how I built my first company, which I sold for six figures in 2021. I had 16, 000 new users coming to my website each and every month for two years running.

[00:26:32] And those two years where it was at its peak were years where I worked a four hour work week. I had a baby and I was not working, but I was still churning new users. and making money off of my passive income offerings. So Alexis, can you carve out three hours in the next month to write a single piece of really amazing content and publish it?

[00:26:55] Because if you can publish one keyword research post on your website that is going to help people for years to come and you can start to churn this cycle and turn the wheel and integrate it with other content on your site. Can you do that? Because the truth is. It can feed you for years if you position it correctly.

[00:27:18] And so I’d say if you don’t have time to update LinkedIn posts, whatever time you were going to allocate to LinkedIn, go ahead and just create a great blog post and post it on your site. Um, go do a guest interview, get a backlink from somebody to elevate your site’s domain authority. I just did a guest post for a friend.

[00:27:38] Who has a ridiculous domain authority of like 70 something because she is a website designer and every site she’s designed has backlinks. Um, she, I, let me do a guest post on her site about which website builder is best. My domain authority jumped 9 points. I went from, or 8, I went from a 10 to an 18. On a fairly new site, one that I haven’t been developing and, and creating backlinks to for very long, a single post.

[00:28:07] Is that worth it? Yeah. It’s going to help grow my authority, which even in the AI age is going to matter. Like all of the old ways of doing things, everything old is new again. Like it’s all the same. It’s all the same. Still relevant and you don’t have to do everything. I’m very much a Pareto principle SEO gal.

[00:28:28] Do the 20 percent that you feel is manageable so that you can reap 80 percent of the rewards, but it takes some education so you can discern which of those paths is right for you as a content creator.

[00:28:41] Jeff Sieh: So one of the things when you’re talking about the LinkedIn thing, I think a lot of times we get the cart before the horse. We think about, we’ve got to put all this social content out there and that kind of bogs us down in the brain. When really, like for this, I make one piece of content and then I use social to put it out there, not the other way around.

[00:28:57] Is, I think

[00:28:58] Lauren Gaggioli: Yes, all roads lead to your website, even if it messes with the social algorithms, like there’s creative ways you can do it.

[00:29:04] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I don’t do anything without a link. I don’t care if it busts my algorithm on Facebook or whatever. I want people back, or to my sponsors, or to whatever, you know, and I’ll just create great content. So we’ve got some great comments. So Jim says, Do you think web society has an appetite for long form written content anymore?

[00:29:26] Lauren Gaggioli: so I think that’s interesting. I like the way, Jim, I like the way you position this, web society.

[00:29:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:29:34] Lauren Gaggioli: have you been on BookTok?

[00:29:36] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:29:36] Lauren Gaggioli: Like, I think, whatever the Instagram one is, what, like, Bookstagram, that’s what it is. You know, like, I think people are still reading, and I think If you are a writer, then your community is readers.

[00:29:51] If you are a video creator, then your, your community are people who are consuming on YouTube. I don’t think the, I, I think There’s no way that we can be everywhere all at once like we have to pick and I think that’s the hardest part Because we feel like we should be able to do it all and it’s like no pick what resonates with you I love the written word I also love video like so I am careful about how I create that and I am actually doing a wider I have a very specific kind of path of, of content creation where if I create a video, I have someone write my SEO copywriter, write the words off of the video I created.

[00:30:34] And then sometimes, particularly in the purpose vertical, I’m kind of like Joan Didion, I don’t know what I think until I write it. So I have to explore it. In that particular way. So I have, you look at my website and you’re like, she does, she has long form written content. Actually, I create it differently based on the domain because how I communicate in different domains is different.

[00:30:56] And Jeff and I may be working on a podcast as well. So I think it’s one of those things where you have to be aware of how you prefer to communicate and then find the community that resonates with that. and Abbey, booktalksupremacy. I love it.

[00:31:14] Jeff Sieh: She’s a

[00:31:14] Lauren Gaggioli: We have

[00:31:15] Jeff Sieh: fan.

[00:31:16] Lauren Gaggioli: ACOTAR conversation coming, Abbey. I feel it.

[00:31:18] Jeff Sieh: She’s already told me she’s getting those books. So,

[00:31:21] Lauren Gaggioli: Love it.

[00:31:22] Jeff Sieh: she went on that she went on the, uh, the, um, the escape room with us as well. So that was a lot of fun. So, okay, Connor, you had a question.

[00:31:30] Conor Brown: book talk, bookstagram, Facebook, you know, we’re all talking books all across.

[00:31:36] Lauren Gaggioli: all about reading.

[00:31:38] Conor Brown: Chris has a great myth that he wants busted or maybe not busted. I don’t know. Mythbusters, uh, social media marketing, uh, edition. How important is it for podcasters to have full transcripts available on their sites and the best place for them to be available, uh, for those who want slash need them.

[00:31:57] So there’s always kind of this. Question of do you post the entire transcript right? Is anyone actually going to read the entire transcript on your site? Are you just doing it for SEO purposes? Are you hiding it under kind of an accordion sort of thing? Lauren, any, any ideas or thoughts around that?

[00:32:13] Lauren Gaggioli: So, I, I think if you’re doing videos, you should have closed captions. And I think for accessibility, and especially, again, the ease of doing this now with the, Um, I don’t think there’s a reason to not have them, but I actually don’t think it’s as helpful for SEO. For podcasts, oh, I love them. I love them so much, but they’re not great SEO tools.

[00:32:40] I don’t think. Um, now with video and embedding video and that sort of thing, if you’re being really careful about how you’re naming them, I think the best play for podcasters to get found in SEO is to have the guest’s name. And also, you can be a, a real, uh, mensch to your guests by giving them really quality backlinks using anchor text and pointing to deeper pages on their website. As opposed to, find Lauren, At Lauren, you say Lauren has an online mastermind. You go to my online mastermind page, you say Online Mastermind for Entrepreneurs.

[00:33:23] You highlight that and link it straight to that page. And this is great when you have affiliate relationships. You can do that to courses where you use that anchor text to point to those deeper pages. There’s more meaningful pages on that person’s website. So. I would say for podcasters, that is probably the better play from an SEO perspective, rather than the transcript.

[00:33:46] But I do think the transcript is important for accessibility.

[00:33:49] Jeff Sieh: So, Abby, take note of that, by the way, because she helps me with my, uh, stuff. So what we do for this show, so when we’re done, we take the video, embed it on the page, and then we also have the link to the podcast where they can have the play, the podcast player, but then we write an article that is based on the episode, but below that we have the full transcript.

[00:34:09] So it’s a lot, it’s a bunch of text, but I’ll, so should I not have that text on there because it doesn’t make a

[00:34:13] Lauren Gaggioli: No, I like it.

[00:34:14] Jeff Sieh: okay, okay.

[00:34:15] Lauren Gaggioli: like it because I think then you’re, yeah, Google, Google, He don’t hear so good. So

[00:34:22] Jeff Sieh: Okay, got it.

[00:34:23] Lauren Gaggioli: written, written word is, is very helpful right now. You know, like, you got to think about the, the actual like physical resources required to crawl each page, you know, and, and that sort of thing.

[00:34:34] Jeff Sieh: gotcha. Okay, we got a lot of questions that we, I’m so glad you guys are putting comments in here, but I want to give a shout out really quick to our sponsors. You can find out them at ecamm. com forward slash jeff. Use code jeff15 to save 50 percent on your first purchase. Uh, purchase. And also they have an amazing thing coming out.

[00:34:51] Yes, it is. Leap is coming. I’m going to be speaking there next week. It’s totally free. I’m going to be talking about, uh, beyond the stream, talking about how, uh, we can use AI. for creative showmanship and strategic repurposing. Not doing it for you, but there’s some really cool tools that’ll help you do it a little bit better.

[00:35:08] I’m going to be talking about that. So make sure you guys go to leap. ecamm. com. Sign up for that. Uh, our friend Paul Gowder is also going to be speaking as well. A lot of great speakers. Leap. ecamm. com. All right. So let’s jump into this second section. Uh, but let’s, let’s get some of these questions because, uh, I want to talk about intent because I think a lot of this has, To do, um, that’s kind of Lauren’s sauce, secret sauce about, um, SEO, but we’ve got some great questions.

[00:35:35] Um, the first one is, Kira says, have you noticed that Spotify now offers the transcript on podcasts as well, the same way they have for lyrics? I think it’s a great idea for access, accessibility. I know that Apple podcasts have just started doing this as well. So, once again, you want to make, check, check and make sure they’re accurate, because they never get my name right.

[00:35:54] Uh, and I bet Lauren has the same problem,

[00:35:57] Lauren Gaggioli: No, no, it’s fine. It’s fine.

[00:36:00] Jeff Sieh: and then Gary says, YouTube tells me that the video is not the primary content of the page. I include transcript and a lot of text. Is that harming my video SEO? Any recommendations on how to best embed video for SEO?

[00:36:14] Lauren Gaggioli: I think I’m a little confused by this because YouTube telling you on your website, I, I, I, I’m a little confused by the question. There is video schema markup in, uh, keyword, uh, or in SEO plugins, like on a WordPress site where you can designate a page as like video being the primary, but YouTube I don’t think would tell you that.

[00:36:38] So, um, you know, YouTube SEO is like a totally different game. Like that’s, I leverage YouTube as a video hosting service, not as a social media platform. And that’s like a keen distinction for me that like, I’m not trying to like publish the same thing all the time and then like have my shorts feed in.

[00:36:58] Like that’s a whole different strategy and I don’t, I don’t play that game. I

[00:37:02] Jeff Sieh: Search Console that’s telling him that.

[00:37:05] Conor Brown: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:14] Lauren Gaggioli: a whole different thing. So I’m probably too technical. But yeah.

[00:37:19] Jeff Sieh: yeah, yeah, that,

[00:37:20] Lauren Gaggioli: Send me a message, Gary. We’ll, we’ll talk.

[00:37:22] Jeff Sieh: Uh, and then Jim has this question, in a reverse of Chris question, how important it is to have a narrated version of a written article available for listening instead of reading? Maybe an option at the end of the written article? Mm

[00:37:36] Lauren Gaggioli: Um, I think you, I’ve seen it done. I remember, uh, I think it was Kate. Kate’s Take on John Lee Dumas uh,

[00:37:45] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:37:46] Lauren Gaggioli: website. She used to do this where she would like read the article that she had written. Um, which makes sense because John’s audience is very audio driven and they could just like chuck it into the feed if they wanted to.

[00:37:58] Um, I’m not sure it’s necessary. Um, And I think that it, uh, it depends on your audience. Like, is it an accessibility issue? Um, are there ways to make it so that for folks who have accessibility issues that they can have their reader read it to them? Just make sure you’re, you know, formatted correctly for that.

[00:38:21] Um, and I think it comes down to how much capacity do you have. Um,

[00:38:27] Jeff Sieh: I would say for repurposing, I mean, you’ve already got it written. Why not? If you can record it, release it as a podcast, point back to your website. I don’t know. That might be something. It’s, I know it’s another thing to do, Jim, but, um, I, I like to repurpose stuff. That’s me. You know that. So

[00:38:44] Lauren Gaggioli: You’re the pre purposed king.

[00:38:45] Jeff Sieh: so yeah, I want, I want to talk about this user intent because I read a lot of your articles and you have some great ones on your website about this and this ties into creating great content.

[00:38:56] But I want to ask, the first question is like, why is it so crucial for businesses to understand the intent of their website visitors in this, you know, in 2024?

[00:39:06] Conor Brown: to seeing you all

[00:39:13] Lauren Gaggioli: the, there is the search intent behind why the human typed that query into Google. So there’s four of them, but the two that I primarily focus on are informational, right? So somebody’s asking a question, like, what is search intent? And they type that into Google and I can meet that and be like, hey, let me tell you a little bit about search intent.

[00:39:38] And I can lay it all out. If at the end of that you try to sell somebody something. You, they’re gonna slam the door in your face so fast. Like, it is a first date. Don’t show up on the doorstep naked, right? Like, you need to say, hey, like, you asked this question and I had an answer for you, and I’m really glad that I was able to provide that information for you.

[00:40:03] Conor Brown: Thank you.

[00:40:04] Lauren Gaggioli: kind of wonder if, like, you’re interested in some more stuff. Do you, do you maybe want to get my free? It’s kind of like saying, you know, we just met. Can I buy you a cup of coffee? It’s a lot less creepy, right? So can you stay engaged, provide a pathway for that person to give an easy yes, and make no mistake, email addresses are a currency.

[00:40:29] So you do want to get started. Something for this exchange, but when what you offer is high value, instead of creating 53 different resources to direct people to, you can have a single one that every single SEO posts that I write ends in the same place, because I know that if you’re curious about SEO, you also are curious about driving traffic to your website and you can’t know where to point that.

[00:40:56] You have to have that foundation to leap off from. So it’s a very easy pivot for me. It’s always the same pivot. And if somebody’s coming through Google, then they don’t know that I offer it on every other page in, on my website about SEO. And by the way, it’s different for if you come in through a purpose channel, if you’re curious about core values exercises, hey, guess what?

[00:41:17] That ends at a different place. So I’m like. I have two disparate threads and I’m able to, to create that free, free engagement and get an email address for my heavy lift of two free offerings on my website. So um, that is if somebody’s coming in for informational queries. Now sometimes people are coming in for transactional queries and nothing drives me more nuts than saying organic marketing course and, or, you know.

[00:41:49] Coaching, online business coaching, and not seeing the price on the page. Like, that is not showing up naked, right? Transactional queries are the Tinder of online search intent, right? You have swiped right, like we know what’s going down. So you want to be Giving everything you can to smooth the path to yes, right?

[00:42:14] So you need to dispel any myths on that transactional page because that person typed in that query with a credit card in hand. Don’t make them go through all the hoops. Just let them pay you. And so that’s the coolest part about understanding search intent is that suddenly you’re like, oh, my sales pages can rank in search?

[00:42:34] Yeah, they can, but don’t make your informational queries sales pages. Don’t make your blog post a sales page. Your blog post is a completely different channel. The transactional queries need to go to a different, uh, uh, curate, connect in a different way. And so it’s really important when you’re doing keyword, this is, this all goes back to the humanization of this.

[00:42:54] Like when you’re doing keyword research, yes, you’re looking at numbers on a page, but they represent humans on the other side of the screen. Who are typing things in and want help. And so how do you help? And you on your end of managing your website can be really clear about how you’re going to facilitate the next step.

[00:43:16] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. And Connor, did you pick up that part about not showing up on the front door naked?

[00:43:21] Lauren Gaggioli: That

[00:43:21] Jeff Sieh: I know you can’t come back to Texas anymore.

[00:43:23] Conor Brown: to say thank you so much for putting the, in dating metaphors because it explains a lot. Not only about

[00:43:29] Lauren Gaggioli: You learned a lot today, huh?

[00:43:31] Conor Brown: my SBO past, but also maybe my, my dating past. So thank you for that. Always learning something new every day. I

[00:43:40] Lauren Gaggioli: growth mindset.

[00:43:41] Conor Brown: agree with mindset. So you got, you know. Informational, transactional, you know, there is that transitional, which is kind of more awkward sometimes, and it’s not for everyone, it doesn’t fit the mold, but the, the offering something based on the traffic, how do you go about just adjusting that, right?

[00:44:01] Like, how can you see the traffic coming in is, is much more informational? Um, is it more just around those, those search queries that, that people are, are searching for? And then how can you kind of create? And if you’re looking for a website that is going to be able to provide you with content or modify your current offerings even just based solely on, on the intent of the traffic.

[00:44:19] Like I think of maybe you have a website about boats, right? And if the search query you’re going for is, what is a boat? You’re probably at the end not going to be selling boats, right? But

[00:44:31] Lauren Gaggioli: Would you like to buy one?

[00:44:32] Conor Brown: to apply, But, I have a great boat to do you on it, but if the long tail keyword is more how to buy a boat, maybe that’s kind of getting more towards that, that kind of content.

[00:44:45] So, so modifying your, your current offerings based, based on the intent, how would you go about that?

[00:44:51] Lauren Gaggioli: So your example around how to buy a boat, that’s, um, a commercial intent. And so commercial sort of lies in between informational and transactional and how you leverage it as a website. so much for joining me today and I will see you in the next one. Bye. If you are in the market for buying a boat, we would love to support you.

[00:45:27] And of course, this all depends on like what your business model is and that sort of thing. Now, if you actually sell boats, then maybe this is the kind of information that is more transactional for you. Um, so maybe a free offer isn’t the right offer. I think it really, it all comes down to What do you want to do with it?

[00:45:47] So like, again, I’ll bring up Paul. Um, he is doing some interesting posts around, uh, email marketing, but we did some that are reviews for, for products he uses. So if somebody types in ConvertKit review, right, they, they’re in the market. They want to know if it’s the right fit. So Paul, as a user, can write a very helpful informational content and say, This is what I use, this is how I use it, and by the way, here’s my affiliate link.

[00:46:18] Right? And so he, he is writing an informational post and actually potentially making money off of that. So it’s the kind of thing that how you wield these things is really dependent on your business model and how you serve and how you choose. To position your informational posts, your sales pages, but it all comes down to doing keyword research with the end user in mind.

[00:46:47] A great question to ask is, if somebody typed this into Google, do they have a credit card in their hand? Then, like, do Yes, no. Okay, if yes, this is a sales page. If no, or, or something I like have an affiliate relationship off of. If no, then I am pure information. I am just helping them take the next right step, and in doing so, pivoting them to be oriented towards the right thing.

[00:47:11] Opting in for whatever my freebie is in that domain. So what I like to think about what I teach in my course is you pick a vertical. So I’ve mentioned, so thus far I have two, right? I have purpose, live with purpose, organic marketing. I also have one about digital entrepreneurship. So I have three working on my website.

[00:47:33] Each of them leads. to a paid offering, at least one single paid offering.

[00:47:39] Conor Brown: PPAPPX2 PPPX4

[00:47:43] Lauren Gaggioli: those different verticals and relating that content to each other through internal linking. And to make this clear to Google, what I’m doing, I don’t cross the streams. Make like Ghostbusters, and I keep them very isolated, but I’m very clear as to whether I’m pointing to a free offering or a paid offering.

[00:48:04] And having this structure in your head, doing keyword research through this lens, gives you a sense of like, oh, I know how every, every time I sit down to write, I’m not reinventing the wheel. I know exactly what I’m driving to.

[00:48:20] Jeff Sieh: So, on that, I’m, you know, we talked about, okay, we, the intent for sales, right? Like, you have your credit card ready. And then you have ones like, well, a lot of us do, podcasters, content creators, um, YouTubers, whatever. And we’re posting our episodes or whatever. And so once a visitor lands on your website, what are the most effective strategies for converting them into leads or customers?

[00:48:44] Are pop ups and tripwires, are they still effective? Do you have any other strategies that, you know, are there new methods emerging for that? Like, what’s the best way other, is it to give them a freebie and get them on your list? Is that what you suggest? Is it still the same thing?

[00:48:59] Lauren Gaggioli: If it’s a podcast, then yes, like on your podcast, in your show notes, you know, if you mention something like. No doubt I will mention Organic Marketing Ecosystem, my SEO course. Like that is going to come up just naturally. So you can like list that in your resources. So if people are curious about it, they can go there.

[00:49:18] But if somebody came for your podcast specifically, then what I like to do is I have a footer. And an exit intent pop up, and they go to the same place. Because I think the other thing that happens is we have too many calls to action. We confuse the heck out of our listeners, our users. Sometimes, and I think too, like, we have to think about the fact that for a podcast, if you are optimizing for, say, an interview based podcast, you’re optimizing for your guest, that person ended up on your website looking for somebody else.

[00:49:52] You have to be respectful. of that person’s journey. But also, if somebody’s a long time listener and they wanted a resource, then that also has to live on that page. So I think there’s a difference between including resources and making content very helpful and accessible to people so that if they go, I heard that thing and I wanted to go back to that episode that that one gal said that she has this thing, I need to be able to click through.

[00:50:20] Yes. But, how do you welcome cold traffic to your website? Do not show up naked, which is where I don’t like tripwires, on something like that, right? Um, so, for example, I would say, you know, tripwire, I have a, um, I offer, uh, uh, a Group coaching, Mastermind, uh, sessions a couple of times a week, um, I cap it at four people.

[00:50:47] It’s like a drop in situation. You can get your first session for just 25. And so I have a discount code that’s very clearly labeled. That probably would count as a tripwire on that page, but somebody is coming with a search intent. Everybody knows a Mastermind’s a paid offering unless you’re doing peer to peer.

[00:51:05] So if somebody’s searching online Mastermind. for entrepreneurs and they land on my page, then they know that that’s a transactional query. Like, I’m not just going to be giving that away for free, but I can give them an easier way to say yes. And so like a one time kind of gifted thing to be like, Hey, are we like a good fit?

[00:51:25] Um, 25 bucks for group coaching, like. Find that somewhere else. You probably won’t. Um, so it’s a good deal, but it is only offered on that page. Like I wouldn’t put that out there on an informational query page.

[00:51:40] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. Gotcha.

[00:51:42] Conor Brown: what about that, that kind of balance of, you know, we want to show up in the SERPs and the search results. We, we want it to. And optimized, but you know, if, if we want to kind of bring this person into our community, we have to make sure that they have a good experience on the page. Right. And it’s kind of this balance, like perfect example.

[00:52:02] I mean, this is more from like an AdSense perspective, but I hate when I search something, I land on a webpage and it’s like a video playing at the top, an ad in the middle, a pop up ad from below. And I have like. inch that I can scroll and I’m reading like one line at a time. I’m like, I’m out of

[00:52:20] Jeff Sieh: Done. Yeah.

[00:52:22] Conor Brown: giving you my time of day ever again.

[00:52:25] When it comes to the SEO perspective of that, we want to hit all the check marks and, and check all the boxes for what Google wants. But Lauren, how do we balance that? How do we balance those SEO efforts with still creating a great user on page experience so they’ll actually want to engage with our content going forward?

[00:52:46] Lauren Gaggioli: So this is where I feel like not getting too zoomed in on this is what works for SEO and this is what’s going to make me money. Like zooming back out and going on page SEO best practices. All of those are your best friends. So things like using headers, well, it breaks up wall of text for your user. And it also speaks to Google’s bots if you’re positioning it right with the keyword research you’ve done.

[00:53:13] So, and that’s it. It can be your best friend. And actually bringing this back to like Gen AI stuff, this is something that they’re saying. It has to be, um, scannable, right? We will, this is how, how we read. Even if we’re readers, we’re not sitting there reading every single word. And so numbered lists and having, you know, rich, rich content in there, images and video that people opt to turn on.

[00:53:38] Uh, you know, all of those things, like think about what annoys you. And then don’t include that, but also look at what the SEO best practices are and go, Oh, how can I leverage this in two ways? How can I hold both threads at the same time? And that human and bot intersection, you can do that easily, and it’s not that hard.

[00:54:03] It actually makes your content a little bit better. I know Jim, who was on here earlier, was a bit resistant to this when we started working together. Um, I don’t know if he’s still here, but, uh, you know, he was like, I, the on page SEO feels like it’s going to get in the way of my creative process. And so maybe you write creatively and open endedly to begin with, and then you layer the framework over, or if you have executive function issues, lay out the structure, and then fill in the gaps, or you, you know, use AI to help you create the structure, and then put your own voice into it, like, you can, you can Your creative process can be whatever it needs to be, but if you are writing something that is solely for your soul and you have zero SEO, you know, juice going on and you’re not bringing new people in, then why are you writing it?

[00:54:53] If it’s just for yourself, then it’s a journal.

[00:54:56] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:54:56] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, Jim says he’s working on it. So yeah, thanks, Jim.

[00:55:00] Lauren Gaggioli: doing so great. You’re doing so great.

[00:55:02] Jeff Sieh: This time has slowed by, but I want to, I want to have one more question kind of in enhancing connections, as you talked about this, and once again, go to Lauren’s blog, she’s got some great stuff on there, but one of the things that you said is that you mentioned traffic does not equate to connection, so can you share some strategies in turning those casual visitor, visitors who are just coming maybe for that informational content to engaged community members, because I know that’s your intent.

[00:55:28] And a lot of people just think traffic, traffic, traffic, but, but I’m not making any sales or I’m not growing my list or, so what do you say about that?

[00:55:36] Lauren Gaggioli: This really goes back to that search intent. You are building out an ecosystem on your own. little website, right? And 96. 5 percent of websites are getting no traffic from organic search. So like, if that’s you, don’t feel bad. It’s just a matter of time before you turn on the spigot. But you have to have that nice and shored up so that it’s very clear to Google what you do, to the human user who lands on those deeper pages.

[00:56:05] This is the other thing you have to remember. If search is working for you, people are not coming through the front door. They’re not coming to your homepage that was beautifully curated and designed and lovely. They’re coming to that blog post that you slammed up and forgot to put a call to action on.

[00:56:21] So they’re coming in through the windows. You’ve got to be prepared for people to crawl in through the windows. And the way that you do that is by thinking about each individual piece as though that is someone’s first introduction to you, keeping in mind why they are there if they came through organic search.

[00:56:38] They had a question, they had a. A question about something you help with and they need your help. Give them transformation. Don’t gate transformation. Give them little sips from the hose and then say, there’s a lot more here. I would love to share it with you. Here’s a freebie in exchange for your email address.

[00:56:59] And do it all above board, you know, don’t be slimy, scammy, like don’t send them one resource and then be like, I taught you nothing. I gave you nothing. Now, bye for me. Right? Like. You want to nurture and always make your offers with an open hand. You know, don’t. If they’re ready to buy, they’re ready to buy.

[00:57:20] And if they’re not, they’re not. And great, if they stay on your email list, the whole thing will come back around. So, deliver a lot of great value. Help them answer the question that they are asking without making them work for it. Like, really make it easy for them. People want, they want help pushing the easy button.

[00:57:40] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Well, I, once again, we’re just out of time, but I wanted to,

[00:57:46] Conor Brown: don’t

[00:57:47] Jeff Sieh: Amy says, ah, love that picture. That’s a great help. I think she’s thinking about the picture you just said about coming in the window, not Connor on the front porch

[00:57:53] Conor Brown: that

[00:57:54] Jeff Sieh: I’m, I’m pretty sure that was the one

[00:57:56] Conor Brown: uh, that picture of people coming in through my window is terrifying to me. And then saying, how can I help you? How, what can I do to help you? Thank you for coming through

[00:58:06] Lauren Gaggioli: You can have a shotgun in hand, but you know,

[00:58:08] Conor Brown: Okay, I’m ready.

[00:58:09] exactly. And so, uh, so Abby liked, uh, she goes, uh, ooh, don’t gate information. So, yeah, a lot of great takeaways. Uh, once again, make sure you guys go look at Lauren’s website and also her, uh, DIY audit that you can find. I have, this is a short link for me. It’s jeffsieh. com forward slash DIY audit.

[00:58:28] If you click on that, it’ll go right to her site and you can, uh, sign up for that free thing. Uh, don’t forget, I also have a free course, um, that you can go check out at jeffsieh. com forward slash pin AI. Uh, it’s all about creating, uh, images with AI that you can use for all sorts of networks, but it’s kind of focused on Pinterest for this one.

[00:58:45] Uh, go make sure you guys go check that out. And as always, we thank our sponsors, Ecamm, ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Make sure you go check that out. And also Leap is coming up, so leap. ecamm. com. That is next. Oh, week. I think mine’s on Friday. I think Paul’s is on Friday too, but there’s a bunch of great speakers.

[00:59:01] So go to leap. ecamm. com. Paul, uh, Connor Brown, that naked image is burned in my brain and I just, Connor Brown, where can we find out more about you and where you live where people can show up at your front door?

[00:59:16] Well, we’ll talk offline about why that naked image makes you think of Paul, but um, you can go You can go to www. opinion. com or follow me at WDW opinion across the social medias

[00:59:30] Jeff Sieh: Lauren, what about you? What you got going on? Tell us where everyone can find you and, uh, what’s your favorite blog post that you’ve written lately?

[00:59:37] Conor Brown: on

[00:59:39] Lauren Gaggioli: and SEO one was really fun. I really liked that.

[00:59:42] Conor Brown: twitter.

[00:59:44] Lauren Gaggioli: in mindset growth, I also wrote one recently about the one thing most core values exercises are missing, um, so if you’re, if you’re like a mindset junkie, then that one might be for you. Um, but yeah, laurengadjulia. com, everything lives there, uh, and yeah, come say hi.

[01:00:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and if you’re listening on the podcast, Gadgioli is spelled G A G G I O L I. Make sure you go to LaurenGadgioli. com and check out all her stuff. And with that, thank you guys so much for watching. We had so much great comments. Jim, Gary, Amy, Abby, all the folks who asked some questions. Dustin is always showing up.

[01:00:21] And thank you guys so much. We hope that we answered your questions. If you have some more, make sure to drop them in the comments. We’ll try to get those after the show and when people are watching the replay. But with that, Thank you guys so much. We’ll see you next time. Bye, everybody.

How To Become A Professional Podcaster with Jim Collison

🤓 Time to get your nerd on with Jim Collison!

We’re thrilled to have Jim Collison with us, sharing his journey to becoming a pro podcaster.

From leading the charge at Gallup podcasts, Jim’s path offers a fascinating look into what it takes for podcasting success. We’ll uncover some of his secrets behind creating an engaging podcast, the evolution of his shows like “Home Gadget Geeks,” and his perspective on utilizing your strengths in podcasting and beyond.

If you’re a podcaster or thinking about starting your own podcast, this is the episode for you.


How to Use Personal Strengths to Power Up Your Podcasting Game

Introduction: Meet the Podcasting Pro

Hello, everyone. I’m Jeff Sieh, your friendly neighborhood-talking beard. In today’s post, we’re diving deep into how leveraging your CliftonStrengths can transform your approach to podcasting. We had the pleasure of hosting Jim Collison, a veteran in the realm of podcasting and personal development, who shared invaluable insights on the subject.

Jim, a podcasting veteran and the CliftonStrengths Community Manager at Gallup, is not just a host of several influential podcasts. He’s a master of optimizing and personalizing the podcasting experience, bringing a wealth of knowledge that’s beneficial for both seasoned pros and newbies. 

Leveraging CliftonStrengths in Podcasting

For those unfamiliar, Gallups CliftonStrengths is an assessment designed to identify your top talents. It measures 34 different talent themes, which are organized into categories. But it doesn’t stop there—it also shows you how to sharpen them so you can boost your productivity and engagement. By getting to know your CliftonStrengths, you can tweak your podcasting style to play to your strengths, making your podcasting journey more effective and a lot more fun.

Because I know everyone is probably dying to to know, here are my, Jim and Connors’s top 5 Clifton strengths: 

Jim:  Arranger | WOO | Maximizer | Communication | Activator. 

Jeff: Ideation | Belief | Maximizer | Responsibility | Adaptability.

Conor: Input |  Connectedness |  Learner | Achiever | Intellection. 

“Knowing your strengths allows you to play to them,” Jim pointed out during our discussion. By aligning your podcasting role with your CliftonStrengths, you can operate more efficiently and enjoyably. As a practical example, Jim uses his ‘Woo’ (Winning Others Over) and ‘Maximizer’ strengths to make his podcasts more engaging and compelling. He shared, “It’s an influencing, moving tool. Podcasting is a lot like that… I like to move people. I like to influence them and have them do things.” This strategic alignment of strengths with his podcasting role allows Jim to excel and keep his content fresh and dynamic.

But strengths come in many flavors. While Jim has the gift of communication and a knack for engagement, he candidly admits that detailed review shows are not his forte. That’s the beauty of CliftonStrengths – it’s not about what you’re not; it’s about embracing what you are and channeling that into your podcasting persona. Through the lens of CliftonStrengths, Jim sees podcasting as a mosaic of skills and styles, where each host or creator has a unique part to play. Whether you’re the master interviewer or the detail-oriented reviewer, there’s room for your strengths to shine. 

So, how can you apply this to your podcast? Jim suggests that once you understand where your talents lie, you can tailor your role within the podcast to areas where you naturally excel, whether that’s conducting interviews, crafting engaging narratives, or managing the technical aspects of production.Jim also stresses the importance of playing to your team’s strengths. When everyone’s best skills are matched with the right roles, it not only boosts team effectiveness but also elevates your podcast’s impact.

Building a Strong Podcasting Team Using Your Strengths

Understanding and leveraging individual strengths within a podcasting team can completely revamp production dynamics. I remember my own reservations about flying solo on the podcasting stage. The pressure of a monologue show? No, thank you. That’s exactly why I roped in Conor as my co-host so that we can riff off each other. This approach resonates strongly with what Jim discussed about the power of podcasting teams and how tapping into each person’s unique strengths can lead to a more captivating show.

Jim also offered some insightful tips on effective teamwork, introducing the practical concept of a Team Grid. It’s a straightforward visual chart that organizes team members on one side and their strengths or themes on the other. This tool provides a clear snapshot of everyone’s skills, highlighting both similarities and differences, which helps in planning how to best collaborate during the podcasting process. It’s perfect for initiating discussions on utilizing everyone’s talents optimally and ensuring the team is cohesive and well-supported, which is crucial for creating a successful podcast. The Team Grid isn’t just about celebrating each other’s strengths; it’s about strategizing around them. Much like chessboard pieces, thoughtful placement of team members can turn a good podcast into a great one.

Navigating Team Differences

Differences within a team can be as beneficial as common strengths. Take Jim Collison and Dave Jackson, for example. Their different podcasting styles could easily clash, but instead, they complement each other beautifully. By clearly identifying and discussing their unique skills, they can understand and appreciate how their differences contribute to their success. This mutual understanding helps them avoid potential conflicts and ensures their podcast is rewarding for both.

For more great podcasting insights, check out our episode with Dave, where he shares his own expert tips here.

Jim also highlights the risks of letting conflicts fester within a podcast team, which can lead to a dangerous cycle of self-sabotage. He recommends using the Team Grid as a communication tool to prevent this. It helps facilitate open discussions about everyone’s roles, needs, and strengths. By proactively addressing these issues and openly discussing each member’s strengths as Jim and Dave do, teams can keep their podcast on track and prevent disagreements from escalating.

Strategies for Solo Podcasters

Solo podcasting can be a gratifying, albeit a challenging, endeavor. As Jim insightfully points out, managing a podcast on your own requires a keen understanding of your strengths and weaknesses. His advice is particularly practical for those navigating the podcasting world alone.

1. Inventory Your Podcasting Tasks

Jim recommends starting with a detailed inventory of all podcast-related tasks, categorizing them from pre-show preparations like guest invitations to post-production duties, including editing and promotion. By rigorously assessing how well each task is performed and the enjoyment it brings, podcasters can identify strengths and weaknesses. Jim advises, “Grade yourself 1 to 5 on how good you are at it, or how much you like it,” He suggests that solo podcasters should delegate, automate, or eliminate low-priority tasks—those ranked as least competent or enjoyable (1’s and 2’s)—to streamline their workflow. 

2. Continuous Personal Development

Jim recommends further development for tasks that suit a podcaster’s strengths and interests. This might involve refining interviewing skills or improving the content layout, depending on one’s interests and CliftonStrengths assessment results. He emphasizes the importance of continuous self-improvement, seeing it as a “lifetime of discovery.” For instance, a podcaster strong in ‘Maximizer’ might focus on enhancing episode quality to leverage content fully. “How can I be a better interviewer? What can I do to set up myself so I ask great questions?” Jim asked, highlighting the importance of continuous skill advancement.

3. Dealing with Imposter Syndrome

Imposter syndrome is a common challenge among podcasters, affecting even seasoned professionals like Jim, who openly shares his struggles, especially when interviewing high-profile guests. He describes how he prepares for challenging interviews by psyching himself up to face his fears directly, suggesting that embracing nervousness can actually sharpen one’s focus and improve performance. He emphasizes the importance of utilizing recognized strengths to combat feelings of inadequacy, encouraging podcasters to remind themselves of their capabilities to overcome self-doubt. “We can come back to our strengths and say, ‘No, I’m good at these things. And I’m gonna do this,'” Jim states, promoting a mindset that turns potential hindrances into tools for personal and professional growth.

 Advice for New Podcasters

Starting a podcast can seem daunting, but Jim offers some great advice from his extensive experience: the most crucial step is simply to begin. He compares starting a podcast with applying for a job—if you never apply, you’ll never get it. The same goes for podcasting; you must take that initial step. Jim advocates for self-awareness and playing to your strengths from the outset. Find aspects of podcasting that you excel at and enjoy, as this will make it easier to maintain passion and momentum.

Jim also suggests a pragmatic approach to podcasting: start with one episode. Instead of overwhelming yourself with long-term commitments, focus on creating your first episode. If you enjoy the process, continue; if not, it’s okay to reassess. This method allows you to gradually build your podcast without the pressure of immediate, large-scale success. Remember, every great podcast started with a single episode. Dive in, experiment, and, most importantly, enjoy the journey of creating content that speaks to you and your audience.

Essential Preparation Tips for Podcasters

Once you’ve decided to take the plunge, the next step is to ensure you are well-prepared. Preparation not only eases the workflow but also significantly enhances the quality of your podcast. Here are some essential tips to consider when preparing your podcast episodes:

  • Preformed Questions: One idea is to have a list of prepared questions to guide the conversation. This is especially useful if the discussion momentarily stalls or if you need to refocus. It ensures you always have something to fall back on.
  • Utilize Internal Expertise: One idea is to tap into your network to find individuals familiar with your guest’s field or topic. Collaborate with them to craft insightful questions and consider inviting them on the show for added depth. This strategy not only enriches the discussion but also allows you to concentrate on producing and facilitating engaging conversations.
  • Systematic Approach to Questions: One option is to develop a structured approach to question preparation, such as using a case study format, which revolves around identifying a problem, discussing the solution, examining the results, and contemplating future implications.
  • Consistent Questions: You can also try maintaining a consistent questioning format across episodes, particularly when dealing with thematic content (like the CliftonStrengths podcast). This helps keep the content coherent and structured. Jim says the trick is to keep things fun and engaging by how you ask your questions!
  • Adapt and Personalize Questions: While maintaining a consistent format, tailor questions to fit the specific guest or the episode’s focus. This helps keep the content fresh and engaging for both the guest and the audience.
  • Listening and Adaptability: Emphasize active listening during the podcast to enable on-the-fly generation of follow-up questions or adjustments to the conversation based on the guest’s responses.
  • Consider Adding a Video Component: Video can significantly extend your reach, especially on platforms like YouTube. While video editing is more complex than audio and may not be for everyone, it can open up access to a larger audience if it aligns with your goals and you’re ready to tackle the challenge. Decide based on your comfort with video and the potential benefits it could bring to your podcast.

Emerging Tech Trends in Podcasting

The world of podcasting tech is always on the move, and Jim  gives us a peek into some thrilling innovations that could change how we make and enjoy podcasts. One standout trend is the use of AI, especially in areas like language translation and content summarization. Jim points out that even though translation technology has come a long way, it’s still not quite where it needs to be in terms of accuracy. His suggestion? Combine traditional translation tools with AI powerhouses like ChatGPT to clean up and enhance the translations. This approach could dramatically improve the clarity and reach of podcasts globally, making them more inclusive and accessible to a broader audience.

Jim also highlights how the internet is improving but still encounters problems in remote or less serviced areas. The good news is that emerging tech might soon smooth out these bumps, making live broadcasts sleeker and content delivery more consistent globally.

These tech trends are super exciting because they promise not only to enhance podcast quality and accessibility but also to open up fresh ways for podcasters to connect with their audiences. Keeping up with these advances means podcasters can use these nifty tools to take their content to new heights, reach more listeners, and provide richer listening experiences. It’s all about embracing the latest tech to keep bringing the best to your audience!

Turn Today’s Discussion to Tomorrow’s Strategy

In this episode of “Social Media News Live,” Jim Collison really breaks it down for all the podcasters out there, from beginners to those who’ve been in the game for a while. He dives into how crucial it is to use tools like CliftonStrengths to understand and harness your own strengths in podcasting. Jim also sheds light on the magic of great teamwork, showing how knowing each team member’s strengths can seriously ramp up your podcast’s quality.

Looking forward, Jim delves into the transformative potential of emerging technologies such as AI in podcasting. He envisions a future where podcasts become increasingly interactive and personalized, enhancing the listener’s experience and engagement. However, he stresses the importance of maintaining authenticity and transparency in using such technologies, ensuring that the human touch that listeners value remains intact.

So, if you’re looking to spice up your podcast or just want to get a bit more strategic about how you do things, Jim’s insights from this chat are pure gold. Whether it’s playing to your strengths, teaming up the right way, or weaving in some cutting-edge tech, there’s something here to amp up every aspect of your podcasting journey.

  1. Discover Your Strengths: Uncover your unique strengths with Gallup’s CliftonStrengths Assessment. Start your journey toward personal and professional growth today! Click here to take the assessment.
  2. Tune Into Home Gadget Geeks: Join Jim Collison on the Home Gadget Geeks Podcast for the latest in home technology and gadgets. Don’t miss an episode—Check it out Here:
  3. Stay in the loop! For the latest insights and updates, head to the top of this page and hit subscribe sign up for updates. Don’t miss out on valuable content delivered straight to your inbox!


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. So excited that you’re here. This is going to be an awesome show. I’ve been wanting, we had to get some schedules aligned, but I’ve been wanting to have Jim on the show for a long time. This is fabulous. He is like, if you’re a podcaster or like thought about being a podcaster, like he has the dream job.

[00:00:20] Like, I’m All he does for a living is podcasts. So, uh, this is going to be a fascinating show. If you know of anybody who is wanting to start a podcast or has a podcast and want to kind of take it to the next level, then this is the show for them. Make sure you at mention them wherever you’re watching from, call them into the conversation.

[00:00:38] Uh, we’re going to try to bring up as many questions as we can from you guys during the show today, because we will make the show all about you. This is going to be a lot of fun. Jim, thank you so much for joining us today.

[00:00:47] Jim Collison: Yeah, Jeff, thanks for having me on. Thanks for coming on Home Gadget Geeks. It was fun to have you on as well.

[00:00:51] Jeff Sieh: that was, that was a good show. We got a nerd out about the, uh, Apple Vision Pro. Um, have you tried one? That’s a question I was going to ask you. Have you tried one yet? Cause we

[00:00:59] Jim Collison: No, you, you told me on the show, I needed to get out to the Apple store and try it out. And I just, I have not had a moment. I, I even own an Oculus 2 and I haven’t put it on since the show. I need to, it’s been a little busy, so I

[00:01:12] Jeff Sieh: I get, I get it. So, um, Connor Brown, how are you doing today, my friend? Oh,

[00:01:17] Conor Brown: a happy Master’s Week to all who celebrate. I’m

[00:01:21] Jeff Sieh: oh, look at,

[00:01:22] Conor Brown: my logo,

[00:01:23] Jeff Sieh: Are you a big golfer? I mean, I know you got some good courses there in Orlando.

[00:01:26] Conor Brown: Yeah, I, I, I love to play. I actually went to the masters in 2015. Uh, unreal experience. I love watching it and hopefully someday they can do the Vision Pro and I can walk. That’s

[00:01:38] Jeff Sieh: PGA stuff on there already is really cool, man. It really, yeah, it’s really cool. So, I want to give a shout out to some of our friends who already are stopping by. We’ve got the amazing Gary Stockton saying, good morning, you beautiful dreamers from Huntington Beach, California. Gary, thank you so much for always tuning in.

[00:01:54] I’m going to bring you down here because I don’t know why that went up there. Um, and then we’ve got, uh, Wanderlust Walking Tour saying good evening, lovely people. Thanks for tuning in there as well. I updated Ecamm and look at that, it’s getting. And then this, our, our good friend, uh, Castahead, Chris Stone, he says this is going to be a great one.

[00:02:13] He is another one of my follow, uh, fellow watchers on the show that Dave does. I mean, Dave and Jim do together on Saturdays. In fact, uh, we’ve got the amazing Dave Jackson saying, Hey. I know that guy. So, uh, this is going to be amazing. And then of course, Chris Stone goes, Hey, Dave Jackson, can we get Jim to do a dance and pour coffee on Jeff’s show today too?

[00:02:38] I did, I did steal the get your nerd on thing for my email, but I did not steal the coffee thing. So, um, this is going to be awesome. I’m going to hit go on the podcast machine and we will get started. You ready, Connor? Welcome to Social Media News Live, I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:02:55] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:03:02] Jeff Sieh: You ever caught yourself wondering what it takes to excel in the world of podcasting? Maybe you’re curious about the strategies behind creating a podcast that captivates and engages. Or maybe you’re just interested in transforming your strengths into a podcast that stands out. Now, if those thoughts have crossed your mind, then today’s episode is tailor made for you.

[00:03:21] We’re excited to host a guest who embodies the Essence of Successful Podcasting. Jim Coulson is an expert in leveraging personal strengths and technology to produce a top notch podcast. And he’s here with us today. Jim’s going to share what he’s learned, his approach to podcasting and his advice for those looking to make their mark in this dynamic field.

[00:03:39] So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Jim, thank you so much once again for joining us today.

[00:03:48] Jim Collison: Jeff, great to be here. Thanks for having me on.

[00:03:51] Conor Brown: And we are so excited to have Jim. If you don’t know who Jim is, you should. Jim is known for hosting various podcasts related to technology, community building, and personal development. He’s the host of the Gallup Called to Coach podcast, Theme Thursday, and the CliftonStrengths podcast. These podcasts focus on strength, fitness, and wellness.

[00:04:11] Based development and coaching using Gallup’s Clifton Strengths Assessment, which I have taken before. Jim is also involved in the Home Gadget Geeks podcast where he discusses various technology related topics, including gadgets, home automation, and other tech trends. Additionally, he co hosts Ask the Podcast Coach with Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting.

[00:04:34] Jim, thanks again for being with us here today.

[00:04:38] Jim Collison: Connor, that makes me sound like I’m super busy.

[00:04:40] Jeff Sieh: You are!

[00:04:42] Jim Collison: Who let that guy do all that stuff?

[00:04:44] Jeff Sieh: I know. Um, so in fact, we have a great comment from LinkedIn. Jim is one of the great podcasters that has totally inspired my style. Thank you for that comment. It’s going to be an amazing show. But before we get started, I want to do a big shout out to our folks who sponsor the show, Ecamm.

[00:05:00] You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. You can save. 15 percent on your first purchase if you use the code JEFF15, so make sure you check them out. Also, what’s happening is this amazing, uh, Leap Into Tools and Tactics. I’m going to be speaking there. It’s going to be happening, uh, in the end of this month, actually in a week or so.

[00:05:20] It’s actually April 24th to the 26th. You’re going to learn my favorite tips for content creation. A lot of great speakers are going to be there, not just me, so make sure you That you go to leap. ecamm. com and check out all the great speakers sign up. It’s going to be an amazing thing. Uh, so check them out at leap.

[00:05:37] ecamm. com. And with that, let’s jump into the show today. We’re going to, we’re just going to kick it off right away about,

[00:05:43] you know, becoming a pro podcaster because he’s so, uh, involved in CliftonStrengths. We’re going to talk about the podcast, you know, what it takes. Uh, to lean into your strengths as a podcaster.

[00:05:54] So, Jim, how do you recommend podcasters do identify their strengths and then apply them to the podcasting process?

[00:06:03] Jim Collison: Yeah, well, I mean, certainly at Gallup, we have the CliftonStrengths tool. It’s an easy way to do it. It’s a 25, 60 assessment that you can take. It’ll give you these things. These themes, mine happen to be Arranger, Woo, Maximizer, Communication, Activator. All those words, there’s 34 of those, they all mean something.

[00:06:22] They have these terms. They’re not magic in themselves. We’ve spent a bunch of time with a bunch of science, a bunch of testing to try to get that just as accurate as possible. The key to it, though, is once you have those terms, is what you do with them. You know, the, the, the self reflection, the, Self assessment, the Taking This Framework, like, as an example with podcasting, there’s one WOO, and you might be wondering what does WOO mean, right?

[00:06:48] It’s a, it stands for Winning Over Others, right? It’s a sales or influencing theme. It allows me, I like to be with people, but, but more than just being with people, I like to move people. I like to get them to go in different directions. I like to take groups of people and get them motivated to do things.

[00:07:05] It’s a influencing, moving tool. Well, Podcasting is a lot like that. Now, it’s, there are other skills required in podcasting. There’s folks who do reviews better than I do. There’s folks who do detailed content better than I do. There’s people who are more artistic than I am, right? They make different styles of podcasts.

[00:07:26] All of my, all just about everything I do is kind of a host or interview based, where I get to interview experts. I’m not really an expert in anything, maybe podcasting, uh, if you consider that. But I like to move people, right? I like to influence them and have them do things. And so I, I interview folks, I have podcasts that kind of do that.

[00:07:48] I, I don’t do review shows. I don’t do You know, I don’t do those things that require a lot of detail, because I’m not kind of a detail guy. You know, I don’t have those things. So figuring some of those things out about who you are and what you do, I think anyone, any of those themes, any sets of strengths, can be a great podcaster.

[00:08:08] The key is, can you identify them and then start working in areas where you know you’re the best? Because that success brings enjoyment and satisfaction, and it keeps you going. You know, it keeps you moving. I’ve done 604 episodes of Home Gadget Geeks. I like doing it, right? It’s 13 years in the making, and I really enjoy doing it.

[00:08:30] So, Jeff, I think to answer your question, you know, it’s, it’s, CliftonStrengths is a framework that allows us to quickly get to some of those topics, have conversations about them with, with Other people. And maybe in the case of the two of you, if you, if you had those, Connor said he knew he had his, you could have these conversations with each other and quickly begin to get into success topics without having kind of to define everything.

[00:08:59] You know, that’s kind of the, like, Oh, I’m a, I’m an activator, which means I like to start and do things quickly. Well, if you knew that, I wouldn’t have to say very much. We could begin to have a conversation that may be productive.

[00:09:10] Jeff Sieh: that’s awesome. Those are great. One of the things, and I, I I’ve taken it, but it’s been years ago. I had actually, when I first started, um, Working at Social Media Examiner doing a lot of their, their content creation. He had, that was one of the things you had to do. You had to take that and I’d have to go back and look at it.

[00:09:24] I can’t even remember. All I know is I was like the outlier from the rest of the organization. I was like the weirdo. But, um,

[00:09:31] Jim Collison: No, no weirdos. Those themes are all neutral. They don’t identify weirdos or outliers.

[00:09:37] Jeff Sieh: well, they used it to identify me as a weirdo. But anyway, um, the, one of the things is, you know, you talked about learning for podcasting, what you’re good at.

[00:09:45] And one of the things I knew from the get go is I didn’t want the pressure on myself to do a show where it’s just me talking, right? I wanted to bring in conversation and I wanted to have Connor or a co host. There where we could bounce off of each other. One, because if you’re producing a show, it’s easier.

[00:10:00] Like when I cut to Connor, I can read ahead in the comments, all that kind of stuff. And that’s just the way it evolved from my, what I considered my strength. So I think that’s really, really great when you’re trying to decide what type of show you want to do is to like, look at what you like to do and, and how you process things.

[00:10:16] So Connor, do you have a question?

[00:10:18] Conor Brown: I also think it’s super important to, like you mentioned it, talk to the people that you work with or on a podcast, your, your hosts and understand what their strengths are. Like, you know, you brought up the fact that you’re a Woo. I had a boss who was a Woo and she explained very particularly, this is what it means and this is how you can better work with me.

[00:10:37] So, Along those lines, Jim, you know, if you do have podcasters that are coming at this from a team perspective, right, maybe they’re bringing in a producer, or maybe they’re bringing in a co host, um, like Jeff does with, with this, how can they work best together in a team and ensure that each team member’s strength is used, uh, uh, correctly to put out the best episode or show that they can?

[00:11:03] Jim Collison: Yeah, well, certainly understanding those themes, I think, is, is paramount. It’s No. 1. You got to have some kind of, now, many of them are pretty self explanatory. You know, you think about, we have one called Learner. Well, that makes sense. A person who likes the process of learning things, like, so they’re constantly in learning mode.

[00:11:20] They, they, you know, they, they like to consume the content, right. Others may require a little bit more. But as you think about two individuals, maybe like you or even a team, Putting together a simple team grid, which just says, you know, the per, I have the people on the left and the themes on the right, and what do we share and what don’t we share, right?

[00:11:42] But we don’t want that to just be a conversation about differences and similarities. We want to really get to the success factors in that. I have, you know, I have this Arranger talent that, that allows me to be a conductor or do, in podcasting, to do many things at once, right, basically. Or we know as humans, we’re actually not very good multitaskers.

[00:12:04] But it allows me to have a lot of things happening at the same time and not get frustrated and keep track of most of it, right. I have an attention span that’s short, but that kind of allows me to do a whole bunch of things at the same time. So knowing that, and podcasting, you know, and Jeff, you’re in that role right now, I can produce pretty well.

[00:12:23] Like I can get in there and, well, knowing that, and then having maybe a partner who’s more strategic, someone who is really good at taking the content somewhere, making sure the content stays on track, or Making sure the content gets, gets advertised properly. It gets shared in all the right places. It actually gets out there.

[00:12:46] Some of us are good at making the content, but not good at necessarily using it all, right? That’s available. And so With a partner in a team grid, you can begin to have these conversations to say, Here, here’s some themes, here’s some successes that we have in common. And then there’s some things that we do differently.

[00:13:03] Now, usually, this is where the differently causes a problem, because we, we struggle sometimes with people that are different than us or see things differently. But if you could begin to say, What’s the strength in our differences? Like, what do you do better? I’ll use Dave Jackson as an example. Dave and I have been podcasting a long time together.

[00:13:24] There are definitely some things that Dave does better than me and some things I do better than Dave. We talk about them all the time. Those could be a point of contention in our relationship. But because we, know them, have identified them, we talk about them, then all of a sudden, it doesn’t cause, it doesn’t cause conflict.

[00:13:42] Conflict in team relationships often leads to sabotage or, or, you know, you think, Hey, we’re doing this thing together. We both want to be successful. Well, when you have conflict, what we have found in our data at Gallup is that that conflict will actually cause self sabotage. One team member will sabotage something for the other.

[00:14:01] Well, that’s not, that’s not very productive, right? We’re trying to avoid those kinds of things. So, so Connor, the team grid concept, or just getting, getting in, in a situation where you can see, Hey, here’s what I’m good at. Here’s what I’m not good at. Here is what I need. Here is what you need. Just that, just those 4 boxes, you can spend a whole, you could spend maybe the rest of your, your time together as a team talking about those things.

[00:14:28] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. Those are great things. Um, by the way, so I had given, my daughter loves the personality and all this kind of stuff. And so I guess I had given that, gave mine to her a long time ago. And she goes, by the way, dad, your top five are ideation, belief, maximizer, responsibility, and adaptability. So, but those are for a long time ago.

[00:14:47] Cause I think they kind of change over time. Maybe, I don’t know. Maybe I don’t think you’re locked in, but those

[00:14:52] Jim Collison: No, no, you’re not. You’re not locked in. Now, who you are is pretty, like, you know, our brains stay the same, but there’s some things that can change them. Trauma can change them. Growth, you know, learning a new job, and then all of a sudden, you’re like, Oh, you know what, I’m better at that than I thought.

[00:15:09] That’s self awareness, right? Given the opportunity to lead for the first time, some folks are really good at it. Others are not, right? Not everybody is a gifted or a great leader. Giving that opportunity to do that. So yeah, there may, there might be understandings that change. Is that even a word, understandings?

[00:15:27] There may be things that change about you. Fundamentally, most of us stay, though, kind of the same most of our lives, if that makes sense.

[00:15:37] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I need, I probably need to go back and take the test again

[00:15:40] Jim Collison: Connor, do you remember yours? Do you, do you remember any of your Top 5?

[00:15:44] Conor Brown: you know what, I was just trying to rack my brain, but I’m going to pull it up as we’re asking the next question

[00:15:49] Jeff Sieh: Okay, so, uh,

[00:15:50] I have a great comment from, uh, Uh, there we go. Um, from Gary, he goes, Um, when it comes to podcasting, I have a bass drum connected to my foot, a harmonica on my neck, and a guitar. I’m a one man podcasting band. So, a lot of people are that way. So, I don’t want to, we talked about teams. But I also don’t want to gloss over like strengths for these solo podcasters.

[00:16:12] So what advice do you have for solo podcasters in leveraging those strengths? You kind of talked about a little bit, but the, the multiple aspects of podcasting, you know, content creation, marketing, repurposing, uh, tech management, all that stuff. If you’re doing it by yourself, like Gary is, you know, how do you kind of do that altogether?

[00:16:30] Jim Collison: Yeah, I think an easy way to do it is create a list of all the things that you’re currently doing with your podcast. So list out those steps and start at the very beginning. OK, what am I doing for pre show? How am I inviting guests? Or What kinds of things am, you know, how am I creating my content? Think about your show notes that you’re putting together pre, pre show.

[00:16:51] Then think about the show itself. What am I doing? What’s the, what’s the content of that? How is that laid out? What do I want it to look like? Do I, am I doing it in segments or am I, is it live? Is it live and I’m editing it? Some of those kinds of things. And then think about all the post show stuff that you have to do.

[00:17:07] Are we creating transcripts? What’s it going to look like? Where it’s going to post? List all of those things out. And don’t do a quick list. Really think about it. Or one week, just keep track of all the things that you do. As you’re doing them, write that down, right? It can be that simple. Then grade yourself 1 to 5 on how good you are at it, or how much you like it.

[00:17:28] And maybe you do two columns. Good at it, like it. Right? 1 to 5. If 5’s the best, 1 is the worst. The 1’s and 2’s, you need to find somebody else to do them. Like, for example, Figure out, like, figure out, How do I get rid of these things? How do I automate them? How do I minimize them? You may just have to do them, to be honest.

[00:17:48] Like, that may be something. But figure out, How do I minimize the damage that I’m doing? Because I’m not good at this, or I don’t like it. I know when I don’t like doing things, I put them off forever. Right? So you don’t, you don’t want to do that, right? And then the 3, you start saying, okay. How can I, how can I do more of these things?

[00:18:09] Or how can I make, how can I get better even at some of these? What kind of investments could I make to be a better, in my case, I’ll use me as an example, I love to interview people. So how can I be a better interviewer? What can I do to set up myself so I ask, Great questions. How can I pay more attention to when someone’s actually speaking so I make sure I have great follow up questions?

[00:18:31] Those kinds of things. I really like doing that. So I think, Jeff, that’s a great exercise to kind of sit down, grade yourself on those things. Now, if you have like a CliftonStrengths Assessment, if you have a tool there, you could bring those words in, and we have 5, if you can buy the All 34 report to kind of see a full list of what you have.

[00:18:53] You can begin to assign some of those. Words, if you want to, those theme names, or even some of the talents behind them that you, that you know you have. Like, No, I’m good at this. I’m good at interviewing. I’m going to add that word in there as I’m thinking about it. And then you can begin to start, and do this slow.

[00:19:12] This isn’t a weekend activity. This is a lifetime of discovery. Begin to spend some time thinking about, How can I put myself in more situations where I’m able to do this? How can I, how, what, what, what can I do from a skill? Because there’s still skill. We can still learn things, right? I can still learn to be a better interviewer.

[00:19:30] I can still learn to have better conversations. How can I sharpen that skill? That’s gonna come pretty fast. ’cause I like it. You know, I have discipline at the very bottom. Focus and discipline are at the very bottom of my Clifton strengths. So listen, I’m not gonna put myself in situations where I have to have heavy focus.

[00:19:47] And when I do, I, I, I really gotta know, okay, I’m gonna need a couple days off afterwards ’cause I’m not good at it. Right. It’s gonna, it’s gonna really, really tax me. So I probably shouldn’t do a podcast where I have to focus very long, if that makes sense.

[00:20:02] Jeff Sieh: So one of the things that, uh, you know, and we’re big fans of Lou Mangiello, who’s been, he’s like Dave, he’s been, and you like podcasting forever. And one of the things, and I actually, we disagree on this, but it’s just because of the style of the show that we do, like he, He likes, and he mentioned this in his live show this week, that he likes to go into his interviews without any questions.

[00:20:22] Now he researches a ton about the person, he has an idea where he wants to go, but for me, I have questions for each section and I send those to my guest because in my situation I found the people that I interview, They don’t always read them. They don’t have to read them. They don’t always, we don’t always, most of the time we don’t always follow them, but it makes me feel better that I’m prepared.

[00:20:45] And it also, those people who are nervous about being on a show. It gives them somewhere to go. I mean, it gives them some like, Oh, I can answer this. I can answer this. So it’s okay to disagree with your heroes or your, the people that you want for your systems that work for you. So I thought that was something to, to tag into that, you know, when you maximize your strengths.

[00:21:04] Conor Brown: I think that’s great. Jeff, I’m going to throw you a curveball, and I think we should go to Abby’s question All right. Because it’s really great, but before that, I will say I looked up my strengths. We’ve got Input, Connectedness, Learner, Achiever, and Intellection. So I

[00:21:19] Jim Collison: nice. OK, yeah, that Intellectual Learner, Connor, for you, may be interesting, bringing, Jeff has that Maximizer in there. So it’s always, you know, Maximizer’s a quality or quantity component. And so, Jeff, you probably push, but now all of a sudden your repurposing starts to make sense to me. Right? A little bit of that Maximizer in there of like, Hey, we’ve got this content.

[00:21:43] How can we use it to its fullest extent? That’s a, that’s a, that’s your Maximizer speaking in there. And that’s super cool. Now, all of a sudden, if you and I, if I was coaching you on your podcasting, and I knew that, Boy, that brings me, that gets me a whole bunch of miles ahead and some insight to you that allows me to have some advanced conversations with you.

[00:22:06] We don’t have to spend a whole bunch of time figuring that out. We go, Oh, your repurposing makes sense. So how do we, how do we, how do we continue to help you push that? And I’m sure you’re pretty good at it, and I’m sure it’s pretty successful. So, but you could, there’s always things you could do better.

[00:22:21] We could focus on that. You’d, you’d probably enjoy that.

[00:22:24] Jeff Sieh: yeah. I mean, so, and, and the thing is, it even, now that I’m thinking about it, it even goes back into my love for Ecamm, which we’ve, we’ve talked about before and, and, you know, they, how it came into sponsoring the show. And by the way, they’re right there, ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Um, what, why I loved them is because when they went to being able to record individual streams of the, the video and the audio, it made my repurposing.

[00:22:49] It was like, I can do this so much quicker and easier. And so I see now why. I was drawn to them and I love the company because it fits into those strengths, because of what I wanted to do. So I think that’s, that’s kind of fascinating. Okay. You want to take Abby’s question, Connor?

[00:23:03] Conor Brown: Yeah, let’s do it. So, Abby asked great when she says, what about when you have your strengths listed in front of you, but you still suffer with major imposter syndrome? So you’ve gotten this back. This is, you know, what it’s telling you, but, but you’re still like, can’t make that breakthrough of sorts.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:38] Jim Collison: the scenes they are, there’s something that they’re struggling with, right?

[00:23:42] And, and even in all the things that I’ve said about my podcasting and the work that I do and my influence and my interviewing of people, there are moments I, uh, either going into, I have, I have some real issues, uh, interviewing famous people. Like I avoid it like the plague. That is not something I like to do.

[00:24:02] I like to interview the regular people in the world, you know, the, the, the average person in the world. That’s kind of the average guy where that, that kind of came from. So I have some imposter syndrome because I don’t feel like I belong there with those people. People, I was in a, I got invited to a 25th anniversary party this week.

[00:24:23] And I sat in a room with a bunch of senior scientists, some PhDs and some folks that really are smart, and I’m not. And I was like, Oh, like, I’m a little out of my league on this. And they’re like, No, no, no, no, no, no, you, you belong here. Trust me, you should be here with us. Right. But we all suffer from that.

[00:24:42] And I think the key is, To embrace that for what it is, why are we, so what is it about those fears that we have? Like, and I can identify that. I don’t, you know, I don’t want to, oftentimes with famous people, you’ve got to compromise some of the questions because they feel like they’re more important than everybody else.

[00:25:01] And that attitude drives me crazy, right? It just, I, We’re just all humans, right? We all put our pants on the same way. So, so I don’t, I don’t, I have trouble with those egos. But I know at times I need to do it. And I just need to buckle down. And that’s where I’m going into an interview like that. So I just psych myself up, put some things aside and get it done, like when I need to do it.

[00:25:25] So I think we all suffer from it. I think, Abby, the real question is to ask, Why? What, what is causing that, that doubt? And then face it head on. And I think that we can come back to our strengths and say, No, I’m good at these things. And I’m gonna do this, right. My daughter, whenever I say I can’t do something, she says, Well, not with that attitude.

[00:25:47] You can’t, right. She says it to me all the time, right. And it’s true. And I think Impostor Syndrome is one of those things we, we can actually embrace and say, You know what, there’s a little bit of doubt there. I’m going to prove. That, that doubt is not true. And I think that’s good accountability for us.

[00:26:05] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. You mentioned one of the things and it’s funny. I, I, everybody, you know, you talked about everybody has imposter syndromes. Well, one of the things is, is I, when I tell people when I speak or something, Like every Friday before the show, I get nervous. It doesn’t matter who it is. I mean, it can be, you know, and in the same thing, I feel the same way about famous people.

[00:26:22] I mean. I get some cool people on here, like Jay Baer was on a couple, you know, he’s big time, now he’s got this big tequila channel, but, but I get nervous every time, and I, every, every Friday I’m going, why do I do this, why, you know, I suck, and you know, and, and it’s just, but you have to, you never grow unless you push through that hard stuff, you just never do, and,

[00:26:44] Jim Collison: I think, Jeff, the nervousness is actually good. Like I, when, as I interview people all the time, and they’re like, Oh, I’m so nervous. And I’m like, Awesome! Like, embrace that. That will make you better. It’ll make you sharper. You’ll be more in focus and you’ll be more on point. I always find when I get too, listen, I was nervous before I joined you guys this morning.

[00:27:06] Like I, I get nervous before, I get nervous on Saturday mornings when I ask, when I joined Dave Jackson. We’ve done that 500 times or whatever. So, but you embrace that nervousness and say, You know imposter syndrome. Embrace it, let it make you sharper, but lean into it. Right? Lean into it and, and use it to your advantage.

[00:27:28] Jeff Sieh: One of the, it’s a cliche, but it’s really true. It’s like, you got to be, you be comfortable with being uncomfortable. That’s the thing. You’re like, be, you know, be comfortable with being uncomfortable. And that’s what, I just have to embrace every Friday. I’m like, and then I’m done. I’m like you, like after focusing and buttons to press, I’m wiped after Friday.

[00:27:45] I’m like, I’ll see you later. You know, after the show.

[00:27:48] Jim Collison: Yeah, Connor, what about you? Do you, as you’re coming in, since we’ve shared our experiences, what’s been your experience coming into this, to a show like this, or how do you perform, so to speak? I’m putting those in air quotes, but how do you perform?

[00:28:02] Conor Brown: Well, Jeff makes it easy. Um, with everything there, I just kind of show up and stuff. I do love, I love to, love to perform. I love to put myself out there. And I also know that that is something that You know, can paralyze people. That is one of the biggest fears out there. So understanding that I’ve really grown in the aspect of knowing, hey, this is a gift that you have actually liking to do this when so many other people hate to do it.

[00:28:31] So I embrace it as much as possible and try to do it as much as I can to hone that craft further. And I’ve also come to the realization that Nervousness and excitedness are the same exact thing. It’s the butterflies are exactly the same in your stomach, just how you perceive it. So with, yes, you obviously nervous and things like that.

[00:28:51] But at the end of the day, why are you nervous? You’re really more likely. You’re excited to do whatever it is that you want to do that. That’s making you have those feelings.

[00:28:59] Jim Collison: Yeah, I agree. Yeah, and I think there’s actually a, there’s actually a point there, too, of when you’re, when you’re, when your guest or whatever says, Hey, I’m nervous. And I say, You know what? I am, too. Yeah. I say that, all of a sudden we have this moment together where they’re like, Oh, I thought, and they almost always say this, I thought you, you know, you’ve done this a thousand times.

[00:29:21] I thought you would, and I’m like, No, this nervousness is actually good. And so we share this moment together. And then, Well, we don’t talk about it again, and they do fantastic. And so I really do think it’s a good thing to share with people as you’re going into this to say, Yeah, no, I’m still nervous. And listen, there may be some of you who are not nervous, and you do a great job.

[00:29:43] You don’t have to be. It’s just, I know many of you are. And so if you are, that, that’s a technique that I’ve used to kind of get through that.

[00:29:51] Jeff Sieh: It’s interesting, I want to pull up this quote really quick from, uh, over on LinkedIn from Justin. He goes, yes, quite often people are surprised when I tell them, yes, I am nervous at the start of a training course. Delivery on communications, for example, nerves are normal, is the message. We can deploy techniques to help us manage them.

[00:30:05] So that’s a great point, uh, Justin, thank you for sharing that. So yeah, Connor, you had another question I saw?

[00:30:12] Conor Brown: Uh, I don’t think I do,

[00:30:13] Jeff Sieh: Okay. Well, I’ll take it then. Good.

[00:30:15] Jim Collison: I come back around to one more thing about questions? You were talking about preparation, and Jeff, you provided some questions for me. I’ve done shows like this where I haven’t gotten any, and that’s OK either way. But having some preformed questions also good. If you get in a spot, and I’m, listen, I think I’m really good at asking questions.

[00:30:34] But every once in a while, when I’m trying to do all the things at

[00:30:37] Jeff Sieh: Right. Right.

[00:30:38] Jim Collison: The guest stops talking. And I have not put a question in my head to ask next. And it’s really nice to have a fallback question at that point. So that’s where preparation kind of helps in this is, you know, you’ve got something you can quickly go back to.

[00:30:57] You know, look at it real fast and then ask, ask the question. So there are some benefits to being prepared in that way, you know, depending on how you’re doing your show. Right. But there are some benefits to having written it out.

[00:31:08] Jeff Sieh: And also I build in stuff like I go to Connor, I cut to Connor or something, um, to have, give me some spots to read the questions or read the comments and bring those up on the screen. Um, one of the questions, since kind of wrapping up this whole kind of maximizing your strengths in a podcast section. So.

[00:31:26] As a podcaster, how can you continually develop those strengths to continue to be engaging and relevant and, you know, you know, serve your audience. Um, what is the best way to do that?

[00:31:38] Jim Collison: Yeah, I think by looking at your strengths and saying, OK, how do I learn best? How do I grow best? What are some situations where I know I’ve done some things and I’ve grown in the past? And then And then, you know, again, look at those themes and say, OK, what kind of growth strategy can I put forward that will help me just get better at my craft?

[00:32:00] I can really only speak for me in this, because I think these are, these are individual questions for folks that they kind of need to work through. But for me, I do best by doing. So how did podcasting? Well, I’ve done 000 of them, you know, in the last, In the last 13 years, I, uh, yeah, I go to conferences and I listen to other people and I listen to other podcast gurus and stuff.

[00:32:23] But I’m really best by focusing on the actual doing of it for me. And, and so I just, the answer for me is to do, is to do more. I’ve, I’ve gotta, I gotta be honest with the, with the two of you. Jeff, throw, throw everybody back on the screen here for a

[00:32:39] Jeff Sieh: Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:40] Jim Collison: Your, your method of making me in the individual spotlight, this is some behind the scenes stuff, is actually a huge disadvantage for me, because I am a reader of faces.

[00:32:53] When I’m interviewing people and I’m talking to them, I’m watching their body language to know, Am I on point or am I off point? And when you flip to me, I lose all context.

[00:33:07] Jeff Sieh: I, I usually warn people, but I didn’t for you ’cause you’ve

[00:33:10] Jim Collison: no, no, no, no, you’re fine. I think it’s a good, I think it’s a good learning point. I didn’t realize it until as we started getting into this, my brain was like, Get back on the screen.

[00:33:20] Get back on the screen. How do I get these guys back on the screen? I need to see their faces. I need to see them smile. I need to see them making a point. That actually energizes me. And, and I, I know that, but again, because I learned by doing, bringing this back to this point, I just kind of realized, You guys are, you’re putting me in a disadvantage.

[00:33:39] Now, not, not in a bad way,

[00:33:41] Jeff Sieh: so, and the reason I do this.

[00:33:43] Jim Collison: when I see you guys.

[00:33:44] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so I do it because of pattern interrupt, because when I switch to the different things and getting those, because when people are scrolling by the feed, I want them to stop, but it’s a good point, like, I should really ask, and I usually do, I usually warn people, like, hey, I’m gonna put you on full screen, we’re still here, because some people are like, did I lose the connection?

[00:34:02] They freak out, um, but, you know,

[00:34:04] Jim Collison: Well, And I don’t know if I would have realized it until we went through this. I was, yeah, I know that. I kind of know that about myself. I, I, I won’t let anybody just call me. I now say we got to do, we got to do video. We can now, everybody can do video. So most people. So I won’t, I don’t do just phone calls.

[00:34:23] I know I am best when I can see your reactions. I know I’m hitting a point when eyes brighten or people smile, right? That’s important to me. I, even at the beginning of the show, if you would have said to me, Hey, I flip around, I’d have been like, OK. That’s cool, because I can do anything. But it was just in the moment, I realized, like, Oh my God, I’m,

[00:34:46] Jeff Sieh: You’re isolated.

[00:34:46] Jim Collison: me!

[00:34:47] Jeff Sieh: Well, the other, the other reason I do it is because I always want to make this about the, the, the guest and it allows me to bring up my lower, the lower third in an easy way. So it’s spotlighting you. And I’m always, and if you notice, I’m always doing this, like I’m always switching around because I want people to, you know, stay in engaged.

[00:35:03] Jim Collison: I love it. I love it. It was just a thing I discovered. I mean, it’s funny, I discovered that while you were asking me a question about learning. And I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is, this is so true. I just learned. Yeah, I just learned this about myself in real time. So I didn’t really,

[00:35:19] Conor Brown: When Jeff is really thinking, he strokes his beard a lot, and that makes most guests very uncomfortable, we’ve been

[00:35:24] Jeff Sieh: Well, it’s better than doing this or something, you know? So anyway.

[00:35:28] Jim Collison: do that too. I do that too. I kind of, you know, thinking about things. Well, those visual clues are, are important, right, in, in this interviewing space that we’re doing. Maybe not if you’re doing a highly produced podcast where, you know, think of like a DIY or how to do something or some of those kinds of things.

[00:35:44] But in the interviewing space, the body language is very, very, very important. And I just realized how much I depend on it.

[00:35:52] Conor Brown: I love that because that kind of brings us into our next topic we want to talk about, especially, you know, podcast originally starting as an audio only medium. Nowadays, it’s when you start a podcast, it, it’s almost always video first, or you’re having some sort of video component. And Jim, you know, some of your shows are live.

[00:36:08] They have a video component. What you were just talking about, how important is it to you or just in general for a podcast to have a video component today?

[00:36:19] Yeah.

[00:36:45] Jim Collison: things. And yeah, I would consider putting it on YouTube as a podcast, as a repurposing of that, um, in its entirety. And I don’t, I don’t do as much as, you know, Jeff, as you do to repurpose your stuff. But I, um, I do think I’m going to get it anyway.

[00:37:01] And so I might as well use it. For some podcasters, that may be a real hang up. You know, the video component of things, they may not be comfortable with it. They may not want their image out there. They may not, it’s extra time, and it’s extra hard. I mean, editing video is hard. Audio, once you figure out it’s just math.

[00:37:21] You know, audio, it’s a piece of cake. Like, it’s just waveforms. You can do some crazy things with audio, and it still sounds good. You can’t do crazy things with video. It, you get a shot at it, or you don’t. Now, AI may fix this for us. We may be able to, I think in the future with, with video blending and AI being able to change what our lips are doing and smooth out the jump cuts.

[00:37:46] That may, in the future, that may get easier. But today, video editing, I think, is still pretty hard. So what I say, Connor, what I say it’s important, I would say it is if it is important to you. And, and if you, if you want to use it, do it. If you don’t, you don’t have to. You know, you can, you can totally ignore that.

[00:38:04] Are you missing possible viewers on YouTube? Yes. Right? You, that, yes, yes, you are. How many depends on what you do. I mean, listen, there’s some dumb stuff on YouTube that gets. giant numbers. And I’m like, Why? Why? I make good content that doesn’t get those numbers. And you know, this other stuff does. Who knows?

[00:38:28] All I know is I can’t control any of those things. So I would say, base it on what you want to do. If you want to provide it, do it. If you don’t,

[00:38:38] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:39:06] Jeff Sieh: I just, cause I was lazy. I’m like, why not have everything and put it out everywhere? Um, I think. It’s easier if you’re just getting started at podcasting and you’re wanting to do video podcasts.

[00:39:16] Most guests now be, one of the side effects of COVID is that most people have a, if they’ve done any sort of calls they had or work from home, they had a setup. And they’re more comfortable being on a Zoom call and, This is just an elevated Zoom call, pretty much, with better tech, so I think more people are able to do it that way.

[00:39:35] On this podcasting tech, Jim, I wanted to ask you, especially because this is kind of your Home Gadget Geeks kind of hat on, like, where do you go to find out about new gadgets and tech trends that you put on your Home Gadget Geeks podcast? It’s a great show. It’s really, I really enjoy it because, I mean, I’m into that home automation and all the kind of other stuff you guys talk about on there.

[00:39:56] But where do you go? Is it just something you consume daily that you say, Hey, I’m going to do a show about? Like, how do you find out stuff you’re going to discuss on Home Gadget Geeks?

[00:40:04] Jim Collison: think it’s a good question, Jeff. I’m not sure if I’ve thought around the methodology of that. I have a great group of, of listeners who have been with me for 15 years. I’ve met many of them in person. We used to do meetups before the pandemic. We’d do meetups all the time, and I’d meet them. They give me suggestions.

[00:40:23] So they’ll say, Hey, can you talk about this? Can you talk about that? Or I’ll just find interesting people that are in the tech space, and I’ll just interview them. And if they’re I think of, I have a gal from Canada, Erin Lawrence, joins me. And she, that’s her job. And so she, you know, she’s constantly reviewing things.

[00:40:45] And so I have her on once a quarter, and she’s always got stuff from her site that she’s reviewed. It’s a great, great resource. It’s a great partnership. I, I get to highlight the things she’s doing, and she is great content for me. I’ve gone industry, you know, I’ve, I’ve interviewed industry folks. Jamie Siminoff from Ring, the CEO of Ring, I got a chance to interview him before Amazon bought his stuff.

[00:41:10] So Ring had just come off of, actually, and I didn’t know this. Ring had just come off of Shark Tank, and they had said no. Now, this is one of those areas I didn’t do any of that research. I just knew he was the CEO of Ring. I knew Ring was cool. So I asked him and he said, Yes, there’s another, there’s another, you know, principle in that.

[00:41:32] You’ll never get a guess. You never ask. So that’s, that’s a principle. They’ll, you’ll never get a chance to talk to them if you don’t ask them. So, um, and they can always say no, you know, and that’s OK, too. So it’s a kind of a, for me, it’s kind of a combination of things. And I’ve had various co hosts on the show at various times.

[00:41:54] Christian Johnson started with me. Andrew Morris was there. We kicked back, Mike Weger was a co host of mine for a while. He’s done, I’m solo now, but I don’t, I rarely do a solo show. I almost always have a guest. And so it’s just, I kind of let the universe provide on that one, right? HomeGadget Geeks is fun.

[00:42:14] I just do it for fun, right? And I have,

[00:42:16] Jeff Sieh: And you can tell. Yeah.

[00:42:18] Jim Collison: Yeah, no, we’re just goofing around. It’s my Thursday night tech connection. It actually started because when I started at Gallup 17 years ago, I was a tech manager, and I stopped doing, I’d been a software developer before I was a database developer. And I stopped doing tech, and I was missing it.

[00:42:36] And so I kind of started HomeGadget Geeks to do some, to talk about some of this tech stuff that I was missing at work. And that just kind of kept me, it just kind of went on from there.

[00:42:46] Conor Brown: Yeah, something that you’re passionate about, which is really, really cool. And I know, you

[00:42:51] Jim Collison: it’s more fun than passion, just to be honest. It’s, for me, it’s just more fun. I enjoy the topic and the conversation.

[00:42:57] I find other people who are super passionate. Like Erin does the best reviews I’ve ever seen. And I’m not a review guy. Talk about knowing your strengths. I’ve tried reviews. I suck at reviews. I am terrible at reviews. Jim, stop doing reviews, right? And so I found her. She’s great at reviews. Let’s, let’s just maximize her strengths, right?

[00:43:21] And, and not have me try to do it.

[00:43:24] Conor Brown: for something like Home Gadget Geeks, which you say is for fun and you love doing it because it is fun. How many hours a month do you devote to it? Whether it’s, you know, the research, getting guests, inviting them on. Testing, recording, all that sort of stuff. Cause for a lot of us here, our, our podcast is something that we do for fun as well.

[00:43:43] Um, you just happen to also do podcasts professionally, but then you, you have this thing that you do for fun.

[00:43:48] Jim Collison: Yeah, and, and podcasting is only, you know, at work at Gallup, podcasting is probably 30 percent of the job. So it’s not all of it. I have community management responsibilities and client support and some other things that I, that I help manage in the organization. But, um, you know, OK, if you ask me for a number, I’m going to say 12 hours a month I spend on HomeGadget Geek.

[00:44:09] So I do it I do it, let’s just say I do 4 in a month, one every Thursday, and it’s probably 3 hours of work, maybe 4 if there’s, if I’m, if I’m really trying at that point. You know, you got to, you got to find a guest, a little bit of communication around that, get that set up. You know, a little bit of a pre call, the actual show.

[00:44:31] That’s probably an hour and a half. Nah, it’s probably like two hours. And then post production’s a good solid hour. I think I can do most of it in maybe an hour, hour and a half to get it all. I’ve streamlined it. I have Maximizer 2, Jeff, so I’ve streamlined it to get as much of it automated as possible.

[00:44:48] So, yeah, 12 to 20. Maybe?

[00:44:51] Jeff Sieh: yeah, that’s, that was a question, and this is another cool thing is, when you’re coming up with questions, I reached out to my community, who I knew were podcasters and who knew how to do this, and that was a question from Gary Stockton. Like he said, hey, ask, ask Jim this, because, you know, how does he balance spending the time?

[00:45:07] So, that’s the other thing, once again, Maximizer here, how can I get the questions, you know, that I don’t, that I could get easily, and I know these guys are passionate about it, so that’s really, really cool. One of the questions, and this is a really strategic one from Megan Powers, thanks for watching, Megan, over on YouTube.

[00:45:22] She says, I’m recording a show about community. I’m prepping right now. Anyone have questions or suggestions? Virtual hug. So, I love what she’s doing. She’s crowdsourcing the comments and us. So, um, what are some other ways, Jim, that you go when you’re recording? You’re trying to get questions, especially for your Gallup thing.

[00:45:41] Cause I mean, those are, that’s a lot of podcasts. Like there’s a lot of stuff going on with all those three, three or four that you do when you’re coming up those questions. Cause you said you’d love to ask questions. Do you crowdsource them in any way? Are they all internal ones? Are you going and looking at what people are asking in the community?

[00:45:59] How are you finding those questions? Okay.

[00:46:02] Jim Collison: I’m gonna invoke the cone of silence to all of us and the audience. See, this is a secret. You can’t tell anybody at Gallup this is what I do, right, because they think I work hard at this. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna give you a secret, right. So, so actually, for when we have guests on, I try to find the person at Gallup who’s closest to that work and say, because I don’t know, like when we interview a client, I don’t, I don’t know that.

[00:46:28] I I find the, I find the individual, the associate who is closest to them, and then say, Hey, I’d invite them on the show. Then I encourage, we follow a case study format. So I like systems to do things. It’s just easier to always have a system and then deviate from the system. So we use a case study format.

[00:46:49] What was the problem? How did you solve it? What did it, what were your results? What’s the future? That’s our case study format. 4 points, super easy. And then I say, Give me 12 questions. That, between the two of you that you agree to, that’s going to take us through this format, right? 12 is not, it can be more, it could be less, doesn’t matter.

[00:47:10] It’s just a number. People need a number. Otherwise, they’ll write endlessly, or they won’t write any. So 12, right, right. I give them 12. And then right before the show, I just review the questions that they came up with. And I’ll start the show, introduce the, the, the host, as I call it, the person who’s closest to the customer.

[00:47:28] They have a great conversation. I just butt in. I just, I get to be there. I get to be the one who, or if I see it going off the rails a little bit, I’ll bring it back on, or if there’s a technical problem, I’m there, I’m there to fix it. It’s my job to really be the producer. I get to be a producer host for those kinds of things, which is super great.

[00:47:48] In the CliftonStrengths podcast, we actually outline the questions in the beginning of the season. And because it’s theme related, we ask the same questions for each of the themes and roll through that content. Now, the trick on that is how do you not get bored on asking the same questions 34 times, right?

[00:48:06] So it’s my job to style, or that’s probably not the right word. It’s my job to ask the same question differently, or in a different way, or with a different inflection, 34 times.

[00:48:19] Conor Brown: And

[00:48:20] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that would be.

[00:48:21] Jim Collison: I’m, I’m good at it. Right. I’m good at that kind of, of, of same content, but making it sound a little bit different each time that we get to it.

[00:48:31] Um, so,

[00:48:33] Jeff Sieh: like that because you think about, like, John Lee Dumas at, uh, Entrepreneur on Fire. Like, he pretty much asks the same question in his format every day. I think he, I mean, like, he used to. I don’t know if he continues to do this, but yeah, I think that’s, uh, um, something that if you can do it well, once again, if you’re a maximizer, you just, you’re repurposing your questions, but asking it, like, in a different way.

[00:48:55] Yeah.

[00:48:55] Jim Collison: that was a way of doing something repetitive that, where we didn’t have to think, we’d had to come up with a different format. And we have done, I have done that in the past. It’s just a lot of work. And I had a very expensive resource that I needed to, to To say, OK, can’t take up as much as your time is, let’s come up with a similar format that, that we can just roll through 34 times.

[00:49:16] And that, that piece, that piece worked as well. When I interview, when it’s just me and a guest, I’ll have a couple questions. But I always start with, Tell me a little bit about yourself. You know, let’s get to know a little bit about you. And then I’ll always have a Why question. Why are we here today? And that, you, you start down that path.

[00:49:34] And then here’s the key. Here’s the secret. You just listen, right? Just actually listen to what they’re saying. You’ll have plenty of content to get it down. And so if you keep the Why in mind, I think somebody wrote a book about that. If you keep the Why in mind, and, and are interested in your guest, the rest will come.

[00:49:57] If you need questions, and you Write them. If you don’t, don’t. Like, just go with what you’re best at.

[00:50:03] Jeff Sieh: One of the things, and I think you and Dave have talked about this on the Saturday show, is that, you know, The listening part of podcasting, because you can tell, and we’ve all seen them and we’ve all probably been on guests on them before, when you can tell the person is just waiting, they’re not listening to you at all.

[00:50:18] They’re just waiting to ask the next question on their list, right? They’re just ready to, or they’re ready to talk about themselves again. Like they always bring it back to themselves, which is also really annoying. So that, what you just said, I think is a big takeaway for people is learn how to listen.

[00:50:31] Like, you know, yes, produce your show. Yes. Pull up comments, but you got to listen or you’re, you know, why do it?

[00:50:40] Jim Collison: Yeah. Well, you saw me, I tried to bring Conor back in. When he said he had taken the Top 5, I’m like, OK, like game on. Let’s talk about this thing, right? And it was great then, Jeff, when you got yours. I made sure I, I read what was there, and I picked out that Maximizer, similar to me, easy to talk about at that point.

[00:51:00] Even as a guest, I’m trying to do some of those similar things to make sure I’m staying engaged and listening to what’s going on. Because I think it makes for a better guest. Like I, it’s as important to me that I’m providing content and interesting things for your guests as just being here. And you’re here, both of you are here anyways, so why wouldn’t I

[00:51:22] Jeff Sieh: Right. Exactly.

[00:51:24] Jim Collison: those kinds of people?

[00:51:25] Conor Brown: yeah. You It’s hard not to pay attention to Jeff, of course. I mean, he’s

[00:51:29] Jeff Sieh: Oh, I

[00:51:29] Jim Collison: Oh, well, that beard is handsome. I’m not

[00:51:31] Jeff Sieh: know what’s going to come out of the beard.

[00:51:33] Jim Collison: beard.

[00:51:33] Jeff Sieh: I can pull stuff out of it.

[00:51:35] Conor Brown: funny because, you know, Jim, when you were, you were talking about, Hey, don’t tell anyone at Gallup, this is how I get my questions. I just assumed you’re going to go down the chat GPT route, right? The, the, cause we’ve seen so much of that lately when it comes to tech trends and podcasts, right? Whether it’s editing, whether it’s content creation, it’s, it’s a big deal right now.

[00:51:55] But what kind of emerging tech trends do you see? Really gaining significance in podcasting either right now or, or within the next couple of years.

[00:52:07] Jim Collison: Connor, that’s a great, that’s a great question. And don’t get me wrong, I think Chat GPT has its place, and it has streamlined some things. It’s made some stuff easier. It’s a great, it’s a great summary tool. I actually think Chat GPT is underutilized in the area of translations right now. I think if we’ve got some great translation engines built, but we know their accuracy is terrible.

[00:52:31] But if we fed the, if we first ran it through a translation engine, and we Got it close and then let ChachiBT clean it up. I think we’re on to something there. And I don’t know why that double run has not happened yet for folks. I just don’t, I don’t, I don’t get it because the translation stuff coming out is is terrible.

[00:52:51] In moments, unreadable. And Chat GP could absolutely, it’s good at those kinds of things. OK. So some of that, of course, in the art, the area of art and art generation, I mentioned the area of video and video generation. I think some of those AI things of saying like, Hey, I can take the image of a human and make it do things that look real.

[00:53:16] This is where we’ve always had problems in the past. This, that kind of stuff has not looked real, and people freak out over it. I think those are, for video editing, that’s an area that, that

[00:53:26] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. There’s some cool

[00:53:27] Jim Collison: is important. We are still in a spot, I mean, the internet has gotten pretty good. Everywhere, I want to say 10 years ago, still struggled in some countries.

[00:53:38] We, we also have podcasts in 9 different languages. So I deal with people all around the world, right, on the, on the work side of things. And there are still pockets of the world where the internet is not good. I think there’s some areas in audio that are yet coming, or even live. You know, Connor, you were talking a few minutes ago, and it, we, it dropped.

[00:53:58] a little bit on us. Right. I think there’s some areas where it wouldn’t, it wouldn’t be that hard to reconstruct that

[00:54:08] Jeff Sieh: Descript already does it. Descript already does that. Like, when I have

[00:54:12] Jim Collison: But live and real,

[00:54:14] Jeff Sieh: oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:54:15] Jim Collison: I mean, like right now, as that was happening, there’s no reason, we have the processing power to do this, I think. And so could we, could, could we overlay that over live stuff?

[00:54:27] Yeah, maybe delayed 5 seconds, but on YouTube it’s delayed 25 seconds anyways. So why wouldn’t, you know, why, so some of those kinds of things, I think. I’m not a, I’m not as big, I don’t have a lot of good thoughts, Jeff, actually, in the future of podcasting. It’s a pretty mature space. That may be an area I’m not, I’m not the best.

[00:54:49] Jeff Sieh: I think that the tools are coming that will make our jobs to produce the podcast easier. The, the, the, the, the skills to do a podcast are still, you know, they’re established. You know, you were talking, you’ve talked about the entire show, how to ask questions, how to listen, Those things won’t change. Like, to make a good show, those things won’t change.

[00:55:08] The time spent editing our show, I think, will get smaller and smaller and easier and easier, um, but the skill set to listen and to do a question, you know, I think that’s, that’s still going to be there for a long time. As we wrap up, um, this has been a fascinating show. Dave Jackson’s, uh, actually commenting, going, hey, what was your aha moment, you know, and, uh, uh, Dave, if you don’t watch the Saturday show with.

[00:55:33] With Jim and Dave, it’s really, really great. Like I, it’s one of my things I do. I have my coffee Saturday morning. I watch the show. It’s great people. A lot of our friends are in there. Gary and Chris are usually there as well. So make sure you check that out. Free plug for Dave, cause he’s such a good guy.

[00:55:47] But one of the last questions I want to ask, and I believe this is also from Gary, is, um, how with this four, three or four different podcasts you’re doing. Inside of, you know, Gallup’s kind of ecosystem. How do you keep your content fresh and engaging?

[00:56:03] Because you mentioned you have to take those same questions and kind of repurpose them, but I could, I could see getting burnt out.

[00:56:09] On, okay, we’re talking about CliftonStrengths, you know, every day, all day, all these different things. How do you keep that fresh and engaging across all those different podcasting shows?

[00:56:18] Jim Collison: Yeah, it’s not as hard as you think. And it goes back to a question or an answer I gave a few minutes ago is that everyone’s different, and everyone’s interesting. And everyone has their own take and their own spin on things. And, and so if you are curious, you know, Ted Lasso made the, made that famous, right?

[00:56:40] But if you’re curious, the content is endless on this. I mean, it’s just how you do 604 episodes and Dave and I, by the way, askthepodcastcoach. com if you want to join us, Saturday mornings, 9. 30, just so we get that out. 9. 30 central. As long as you’re interested in people or interested in your subject, um, or interested in, you know, in, in what you’re doing, I, I, it’s, it, it, I don’t know if it ever gets old.

[00:57:11] I mean, people are just endlessly interesting. And so they have different stories and different things are happening to them. Even 10 years ago. So I’d give you different answers, even to the same questions. You know, maybe even in 6 months, I might give you different, different answers to it. Uh, I think of Dave and I, you know, doing this show together for so long.

[00:57:33] He is the longest co host, I think, that I, that I have right now. Every Saturday morning, we look at each other, and what are we going to talk about? And, you know, Ryan, it’s, and he’ll say to me, There’s nothing new. And I said, Dave, it’s all new. Like it’s, this is, we’ll find some things. One, because we have a super engaged audience that joins us on Saturday mornings.

[00:57:55] Like the audience, the chat’s a show other than a show. It itself is a show, right? And then we, we can pull content from that. And there’s always things happening, right? There’s always things happening in a space. Just spend some time. I think the other key in that, then, is I genuinely like Dave as a, as a person, as a human.

[00:58:16] He is a good friend. We have a great relationship. I find him very, very interesting. And so I get to spend an hour and a half with him every single week. That’s, we’re just being friends. At that point, and I’m sure you and Connor have a similar dynamic. You just like spending time together. So we get off the.

[00:58:34] Jeff Sieh: not really, but as soon as we’re done, we’re

[00:58:36] Jim Collison: Well, sorry, I misjudged that one.

[00:58:38] Jeff Sieh: no, no, he’s a, he’s a good guy. He’s been, we’ve had a good time on this show. Yeah. So very

[00:58:45] Jim Collison: yeah, yeah, no, I genuinely like Dave. So it makes it, it makes it easier, and I think more interesting because we’ve got that relationship. I know where he’s going to go on things. He knows where I’m going to go. I know when he’s in trouble and I need to just keep talking. I know, you know, he’s like, ah, things are going on behind the scenes, whatever.

[00:59:03] So, um, uh, he’s a genuine friend and I, uh, and it just makes it easier

[00:59:08] Jeff Sieh: you’ve also got those things for being it for long. Like I stole the, you know, time to get your nerd on, uh, Chris Stone actually suggested that to me because, uh, you, there’s even like, he’s got a little soundbite that he plays like, Oh, it’s time to get Jim to get his nerd on

[00:59:22] Jim Collison: me to get my nerd

[00:59:23] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So those things, once again, AI can’t make up, you can’t do those.

[00:59:27] Those are community based. Those are, you know, being together and the synergy you guys have together. So I think that’s really important too. So Connor, you have the last

[00:59:37] Jim Collison: You, you said it, reps. So, sorry, Conrad, go ahead.

[00:59:40] Conor Brown: No, no, no. I was just going to say, to kind of wrap it all up, let’s say there’s someone out there that’s just starting on their podcast journey. Over all of the podcasts that you’ve done, Jim, and all the advice that you’ve given, what’s kind of the one thing, critical piece of advice you would give to someone just starting out on their podcast

[00:59:58] Jim Collison: Yeah. Yeah, this is a hard one, because it’s so personal to people. Um, uh, well, one, you, if you don’t, you know, I used to, when I was recruiting college students, I’d go and say, I can guarantee you, if you don’t apply for the job, you’ll never get it. Right? So you have to, that’s the only guarantee in life. So you have to start, you have to start doing something.

[01:00:19] And, and I always, I always say if you can, if you can continue to have great self awareness and gravitate towards those things that you are best at, that you can have success with immediately, and that you really enjoy doing, for listening. It’s hard to do the wrong thing at that point. It really is hard.

[01:00:36] But you got to do it. So if you’re thinking about doing it, and you’re like, I should be doing this, well, give it a try. Get out there, do some things. Don’t, and don’t make it, I had an old, I had an old friend of mine, it’s one time we were creating an event, and I said, So are we going to call it Annual? And he goes, Let’s just do it once and see if we like it, right?

[01:00:54] And so there’s, there’s some great advice to that of just give it, just get, Go to, you can’t get to 10 without doing 1. And so do 1, and if you like it, do 2. If you like it, still like it, do 3. And then if you stop liking it, just stop,

[01:01:11] Conor Brown: yeah.

[01:01:12] Jim Collison: right. If at some point you’re like, You know what, I’m done saying these things.

[01:01:16] I just don’t want to talk about this anymore. Dave and I have that conversation pretty often on Saturday mornings, like, Are we ever going to get sick of saying the same things? We keep showing up on Saturday mornings, and we show up for people. That’s why we show up, right. We show up for the chat room.

[01:01:28] Because we enjoy being with those people, and it’s a ton of fun. So you got to do it, though.

[01:01:33] Jeff Sieh: totally agree. Uh, we’ve got some great comments as we wrap up, uh, from our friends. Um, yeah, is, uh, Chris says, ask the podcast coach is worth getting up for on Saturday morning. How long are you sleeping in, Chris Stone? Geez. Um, so, uh, and then Jim Alt says, uh, thanks for such a great guest and great show.

[01:01:51] Gary says, yes, big ups for today’s show, guys. Great guest and great conversation. I totally agree. Jim, I’m going to do what you said not to do. I’m going to put you up full screen so you can tell everybody where you’re going. You can, they can find you and all your podcasts and what you got going on.

[01:02:03] Jim Collison: Yeah, so if you want to find the Gallup stuff, just go to gallup. com slash CliftonStrengths, all one word. If you want to see Home Gadget Geeks, you can find it there, what’s below, TheAverageGuy. tv, it is there. And of course, you can join us Saturday mornings, 9, 30 Central, 10, 30 Eastern. AskthePodcastCoach.

[01:02:19] com slash live, if you want to join us live in the video.

[01:02:24] Jeff Sieh: Awesome stuff. Great, great show today. Thank you guys so much for watching. Thank you, uh, Gary, Jim. I, I forgot to do this last time. Connor, where can people find out more about you? Because you’re amazing as well. Like tell us all the things Connor Brown.

[01:02:37] Conor Brown: Thank you. You can head to www. opinion. com or follow me across the socials at www. opinion. Awesome, awesome show today, fellas.

[01:02:45] Jeff Sieh: Yes. Thank you guys for great questions. And thank you for this community where I was able to go even before the show and said, Hey, what do you want to ask Jim? Because he’s going to be on the show and you guys came up with some great stuff. So I appreciate all of you. We will see you guys next week. Have a great weekend.

[01:02:59] Bye everybody.

Is TikTok Ticking Down? with Trend Expert Wave Wyld

🔔 We’re excited to welcome Wave Wyld, a TikTok Marketing & Trends Expert, for an insightful session on “TikTok Ticking Down?.”

Wave will share her journey from launching the “Queen of Trend Alerts” on TikTok to helping thousands grow their accounts with her innovative strategies. Discover how to leverage TikTok trends, enhance your content strategy, and make a lasting impact and profit.

Based on all the buzz around a possible TikTok ban, we’ll also unpack what this means for creators and businesses alike.

Don’t miss out on this important episode for creators! 🚀

Catching the Wave: Trendsetting Strategies on TikTok with Wave Wyld

Why TikTok Matters More Than Ever

TikTok isn’t just another social media platform; it’s a pivotal battleground for digital marketing. With its unique algorithm and user engagement, TikTok offers a sandbox for creativity and a launchpad for viral content. Understanding its core mechanisms and how it can amplify your brand is crucial in today’s fast-paced digital arena.

Overview of Today’s Insights

Wave Wyld brings her expert take on the nuances of TikTok marketing, providing listeners with strategies that encompass everything from trend utilization to navigating potential regulatory changes on the platform.

Navigating Potential TikTok Bans

Well, let’s address the elephant in the room right away—the potential TikTok ban that could significantly impact not just consumers, but marketers and brands as well. During our chat, Wave Wyld recommended a proactive approach to this looming uncertainty. She emphasized the importance of broadening your online presence (not putting all your digital eggs in one basket). Instead, Wave championed the idea of diversifying your digital presence and particularly highlighted the critical role of building and maintaining an email list.

Email lists are the bedrock for creators. Its like owning rather than renting digital land. Wave’s wisdom for TikTok-focused creators diving into email marketing is clear: it’s time to shift gears. Think like a savvy entrepreneur—craft an email newsletter that delivers value unique to your followers, answering the critical question of why they should subscribe. It’s this value proposition that transforms your email list from a mere collection of addresses into a thriving community of engaged fans.

This strategy ensures that, no matter the changes or disruptions on the platform, brands can keep the conversation going with their audience and sustain their marketing momentum. Wave also pointed out that while the threat of a TikTok ban is real, it’s often wrapped up in larger political and economic debates, suggesting that brands should stay alert and ready, but there’s no need to hit the panic button just yet.

Embracing Authenticity on TikTok

Let’s hunker down and chat about authenticity on TikTok—because, let’s face it, nothing beats the real deal. Wave was emphatic about authenticity being the lifeblood of TikTok, even more than slick, high-budget productions. It’s about capturing those in-the-moment experiences that resonate deeply with viewers. The key takeaway? Your content has to feel real, like a spontaneous chat in your car or a story shared straight from the heart.

Wave dished out that this raw authenticity is why we see videos of folks just gabbing away in their cars going viral. It’s all about being genuine and in the moment, which is crucial now that AI is sneaking into the mix. And, as Wave points out, viewers can sniff out what’s real and what’s AI-generated content faster than a hound dog on a BBQ rib.

Carousel Posts as an Example

Now, on the subject of carousel posts—a nifty TikTok feature that’s like a secret weapon for telling your brand story in snapshots. Unlike Instagram carousels, which are like the meticulously curated windows of a high-end store, TikTok carousels are the friendly neighborhood bulletin boards. They’re a series of down-to-earth, even selfie-style, photos with text overlays and tunes that hit the right note.

Wave mentioned that businesses like Gymshark have been knocking it out of the park with photo carousels. Take the founder’s story, for example—pinned with millions of views, it’s just a series of personal photos telling the tale of how Gymshark came to flex its muscles in the fitness world. That’s the kind of storytelling that gets folks hooked, lining up for more, and it’s as real as it gets on TikTok.

Maximizing Engagement with Educational Content on TikTok

Educational content on TikTok excels when it directly answers user questions and solves their problems, engaging audiences by providing real value. Wave emphasizes the effectiveness of TikTok’s Creator Search Insights Tool in uncovering precisely what your audience is curious about. You can use this tool to track trending topics and user queries that align with your brand or industry. This strategic approach allows you to tailor your educational videos to these insights, ensuring your content is not only informative but also deeply resonant. Regularly updating your strategy based on these analytics boosts engagement and positions your brand as a thought leader on the platform, building a dedicated community of followers eager for your educational insights.

Mastering TikTok Trends for Sustained Marketing Success

In our discussion with TikTok marketing specialist Wave, she underscored the significance of not just following trends, but strategically integrating them into your brand’s marketing strategy to enhance engagement and visibility on the platform. To effectively leverage these trends, Wave suggests that brands should not merely copy a trend but instead adapt it to fit their unique brand voice and aesthetic. This could involve putting a creative twist on a popular video format or incorporating a trending sound in a way that highlights the brand’s products or values.

Do’s of TikTok Trends:

  1. Adaptability is King: Wave insists that authenticity reigns supreme, but it’s the brand’s unique spin on a trend that truly captivates the TikTok crowd. It’s about taking a sound or challenge and making it unmistakably yours.
  2. Timeliness: If you’re seeing a trend everywhere, jump on it quickly. TikTok moves at a breakneck pace, and today’s hot trend is tomorrow’s old news.
  3. Strategic Selection: Choose trends that resonate with your brand and can be tweaked to highlight your products or services subtly. It’s not just about joining the bandwagon; it’s about driving it in a direction that aligns with your brand’s path.
  4. Utilizing TikTok’s Tools: The TikTok Creative Center and the Creator Search Insights are goldmines for identifying what’s buzzing. Use these tools to understand which trends can be woven seamlessly into your content strategy.
  5. Content Mix: While trends are your ticket to visibility, don’t let them overshadow your original content. Balance trend participation with educational and user-generated content to keep your brand message clear and consistent.

Don’ts of TikTok Trends:

  1. Don’t Lose Your Brand Voice: Wave cautions against riding every trend wave that comes your way. If a trend doesn’t fit your brand voice or message, let it pass. Your authenticity is not worth compromising for the sake of virality.
  2. Don’t Ignore Analytics: Just because a trend is popular doesn’t mean it’s working for you. Dive into your TikTok analytics to see if your foray into trending content is truly paying off in engagement and conversions.
  3. Don’t Delay: Hesitation is the enemy of TikTok success. When you spot a trend that fits, act fast. Trends have a short lifespan on TikTok, sometimes lasting only about a week.
  4. Don’t Just Replicate: It’s not enough to just copy a trend. Wave emphasizes the need for innovation within the framework of a trend. This creativity is what sets successful brands apart.
  5. Don’t Overlook Engagement: Participation in trends isn’t just about racking up views. Engage with your audience by responding to comments and being present. It’s the personal touch that often converts viewers into loyal fans.

In summary, Wave’s strategic approach to TikTok trends involves a blend of authenticity, timeliness, and smart use of platform tools. It’s about striking the right balance between trend participation and brand consistency while leveraging trends to not only entertain but also to educate, share values, and subtly sell. Wave’s insight into trends is like a roadmap for navigating the TikTok terrain with confidence.

The Vital Metrics of TikTok Success

Wave Wyld gets down to brass tacks when she talks about measuring success on TikTok. It’s not just about the views and the likes; the devil is in the details of TikTok’s analytics. For brands seeking to gauge their success on the platform, Wave suggests a tailored approach. If brand awareness is your holy grail, then you’re looking at views, profile visits, and overall impressions. However, if conversions are your aim, then tracking might require a craftier approach, perhaps using promotional codes to get a handle on organic traffic conversions. A spike in sales post a viral video often paints a rosy picture but staying consistent with your strategy based on your goals is what Wave recommends for long-term success .

Wave champions the rich insights offered by TikTok’s analytics, which she feels many overlook. It’s this goldmine of data that can help tweak and enhance your content strategy. So, before you go chasing after the next big trend or stick to your content calendar, take a moment—dive into those analytics. They are the compass that can navigate your brand through the vast ocean of content on TikTok .

Future-Proofing Your TikTok Strategy

Wave Wyld doesn’t just offer strategies for the TikTok of today; she’s got her finger on the pulse of tomorrow. As the platform evolves, so does the nature of its trends and the way users interact with content. Wave advises staying current with Gen Z trends and pop culture, which heavily influence the viral content on TikTok. Moreover, she speaks to the burgeoning role of AI in content creation, cautioning that while AI has its place, it can’t replace the authentic connection that comes from genuine, human-made content.

Looking ahead, Wave hints at a future where TikTok may well become an even more integrated part of the social media fabric, potentially impacting how we approach content creation across all platforms. She suggests that brands and creators stay flexible and ready to pivot, incorporating new features and adapting to shifts in audience behavior.

By anticipating these changes and preparing for them, brands can not only survive but thrive in the ever-adaptable landscape of TikTok. Keeping an eye on the horizon for the next wave of innovation will ensure that your TikTok strategy remains robust and relevant.

Final Thoughts:

In wrapping up our exploration of TikTok with Wave Wyld, it’s evident that success on this platform is multi-layered. It’s about understanding the importance of building and nurturing an email list as a safety net beyond the unpredictable tides of social media policies. It’s about grounding your brand in the authenticity that resonates with the TikTok audience, using real moments and stories to connect and engage.

Through educational content and insightful tools like the Creator Search Insights, brands can pinpoint what their audience is genuinely interested in learning. But most importantly, Wave reminds us that jumping on trends is an art. It’s about using them strategically, staying authentic, engaging with your community, and ultimately, letting your unique brand voice shine through.

And if there’s one thing we’re taking away from Wave’s treasure trove of TikTok wisdom, it’s this: understand your goals, listen to your audience, and let data guide your creativity. In the dynamic dance of content creation, keep your steps flexible, your rhythm authentic, and your eyes on the analytics. With these strategies in your back pocket, you’re not just chasing trends; you’re setting them.

So there you have it, folks. In the vast, ever-changing world of TikTok, be the navigator of your ship, charting a course through content creation, audience engagement, and trendsetting. Wave Wyld has given us the map—now it’s time to set sail.

Check out Wave’s trend lists here


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh.

[00:00:04] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:11] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever to master TikTok, maybe transforming your ideas into viral content or perhaps elevating your brand to new heights on this short form video platform? Maybe you’ve wondered about the ROI of TikTok, especially if you’ve been reading the news lately. If you’re nodding along, yes. That’s to me.

[00:00:29] Well, today is your lucky day. We are beyond excited to host Wave Wild, an expert in the realm of TikTok marketing, known widely as the queen of trend alerts. Wave’s going to be telling her story from sparking these trend alerts to sculpting impactful digital strategies. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live.

[00:00:51] Wave. How are you doing today?

[00:00:52] Wave Wyld: I’m doing awesome. Thanks for having me. I’m so excited to chat all things tickety tock.

[00:00:59] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. Awesome.

[00:01:01] Conor Brown: Well, we’re so excited to have you as well. And if you don’t know who Wave is, you should, because Wave is a TikTok marketing and trends expert. She has helped thousands of creators and business owners grow their TikTok accounts with a content first and community approach so they can make more impact.

[00:01:19] And more profit. With a background in personal branding, Wave launched a brand on TikTok as the queen of trend alerts, which then started the movement of trend alert style videos that has become a mainstay within the social media industry. industry. Wave has participated in creator community programs with TikTok and YouTube and regularly appears in national media, top rated podcast and social media summits.

[00:01:48] Wave, thanks so much again for being with us today.

[00:01:50] Wave Wyld: Thank you.

[00:01:52] Jeff Sieh: This is, this is so excited. I know a lot of the, our audience is interested in this and, can’t wait to ask questions, but I do wanna do a big shout out to our friends over at Ecamm who sponsored the show. You can find out more about them by going to You can save, 15% if you use the code.

[00:02:09] Jeff, 15. That’s and also. They have got this thing coming up. Yes, it is Leap Into Tools and Tactics. I’m going to be talking about, beyond the stream, leveraging AI for creative, showmanship and strategic repurposing. It’s actually going to be happening, the end of this month at, on April 24th through the 26th.

[00:02:29] You can find out more if you go to leap. ecamm. com. It’s not just me speaking, there’s a ton of other people out there. And they don’t look as surprised as I do in this picture, but, it’s a, it’s going to be a great show. So go to leap. ecamm. com, some great training. I hope to see you all there. So really quickly, let’s jump right into this because this is the question that so many people are wanting to talk about.

[00:02:52] And I, you’ve probably been asked this question so many times, Wave, about this potential TikTok ban. And. You know, I’m really interested to know, you know, like with all this uncertainty, what should businesses do? Should they worry? Should they change their content strategy on these, on different platforms?

[00:03:11] What are your thoughts on this potential TikTok ban?

[00:03:14] Wave Wyld: Yeah, well, I think that you never want to rely on one platform for your business because we know that all of these platforms are rented space and you don’t own your followers. So you always, whether there’s band talk or not, you always want to be focusing on building your email list. This is an absolute must.

[00:03:35] I’m really, really big on using TikTok to list build. I have trainings on that. As for the ban, you know, I’m not so concerned. I really think this is more of a political topic being in the election year. It’s clear this is not an issue about privacy and safety. We all know that meta cells are data to China.

[00:03:58] But right now, if you’re wondering what is going on, the bill is still in the Senate, and there’s absolutely no rush to pass it. This could take years, we don’t know. There’s a lot more senators in opposition of this bill, and TikTok and all of its U. S. investors are pouring millions of dollars into lobbying efforts.

[00:04:19] And I just want to mention that, Actually, it was yesterday, TikTok released an, economic impact report, so you can go check that out. But it’s saying that the platform generated 14. 7 billion for small to medium sized businesses last year, and a further 24. 2 billion in total economic activity supported through small businesses use of TikTok.

[00:04:41] All kinds of other stats in there, but that is absolutely mind blowing. So, of course, you know, they are on a campaign to, to promote TikTok and, and, and not have any issues with this, but those are some of my thoughts on the ban and where it’s going. I think, you know, in the creator world, from what I’m hearing, people are not as concerned.

[00:05:01] We have been, you know, there’s been a talk of a ban for about the last two to three years. We keep seeing this and then it goes away. So I don’t think there’s a lot of concern right now.

[00:05:10] Jeff Sieh: That’s very, very interesting. Now, I told you I do this because I, I, I hear something and then I go on a rabbit trail. So sorry, Connor, for your next question. But, you mentioned, You know, and we’ve seen it, people in the community. We had our, our good friend Leslie Samuel, not very long ago, got his entire YouTube, channel shut down because it was hacked and there was this huge thing, and, you know, it got everybody really thinking, okay, what you just said about being on rented land.

[00:05:36] And I wanna know, and I know you said you had training on it, so you don’t have to go into de deep detail. And I know people can go to your wave and that’s spelled WYL to check out your trainings, but. Other than just having like a link in bio kind of thing to get people on your email list, what are some like, you know, ideas or strategies that you like to tell people to use?

[00:05:58] Because I know everyone just says go to link in bio, but it’s got to be more than that to, to kind of build your email list off of TikTok.

[00:06:04] Wave Wyld: Yeah, well you can think of promoting your email list as a promotional piece of content. So you want to make some content that promotes whatever your lead magnet or your freebie is so that you can build your list. Live streaming is also very, very powerful for list building and you want to use the pinned videos feature.

[00:06:27] So once you’ve made some sort of video that promotes your lead magnet, explains to people why they should get it, what they’re, You know, what, what the results are going to be, then you want to pin that video because when people, visit your profile and they’re coming to check you out, they are highly likely to watch those pinned videos that appear at the top of your page.

[00:06:47] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great, great piece of advice. Yeah,

[00:06:50] Conor Brown: I think you know in this landscape, ban or no ban aside, short form content is, is really king right now. And I don’t see it slowing down anytime soon. I don’t think I kind of only see it picking up, whether it’s on Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, TikTok, LinkedIn, right, might be starting a video kind of first platform as well.

[00:07:11] Wave, what I’m interested in, in knowing is the evolution of, of short form content. how do you see it evolving? Do you see it more as people are just creating short form content and kind of posting across all of these platforms that allow it? Or do Is it really about finding the platform that makes sense for you and short form content really is just how we post content now.

[00:07:34] Wave Wyld: well, there are definitely a lot of people who are repurposing short form videos everywhere because they just want to maximize that type of content. However, one thing you do need to consider is that not all platforms are the same. They have different algorithms. different audiences, different culture.

[00:07:51] So that doesn’t always work for people. And I see that it doesn’t work for some people. but when it comes to like the evolution of short form, I don’t think it’s going anywhere. Like you said, LinkedIn announced this week, it’s testing a vertical TikTok like feed. I posted about this on, on my threads and people were upset.

[00:08:09] People did not like that. I was surprised how much hate there was on LinkedIn. They don’t want this this vertical feed. I think it would be amazing and cool And then you know Wednesday this past week Metta announced this new video player across its social network That’s I don’t know how it works. I haven’t seen it, but it’s gonna recommend reels long form and live videos Like in one vertical format.

[00:08:32] I would love to see what that looks like and how that works. But you know, all the platforms have adopted it. I wouldn’t be surprised to even see some sort of new platform with short form video, pop up because people just love this bite sized, you know, snackable type of content.

[00:08:48] Jeff Sieh: so it’s interesting that you said that about Meta, because when that came out, I, you know, my friend Chris Stone does a lot of, you know, video podcasts, and I asked the question, should we start streaming vertically? Because if this new Facebook player is going to be vertical, you know, so I don’t know, like, this is going to be really interesting to see how this plays out because, is it going to change the format?

[00:09:10] Is it, I mean, who knows what’s going to happen, but yeah, it’s really interesting how this short form video content is going to, kind of go through these, uh, ecosystems. I’m going to bring up some comments from our friends. Gary Stockton says, the one thing I will say about TikTok is they’re super responsive to brands.

[00:09:25] They got us a check mark within 24 hours. Facebook. Question mark, question mark, question mark. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What do you, are they, have you noticed they’ve been really responsive to brands too, Wave, when you’ve dealt with them?

[00:09:36] Wave Wyld: yeah, because they want to encourage more brands to be on the platform, to use the platform, to create content, to use TikTok ads, all of that stuff. So, they are very more, customer focused there.

[00:09:49] Jeff Sieh: Good to know. this, now this is a great question, and since we mentioned Leslie and not building your, you know, everything on rented land, Wanderlust Walking Tours says this, It might be off topic for today’s talk, but I’m interested in thoughts about protecting your content on TikTok because I’m seeing lots of my videos being reposted there from my other YouTube channel.

[00:10:09] Have you noticed, I guess theft of content happening a lot? And is there anything we can do about it? So

[00:10:16] Wave Wyld: I have noticed this across every platform. Creators saying that their content is stolen. It’s reposted on Facebook Reels everywhere. so unfortunately this seems to be a problem in the whole industry. I know one thing that a lot of creators do is they put their own watermark in the content where it cannot be removed or where it’s very visible in the middle.

[00:10:39] It can’t be cropped out. I know that. You know, some people still repost it even with the watermark, and unfortunately, I would say TikTok is really lacking in helping creators with this issue. I also hear the same things for Facebook. I see it all the time. People come to me and they say someone just took all my account, my, my videos.

[00:10:59] They’re reposting them on, on Facebook. We’re reporting it. This is where, you know, I think there’s, the content creators slash lawyers, the lawyers who focus in content creators have a lot of potential, there to help people. So, I would like to see kind of some, some support there and more support from the platforms, because it is such a big issue.

[00:11:21] Jeff Sieh: I know, as a Amazon Influencer Programmer, I know Connor and I are both into that, and one of the things, there is a lot of, an easy way for people to steal your content off Amazon and then post it to their YouTube channel, so one of the best practices for us is to post to the YouTube channel first, and then to, to, you know, to Amazon, and that way, if they try to steal it, it gets the content flagged over on YouTube.

[00:11:41] Do you think there’ll ever be a thing like that, which YouTube has, which is really, really pretty good, I mean, and it’ll flag people trying to steal your content? Do you think TikTok is maybe working on something like that, where it can actually? You know, flag content that’s being stolen as easy as like, kind of like YouTube is.

[00:11:58] Wave Wyld: I don’t know if they’re working on something like that. I would probably suspect that that’s not a huge priority for them right now. I do see, you know, unfortunately, there’s not a lot of support for creators. I myself have had, I think I’ve probably got at least 30 duplicated accounts on TikTok and haven’t had them removed.

[00:12:17] but, you know, I think, you know, It’s really important to educate as well, create, you know, your audience that this is my only account, you know, we’re seeing a lot of that on TikTok. This is my only account. If anyone’s ever asking you for money, that’s not me. be very careful out there, be very diligent, you know, more of that education as we’re seeing a lot more of this that.

[00:12:38] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that can be really frustrating. One of the things Gary said, and I’d love to know your thoughts on this. He goes, you can also disable Stitch and disable others to share in Stories. Do you recommend that or do you, is it? You know, is that a good way to prevent it? Or is it harm your, your content more than it helps, I guess.

[00:12:57] If

[00:12:58] Wave Wyld: I mean, you can play with those settings and experiment and see if it helps. Although, you know, if people want your content, they’re going to take it. It is so easy to just copy the link and use the watermark removal tool. There’s lots of them out there. and a lot of people do that and then just cut your video in if they want to react to it or that sort of thing.

[00:13:17] So, At the end of the day, I think if people want it, they’re gonna take it. They’re gonna find a way, whether it’s got watermarks all over it or whatnot.

[00:13:25] Jeff Sieh: you don’t want it stolen, don’t put it out there. I guess that’s what it comes down to. Yeah.

[00:13:29] Conor Brown: Wave, you know, you brought up a great point that I think resonates with us all. And we always talk about on this show of the importance of knowing you’re posting on something that is rent, rented land. You’re building a community on rented land, the importance of building your, your email list. But let’s say there’s a creator out there who’s, they’ve just only been focusing on TikTok.

[00:13:48] They’ve neglected all the other platforms. They’ve neglected building their email list because. If you want to build an audience, right, they went all in there. They’re spending all their free time on creating TikTok content. Now, if they’ve neglected those other platforms, what would you say they should do for the next, you know, I don’t know, six months or whatever to to focus on on growing themselves outside of the TikTok platform?

[00:14:14] Wave Wyld: Sure. Well, I see a lot of creators who are, you know, putting out personal messages saying, you know, we don’t know where this platform’s going. Go follow me on Instagram. Go sign up for my email list. Go do all of these things. And yeah, sure, that might help, you know, if you want to do that, you can. but yeah, it’s all about diversifying, but I think the most important thing, I can’t say it enough, is just email, email, email, build your list.

[00:14:38] If you don’t have a list and you want to get started with email marketing, that’s going to be something you’re just going to have to learn as, as a content creator. Because remember, as a content creator, you are a business owner, you are a personal brand, you’re an entrepreneur, so you have to treat it like a business.

[00:14:54] so that’s just another thing that you should start adopting into your business and thinking about. What would your email newsletter look like? What do you have to offer people? What value do you have? Why would people subscribe? You know, answering all those questions to figure out, what your email newsletter would look like.

[00:15:13] Jeff Sieh: Great points. Oh, by the way, this is a perfect segue to, I mentioned earlier, the Leap, conference, the Leap Into Tools and Tactics that Ecamm’s doing. One of the speakers is none other than Liz Wilcox, who is excellent at email marketing and is also a current, contestant on Survivor. So, yeah, so it.

[00:15:31] Yeah, so she’s, she’s there doing that, but she’s going to be one of the speakers at Leap. so make sure you go to leap. ecamm. com. Liz is amazing. She’s a good friend. And, yeah, so go check out her, her thing at, at Leap for, Ecamm. one of the things I wanted to jump into next is because this is your, Your jam.

[00:15:47] This is what you are really, really good at is these, these trends that you have done on TikTok. So can you kind of approach how you identify emerging trends on TikTok? Because I mean, you, I think you come out with some almost every day, like it is amazing how you have so many trends and you find and explore these trends that are happening on TikTok.

[00:16:09] So can you talk a little bit about how you identify these?

[00:16:12] Wave Wyld: Yeah, so first of all, it comes with consuming a lot of content, which probably a lot of people don’t want to do or don’t have time for, which is why they come to me. But yes, you can scroll on your For You page and find trends. But first, I really want to identify what a trend is, because this is such a nebulous thing, right?

[00:16:31] Trends can mean so many different things. Like, As an example, last summer, people were jumping off boats and making a video showing them jump off boats. Like, that was a trend. But, or the mob wife aesthetic, right? That is a trend. But there’s, there’s fashion trends, right? But those are not really the types of trends that I talk about.

[00:16:50] Or the ones that you want to pay attention to on TikTok as much. I really help, you know, business owners find ones where you would use the sound. Like you have to use the sound and perform some sort of action in the video. That is what makes it a trend. And the whole idea is that you put your spin on this trend.

[00:17:08] And these are the lifeblood of TikTok. They will never go away. Lots of people make original content, but you also want to make the trending content too. And there are a lot of different types of trends. We have everything from CapCut templates, photo carousels, transition trends, trending effects, dance trends, challenges, and my favorite, the POV trends.

[00:17:30] So keep this in mind, that is kind of what Defines the TikTok trend culture. But back to your original question. keeping up with pop culture is going to help celebrity culture, news, Gen Z slang. this is very wise because it’s a lot, this is a lot where the trends originate. They originate from Gen Z.

[00:17:50] And also being aware of, you know, pop culture consuming content is really key for identifying the trends, and knowing what will become popular. Because, you know, it all comes down to how adaptable it is. So that’s how I know, like, if it’s really going to trend because the more adaptable. It is the more people will participate and the more popular it is.

[00:18:10] now with all that said, there’s also two other things you can check out. There’s the TikTok Creative Center. If you just Google that, it will display trending hashtags, trending topics, trending videos, trending music, all that kind of stuff. and then inside the app, we have a new tool called TikTok Creator Search Insights that will help you identify trending topics in various verticals.

[00:18:34] Jeff Sieh: So I guess I should probably not do a trend on my Trapper Keeper. Okay. back in the day in the eighties, nobody got that. Conor didn’t even know what that was. Okay.

[00:18:43] Conor Brown: going to say to you for a Gen Z slang term, Jeff, you, you give me major ick, which is a good thing. From what I’ve been told.

[00:18:52] Jeff Sieh: Yes.

[00:18:53] Conor Brown: And you’re welcome. I think when it comes to the trends and, and things like that wave, you know, how do you, how does someone like incorporate it into their marketing strategies? I guess from a perspective of, you have your content calendar, right?

[00:19:06] And, and you’re kind of focused on, you know, what you’re going to, be posting, but then a trend could come up and kind of throw a wrench in it. so how, how would you, You know, tell creators to either plan for the trends and then more importantly, I think, how do you actually hit a trend but staying in your brand’s unique voice without deviating from what you want to be perceived as?

[00:19:29] Wave Wyld: Yeah, I don’t think you have to worry about, you know, staying in your brand voice because the whole idea with these trends is that you want to adapt it to your niche, your brand, what you are known for. So it can kind of stay on brand and you still do the trend. That is the whole point. Like consumers and viewers, they want to see how a brand puts their own spin on it.

[00:19:52] So it’s, you know, not about, you know, TikTok’s not about. Creating or curating an aesthetic image. It’s not the highlight reel for Instagram, right? It’s more about being real. so that’s what I would say, you know, about, you know, if they’re losing their brand identity. I can’t even remember what the first part of the question was, about the trends.

[00:20:16] Conor Brown: About like, planning for trends, right? Especially when you have like a marketing or content calendar.

[00:20:21] Wave Wyld: Yeah, I think it’s important when you have a content strategy or marketing calendar that it is not set in stone. I always say this, your content plan is not concrete. It’s not set in stone. You do need to be a bit flexible with it because when a trend comes up, you do want to jump on that trend, especially if you think it’s going to really help the market.

[00:20:41] Leverage your brand. so, you know, it’s just, it’s just not as concrete as maybe other platforms. And that is just the way that it is with TikTok, right? You have to stay on top of things.

[00:20:54] Jeff Sieh: another question on, on trends, like, like how many is too much? Like, Abby says, how do you stay authentic and genuine when participating in a lot of trends? Cause she says I should probably, she’s my daughter. She says I probably should do a dance, which probably is not going to happen. Not

[00:21:08] Conor Brown: not do, you also shouldn’t put that video. all

[00:21:11] Jeff Sieh: how, like, When you, is there a number you should try to, to hit, or is there like you hit, I mean, that’s the question is like, how do you stay authentic with, with those trends when you’re doing a lot of them?

[00:21:23] Conor Brown: see

[00:21:24] Wave Wyld: yeah, okay, so I just want to say that there is a really fun, cool trend right now and it’s to the New Order song, Blue Monday. It would be perfect with your daughter. just search it on TikTok, you’ll see what I mean. I am a huge, huge New Order fan, so it almost hurts me. to see it being used in a trend this way.

[00:21:42] But it’s a really funny trend. It would work perfect with your daughter. So go just check it out. But I like to think of trends, you know, as the top of the funnel content. They are really great for visibility and brand awareness. Yes, you don’t want to do trends so much that people, you know, don’t even understand what you do.

[00:22:02] I think I went to an account the other day and this woman said in the bio that, I don’t know, she was some sort of like maybe a divorce coach, but then none of her content related to divorce coaching at all. It was like trends and funny dance videos. And I was like, what, what are you doing?You know, but brands definitely want to leverage them.

[00:22:23] They’re that top of funnel content for visibility and brand awareness. So, you know, you want to have a good variety of content, different types of content. Educational, like the hacks and the how tos and the demos. And then, you know, you also want to have the trends. and maybe you want to have some UGC content in there as well.

[00:22:43] So a really good variety of content is what you want to have.

[00:22:47] Jeff Sieh: So you mentioned, user generated content. So how do you, how do you use that? cause I know you, I mean, you have a section on it even on your website. So can you explain to people what that is and specifically inside of TikTok?

[00:22:59] Wave Wyld: Yeah, so there’s a lot of creators who call themselves UGC creators, user generated content creators, they make content, specifically for brands to use, short form videos to use all over the short form video platforms. So, they run as a business, they hire themselves out, and they’re making ads and videos for these brands.

[00:23:19] Brands they are not necessarily posting them to their account like an influencer would so they’re not Leveraging their own audience or their own personal brand. They are making videos for brands So this is very very common a lot of bigger brands tap into this and this is one of you know The tough things I see with bigger brands coming to TikTok is kind of figuring out how to what are they gonna post and who’s going to post it?

[00:23:45] The big, really popular brands have a social media manager who runs the account, who creates the content. You know, we’ve probably all seen Duolingo. The social media manager of that account is famous for being the social media manager and running that account. so you need to figure out like, if you’re a brand trying to get on TikTok, do you have, you know, a social media manager, a marketing team?

[00:24:07] Who’s going to create the content? What is, what, is that going to look like? Are you going to incorporate some UGC content if you have the budget to pay people for, to make videos? so I hope that answers the question and that, that makes sense.

[00:24:20] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It’s a little different because yeah, I know, a lot of times user generated content was like, like for Instagram, you try to get people to take pictures of your product and then you would use it and post it on your feed. This is more almost like a, a paid brand ambassador, like a con you’re paying them for content creation.

[00:24:35] Yeah.

[00:24:36] Wave Wyld: It’s definitely changed. The definition of UGC content has changed over the past few years. whereas brands were trying to get like actual real customers who use the products to endorse it through some sort of contest or challenge. whereas now it is more like you can hire people. So it’s not, it’s all made to look authentic.

[00:24:58] However, it’s not necessarily. Truly authentic because that person like did not actually go to the store, buy the product, use it. Maybe they’re actually just kind of creating ads for brands.

[00:25:11] Jeff Sieh: Do those, those people who create the content, are they, are they Usually influencers first, and then this happens to them that where they get paid to do this user generated content.

[00:25:20] Wave Wyld: Sometimes, but this is actually a really, this is crazy. This is a really popular career choice for Gen Z, you know, as a side hustle to make a little bit of extra money in university or college, that sort of thing. It is really, really popular with the younger generation. And I think it’s because they just have such a natural ability to create short form video for us, older people, us older folks.

[00:25:45] It can be quite challenging. We did not learn these skills in a marketing class in high school, how to create short form videos that grab attention and sell a product, any of that kind of stuff. It seems very intuitive to them. They grew up with cell phones and cameras and being on cameras. So, creating short form is definitely a skill and a practice.

[00:26:05] and it’s just, it’s just much easier. And, and that’s, I think why there’s so many younger, Content creators doing this for as their full time business a full time job. That is the dream to be a full time content creator I see this all the time travel the world have your own flexibility Become a full time content creator.

[00:26:24] So there’s a lot of young people selling that dream as well And you know, there’s a whole industry built around coaching and becoming full time content creators

[00:26:33] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I totally agree. Gary says, I could totally see Jeff and Connor, doing a Blue Monday trend video. Well, don’t hold your breath there, Gary. But, so, and yeah, Gary says, it’s definitely a skill. Short form requires a lot of short clips and cuts and, interesting angles and a catchy dance. Yeah. So it is a, I totally get it, Gary.

[00:26:51] It is a skill set, that, it, it’s, it takes a while to pick up on, I think. one of the questions I do want to, before we kind of move on to some other things is, how do businesses figure out which TikTok trends have staying power versus ones that like, are like, they’re a trend for a day and then it’s gone.

[00:27:09] Is there a way to kind of, that you kind of can suss out what, you know, that’s going to be a good one. It’s going to last for a little bit. You should kind of, you know, you should probably do it for your brand.

[00:27:18] Wave Wyld: I would say first of all, trends don’t have a lot of staying power on TikTok. They last maybe a week at most. You will know it’s blowing up if you see it all over your For You page, like the New Order dance. You will know if it translates to Instagram. I’m now seeing that trend all over Instagram Reels, the Blue Monday dance where you fight each other and, and, and bop to the beat.

[00:27:41] so that’s how you know, like you get it, you got to get on that one ASAP because it’s currently trending. Yeah,

[00:27:49] Jeff Sieh: it takes me a week to even think of an idea, but that’s, that’s interesting.

[00:27:53] Conor Brown: At first I was going to say, I don’t think we should do the blue order, but now if it’s me fighting Jeff, we might have

[00:27:58] Jeff Sieh: Might have to do that. Yeah.

[00:28:00] Conor Brown: So, you talked about Duolingo, which I think is probably one of, if not the most famous, you know, TikTok success story. We all know the bird, we all know the social media manager who kind of created that and just exploded on TikTok with all of that.

[00:28:15] But Wave, could you? Have any other examples that kind of come top to mind when, when it comes to brands and businesses being successful, who have capitalized on, on these trends.

[00:28:27] Wave Wyld: Ryanair is another one I love to watch. They really make the airplane the main character in all of their videos. They do a ton of trending content, some promotional. They incorporate different video formats. They, they use the photo carousels, they use green screen a lot, a lot of effects, so it’s very adapted to TikTok culture.

[00:28:49] Scrub Daddy is another one, just hilarious and sometimes downright borderline inappropriate type of stuff going on. but very funny. Crocs is another one. They do a really good job with collaborations, trends, humor, Washington Post, they kill it with the skits. You’ve probably seen some of those. A lot of the beauty brands are really good, like, Glow Recipe is killing it with the photo carousels right now, and using a lot of that type of content.

[00:29:19] So overall, I’d say all of these really, not only capitalize trends but adapt their content to the culture of TikTok.

[00:29:28] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. That’s, that’s, that’s some homework for all our viewers to go and check some of those out if you’re not on TikTok, very much. So that’s, that’s really great. So what would you say, Wave, to, and I, and I know you probably get this all the time, to marketers who are really skeptical about jumping on TikTok trends for fear of appearing on TikTok?

[00:29:46] Inauthentic. Like, you know, Connor made fun of me being the ick factor, like, you know, cringy or whatever. I know that’s a fear for a lot of people. Like they, they’re scared. They’re going to look like an idiot or be inauthentic to their brand or their company or whatever. So what do you tell marketers who say that?

[00:30:03] Wave Wyld: well, I’m just gonna say it. If you’re a marketer who thinks that trends are inauthentic, then that is a sign that’s telling me you don’t know how to use trends strategically in a content strategy. because the most The most popular way that brands use trends are to make a relatable joke, to create that connection.

[00:30:22] And I believe that there’s a lot of people who think that’s the only way to use them. But there are more strategic ways. I actually teach five ways. Relatability is one. educating is another way to use trends. sharing your brand values and mission. Telling story. And the last one, the most important, my favorite, is for sales.

[00:30:42] Using trends to promote your products or services. That is like the best way, best way to use them because it comes across as more subtle and adapted to the TikTok culture.

[00:30:53] Jeff Sieh: All right. So this next section is going to be a lot of fun because I know a lot of people have questions about this and it has to do with leveraging short form video, but I also want to do another big shout out to our friends over at Ecamm who helped sponsor the show. You can actually use Ecamm to create vertical content.

[00:31:07] I’ve done that before for shorts and stories and all sorts of things. You can do it, you know, right in your, you know, on your Mac workstation and you can find out more about Ecamm if you go to ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Use code Jeff 15 to save 15%. On your first, order. One of the things, if you haven’t used it before, it’s a little hack.

[00:31:24] If you buy, if you know you’re gonna do the trial, and if you like it, use that code to like get the yearly plan. ’cause you’ll save significant amount of money. So don’t just waste it on a monthly thing, do the whole thing. So anyway, so leveraging short form video. Regardless if you wanna get on TikTok or not short form video.

[00:31:42] Is here to stay. it’s, it’s not going anywhere. I remember the arguments of like, people were just so hacked off that they had to turn their phone. They, they liked the, the hor, you know, the, the old way, the, you know, the 16 by nine. can, and, and one of the things is, it’s storytelling. Gary mentioned it earlier.

[00:31:57] It’s a skill being able to, to tell a story in that short amount of time. So how can you like, talk a little bit deeper? Wave on how storytelling, particularly through the video. And then you have really mentioned photo carousels kind of has changed the game for brands on TikTok. So can you tell how you can use the, especially the, the photo carousels to, to storytell on TikTok?

[00:32:21] Wave Wyld: I’m a big fan of storytelling. You can do storytelling through lots of different short form video formats. Photo carousels are a really easy one. I’ve talked about this in a recent summit. they’re easy because, you know, a social media manager, someone on your marketing team can create them without having to show up on camera.

[00:32:40] They can be used for education, promoting products, all those things. But the one thing I want to point out about photo carousels is that they are not the same as Instagram carousels. All right, on Instagram Paracels, it’s really common we see these, you know, aesthetic designed Canva graphics. On TikTok, they are more of the selfie style or random photos on your iPhone, where you put text on screen and music.

[00:33:07] so when it comes to storytelling, it’s really common. You can just use them. You know, you can, I think, post up to 35 of these . TikTok actually recommends at least four to six of these, of the photos and use them to tell a story. so I’m fortunately not able to share examples here. but one of them that I saw that was really powerful was by Jim Shark, the founder.

[00:33:34] And these founder stories are becoming more, more popular. now it was on his personal account. I, his name has been something. I’m sorry. I can’t remember the last one right now, but if you even just search, TikTok has amazing search capabilities. Just go search like founder of Gymshark and his. His account will come up and I think it was a pinned video with like 6 million views and it was a photo carrousel telling his story right of how he founded Jimshark.

[00:33:59] So founder stories very, very popular. That’s a great way to adapt it to TikTok culture.

[00:34:05] Jeff Sieh: you mentioned real quick, kind of a follow up question, the, that they’re different than Instagram carousels. So can you explain what’s different about them and how you can use them maybe differently than you would on Instagram?

[00:34:18] Wave Wyld: Well, they’re different because, again, you know, they’re more authentic, right? They’re just kind of, you know, Random photos. A lot of times in the photo carousels, the photos that you’re, you’re showing don’t really have to, unless you’re telling a story, but otherwise they don’t really have to make sense, right?

[00:34:34] Related to what, what it is of the video. There’s a lot of photo carousel trends right now as well. so, you know, on Instagram, like I said, they’re more aesthetic and curated, you know, often, you know, these Canva graphic style things, whereas on TikTok, they’re random photos. So even, you know, if you were to go look at the account Glow Recipe, I noticed they’re using a lot of photo carousels.

[00:34:58] If you look at the photos, they’re not professional. images of their products. They’re kind of look like they shot with an iPhone and they’re like explaining in a photo carousel the new collection or how to use this product and it’s just text on screen with a bunch of photos. So that’s how they feel more real and authentic.

[00:35:19] Mm

[00:35:20] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. So that, I mean, honestly, that can, you know, free you up a little bit that you don’t have to feel like, I know a lot of people struggle with Instagram because they’re like, I’ve got to get this special aesthetic and set up ring lights. And if I can just use stuff on my camera roll of my dog, well, then maybe I should try some of that.

[00:35:35] Conor Brown: When we’re talking about, you know, posting these things and trying these things, we obviously want to see success, right? And we want to know that what we’re putting our time into is is giving us a result. We’re seeing some sort of success metric. So to that end, Wave, measuring success on TikTok.

[00:35:52] Beyond just, you post something and it gets views and it gets likes, what are some things and how should business, I guess, measure their own success on TikTok?

[00:36:03] Wave Wyld: Yeah, I think, you know, it depends on your goals, you know, I think a brand like Ryanair or Duolingo, brand awareness is probably their biggest thing, so their metrics are more based on views or profile visits or impressions. if conversion is your goal, it can be a little bit harder to track, you know, organically without using paid ads, but you could try doing some sort of promotional codes on organic traffic.

[00:36:31] to test out those conversions. a lot of times I hear from business owners and brands that they see a spike, huge spike in sales after a viral video and then it drops down. so you know, it’s not, you don’t always have that consistency, but those, again, it comes back to the goals and what you’re looking for.

[00:36:49] One thing I do want to recommend is look at your TikTok analytics. I can’t believe how many people I meet and like never look at their TikTok analytics. It’s like, it’s all about the data. Like what it tells you, it is a goldmine of information in there. It tells you so much good stuff about how your video is performing and you can use that to tweak and change your content.

[00:37:12] Jeff Sieh: did you have a follow up question, Connor?

[00:37:13] Conor Brown: No, I love that. I’ve used it before, especially to see what my audience actually is, right? Because you might have in your head, Oh, my audience is this persona, right? And then you look at the data and you’re like, Whoa, was I wrong? But that can also help you create content that will resonate more with your unique audience.

[00:37:32] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point. so I’m really big on repurposing. I love repurposing content. I love to put it out everywhere so people can watch it wherever they want to. So, can you actually repurpose trends off of TikTok to use on other platforms? Or do they not, like, they don’t Play well together. What are your thoughts on, like, you see something on TikTok and you’re like, oh, I’m going to try that for YouTube Shorts.

[00:37:55] Does it work? Does it not? I’d love to know your thoughts.

[00:37:58] Wave Wyld: Yeah, absolutely. You can repurpose. I will say, you know, when Reels first launched, it was pretty much a copy of TikTok. Over the past few years, I feel like it has, it’s created its own culture. and video styles on the app. So some of the trends will translate over to Instagram and some of them won’t. So it all just kind of depends on the trend.

[00:38:27] Certain types of trends are more popular on some platforms and, you know, Instagram even kind of comes up with its own trends. So you can certainly try and experiment. As for shorts, I hope, you know, there’s nobody here from YouTube listening. I’m really sorry to say this, but, Shorts is pretty much a copy of TikTok.

[00:38:45] Most, like, 90 percent of creators are just reposting their videos. Shorts is really trying, though. They are trying. They are pushing. They’re, like, working with a lot of, artists. so TikTok is a platform that allows artists to create platform specific trends. A lot of them just, unfortunately, are dance trends, and it feels very 2020 over there.

[00:39:05] because, you know, dancing was really ba big in 2019, 2020 on TikTok. You don’t see it very much anymore unless it’s a specific dance account. but they are trying, they’re creating all these trends, working with artists and creating dance trends. and then other than that, a lot of the TikTok trends just get copied.

[00:39:23] over there, as well. So I don’t think Shorts has its own unique culture. That could totally change if TikTok goes away, but unfortunately the Shorts app just does not have the same capabilities as the TikTok in app video editor or the Reels in app video editor.

[00:39:43] Jeff Sieh: I would want to follow up that you don’t think, you don’t see anything wrong with posting on other platforms your content that you created for TikTok. For example, so I know I’m a big, I started my whole thing on Pinterest and I went to your Pinterest account and you seem to be repurposing a lot of your stuff because I know it, long term traffic, it’s really great over there, but is there anything wrong for repurposing your content?

[00:40:03] Does it hurt your account in any, any way?

[00:40:06] Wave Wyld: I don’t think so. I would just say again, and I think I mentioned this earlier on is that it works for some people and it doesn’t work for others. I have seen a lot of students who repurpose their stuff to Instagram Reels and it just completely Flops and then other people it like it does more on reels than it does on TikTok.

[00:40:27] So you have to experiment and kind of see what works for you. I did experiment with repurposing too. And those Pinterest videos you saw are like super old, because I have not had a luck with that. A lot of luck with repurposing my own content because it’s so TikTok specific and I feel like right now the platforms are at war.

[00:40:46] Instagram doesn’t push out anything that’s like about TikTok. The TikTok tips. Shorts doesn’t really seem to. So I actually have to create more content that is more in general short form video tips. And I sometimes just don’t always have the means to do that or the energy in creating more content for other platforms.

[00:41:08] So, at the end of the day, you have to experiment. I see a lot of people do it, and I personally think it kind of looks really bad. I see like a lot of, you know, big Instagram influencers or something. They’re reposting it to TikTok, and I can see it’s just reposts, and they’re putting no effort or energy into that platform.

[00:41:26] You know, we’re always telling people you don’t want to post and ghost, so, You know, this is key on TikTok. Like if you’re just posting and ghosting, you’re probably not going to do that. Well, you need to engage, build community. That’s hard to do across all your platforms. So, it’s very rare. I see repurposing work, you know, for a creator across, you know, three or four platforms.

[00:41:50] Conor Brown: know, I think we, we, we think of TikTok a lot as we get that engagement when we entertain. It’s a tainting platform, but wave, you, you said, you know, time and time again, how educational content can be highly engaging on TikTok. I think TikTok even had an ad series on TV that was like, Oh, where’d you see it?

[00:42:09] I saw that on TikTok. I learned that on TikTok. Like you hear that all the time. So. How can brands identify these, you know, unique educational opportunities that they can create TikTok content about to boost their engagement?

[00:42:23] Wave Wyld: For sure, you want to check out this new tool in TikTok that was released mid March. It’s called the Creator Search Insights Tool. All you have to do is, in the search bar, type that out. And then it will pull up a little picture and a button. Tap on that. What it’s going to do is show you what people are searching for on TikTok.

[00:42:48] And it will show you related to your niche. It will give you topics and a percentage of how many people are searching this. So TikTok search on TikTok is amazing. The capabilities of the platform blows me away. And it has been building up for the past few years. So they just relaunched this tool. You can actually, one thing else I love about it, is your analytics have been updated with search traffic.

[00:43:14] I can now see which videos are bringing me traffic from people searching certain topics. It’s, and it tells you where you’re ranking, how many clicks and impressions you’re getting. So you want to check out this tool, see what, you know, it also has some other settings where you can look and see what your followers are searching for, what’s been searched for in your, your niche, trending topics in your niche.

[00:43:36] It is absolutely amazing. That’s going to help you, right, create content. Determine like what educational content should you be making that’s going to answer their questions and solve their problems. So check it out. Create our search insights tool.

[00:43:53] Jeff Sieh: That’s an awesome tip. Yeah. I’m going to have to check that out. Yes. I haven’t, everybody’s just like, okay, write that down. So, in this, in, in, Chris Stone said, yes, social media is social, great point on not posting and ghosting. That, regardless of any, whatever platform you’re on, that is super, super helpful, yeah.

[00:44:10] And, and then, Gary says, yes, one needs a set of time to work it in. Yeah, that’s the thing, is trying to figure out what works and, and how to do it the, the best way possible. I, I think we all feel that pain there, Gary. So. And this kind of, it kind of rolls in from what Gary’s comment is, Wave, I kind of want to talk about, you know, content authenticity versus production quality.

[00:44:31] So, in your experience, what matters more on TikTok? Is it authenticity or is this high production quality and the amount of content that you’re throwing out there? What works the best?

[00:44:43] Wave Wyld: Authenticity all the way. Now I’m not saying you can’t make high production quality content. You absolutely can and there are people who are successful with that. but the general vibe, vibe of the app is being real, being in the moment. This is why you see so many viral videos of people sitting in their car, just talking to the camera, talking, you know, telling a story that of something that just happened to them.

[00:45:12] Or, you know, you see people lying in bed, like it’s, it’s not, it’s not curated in that way. People resonate. With that type of authenticity and I think this is gonna be more and more important as more AI is brought into social media. I feel I’m totally pro AI. My husband has an AI business and I love AI tools and experimenting with all of them.

[00:45:36] However, I don’t use it in a lot of my social media content. I Just feel like it’s not authentic enough. I have used it for I know I’m going off on a tangent here But I used it for like some welcome videos and things in my courses But there was one time I wanted to do like an upsell on a funnel and I was like I could just do this with HeyJen and and it would be so easy and then I thought I can’t I don’t think people will Buy the upsell if they see my avatar just talk, you know with the short one minute video talking about it so, yeah, more and more of that coming in, I think people are going to push back and look for more connection with personality and community and connecting with real people because there’s just a lot of distrust and not knowing what’s real and what’s not.

[00:46:22] Jeff Sieh: and we’ve talked about this on this show before too, is because of all this AI stuff, people may become a little less trustworthy. And that’s why I love live shows and podcasts, because there’s something very, very authentic about being in somebody’s ear, you know, being able to pull up questions like Justin Stout, who owns an amazing AI company, Magi.

[00:46:40] Did someone say AI? So he always chimes in when we say AI. But like AI can’t do that right now. Like they’re not going to be able to pull up a comment. So. I, once again, and this is me on my high horse too, is the more

[00:46:51] Wave Wyld: getting better and

[00:46:53] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Yeah. So I think in the same way with TikTok, like there’s going to be those.

[00:46:59] AI generated TikToks eventually, or if they’re probably already right now, but

[00:47:02] Wave Wyld: They’re already there.

[00:47:04] Jeff Sieh: but they’re probably not gonna move the

[00:47:05] Wave Wyld: to interrupt

[00:47:05] Jeff Sieh: Like, no, no, but I bet they’re not going to move the needle. Like you getting on there. And like you said, telling a story.

[00:47:10] Wave Wyld: They don’t and I have looked at this. There are a lot of these accounts doing AI generated content and they don’t perform very well. There’s only one account I’ve seen that is absolutely crushing it with AI and that’s because he makes these like AI, he tells stories. And it’s like a little movie and he makes these like really crazy mythical creatures and they’re short little stories.

[00:47:32] So yeah, that’s working. It’s storytelling. but a lot of the AI, other AI generated content I see there is just not performing.

[00:47:41] Jeff Sieh: So final question, this is for my daughter. I’ll bring it up. And we kind of mentioned it a little bit and we kind of talked about this before the show, before we hit, hit go, but what are your thoughts on TikTok lives? You mentioned, you, you know, you know, cause she, Abby says it feels like the wild west on there.

[00:47:55] and so what are your thoughts? Is that something? That you should, can you just do lives on TikTok and that’s it? Or should you have a mixture of TikTok content and then do some lives? What are your thoughts on, you know, this whole wild west of TikTok lives?

[00:48:09] Wave Wyld: There are creators who are only live streaming. However, I would recommend creating content as well. Live streaming, it is the wild west on TikTok. You will see everything. There’s all kinds of different types of things. Things that are kind of more comparable to Twitch, like the video games and things like that.

[00:48:27] There’s these battles and stuff, but for business owners, very, very powerful to live stream on a regular basis. Be consistent with it. It is the best way to build community. It is a great way to funnel people, get them into your funnel, whether you’re promoting, you know, an event like a webinar, getting people to sign up.

[00:48:47] Your lead magnet, a Facebook group, whatever it is you’re doing. It’s also good for selling. I see a lot of product based people selling on TikTok. So there’s just so many different ways that you can use it.

[00:49:01] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Connor, do you have any follow up questions? I mean, okay.

[00:49:05] Conor Brown: awesome,

[00:49:06] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, yeah, it’s great stuff. This is, once again, I have so many things that I have to go back and take notes on because I can’t take notes because I’m pressing buttons. But, Wave, I wanted to let people know where they can find you. You mentioned some courses that you have.

[00:49:19] The floor is yours. Tell people where they can find you and what you got going on.

[00:49:23] Wave Wyld: Yes, you can find me at my name at Waywild on all the platforms. It’s It’s the same. You can check out my website, wavewild. com. I do have a really great guide, nine short form video formats that you can make in 10 minutes or less. If you’re new to content creation, you want to check that out. It’s linked in all of my social media profiles.

[00:49:45] And I also have a membership program, monthly membership that has 50 plus trends per week, monthly masterclasses, so much all dedicated to TikTok.

[00:49:56] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And I will, I downloaded her guide. It is amazing, so you want to make sure to check that out. And it’s spelled W A V E, W A V E, wyld. com, WaveWild, go check that out. Make sure you sign up for that free, download of the, I think, was it nine you said? Nine, short form?

[00:50:13] Wave Wyld: Nine short form video formats that you can make in 10 minutes or less.

[00:50:17] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it’s really, really cool. So go check that out. thank you guys so much for watching. I really appreciate, you know, Gary is always helping us out saying, remember to thumbs up and to share. We appreciate Gary for doing that. And he loves your name too. he loves the name WaveWild and

[00:50:32] Wave Wyld: is my real name.

[00:50:34] Jeff Sieh: It is.

[00:50:34] That’s

[00:50:35] Wave Wyld: that a

[00:50:35] Jeff Sieh: yeah, that’s really, really cool. And then Angel says, great info. Thank you so much. Thank you guys for watching. make sure if you, that you share this out with people who you think would find it helpful. We are also a podcast. You could find that and just go to your favorite podcast player and type in Social Media News Live.

[00:50:49] And we’d love it if you subscribe and share that out. And with that, we’ll see you guys next week. Thanks so much for watching. Bye now.

Ideas in Overdrive: Smart Creating with ADHD

We’re excited to have Ian Anderson Gray with us to discuss “Ideas in Overdrive: Smart Creating with ADHD.”

Join us as we discuss Ian’s insights on why so many entrepreneurs and creatives are powered by ADHD, debunk myths surrounding the condition, and uncover the unique challenges and strengths it brings to business and creativity. We’ll also explore practical advice for implementing routines and maintaining motivation, alongside the personal journey that led Ian to start the Smart ADHD Podcast.

Don’t miss Ian’s essential tips for anyone looking to harness their ADHD for creative and business success! 🚀


Navigating ADHD in Entrepreneurship and Creativity: Insights from Ian Anderson Gray

Hey there, friends! Jeff Sieh here, and today we’re venturing into a topic that resonates deeply with many of us: ADHD, especially within the fast-paced realms of entrepreneurship and creativity. In this episode, we’re joined by a dear friend and fellow creator, Ian Anderson Gray. Ian, who navigates the waters of ADHD himself, shares his personal journey and the unique insights he’s gleaned from both the challenges and the advantages ADHD has presented in his creative and entrepreneurial endeavors.
Our conversation doesn’t aim to romanticize ADHD as a wellspring of creativity, but rather, to open a dialogue about the real experiences of those with ADHD—highlighting the nuanced ways it influences thought processes, productivity, and innovation. Our aim? To offer insights and strategies that help individuals with ADHD navigate their paths, ensuring they thrive in their creative and entrepreneurial endeavors while embracing their authentic selves. Join us as we explore the impact of ADHD in creativity and business, highlighting the importance of understanding, support, and adaptive strategies in unleashing potential.

Decoding ADHD: More Than Just a Label

In our conversation with Ian, we dove into the essence of ADHD. Together, we unpacked ADHD beyond the stereotypes, exploring its core aspects and the profound impact it has on those who experience it. ADHD, or Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, is often misunderstood, and Ian’s insights shed light on the reality behind the label.

ADHD is more than just about having trouble paying attention or being overly active; it’s a complex neurodevelopmental disorder that affects attention variability, hyperactivity, and emotional regulation. Ian eloquently described ADHD not as an attention deficit, but rather an attention dysregulation, where focusing intensely on passions is possible, yet directing attention to less stimulating tasks feels nearly impossible. This nuanced understanding challenges the common misconception that ADHD is simply about lacking focus or discipline.

Hyperactivity, another pillar of ADHD, extends beyond physical restlessness. Ian shared how for many, including himself, hyperactivity manifests in the mind—constant thoughts, ideas, and internal conversations creating a whirlwind that’s both a source of creativity and exhaustion. This inner hyperactivity is often invisible to the outside world, contributing to the misunderstandings surrounding ADHD.

The challenge of emotional regulation emerges as a particularly significant aspect of ADHD. Ian opened up about the intensity of emotions that come with ADHD—feeling everything deeply, from the highs of joy to the lows of frustration. This emotional depth, while a strength in empathy and connection, can also lead to overwhelm and burnout if not navigated carefully.

By sharing his journey, Ian not only provided a clearer picture of what ADHD entails but also challenged the common stereotypes and misconceptions. ADHD is not a barrier to creativity or success; instead, it’s a different way of interacting with the world. Understanding, empathy, and tailored strategies are key to harnessing the unique strengths it offers, turning potential challenges into opportunities for growth and innovation.

The Prevalence of ADHD Among Entrepreneurs and Creatives

In our in-depth conversation with Ian Anderson Gray, we honed in on some intriguing aspects of ADHD, particularly its prevalence among entrepreneurs and creatives, the distinction between mere distractibility and ADHD, and its influence on the creative process. Now, before we get into the nitty-gritty, let me toss out a quick reminder: we’re about to unpack some pretty insightful stuff on ADHD, but remember, this isn’t medical advice. Always reach out to a medical professional for diagnoses and personalized guidance. Alright, with that said, let’s get to it!

Ian illuminated an intriguing connection between ADHD and the thriving culture of creativity and entrepreneurship, suggesting that the entrepreneurial and creative spheres naturally attract individuals with ADHD. This attraction is deeply rooted in characteristics like divergent thinking, a fancy term for the ability to connect the dots in unique and innovative ways. He also points out that entrepreneurs often have the autonomy to craft their own schedules, which is like gold for the ADHD brain, allowing them to capitalize on those bursts of hyper-focus when they’re really feeling the flow.

The Influence of ADHD on the Creative Process:

Ian opened up about how, despite its hurdles, ADHD has this incredible way of fueling creativity and innovation. When it comes to brainstorming and ideation, that’s where the ADHD brain can shine, often seeing solutions and possibilities that others might miss. This unique cognitive wiring, Ian suggests, fuels his ability to think outside the box and pursue ideas with a distinct curiosity, leading to his most impactful work. Whether it’s speaking at Social Media Marketing World or exploring innovative blogging topics, Ian attributes these creative ventures to the ADHD-driven desire to do things differently. His journey underscores the significant role ADHD plays in fostering a creative and innovative mindset, particularly when he allows himself to follow his curiosity, even if it means occasionally veering off the conventional path.

More Than Just a Wandering Mind: ADHD vs. Being Easily Distracted

Diving into the heart of ADHD, Ian Anderson Gray shared a revelation that hit close to home for many of us. Getting diagnosed was a game-changer for him, a huge sigh of relief that washed away loads of guilt. When he opened up about it, though, he found a common thread in the reactions: “But don’t we all procrastinate? Aren’t we all a bit scatterbrained at times?” That’s when it clicked for Ian—the idea that ADHD, much like height, varies from person to person. Everyone’s got their struggles, sure, but ADHD layers on its unique set of challenges. He brought up Rick Green, a comedian with ADHD, who compared it to everyone having height—some are just taller than others. 

Ian’s take on getting the ADHD label really struck a chord. His analogy: Realizing you’re short-sighted opens the door to getting glasses, and suddenly, the world comes into focus. For Ian, being diagnosed with ADHD was a lot like that. It wasn’t about slapping on a label for the sake of it, but about gaining clarity. That moment of realization—that there’s a reason things feel harder, that you’re not lazy or forgetful but navigating the world with a unique set of challenges—it’s liberating. Suddenly, there’s a path forward. Whether that path involves medication, therapy, or just strategies to play to your strengths, it’s about leveraging that label not as a limit but as a lens. A lens that brings the world into focus, allowing you to move through it with a bit more understanding and a lot less guilt.

Navigating the Hurdles: Strategies for Success

Living with ADHD can feel a bit like trying to steer a sailboat under constantly shifting winds. Just when you think you’ve mastered the direction, a new gust comes along, challenging your course and demanding adaptability. It’s in these moments that having insights from folks like Ian Anderson Gray becomes invaluable. Together, Ian and I unpacked some common challenges that folks with ADHD face, like maintaining sharp focus, boosting that sometimes shaky self-esteem, and crossing the finish line on projects. But don’t fret; we also shared some top-notch strategies that Ian has personally found effective. 

Improving Self-Esteem with ADHD: Strategies and Insights

First up, let’s chat about self-esteem. Ever feel like your inner critic grabbed a megaphone, relentlessly highlighting every slip-up? We all know staying self-aware is crucial for taming that inner dialogue, though, let’s be real, it’s often easier said than done. Ian shared a brilliant tip from his ADHD coach that really stands out: why not give that internal voice a name? Picture this—it’s not just any voice; Ian describes his as a well-meaning librarian. This librarian is loaded with books, eager to prepare and protect, but sometimes overthinks to the point of imagining dire outcomes for relatively safe situations. By personifying this voice—the librarian in Ian’s case—you shift from battling an abstract sense of anxiety to dealing with a character whose intentions are good but who perhaps lacks a bit of perspective. 

This isn’t just a quirky trick; it’s a powerful way to gain insight and control. By personifying that nagging voice, you can engage with it more objectively, imagining this internal critic not as an enemy but as an overzealous guardian you can reason with, negotiate with, and even humor. This approach transforms an inner hurdle into something you can manage, maybe even laugh at.

Ian also recommends chatting with folks in your life to see yourself more clearly. Drawing on perspectives from those around you can help identify and list your true strengths (try actually writing them down), countering the often critical internal narrative. He also highlights how crucial managing sleep and fatigue is, especially given the non-stop nature of an ADHD brain. Adding to this, the benefits of regular exercise, noting how it helps manage ADHD symptoms by boosting your mood and focus, thanks to those feel-good endorphins. These combined efforts—embracing community insights, prioritizing rest, and staying active—lay the groundwork for improved self-esteem and overall well-being, all while navigating life with ADHD.

Smart ADHD Tips for Maintaining Focus

We also tackled the common struggle of maintaining focus. It’s not just about willpower; it’s about knowing what makes your brain tick. Ian emphasized the power of knowing yourself—your peaks and valleys of focus, what lights up your creativity, and recognizing those moments when you’re in the zone. It’s about creating an environment where those peaks are maximized. It’s like catching the perfect wave for surfing; you’ve got to know when to paddle out.

Ian brought up this fascinating concept from Dr. Tamara Rosier’s book, “Your Brain’s Not Broken,” where she talks about how our activities fall into four quadrants. Picture this: at the top, you’ve got the stuff that pumps you up—things that are both high stimulation and fun, like the thrill of riding roller coasters. But then, there’s the high-stimulation stuff that’s not so fun, like redoing a presentation because your dog decided it looked tasty the night before a big conference.

On the flip side, you’ve got your chill activities. Think low stimulation and fun, like kicking back and binge-watching Netflix. And then there are those tasks that are low stimulation and definitely not fun—bookkeeping and taxes, anyone? Ian pointed out how we tend to procrastinate on these less exciting tasks until they become urgent, forcing our brains into high gear to get them done.

Understanding these quadrants can be a game-changer. It’s a smart way to hack your ADHD brain into doing stuff without turning everything into a last-minute panic.

Crossing Project Finish Lines with ADHD

While the word ‘routine’ might make you think of a straitjacket, Ian’s approach is all about flexibility. It’s setting up structures that give you freedom within boundaries. Maybe it’s dedicating mornings to creative brainstorming because that’s when your brain is most alive, or blocking out quiet time in the evening for tasks that require more focus.

Ian also highlighted the importance of routine or rituals in creating a stable foundation. Establishing consistent habits, especially around transition times (like starting the workday or winding down for bed), can help signal to your brain what’s expected, reducing the cognitive load and easing those transitions.

Then, there’s the strategy of task breakdown and prioritization: Breaking down overwhelming projects into bite-sized, manageable tasks was another gem. It’s about not looking at the mountain as a whole but focusing on the first few steps. Prioritizing these mini-tasks based on urgency and energy levels helps in tackling them without getting overwhelmed.

Time Mastery: Tips for Effective Time Management and Goal Setting

Ian shared valuable insights into the unique challenges of managing time and setting goals with ADHD, emphasizing the importance of flexibility and realistic planning. He highlighted the struggle with dopamine—the reward chemical that’s harder to come by for those with ADHD—making it challenging to tackle a list of tasks that often turns out to be more complex than anticipated. Ian’s solution? Break down big projects into manageable tasks, use to-do apps for organization, and consider support from a virtual assistant familiar with ADHD. He advised tackling daunting tasks in short bursts and rewarding yourself afterward, turning a potentially overwhelming day into a series of achievable steps.

A cheerful young woman in a blue top is holding up several small hourglass timers with different colored sands. She has a joyful expression, and her hair is styled in braids. These timers are often used as a visual aid for time management, which can be particularly helpful for individuals with ADHD.

Extra Tip: My daughter (and employee) also diagnosed with ADHD, does all her work and school from home. She’s found these cool timers on Amazon that really help her stay focused and keep track of time.

Moreover, Ian encouraged dreaming big despite the hurdles. He reminded us that, with the right strategies, even those lofty goals are attainable. Reflecting on progress rather than getting caught up in comparison offers a healthier perspective on growth and achievement. This approach not only helps in managing day-to-day responsibilities but also in realizing long-term ambitions, underscoring the power of acknowledging how far you’ve come instead of where you think you should be.

Tech to the Rescue: Digital Tools for ADHD Management 

In our enlightening chat with Ian, the conversation took a tech-savvy turn as we explored how digital tools and technology can be transformative for those managing ADHD, Here were some specific tools mentioned: 

  • AI and ChatGPT: Ian uses AI tools like ChatGPT for brainstorming and organizing his thoughts, helping move from a blank page to a structured outline that he can then personalize and expand upon.

  • Notion: Ian’s approach to using Notion is all about starting simple and building complexity over time. Like many of us, he initially felt overwhelmed by Notion’s capabilities. To conquer this, Ian focused on creating a straightforward CRM system through creating simple databases and linking them, keeping track of contacts and the events where he’s met them, effectively serving as his second brain. Ian’s top tip: don’t get overwhelmed by trying to make notion aesthetically pleasing (at least at first:)

  • Google Calendar: While not AI-powered, Google Calendar is essential for Ian in organizing his week, although he expresses caution about letting AI take over scheduling tasks completely.

  • Apple AirTags: These help Ian keep track of important items like keys, ensuring he doesn’t waste time looking for them.

  • BrainFM: Used in combination with noise-cancelling headphones, BrainFM helps Ian focus by playing sounds and music designed to minimize distractions or aid in relaxation and sleep.

  • Reminders: Whether it’s Apple Reminders or another app, these tools are crucial for managing everyday tasks and shopping lists, simplifying daily responsibilities.

  • ReadWise: This app keeps track of all the books Ian is reading, allowing for easy reference and organization of his reading materials.

  • FocusToDo: I shared in our conversation that I love to use the Pomodoro technique with this app. It lets me set up my task list and work through each one with dedicated time blocks. For instance, setting aside 20 or 25 minutes to tackle my taxes makes the task feel less daunting. Having that timer counting down really helps me zero in and get things done.

Embracing the Journey: Conclusion

Wrapping up our chat with Ian Anderson Gray on ADHD, creativity, and entrepreneurship, it’s pretty clear we’re just scratching the surface. The journey of navigating ADHD, especially when you’re juggling creativity and running a business, is always moving forward. It’s all about reaching out, sharing what works, and sometimes, just knowing you’re not alone in this.

Ian’s stepping up with something pretty cool – his new podcast, “Smart ADHD.” It’s not just for the brainiacs; it’s for everyone looking for practical, real-world tactics to handle ADHD, whether you think you’re smart or not. Ian’s pulling from his own life and smart folks like Tamara Rosier PhD, to highlight the good, the bad, and the smarter ways to deal with ADHD symptoms. “Smart ADHD” is all about swapping out those not-so-great coping strategies with something a bit more positive.

So, here’s where you come in. Got a story to share? An epic win or a facepalm moment while navigating ADHD in your creative or entrepreneurial life? Drop it in the comments. Let’s make this a space where we can all learn from each other. And definitely, give “Smart ADHD” a listen. Ian’s cooking up something special, and it might just be the thing you need to hear today.


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. So glad that you’re here and this is going to be a fun show. Uh, we’re talking about something that, you know, I don’t think a lot of, you know, channels talk about very much. So this is going to be really interesting and I think it affects more of us than we know.

[00:00:18] I think we all know somebody. Who, uh, has ADHD and, you know, maybe you have it as well. It’s, but this is going to be an interesting show. So if you know somebody who you think this would be really, really valuable for, feel free to at mention them wherever you’re watching it from, mention them in the comments, call them into the conversation, even if they can’t watch it live, I, I know this is going to be valuable for them because this is really an, an interesting topic.

[00:00:41] Um, and I can’t wait to get into it with my friend, Ian Anderson Gray is back on the show. So Ian, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:00:48] Ian Anderson Gray: I’m doing well. Yes. Good to be here. Good to chat with you guys. Um, I’m a big fan of the show, so

[00:00:53] Jeff Sieh: I know. Thank you so much for tuning in all the time. And we’ve got the amazing Connor Brown. Connor Brown, what’s been going on in your world? Are you, uh, I mean, you’re, you’re booking, you know, travel. What’s your next big trip? Like, where are you going?

[00:01:06] Conor Brown: My next big trip is actually, it isn’t until June, but I’ll be on, um, a Disney cruise and it’ll be the first Disney cruise going to Disney’s newest private destination in the Caribbean. So they have

[00:01:20] Jeff Sieh: Is it lighthouse point? Is that what it is?

[00:01:22] Conor Brown: a lighthouse point at lookout K,

[00:01:25] Jeff Sieh: Oh, okay. Okay. Whatever. So are you, have you been on the new ship yet? The treasure? Is that out yet? It’s not here, is it?

[00:01:34] Conor Brown: Treasure’s not out yet, nope, Treasure, uh, debuts basically over Christmas time of, of

[00:01:39] Jeff Sieh: yeah, that’ll be, that’ll be not packed at all. So, anyway, uh, enough about travel and what’s going on with Connor. By the way, if you do need travel, uh, help, he is an amazing planner. He’ll get you set up wherever you want to go, but especially his, especially his, like, Disney Universal, uh, and it’s just, he does a great job.

[00:01:56] He knows all the insider info, the hacks. He got, um, I think Ian and I, when we went there last time, I was like, Hey, how can we get breakfast and get into the parks really easily? And I texted Connor and he gave us a secret hack to get in and it was amazing. So if you need that stuff, you need to talk to Connor Brown.

[00:02:11] Yeah. Yeah. We had a good time. So, all right. So we’ve got some people already tuning in saying, I need this info. So this is going to be a great show. Uh, feel free to, why is that so small? We’ll fix that right now. But this is going to be a great, that’s why I love Ecamm folks. Cause I can do it on the fly.

[00:02:26] Um, it’s going to be a great show. So I’m going to go ahead and hit go on the podcast machine and we will get started. Hello folks. Welcome to social media news live. I’m Jeff Sieh. Have

[00:02:41] Conor Brown: I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:02:49] Jeff Sieh: you ever wondered how ADHD might be a powerful tool in entrepreneurship and creativity? Maybe you’re intrigued by the ways it can fuel innovation and lead to unique business successes. Or maybe you’re on a journey to harness your ADHD In a way that amplifies your creative and entrepreneurial spirit.

[00:03:08] If those thoughts have crossed your mind, well, today’s episode is tailor made just for you. We’re excited to have Ian Anderson Gray with us, a creator who has navigated the waters of ADHD to uncover strategies that leverage his strengths in the business and creative worlds. Ian’s going to be sharing his personal journey, insights, and actionable advice for turning ADHD into an outcome.

[00:03:31] So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Ian, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:03:39] Ian Anderson Gray: I’m doing well. It’s great to be here. I love this show as I said before, it’s great.

[00:03:44] Jeff Sieh: Good to have you.

[00:03:45] Conor Brown: Love it. I’m so excited for this talk and for Ian too, because if you don’t know Ian, you should. Ian is the founder of the Confident Live Marketing Academy and is the host of the Confident Live Marketing Podcast, as well as his new SmartADHD podcast. He helps entrepreneurs to level up their impact, authority, and profits by using live video content.

[00:04:11] Confidently. As well as being a geek, husband and dad to two kids, Ian is also a professional singer and lives near Manchester in the UK. Thanks again, Ian, for being here today.

[00:04:25] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, it’s great to be here. I love the way you, you just, you just stopped at the word geek there,

[00:04:29] Jeff Sieh: That’s right,

[00:04:30] Ian Anderson Gray: to really,

[00:04:31] Conor Brown: You

[00:04:31] Jeff Sieh: we, yes,

[00:04:32] Conor Brown: emphasis on the right words, you know, it’s, it’s all about

[00:04:36] Ian Anderson Gray: yeah, yeah.

[00:04:37] Jeff Sieh: exactly, well, but before we get diving into the topic of ADHD, I want to, uh, as a creator, I want to give a shout out to our, uh, sponsor of the show, the amazing people at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash jeff. If you use code jeff15, you’re going to save 15 percent on On your first purchase, that’s ecamm.

[00:04:55] com forward slash Jeff. Make sure to take a check them out. They’re an amazing, amazing group of people over there. And I also want to do a big shout out real quick to the new thing they got going on. It’s their Leap Into Tools and Tactics. So if creating content feels like an impossible task, task, some days, you need to come to this free virtual event.

[00:05:14] Leap Into Tools and Tactics is all about streaming your content workflows by implementing content efficiency. Efficiency through different tools and tricks. You can join me April 12th through the 26th and learn some of my favorite tips for content creation. There’s so many great speakers. I have been asked to be one of them.

[00:05:30] You can find out more at leap. ecamm. com. That’s leap. ecamm. com. Come check us out. It’s going to be an amazing All right, so let’s jump right into this, Ian, because I, you know, you and I have been friends, what was it, we talked about it this morning, because I was like, when did we first meet, and what did you say, it was like 2015, is that when

[00:05:53] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. Yeah. 2015. So social media marketing world, 2015. I think we, we didn’t know each other before that, but like meeting in person was at social media marketing world, 2015.

[00:06:01] Jeff Sieh: yeah, and we’ve done stuff, you know, met in real life, and been parts of Masterminds, and all sorts of things, so I’ve known Ian for a while, but I remember when he, He actually went and got diagnosed and as an, uh, you know, ADHD as an adult and then your paths kind of, you know, diving into that and learning more about it.

[00:06:18] So I’m really excited about this because we’re going to be talking about what like understanding ADHD is. Um, so Ian, can you kind of kick us off? Like, why do you think ADHD is kind of prevalent among like entrepreneurs and creatives. Cause I just,

[00:06:33] I think more people have it than not. So,

[00:06:36] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. And I mean, this is, this is maybe kind of one of the, the, the myths or stigmas. Like some people are saying, well, everyone has ADHD, but we’ll maybe get onto that in a bit. I mean, I think a lot more people are getting diagnosed because we understand it a lot more, but also I think the modern world that we’re living in, it’s great.

[00:06:57] There’s so many cool things for us to play with, but that can actually. I think in a sense, like make it more difficult for people with ADHD. So like my, you know, our grandparents, like they may have had ADHD, but they could kind of, the world was like a, maybe an easier place for to, to, to be ADHD. So that’s the first thing, but also like ADHD, people with ADHD tend to gravitate towards entrepreneurship because generally speaking, we have more divergent thinking.

[00:07:28] We think out of the box and. Also, it fosters creativity and we can carve out our own timetable as well, which works really, really well. And I’ve, I’ve found that I tend to work really well. I will work like really, really hard for like two or three days. I get hyper focused, I focus. And then Friday I find I need to take that time off.

[00:07:50] And I’m, I, so I take I have a kind of a much more flexible schedule, I think, uh, and also we don’t have to have a boss who doesn’t understand us. I have spoken to some people who have had bosses who have really not understood the way their brain works. And so instead of focusing on their strengths, and there are strengths with ADHD, they’ve focused on the challenges that people with ADHD have.

[00:08:16] So I think, That, those are all the reasons. Creativity, divergent thinking, flexibility, freedom, all those kind of things. There are some negatives too, but those are the positives. Yeah.

[00:08:44] Conor Brown: your best foot forward with, with all that stuff.

[00:08:46] But I think for a lot of people, they don’t really understand what ADHD is, right? Or they’re just familiar with the stereotypes and they kind of say, no, that’s not me. I don’t have that. Um, but what does

[00:08:57] it entail? And like, if you could just narrow it down and kind of give a, a super, you know, quick summary of what does it entail and, and what is it like, I guess, living with it?

[00:09:08] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, and this was, this was my problem. This is why I denied that it was gonna, that I was ADHD. In fact, I remember I, I used to teach singing and I had a student who was, he said he had ADHD and I was thinking all these, Oh, you know, it’s just an excuse. It’s just, he’s, he’s just giving this label. He’s lazy, you know, and I was thinking all these things.

[00:09:28] Uh, and then I’ve, I’ve seen people who are very hyperactive, um, people, uh, or they always forgetful and. I thought that’s, that’s not really me. So ADHD stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, which is not very helpful because it isn’t really attention deficit. I have no problem focusing, hyper focusing on stuff that I’m really interested in.

[00:09:53] It’s just that I struggle with stuff that I’m not interested in. So you could call it attention, uh, what would you call it? Attention.

[00:10:03] Conor Brown: Boring,

[00:10:04] Ian Anderson Gray: suppose, or dysregulation. Yeah. Um, and then the hyperactivity is a funny one because I was pretty hyperactive as a kid, but I have no problem staying still. Now, what I didn’t realize is that hyperactivity can also mean like in the, in the brain.

[00:10:20] And then I started to realize how much was going on in my head. And I was thinking, no, no wonder I need afternoon naps. Um, so like, so I think. You know, and there was many different types of ADHD, as there are people with ADHD. I think that’s really important. So it’s really helpful to think of ADHD as a neurological difference, that there is a difference in the way the brain works.

[00:10:44] And with ADHD tend to have an unreliable access to what we call the prefrontal cortex. So this is the front of the brain. And this, and this is really important because this, the area of the brain, That helps with things like planning, emotional regulation, executive functions. So for example, you know, storing information, remind, remembering short term memory, things like that.

[00:11:09] And what I didn’t realize is that one of the top traits for people that people have with ADHD is emotional dysregulation. We.

[00:11:17] Conor Brown: that was something we wanted to do. And

[00:11:20] Ian Anderson Gray: And I’ve had over the years, I’ve had some people say to me, Ian, you’re like, you’re so sensitive. Like, don’t be so sensitive. Um, uh, so we tend to like have emotions either number one or possibly two or 10.

[00:11:32] It’s like not in the middle, big emotions. Uh, and that can be a really good thing. But not always. So the sensitivity, the sensitivity sometimes to noise and stimulation. So like at parties, if there’s lots of loud music and somebody wants to talk to me, it’s not going to happen. I really, um, and so like things like noise cancelling headphones can really help, uh, executive functioning.

[00:11:55] So this is organization tasks, maintaining focus, uh, and things like that. So we can come on to some of the misconceptions, but that’s basically what ADHD is.

[00:12:06] Jeff Sieh: So I wanted to kind of, you know, and we had a great comment. It says, uh, this was written for me. It didn’t know that’s what I had until my daughter’s doctor told her that’s where she got it. So, you know, a lot of people are finding out as they get older that, you know, they may have ADHD. Sieh, ADHD, or struggle because of that.

[00:12:24] Uh, I know also, when I was researching for this show, I kind of dove in some articles, and there’s a difference between being easily distracted, and having ADHD. And I know a lot happened during the pandemic, um, in fact, there’s people in my family who we can’t get the medicine that they need, because, It’s been kind of over diagnosed, and people are getting on this, and it’s hard to find the drug that kind of helps people cope with ADHD, at least here in the States.

[00:12:50] So, I guess, as we move on to these myths and, um, you know, misperceptions about ADHD, like, what’s

[00:12:57] the difference between being easily distracted and having ADHD? Like, when people say, because I mean, I can, I’m, I know I’m easily distracted, but I don’t, I’ve never been, you know, clinically diagnosed to have a

[00:13:09] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. Yeah, and I suppose I need to kind of get the, uh, the warning out of the way, the medical warning. Like none of us are experts here in this. And so like, if you, if you’re concerned about any of these things, then do see a medical professional. Um, but like, if you’re identifying with any of these things, it’s good to, good to look into it.

[00:13:27] And so, yeah, one of the, one of the things that I heard, heard a lot. So when, when I got diagnosed, it was a massive Relief for me. Uh, a lot of guilt went, but then when people, I started talking to people, people said, well, like, well, what, what is ADHD? And I said, well, you know, procrastination, these kinds of things.

[00:13:46] And, uh, and then people said to me, well, but I struggle with it. Everyone struggles with that. And that’s the thing. It’s a spectrum in, in some senses, like everyone struggles with these things. Everyone struggles with anxiety. Um, uh, sorry, everyone struggles with procrastination or, um, getting distracted. Um, I love this, a guy called Rick Green, who’s a comedian, and he has ADHD, and he, he wrote, um, he, he actually wrote the, or he put together this big, um, very popular documentary called ADD and Loving It, and he, he says, he makes this analogy, Yeah, everyone has ADHD.

[00:14:23] Well, everyone has height, you know, some people are taller than others. And I think that’s a really important thing. Like, I, I realized, or my parents realized, when I was about 12 or 13, that I’m short sighted, that I needed glasses. So yeah, that’s a label. But it was a really helpful label because then I could do something about it.

[00:14:43] And I think that’s the same with ADHD. Like, the problem is it’s, it’s in the mental health kind of category. And, and so yeah, that’s a tricky one. But when you know that you have something that is different or something that impairs you in some way, such as short sightedness, you can go and get some glasses.

[00:15:03] And so I think that’s, That’s really important, and it doesn’t necessarily mean you need to go down the medication route. Medication can really help a lot of people. For me at the moment, I’ve not gone down that route yet. I’m looking at a more holistic, um, approach to it. Who knows? I might, you know, I might look at medication at some point.

[00:15:23] So that’s, I think the label issue is one thing. Um, then there’s the whole thing. People with ADHD are always late or disorganized. You know what? When I want to be. I can be more organized than most people. Uh, I was, uh, live, I was producing an event for this wildlife tracking, um, um, company or organization.

[00:15:44] And there’s so many moving parts with that. There were speakers from all around the world. Um, I was, I, I was thinking about so all the kind of functionality, all the things that could go wrong. I was so hyper organized. When it comes to my. Taxes and my finances. This is where I need some help, you know, because I find that boring.

[00:16:06] And then things like being late, uh, if it’s important, like for example, if I need to get to the airport, I get there ultra early because I know that if I don’t, I’m going to be late. So I, I overcompensate. And then there’s the other thing about impulsivity. Yes, people with ADHD tend to be, can be quite impulsive.

[00:16:26] And I have been over the years. Like if I’ve seen like the latest smartphone, I might, I used to like, would I just go and buy it? But sometimes like people who have ADHD often have other, other, I don’t know what, I don’t want to call it issues, but other things, so it could be anxiety. It could be other things.

[00:16:43] And so for me, Anxiety tends to counteract my impulsivity. So, uh, I won’t always go out and buy something new because I’m worried about the money or worried about the fact that this might not be the right thing for me. And I tend to overthink it. So it’s a lot of things that go into it. There’s, there’s, it’s not, there’s not one size fits all, um, but those are maybe some of the misconceptions.

[00:17:07] Jeff Sieh: awesome. Yeah, that’s, that’s really helpful because I, I, I know we all one, I think what you said earlier, like if you, if these things are resonating with you. Go get tested or go talk to your health professional about it. And, uh, I ha I, when I was reading these articles about this, when we preparing for the show, it, what you said about, you know, the glasses thing, and like, if you would have short sighted kids, you’d have them get glasses.

[00:17:31] They, they really did like, When they get that diagnosis, they’ve said it’s, it’s like you got glasses for the first time. You felt that relief. You were able to see and understand your brain a little bit better. So I think that’s a really important. So thanks for, once again, and thanks for transparency about this.

[00:17:45] I know it’s, it’s kind of, this is kind of a, it seems like almost a taboo subject sometimes, but it’s not, it shouldn’t be. And I think I’m glad for you coming on and

[00:17:53] Ian Anderson Gray: Well, and it is in a sense, and I, I have to say, like, I have felt quite nervous about, because in a sense I’m, I’m kind of outing myself, aren’t I? Like coming onto the show and talking about ADHD and, and it’s not the done thing, you know, I need to keep quiet and get on with my life. Thank you very much.

[00:18:10] And, uh, but

[00:18:12] Jeff Sieh: a lot to do with it too. Yeah.

[00:18:14] Ian Anderson Gray: is very true.

[00:18:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:18:16] Conor Brown: But no, that’s, that’s very helpful for me to understand it as well. And I know Ian, you kind of talked about how. You know, ADHD and, and being entrepreneurial or being a creative, it, it, it’s very prevalent in, in that community. But from your

[00:18:30] experience, how has ADHD not only, I guess, uh, uh, interfered, but also like influenced the creative process, um, amongst particularly business owners and entrepreneurs and yourself included, of course.

[00:18:45] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, it’s a great, it’s a great question. So first of all, I want to say, like, I think it’s, it’s too trivial to say that ADHD is a superpower, because I think that’s kind goes over the fact that there are many, many challenges. And so I don’t want to sugarcoat things. However, there are positives, definite positives.

[00:19:08] And I think that’s what I’ve realized when I look back at my career, it’s when I’ve leaned into these elements that I’ve done my best work. And I look at the, you know, getting to speak at Social Media Marketing World and some of the, uh, the, uh, The, uh, the blog posts that I’ve created and I’ve gone down these rabbit holes.

[00:19:28] It’s all

[00:19:29] Conor Brown: we

[00:19:32] Ian Anderson Gray: by the way my brain works. So I think some of these things are quick decisions. I’ve heard people say that an ADHD brain is kind of like, it’s like a supercomputer in our heads, but unfortunately there’s no cooling system. Or another way is like having a Ferrari engine. But with, I’m not very good with cars, like a really bad car’s brakes.

[00:19:56] Can you help me

[00:19:57] Jeff Sieh: Do a Pinto. Do a Pinto.

[00:19:58] Ian Anderson Gray: And so those brakes, you know, so it’s the, and, and so the, the quick decisions are great. There are some ramifications of that. They’re also the out of the box thinking. So like, I love to do things a little bit more, a bit differently and creatively to what other people are doing.

[00:20:16] That just floats my boat. Uh, and being different as sometimes that. Sometimes we, we, that, that can be a problem, but I think often we want to do things differently. And also following my curiosity, I’ve realized that whenever I try and do what people say I should be doing, which is like, I need to have a proper strategy and I need to do things the way People say I should be doing it.

[00:20:42] That’s when I’ve, I’ve made my biggest mistakes. And it’s also when I’ve got really bored and frankly depressed when I’ve gone down the rabbit hole and followed my curiosity, I’m not saying that it’s always served me well, there have been some, you know, disasters along the way, but I’ve had fun and I’ve created some amazing things like the first course that I did when Facebook live came out back in 2016 and I was dabbling with OBS studio.

[00:21:08] Oh my goodness. OBS studio. Those were the days. Thank goodness for Ecamm Live, that’s all I can say. But back in those days, um, I’ve went down the rabbit hole and I created this really fun thing and this, and I was able to produce this course. Um, but when I followed sometimes what people said I should be doing, uh, I’ve just not been able to, to make it work.

[00:21:28] So I, I, yeah, I think hopefully that answers your question. It’s like creativity and innovation.

[00:21:35] Conor Brown: Yeah, it’s almost like it gives you permission to explore that as well. I guess when, once you understand. What you have, you know, it’s, it’s, it becomes less of why am I going down this rabbit trail of, of, no, this is my, this is my creativity. This is who I am and allow me to explore that and, and learn from that.

[00:21:52] all for

[00:21:55] Jeff Sieh: go on to this next section where we’re talking about kind of some strategies maybe for entrepreneurs and creators who may struggle with this, may have been diagnosed, may have not. In fact, I would love for you, wherever you guys are watching from, to is if you have been diagnosed or struggle or are dealing with ADHD and you know that, like what are some of your, your challenges and how you’ve overcome them?

[00:22:16] I would love to know in the comments. I’m sure Ian would as well, but that’s the question I want to have for Ian right now is like, what are some of these, you know, significant challenges? You kind of mentioned some of them kind of being late. So you’ve made some hacks that you, you know, you show up early to the airport, but like when running your business with ADHD, you know, what are some other ways that you have like.

[00:22:34] You have acknowledged those facts, especially since you’ve been diagnosed. Like now, you know why, and now you can kind of make a plan,

[00:22:41] you know, what are some of those that you have overcome and how you’ve kind of overcome them in now with this new knowledge that you have,

[00:22:49] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. And not knowledge is just so, so important. I remember like just when we first. I knew each other, Jeff, like, but, you know, nearly, nearly 10 years ago, like, I, I was beating myself up inside about how, like, I was not good at certain things or how I thought I wasn’t good. And, uh, and so one of the big challenges, a lot of people with ADHD, not all, many have pretty low self esteem and they have this negative inner dialogue.

[00:23:16] Now I know, like, a lot of people do, but this is really heightened with people with ADHD. So I think, yeah. First of all, be aware of that and be aware of that inner dialogue and that it can be a challenge. That’s taking me a long time to, and I’m not there yet with this, but just, Oh, my, my, my inner voice is saying that I’m no good at speaking.

[00:23:41] Uh, so that, that’s the first thing, be aware it’s telling you something. And actually in some ways you can, you can almost give this person a name. This, this was something that our ADHD coach, Tamara, Razzia was talking about actually personifying your that inner voice. You can call it, uh, so mine’s kind of like a this, he’s trying to be a helpful librarian.

[00:24:02] He’s got all these books and he wants to be really well prepared, but he tends to overthink things. And he says he wants to Save me from, from something that’s scary. And this is, again, something that people with ADHD think it, it, um, struggle with, sorry. It’s, it’s not being able to differentiate between something like speaking at an event and certain death.

[00:24:28] Jeff Sieh: right? Right.

[00:24:29] Ian Anderson Gray: so the brain goes like, ah, warning, warning, you know, alert, alert, alert. So it’s, I think the first thing is, is it’s that being self aware, being aware of that inner dialogue, talk to other people and start to make a list of truths about yourself. And this has been a real struggle for me, but actually speaking with others who have a much better idea of my strengths.

[00:24:54] Uh, and making a list of those and being aware of, of my strengths is really important. The other thing I’ve found is, uh, is sleep and, and, and being constantly tired, uh, because our brains are working kind of like so, so hard. Things that really help with this, um, are things like your diet, exercise, um, and what I would call really, uh, it’s kind of, um,

[00:25:21] Conor Brown: joined the

[00:25:23] Ian Anderson Gray: your nervous system.

[00:25:24] So things like, uh, just knowing things that are actually going to calm you down. Uh, so exercise definitely helps me. Um, and you could also

[00:25:34] Conor Brown: for

[00:25:35] Ian Anderson Gray: the different tasks that you do into different zones. So this is the book, this is from the book by Tamara Razzier, uh, Your Brain’s Not Broken. And she has this kind of four quadrants, which I suppose is.

[00:25:46] Yeah, quadrant means four. So I suppose it was gonna be four. But anyway, you’ve got at the top, you’ve got your, um, your high stimulation activities. So on one side, you’ve got the green, which is high stimulation and fun. It could be like, maybe you’re into roller coasters. That’s high stimulation and fun.

[00:26:03] But on the other side, you’ve got high stimulation and not fun. That might be. You’ve got, you’ve got a, uh, you’re speaking at a conference tomorrow and the dog has eaten your presentation and you’re going to have to start again. That’s not good. And then at the bottom, you’ve got low stimulation tasks. So the blue zone is on the right, that’s low stimulation and fun.

[00:26:23] It could be like watching Netflix. Uh, and then the other low stimulation, not fun for me. That’s bookkeeping anything to do with that taxes. Uh, what we tend to do and it’s a genius trick. We tend to put it off and put it off those yellow zone tasks until they They’re they tomorrow you need to do it tomorrow and it becomes a red zone task.

[00:26:42] So we’re stimulating our brains in order to to actually do this stuff. So knowing The, the different zones that these tasks are in is really important because you can then try to, throughout the week, um, put these different tasks in at different times and be aware of where your brain, how your brain works at different times of the day.

[00:27:05] Um, other thing is like struggling, finishing off tasks. Well, I think following my curiosity really helps, but also collaboration and delegation as well. Uh, another thing I struggled with is burnout. And this is when I’m not listening to my body and my mind, and I’ve just kept on going on and on and on.

[00:27:23] Maybe I’m comparing myself to others. So some time off. And I know Jeff, you, you always tease me about, you know, how many holidays and vacations I have, but it’s actually, there’s a reason for it. I, I, I personally. Need that, that time now, people, everyone with ADHD is different. So some people will find different types of ways of relaxing, but, uh, so, but yeah, delegation’s important, uh, forgetting things.

[00:27:49] So my way of with that is to use technology and we can maybe come onto that in a bit, but that’s tools, uh, and things to help me with that as well.

[00:27:59] Jeff Sieh: So I want to bring up real quick, Connor, before we go on, the next question is, this is a good point by Gary. He goes, someone I work with is usually late to meetings and I didn’t realize it might be related to something that he deals with. So this is a, this is especially in a workplace. This can be a sensitive topics because it has to do a lot.

[00:28:17] This is kind of a mental health kind of, I guess it would fit into there. So how do you deal with that in the

[00:28:23] workplace? Now that person could be like just easily distracted or they could be dealing with ADHD. So how would you suggest you manage something like that in the workplace? Do you take them aside and say, listen, have you been da, da, da, da, or I mean, what, what would you do in Gary’s situation?

[00:28:41] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, no, it’s, it’s a really, it’s a really difficult one. Uh, because again, we’re all different. So for me, I tend to overcompensate. I’ve actually found, and this is not necessarily a good tool. So we tend to learn these bad tools. For example, we utilize anger, anxiety, or even things like low self loathing and shame to get us to.

[00:29:03] Do things because we’ve been late before we don’t want to be late. I want to let people down And so we overcompensate but some people Don’t do that. And it’s not that they’re not late because they want to be It’s actually one uh symptom that people with adhd have is is time blindness And this is not like with time lords in the doctor who universe or anything, but actually time kind of Runs in a slightly different way in our heads.

[00:29:31] And so like You For example, to get ready for this show, like I’ve got it in my calendar, but there were things that I needed to do to, in order to get ready for this. So for example, switching off, switching on my computer, making sure I’ve got notes so I know what, vaguely what I’m talking about. Uh, there’s quite, and it could be like getting to work.

[00:29:52] Well, like for some people you just put, Getting to work in the calendar. But if you have ADHD, there are so many other things that you might not have thought about, like getting in the car. Have you got enough fuel in your car to get there? Uh, where are your keys? Um, you know, making sure that you’ve got them in a place.

[00:30:10] So I think what I would say is if somebody is struggling, uh, getting to work on time, um, I suppose this is understanding maybe why they are struggling with that. And is there anything that you can do to help that? You know, there could be some tips and hacks to help with that. And I’ve, I’ve learned some of those tips and hacks myself, but maybe some people are struggling with, to find some of those things.

[00:30:36] Um, so yeah, you, I think it’s important to be flexible to a point, but at the end of the day, you know, if you’re, if you’re working, Uh, in a, in a business, in a company, you need, you do need to get there on time, but there might be ways that you can do that you, you know, talking to them to, to help them maybe understand time better.

[00:30:56] Uh, and for me, I’ve found, like working with VAs, that is brilliant because at the end of the day, I, you know, I, I’ve come to realize that my prefrontal cortex, uh, I don’t really ha have as much access to that as I would like. Our prefrontal cortex is kind of like our butler, you know? Uh, so if you are more of a neurotypical brain, you can say to your prefrontal cortex, you can say, uh, okay, can you tell me what my, what I’m doing today?

[00:31:22] And can you tell me where my keys are? And it’s kind of replies to you in a Jeeves like voice. Oh, well, certainly as your keys are in the, in the hallway, top, top cabinets, and you have a meeting at 9am and you’ll need to, you need to leave because there’s a lot of traffic on a Wednesday morning. You need to leave a little bit earlier.

[00:31:38] Uh, with the. With the, uh, ADHD brain, it doesn’t work quite like that. You know, the, the, the brain doesn’t work quite, and, and it’s almost like this kind of angry neighbor saying, where are you? You’re always losing your keys. Where are they? And so I think it’s finding ways to help that person because their brain’s wired differently.

[00:31:56] It’s not that they don’t care. It’s just, um, finding that out. And of course this is assuming the person has ADHD. Uh, they might not, they might actually just be, um, they can’t be bothered and they just don’t, they want to be like, I don’t know.

[00:32:09] Jeff Sieh: So I guess what I hear you say is like, don’t come at them as an, you know, accusing them of something. Come as like, how can I help? Like, and then, you know, maybe they don’t even know that this is, you know, bringing the rest of the team down and it’s, you know, you can say like, hey, I’ve noticed this. Maybe, you know, maybe you need to talk to this person, but here’s some maybe tech that’ll help.

[00:32:28] Here’s something that I found that helps me and, and not, you know, like you’re late again, kind of a thing.

[00:32:35] Ian Anderson Gray: well, it’s, it’s, it’s dialogue, it’s conversation, because at the end of the day, you don’t know, uh, and quite often what happens is the people with ADHD who are late, uh, they probably are aware, and they have this inner dialogue, you know, I remember I was telling you about that, that The Angry Neighbour, who’s saying, You’re always late.

[00:32:53] You’re always late. You just, you, you’re just pathetic. You know, you may as well give up. You’re going to get sacked. Sometimes those, that inner voice can play, and that actually exacerbates the situation. So actually it’s important to kind of understand what’s happening and to, To find ways to help. And there are, there are definite strategies.

[00:33:13] I mean, it can be, you can go down, if it is ADHD, you can go down the medication route and that can really help, but there are holistic approaches as well. And there’s tech and there’s other ways as well.

[00:33:24] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Thanks for that. Good question, Gary. Thank you.

[00:33:27] Conor Brown: Yeah, that was an awesome question. It’s, it’s kind of about having a conversation, talking, having empathy, those sorts of things. Ian, I loved when you talked about the quadrants as well, because for me, that sounded like understanding what the task is and what it takes from you will help you set up and say, this is when I need to do that.

[00:33:46] And it sets you up for future success, right? You’re setting up future Ian for success by saying, these are the tasks, these how are, are, are how we have to get them done. Especially nowadays when every other YouTube video you see is you need this routine to 10x your lifestyle, right? And that’s of course a little crazy, but routines are good.

[00:34:08] And I have to imagine that when you’re living with ADHD, routines and, and processes are, are probably especially useful, um, to kind of help you stay productive in, in those. You’ve talked a little bit about it, but could you share some other effective systems and, and

[00:34:24] routines that help you? all

[00:34:27] Ian Anderson Gray: back to the, quickly back onto the quadrant thing. I think that we, we all have energy tanks, you know, it doesn’t matter what kind of brain you have, you have an energy tank and, but understanding that if you spent like any time in the red zone, you’re going to drain your tank and you could get leading to burnout.

[00:34:43] If you spend too much time in the blue zone, you. Yeah, it kind of might be fun watching Netflix, but if you do that all the time, you’re going to get drained. So it’s just balancing that and this is yet where routine comes in. The problem I think with ADHD is that it’s a balancing act because if you have too much routine, it gets boring, like, and But if you don’t have any routine, that’s not exactly going to help you get stuff done.

[00:35:09] So it’s finding the right balance for you and we’re all different. So time blocking, I have a kind of a flexible approach to time blocking because I, I find it does help, but again, if it becomes too rigid, I ignore it. It’s just kind of the way my brain works. Google Calendar for me, I mean, Oh my goodness.

[00:35:32] It’s the most amazing thing ever. It’s, it’s, it’s helped us as a family. We have shared calendars. We know what we’re doing. If it’s not in the calendar, it’s not going to happen. But I’m, you know, and I’ve got really good at making appointments. It’s incredibly rare that I miss an appointment because it’s in the calendar.

[00:35:53] Uh, and I’ve just got my brain focused on that. So. Um, so yeah, not being too rigid, but you do need to, you do need to have, um, you do need to have some, uh, you know, routines, absolutely. Uh, I’ve mentioned having a virtual assistant or somebody to help, um, accountability as well. So actually sometimes, uh, I’ve spent time with my VA and actually she’s just been there saying, okay, you’ve got these five emails and I’m just like, oh, oh, oh.

[00:36:21] Can I just reply to them now? And she’s waiting there while I reply to these emails. But the fact that she is there is helping me to do it. Uh, I find, how would I call this? Like artificial deadlines can help. So, uh, my kids are at the time when I’m, I’m basically dad’s taxi. So like I’m taking my daughter to swimming or to music practice and I’m in the car park, like for 45 minutes, an hour.

[00:36:47] I get some of my best work done because I’ve only got 50 minutes to do stuff. And, and I’m kind of almost artificially firing up my, I think it’s called my limbic system in my brain. I’m getting all technical now, but this is the stuff that I’ve been learning. And so like artificial, um, Time limits can help.

[00:37:06] Uh, and then things like getting out of the house. So changing the environment. So sometimes that could be working. So it could be like working in a different room of the house, going to a coffee shop, don’t forget your noise cancelling headphones, uh, and play some, you know, white noise or brown noise through that.

[00:37:22] We can talk about that in a bit. Um, I use timers as well because of this kind of weird perception of time that ADHD people tend to have. Having like, um, you know, you could call this a Pomodoro technique. I’m not entirely convinced Pomodoro works in the sense that I think you need to be flexible with ADHD because sometimes you’re just so in the zone, you’re so hyper focused that there’s no way you’re going to stop.

[00:37:46] In fact, if you stop, you’re going to find it very difficult to get back into it. But, but this is particularly for stuff that you don’t want to do, your yellow zone tasks. Uh, timers are great. Uh, and then there’s, of course, there’s technology as well as, I mean, I use things like Notion, we’ve mentioned Google Calendars, there’s all this kind of stuff, which you can maybe talk about in a bit.

[00:38:07] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think that’s all, all, um, really good. One of the, and this is a question somebody sent me, um, when they knew that we’re going to be talking about this topic. So I’m really interested in your thoughts on this. So. It’s creating, uh, consistently. So creating consistently can really be challenging. We as creators, entrepreneurs, we know all about that.

[00:38:25] So how do you maintain motivation and continue to produce new content or ideas, particularly during, you know, you mentioned before, like sometimes just with the, you know, the ups and downs, those unmotivated phases. Like when you’re unmotivated, how do you continue to produce this new content and ideas that you have to do as a creator or entrepreneur?

[00:38:47] Ian Anderson Gray: this, and this is a tough one, I think, because, so that, you know, this is why people do go down, Uh, the medic medication route, I, I believe that can sometimes help. Um, but you know, holistically I’ve mentioned a few of those things, you know, getting exercise. Um, but putting all those to one side, like I, again, following my curiosity, making sure that the tasks that I’m doing are stuff that I enjoy.

[00:39:12] Um, and I found this with my show that I needed to be flexible enough in order to be able to keep my Curiosity going, and actually I found with my Confident Live show, and we can maybe talk about this in a bit, that

[00:39:25] Conor Brown: 21 school

[00:39:26] Ian Anderson Gray: there were things that I really wanted to talk about that weren’t Really kind of appropriate, they weren’t really part of like, uh, about live video and, and which is my, what my podcast and show is about.

[00:39:38] So I, I ended up realizing, well, I need to create a new show. And so I can talk about that, but also like, I think you need to give yourself permission. And this is a really hard one for me. You need to give yourself permission to, that it’s okay to stop. And it’s okay not to be consistent. Like, Next week, I’m going to be totally honest with you.

[00:39:58] I don’t have an episode ready for the Confident Line Marketing Show. I’ve got, I’ve got, I’ve had three out and next week I don’t. So, like, I could really stress about that or I could say, well, okay, I’m going to do a little bonus episode. I’m going to record five, 10 minutes. And that’s okay. The world is still going to be here.

[00:40:16] Uh, and so you think it’s just like understanding that it’s okay. However, really helped me at the start when I, you know, when I’m thinking about how I was consistent with my The Confident Live Marketing Show from May 2019 until last year, I did it every single week or the podcast was every single week.

[00:40:34] And the only way I did that was I had a solid plan and a process. And so I knew why I was doing it. I knew how I was going to do it. I had a good process and I had people helping me. Uh, and so although you might want to be alone, yes, you can be alone in the, in terms of the creativity, but you kind of need help from other people as well, I think.

[00:40:54] And you also need to give yourself permission to change and stop along the way.

[00:40:59] Jeff Sieh: Great advice. Um,

[00:41:01] Conor Brown: you’ve kind of hinted a little bit at tech helping you. And I love this question from Dustin, who

[00:41:06] says, you know, I’m curious if you’ve been able to utilize AI in any way to help with your ADHD. So Ian, let’s kind of take that and, and combine it with just tech or digital tools in general.

[00:41:19] What have you found useful to help, um, when it comes to managing your ADHD scheduling, you know, time management, productivity, all that stuff.

[00:41:30] Ian Anderson Gray: Well, so I, I want to preface this in saying that for some people like AI is, Like the new technology can be overwhelming and will explode people’s brains. And so, but you kind of like, if you can get over that, for me, I’m immensely excited about using AI to help me. It’s like in, In preparation of coming onto the show, for example, I had so many things that I wanted to talk about.

[00:41:56] I was thinking, Oh my goodness, like, like I’m going to be asked this, like, I knew that you were probably going to ask me, how would you explain what ADHD is? You know, what is it? And so I had, so I actually used AI to kind of go back through some of the stuff that I’d talked about and not, not to tell me what I was going to say, but to give me an idea to move me from a blank piece of paper to To something which I can then tweak and put my own creativity in.

[00:42:26] So like tools like chat GPT or whatever, um, have been so helpful to getting me off the blank page, uh, into kind of creating stuff, uh, some summaries of meetings, um, and like, I remember Jeff, when we went to creator camp. I actually kept this audio note that was converted into chat GPT summaries of, uh, what was happening every day.

[00:42:52] Um, I use Notion to, I’ve built my own kind of CRM. So I basically put all, everyone I know it, well, most people I know, uh, into there. And then I’ve linked them up with which events I’ve met them at. So I can go in there and I can see. Every event that I’ve seen you, Jeff, in it, and that is bright, brilliant, because it’s basically like my second brain or it is my brain, basically.

[00:43:17] Um, I’ve become like a cybernetic organism. Uh, and then there’s obviously there’s, I mean, Google Calendar at the moment, I mean, and maybe someone can correct me on this, doesn’t have AI. I’m a little bit nervous about putting AI into organizing my week. I don’t think we’re there yet, or I’m not there yet because I want to have some control over that, but I think with some of the processes, it can be really helpful.

[00:43:47] Um, so things like that, um, but there were other, some kind of non AI tools. Uh, so I do want to big shout out to, um, things like Apple AirTags. I no longer forget my keys. I know where they are. Uh, there’s tools like BrainFM. I use that. All the time with my noise cancelling headphones because it just gets rid of any distractions.

[00:44:09] It helps me go to sleep. So BrainFM basically, it plays sounds and music to kind of either Uh, get rid of distractions or it helps you actually focus on what you’re doing. Uh, and I use that all the time. Um, things like reminders, whether it’s Apple reminders or whatever it is to, to help you like with shopping lists, uh, read wise, I use that to keep a track of all my, all my books, uh, and things like that.

[00:44:33] I could go on, but there’s a

[00:44:35] Jeff Sieh: yeah, so I think that’s, I mean, ReadWise is great. You have a follow up you were going to

[00:44:40] Conor Brown: I have a follow up to that because this is just me personally, getting started with Notion I find

[00:44:45] so daunting because I get overwhelmed and my brain starts going a hundred miles an hour when I just see the blank page and, and that I can set it up anyway almost fills me with more anxiety versus someone just saying, this is how you should do it.

[00:45:01] So Ian, I’m curious when you started with that, was it. Buying templates, was it you knew exactly what you wanted or did you just kind of go in and go crazy?

[00:45:11] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. Yeah. So like it was, so hopefully this is encouraging. I think I was overwhelmed. I watched all these YouTube videos and I probably got hyper fixated or hyper whatever it is. I was thinking, Oh my goodness, there’s all these amazing opportunities and all these amazing YouTubers talking about it. But I realized that a lot of them was spending all this time making it look beautiful.

[00:45:34] And I’m not against, like, I, I think that’s all great. Uh, but what I thought was, and I bought lots of templates. And so, do you know what, what’s always helped is start simply and build. So I knew that I wanted to create a way to help me remember the people, like friends, contacts, and where I met them. So all I did, I didn’t worry about the way it looked.

[00:45:58] I just created a really simple database in Notion with people’s names. Um, and. Links to places. And then I created another database of events that I’d been to. And then I linked the two together. So you can have database of contacts, database of places. So it could be places like, you know, Ecamm, Creator Camp, social media, market world, uh, whatever.

[00:46:21] And so I can link. Two together. And I think that’s what I love about Notion, you can create databases and then link them together. Um, and so I just create, made it really simple. And then now I’ve got a, a travel database and I’ve got, uh, my stuff database. So I’ve got all, all my like cables and all that kind of stuff and, and tech, and I’ve got that in there.

[00:46:42] But I didn’t start off with that. Oh my goodness, no way. I just started simply and built it over time. So I would say just, just start like that. Don’t worry about making it beautiful. Mine’s still not beautiful. Um, maybe I will make it beautiful at some point, but it just works. And at the end of the day, you know, the, these tools are to help us,

[00:46:59] Conor Brown: see you

[00:47:03] Ian Anderson Gray: I’m not against spending time making them look beautiful, but that, that’s kind of more, that’s actually not going to help you. It might give you fun along the way. And that’s, I’m not saying that’s a bad thing, but a lot of these YouTubers, they’re just kind of like having fun building the system as opposed to thinking about what it actually, what problem it actually solves at the end of the day.

[00:47:25] And I think that’s what you need to focus on.

[00:47:27] Jeff Sieh: So what I’ve did, because I, now my life is in Notion. As I bought template and the one I use is Tomix, uh, cause I wanted to do second brain. I wanted to do something that would have my content because as I got more and more clients and doing more and more shows, I could easily miss things. Like I, so I have checklists for each one of those things and I am very disciplined now that I can go checklist.

[00:47:48] And so I can know where, who has what, where are things at, what content I put out on the different platforms. And it sounds like a lot, but the peace of mind that I have that I can look at that and go. Oh, that is done. Okay. I can move on to the other thing. So I bought a template and then don’t do the, I mean, there’s some things that I don’t even use on it, but it got me set up to start.

[00:48:08] But like Dustin says, like, he is like, he, he’s like Huey and he goes, he’s the same way, start simple and build from there. Perhaps take bits of inspiration from the templates I find. And even when we had Kat, uh, Milliville on our show, she was talking about, You know, just do it like that, you know, make it your own or buy one.

[00:48:24] And don’t worry about the stuff you’re not going to use. Don’t stress about it. I think either way, as long as you get it and you are disciplined enough to do that, I think it was important. Another thing from Dustin I want to pull up is Pomodoro definitely helps me so much that I built an app for it specifically for Outbest works with my flows.

[00:48:41] So Dustin is a little bit of a genius and kind of makes me mad that he can do that. But, um, I use a Pomodoro technique called Focus To Do, which puts actually my. Task lists. And I can go through each one and have that time. It’s really good. Like you said, Ian, for stuff that you don’t want to do, like, okay, I’m going to work 20 minutes on my, or 25 minutes on my taxes, which I just, but I have to have that timer to make me get focused.

[00:49:05] And, but if I’m working on something like preparing for a podcast or in it, I need to go over that. It’s fine. Like you said, have flexibility. So, um, back to ADHD and kind of this, this time management thing. Is there anything else, any advice you have for

[00:49:21] entrepreneurs, uh, that have or struggle with ADHD in terms of managing time and setting, Realistic goals, because I know you and I have talked before, it’s like, we, we say like, I’m going to do all of this, and I’m going to do it in the next day, and then we’re like, then we feel bad because we, the day went by and like, we’d got maybe one of the tasks that we, we have trouble figuring out what we can actually do versus what we want to do.

[00:49:47] So how do you manage time and set realistic goals for yourself?

[00:49:52] Ian Anderson Gray: yeah, you’re speaking my language here. Yeah, it’s so I’ve mentioned that the way we kind of experienced time differently, but also we tend to kind of, you know, I’ve not mentioned the whole dopamine thing. You know, we, we, it’s difficult to get the dopamine, which is that kind of hormone that gives us that positive feedback on things.

[00:50:14] And so we, and a lot of us tend to be perfectionists and compare ourselves with others and think, Oh, I’ve got, I’ve got all this stuff that I need to do. Uh, and just like the feeling that you, that you know, you’re going to do it sounds amazing. Uh, but then you forget that. Most of those tasks aren’t actually tasks.

[00:50:36] They are tasks of tasks of tasks. They’re projects. So, uh, and you don’t also know about other distractions that are going to come in, in that day, like a phone call or somebody comes to the door or an email has popped in and you got distracted. And then you get to the end of the day and you’ve probably done like 20 tasks. But there weren’t probably about two of them were on the list. And so I think having a little bit of flexibility here is, is, is good because, you know, you just need to be aware that that’s going to sometimes happen, but this is why having some kind of, um, to do app where you’re listing things, but getting that help to break them into those Uh, actual tasks, as opposed to projects, uh, again, getting help from maybe a virtual assistant, ideally, and a virtual assistant who understands the way the ADHD brain works is, is helpful as well.

[00:51:43] Um, and, and, uh, and all this stuff that we’ve talked about before, about understanding the different zones that your tasks are in, if they’re all financial and to do with taxes and bookkeeping, Good luck with that. That’s all I can say. Just maybe focus on one or two things for 15 minutes and then reward yourself afterwards with something because again, like it is, you know, that dopamine thing.

[00:52:05] We, you know, we, we don’t want to get addicted to those tasks, but we, maybe you’re okay. You can say, well, after that, I’m going to do something, a fun task, uh, as well. But yeah, be, I think be realistic with your goals. Because of that perfectionism. However, this kind of, I’m going to like almost contradict that, I think because of that potential for that negative self chatter, you also need to dream big sometimes.

[00:52:34] And I’ve, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve sometimes like think, well, I can’t, I can’t achieve that because I’m no good at it. And actually, when I have given myself the permission to dream big dreams. I have ended up achieving those, uh, because, um, I’ve over time, I’ve built those strategies to get there. So yeah, hopefully all that helps.

[00:52:57] Jeff Sieh: so I know we’ve talked about this before, is a lot of times we struggle with We compare ourselves to others and we don’t look back seeing how far we’ve come. Like if we look back to 2015, when we first met in the real life at Social Media Marketing World, yeah, we would have never dreamed what we were doing right now and who we were working for and the project we’d be able to do and accomplish and continue to work.

[00:53:17] So, It’s trying to create that new groove in your brain. Instead of comparing yourself to others, look how far you’ve come. And that’s something I think, you know, you and I’ve talked about a lot. So, um, by the way, something that, you know, it’s good. And it’s something you can train your brain to do is, is our friends over at Ecamm.

[00:53:35] That’s right, folks. Ecamm is who sponsored the show. You can find out more about them at Ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. I know Ian uses them. Uh, they’re an amazing company. They help support the show. They, you know, they believe from the show, from the beginning, I’m very thankful for them and it’s amazing tool.

[00:53:50] Don’t forget about the Leap. Into tools and tactics that’s coming up here in next month. You can find out more about that at leap. ecamm. com, leap. ecamm. com. I’m going to be talking about some of my favorite AI tools for creative showmanship and strategic repurposing, how I use it for this show. So it’s going to be a fun time over there.

[00:54:07] So once again, leap at leap. ecamm. com. All right. So now let’s, let’s dive into this. This new project that you’ve been cooking up for a while. Ian, I know you’ve talked about this for a while. We’ve talked about it in our masterminds and stuff. Um, but, uh, yeah, Connor, I know you had a question about it as

[00:54:24] Conor Brown: Yeah, I’m excited about this of the Smart ADHD podcast, a new launch, new show, all that fun stuff. So I know Ian, you kind of talked a little bit about hesitations, but what inspired you to one

[00:54:37] launch this podcast? And two, what were some of those hesitations that you might’ve had initially when it came to starting this?

[00:54:46] Ian Anderson Gray: I love the way you ask that question, focusing on the positive first, because I would always like focus on the negatives first, but yeah. So like, for me, going down the ADHD route and realizing that I had ADHD and that my brain works differently, took away so much guilt and has helped me. Become much more productive and, and just this, that understanding is it’s been amazing.

[00:55:12] And I’ve spoken to so many other people who have had similar experiences. And so I I’ve always kind of known I was different. Uh, and I also, I questioned my own intelligence. And so I think that was part of it, but also, um, so I met, uh, This ADHD coach called Dr. Tamara Razia, I came across her on YouTube. I invited her onto my other podcast.

[00:55:38] We became really good friends. She became our ADHD coach and we were just talking about this. And I was thinking, Oh, I’d really like to, to launch a podcast about this. And she said, you need to do it. You need to do it. And like, she’s quite a big name in the, in the ADHD expert world. And so I kind of felt compelled partly because she was saying I should, but also like, I had this feeling inside of me that.

[00:56:02] I just kind of almost felt like I should be doing this, like I, I said, I, I came up with. Something a few years ago, uh, which was like one of what I really love is to, what I really love to be is like a catalyst for the transformation in people’s lives. And it, and I feel that this podcast could, could be that, but, and, and yeah, so, but there’s a, there’s a big but, and the but was that, well, yeah, okay.

[00:56:30] Lots of people have been struggling, but, um, It’s, there’s still a lot of stigma attached to it as well. And, you know, some people have said to me, yeah, Ian, you shouldn’t do that because like ADHD people are seen as unreliable. Um, they’re always late for things. And while that might not be the case, you know, you might not get hired if you, if you say that about yourself and, you know, does, does, do you want that to define you?

[00:56:57] So there was that. And the fact that I’m calling it smart ADHD as well, like, and I have, I have this double, I have a double problem here because like, first of all, as I said, people with ADHD tend to question their intelligence and they have that kind of low self esteem, but also I’m British, like, and as Brits, we don’t tell, you know, we don’t kind of like tend to kind of talk about our successes.

[00:57:20] Like, this is why I love spending time with you Americans. Not that you’re all like this. I want to. paint stereotypes, but like in the UK, we don’t want to kind of like

[00:57:29] Conor Brown: rest

[00:57:30] Ian Anderson Gray: big ourselves up. And I’m not saying I’m like super intelligent, but I think I’ve realized I’m probably more intelligent than I was giving myself,

[00:57:37] Conor Brown: Take care.

[00:57:39] Ian Anderson Gray: uh, permission

[00:57:39] Jeff Sieh: say, say it, credit for, you can say it Ian, I know you’re British. It’s hard to say, but you can say

[00:57:43] Ian Anderson Gray: No, no, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t even bring myself to say, but that that’s the focus of this podcast is, uh, for smart people with ADHD, but it’s not just smart people. It’s also smart strategies. So even if you feel you’re not smart. It’s all about smart strategies. Um, but yeah, the other thing is if you are smart, then often you have learned tools to help you counteract your ADHD symptoms.

[00:58:06] Some of them are really good and some of them are really bad. And I’ve realized, so this is again, something from Dr. Tamar Razia. She talks about the six bad tools that we tend to use and the things like using anxiety, procrastination, avoidance, self loathing and shame and anger. Uh, and those tools can really affect you in a negative state, um, a negative way.

[00:58:28] And so that’s why I feel it’s so important to do that. And so that’s why I’m launching this podcast and YouTube channel.

[00:58:37] Jeff Sieh: So this is an interesting question. I just do it because I know you do a confident live and that’s another part of your brand is helping people go live, you know, easily and confidently. Um, but you’re doing this one as a prerecorded show. Is there a reason you did this? Is it because of, um, you didn’t want to stress about it or, or why did you do it this way?

[00:58:54] Because I mean, you, you do, you excel at doing, going live and you actually remote produce for other people. What’s the reason behind doing this way?

[00:59:02] Ian Anderson Gray: And I’ve actually done it the same with Confident Live Marketing Show. I’ve actually switched that and I don’t do that live. I am going live. Occasionally with that. And, uh, I, so I had, again, I had this negative voice saying like, Ian, like it’s called the Confident Live Marketing Show and you’re not going live.

[00:59:16] And somebody said to me like, Ian, you’ve already demonstrated. That you know what you’re talking about when it comes to live, so it’s okay. So for me, the, uh, for this new podcast, we’re doing short episodes. So we’re trying to make them 20 to 25 minutes long. So I’m trying to cut out as much waffle and trying to get straight to the point, um, to make them, I suppose, ADHD friendly with that, that time.

[00:59:38] And, uh, we’re focusing on. I suppose it’s education, addressing myths, specific topics as well. So the advantage with, with that is that in that one hour of time, I can then, I can record two. Two episodes. So that’s really good. I can batch them as well. I can do multiple times today. You, you could still do that with live.

[01:00:01] Um, but I, that’s really helpful. So, um, uh, and I, so I can be more flexible. I love live. I still do it, but to be honest. It, at the level of the frequency I was doing it at before it was draining, uh, I find live very exciting, but it also drained, drained me a little bit too. I felt like I needed to change.

[01:00:23] Also, not all guests are going to be comfortable with live, uh, particularly, you know, moving out of the marketing and social media space. Not everyone is techie. Um, and I’ve got longer episodes. So the 20 to 25 minute episodes are with guests, expert guests.

[01:00:38] Conor Brown: let me

[01:00:39] Ian Anderson Gray: Um, I’m interspersing those episodes with, uh, I’m bringing on smart entrepreneurs, business owners and creatives who have been navigating their lives with ADHD on to tell their story.

[01:00:52] And we’re doing the opposite. So we’re actually doing really long episodes. So the recent one was almost 90 minutes and we’re going deep into their story and, and ah, I’m so excited about those. The expert episodes are really exciting too, but actually allowing people to speak, uh, and. We can actually really get into that.

[01:01:11] And you can imagine if that was live, sometimes they might get onto a sensitive topic and subject. And I want to have the sensitivity. Maybe if they don’t feel comfortable with that, we can maybe edit it later. I think in most cases they won’t, but I think that wouldn’t work so well for live.

[01:01:27] Jeff Sieh: Those, those are great points. I was just curious because of, of that. So, so make sure you guys check out Ian’s uh, podcast, the smart A DHD podcast. You can find That’s where you can go and you subscribe. Make sure you subscribe, listen, and then leave a rating and review. That always helps new podcasts out.

[01:01:46] And also you can find Ian at, uh, what is it? I, uh. What is it? E I G. I can’t, what

[01:01:53] Ian Anderson Gray: I’m just going to let you, I’m just going

[01:01:54] Jeff Sieh: it. Oh, I’ll

[01:01:55] Ian Anderson Gray: over there. It’s

[01:01:58] Jeff Sieh: England?

[01:02:01] Ian Anderson Gray: iag. me is the, the other website.

[01:02:03] Jeff Sieh: Yes. So then you can get all this confident live stuff, all his podcast things there. So make sure to check him out.

[01:02:09] Uh, Connor Brown. Where can people find out more about the unsinkable Connor Brown?

[01:02:13] Conor Brown: You can go to www. opinion. com and follow me at www. opinion across the socials. for

[01:02:26] Jeff Sieh: slash Jeff. That will give you the actual, like, if you enter the code JEFF15, you’ll actually save 15 percent on your first purchase, so make sure to do that. Ecamm. com forward slash Jeff.

[01:02:36] And, uh, thank you, Ian, for this. Thank you for you guys, all your great comments. Uh, Gary says, a great discussion today. Gents, enlightening. Have a happy Easter. Have a happy Easter as well. Hope you guys all have a great Easter with friends and family. And, uh, Dustin says he’s always been jealous of that three letter domain name, Ian.

[01:02:54] Uh, so yes, one more thing. Thank you guys so much for your comments and questions. As if you’re watching this on the replay, uh, ask your questions. I know Ian’s going to be following on the comments. We’d love to help in any way we can, but we thank you guys so much. We’ll see you guys next week. Have a great one.

[01:03:09] Bye everybody.

Mixing Business with Tequila with Jay Baer

🔔 We’re excited to welcome Jay Baer for a fascinating episode, “Mixing Business with Tequila.”

Tracing Jay’s roots from Arizona to becoming a global tequila influencer, we’ll discuss his unique journey into the world of tequila. From learning about agave spirits at Los Sombreros to sharing his wisdom on Instagram and TikTok, Jay’s path is a case study in transforming a hobby into a thriving business. We’ll cover his strategies for engaging content, his collaboration with Maddie Jager, and how tequila stole his heart and turned into a professional pursuit.

Catch Jay’s invaluable insights for turning your passion into a profitable venture! 🚀

That’s the Spirit! How to Turn Your Hobby into a Successful Business

Lets talk about hobbies—a source of relaxation, joy, and sometimes, an escape from the daily grind. But what if your hobby could become more than just a pastime? Imagine transforming that passion into a thriving business. This dream scenario isn’t as far-fetched as it might seem. Across the globe, countless individuals have taken the leap, turning their hobbies into profitable ventures, proving that doing what you love can indeed be both satisfying and financially rewarding. Among these inspiring stories is that of Jay Baer, who has masterfully turned his fascination with tequila into a booming online presence, bridging the gap between personal passion and professional success.

Tequila Jay: From Enthusiast to Influencer

Jay Baer’s evolution from a tequila aficionado to a celebrated influencer is a compelling example of how hobbies can morph into lucrative careers. What was initially just a personal interest became the cornerstone of his professional identity. The success Jay has achieved by merging his passion for tequila with his professional life highlights a crucial lesson for aspiring entrepreneurs: the significance of finding a niche where personal interests and professional skills intersect. Jay’s journey exemplifies how leveraging one’s personal expertise and genuine interest in a subject can create a compelling, authentic brand that resonates with audiences. He didn’t just share tequila reviews; he shared his journey, making him a trusted and relatable figure in the tequila community.

Before embarking on his journey as a tequila influencer, Jay Baer established himself as a powerhouse in business growth and customer experience. As the founder of the influential consulting firm, Convince & Convert, Jay honed his skills in digital marketing, brand strategy, and customer engagement. This unique blend of professional experience and a deep-seated passion for tequila positioned Jay to transition into a tequila influencer seamlessly. His background allowed him to approach the tequila industry with a marketer’s acumen and a storyteller’s flair, creating content that educates, entertains, and inspires, proving that when professional expertise meets personal passion, the result can be intoxicatingly effective.

Monetization Strategies

Jay’s exploration into monetizing his passion for tequila illuminates a journey of experimentation and strategic shifts. Initially, Jay delved into various monetization models typical for content creators—affiliate marketing, direct sponsorships, merchandise sales, and the potential for courses. These ventures allowed him to test the waters, determining the feasibility of converting audience interest into a sustainable revenue stream.

However, Jay quickly recognized the challenge inherent in direct monetization from the audience. The expectation of free content posed a significant hurdle unless offering something with substantial value, like a comprehensive course. This realization prompted a pivotal shift in strategy. Rather than relying on the traditional content creator monetization schemes, Jay identified a more lucrative avenue: partnering directly with tequila companies.

This B2C to B business model capitalized on Jay’s marketing expertise, offering tequila brands a package of services, including marketing consultation and content creation. The approach was a resounding success, with Jay securing positive responses from every proposal sent out. This strategic pivot not only optimized his revenue potential but also aligned perfectly with the US market’s dynamics, where the majority of tequila purchases occur.

Jay’s approach underscores the significance of understanding your audience’s consumption habits. With a large portion of the US tequila market focused on cocktails, Jay’s content strategy—to educate and engage around sipping tequilas and recommend affordable options for cocktails—resonated well with his audience. This insight into consumer behavior, combined with a shift towards a B2B model with tequila brands, marks a notable evolution in content monetization strategies, highlighting the importance of adaptability and market awareness in the journey of mixing business with tequila

Scaling the Business

The expansion of Jay’s tequila platform necessitated strategic assistance, leading to the indispensable role of Maddie Jager, his assistant for all business facets. Together, they embrace batch content creation, organizing shoots every three weeks to maintain a steady stream of engaging content. This efficient workflow, dividing responsibilities—Jay focusing on content ideation and initial edits and Maddie managing day-to-day operations, regular posting and client interactions—proved crucial. Their collaborative approach not only facilitated scaling the business but also ensured that Jay’s venture into the tequila world remained sustainable and poised for continuous growth.

Finding Inspiration and Content Ideas

In the realm of content creation, inspiration is as diverse as the audience you aim to engage. For Jay Baer and many like him, the quest for fresh content ideas is an ongoing journey, drawing from a multitude of sources. From the ever-evolving landscape of the tequila industry to personal experiences and beyond, inspiration can strike in the most unexpected places. It’s about keeping the senses tuned to the subtleties of the environment, conversations, and even the shifts in cultural trends.

Reviews of new releases or brand extensions offer straightforward opportunities for content, but Jay goes beyond the obvious, actively seeking audience participation to ensure his content remains relevant and engaging. By asking his followers what they want to know and promising incentives like gift cards for suggestions, Jay has created a feedback loop that not only fuels his editorial calendar but also deepens audience engagement. This approach is bolstered by tools like Magai (affiliate), which help him gather a wide array of questions and topics that might interest his audience.

It’s this loop of creation, feedback, and adaptation that keeps content relevant, engaging, and continuously evolving. In essence, the audience becomes a co-creator, influencing and inspiring the content through their interactions, making the process a collaborative journey.

Lifting Spirits: Balancing Education and Entertainment

Jay’s content strategy masterfully balances educational insights with engaging entertainment, making the world of tequila more accessible and enjoyable for a broad audience. This blend is crucial for captivating viewers, whether they are tequila novices eager to learn or aficionados looking to deepen their appreciation. Jay’s approach goes beyond simply presenting facts about tequila; it involves crafting stories and experiences that resonate on a personal level, making the spirit approachable for everyone.

By discussing a wide range of topics—from the basics of tequila mixology to deep dives into the profiles of premium sippers—Jay ensures that his content appeals to viewers across the spectrum of tequila knowledge. The inclusion of Maddie in his videos adds a dynamic layer to the content, providing a relatable entry point for newcomers and a refreshing perspective for seasoned enthusiasts. Together, they navigate the fine line between being informative and entertaining, ensuring that viewers come away with new knowledge and a smile.

This balance between education and entertainment is not accidental but a deliberate choice to make tequila, a subject that could easily become niche or intimidating, broadly appealing and engaging. Jay’s content serves as a bridge, welcoming more people into the tequila fold by choosing to address the larger audience of casual tequila drinkers while still catering to the interests of hardcore fans. This strategy not only broadens the appeal of his channel but also fosters a more inclusive tequila community.

Mastering the Mix: The Art of Experimentation in Tequila Jay’s Content Creation

Jay also highlights the role of experimentation in cultivating a successful online presence. Jay has embraced a spirit of innovation, continuously testing and adapting his strategies to resonate with a diverse audience. This commitment to experimentation isn’t just about trying new things for the sake of novelty; it’s a deliberate effort to engage and educate his audience in the most effective ways possible. Whether it’s exploring different content formats, experimenting with posting times, or even altering the first sentence delivered in a video, Jay’s approach is rooted in a deep understanding that the digital landscape is ever-changing, and staying relevant means staying agile.

Jay reinforces the idea that content creation is as much about psychology and attitude as it is about the content itself. He illustrates that having an appetite for experimentation can lead to profound discoveries about what truly captivates an audience. This mindset has enabled Jay to navigate the complexities of social media algorithms, audience preferences, and content trends, all while maintaining the authenticity and educational value of his tequila content.

A Final Toast: Mixing Business with Tequila

Throughout this exploration into Jay’s journey from tequila enthusiast to influential content creator and business innovator, we’ve delved into the mechanics of turning a deep-seated passion into a thriving business. Jay’s story highlights the importance of identifying a niche and the undeniable value of authentic content creation and audience engagement. His interactions with notable personalities like Guy Fieri and The Rock, exemplifies the potential reach and impact of pursuing one’s passions with dedication and strategic insight.

This narrative serves as a compelling invitation to reflect on your hobbies and interests, contemplating their potential to morph into a successful business venture. The digital landscape offers an unprecedented opportunity to share your passions with the world, and Jay Baer’s journey is a testament to the possibilities that await when you strategically navigate your path from passion to profession.

If you’re inspired by Jay’s story and curious about turning your own passions into a business, or if you’re simply a tequila aficionado looking to deepen your knowledge, we encourage you to dive deeper into Jay Baer’s world.


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live. So glad that you’re here today. I’m so stoked for this show. We are not drinking, it’s too early in the morning, but uh, we’re going to be talking about some tequila today and some other things. This is going to be an incredible show, so If you are wondering, like, how can I make something that I really love a business or, you know, you want to take a hobby and maybe move it to something to have and maybe make some money with it, um, this is going to be the show for you.

[00:00:27] So if you’ve got some friends who you guys have talked about that, maybe at a tequila bar like Connor and I have done before, uh, and you might want to mention, at mention them down below, call them into this conversation, uh, ask your questions today because I want to make this show all about you guys because, uh, that’s what we want to do for this show.

[00:00:43] But, uh, we are so excited to hear. That you’re here. Connor Brown, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:00:47] Conor Brown: I’m great. You’re saying it’s too early to start drinking. Why don’t you speak for yourself? How about,

[00:00:52] Jeff Sieh: You’re already loaded. Connor is already loaded. Yes, that’s true. So, um, let’s see here. Uh, Cast Ahead brought something up. Um, he says the stream isn’t live yet on Google Well, it’s not going to be today, Chris. He just wanted me to say Google because there is, Jay, there’s a drinking game that, every time I mention that on the show, Uh, Chris Stone takes a drink.

[00:01:13] Uh, so,

[00:01:14] Jay Baer: I love that.

[00:01:14] Jeff Sieh: there he goes. But this is going to be a great show. Um, ask your questions like we said. So, I want to have enough time for you guys to ask questions. So, I’m going to go ahead and start the show, kind of without any preamble. And we’re going to get started. Hello, folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not.

[00:01:34] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:01:41] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever wondered how to blend a personal hobby with professional success? Are you intrigued by the idea of turning a simple interest into a vibrant, engaging brand on social media? Or maybe you’re on the hunt for innovative ways to captivate and educate an audience while making your mark on a hobby you love.

[00:01:57] If these thoughts have crossed your mind, today is your lucky day! We are beyond excited to introduce a guest who seamlessly achieve just that. He’s an expert at merging the worlds of tequila and content creation, crafting a presence that’s both informative and irresistible. Jay Bear is going to share his adventure from being a tequila enthusiast to becoming a tequila influencer on multiple channels.

[00:02:20] So sit back, clear schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Jay, how are you doing today, my friend? This is awesome.

[00:02:29] Jay Baer: Great to see you, gents. Thanks for the time. Delighted to be here. Excited to talk tequila.

[00:02:33] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and we’ve got some, our friend’s already popping in, Gary is already, hopefully, California, maybe he’s drinking, says salute, and he says good morning, all you lovely faces. Dustin Stout, he’s another Google Plus guy, says, Jay Bear, yes, he is. Yes.

[00:02:48] Jay Baer: How you doing?

[00:02:49] Jeff Sieh: Yes. So, we are excited to have Jay Baer on the show and we’re going to be talking all about tequila today and his tequila channel.

[00:02:56] If you haven’t checked him out over on Instagram and TikTok, it is a, even if you’re not into tequila, which after you’re watching, you probably will be. That’s what happened with me. It’s, it’s a fascinating thing to watch how he creates content, what he’s doing over there. So make sure if you haven’t checked that out, that you guys go do that.

[00:03:12] But if you don’t know who Jay is, you really should, should. He is a business growth and customer experience, author, researcher, and advisor, A seventh generation entrepreneur. Jay has written seven bestselling business books and created a six. He has created six multi million dollar companies. He has consulted for more than 700 brands including Nike, Oracle, IBM, and the United Nations.

[00:03:35] An inductee into the Professional Speakers Hall of Fame, Jay was voted the world’s number one global guru for online marketing and number two global guru for customer experience. And in his spare time, he is the second most popular tequila influencer and educator on the planet. Jay, thanks for being here on the show today.

[00:03:54] Who’s this number one person? I always see you here talking about number two.

[00:03:57] Jay Baer: My friend is a realtor in Los Angeles, Rob. You know, it happens. And I should say, I should say, Jeff, I am the number two tequila content creator in the non celebrity division. Okay, so it’s not like it’s The Rock and me, or George Clooney and then me, or Kendall Jenner and then me. It’s Rob the Realtor and then me.

[00:04:16] So just in full, full disclosure.

[00:04:19] Jeff Sieh: Okay, is it close? I mean, are you guys like, is it like you go back and

[00:04:22] Jay Baer: Oh, he’s killing us. He’s killing us, but that’s okay. He’s doing a great job.

[00:04:25] Jeff Sieh: All right, anyway, so, and, and even Dustin says, I, was definitely more into tequila after watching Jay. Yes, and actually my daughter’s turning in. She better not be drinking tequila while she’s doing some work for me today.

[00:04:38] but thanks Abby for stopping by. So this is going to be a fun

[00:04:41] Jay Baer: Abby, you do you. You do you. Whatever you want.

[00:04:43] Jeff Sieh: That’s right. Oh, just don’t stay at home. anyway, so let’s go ahead and jump into this. I want to do a shout out to our friends, who are helping sponsor the show, our friends at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff if you enter code JEFF15.

[00:04:59] You’ll be

[00:04:59] able to,

[00:05:00] Jay Baer: testimonial, I use Ecamm every single day. I use Ecamm for every video. I could not like them more, both as a product and as a company.

[00:05:09] Jeff Sieh: yeah, it’s incredible community. if you want to say 15%, use code Jeff15 and you can save 15 percent on your first purchase, but it’s awesome that Jay uses them as well because they are amazing community. I’m going to talk a little bit about some, some of the stuff they have coming up in a little bit, but I want to dive in to this first section where we’re going to talk about taking your passion, to your profession.

[00:05:28] So Jay, what’s kind of sparked your initial interest in tequila and how did you realize it could evolve into a hobby? Into something that’s like part of your professional life now.

[00:05:39] Jay Baer: Very slowly and then all at once. I, I’m from Arizona originally and went to school in Tucson, which is right near the Mexican border. Drinking age in Mexico is ability to see over the bar. and so oftentimes when we were in our younger college years, we would go to Mexico for the weekend and sort of got, got entranced by that, that culture, et cetera.

[00:06:00] And growing up in Arizona, you know, you’re, you’re so close to, to that, part of the world, you naturally are a little bit more attuned to it. But when I was in my probably mid twenties, before our kids were born, I would used to go every Wednesday for tacos with my good friend, Tom Brekke. And Tom and I would go to this restaurant and bar in Scottsdale, it’s still there, called Los Sombreros.

[00:06:21] And they had an amazing bartender there, his name was Steve. And Steve was super into mezcal long, long, long before it became popularized. And he would, you know, secretly bring bottles back over the border, etc. So Tom and I would go every Wednesday and we’d just be like, all right, Church is in session.

[00:06:36] Teach us some things about mezcal. And so every week was a different bottle and different story. And we really fell in love with, with the production methods and the, and the variation of flavors and just the whole, the whole romance of it. And so over the subsequent probably 25 to almost 30 years now, I just learned more and more, about Agave Spirits, Mescal, and Tequila.

[00:06:56] I started visiting, producers in, Jalisco and, and just got more and more into it and just as a, as a hobby and, and started, you know, purchasing and drinking better tequilas for myself. And then, two years ago, next week, April 1st, when we started, two years ago, next week, I had sold my consulting firm, Convince and Convert, and, and stopped recording my podcast, Social Pros, which is still on the air, just not with me and the microphone.

[00:07:20] And. I said, you know, maybe I should take some of this time that I used to spend every week recording this podcast and maybe I should just, try and teach some people some things about tequila that I’ve learned over the years. And I’d never really done short form content. You know, I’d done a lot of long form content, books, you know, LinkedIn lives, hour long podcasts.

[00:07:41] I’d never really done the, you know, one minute kind of like, let’s just try that. So I started a new Instagram account, TikTok account and started making videos and they weren’t very good. But I kind of figured out how my style could fit that format. And, and within about four to five months, we had a couple hundred thousand followers and it’s really continued, from there.

[00:08:04] And now we’ve got, you know, brand sponsors and partners and, you know, it’s a real business, all kinds of stuff. And we’re, we’re in Mexico every 90 days visiting producers. It’s a, it’s a whole thing.

[00:08:14] Jeff Sieh: Wow. And it just kind of blew up and it wasn’t something you really were expecting. It was just kind of a fun thing you were going to spend some time on.

[00:08:21] Jay Baer: Yeah, no, it wasn’t. It was not like, Hey, I wonder if this could be a business. Now you always, you know, we all know a lot of creators, right? And, and, and I’ve been a successful B2B content creator for a long time. And so I sort of knew the mechanics of the deal, but I really wasn’t like, Hey, let me, let me start another business, kind of quite the opposite.

[00:08:43] Conor Brown: I

[00:08:44] Jay Baer: but then once he’s like, Oh, yeah. There’s a there there. It certainly helps to have built other businesses because you understand like, all right, here’s what we need to do for analytics. Here’s what you need to do for audience acquisition. Here’s what you need to do for, for sponsorships and packaging and things like that.

[00:09:00] So my previous experiences in B2B certainly helped, the monetization side of it, for Tequila.

[00:09:07] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

[00:09:08] Conor Brown: I think that’s awesome. I mean, it’s pretty incredible that you’re just only about to celebrate your two year anniversary, right?

[00:09:14] And it’s been so much and it’s so strategic in what you’ve done, but when kind of was that moment where you’re like, we can make some good money off, this can be a business. I’m sure you know, early on, you probably got a couple sponsors here or there. That was nice little extra cap, but you know, The step from that to big sponsors, to you’re doing events, you’re taking people on, on tequila trips.

[00:09:38] It’s, it’s blown up into this huge scale business. What was the, the kind of the crux of that when, when you decide or realized we can go all

[00:09:47] Jay Baer: Yeah, last year we tried a lot of different models, right? So we’re like, okay, what does affiliate look like? What does direct sponsorship look like? What does merchandise sales look like? You know, could we do a course like all the, all the, you know, different customary content creator monetization schemes.

[00:10:06] And so we, we tried a lot of those. we knew, we knew within about six months, Connor, that we could, that we could attract and hold an audience, right? So the eyeballs part of it, we, we knew we could do that. But then how do you actually turn that into revenue is obviously the, the question that’s, that’s tricky.

[00:10:23] So we tried a lot of Alternatives to directly monetize from the audience, right? So get people like you to pay me. And, and that is a very difficult model now, right? Unless you’re doing some kind of a course or some other kind of chunky revenue deal. it’s just hard because people are used to content being free, right?

[00:10:45] And if you say this content is not free, now you have to pay for it. unless you’re running an OnlyFans, it’s, it’s a little, you know, which is not really, not really my deal. it gets harder. So we finally figured it out and, and literally, like, to answer your question directly, three months ago,

[00:11:02] Conor Brown: Eccam,

[00:11:05] Jay Baer: mishmash of revenue, some events, some commissions, some sponsors, and it was fine.

[00:11:11] But then I said, well, okay, Let me think about this market for a second. There are 2000 tequila brands

[00:11:19] Conor Brown: socialmedianewslive. com, clubhouse, Yeah.

[00:11:40] Jay Baer: oh, this needs to be a B2C two B business. So we finally decided to, to change how we thought about it, instead of being monetized by the audience, be monetized by the tequila companies. And so now we’ve got packages that we, that we extended tequila companies where we help them with their own marketing.

[00:11:59] ’cause obviously I’ve got background in that. We create videos for them. We, we, you know, do a number of different things. as an annual kind of package. And, and once we kind of figured that out, you know, we put out 13 proposals and got 13 yeses. I’m like, Oh, got it. That’s what we’re going to do.

[00:12:18] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, and this is a rabbit trail that I, once again, that I love to go down because I think I’ve heard you say on a podcast that most tequila purchasing happens in the United States. It’s not in Mexico. And

[00:12:31] Jay Baer: 61 percent less number I saw.

[00:12:33] Jeff Sieh: so it’s probably lucrative to have, you know, this audience that you’re able to speak directly to.

[00:12:38] And also, and the educational side of it, I think you also mentioned on a show that

[00:12:44] Conor Brown: for

[00:12:46] Jeff Sieh: people drink tequila mixed. And so this whole education that you’re doing is, is really cool and, and

[00:12:53] Jay Baer: Yeah, it is interesting. Even, even now, three quarters of all the tequila consumed in the U S is consumed in a cocktail, right? Margaritas, Palomas, et cetera, ranch waters. and so while we often talk in our content about, you know, sipping tequilas, right, which are just, you know, neat in a glass, no ice, no lime, no nothing.

[00:13:13] one of the videos that we’re going to shoot next week is, A recommended list of tequilas for cocktails, all of which are under 39 a bottle because part and parcel, like that’s what most people are actually doing.

[00:13:28] Jeff Sieh: gotcha. Okay. Interesting. So I want to kind of take a little bit about and talk about scaling because like You, you know, the, the, the, you struck the gasoline. I mean, it struck the oil and it just started shooting out and you kind of got this thing like, okay, I can’t do this by myself. So, when and why did you start using Assistant?

[00:13:47] And you, can you maybe talk a little bit about how Maddie and what she contributes to the content, kind of, how that all works?

[00:13:53] Jay Baer: Well, it’s funny, I, I’ve worked with Maddie for a long time, Maddie Jager who’s, who’s on the videos with me and is also my assistant for, for all my businesses, for my speaking business and the tequila business. She does a lot of the client management as well for us, with our tequila sponsors and partners.

[00:14:08] She, used to live here in town where I live in Bloomington, Indiana. Her parents are family friends. When she was in college, she was an intern, from my consulting firm, Convince Convert. When she graduated was almost exactly the same time that I sold the firm. And so I went from having a staff of 25 very senior professionals doing my work to a staff of myself.

[00:14:30] And I was like, well, I think I’m going to need somebody. So I said, Maddie, you just graduated. How would you like to be my assistant? for, for all things. And she said, great. So she, she and I spent a couple of years, Where she was like halftime with me doing all the different things, and then halftime with, with other, folks that she’s helping.

[00:14:53] but now things have gotten so busy, especially on the tequila side, that she’s, she’s, essentially full time now, which is great. so we have, we have, we have daily, daily standups like, okay, who, what are we doing today? Both on the speaking side, like, you know, I’m leaving Sunday for a speech in Orange County, like, okay, what time sound check, you know, that kind of thing.

[00:15:10] As, as well as, What videos are we shooting next week? So she has a very interesting job, which is quite, quite a mixture of roles and responsibilities because she also does design and she, she also does all of the day to day social media posting, because I’m oftentimes on a plane. So it makes it hard to do that.

[00:15:27] so yeah, she, she does all the things. I basically hold microphones and she does everything else.

[00:15:32] Conor Brown: Thank you

[00:15:33] Jeff Sieh: So, and I, once again, I think I, I, when I was doing research that she, You batch content, right? It’s like she comes down and stays and you even mentioned that, like, if you watch, cause they’re in sequence at towards the end, things are a little bit looser after you’ve been sampling some of that stuff. So,

[00:15:49] Jay Baer: because of my schedule, my travel schedule, and she used to live in the same town, but now she doesn’t. So, we typically will shoot every three weeks, and we’ll shoot out usually ten videos, in a row, and we have a camera person who holds the camera, who’s a student at the university, and yeah, we, we, we try to set it up so that, The ones that require us to drink on camera, right, are, are towards the end because otherwise, like if you start all the drinking and then you got to shoot a bunch of videos afterwards, we learned this the hard way because we used to do a lot more cocktail videos.

[00:16:29] We used to make cocktails and it was sort of like, Hey, we’re not bartenders. We’re just real people. And this is how real people make cocktails in their kitchen and they screw it up and they don’t measure very well and just sort of like half assed cocktails. but we realized that content didn’t really perform that well.

[00:16:43] So we’ve kind of moved away from it. But we learned an important lesson because for a while there, we used to do the cocktail videos last. And that was a problem because if you’ve already had like six different tequila samples, and then it’s like, Hey, let’s definitely pour this granache or whatever, like my kitchen was like a disaster.

[00:17:02] My wife was like, what are you guys doing? I got to bring a mop in here. So we, we, yeah, we’ve learned a lot of, a lot of micro lessons, along the way about how to do this better.

[00:17:12] Jeff Sieh: and you probably, after you’ve done a filming session, just have like Uber on speed dial, so Maddie can get back

[00:17:16] Jay Baer: Well, the nice thing is our parents still live like just on the street. So, so I always tell her in advance, cause I’m the one who figures out the, the, I am the one who figures out what videos we’re going to shoot. So I always tell her, are we like, are we like DEF CON 2 or like DEF CON 4 in terms of you driving home?

[00:17:35] so, yeah. Her, her dad is a big tequila fan and a friend of mine. He will sometimes come, to hang out and ostensibly he’s supposed to be her driver, but sometimes she ends up driving him. So it doesn’t really work out the way it’s supposed to, but that’s, you know, what, yeah, what are you going to do?

[00:17:53] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. Oh, anyway, that was, I was just interesting. so that’s cool how she is. She kind of does everything,

[00:17:58] Jay Baer: Yeah. And then I do the, I do the first edit. So we, we take the videos, I do the, the initial edit, just kind of a slam edit to kind of get it to time because I don’t really, you know, we usually overshoot the content. we try to keep all our videos under a minute. We used to be a minute and a half, but this year we’re trying to keep everything under a minute so that it will actually run as a YouTube short. Which is so annoying that their limit 60 seconds. If it was 90 seconds, my life would be way better. because it’s hard to get it down under 60. We’ve got to cut out a lot of stuff. So we usually shoot and, and the, and the video, the raw video, depending on what we’re doing is usually like a minute 30 to a minute 50.

[00:18:39] And then I’ve got to go in and be like, okay, what are we cutting out to get this thing under a minute? and I do that. And then I use, Splashio, to actually do the final edits and do the captioning and all that jazz. Yeah, the

[00:18:54] Conor Brown: know, you’re talking about when this started, it kind of just filled a void of, Hey, I recorded a podcast each week. I’m not doing that anymore. Let’s, let’s build a time back up with it. You know, Jay, now, how much of, of this takes up, you know, your entire business time, right? I, I assume you probably scaled the amount of work you were doing with it as it scaled proportionately, but today, I know every three weeks you, you get a little, a little sauced and, and, record a bunch of videos. But,

[00:19:27] Jay Baer: video part is the easy part, yeah. Especially because we have so many clients now.

[00:19:32] Conor Brown: mm hmm.

[00:19:35] Jay Baer: like realistically it’s probably half our time speaking

[00:19:37] Jeff Sieh: Okay. And the rest is speaking stuff and, and what you’ve,

[00:19:41] Jay Baer: stuff. Yeah. So if you have speaking webinars and you know, B2B stuff, right? So it’s, it’s probably 50 percent B2B, 50 percent B2C now, which never ever thought that would be the case. and, and it’s pretty interesting. The other thing that has been fascinating is I get recognized in airports and hotels now, literally, literally every week.

[00:20:06] Literally. that’s Tequila J. Baer. 100 percent of the time I’m recognized for tequila. 0 percent of the time I’m recognized for the seven books, the 20 years as a BBB Thought Leader, podcast host. Nobody gives a shit. But you start making tequila videos and all of a sudden, you’re the celebrity of every, of every Hyatt lobby.

[00:20:28] it’s, it’s been hilarious,

[00:20:30] Jeff Sieh: Well, but you’ve got to admit, like you’ve, you’ve talked with people like on Instagram Live and stuff like The Rock, which you pretty much said his tequila wasn’t very good. And he was, he was cool. I mean, he was a cool, he was very cool. And, but, and then Guy Fieri, you had him on. I mean, you’re not just talking to other people who like tequila.

[00:20:46] You’ve got some big, big names coming on the

[00:20:48] Jay Baer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And more on the way on that front for sure. it is, it is interesting every once in a while the streams cross in a funny way though. I was doing an event a couple weeks ago, and, you know, speaking event and, and a guy came up to me afterwards. He’s like, when you walked on stage, I was like, I’ve, I recognize that guy somehow.

[00:21:10] And then you’ve realized like about two minutes into the speech, like that’s the tequila guy, who’s the keynote at our annual conference. Like what is going on here? Yeah. It’s kind of funny when people like, they’re like, wait, I didn’t know you did that. And then, and then, you know, the other way around, you get some people who are, you know, who are, you know, business fans and they had no idea that I also did tequila or whatever.

[00:21:30] So yeah, it’s. It’s kind of

[00:21:32] Jeff Sieh: cool. That’s cool. And of course you love it when your daughter works for you saying that you pronounce guy’s name wrong. Okay. Thanks. Thanks. But thanks, Abs.

[00:21:40] Jay Baer: It’s true. It’s Fieri, Fieri with an E, not a, not a R. And, and I will tell you, his representation is very adamant about making sure you get that right. In fact, we had like a whole special call before we did the live stream. We’re going to like, remember it’s Fieri, not Fieri. And I’m like, okay, good. I mean.

[00:21:59] You do you.

[00:22:00] Jeff Sieh: yeah. So hope if guy, if you’re watching, I’m very sorry. one of the things that, I wanted to bring up, first of all, I got some great comments from our friends. Gary says, tequila makes my fingers hurt when I drink it. People keep stepping on them. Well, at least it doesn’t make your, it doesn’t make your clothes fall off, Gary.

[00:22:15] So that’s good.

[00:22:17] Jay Baer: that. I might have to make a shirt out of that for our merch store, Gary. That’s, that’s pretty good

[00:22:20] Jeff Sieh: a good one. And Dustin says, I can’t have hobbies because they always turn into businesses, which is,

[00:22:25] Jay Baer: That’s true in his case.

[00:22:26] Jeff Sieh: yeah, it is. And you know, yes, he is. I’ve, I’ve seen him get carded. So he does get, he is old enough to drink. So,

[00:22:33] Conor Brown: for

[00:22:35] Jeff Sieh: that I want to talk about next is like the inspiration that you get for your content.

[00:22:41] Like, you know, this takes some time to do. You just can’t sit there and drink tequila and film it. Like, how do you come up with fresh ideas? Do you ever go like, I don’t know, I’m like plum out of, What to talk about, about tequila today, but do you, do you poll your audience? how do you like engage them in there?

[00:22:56] How do you find out what content you’re gonna, you know, batch out later with Maddie? Gotcha.

[00:23:02] Jay Baer: Yeah, it’s actually a whole variety of different, of different things. I mean, some of it, I just, you know, it just comes to me because I’m thinking about it or I see somebody else’s content or somebody asked me a question in the DMs because that is a good question. We should get that answered. So, so that sort of flotsam and jetsam happens all the time.

[00:23:17] And then some of it’s reviews, right? So somebody sends us a new or there’s a new release or there’s a new. Brand extension, like we should talk about that and see if we like it, etc. So that part’s pretty simple. But yes, we’ve had, we’ve done a post in the past where we actually went to the audience and said, what do you want to know?

[00:23:32] And if we actually use your question as a video, we’ll give you a gift card to our merch store. That’s been really successful. And I actually used Dustin’s product, Magida to actively say, okay, give me a hundred questions that people might have about tequila. Right. And some of those are. Or not video appropriate or whatever, but sometimes you get some, some gold in the river.

[00:23:52] And I’m like, yeah, that is a good question. And we’ll, we should answer that as well. So it’s, it’s, it’s a whole bunch of different sources and we try to, we try to, as much as we can, kind of keep the editorial calendar,

[00:24:06] Conor Brown: us

[00:24:09] Jay Baer: a Noah’s Ark. A little of this, a little of that, a little of this, a little of that, so it doesn’t get boring for people, but, you know, I wish I could say I’ve got it all figured out and I know exactly how the algorithm works and I know exactly what content performs, but I don’t, sometimes it, it surprises you and does way better than you think.

[00:24:24] And sometimes it surprises you and does way worse than you think. And if I knew exactly why and when, you know, I would, I would feel a lot better, but you know, you don’t know.

[00:24:35] Jeff Sieh: On, I’m interested to hear about like, I know you’ve kind of gone, usually it’s with celebrities, but Instagram Live and TikTok Live. Do you like doing that or how do you fit that in your schedule? Is it kind of a one off whenever? How do you kind of

[00:24:48] Jay Baer: Kind of a one off, kind of a one off and I do like it, right? Because it’s, it’s a, it’s a skillset that I’ve, I’ve got from doing so much podcast hosting, et cetera. So it doesn’t, it doesn’t bother me to do it at all. In fact, I enjoy it, but I, I find at least. So far for me, it doesn’t actually perform particularly well in terms of raw numbers, right?

[00:25:06] No, no excerpting the conversation and then turning that into a more conventional reel or what have you afterwards tends to do better. But, but the live itself, is a little bit trickier, for me, at least so far, maybe we’re not doing it right, but we haven’t really cracked, cracked the code on that just yet.

[00:25:22] So because we’re launching a new podcast, I don’t think we’ll lean into lives. A ton for the next probably six months, but towards the end of this year, we’ll, we’ll see where we’re at with all the different formats that we’ve already added YouTube and Facebook and a blog this year already. So we’re, we’re adding a lot of legs to the content stool.

[00:25:43] And since it’s literally just Maddie and myself, I’m, I’m cognizant of not, overloading the boat with too many effects.

[00:25:53] Jeff Sieh: So, you teased it, and I think it’s breaking news, your new podcast. You kind of said you’re, you want to talk about that just really quick?

[00:25:59] Jay Baer: Yeah, this, it is breaking news cause I’ve never announced it. We just signed the deals this week. it’s going to be called the Spirit Guides. It’s going to be a twice a month show both on YouTube and conventional podcast players where I interview other people who are influencers and content creators in the spirits community.

[00:26:15] So, the people who kind of do what I do for, for gin or vodka or rum or whiskey or bourbon, or wine or seltzers or beer, we’ll talk to them and probably some celebrities as well. Probably some other folks in the tequila community too. and the show’s going to focus on their origin story. As I mentioned, offline to Jeff and Connor, like nobody, nobody went to college to be a gin influencer.

[00:26:36] So like, how did, how did that happen and why did it happen and how, you know, the same way that for me, it’s really affected my life in terms of how I spend my time and getting recognized in airports. And like, it’s, it’s really become, you know, In some ways, the most gravitational pull, in my whole life.

[00:26:54] and, and that’s been something I didn’t really foresee. And, so those conversations I think are pretty interesting. So that’s what we’re going to do.

[00:27:02] Conor Brown: Yeah, super interesting. I know plenty of people probably are super interested in it. I know I am, because like you said, I like the origin story aspect of it because yeah, you don’t go to school for this. You can’t learn from a book about this, you just kind of do, but each person has their own unique story.

[00:27:19] For you, Jay, you know, this is something that it isn’t overnight, even though you started making content two years ago. It’s, it’s 30 years in the making because you had that passion for it for so long and that helped influence what you’re creating today. When it comes to that, Jay, when people come up to you and, and say, Jay, I want to do what you do.

[00:27:38] I want to turn my passion into a business, into a profit. What’s a good piece of advice that, that you give people?

[00:27:46] Jay Baer: Well, I think you just got to start, right? And this is almost a Gary Vee kind of philosophy, right? Like just, just start. A lot of people, don’t start because they want. It to be better before they start, right? They’re, they’re, they, they know it’s not going to be good when they start. And so they don’t start because it’s not going to be good.

[00:28:07] And the reality is nobody cares. Like it’s, it doesn’t matter. Like, of course it’s not going to be good. Like, you know, your first X number of podcasts, your first X number of videos, your first X number of blog posts are all going to suck. they just are. And that’s okay because you can’t really get better in.

[00:28:25] A fake test environment, right? You only really get better when you’ve got audience reaction to like use as data points. And so the, the best way to, to get there is to just be okay with imperfection and just start getting the reps because you’ll, you’ll get better every time when you’re like, Oh, that didn’t work.

[00:28:45] Why? Let’s try something different. You know, obviously you’ve got to have a mentality around experimentation and optimization to do that well, but most people, don’t start because they don’t think it will be good and it won’t and just be okay with that.

[00:29:01] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:29:02] Jeff Sieh: That’s great advice. kind of on that same note, I want to talk about, you know, your experience. So you had this, you’re consulting with tequila brands on, you know, like flavor and marketing. I mean, they’re coming to you going like, what works, Jay, on a tequila? So talk a little bit about how you’re leaning into your experience and customer experience to get this new business that is coming your way.

[00:29:24] Jay Baer: Yeah. And marketing. Maddie said it the other day, we were having our daily meeting. She’s like, did we just rebuild a consulting firm, but all the clients are tequila? I’m like, yeah, kind of. Didn’t really think that was going to happen, but I guess she’d go, you know, it’s sort of like dance, dance with the girl you brung.

[00:29:38] Right. Like I know how to run consulting businesses. And so we sort of built another one. but, but all the clients are tequila brands. so yeah, it’s, it’s absolutely. A transferable skill, both on the marketing side and the overall customer experience and kind of positioning side. One of the biggest challenges for tequila brands, is that there are so many.

[00:29:58] And, and in many cases, they don’t really know. Like, what specific section, subsection of the market are they going after, right? I mean, obviously America, Americans who drink tequila, great, but you’ve got to be like way more specific than that, right? And, and what is the occasion for your particular brand based on price point, based on flavor profile, et cetera, right?

[00:30:21] So are you the tequila that people bring on the boat? to make like quick, you know, quick and inexpensive mixed drinks. Are you the tequila that people drink, you know, by the fireplace, right? In place of a bourbon or a cognac or a scotch. like what, what exactly is your jam? Right. And, and we find that most brands, for whatever reason, Experience resources, what have you, don’t understand their ideal customer profile or essentially their personas well enough.

[00:30:50] And then what they end up with is a marketing strategy, which is sort of like random acts of marketing. and then that doesn’t work either. Right? So that’s one of the things that, that Maddie and I have really done taking, in her case, probably five years. And in my case, literally 30 years of experience in marketing and customer experience and saying, okay.

[00:31:07] Like what if we just named who the customer was and then let’s like talk directly to that person, right? Is it suburban moms, right? Is it, is it urban singles? Like what, who’s our guy, right? and, and then let’s align all the brand narrative around that.

[00:31:24] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, and I think that’s what’s so attractive about your channel is because you do hit a lot of those. Anyway, you talk about mixed drinks, but you also hit people like, you know, Chris Stone, who is a tequila lover, the, the sippers, the ones who want to sit in front of the fire, like you said. So you have that mix, but you’re not You’re not just pouring it into a mixed drink and like, hey, let’s shoot this back.

[00:31:44] Oh, that was good. I mean, it’s more you’re crafting that content, which I think is really, really, really what

[00:31:49] Jay Baer: One of the most important decisions we ever made was when I first, first, first started, said, okay, let’s do some math here. 40, approximately 40 million Americans have had at least one cocktail that includes tequila in the last 30 days. So the total addressable audience, is 40 million people.

[00:32:13] Conor Brown: us

[00:32:14] Jay Baer: Matchmaker is the app that the nerds use, okay?

[00:32:18] And it’s very similar to Vavino for wine or Untappd for beer if you’re in those communities. I’m sure there’s a whiskey one as well, I just don’t know it.

[00:32:25] Conor Brown: soon. It

[00:32:29] Jay Baer: 400, 000 people have ever downloaded that app. So that group of 400, 000 people, which includes me, is sort of the tequila nerd audience.

[00:32:40] So, as a professional marketer, I’m thinking, all right, which group do I want to make content for? A group of 400, 000 people, or a group of 40 million people? And we very intentionally decided to go after the larger audience, which is why, we are perfectly okay. You know, reviewing tequilas that are more popular, were perfectly okay, answering questions that tequila nerds might find rudimentary or basic.

[00:33:11] because we want to be the person who, who, who goes take you from here to here, right? Out there who are sort of taking people from here to here, right? That are, that are more like the 3 0 3, 4 0 4. We want to be 1 0 1, 2 0 2, and we’re totally okay with that. And, and that’s why at the very beginning, relatively early, I started putting Maddie in some of the videos because when Maddie started, she barely drank tequila at all.

[00:33:37] And, and, and so her, her flavor preferences were very tuned to, tequila newbie, like soft and sweet and you know, all that kind of stuff. And it was amazing because we would do reviews, especially in those early days. And I’d be like eight and she’d be five or I’d be. Oh, I’d be four and she’d be nine, right?

[00:33:56] And so there was a huge spread in, in what we thought was, was good. and that was amazing and really, really intentional. Now, as, as you would expect over the last two years, Maddie’s probably had as many tequilas as anybody. and so now her flavor preferences have changed quite a bit because she’s seen so many different tequilas and has been to Mexico and understands all the things.

[00:34:17] So now our scores tend to be, More aligned, which is a, is a natural by product of experience. so I’m going to have to get somebody else on their show who doesn’t, who doesn’t know anything about tequila. You’re going to get replaced by a, by a new, a new, a new newbie, maybe.

[00:34:33] Jeff Sieh: So, this is a great point by, and I agree with this by, Chris Stone. He goes, Jay does a great job of finding the best pound for pound tequilas where you don’t have to drop a hundred dollars on a great anejo and his lists are spot on. I totally agree. That’s what got me down the tequila train.

[00:34:47] So.

[00:34:48] Jay Baer: Yeah. I mean, there’s some, there are some great expensive tequilas for sure, but, but there’s also, not a correlation between price and quality, except at the very low end, right? Like, like you get, you get like a. below 30 below 25 like you’re you’re asking for trouble right because you just can’t tequila is very very very labor intensive even the big ones and and so you get below that price point it is essentially functionally impossible to make a quality tequila so at the very low end price matters above that though it is You know, there’s some, there’s some expensive tequilas that are terrible, and there’s some inexpensive ones that are good and, and all over that kind of quadrant map.

[00:35:33] So yeah, that’s, I appreciate that comment. We, we definitely try to make sure that, people aren’t, aren’t spending money unnecessarily.

[00:35:40] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It’s, it’s great. So go, if you are interested at all, go to, you know, Tequila J on Instagram or a TikTok and get some of those lists. Cause they’re really, really helpful. I

[00:35:49] do want to do a

[00:35:49] Jay Baer: if you do that, you’ll appreciate this. The reason we have all the lists is that we’re building the email list. So for us, the email list, the email list is all I actually care about. Right. So, so. Yeah. Yes, we get lots of people watching the videos and that’s amazing, but for us, the videos are what create people’s interest in giving us their email address and the email address then gives us the ability to reach our audience whenever we want without interference from Meta or ByteDance or, or Alphabet or anybody else.

[00:36:19] And of course that is a lesson I learned, you know, many, many, many years ago was a marketing strategist. So our, our in house mailing list is 30, almost 35, 000 now. which we’re really excited about because that allows us to do a lot of things outside the video realm, which, help our partners a lot.

[00:36:35] Jeff Sieh: Well, and it works because that got me on the Authentico 3 bottle special you had because it came as an email to me after I had asked for a list and I’m like, oh, that’s a good deal. I get a bottle for free and it’s stuff I’ve never tried before. And so it works. So it’s genius. real quick, I want to do another shout out to our sponsors, Ecamm.

[00:36:53] You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. one of the cool things that they’re doing, it’s that time again, folks. Yes, it is Leap Into Live Streaming. If you’re creating content feels like a crazy impossible task, some days you need to come to this virtual event. Leap Into Tools and Tactics is all about streamlining your, your, your, your content workflows by implementing some great efficiency, efficiencies through different tools and tricks.

[00:37:17] I’m going to be there April 24th to 26th, and you can learn my favorite tips for content. You can find out more about that at leap. ecamm. com. That’s leap. ecamm. com. So make sure to check that out. Alrighty. I want to go right to this, this is, I could talk to Jay for like hours, but I want to get into this and my daughter actually had a great question about this subject, about crafting engaging content, and she says, How much, Jay, are you paying attention to what other tequila influencers are doing, or do you not care and stay in your own lane as far as a content strategy?

[00:37:52] Jay Baer: Great question, Abby, both, you know, there’s, there’s, you know, there’s probably 10 other content creators that are doing it at scale. there’s a handful that are doing it at scale that, that have sizable audiences. So, and we know all those folks personally, you know, we’ve met them at different tequila events and what have you.

[00:38:14] so yeah, we’re always keeping one eye on, on what other folks are doing just for,

[00:38:18] Conor Brown: you

[00:38:20] Jay Baer: as you should. And of course, human nature is, if this thing is working, maybe we should do that thing as well, right? You fall into this trap of, of, unintentional mimicry. But I am very much aware of that trapdoor.

[00:38:44] And so we really do as much as possible try to stick to our knitting. and it’s like, we’re going to do what we’re going to do. And, and if people. Like it, great. If they don’t, we’ll, we’ll make adjustments, but we’re, we’re trying to not copy anybody else. I will say, that imitation is the highest form of flattery.

[00:39:02] And there’s a number of people out there who, who make content in my category who, who, have, have changed what they’re doing, to, to look an awful lot like what we do. You know, that’s always a little, whether it’s the actual topic of the video or the shot style or the music drops or, you know, the color, even the background colors, whatever.

[00:39:22] So, sometimes that gets a little, a little annoying, frankly, but, you know, what are you gonna do?

[00:39:28] Conor Brown: Yeah, I think all those things too, you know, are, are great ways to engage the audience and you’ve kind of perfected it, which is why you’re seeing so much success with that. But Jay, you said it yourself, like if YouTube could allow for. A minute 30, it would make your life a whole lot easier because creating that short form content in under a minute is so, so, so difficult.

[00:39:51] But we also know you got to hook someone right away, especially when it’s a short piece of content. For the art of the hook, Jay, you know, what have you, you know, learned strategy wise to, to really just engage people from the very get? Hmm.

[00:40:07] Jay Baer: we’re not where I want to be with that. we continue to work on different sort of first sentences. and, and even who delivers that first sentence. Is it Maddie? Is it me? Et cetera. We’re also now experimenting with some intro transitions, right? Where you’ve got some, some camera moves just to kind of stop the thumb for that extra two seconds to get into the, into the shot.

[00:40:33] it’s one of the things I’m. That’s a weakness for me because my background is in longer form content, you know, getting right into it in one second can be a challenge. So, we have a whole process of experimentation that we’re going through to, to get better at that initial hook. And I also feel like, like, I understand why it works because I’m a content consumer as well.

[00:40:57] But, I don’t know. I, I also feel like it’s a little bit disingenuous sometimes too. Like, you know, like seven secrets about tequila, right? I’m like, Jesus, dude, this is so lame. but, but I get it. Like I, you know, I understand, but yeah, it’s, it’s actually a great question and one that, that I, I know we’ve got to get better at and we’ve got a whole plan for doing so.

[00:41:17] Jeff Sieh: Well,

[00:41:18] Conor Brown: I

[00:41:18] Jeff Sieh: also.

[00:41:19] Conor Brown: because it seems like, you know, you’re intentionally, okay with experimentation. It goes back to the thing of the advice that you give to someone, who wants to take their passion and turn it into, you know, their profit, their profession. It’s just start, right? It’s, you’re not going to be perfect from the get.

[00:41:36] You’re still learning. You’re still experimenting. So I think, you know, And I hope you’d probably agree with this, that experimenting and, and being kind of addicted to experimenting and trying new things probably is the best way to get better over time.

[00:41:51] Jay Baer: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And, and it really is more about, a psychology and an attitude first.

[00:41:59] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:42:00] Jay Baer: And then how you actually do the experimentation. there’s a lot of different ways to get there, but you have to have an appetite for it. and, and I definitely have that appetite and have my, my whole career.

[00:42:13] It’s one of the reasons I got into digital so early as a matter of fact. Maddie, Maddie sometimes rolls her eyes because I’m literally never satisfied. and, and like every day I’m like, I’ve got an idea. She’s like, Oh, you have an idea. Surprising. I was like, so,

[00:42:32] Jeff Sieh: yeah,

[00:42:32] Jay Baer: yeah, it’s, it kind of comes to the territory.

[00:42:34] Jeff Sieh: Well, I also noticed on your channel that you’ve experimented with different thumbnails. Like are you constantly trying to see what’s gonna work and you know, how long does that test? This is very nerdy, but how long do you let a test run before you go? Okay. Time to change it up again and see if we can get a little bit more, you know, engagement or whatever.

[00:42:52] Jay Baer: Yeah. We’ve tried a lot of different thumbnails over time. Some of it’s just more workflow and some of it is actual intentional, design style. Even with captions. Like we didn’t, we didn’t caption the videos for a long time, but then I sort of realized like, you know. I know you can get Instagram or TikTok to auto caption it, but I think it looks kind of crappy.

[00:43:08] And so, so often people are, are consuming content in those platforms with, with audio off. we just feel like it’s a better, a better approach. it’s, you know, usually about every 90 days is when we take a look at, you know, And that the actual thumbnails and be like, okay, should we, should we change this?

[00:43:31] Should we not change it? One of the things that we did about 90 days ago is we started taking all the photos intentionally, right? So we used to just take excerpts, you know, take a, take a frame from the video. And now we actually shoot a still photo before we shoot the video that we’re going to intentionally turn into the caption.

[00:43:47] And that’s, that’s actually, I think a better process and it looks a little better, but, Yeah, you know, that again, there’s so many, there’s so many factors, right? Like what’s the content? What’s the, what’s the thumbnail? What’s the hook? What’s the time of day? What’s the day a week? What happened the day before?

[00:44:05] So is the algorithm primed or, or, or cranky? it’s, it’s very difficult to isolate variables, which for somebody like me, who thinks like me is super annoying because, you know, I, I, I, you end up. I think at some level chasing ghosts, you’re like, Oh yeah, we got to do, you know, a different thumbnail. But the whole time it was actually what time of day you were posting or whatever, right?

[00:44:30] Because you can’t, you can’t isolate variables the way you would an email test in an email test, right? It’s like, okay, let’s the list four ways and send an email at four o’clock, six o’clock, eight o’clock at 10 o’clock and see what happens, right? All other variables are the same. You can’t do that, in, in reels or, or TikTok, et cetera.

[00:44:47] And as a, somebody who spent a lot of time doing testing optimization, that. Frustrates me a lot. Mm-Hmm.

[00:44:53] Jeff Sieh: hmm. I’ll bet. And it’s, I mean, I had one the other day I was doing a short and like, I was getting great, you know, I was trying to do one all week. I was like, I’m gonna do one all week and see what happens. I got two when I, I was like, it was this, but it was, and it was like a huge person in our industry.

[00:45:05] I’m like, I don’t understand. It makes no sense. It was taking long. Anyway, I get, I get your frustration, on this content creation process. Cause you have, you do kind of have a mix of, you know, What I would call education, like you educating about tequila. And then you have entertainment, like the award show that you did, kind of, that had a different background.

[00:45:26] I think it was a green screen and you were dressed

[00:45:28] Jay Baer: No, it’s actually real theater

[00:45:29] Jeff Sieh: oh really? Oh, that’s pretty cool. but a different, it was entertaining more than it was educational. So how do you find the strategy for balancing those two things, educational content versus entertainment content?

[00:45:41] Jay Baer: We,

[00:45:42] Conor Brown: for

[00:45:45] Jay Baer: don’t do that intentionally. it’s. It’s sort of like,

[00:45:53] Conor Brown: we hope to

[00:45:59] Jay Baer: we do try to mix it up, certainly within each week and within each month so that it’s not the same kind of content every time. And I have learned a lesson and actually the awards is a great example.

[00:46:14] so last year, late last year, we did a Tequila J Bear, awards. And so we pulled our mailing list audience and said, okay, what was your favorite Blanco, your favorite Reposado, your favorite Agnejo, et cetera. and, and did it like a legit, you know, like a legit market research, and, and pulled all those awards together and then shot the videos.

[00:46:31] And so, you know, award for best Blanco, the award for best Reposado. And we shot out a whole week. So I think we did five videos in a row. Each day was a different award. And it worked really well at the beginning, but then every day it got worse. And I think it’s because it looks the same, even though it’s a different award, and people just got kind of bored of it in the feed.

[00:46:49] So I told you, next week we’re going to do a series called March Sadness, where we’re taking eight 8 bad tequilas and doing like a March Madness style playoff to figure out which one is the, is the worst of these tequilas. historically what I would have done is, is deployed those videos one per day for four days, but the lesson I learned on the the award show last year that Is that that actually doesn’t work.

[00:47:18] so what we’re going to do is March sadness, you know, bracket one, wait a day or two, March sadness, bracket two, wait a day or two, and actually like time release capsule out that content. because I think the algorithm likes that a little bit better. So, you know, this is the thing, like we, we, every time I think we’ve got it figured out, we learned something else, either good or bad, which is great.

[00:47:42] but also frustrating.

[00:47:44] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Yeah. Got it.

[00:47:46] Conor Brown: Let’s talk about like setup because I know I love the, you were in the theater for, for the award show. That’s so cool. But it seems like, you know, since you’re big on, on batching content and being very intentional, I have to assume that the behind the scenes, your studio, those sorts of things, it’s structured in a way to be very efficient because you, you want to get the right video, right?

[00:48:07] But you want to do it at scale. So what does your setup look like Jay? And how does it help facilitate this kind of content creation?

[00:48:16] Jay Baer: it’s something that we have changed over time, Connor, as, as we’ve gotten kind of more serious about this and put more resources against it, et cetera. But we do have some limitations, right? Again, I’m on the road every single week, right? So I can’t just shoot whenever, Maddie’s only here every three weeks.

[00:48:31] And so we got to shoot them all at once, et cetera, et cetera. Now, could we change some of those things? We probably could. we just haven’t yet. So we shoot them all in my house. so I’m downstairs now in my kind of business studio. Upstairs, we have the, the wall of awesome, which is hundreds and hundreds of tequila bottles.

[00:48:49] and, and that’s literally our dining room. And in fact, one of the great fights of my life, Connor, was convincing my wife to allow me to build all the shelves or buy the shelves, to put all the tequila bottles because now our dining room is dominated by a wall of tequila. And my wife was not all that enthusiastic about that plan. Because she’s like, look, this is, you know, this, this is where we live. I’m like, I understand. unfortunately we downsized to this house. I don’t have like a whole other room that could just turn into a tequila studio like I would have in the past. and so, yeah, we shoot up, in the dining room, which the lighting’s really good, which helps the audio is not perfect because they don’t have sound panels in there like I do in here.

[00:49:28] So the sound isn’t as good as I’d like it to be. and there’s a couple other issues. I have a dining room table. that we sit at in the videos and that table is iron and zinc, so it literally cannot be moved. So if we, you know, you need like four or five dudes to move it. So if we wanna move the table because we go in a different shot, we can’t do that.

[00:49:49] Right? So there’s definitely some restrictions to it. We actually thought very, very hard late last year about actually renting. a physical space here in town, commercial space and just turn it into the, the tequila shooting studio. And we may end up still doing that, because I’m already out of space on the shelves.

[00:50:09] And, and, and we, and it’s hard for us to come up with different shot locations, at home for a lot of reasons. So, it’s, it’s working fine now, but it’s definitely something that we have to continue to innovate and iterate on.

[00:50:25] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Everybody has to scale. And it’s, it’s interesting to hear the, the stories behind that. Like I, we can’t move our table. Like there’s certain things, you know, everybody has those limitations. Like I

[00:50:33] Jay Baer: Yeah, we’ve got, we’ve got a light, a big descending, like giant, it’s a very cool, almost like a museum piece chandelier. We can’t move that either. Right. So we, you know, it, it restricts like which shot angles we can actually accomplish, which is why we used to actually shoot with a DSLR. but now we actually shoot with my phone.

[00:50:51] I mean, the phones are pretty damn good now, but, but now we shoot with a phone and a gimbal, a DJI gimbal, just because it’s easier to kind of get. but it is, it is suboptimal, in some ways.

[00:51:06] Jeff Sieh: George says over on YouTube says, if you light the tequila bottles artistically, it becomes an accent wall and focal point. Yeah. But still it’s tequila bottles. And your wife, my wife would be feeling the same way.

[00:51:16] Jay Baer: Well, George, that’s why I got the ones with have lights, because it does actually look really nice with the lights and, and, and my wife had veto power on which shelves to get. So I’m like, okay, let’s get the nicest looking shelves and, and that way, it won’t be quite as objectionable. And so we’ve managed to manage to solve for that for now.

[00:51:35] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. So I want to kind of, oh gosh, man, it’s time. the, we talked a little bit and we’ve kind of danced around about talking about YouTube Shorts, which is probably, you know, you kill, I mean, you kill everywhere, but that’s probably your lowest compared to like Instagram or TikTok, right? So what is your strategy and what are you going to change to like, are you just putting everything out there?

[00:51:55] Are you repurposing everything on there? Are you gonna do some other content? What’s your thoughts on

[00:52:00] Jay Baer: two things. So, so right now we just repurposed there. We actually just share all the videos from Instagram and TikTok to shorts, automatically and some do, you know, okay. most do not great. but we also haven’t put a lot of effort there. So a couple of things. One is we’ve actually just had a call about this yesterday.

[00:52:19] We’re going to start posting it manually, we’ve been doing it automatically, and rewriting all the captions and, and rewriting, the headlines to make it a little bit more YouTube friendly, a little bit more question answer kind of a situation. I think that will help some. And then once we have the podcast up and running, so that’ll be another piece of content that happens episodically on YouTube.

[00:52:45] I think that will help as well. I probably also need to send an email to the house file and say, Hey, you probably stumbled upon us on Instagram or TikTok originally, but we’re also on YouTube and you’re probably spending time on YouTube. So subscribe to us there as well. we’ll probably do that also.

[00:53:04] and, and then we’ll see. I’m not, not prepared to create a YouTube only content yet outside of the podcast, but maybe eventually, cause it is, it is a nut we like to crack. Certainly.

[00:53:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Interesting. So, kind of the final question. I want to talk about, this is kind of some insight and influence you have on this now. And this comes from actually your newsletter, the, the Bear Facts that you put out twice a month. Just the, the one that you just sent out, which was, they’re really good.

[00:53:30] If you don’t subscribe to Jay’s newsletter, make sure you go to, jbear. com. And that’s if you’re listening on the podcast, j a y b a e r. com. And sign up for that newsletter. Really, really good long form content. But you talked on this last one about transparency. Like you mentioned the health problem you were, you were talking about and how you actually mentioned it on stage because you usually don’t do that kind of thing.

[00:53:52] Where’s the balance for content creators, especially like on TikTok and some of this real short form content of like the balance of empathy and transparency? Like, yours is very entertainment, educational about tequila. Would you ever go into that little bit more transparent Tequila J on that channel?

[00:54:12] Jay Baer: now. because I still have JBear Instagram, and Facebook and everything else and LinkedIn that’s more around speaking, et cetera. So one of the things we’ve talked about is, you know, the tequila channel is artifice at some level because I’m only talking about tequila and that’s only part of my life.

[00:54:32] And so we’re starting to experiment with, well, what if we just talked about all the things I do, not just that on the one channel so that you sort of let the audience, you As a human being, I’ve always struggled with it a little, frankly, not that I have anything to hide. I just, I don’t know. I’m old, right? So I, I, I grew up in a world where it’s like, I don’t give a what this person’s doing and why do they give a about what I’m doing? But I also understand that as a public figure, the audience wants to know the real you.

[00:55:05] They want to know what you’re really about, not just the produced 60 second videos. Like, I get it. So I’m trying to kind of get over my own apprehension there and, and keep it a little bit more real, whether it’s in stories, or reels, et cetera. So it’s definitely something we’re talking about. and, and then the question becomes, okay, well, if the tequila account becomes all my stuff, then what do I do with the other account?

[00:55:30] if anything, right? So it’s a little, a lot of this is a by product of having two accounts. Which we started that way on purpose from the beginning because who knew that the tequila thing was going to be anything at all. and then we also thought for a while that talking about tequila in the context of the speaking business was going to be a problem.

[00:55:48] And it’s been ended up being the opposite, right? So increasingly I’ll go do a keynote speech and I’ll do a tequila tasting for the executives. It’s like, it’s like a combo meal. so that, that whole thing is working really, really well. It’s actually a, definitely a differentiator now on the speaking side, a talk trigger, if I can quote my own book.

[00:56:06] So yeah, we’re, we’re point, point taken, right? Like I know it’s something that we’ve got to do. That’s the next step for us is sort of that Pat Flynn style. Let’s really connect with the audience on a personal level. It’s, it’s admittedly hard for me psychologically to get there, but I know it’s something we need to do.

[00:56:24] So, it’s, it’s an action item.

[00:56:26] Jeff Sieh: awesome. Yeah, I just thought that your article in your latest newsletter was really, really good. And

[00:56:31] Jay Baer: Thanks. And that was also really a hard one to, you know, that, that was one that I’ve been sitting on that for two years.

[00:56:37] Jeff Sieh: Wow. Okay. So once again, you guys need to go and sign up for his newsletter. one of the, the, I guess the last question we’ll kind of wrap it up with this is what are your thoughts on this TikTok ban?

[00:56:47] Are you worried because a lot of your content is over there? Are you just going to go over hard in on Instagram? What are your thoughts?

[00:56:53] Jay Baer: I mean, I don’t, I wouldn’t say I’m worried, but also, you know, my background is in politics. I, I, I started in politics.

[00:57:03] Conor Brown: all

[00:57:05] Jay Baer: in this current climate, like never say never. but it just seems nearly impossible to me that they would actually, institute a ban. That said,

[00:57:18] Conor Brown: see

[00:57:20] Jay Baer: Instagram, but there’s definitely a reason why we, why we’re spending more time and, and plan to spend even more time on YouTube.

[00:57:27] you know, and we’re also, we have a Facebook page, which doesn’t do very well, but it’s there. And, now we’ve, every single video we make also becomes a blog post at tequilajbear. com. Cause now we’re trying to, you know, play some organic, Google search, ranking games as well. So fully understand the need to be, available in a lot of different channels, but I, you know, I just don’t think it’s going to happen.

[00:57:49] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. Yeah. It’s, it’s interesting. You know, Gary says he doesn’t think we’ll see a ban, but he thinks it’s going to be a sale to American entity. So that could, we’ll see what happens with all this stuff, but.

[00:58:00] Jay Baer: Didn’t Oracle want to buy it at one point?

[00:58:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and then, yeah, there’s all sorts of talk, I guess, right now. But anyway, whatever happens, happens.

[00:58:07] Jay is doing it right. He’s got, you know, he’s been doing the content in both places, not just putting his, all his eggs in one basket. So that’s really real cool. Jay, as we wrap up, where are, what’s the best place that people can, find you and maybe one of your, a place to find one of your lists for the best tequilas, like a Blanco or whatever.

[00:58:25] Yeah.

[00:58:25] Jay Baer: Yeah, you bet. so, tequilajbear. com is the, is the main website for tequila things. and that’s got all of our merchandise and shirts and hats and tasting glasses and all the blog posts for all the different videos we’ve ever made. if you go to, jaytequila. com, j a y tequila. com, it will ask for your email address and we’ll send you our list of, of recommended tequila brands.

[00:58:51] so that’s sort of our base, our base list of just like the brands that we think are, are the ones that you should check out. That’s a good place to start.

[00:58:58] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Awesome. Connor Brown, where can people find the unsinkable Connor Brown?

[00:59:02] Conor Brown: I gotta go, to that website first to get one of those hats because those things are awesome.

[00:59:06] Jeff Sieh: Yeah

[00:59:07] Conor Brown: you can find me over at www. opinion. com and across socials at www. opinion. What a great conversation. This one was awesome

[00:59:16] Jeff Sieh: This was fun. Yeah, they’re all good, but this was really cool too. I gotta do a shout out for our friend Jason T. Weiser. He goes, not a tequila drinker, but a huge fan of Jay and Jeff as content creators and marketers. Always learning from these two. Jason, my friend, thank you so much for that. That was awesome.

[00:59:32] Thank you for all you guys in the comments giving, Gary, let’s see, some other people showed up, Dustin, of course, Jim, Jim Alt, Emily Kroom stopped by, saying hi and we appreciate. Yeah, we appreciate all you. Thank you guys so much for watching. Don’t forget about our sponsor of the show, Ecamm.

[00:59:48] You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Save 15 percent by using the code JEFF15 at checkout to save on your first order. And with that, we’ll see you guys next week. Bye, everybody.

The Future of Marketing with Robin Dimond

🔔 We’re thrilled to welcome Robin Dimond, the mind behind Fifth & Cor, for a timely session on “The Future of Marketing.”

Discover Robin’s journey from the foundation of Fifth & Cor to mastering omnichannel marketing and embracing cutting-edge tech like VR and the Apple Vision Pro. We’ll uncover how her strategies have transformed businesses and the importance of staying ahead in digital marketing.

This promises to be a session packed with actionable advice for marketers and business owners! 🚀


Navigating the Future of Branding and Marketing with Emerging Technologies

What is Omni-Channel Marketing?

Omni-channel marketing offers a seamless, integrated customer experience across all channels and touchpoints, leveraging various ways consumers interact with brands, from online to in-store. It’s about crafting a consistent narrative across platforms, ensuring every interaction contributes to a unified brand story.

Importance in Today’s Digital Landscape

In a world where consumer attention is divided across multiple platforms, omni-channel marketing is crucial for capturing and retaining interest. It harmonizes messaging, branding, and experience across all channels, strengthening customer connections and loyalty. Robin emphasizes its necessity for navigating modern consumer journeys, which often span multiple devices and touchpoints.

Omni-Channel vs. Multi-Channel Marketing

Robin delineates between omni-channel and multi-channel marketing, highlighting that while both use multiple platforms, omni-channel focuses on creating a cohesive customer experience. Unlike multi-channel marketing, where each channel might operate in isolation, omni-channel ensures consistency in messaging and brand experience across all platforms, meeting today’s consumer expectations for integrated brand encounters.

In essence, while multi-channel marketing spreads a brand’s presence across various platforms, omni-channel marketing weaves these disparate threads into a single, seamless fabric of brand experience. This distinction, as emphasized by Robin, highlights the evolution of marketing strategies in response to changing consumer expectations and the complex, interconnected nature of the digital landscape.

Navigating Digital Uncertainties: Adaptation and Diversification in Marketing

In the dynamic realm of digital marketing, agility and strategic foresight are paramount. Robin illuminates the path forward, emphasizing the critical need for brands to adapt to platform shifts and algorithm changes, diversify their online presence, and draw lessons from events like TikTok’s potential ban.

Adapting to Platform Shifts and Algorithm Changes

The digital marketing landscape is marked by its volatility, with frequent changes in platform policies and algorithms presenting ongoing challenges. The discourse around TikTok’s regulatory concerns underscores the importance of flexibility in a brand’s marketing strategy. Robin stresses the need for marketers to anticipate and swiftly adapt to such shifts to maintain effectiveness and resilience. This agility ensures that a brand’s messaging remains visible and engaging across the digital ecosystem, regardless of unforeseen changes.

The Necessity of Diversifying Platforms

In the digital marketing landscape, diversification is not just a strategy; it’s a safeguard against the unpredictability of online platforms. Relying too heavily on one platform exposes a brand to significant risks:

  • Algorithm Changes: Platforms frequently update their algorithms, potentially reducing the visibility of your content overnight.
  • Platform Policies: Sudden changes in policies or terms of service could limit your marketing activities or the type of content you can share.
  • User Migration: Trends change, and so do platform preferences. A once-popular platform may see a decline in active users, reducing your reach.
  • Bans and Restrictions: As seen with the uncertainties surrounding platforms like TikTok, legal and political actions can threaten your access to a platform and its audience.

Practical advice for effective diversification:

  • Evaluate and Engage: Understand where your target audience congregates online and tailor your content to fit the unique characteristics of each platform.
  • Leverage Cross-Promotion: Utilize your presence on one platform to boost your activities on another, facilitating a cohesive brand journey across your digital landscape.
  • Stay Informed and Flexible: Keep track of digital trends and be ready to pivot your strategy in response to the evolving digital marketing landscape.

Learning from TikTok’s Challenges

The potential ban of TikTok serves as a poignant reminder of the digital marketing environment’s unpredictability. Robin reflects on this scenario as a lesson in adaptability, illustrating the dangers of single-platform reliance and highlighting the necessity of a diversified, agile marketing strategy. To future-proof their efforts, brands are advised to cultivate a multi-platform strategy, invest in owned channels like websites and email lists, and foster authentic engagement, ensuring a stable and direct connection with their audience.

Building and Nurturing Online Communities 

In the digital age, Robin Dimond underscores the significance of building and nurturing online communities as a fundamental aspect of brand strategy, highlighting how these communities serve to deepen connections between brands and their audiences. Robin highlights both the power and the challenge of online communities in amplifying a brand’s presence and fostering customer loyalty. She notes that effectively managing these communities requires a strategy that’s both flexible and consistent, to maintain a coherent brand identity amidst the varied cultures and expectations of different platforms. This approach ensures that engagement across the digital landscape is unified, despite its inherent fragmentation.

Strategies for Engagement

  • Platform-Specific Content: Tailor your community engagement strategies to align with the unique characteristics and user expectations of each platform. This customization can increase relevance and foster deeper connections with your audience.
  • Active Listening and Engagement: Encourage dialogue by actively participating in conversations, acknowledging feedback, and demonstrating that your brand values its community’s voice. This two-way communication is essential for building trust and loyalty.
  • Consistent Brand Messaging: While the mode of engagement may vary across platforms, ensure that your brand’s core message and values remain consistent, reinforcing your brand identity and fostering a unified community experience.
  • Leverage Community Ambassadors: Identify and nurture relationships with key community members who can act as brand ambassadors. These individuals can help moderate discussions, generate content, and spread positive word-of-mouth.

Understanding Your Audience Through Data

Robin emphasizes that a profound understanding of your audience through data is crucial for any marketing strategy’s success. By integrating analytics and direct engagement methods, such as surveys and social media interactions, brands can achieve a detailed view of their audience’s preferences, behaviors, and needs. This combination of quantitative data and personal interaction not only enriches marketing strategies but also ensures they are more effectively resonant with the target audience, facilitating targeted and meaningful engagements.

 Tips for Data-Driven Strategy

  • Segment Your Audience: Use data to segment your audience based on behavior, preferences, and demographics. Tailored content and messaging can then be developed for each segment, increasing relevance and engagement.
  • Test and Learn: Utilize A/B testing to experiment with different content, messaging, and engagement tactics. Analyze the results to determine what resonates best with your audience.
  • Leverage Social Listening: Monitor social media and other online platforms to understand the conversations happening around your brand and industry. This real-time feedback can provide valuable insights into audience sentiment and emerging trends.
  • Integrate Data Across Platforms: Ensure that data collected across various platforms is integrated into a unified analysis framework. This holistic view can reveal comprehensive audience insights, informing more cohesive and strategic marketing efforts.

The Future of Marketing and Emerging Tech

The trajectory of marketing and the influence of emerging technologies on consumer experiences are subjects ripe with speculation and anticipation. As we navigate through the current digital marketing landscape, it’s evident that technology not only plays a crucial role in shaping marketing strategies but also in redefining the very fabric of consumer engagement.

Speculations on Future Marketing Trends

The future of marketing is invariably linked to the advancement of technology. Here are a few speculations on what we might expect:

  • Augmented Reality (AR) and Virtual Reality (VR) Integration: These technologies will continue to blur the lines between the digital and physical worlds, offering consumers immersive brand experiences that were previously unimaginable.
  • AI-driven Personalization: Artificial Intelligence (AI) will take personalization to new heights, enabling brands to tailor experiences, content, and recommendations with unprecedented precision, enhancing customer satisfaction and loyalty.
  • Voice and Conversational Marketing: With the rise of smart speakers and voice assistants, voice search and conversational marketing will become integral components of a comprehensive marketing strategy, emphasizing natural language interactions.
  • Sustainability and Ethical Marketing: Consumer awareness and concern about sustainability and ethical issues are on the rise. Brands that align their marketing strategies with these values will gain a competitive edge.

Embracing Emerging Technologies: The Apple Vision Pro Case Study

The Apple Vision Pro has emerged as a groundbreaking development in the realm of marketing and customer engagement, signifying a leap forward in how brands connect with their audiences through technology.

With the Apple Vision Pro, users can engage with brands in a fully immersive, three-dimensional space, enhancing the memorability and impact of customer interactions. By integrating digital content with the physical world, the Apple Vision Pro opens up new possibilities for brands to create meaningful and engaging narratives, highlighting their values and offerings in a compelling way.

Potential Applications of VR, AR, and XR in Creating Immersive Brand Experiences

  • Virtual Showrooms and Product Demonstrations: With VR, brands can create detailed virtual showrooms that allow customers to explore products in a highly interactive and engaging way. These virtual spaces can simulate the look, feel, and functionality of products, providing a rich, informative experience that can influence purchasing decisions.
  • Enhanced Training and Tutorials: AR and VR can be used to develop interactive tutorials and training materials that offer a hands-on learning experience. This can be particularly beneficial for complex products, allowing customers to gain a deeper understanding of how to use them effectively.
  • Immersive Brand Storytelling: XR technologies enable brands to craft immersive narratives that engage customers on an emotional level. By placing users within the story, brands can create a more profound connection, fostering loyalty and enhancing brand perception.
  • Personalized Shopping Experiences: AR can personalize the shopping experience by allowing customers to visualize products in their own space or on themselves before making a purchase. This technology can reduce the uncertainty associated with online shopping, leading to higher satisfaction and lower return rates.

The Apple Vision Pro underscores the vast potential of emerging technologies in transforming marketing strategies and customer engagement. By embracing VR, AR, and XR, brands can create unique, immersive experiences that captivate audiences, deepen connections, and drive engagement. As these technologies continue to evolve, they will undoubtedly play a pivotal role in shaping the future of marketing, offering new ways for brands to connect with their audiences in meaningful and memorable ways.

Conclusion: Embracing Innovation for Future-Ready Marketing

A few core themes stand out as we wrap up our exploration of the evolving landscape of digital marketing and the pivotal role of emerging technologies. Robin Dimond’s insights underscore the necessity of embracing innovation, diversifying platforms, and understanding your audience through data to craft marketing strategies that not only resonate today but will continue to do so in the future.

Innovation in marketing is no longer a choice but a necessity. The digital world is in constant flux, with new technologies reshaping how brands connect with their audiences. From the immersive experiences offered by AR, VR, and XR to the personalized engagement enabled by AI and data analytics, the tools at our disposal are more powerful and varied than ever before.

Encouragement for Brands to Experiment

To thrive in this landscape, brands are encouraged to experiment with new technologies and platforms. Experimentation is the key to discovering what resonates with your audience, what enhances your brand message, and what drives engagement and conversion. It’s through trying new approaches that brands can discover the unique mix of strategies that works best for them.

  • Foster a Culture of Curiosity: Encourage your team to seek out and experiment with new technologies. Whether it’s a new social media platform or an emerging tech like AR, each experiment provides valuable learning opportunities.
  • Listen to Your Audience: Use data and direct feedback to guide your experiments. What does your audience respond to? What do they value? Tailoring your innovations to meet their needs can significantly increase the impact of your efforts.
  • Embrace Failure as a Stepping Stone: Not every experiment will be a success, but each one offers insights that can refine your strategy and approach. The key is to learn, adapt, and iterate.

As we look to the future, the landscape of digital marketing will undoubtedly continue to evolve, bringing new challenges and opportunities. By fostering a culture of innovation, experimentation, and adaptability, brands can not only navigate these changes but thrive, staying connected with their audience in meaningful and engaging ways.


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to social media news live. I’m Jeff C. And you’re not.

[00:00:04] Paul Gowder: and I’m Paul. And this is the show that teaches you all things that’s going on in the world of social media.

[00:00:09] Jeff Sieh: have you ever found yourself pondering the future of your brand’s presence on social media?

[00:00:14] Amidst this news of platform TikTok, maybe you’re seeking Insight on how to

[00:00:19] safeguard your marketing strategy against such uncertainties as we’re in right now. So, do you want to know more about emerging tech and what might affect your business? If these concerns resonate with you, you’re in the right place.

[00:00:32] Today, we’re delighted to host Robin Diamond, an expert in leveraging omni channel strategies and emerging technologies to build resilient brands. Robin will share her

[00:00:41] expertise, her strategies for navigating these turbulent digital waters, and how to focus on them. Future proof your brand’s marketing strategy.

[00:00:48] So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Robin, thank you so much for being here today.

[00:00:56] Robin Dimond: Thank you so much for having me. I’m super excited to be talking about this.

[00:00:59] Jeff Sieh: So I want to introduce you guys to Robin. Robin is the CEO and founder of Fifth and. Core, It’s a marketing and innovative company and Robin brings over 18 years of experience that has led to a successful team and client success stories over the years.

[00:01:14] She’s passionate about the human

[00:01:16] experience. She strives to bring sensory experiences to the heart and the heart back to all her team’s work and Thus lives up to the name Fifth, which means five senses, and Core, which is Latin for heart. What a cool name for a company. So, Robin, once again, thank you for being on the show today.

[00:01:32] She’s also the co host of Agorapulse, the summit you guys are doing. Can you talk a little bit about that, Robin, what you’re doing with Mike?

[00:01:38] Robin Dimond: Sure. So, I am the co host with Mike on MarTech. It is done by Agorapulse. and it’s every week we go in there and we talk about what’s new in marketing and technology. And honestly, it’s really just to help. People or brands see what’s coming because it’s, it’s coming at us all so fast. so we do the show just to talk about those latest and greatest updates that are happening and then tell them how they can solution to help their teams.

[00:02:03] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, they’ve got some great guests because secretly I’ve been editing their podcast and it’s, it’s, there’s, you guys got to check it out. It’s going to be amazing. When the podcast launches, I think at the end of this month, you guys need to sign up for it because it’s, they have some great guests, great

[00:02:15] conversation over there. Something else I want to do before we get going too far into the show is I want to give a shout out to our sponsor Ecamm. They’re what makes it happen. You saw me doing some crazy

[00:02:25] wild switcheroo stuff at the beginning. You can find out more about them at Thank you so much for Ecamm for sponsoring the show.

[00:02:32] You can actually use Code Jeff 15 to save 15% on your first purchase, so check that out at Alright, let’s talk about the future of marketing. We are gonna dump right into this. So the thing I wanted to ask, first of all, because we’re gonna talk about omnichannel marketing, and that’s something that you, talk about a lot you’re passionate about and.

[00:02:56] Let’s just pretend some people may not know what omni channel marketing is. Can you tell people what that is

[00:03:00] and why it’s important?

[00:03:02] Robin Dimond: Absolutely. And we’re going to talk about even more why it is important, like a little bit later, but for Omnichannel, it’s seamless, consistent, personalized customer experience across multiple channels. And this is really focused on the customer centric of marketing instead of just It’s all about data driven ideas.

[00:03:21] It really creates a seamless journey to meet

[00:03:23] your people where they’re at.

[00:03:25] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. So, my, my daughter who’s actually getting a marketing degree says, Dad, you’ve got to ask this next question. what’s the difference between omni channel marketing and multi channel marketing? Is there a difference?

[00:03:41] Robin Dimond: There, there actually is a difference. When you’re doing omni

[00:03:44] channel, you’re going across everything with that, with the whole same idea. So before we used to like hyper focus on one thing and none, it was almost like none of the parts of the body talked to each other. So I try to think of omni channel as your one body.

[00:03:59] If I only go in and work out my abs every

[00:04:00] single day, I’m not

[00:04:01] really going to get results. I need to be doing. All the things, but having the same structure

[00:04:05] in plan. So omnichannel is taking your

[00:04:08] messaging and kind of manipulating it to each platform, but making sure you’re consistent

[00:04:12] across each platform.

[00:04:14] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. And, Paul, you can go ahead and take this next

[00:04:18] question because, I know, You know, you, you look at other companies and you, and you, cause Paul’s really, he has a

[00:04:24] huge Facebook group. He does, you know, live shows across the nation. Paul, what, what, what are your questions

[00:04:31] about this

[00:04:32] Paul Gowder: Yeah, you know, we’ve all heard that the possibility of what’s happening with TikTok. so how, how do we prepare our marketing strategy, not just for, for that, but, you know, with Google’s algorithm changes in, Facebook changing their organic reach. How do we prepare for that in all of these possible bans and changes?

[00:04:53] Robin Dimond: Paul, honestly, like that’s the best question. And you know, I used to tell everyone, create a roadmap. Take that roadmap. so much for joining me today, and I will see you in the next video. Bye. Bye. and then we’re seeing this ban with TikTok come,

[00:05:26] we’ve seen X or Twitter,

[00:05:28] however they want to be called. we saw all the changes that they’ve

[00:05:31] gone through.

[00:05:31] And so if you have a roadmap, you need to go and focus only 90 days. Don’t be focusing way out there. You need to come up with a channel

[00:05:39] strategy so that you’re across multiple channels because our brands who were able to be across multiple channels, like they had an X, they had a YouTube, they had a Pinterest.

[00:05:50] We had a heyday making memes all day about Meta being down.

[00:05:54] Jeff Sieh: Right,

[00:05:55] Robin Dimond: It really was just us making memes and making fun of the other channels for being down. With this TikTok ban, all these companies who were like ride or dying

[00:06:02] on TikTok and didn’t want to go onto their other platforms, we saw a

[00:06:06] really big, we’re seeing really big issues and a panic attack with that. so it’s really spreading across all of

[00:06:12] those. But to say that we’re going to be

[00:06:14] prepared, I would say the first couple years of my life in marketing was amazing. The last three have

[00:06:20] been terrible. Google strangers, meta going down this TikTok band, you’re like, I’m sorry, I don’t know what the heck we’re doing out there.

[00:06:29] So I think it’s like, we need to be very truthful and honest and really create a partnership in a community. I love that you have a Facebook group, but you should have a group on every single channel like that. There should be LinkedIn connections, brands to diversify.

[00:06:43] Jeff Sieh: So I want to talk about that because, you know, I’ve been doing this social media marketing and marketing stuff. We were talking with Mike, you know, Mike was on last week and we’ve been friends in this like back in the, here we go, Chris Stone, Google Plus days. And, One of the things is, you know, a lot of times people say niche down, niche, niche, niche, niche down, only be on one platform so you can concentrate on that.

[00:07:05] And, you know, that’s great until you’ve built your platform on a company like TikTok that may go away. And I, I under, listen, I understand why people say that. People are upset and like, why are they going to ban this thing? We’ve built our whole business on that.

[00:07:21] So what lessons can we

[00:07:23] learn? And like, especially from like, you know, fifth and cores ability

[00:07:26] to pivot, you know, quickly on this kind of stuff.

[00:07:29] What should, what should we do? I mean. It just seems

[00:07:32] like we can’t do anything right. And every time we start to build something up, we get slapped down. So what do you tell people who like, listen, I can barely do one platform. How am I supposed to diversify and do it everywhere?

[00:07:44] Robin Dimond: I think that’s a great question. And this is a question I’ve been getting asked a lot lately. Okay. Hey, I barely can keep up with my Twitter and it is really about coming up with a strategy, come up with a posting cadence for you. And what I mean is that as if your brand can only do it twice a week. Do it twice a week.

[00:08:03] Do all the channels. Maybe they’re going to all have the same content, but you can’t niche down. Get to know who your customer is, not who your customer is on each platform. Because the other thing that we’re doing wrong is everyone’s like boomers are on Facebook. Boomers aren’t my clients. Or boomers are on this and Gen Z’s over here.

[00:08:21] That’s not true. The worlds have merged so quickly now. My dad, I joked, I

[00:08:27] actually said this yesterday on the social summit podcast.

[00:08:30] I was like, my dad showed me something before. That’s why I was late to my own podcast was because my dad was showing me

[00:08:36] something on Instagram and he’s 71 years old and he’s out there and he’s like,

[00:08:39] yeah, this is how you do it.

[00:08:40] And I’m like, I’m

[00:08:41] a Gen X. How do I not know? He’s like, because you’re on all the platforms. So what I would tell a brand is find who your people are, what do they like to hear? And then meet them across every platform. It’s okay if it’s the same content, just serve it up differently.

[00:08:56] Jeff Sieh: So one of the things, you know, and, and tell me if I’m wrong, but technology now has made it easier than ever to go

[00:09:04] omnichannel because before it was hard. But like right now we are going live. On all these different places, I’m able to pull, with the magic of Ecamm, pull in comments from, YouTube, like, Chris Stone is over there, because I said Google it’s his drinking game, so he said, he said clink, he had to take a drink.

[00:09:22] And, you know, Dustin Stout’s over there, we got people over on Facebook telling me, like, hey, Facebook’s kind of weird since it went down, tons of spam ads and stuff like that. But the technology is here where I’m, I’m able to do this omni channel everywhere, and, And, when I do these clips that I repurpose, I use Agorapulse, which allows me to have buckets that I continue to rotate these clips out.

[00:09:42] So, do you think that advice saying, you know, niche down a specific platform is outdated because of technology, or is it just the world, you know, that we’re kind of living in and that people aren’t educated with the tools that you can use to go everywhere at once?

[00:09:58] Robin Dimond: I think people don’t know about the tools, because it’s exhausting to keep up with all of this. and I want to give, you know, those people credit, but I also think people are in an old school mindset. They heard something five years ago, and that’s not a thing anymore. It, we don’t control the platforms.

[00:10:14] The platforms control how we do content. And so if you’re not across all of them, if you don’t have a robust, Blog that people can go to a YouTube channel, Instagram, a Facebook. I didn’t even have LinkedIn five years ago. Not at all. My old CEO used to make fun of me about it. And now I have almost 27, 000 connections.

[00:10:34] I went ham on it because I realized that if meta goes down. I’m in trouble personally, business wise, all the things it’s going to personally affect us. And so I think don’t niche, like you really can’t niche down anymore. And also audiences are floating between things.

[00:10:50] Again, let’s go back to the Gen Z’s are going over to see their grandparents and, they’re talking and you’re seeing platforms really merge across everything. AI should have taught us this. Leverage AI. I’m not saying it’s going to replace you, but leverage it. Leverage Agorapulse. I can put my content in there. Shout out to Agorapulse. I can put my content in there and it gets served across platforms. There’s tools now that can help you. And if you don’t know those tools, connect with us, watch this show, connect with us on LinkedIn, and we’ll tell you those tools.

[00:11:18] Jeff Sieh: And one of them is, Dustin’s in here too. Paul, before you ask this question, because I know I have one that just came up to my mind and I know it’s going to be important to you. So one of

[00:11:25] the things that people struggle with, and we, we, agree that it’s important to build community on, on whatever, you know, as with our audience, right?

[00:11:34] We need to have

[00:11:34] community. That’s something important. But what do we build it on? Because you can’t have a community everywhere, right? You can’t really have omni channel community. Do you recommend using a third party tool like, you know, Oh, Circle or something like that, that you send people to for that community?

[00:11:51] Because I know that’s a big struggle. A lot of questions. I know Lou Mangiello is in the audience. I know Paul has a huge Facebook community and this meta stuff freaks him out. Like, what, where do we put our community that we, that we maybe own it a little bit better? Do you have any thoughts or, or, you know, advice on that?

[00:12:07] Robin Dimond: Absolutely. There’s so many platforms now. I’m in a lot of different women’s groups. I’m in Slack channels now too. So all of their social channels will connect them to one that I can control. And that’s something that’s really important. And Paul, like your, your energy about this is the same thing I have.

[00:12:24] Like I’m, I’m freaking out. Cause like, okay, now 19, 000 people on Facebook are not going to

[00:12:29] actually see it. It means nothing anymore. so being able to

[00:12:33] take them off the social platforms

[00:12:35] and move them into a community

[00:12:36] platform that can be attached to your website is going to help you serve it. And

[00:12:40] it also builds, builds like a VIP feeling.

[00:12:43] And we’re seeing a lot of brands do this. I’m not saying use Reddit because Reddit

[00:12:47] can go down as well, but we’re seeing Slack channels. We’re seeing, you know, boards go up that people

[00:12:52] can be part of and that’s a lot better. Get them, get all your social channels to go to one

[00:12:57] that you own that. So that if, if meta does go down, you can say, Hey, you, can tune into us on YouTube over here.

[00:13:02] Jeff Sieh: Great, great points.

[00:13:04] Paul Gowder: And I like what you’re talking about, how we need to know our audience, not just know, no platforms, but no audiences. So what are those key metrics that you use to kind of help identify where your, who your audience is and, and how you, appeal to them?

[00:13:20] Robin Dimond: So we ask them, because I’m gonna tell you meta does not give you the truth. They’re like, your audience is 30 to 40. And I’m like, no, they’re not. so we do polls on social. We ask them, where are you coming from? What location are you? there’s the bots out there and every single marketer right now is like.

[00:13:40] The bots are killing me. the bots out there are going to throw your, your algorithms off. They’re going to throw everything off. And so we ask people, where are you from? How’d you hear from us? We, we actually go back to this fricking

[00:13:52] device and I will actually write after people and say like, Hey, thanks so much for the feedback.

[00:13:57] Where’d you hear from

[00:13:58] us? And people are like, Oh

[00:14:00] my gosh, what, what do you mean? How did you know about it? And I’m like, okay,

[00:14:02] great. And I’ll start following them or I’ll like

[00:14:04] their community. It’s really, when I say it’s about going authentic, that’s the one thing that socials taught us recently is we need to be more authentic. I know I probably should be saying something else. Like I should be like, look at this or look at your insights. Your insights are skewed, skewed very, very heavily.

[00:14:21] Jeff Sieh: So, I’m gonna go back and, and, you know, you, authenticity is something everybody talks about. So how do you do that at scale? Or is it something you can’t scale and that’s okay?

[00:14:32] Robin Dimond: You, you can, there’s certain times that you can go on live and you let people know We let people know, Hey, we’ll be answering

[00:14:38] this from 10 to 11. Hey, we’ll do a poll and we’ll follow up tomorrow. Like

[00:14:43] we, you have to share it. And it’s, I’m going to go to dating. I can’t, if I don’t tell you the expectations of dating me, then how can you expect that?

[00:14:51] Same thing with your clients, same thing with your customers, same thing with your groups. If you’re really wanting a community, let them know. Hey, every day from 10 to 11, these are what I, I answer your questions. I’ll get through as many as I can. If I don’t see you tag me again. It’s really being more transparent with people.

[00:15:06] Jeff Sieh: Well, I think one of the things we’ve just learned in this first section is like, be authentic, but also be everywhere. And one of the things is the, you know, the technology we talked about and AI. I know Dustin Stout, who you just interviewed not very long ago, he goes, he had his new BFF because he was on your show, so, with

[00:15:25] Robin Dimond: We’re getting matching bracelets dusted. I know I’m sending material.

[00:15:29] Jeff Sieh: So, and Gary says, you know, omni channel chat comments are awesome in Ecamm. So, like, I know that Gary usually watches over on YouTube, and then I know, like, there’s a lot of people who watch over on LinkedIn, and it’s, it’s turning into a thing, like you mentioned before, is where people prefer it.

[00:15:43] My dad, like you said, he, he, he’s, like, I’ve given him all these other channels to watch. He loves YouTube. That’s his thing. He watches, like, you know, the cop shows

[00:15:53] and all the, the stuff. He, and it’s so funny that It’s a, it’s a place that they wouldn’t. And my mom’s on

[00:15:58] Instagram and like, it’s, people watch where they

[00:16:01] want to consume content. So in that vein, I want to jump, and I know you’re really passionate about this. And I’m really excited to talk to you about it is the impact of emerging tech. because one of the things you do at Fifth and Core is you, you know, I’m really interested in how you use VR and AR and XR and all that stuff.

[00:16:19] You do a lot of medical stuff with that, training people about that. So with your interest in emerging tech. What are

[00:16:26] your thoughts on the Apple Vision Pro? Because,

[00:16:29] it’s stupid expensive. it’s, it’s the first gen. it’s very, very cool. But how can marketers leverage some of this technologies for like immersive customer experiences?

[00:16:41] Cause I want to know kind of your thoughts on that.

[00:16:43] Robin Dimond: Great. so it is stupid expensive. Let’s let me, let me just say, I should pre get an insurance policy out on mine. it’s super expensive. it does have

[00:16:54] some weird hitches. Let’s just think about the marketing of

[00:16:57] Apple though. Let’s give them some credit. They said Apple

[00:16:59] vision. Meaning there is going to be another one

[00:17:04] that’s more junior coming out.

[00:17:05] That will be more affordable for everybody. So don’t rush out and buy this if you don’t need to. they also then on top of it, their marketing people are geniuses or their PR team is they announced the Apple, ring that’s coming out. So now you have the Apple Vision Pro, which is going to be able to take you into XR, it’s augmented reality, virtual reality, and mixed reality, or extent was what they call it as extended reality.

[00:17:30] It’s going to be able to take you into all of those things. When I put mine on, it’s easier for me to use than the Oculus. And I’m going to share why. I had a stroke several years ago, and so any VR that I’m completely shut off makes me nauseous within like 30 seconds. I cannot do it. I’ve gone to shows. I was at CES in Orlando, and I put on a headset.

[00:17:50] The Apple Vision allows you to see through, and it is very adaptable. Their hand tracking, their eye tracking, is also super quick. Yes, it’s still clunky and

[00:18:01] everything is. The first phone that

[00:18:03] came out was not that great, but this is where people are going to. Now, the other thing is men say it’s not that heavy on my face.

[00:18:11] It’s like. Like you pick up your, it’s like, and you get those nice dents underneath your face. It’s not practical. They will come out with the next version.

[00:18:20] We’re seeing this, but

[00:18:22] it took what other

[00:18:23] brands like Google, Glass and Magic Leap, and it merged them together. And then they started adding on layers.

[00:18:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, Go ahead, Paul. I’m sorry. I’m so excited. So

[00:18:37] Paul Gowder: so,

[00:18:38] with all the things coming out, do you recommend, and if so, how can we as businesses leverage it to really create interactive, engaging customer experiences?

[00:18:48] Robin Dimond: I do recommend it as a business. if you can make the investment, make it, if you can’t, Hold, there’s going to be another one coming. Like we have to know that’s what they do every year. if you can use it, there is, and you have the Apple or the Apple phone 15. If, if you have this, go into where you’re shooting video, hold your phone horizontally, and you will actually see a little mask pop up.

[00:19:12] we started shooting content for all of our clients with that little mask. And so now that content is created for the Apple vision pro. And that is something that businesses need to jump on, start playing with, because now you’re shooting content that

[00:19:26] can be 180 degrees in

[00:19:28] front of you. It is set in front of that. That’s how social is

[00:19:31] going to be. And so brands who were paying all this money for these photo shoots, this just solutioned all of it. The LIDAR Solution Day and it’s better than any cameras. It’s better than a photographer and you can actually go out there and I understand because I do have photography as an asset.

[00:19:46] My brother’s a great photographer. I’m not pooping on photographers or videographers, but they solutioned all of this really quickly. And so yeah, Paul, if you can make the investment, make the investment. If you can’t and you have an app, you have an Apple phone that’s a 15, start shooting content that way.

[00:20:03] Start capturing it now so that it will be ready for the people who

[00:20:06] can afford those things.

[00:20:08] Jeff Sieh: I want to talk about, because I,

[00:20:10] it appears right here. Yes, I brought it right here. I had to show it. So I’ve got this little protective thing on it because I’m scared to death to break this thing. So what you just said about the spatial, computing, that’s the one thing I think is going to change how we take photos.

[00:20:25] Because you mentioned with the Apple 15. And so I can talk about it all, you know, until my face turns blue, but until you experience it, you don’t, you can’t understand it. I wish that I was able to go back and take my kids photos in spatial, because it is, if you ever watch Harry Potter, it’s like a pensive, like it feels like you’re going into a memory.

[00:20:46] It is, it is, it’s like that. And I can shoot it, like I can put this on my head and like shoot video, but that’s ridiculous. But they have it, like you said, for the Apple 15, that you can shoot it natively on that. I think that’s how it’s going to change the way we take photos because, like for me, like I know I’m going to die, hopefully not soon, but eventually, but I would love to have me talking to my kids in this, this spatial video and spatial photos.

[00:21:11] It reminds me, okay, spoiler alert, remember in Avengers Endgame when Tony, they’re watching Tony say goodbye to his kids and he’s got it. It’s like that! It’s like I could do that kind of stuff for my kids. So I think that one thing everybody’s like, what’s the killer app? What’s the killer app?

[00:21:28] I think it’s that it’s not there yet for everybody.

[00:21:31] Like it is

[00:21:32] ridiculously expensive. it is ridiculously heavy on your face. but the tech on that stuff is amazing. And I think it’s going to change. we shoot photos as a home, you know, video person, and that kind of thing. So that’s just me. want to bring up this comment by Corey. He goes, VR Ed Tech is going to change the world based biased as his company is doing it, but believe me, you know, he’s saying it’s going to happen.

[00:21:54] So, that’s where I want to talk about a little bit right now, Robin is, you know, educating clients. It’s like, how do you approach You’re educating your clients, particularly like in this medical space where you’re teaching people like this is an asset that you can use to train your people with or to, you know, explain things or even procedures.

[00:22:13] So how do you, you know, educate clients who are like, okay, I know it’s, it just came out. What do I do? How do you, do you have to go and show it to them? What do you do to kind of explain this technology to your clients?

[00:22:25] Robin Dimond: well, absolutely. I want to touch back about what you said about your family because

[00:22:29] what we’re seeing is the greatest

[00:22:31] exodus of boomers leaving businesses right now. And so

[00:22:35] the same emotional connection that you just had about your children and like leaving your legacy with them and being able to shoot it is what business owners are doing.

[00:22:44] And before these private equity companies come in or before they leave it, they’re going to be shooting content that someone can come in on a day of training and know why Robin came up with the name Fifth and Core. Why

[00:22:54] was it important to me? It is going to be an educational factor. It’s going to be a

[00:22:59] legacy factor of businesses.

[00:23:01] Imagine going to Hershey and seeing

[00:23:03] everything that Hershey did, like in a headset and like really being brought in instead of watching

[00:23:08] an old school video like that. So you’re, it’s going to be the legacies of companies, companies that have been

[00:23:14] around for 98 years who want to pass it to their

[00:23:16] next, to the grandchildren.

[00:23:18] Imagine being able to see your great grandfather

[00:23:20] talk to you about something. and I think that it’s just as much.

[00:23:24] Personal as it is business. And I love that you had said that. And I was like, I need to like go back

[00:23:28] Jeff Sieh: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:23:30] Robin Dimond: because as

[00:23:30] for a business owner, and you’re like, Hey, what is my legacy?

[00:23:33] I put all this time, this effort. I barely, I got to sacrifice time

[00:23:36] with my family. I can now have to go

[00:23:39] over to a business. I want that legacy to be lived throughout. And so I think that’s where we’re going to start seeing businesses adapt

[00:23:44] this business owners, companies that have been passed down. Now, what you said about the VR

[00:23:49] and medical, next week, we’re going to be in

[00:23:52] Dallas, Texas, at the Beauty Boss Conference. And we actually show where nerves,

[00:23:58] veins, muscles, skin, how to do injections. we did one in, Boston, in Cambridge, actually, we did a cadaver

[00:24:06] course. And being able to layer

[00:24:08] on the face, we actually used my face as an example. So you get to put on augmented reality and actually see the work that I’ve done.

[00:24:16] I said, Before we get started, I want to give you a little bit of background on what we’re talking about it. So we’re seeing the medical

[00:24:35] field advance drastically. Let’s also talk about

[00:24:41] the automotive world.

[00:24:45] We’re seeing a lot

[00:24:46] of blue collar people. Now you’re talking about you’re driving this in every day.

[00:24:49] If someone doesn’t do this correctly, if they don’t put a tire on back on, or their training’s not done, your life is

[00:24:55] in their hands. So being able to put a headset on somebody and

[00:24:58] train them, you have now a

[00:24:59] retired generation who can sit at home, remote in, they’re in the comfort of an air conditioning, but they can also

[00:25:05] teach the younger generation. And that’s where we’re seeing this educational part take off rapidly.

[00:25:10] Paul Gowder: So, I’m taking notes while

[00:25:12] you’re

[00:25:12] Robin Dimond: I was like, whoa, okay, what’s

[00:25:14] happening?

[00:25:15] Paul Gowder: yeah, and we have one of our biggest events of the year coming up in April, so I’m writing down, oh, I gotta do this here, I gotta, you know, make sure I shoot video for VR. But at the same time, then I’m thinking, this is our biggest event, this is where we get video and film.

[00:25:29] And photos and all the things for the rest of the year. And I am really, really easily tempted by the shiny new thing. And I will run off and chase it and neglect everything else. So we’re with omni channel marketing, where, how do I draw the balance and how do I find that, that right balance of, and mixing in the new emerging tech within trying to be everywhere.

[00:25:51] Robin Dimond: It’s like finding balance in life though. It’s, you know, we go to these events and we’re like, okay, let’s get a certain amount of content this way.

[00:25:58] And we just follow a script. And

[00:26:00] then we, classic is always going to be there. There’s always going to

[00:26:02] be that retro, that spin, that classic. So get the regular

[00:26:06] photos, and then look at it from

[00:26:08] different ones. Shoot this way, shoot this way, ta da, and make sure you have a checklist. And that’s what we tell

[00:26:14] my team as we go through. It’s like, okay, we shot all this content. That’s great. And we have two people always going, one’s always shooting this way. One’s always shooting

[00:26:21] content this way. and then you have

[00:26:23] the photographer who’s capturing whatever, but don’t be exhausted.

[00:26:27] Use what works,

[00:26:28] put it out there and then give feedback. If it’s the best content you’ve ever shot, then you know you’re

[00:26:33] doing something right. Or maybe your audience is just not ready for it, but Paul, don’t be

[00:26:37] exhausted.

[00:26:38] Jeff Sieh: And

[00:26:38] Paul, I’m just thinking, like, it would be so cool, cause, he does powwows across the

[00:26:42] country for, for, what’s the big event that’s coming up?

[00:26:46] Paul Gowder: Gathering nations.

[00:26:47] Jeff Sieh: yeah, and so, being able to see that in, like, the spatial video, that would be

[00:26:52] sweet, Paul, that would be, like, really, really cool. So, anyway, I mean, and the thing is, it’s like, yeah, maybe a lot of people don’t have to be able

[00:27:00] to watch it back, but now, even, the MetaQuest

[00:27:03] is allowing you to watch spatial videos inside of that, and so, it’s starting to open up, but I just think

[00:27:08] it’d be a cool thing. Anyway, Corey has

[00:27:10] a great, point here, and I wanna know your,

[00:27:14] So, your thoughts on this, Robin. He goes, my company’s biggest hurdle is convincing some of the older generations that VR has advanced since the 80s and demonstrate the capability to achieve better learning outcomes than traditional schools.

[00:27:27] So, how do you do that? Because, I mean, even the medical profession, they have some emerging tech and they’re maybe a little bit more open to that, but still, I’m sure that’s a struggle for you as educating young people. clients about this new technology.

[00:27:40] Robin Dimond: Corey, I feel like a broken record. They can watch every podcast. They can be like, it’s so cool. We’re not going to do it. I’m like, what the, come on. so yeah, I agree. And it’s, I think the bridge and I, I’m going to use my parents as an example. If you can’t tell, I absolutely adore my parents. Augmented reality is that

[00:27:58] bridge.

[00:27:59] Virtual reality is very hard for people for me, especially, but augmented reality, being able to

[00:28:04] see through something, it is way more

[00:28:07] adaptable and. My parents are not tech people. They’re real life people. Now, my mom was a teacher. And so when I put

[00:28:14] an augmented reality headset and

[00:28:15] she can build blocks, she’s like, oh, okay, but we’re also doing augmented reality without a headset.

[00:28:20] And I want to

[00:28:20] talk about that for the older generation. There are. 2D barcodes. There are. QR

[00:28:26] codes that you can scan over

[00:28:28] and something can pop up on your phone. One, you’re getting user generated content, but you’re also being able to see something. So we did this for a

[00:28:35] seafood restaurant. We took a picture of the oysters.

[00:28:38] We actually made the ice cube, the QR code. Scanned over it. And it actually told where each oyster came from. So you’re like, this is a blue point. This goes with this wine. Well, people were playing with it so much. And it was such a, like the restaurant got user generated content. The people were enticed.

[00:28:55] We didn’t have to worry about a server, not telling the right thing. we didn’t have to worry about allergies. So we’re doing this for a lot of different people and when they can see it and it’s not a headset, it’s a lot

[00:29:04] easier. So the bridge is augmented reality and augmented reality can be done on On a TV, it can be done

[00:29:10] in a headset and it can be done on your phone with a

[00:29:12] QR code.

[00:29:13] And I think that’s where brands need to start looking at. But yeah, it’s not just the

[00:29:18] older generation either. I have to say boomers are more accepting

[00:29:23] of it. It’s the

[00:29:24] Gen X and I’m a Gen X that are. We are just pushing back so hard and

[00:29:29] I don’t understand why and it is, it’s, the boomers are great. They have plenty of time to learn.

[00:29:33] They’re at home. They’re

[00:29:34] retired. They’re looking through stuff. It is our

[00:29:36] generation. And so it’s an educational thing and it’s like social 15 years ago and not, not to call you out Jeff, but you, we were all

[00:29:45] Paul Gowder: Have

[00:29:47] Robin Dimond: And I remember people being like, this is a phase. Facebook is a phase. Cool. It didn’t go anywhere. So for a brand to pay attention right now,

[00:29:56] pay attention to this. It’s not going anywhere. It’s going to be how we talk to each other. You must jump on it immediately.

[00:30:03] Jeff Sieh: So I want to talk about, a little bit. First of all, I want, I want to give a shout out to, some of my, people watching. And thank you, Jim. He says, I’m watching the show on YouTube because it helps his minutes go towards monetization. That’s awesome. And Corey has something really good. He was like, just imagine a single mom who can’t go to school during the day because she has to work and now she can go to school at night.

[00:30:25] And, you know, I want another big shout out, so everybody wish, Chris Stone, it’s his birthday today, so happy birthday, Chris.

[00:30:34] Paul Gowder: a great I’m, I don’t know, you know, how, yeah, so, Jim called it out, let’s wish Chris Stone an early happy birthday, so

[00:30:40] Jeff Sieh: awesome, awesome, you know, Chris Stone. One of the things that I wanted, before we move on, Oh, this is a great point by Kira.

[00:30:49] She goes, remember when people said, don’t film it in 4k because nobody has a TV to showcase it. It’s crazy to think about that now, but every piece of tech we have used daily now was once thought of as inaccessible. So that is very, very cool. one of the things I, before we go on too much more, and we, and I talked about before the show, there’s a difference between VR.

[00:31:12] AR and then like mixed reality. And Apple is the first one. that’s, and they have coined a new term called spatial computing, which is so Apple,

[00:31:22] but, the, let’s talk about the differences between that, because this is the first headset that has that clear enough pass through. Now MetaQuest has pass through and pass through means you can see, like I put it on and I can still see, it’s got cameras that show me what I’m, you know, and, and I don’t have to have, like, I’m not, I don’t feel blind with it on and it has a great camera.

[00:31:43] So, Robin, talk a little bit about VR, you know, and, and all the different R’s and mixed reality and all that stuff.

[00:31:51] Robin Dimond: Okay. so let’s try to break it. And I, I love this question because it’s, and when I started saying AI people, or I’ll say augmented reality, people are like, I love AI. I’m like, Nope, Nope. Nope, that’s artificial intelligence. So let’s, let’s take a couple steps back. Virtual reality is like virtual training.

[00:32:08] So it’s like a simulation. You cannot see anything else out there. You are completely encompassed. If you’ve gone, you’ve talked about Disney, Jeff, this is like, you know, Epcot, virtual reality. We are completely encompassed in that. We cannot see past it.

[00:32:22] Jeff Sieh: Beat Saber.

[00:32:23] Robin Dimond: Augmented is digital elements in the real world. So it is that you might have a headset or you might have a phone and it brings that digital element to life.

[00:32:33] So you can still see everything. I cannot run around my house with an oculus headset and not run into a wall.

[00:32:40] Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

[00:32:41] Robin Dimond: Sucks. tried it, done it, have some bruises. but with Augmented reality like the Magic Leap headset or the Apple Vision Pro when it’s in more augmented reality. You can see the real world, you can see furniture, you can, you can walk around, you can do all of those things.

[00:32:56] That is why we say augmented reality is a lot better. We’re also seeing the older demographic, they don’t get that balance impairment. If you want to be completely in virtual reality, and I would say some people who are younger can do that, That is it. Now, mixed reality, or what they like to call, it’s MR or XR, whatever you want to call it, is more computer technology that’s graphics blended into the physical and digital world.

[00:33:21] So it goes back and forth between

[00:33:23] those. That makes sense for it. So, a lot of people, when you’re really thinking about it, XR is great for like, Training, Instructional Design, Project Management. That’s what those are going to be for. Where augmented reality is walking me through a futuristic home and saying, Hey, this is where your artwork could be or bring something to life.

[00:33:41] Where virtual reality, I’m not really walking around with it. And we’ve all watched, we’ve all watched the YouTubes of people running into two things. Reality is where you’re going to be completely encompassed, immersed in it. Broke

[00:33:53] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that was great. So one of the, one of the cool things about the Apple Vision Pro is right here on the top. There’s this digital crown, right? And it’s like the digital crown on your watch. And the cool thing is you can have that pass through where you can see everything around you, which would be the mixed reality.

[00:34:06] But you can dial it in, so you can dial your reality down. And I don’t know, Apple has done it. Where it has this fog where you can like fade out the real world and you’re sitting and, you can sit on the moon and watch a movie in 4k in each eye. it is amazing and that is the first time I think, now like the meta quest you can tap on the side and you can enter to pass through and you can see around you in a kind of a

[00:34:29] black and white, not very, it’s really grainy, not really great.

[00:34:32] But with the Apple, you can like leave it on. I can look at my computer and throw up a big monster screen and actually do my video editing with a huge 4k. Monitor. So that kind of stuff where you can dial into reality is, I think, the thing that makes Apple kind of set itself apart because of the, the quality.

[00:34:50] So anyway, thank you for clarifying that because that was something that I, I, I, I know a little bit about, but I’m glad I got your take on it. So, I want to dive into this next section. but first I’m going to do a big shout out once again to our folks at Ecamm who make this possible. they are, you can find out more about them at Ecamm.

[00:35:10] com forward slash Jeff. They’re the ones who sponsored the show. Use code JEFF15 to save up to 50%, 15%, 15 percent on your first purchase. So, we’ve got, this is a great question before we move on to, from Richard. He goes, if you shoot in spatial video, can you still use it now for traditional videos on social and they just won’t get the full experience until they get headsets or watch it in a different way?

[00:35:32] Robin Dimond: Yes.

[00:35:33] Jeff Sieh: I wasn’t sure about that, so good to know. All right, so we’re going to talk about some strategies and opportunities that, that are with omnichannel marketing, and I really wanted to focus on what you guys have done at 5th Core, you know, your expertise. So what criteria should businesses consider most critical when selecting new channels to add to their omnichannel marketing strategy?

[00:35:54] Somebody just asked in the comments, what about threads? Should I be on that? So what do you tell, somebody who’s trying to, you know, figure out if this new channel is, should I be on Mastodon? I mean, all this stuff, because they’re cropping up all over. Which one should you use for this multi channel, omni channel strategy?

[00:36:10] Well,

[00:36:14] Robin Dimond: And I’m going to name those that you have to be on and then there’s the like to be on. So I want to say that. so you have to be on, and they’re the evils of the world, but we’re just going to mention them. Facebook. Instagram, Pinterest, Twitter or X, LinkedIn, and YouTube.

[00:36:34] And I’m going to give you reasons on why you have to be on that. Meta still runs everything, even though we’re making fun of them for getting shut down, they still run everything. And so you need to be on there for advertisement at this current time. For Pinterest, for just the SEO purposes and the discoverability, Pinterest right now, every brand we put on Pinterest, It is still the most affordable one.

[00:37:00] It is still the biggest one. Don’t think old school like I’m putting recipes in a baby book. No, no one cares about that. We go and find it, but it helps you rank higher on Google. When Twitter and Tesla merged, we’re going to talk about crazy Elon for a hot second. What was Tesla? Everyone’s going to go, it’s a car.

[00:37:17] No, it’s not. It was a data collection. I would put in where I go. I would show the different, how fast I was going. I would show my drive every day. Tesla was all about data collection, still is. So when he merged that, think about Twitter and data collection and what you’re able to do with that. And that is

[00:37:34] something that brands need to pay attention.

[00:37:36] I can geo target better than I’ve

[00:37:38] ever been able to do because of what X is doing. YouTube

[00:37:44] is bought by

[00:37:44] Google. So if you want to rank on Google,

[00:37:46] freaking go to YouTube. YouTube is also

[00:37:48] like hating on TikTok and Instagram right now, and they’re trying

[00:37:52] to do this. So YouTube Shorts are outperforming any other channel right now.

[00:37:57] And now my Google ranking, my SEO, is really launching. Also, with all these platforms, if you’re still thinking about SEO, you need to be thinking about GEO. And that is really going to be more AI driven content, so

[00:38:09] you want to have more visuals across those platforms, and you want to be

[00:38:12] data riched with those. So those are the platforms. If you can do all the other ones, first of all,

[00:38:17] threads was the biggest scam we all got

[00:38:19] brought into, and now we can’t get rid of it. If you delete your threads, you delete your Instagram, you’re like,

[00:38:24] oh oh sorry, are we allowed to curse on here? Sorry. you, you, you know, that was, it was, it was like a whole thing.

[00:38:32] And we’re like, what just happened here? I would say, if you can go onto Reddit, if you have time and you know, your audience, Reddit people are so smart. I don’t know where the heck they come from, but if you’re not ready to stay on that, don’t go on those. Look at those six pillar. And then expand from there if you can.

[00:38:49] Jeff Sieh: gotcha. So you said Geo. Can you explain what that was? Because that was, went really fast.

[00:38:54] Robin Dimond: So it’s generative. so you have SEO, which is, you know, where you’re going into generative. So what we’re looking at is they’re now, because of Google’s new algorithm, because of how they’re looking at content, they’re looking for data rich content, and they’re looking for it to be optimized that way.

[00:39:11] So the more data that you have, the more

[00:39:13] vision, visionary visuals that you have, is actually what they’re saying in GEO. It’s not

[00:39:18] replacing SEO yet. But it will. So writing a blog just to write a blog doesn’t

[00:39:24] matter anymore. You must have data. You must have visuals to back up that data. And that’s where that generative search engine

[00:39:30] is going to start going.

[00:39:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I read something about they’re thinking in about a year or

[00:39:35] whatever that, like, the old school SEO tactics. Don’t tell Lauren I’m

[00:39:39] saying this, Paul. it’s gonna go, it’s like

[00:39:42] gonna be 40 percent lower than it is now. So, just as they start switching this stuff out. So, once again, more things to think

[00:39:48] about.

[00:39:49] But, Paul, you had a question?

[00:39:51] Paul Gowder: Yeah. So for people out there that maybe aren’t on all of the six, when we’re looking at a new channel, we’re heading, you know, wanting to dive into Pinterest, for example, what, what, how do we do that? You know, how do we start on that platform to make sure that we do engage the right people, the right customer?

[00:40:08] You know, how do we kind of set ourselves up and establish ourselves on a new platform?

[00:40:12] Robin Dimond: That’s a great question, Paul. I’m going to make it super easy. You’ve been at, you have. All of these followers on that Pinterest or on that Facebook group, you want to go back and take your old content that performed well and move it over to the new platform. The one thing that’s great about Pinterest is that your, your feed is not going to blow up just because it, so you can go in and put a hundred new pins on today because you have extra time.

[00:40:35] And then you can optimize them later on. So that is the one thing it’s

[00:40:39] not going to blow up someone’s feet. If I wouldn’t

[00:40:40] put up a hundred Instagram posts, people would

[00:40:42] unfollow me immediately. so when you’re looking at a new platform, look at what

[00:40:47] it has to benefit and come up with a schedule,

[00:40:49] use your old content that performed really well. start

[00:40:53] testing on this platform and maybe rewrap it in a totally different

[00:40:56] way. But to go back to the generative engine optimization, leverage AI. Say, take this Facebook post in ChatGPT and make it a Pinterest post.

[00:41:07] Jeff Sieh: So, I did

[00:41:09] Robin Dimond: your, I don’t, I do it

[00:41:11] Jeff Sieh: I did. And, so you, so you keep mentioning Pinterest, which I love, because that’s how I got started. It was mainly Pinterest tips. Asked Mike about it, cause he was,

[00:41:18] he and I were doing the mainly

[00:41:19] Pinterest tip show back in the

[00:41:21] day on. Google Plus, Google

[00:41:23] Plus, Google Plus. See, now it’s your birthday, Chris Stone, there you go.

[00:41:28] but yeah,

[00:41:28] so, using, and once again, it’s a tool,

[00:41:32] it’s not gonna, it’s not, you have to craft, there’s still some crafting going on, even

[00:41:35] Dustin Stout will say that with his great tool Magi. so you, you have to craft it for those different things. How do you do that, like, with video? So, like, there’s this, there’s going to be a challenge of, you know, this content adaptation across these different channels.

[00:41:52] Like, how do you, as, as the CEO of 5th Co, approach the challenge of, like, adapting this content to suit different platforms? I’m, I’m thinking specifically of video, because sometimes, like, horizontal video does better, I’m Jeff Sieh, you take all that into effect, and then craft that strategy? Because, once again, for a lot of people, this can get overwhelming really, really quickly.

[00:42:15] Robin Dimond: and no. so I told you people shoot this way and this way. and there’s a reason why we’re doing that because obviously this does not perform very well on Instagram stories. It does not, you know, we’re on YouTube. It is. And so we take the content, we shoot two different ways. that’s, what’s really helped us.

[00:42:34] Now, if we don’t, we go back and we add it. There’s

[00:42:37] things. Dustin will help you out with this, but there’s other platforms that can really

[00:42:42] help your content and, and treat it differently, but there’s also Canva that reshapes it. So we have all these

[00:42:47] tools and I think as marketers or as You know, I don’t look at myself as marketer.

[00:42:52] I look at myself as an innovator. As an innovator,

[00:42:55] go out there and find out what tools there

[00:42:56] are. There’s a lot of AI tools that will help You with video content and we’ll tell you the best way to do it, but then test and don’t kill yourself.

[00:43:04] Don’t go make a ton of content. Put a piece

[00:43:06] of content out there, see how it does.

[00:43:08] If it doesn’t perform well, okay, let’s, let’s do it again.

[00:43:11] If I say third time’s a charm or you break up with it, like third time, it’s like, okay, this type of content is not

[00:43:16] working, so let’s, let’s try something different and

[00:43:18] then ask people like, look at the the goats in the place. And I’m like, Hey, Jeff is using this platform.

[00:43:24] This is way better. I probably should be doing my

[00:43:26] podcast from this. Didn’t know about it till I met him. So You

[00:43:29] have to use your network too and your partnerships out there.

[00:43:33] Jeff Sieh: So that is really cool, because, I mean, that’s actually what

[00:43:35] Paul and Lauren and Gary, I mean, all these

[00:43:37] people who, kind of in our network, we’re always sharing, like, hey,

[00:43:40] I just found You know, AI stuff is

[00:43:42] changing so

[00:43:43] fast. Like, hey, I

[00:43:44] found this new tool called Magi. It’s amazing. And Dustin’s even saying, hmm,

[00:43:48] I wonder if I should content repurposing, like remixing, that would be cool.

[00:43:50] So, So, I love it that he’s

[00:43:52] always thinking, he’s seeing problems that we’re trying to do, and he’s

[00:43:55] trying to make, you know, fix it. and, and Mike even said, you know, Robin first introduced me to this geo

[00:44:00] just this week and it’s fascinating.

[00:44:02] So, that’s where this

[00:44:04] community comes into and that’s why I love,

[00:44:07] like you were talking about podcasting and live video where you can have this community where you

[00:44:11] can bounce ideas off each other.

[00:44:13] So, I think that is great. So, thank you for sharing that, that, that tip. Were we, were you going to say it, Paul? Go ahead, Robin.

[00:44:21] Robin Dimond: I was just gonna say like we need each other and I know I Jeff I told you you’re like I’ve been friends with Mike So I’m gonna give Mike one more shout out. I’ve been friends with him. But like it wasn’t just about a friendship He taught me. Okay. Hey, this is how you’re gonna podcast better get a better light No one can see you Robin, but then there’s things like CEO

[00:44:38] that I’m like It’s I’m in cold plunging in the morning.

[00:44:41] I read about Geo and I was

[00:44:42] like, what the heck? I got to tell Mike about this. And so

[00:44:45] it’s all of us in a network pulling together to come up with that. I

[00:44:48] didn’t meet Dustin until a week ago and he like opened my mind. I was like, literally, I had no questions for him on our own podcast. Cause I was like, my mind has been blown.

[00:44:56] It’s all of us

[00:44:57] pulling together. You cannot do this alone. You can’t,

[00:45:00] that’s It’s an isolation if you do it that way. And so Paul, when I look at your Facebook I want to be like, how did you get a Facebook

[00:45:06] community? Can you teach me that? And I’ll teach you anything else you need to

[00:45:09] know.

[00:45:10] Jeff Sieh: Paul’s amazing in email

[00:45:12] marketing. That’s his like secret sauce is right there and contest.

[00:45:16] Paul Gowder: You know, you mentioned the six platforms and we got to make sure we always put email in there too. Cause for me, that’s where my community exists. We have a Facebook group and it does really well, but I really view my email as the place where I get to talk to them in a more intimate way. So yeah, make sure you add email to that seventh one.

[00:45:34] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:45:35] Paul Gowder: Yeah. but also for everybody out there that’s thinking about, okay, now I need to move into the more, be everywhere. The more, Omnipresent thing. As you’ve seen other companies and you’ve worked with other companies, what are some of those pitfalls that you’ve seen? What, what should we be looking for to make sure that we don’t fall into any traps or, or, you know, start off on the wrong foot?

[00:45:56] What are things you can tell us that, that will help us avoid any issues you’ve seen?

[00:46:01] Robin Dimond: I think one in, and I, I’m, thank you so much for asking this

[00:46:04] question. One is lack of authenticity. I have watched

[00:46:09] small business owners get bought by private

[00:46:12] equity and they come in and it’s just like, it’s overwhelming. They’re not connecting to their audience anymore. And so I would say, be careful of that, be authentic.

[00:46:21] And if you can only post three times a week. Frickin

[00:46:23] great. Post three times a week. That is okay. If you can post

[00:46:27] one time a week, then keep it consistent that every Monday I’m going to drop Monday news or Friday, Friday come vibe with me on

[00:46:33] LinkedIn. That’s all you need to do. But so

[00:46:36] authenticity, be consistent.

[00:46:39] And like, don’t go gangbusters. That’s what everyone does. They’re like, we’re going to post 7, 000 times. We’re going to do eight

[00:46:44] YouTubes. And you’re like, that’s great. can you stay on that little hamster wheel for the rest of your life? No, I don’t, I don’t go to CrossFit as my

[00:46:52] first thing back in the gym, cause I’m not a wackadoo.

[00:46:55] You literally need to go in and start, let’s take a yoga class or maybe let’s stretch a little bit before we go and jump in and go hardcore.

[00:47:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:47:03] Robin Dimond: I think that’s where,

[00:47:04] as business owners or as people who are doing it, it is one of

[00:47:07] those things that you have to, okay, what platforms are we going to do? We’re going to test

[00:47:10] this for 90 days. Then we’ll, if we see

[00:47:13] results, let’s increase it by one more post a week. Don’t go crazy. And business owners who

[00:47:19] make their marketing team die, they can’t keep up with

[00:47:23] it. And you’re going to be

[00:47:24] replacing a ton of people. If you, if you, you’re just going to burn through people. and I do like the Paul said, email. I want to give like email and SMS a huge shout out. If you’re not on that, don’t even worry about all your social platforms. You need to be in email. You need to be able to be texting people. You need to do in person events. For your brand, come up with something. But yeah, there’s other branches of marketing.

[00:47:46] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Or live video because you can repurpose stuff. And I know Mike’s watching because he does a really great job of repurposing everything. And he taught me a lot about that. one of the things, you know, you mentioned going to the gym. I used to lift weights, but they’re so heavy. Right. So I stopped, but being consistent, I

[00:48:04] think is very, very important. You know, like that, like doing a show a week, like we’ve been doing this

[00:48:09] show for three years, every Friday, like

[00:48:12] that, to me, I think the secret sauce for everything and you touched

[00:48:15] on it is being consistent and having those people, in your life that can keep you accountable and help, you know, like Dustin said, we make each

[00:48:23] other better.

[00:48:24] And I thought that was a great thing. And Dustin’s, you know, he

[00:48:26] always is dropping stuff like that. It’s probably cause he looks like Jesus, but, I mean, that is the core

[00:48:33] thing I think is to, we make each other better. So on this last, the kind of this last

[00:48:38] question because we’re, gosh, we’re running out of time, this is so fascinating.

[00:48:41] It’s been so great talking with you, Robin. One of the questions I want to talk about, kind of like some brass tacks, some really practical

[00:48:46] things, because we were talking about, you know, how you guys measure success at, At Fifth and Core and these emerging trends, like how much budget should we allocate?

[00:48:57] Like, you know, I’m, we’ve, a lot of people have read, read Profit First, where you, you have a, you always take so much profit out. How much should we be taking out? For Emerging Tech. Like, how much should we be putting in our coffers so that we can actually invest

[00:49:10] back in ourselves with some of these new things like the Apple Vision Pro or something like that?

[00:49:15] Because money’s tight, and if we have money, we spend it.

[00:49:17] We’re people. That’s how it works. So, do you have like a

[00:49:21] ballpark figure that you’re kind of thinking, like a percentage base of what we should hold back to invest in ourselves in this way?

[00:49:27] Robin Dimond: Oh man, I thought he was going

[00:49:28] in marketing question of percentage. And I was like, okay, I got this. Everyone asked that question.

[00:49:32] I’m good. Then he threw in no new emerging tech. And I’m like,

[00:49:37] so I

[00:49:38] Jeff Sieh: part of marketing

[00:49:39] though. It’s kind of that, you know, now it is.

[00:49:41] Robin Dimond: thank you. That’s why we’re a marketing and innovation company because

[00:49:44] they go there now they’re together like this. What I would say is

[00:49:50] do 10 percent of your budget, if you can, and be thinking about, okay, is this really the investment?

[00:49:57] You probably don’t need the Apple Vision Pro. You, you really don’t, but there are other tools like get Magi, get Canva, get these other things that you need to start working towards.

[00:50:09] Maybe sign up for the paid version of chat GPT, because that is emerging tech. The results that you get, measure it. If your team saved time. And you didn’t pay their salaries during that time, then great. Now you have that bucket to use for a new headset and that’s how we try to do it. Okay. How much time did this new platform save you?

[00:50:29] Great. Did we get to use more money for someplace else? And that as a business owner, please do that with yourself. It’s the same thing. If I want to go on vacation, I’m going to maybe not eat out as much that month. So think about what you’re saving so that you can use it and reallocate funds. It’s really how fast you want to grow.

[00:50:45] But when Chachi PT hit the world. Our computers almost shut down. That’s all we heard about

[00:50:51] for months. AI, every conference I go to, everyone does

[00:50:54] AI. Did you know there’s new AI Disney rides? They’re not, but everyone

[00:50:58] is using it because it’s a buzzword. So this is not going away.

[00:51:02] This is like social. It’s going to be here forever and you need to start investing in it, even if it’s small amounts of money from your business.

[00:51:09] Or partner with people like me, and I, if you’re in Miami, come on, I’ll take you to coffee and we’ll put a headset on you, or if you’re in one of the locations that I’m traveling to, come over and put on a different headset. Start working

[00:51:20] with people and finding those partnerships because you can probably help me in some other way.

[00:51:23] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’s it. And once again, once you experience stuff, that’s what you

[00:51:26] really need is go do the demo at Apple store, even if you’re not going to

[00:51:29] buy it, take the time, set up an appointment and go see what it’s all the talk is about, because it really is kind of mind blowing. Paul, do you have any final thoughts, questions?

[00:51:37] Paul Gowder: No, I just have a page full of notes here.

[00:51:39] So

[00:51:40] Jeff Sieh: That’s right. This has been great. So like Gary, Gary had to bug out early, but he is, you know, once again, there is a podcast that we’ll be dropping about this, but Gary, thank you so much for stopping by today. This has been eye opening. It’s fascinating. We could talk for another hour, but I want to let Robin go because she’s got stuff to do.

[00:51:56] But Robin, where can people find out more about you? You mentioned some speaking things that you’re doing in the near future. So Talk about that. Where can people connect with you? All those things. That is Robin Diamond.

[00:52:07] Robin Dimond: Absolutely. First of all, Paula, you better send me this thing that you’re doing, this event, this gathering. I need to know about that. So send that to me after. But, so I’m Robin Diamond. I’m at fifthandcore. com. So fifth represents the five senses. Core is the root word of heart or courage. So that’s c o r dot com.

[00:52:25] please connect with me

[00:52:26] on LinkedIn. I would love to connect with you

[00:52:28] there. we put Every event that we’re doing out there. So if you see an event and you’re like, Hey, I need tickets, or I want to know more about

[00:52:35] this event, please connect with me on LinkedIn, follow our fifth and core LinkedIn as well, and we can get you newsletters and update you.

[00:52:41] But that’s the best way to connect. again, I’m an open book. So if you have any questions, we’ll try to do our

[00:52:47] best to connect with you. I always say coffee or

[00:52:49] cocktails that can happen virtually. So please reach out.

[00:52:52] Love to talk to you. If there’s a solution that I missed, please

[00:52:55] tell me, so that I can be better for

[00:52:57] the next one and I can share that information.

[00:52:59] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. The amazing Paul Gowder. Where can we find out more about what’s going on? And even some of the stuff that you kind of mentioned today where people can find out more about that.

[00:53:06] Paul Gowder: Yeah. so, my main website, paulgatter. com. But if you’re interested in Native American Powwows or Gathering of Nations coming up, the largest powwow of the year, head over to powwows. com I’d love to help you explore Native American culture.

[00:53:19] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And it’s amazing. It is a great group. he has done some amazing stuff. How long have you been doing the business, Paul? How many, how, how long have you been streaming it?

[00:53:26] Paul Gowder: We started it in 1996.

[00:53:28] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So he’s been around doing it for a while. Anyway, thank you guys so much for watching. Jim. Thank you. He says fascinating episode.

[00:53:36] Thank you And Kira always loves Paul’s shirts. It’s awesome. Thank you Dustin for chiming in as always and Chris Stone And Jim, Fuse, everybody who’s, been on the show. And Corey, thank you for tuning in today. We appreciate you guys. We wouldn’t be able to do the show without you. And once again, thank you for Ecamm, our sponsor.

[00:53:55] You can find out more about them at

[00:53:56] ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Use code JEFF15 to save 15 percent of your first purchase. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Thanks so much for watching and listening. Bye, everybody.

Redefining Podcasts: The Zero-Listen Strategy

🔔 We’re thrilled to have Mike Allton join us to discuss “Redefining Podcasts: The Zero-Listen Strategy.”

Discover how the revolutionary concept of zero-listen podcasts can transform your content strategy, leveraging the power of podcasts for marketing, education, and beyond.

Prepare for an enlightening episode full of insights and innovative ideas that will reshape how you think about content creation! 🚀 

Zero Listen Podcasts: Driving Business Results Through Strategic Podcasting

Introduction: The Emergence of Zero Listen Podcasts

Alright, folks, lean in because we’re about to dive into something that sounds a bit out there, but stick with me—it’s going to be worth it. Have you ever heard of a Zero Listen Podcast? Yeah, it threw me for a loop too. But, as it turns out, this concept is nothing short of a secret weapon in the world of marketing. Coined by the insightful A. Lee Judge, this strategy flips the script on what we traditionally consider successful in the podcasting universe.

So, what’s the deal with Zero Listen Podcasts? In a nutshell, it’s about leveraging podcasts as a powerful tool to drive your business forward—think generating leads and creating resources for your sales and marketing team. And here’s the kicker: it’s not about how many ears catch your show. Instead, it’s about the strategic impact your podcast can have behind the scenes, through building relationships and trust.

Key Takeaway: The primary goal of a Zero Listen podcast is to leverage the podcast to strengthen relationships, generate leads, and drive business outcomes such as sales and subscriptions.

The Strategic Thinking Behind Zero Listen Podcasts

Alright, team, let’s get down to the brass tacks of why Zero Listen Podcasts are shaking things up in the marketing world. Now, if you’re anything like me, the idea of a podcast not sweating over how many folks tune in sounds a bit like hosting a party and not caring if anyone shows up. But here’s the twist—what if your ‘party’ is more about making a few meaningful connections rather than filling the room? That’s where the genius of Zero Listen Podcasts comes into play.

Two Roads Diverged in a Wood…And I Took the One Less Traveled by

When we talk podcasts, we’ve got two camps. First, there’s the traditional kind where success is measured by downloads, listens, and how many people you can get to press play. This is great for creators looking to make a splash, grow an audience, or even monetize directly through sponsorships and ads.

Then, we’ve got the road less traveled: Zero Listen Podcasts. These aren’t about the numbers game. Instead, they’re all about leveraging the podcast format as a dynamic tool to drive real-deal business results. Think less about how many listens and more about getting the right guests.

Why B2B Marketers Should be Sitting Up and Paying Attention

For my B2B pals out there, this is where it gets interesting. Zero Listen Podcasts are like a secret handshake in the world of business marketing. They’re specially crafted to drive not just any results, but the ones that count—sales, leads, and those all-important business connections. It’s about quality over quantity, my friends.

Imagine this: each episode is a golden opportunity to chat with potential partners or dream clients. Instead of cold calling, you’re warm inviting—getting them on your show to share insights. This isn’t just content creation; it’s relationship building, networking, and yes, even sales strategy, all rolled into one.

Crafting Conversations That Count

The real magic happens in how you frame these conversations. It’s not just chit-chat; it’s a carefully crafted dialogue designed to open doors, explore opportunities, and set the stage for what comes next. Each question, each topic, is chosen not just for its face value but for its potential to lead to those positive outcomes we’re all chasing after.

In the world of Zero Listen Podcasts, success isn’t measured by the applause of a crowd but by the nod of a key player who’s ready to talk business. By inviting the right guests and steering the conversation towards mutual goals and challenges, you’re laying down the groundwork for partnerships and projects that could redefine your business.

And just like that, we peel back the curtain on the strategic thinking behind Zero Listen Podcasts. It’s about tuning into a frequency where every guest is a potential partner and every conversation is a step toward your business goals.

Practical Advice for Leveraging Zero Listen Podcasts ​

So how do you make this strategy work for you? Well, buckle up, because I’ve got some golden nuggets of advice from Mike that are going to help you leverage this approach like a pro.

The Guest Experience: Rolling Out the Red Carpet

First things first, your guests are your MVPs. Your number one goal? Make them look good—scratch that—make them look great. This isn’t just about having a friendly chat; it’s about creating a platform where your guests can truly showcase their expertise, insights, and unique value. Think of it as setting the stage for their TED Talk moment.

Every guest is unique, and your approach should be too. While you can have a few go-to questions in your back pocket, tailoring the conversation to each guest’s expertise ensures you’re not just scratching the surface—you’re mining for diamonds. Think of each question as a carefully chosen tool designed to chip away at the ordinary, revealing the extraordinary beneath. Instead of asking, “What’s your professional background?” try, “What moment in your career truly defined the path you’re on today?” These questions don’t just get answers; they invite your guest to share the narrative essence of their journey. 

Scripting and Preparing for Podcast Interviews

To script or not to script, that is the question. And the answer? Mike Allton says a little bit of both. Script those intros, questions, and segues to keep things on track, but leave room for those spontaneous moments of gold. And always, always share your plan with your guests—especially in the B2B world, where the legal and PR gods must be appeased.

Mike implements a detailed onboarding process that does more than just gather the basics like preferred headshots, bios, and links. It delves deeper, asking guests pivotal questions right from the start, such as ‘What’s something you want to teach our audience?’ This not only ensures that each episode is aligned with business objectives—like gaining insights into a target market (the guest) —but also guarantees the production of valuable content. Through this meticulously designed process, Mike ensures that every podcast episode serves dual purposes: achieving strategic business goals while simultaneously delivering content that is educational and enriching. 

The Ultimate Guest Goodie Bag

After the mic goes off, the magic continues. Mike recommends whipping up a packet of content for your guests—clips for their social media, stunning quote graphics, the full podcast episode, and maybe even a “thank you” note. It’s like giving them a goodie bag after a killer party. They get to relive the highlights and share their star moment with their audience, spreading the love (and your brand) far and wide.

Unlocking Sales Potential with Every Episode

Here’s where it gets really juicy. Your podcast isn’t just content; it’s a powerhouse sales tool. Use those insightful conversations to fuel your ads, pinpoint your targeting, and arm your sales team with killer resources. Think of each episode as a Swiss Army knife, ready to tackle different facets of your marketing and sales strategy.

Zero Listen Podcasts redefine traditional success metrics, focusing instead on fostering relationships and driving business growth. By inviting potential partners and customers as guests, they create a unique space for relationship building. This isn’t just networking; it’s crafting a foundation for trust, collaboration, and future sales opportunities through meaningful dialogue.

Framing Solutions Within Stories

Interviews are subtly designed to illuminate the problems your products or services solve, blending your solutions into the conversation. This strategic approach not only highlights your value proposition but also piques interest among listeners and guests alike, drawing attention to what you offer.

Empowering Sales with Rich Content

The generated content, whether it’s clips, blog posts, or social media shares, arms your sales team with tangible examples and narratives to engage prospects effectively. This resource-rich arsenal aids in addressing client concerns and showcases real-world applications of your offerings.

Extending Reach Through Targeted Promotion

Utilizing podcast content in targeted advertising campaigns can significantly amplify your reach. By focusing on specific audiences, Zero Listen Podcasts serve as a lead generation tool, drawing in potential customers from your target market and funneling them into your sales pipeline.

Repurpose Like a Content Recycling Ninja

Don’t stop at just a podcast episode. Chop it up, mix it around, and voilà—you’ve got social media clips, engaging blog posts, dynamic videos, and so much more. It’s about squeezing every drop of value out of your content and making sure it reaches every corner of your audience’s world.

Leveraging Social Proof for Brand Amplification

As this diversified content circulates, especially when shared by your guests, it lends invaluable social proof to your brand. This endorsement, akin to a seal of trust, not only enhances your credibility but also attracts new potential customers and leads from untapped audience segments. The ripple effect of each share translates into organic growth, community engagement, and invaluable credibility for your brand.

Bringing It All Home: The Power of Zero Listen Podcasts

By focusing on business outcomes rather than listener numbers, businesses can integrate Zero-Listen podcasts into their marketing mix to achieve significant results. In shifting towards more outcome-oriented podcasting businesses are empowered to unlock a treasure trove of opportunities—from building deeper relationships and establishing social proof to enhancing sales enablement and driving targeted advertising efforts.

As we wrap up, remember that stepping into the world of Zero Listen Podcasts is about embracing a mindset of strategic content creation and relationship building. And to help you navigate this journey, don’t forget to grab Mike Alltons Marketing Strategy Workbook here. Use the code “freebeard” to get it free.


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to Social Media News Live.

[00:00:01] I’m Jeff Sieh. And you’re not.

[00:00:04] Conor Brown: I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:11] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever heard of a zero listen podcast? Are you wondering maybe how this concept can shape the future of your marketing? Now, I hadn’t heard of it before, and I was certainly intrigued. So today we are delighted to host an expert who’s not only familiar with this innovative approach, but has also implemented Successfully, Mike Alton is going to share his journey of discovering Zero Listen Podcasts, the strategic thinking behind them, and practical advice for leveraging this method in your marketing mix.

[00:00:40] So prepare to uncover the potential of Zero Listen Podcasts to transform your content strategy. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Mike Alton, how you doing today, my friend?

[00:00:55] Mike Allton: Great. I am Jeff Sieh’s BBF as I was introduced earlier today. That was, that was new to me.

[00:01:01] Jeff Sieh: Before Beardfriend. Mike is one of those. I think you and Peg Fitzpatrick and I think maybe even Dustin might have fallen to that BBF category. So, yeah, it was back in the day. I’m so excited. If you guys don’t know who Mike is, you probably have never been on the interwebs before, but you should really get to know him.

[00:01:17] He is a fractional CMO, an international keynote speaker, an author at the Social Media Hat, and Head of Strategic Partnerships at Agora Pulse, where he strengthens relationships, with Social Media Educators, Influencers, and Partner Brands. He has spent over a decade in digital marketing and brings an unparalleled level of experience and excitement to the fore, whether he’s delivering a presentation or leading a workshop.

[00:01:42] Once again, Mike, this is going to be awesome. I’m really interested because when I said, Hey Mike, what do you want to talk about on the show? And he said, Hey, let’s talk about Zero Listen Podcast. I’m like, Okay, I didn’t want to look stupid so I did Google it, but I don’t feel too bad because there’s only one other thing I could find about it because I had never heard about it before, but this is going to be, be a lot of fun.

[00:02:01] Mike Allton: Yeah. So right off the bat, I want to give a huge shoutout to A. Lee Judge. This is his term. He coined it. I have learned from him. It’s something I was actually doing and didn’t know there was a word for it, a phrase. So when it popped in my inbox a couple of weeks ago, I was like, yes, that’s it. This is what I’m doing.

[00:02:18] So yeah, I’m excited to talk about it, but definitely total credit to Lee, for the phrase Zero Listen Podcast.

[00:02:24] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It is a great, it’s very, it makes you want to click and find out more about it, so that’s why we used it. I do wanna do a shout out because, you know, we use this as a podcast. We also, it’s a live video and we’re using e camm and they sponsor the show. And I wanna give a big shout out. You can go to, use code Jeff 15, you say 15% on your first purchase, but some cool things they just released version 4.2 this Monday, and now you have Instagram live.

[00:02:52] Go right into it and actually pull in comments from Instagram Live, which I don’t know of another tool that does that. it’s got a vertical safe zone, so you can go there. They have scenery. video integration, where you can actually edit your videos. And also they have a now, updated virtual camera. So you can actually use the virtual camera in Ecamm on your FaceTime calls.

[00:03:11] It’s built into your Mac now. So Discord, Keynote, all those things now work with that virtual camera, which is really, really handy. So. Make sure you check them out, ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. All right, now for this Zero Listen podcast, Mike, this was just really, really fascinating. I really want you to explain this concept of Zero Listen podcast, and it’s how you’re using it primarily for your business.

[00:03:38] Mike Allton: Yeah. So The way I like to think about it is that there are really two different kinds of podcasts and podcasters. The traditional podcast, if you think of, you know, big names like Joe Rogan and many others, they’re driving their show based on how many people actually consume that podcast content.

[00:03:56] They’re listening, they’re downloading, they’re subscribing, and they’re monetizing through sponsorships, just like we just listened to a great sponsorship of Ecamm. That’s a lot of the ways that those kinds of people are promoting their shows as a vehicle for reaching those individuals. And that’s great.

[00:04:13] There’s nothing wrong with that. But if you are particularly in the B2B space and you’re not creating a podcast just to drive listens, you’re creating a podcast because you want to drive actual business results, sell a product, Gain leads and sales and subscribers and those kinds of things of your actual service.

[00:04:31] The zero listen podcast strategy basically says, look, our goals have nothing to do with listenership of the audio podcast. If people listen, that’s great. It’s not that it’s not that we don’t want listeners, but that’s not the primary purpose. The primary purpose is to use the podcast as a vehicle to drive these other business results.

[00:04:49] And so that can look like a lot of different things. And we’ll dig into this in a little bit. But what I really want you to take away from this is that the podcast now becomes. A vehicle for driving business results. It has to fit into your overall marketing strategy. So there’s going to be a lot of other things that happen that we’re maybe going to focus on, but an easy example might be where let’s say Connor here is actually one of my target ICPs.

[00:05:13] I want to sell to Connor. I want to sell to people just like him, and I want to sell to him specifically. So I’m going to invite him on the show. As a guest, because quite frankly, inviting somebody to be a guest in your podcast is typically a lot easier than to get them to say yes to a demo or a sales call.

[00:05:31] So I get Connor on the podcast and I’m developing a relationship with him. I’m matching and mirroring him and I’m building rapport during the interview and I’m asking him questions and getting him to know him during the interview. And now after the interview, a couple of things have happened. First of all, we’ve developed that rapport.

[00:05:46] So he’s gotten to know, like, and trust me a little bit. I’ve made him look good. And after that call, we can potentially take the conversation even further. I mean, you and I both know, Jeff, a lot of the best conversations happening when we’re not actually recording either before the interview or after the interview.

[00:06:02] And so often as hosts, we’re like, and we’ve been doing this for many years. We’re like, gosh, I wish I would have recorded that segment. The same thing can happen with a zero listen podcast. And that’s just one of the things that you can do with them.

[00:06:14] Jeff Sieh: So it’s funny you mention this, I have a friend who actually, He started his podcasting business by doing that. He would go interview SaaS companies and, you know, he was trying to get hired for being, you know, working with them as a marketing guy. And what ended up happening, he actually started making, he now offers podcasting services for SaaS people to make those connections.

[00:06:35] They don’t really care, like you said, podcast strategy that they’re getting tons of downloads. They want to be introduced to other people in their markets that they can form partnerships with and stuff like that. And he’s now created an entire. So, I just think it’s super intriguing.

[00:06:52] Mike Allton: Yeah. And this is something I, like I said, I’ve been doing for two years. I didn’t know that there was a phrase for it until he came along. I was like, Oh yeah, that’s exactly what I was doing with my partnership unpacked podcast.

[00:07:06] Jeff Sieh: It’s a great podcast, by the way.

[00:07:08] Conor Brown: Love it. So I think, you know, too, it’s, it’s a strategy of, of how you’re going to do it, how you’re going to talk to someone, right, of building those relationships and, and things like that. But Mike, from, from a content creation perspective, and then also utility perspective, how does this differ from a traditional.

[00:07:26] Like you said, an audience focused podcast. but the setup of it, and then I guess how you use this down the road too.

[00:07:36] Mike Allton: From an initial setup perspective, to my knowledge, it’s essentially the same. I’m obviously not Joe Rogan. I’ve never had a big podcast, where I’m driving, you know, just tons of listenerships. But. From what I know, from what I’ve done, the initial setup is the same. You’re going to decide what your podcast is going to look like, sound like, what you’re going to talk about, who you’re trying to talk to, and you’re going to start to reach out to guests and you’re going to interview them, whether it’s live or recorded, and then you’re going to push that out to the podcast channels.

[00:08:03] Where the real differentiator I think is, is then what happens next. With a traditional podcast, you promote the shows and you repurpose them, and we’ll get into that. But the, the focus is on having people listen to the podcast content. With the zero listen strategy, that’s not really the focus. We’ll promote the podcast.

[00:08:22] Sure. We’ll try and get some listens. Absolutely. But we first and foremost want to spend time up front researching those guests and making sure that we’re framing the conversation and we’re asking questions that are going to lead to positive outcomes. Additional conversations and potential business goals.

[00:08:40] Easy example. Again, I’m going to pick on you, Connor. If I was interviewing you and I wanted to do business with you, I might make sure that one of the questions that I ask you during our interview has to do with some of the things that we solve in my business. Like, if I’m interviewing you for Agorapulse, right, I might talk to you about, you know, how are you managing social media today, and what are some of the struggles that, that, that you’re facing?

[00:09:02] Just kind of an open question, and I don’t really care how you answer, but I’m going to listen to your answer. And then after the show, I’m going to say, kind of, that was fantastic. You, you were a great guest, and if maybe you don’t do a lot of podcast interviews, like maybe your target audience probably aren’t really doing a lot of podcasting, they might be a little nervous.

[00:09:19] Coming into the podcast, it might be their first time being interviewed, right? So that’s an opportunity for you as the host to really make them feel fantastic. Conor, you were fantastic. I really loved your answers. And remember when I asked you about how you were managing social media and you talked about how you were pretty happy with the tool that you were using, but you were using a spreadsheet to create UTM parameters and try and track all that stuff.

[00:09:38] And it wasn’t working very well and you’re spending a lot of time. And you know, what if I could show you a tool that actually has that built in and you don’t have to use a. Spreadsheet, and you don’t have to worry about it ever happening. Was that something you’d be interested in? I’ve, I’ve basically sold him on Agorapulse by framing the question up front and then responding after the call.

[00:09:59] And the funny thing is, is they set it on video, on recording. They can’t go back and say, no, I’m not really struggling with that. They said it, you’ve got it. So that’s one thing that you can do is right. You can frame the podcast right up front and frame those questions. The other thing you’re going to want to do is use the actual material that you create differently.

[00:10:17] We’ll talk about all the different ways that you can repurpose in a moment, but from a utilization perspective, it’s about putting that content in the hands of your sales team, your product marketing team, using it to drive ads to the rest of your target audience. I’ll be a hundred percent transparent here to Gora Paul.

[00:10:32] So one of the audiences we’re, Targeting right now is, is social media managers who work for retail brands. So we’re spinning up a whole new podcast to talk to those people. And I’m interviewing those kinds of people. And so the front part of that strategy is, is absolutely spot on. I’m going to be bringing on those exact social media managers to talk to them on the podcast and, and see how they’re doing social media today with their retail brands.

[00:10:54] But then we’re also going to take that content and we’re going to advertise it to the other people that we’re targeting in that same ICP, in that same target list and make ourselves aware. To that audience through the content that we’re creating.

[00:11:08] Jeff Sieh: That’s really cool. So, one of the things that I think, you know, because you and I have been both involved in the podcasting, like, way back into Google there you go again, Chris. the, The thing is, you know, we’ve listened to podcasts about podcasting and everything is about the numbers.

[00:11:26] It’s all about getting those numbers and, and it’s, it’s almost a mind shift, but like Some of it happens organically and like you mentioned before not being able to actually you know We put a name on it like the zero listen strategy, but I know like Chris Stone He does a lot of editing, you know videos and remote production And now he’s because he does such a good job with that and he’s had guests on they’re like Hey, can you do my show?

[00:11:47] And so I think a lot of it’s kind of been organic, but we really haven’t been strategic about this So what kind of? You know, we, we kind of touched a little bit on repurposing, but what are some of those key strategies that you recommend for like transforming when a podcast is done into all these different multiple content types?

[00:12:05] Cause you’ve been, I mean, you have done that for your blog for years and now you’re doing it kind of with podcasts. So what are some of those key strategies that, okay, I’m done. I still want to do this zero listen strategy, but I also want to make my guests look good. What kind of, you know, content can I create out of it?

[00:12:21] Mike Allton: Yeah. So first we’ll talk about it from the guest perspective. And again, a lot of podcasters are already doing this. You interview me, we have a great show after the interview and you’re done with the editing, you might send me a packet or an email. Thanks Mike, for being on the show, you know, here’s the podcast and that sort of thing.

[00:12:37] You want to make sure with this particular podcast, you go as heavy into this as you can. You are absolutely going to send them a thank you note. You’re actually going to send them, you are absolutely going to send them a packet that has. Multiple Clips, Suggested Social Posts, Quote Graphics. Here’s the blog post.

[00:12:54] Here’s the podcast. Here’s the YouTube video. You want to make sure that all of that is included and you, and you don’t, I don’t wanna say half ass it, but you know, a lot of people don’t really go to the ends of the earth to make sure that all those things are included, but that’s a big part of the strategy because we want to make sure that these people know how good we made them look and have an opportunity to share it with their audience.

[00:13:15] And this is where the strategy takes off a little bit because those are the people that are already connected with more of your target audience, right? They’re already friends with other people just like them working in other businesses. So we definitely want them sharing to LinkedIn, to Instagram, to TikTok, maybe even opportunities for them to show off how good they looked and the smart things that they said on your show because these clips are going to be all about Them, how they solve their problems.

[00:13:43] Even if your tool or solution was part of that. No, they’re the hero, make them the hero in these clips. That’s the first part of the strategy. The second part of the strategy is sales enablement. Whether you’ve got a full blown sales team with a sales enablement manager or not, you can empower your sales team to have this kind of information because you’re talking to people who are solving the same kinds of problems that all the rest of your targeting audience is.

[00:14:10] And again, whether your solution is mentioned in those conversations or not, your sales team is going to be talking to people who in the course of those conversations are going to bring up things like, yeah, I have problems, you know, keeping on, on top of permissions, or I have problems with storage or whatever it is that your solution solves for, and you can create great content that helps answer that And address a lot of those questions.

[00:14:34] And again, this is where you need to make sure that you’re doing everything that you possibly can, because again, a normal podcaster puts out the podcast, the publish the show notes, make a couple of clips, you need to go further, you need to make sure that you’ve got a blog post with a full transcript, maybe push that into a PDF.

[00:14:51] Talk to your sales team and find out how are they typically communicating with their prospects? Are they sharing one pagers, PDFs, workbooks? What is it? What, how are they sharing content? Is it YouTube? Is it short clips? Is it long clips? Have it all and then put all that into some kind of a system or repository, whether it’s an Airtable database or a sheet that they can quickly go to.

[00:15:15] It’s as if they’re talking to a prospect and the prospect says, Hey, I’m having an issue with this. Whatever this is, they might not necessarily have your entire Rolodex of podcasts in their brain. The salesperson, they can’t, they’ve got enough on their plate. You want to make it super easy for them to go someplace and do a quick search.

[00:15:32] You know, who else has, you know, had this kind of an issue, just a keyword search and come up with the list of the resources that you’ve already made available. And the good news is with today’s tools, it might sound like I’m talking about a lot of work. I’m not. We all know, thanks to AI and this proliferation of tools, there’s, there’s so many options available today that can really streamline and virtually automate most of what I’m talking about.

[00:15:59] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, just, and that’s what we do. Like, so, after the show’s done, the first thing it does goes up to the script, and we chop it up, and we have templates in there, and then my daughter actually takes it, and, and we use the Girl Pulse, and we’re actually able to, we, like I was telling Mike before, I think we have, And we have buckets for each different social network.

[00:16:17] And I think we have like 250 clips that constantly rotate. And Mike was making fun of that. Like, yeah, once a month I get tagged on it. But if you’ve noticed all those clips and, and. I was strategic by accident, which is my life, but, but, I always make it about my guests. Like you’ll rarely see my face on there.

[00:16:35] It’s mostly about my guests, which allows me to get great guests. And they also share that stuff. They love seeing it. And so when I ask them to come back on my show, they know that I’m going to do that for them and make them, like you said, the hero. So I think that’s a really good way. To do the repurposing thing.

[00:16:51] You know, we all see a lot of those influence out there that just seemed to always be talking about themselves. And, you know, even on their podcast, you know, they’re just waiting to talk. You know, they’re, they’re waiting. I didn’t hear what you said, but I’m going to say something that’s going to promote me.

[00:17:05] And. That’s not what works on this kind of strategy is what I’m hearing.

[00:17:09] Mike Allton: Yeah. Yeah. Cause this, the whole podcast is not about you. Ever. It’s not, it’s not even about your brand. cause again, most of the time you’re going to be talking, if you do this strategy, right, you’re talking to people who aren’t customers yet. So there’s not going to be a lot of conversation about your brand or solution, cause they just don’t know it.

[00:17:26] They can’t. And that’s fine. That’s not the point. You can work that in. I mean, one of the things that I do, another trick is that I bake in my, intro, my outro and my, my mid roll video when I’m recording, I don’t, I don’t have those edited in. So the guest. Watches those right along with me, right along with the audience, right?

[00:17:48] They watch the intro and the outro. Exactly. The mid roll is a commercial. It’s almost always about Agorapulse. It’s almost always a testimonial. Like we have our weekly webinar, the Martech show. So we just aired this past week on Wednesday, and we were talking with Chase Buckner from High Levels.

[00:18:06] Fantastic conversation, and right in the middle of it, we were talking about marketing automation. So right in the middle of it, I played a minute and a half testimonial from Stony Creek, marketing agency about how they use Agorapulse, and how they use it for marketing automation, and responding to comments, all that kind of thing.

[00:18:24] So Chase had to sit there and watch, and I’m not necessarily using Chase as an example of a target. I’ve been a fan of Mitch Joel. I’ve been a fan of his podcast. Mitch Joel was a great example. I don’t want to pick on Mitch, but I was interviewing Mitch. He’s a fantastic guest. I mean, if you can get Mitch on your show, do it.

[00:18:44] But I have not had a long time relationship with him. With Mitch, you know, I’ve known each other, but we’ve never done a lot of work together. I was quite frankly thrilled and a little shocked that he agreed to come on the show. And so halfway through the interview, I’m playing this mid roll ad about Agorapulse.

[00:19:00] I know he’s never looked at Agorapulse. I know we’d never talked about it. So he’s watching that. And the way I’ve got my show set up is I play that and then I segue into the next question. He stopped me. And so some of the effect of, wow, that was a really interesting, little, little snippet you play there.

[00:19:16] I should give a Gorepulse a look. That’s like, yes,

[00:19:20] Jeff Sieh: That’s

[00:19:20] Mike Allton: yes, you should.

[00:19:22] Jeff Sieh: That’s a genius strategy, by the way. I, I never thought about putting that in front of your clients in that way, by pre baking it in, that’s really, really cool. Right.

[00:19:30] Conor Brown: is that the main success metric that, that you’re going for, Mike? Cause. You know, in a traditional podcast, it’s, it’s how many downloads am I getting? How many listens? If it’s a video, what’s my watch time at, right? And then maybe, you know, are people clicking my affiliate links from, from that tangentially, but it is that metric of, you know, what I’m going to look into this tool is, is that the kind of the sole metric when it comes to a, a zero listen podcast?

[00:20:01] Mike Allton: This is one of the challenges for this strategy because in marketing overall, we like to have that North star KPI. You’ll hear that all the time, right? That one thing that’s really most important that we’re going to obsess over that metric. And, and that’s great. If you can get that in this strategy, that’s typically going to end up being a disappointment because what.

[00:20:19] You really trying to do is accomplish about eight different things with each one of these shows, getting the individual guests. To raise their hand and say, yeah, I’d like to take out your, check out your tool or solution or whatever it is that you’re offering a hundred percent. That is a metric that you’re going to track.

[00:20:35] In fact, what you need to do is bake in a way to make sure that your guests are being tracked in your CRM, just like any other prospect that raised your hand. Not that you necessarily want to start nurturing them as soon as they come on your show, because they did not sign up for that. But if you’ve got a great CRM, like HubSpot or Salesforce, something like that, you’re tracking each time.

[00:20:54] A prospect consumes a piece of content. Did they attend a webinar? Did they read a blog post? Did they sign up for a trial? Those kinds of things. Being a guest on a podcast needs to now be part of that. So you got to work with your, your rev ops team or your marketing ops team, or figure it out yourself if you don’t have a team.

[00:21:11] So those are the things that you want to look at. Absolutely. Did they go on to sign up for a free trial or a demo on their own? Absolutely. There’s also the sales enablement piece, right? How much content were you able to create for your marketing department, for your product marketing department, and for your sales team?

[00:21:27] How much traction did that content get? Well, we might not get a lot of listens on the podcast itself, The blog post that is created as a result of the podcast, that might get a lot of search traffic. So you want to pay attention to that. That might end up driving some trials or demos or, or signups, whatever it is that you’re tracking as a business metric. And then how often is the sales team actually able to use? That content in the pursuit of those other goals. And then finally, I mentioned earlier, you should be using this as part of your advertising and paid media strategy. You can use this content in spots or newsletters. You can cross promote on other podcasts.

[00:22:06] I’m joining Jason Falls Marketing Podcast Network so that I can get these podcasts in front of other. Marketing, podcast listeners, right? There’s the target audience there. So each one of these metrics, I would hate to just pick one because I would be afraid that the results are going to be rather small from just one.

[00:22:28] Now, when you take them on the whole, we would expect to see a lot of overall success, but it’s going to be hard to merge them into a single metric,

[00:22:34] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, because a lot of people were like, oh, I heard your, I heard you talking with Mike Alton on the podcast. It was really interesting. You know, I’ve got a, you know, I would love to check out your service or how you’d be on your show or whatever it is. I mean, there’s so many different ways and, you know, the key, like you were saying, is tracking those things.

[00:22:50] The other thing earlier, Mike, you said was, you know, Make it easy for the guests to share it. Like you kind of, we kind of glossed over it a little bit, but the podcast that I love to be on is when they give me swipe copy and they have, they already have had asked for my headshot or whatever, and they already give me the graphics and I can just send it out.

[00:23:06] Now, they need to be good, because I’ve also had ones that have been sent to me, and I’m like, I can’t share that on my channel. Like, it’s that bad. You know, you’ve, we’ve all been there, like, I’m sorry, but, you know, and that’s awkward to do, but make sure, you know, it’s, there’s some great Canva templates. I mean, you can just, it’s, it’s not that hard to put together.

[00:23:24] So, yeah, I thought it was really, really

[00:23:27] Mike Allton: I do that every week, I’ll be honest. I mean, I’ve got a video team that’s creating nice, polished, repurposed clips from the Martech show and all of our content, but every single Wednesday with the Martech show, my very first segment, we spend like three or four minutes, my host Robin Diamond and I, dishing about something new.

[00:23:45] In tech, like a couple of weeks ago, it was NVIDIA this week. It was Apple and people were talking about how there might be an Apple ring coming and how that might tie into certain things. So we spent a couple of minutes talking about that. So as soon as it shows over, that’s timely information. I don’t want to wait for my video team to catch up.

[00:24:01] I take out that clip, I splice it, I put it into a Canva template that I already spent time creating. and then I pushed that into Descript so I can add some nice, captions. And I push that out to all my channels. So that goes out later that afternoon, every single week.

[00:24:17] Conor Brown: So Jeff, I’m going to go down a rabbit hole.

[00:24:19] Jeff Sieh: Go for it. Ha,

[00:24:20] Conor Brown: So when I’ve learned from the best. So when it comes to this, I know you said that like the show you were just talking about every Wednesday, but it. Is this different from a traditional podcast when it comes to scheduling? Because with a, you know, a podcast where we’re focused on downloads and listens, consistency in scheduling is key, whether it’s monthly, weekly, bi weekly, whatever it is.

[00:24:45] For me, this sounds more like it’s on the guest, right? We want the right guest producing the right content. We have so much stuff we have to do on the back end. Once it’s published, get up a blog post, all these other things, Is it less about like a consistent schedule and more, let’s get the right person on the right episode so we can create the right content afterward?

[00:25:07] Mike Allton: That’s a great question, Connor. And you’re absolutely right. From a podcast audience perspective, I would say, yeah, the schedule really probably doesn’t matter because you’re not expecting or trying to have this captive podcast audience that’s always looking for your episodes to drop on Monday mornings. However, if you’ve got a team in place, or even your own business responsibilities, it’s probably still in your best interest that you’ve got a routine and you’re doing this on a regular cadence, whether it’s weekly, bi weekly, monthly, what you decide, whatever it is that you’re going to go after. With my podcast, they all happen to be weekly.

[00:25:45] It doesn’t have to be that way. But I also have a team in place. I also have certain things that I want to meet in terms of objectives and performance metrics. And because we’re also pushing the content out as blog posts and videos and other things that schedule probably does help us probably don’t have that audience looking for it even on the blog, but if you’ve got a content team where There’s also other kinds of blog content that’s going out.

[00:26:14] They’re probably going to want to make sure that they can always count on you to have your transcript and your show notes and your podcast ready to be published as a blog post every single Monday. That way they know they’re putting out their content the rest of the week. And it’s, it’s not kind of a hit or miss thing.

[00:26:30] Jeff Sieh: So one of the things, and I was on, Jim Coulson, his, he has like his own kind of personal fun tech podcast. We were talking about the Apple Vision Pro. Last night, but he works for Gallup and they have a, he is their podcast producer and it’s, they have like six podcasts. I mean, they have their own little network, I mean, little network, but Gallup.

[00:26:50] so he, he does all their stuff, but they’ve seen the power of this. Like they, they don’t call it zero listen because they have tons of listeners, but it’s not just this kind of thing, but what they do, and I know other podcasters do this, they, they have seasons. Have you ever done seasons for your show, Mike?

[00:27:06] And you might want to talk about that a little bit because instead of doing an episodic every week kind of a thing, a lot of businesses do seasons and then they’ll take a little bit of break, maybe catch up and then go to the next one.

[00:27:18] Mike Allton: So my first takeaway there is that Gallup has six shows and therefore they have a podcast network. So I’ve got five shows. So if I,

[00:27:24] Jeff Sieh: You should have

[00:27:24] Mike Allton: I have a podcast network?

[00:27:26] Jeff Sieh: yeah, exactly.

[00:27:27] Conor Brown: b

[00:27:52] Mike Allton: this was going to be season two. I’ve actually put a little bit of a pause on that show because I had to kick off all these other shows.

[00:27:57] I want to revisit it later this year. with the new shows, I’m doing them on seasons by quarter. And what I like about that is it’s an opportunity for us as a brand. It’s a podcaster at the end of the season to do a look back. Who did I talk to? What were some of the trends? What were some of the themes?

[00:28:18] What do I want to change with the upcoming season? Do I want to just create a nice little montage video and talk about who did we have on the show this past season? Who’s coming up next season? My video team did this most amazing montage for me for Partnership Unpacked. I did 50 episodes last year, Partnership Unpacked, and, The, honestly, I don’t say this to brag, but I was just really blessed and thrilled with the logos that I was able to bring on and the guests that I was able to bring on last season.

[00:28:45] So it was really empowering and exciting to see that in a quick montage and to talk about the brands that we’re bringing on this season, like Oracle was already released and some other fantastic solutions. So that’s, Fun. It’s interesting. And it’s also an opportunity for you to revise your targeting and invitation strategy on that regular basis.

[00:29:06] I’m kicking off three new shows right now, which means I’m reaching out to guests right now. I’m asking them to be on the show. And I’ve got zero social proof and all the podcast hosts in the audience are like, yeah, gosh, that’s the worst part. I don’t have an existing host that I can name drop and say, yeah, I’ve talked to Guy Kawasaki.

[00:29:24] I’ve talked to Gary Goldstein, right? I can’t do that yet in a couple of months that will no longer be the case. And yeah, I could just do that on the fly and change that stuff when it occurs. But again, if you do that seasonal approach, Quarterly, monthly, even you can just use that as an opportunity to revisit all of your materials.

[00:29:45] Is it time for me to change my invitation strategy, which would include the text and how I can now bake in some social proof. And I can link to the podcast. Like I, again, I can’t do that now. I was doing that by the middle of last year with the partnership, partnership unpacked, when I approached the leader of partnerships at Oracle, I was able to link to the existing show and he could see it, he was already a listener.

[00:30:05] Strangely enough. But. In a couple months, I’ll be able to do that with the new shows, with the Martech show and the other ones that I’m producing. It’s also an opportunity for you to rethink the branding, the show description, and maybe start to bake in themes. So this is one of the really cool things that you can do if you’re on a seasonal perspective, is think about the topics that you want to talk about in the upcoming season, things that you might not have even thought about when you first launched the show.

[00:30:30] But now that you’ve got for Eight, a dozen episodes under your belt. Those are four, eight or a dozen conversations that you’ve now had with your target audience. And if you’re a thing like me, you don’t know all the target audiences that you potentially have as a business, but once you start to have those conversations, you learn.

[00:30:47] I’ll be transparent. I know marketing agencies really, really well, because I’ve had a lot of conversations with agency owners over the years. I don’t necessarily know social media managers who work for hospitality. That’s an industry. I’m familiar with hospitality. Connor, you’re really familiar with hospitality, right?

[00:31:04] But unless you’ve talked to a lot of social media managers in that space, you might not be familiar with the day to day struggles and challenges and solutions that they’re coming up with. Once I’ve had those conversations and I know the target audience a lot better, I might start to see themes emerge from those conversations and I might realize, you know what, I might want to spend an entire month talking about the seasonality of the use of hospitality, right?

[00:31:30] You know, people are, you know, spring break and Christmas breaks and summer breaks, right? There’s, there’s natural seasons in that industry that are a little less apparent in many other industries like marketing agencies don’t really have that kind of a seasonality in their business. And have an entire series of episodes just talking about, you know, how social media managers in the hospitality, region talk about spring break and how we prepare for it, how we deal with it, how we deal with the aftermath.

[00:31:56] It’s not spring break anymore. What do we do next? There’s all kinds of things that we can talk about and break down that I think that’s that seasonal approach.

[00:32:04] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. That’s fa that’s fascinating. one of the things, and I wanna kinda go back to what Connor asked a little bit about ROI, it, so it’s working for a Agora Pulse. Like there’s a reason that you are putting on more workload on yourself to do five shows, right? Like you started with one or two, and then it’s like, so how did you go to your boss and say, listen, and why are you putting so much emphasis on?

[00:32:31] Because it’s gotta be working. Like, you know, that’s my thing. It’s like it’s. I know people have the struggle and they want to maybe do a podcast for their business or they want to do more podcasting for their business. They may want to be like Jim Coulson and be the podcast guy inside of their marketing arm of their company.

[00:32:47] How do you approach your boss and say, see this is it’s working, here’s what’s working and, and why? how did you do that with like Emmerich at, your polls?

[00:32:57] Mike Allton: Well, honestly, for me, it was a bit of an accident and it started with, yeah, 16, 18 months ago. It was, it was basically late 2022. We had a new CMO at the organization and he wanted the entire organization to have a number of, Shows, webinars, live video streams, podcasts. You want us to be making a lot of noise as an organization.

[00:33:19] And so as a team, we were talking through who could do what, what would make sense. And it occurred to me that I could do a show about partnerships. That’s my a hundred percent of my role at Agorapulse. And within that partnerships umbrella, I could be talking about influencer marketing, brand partnerships, event marketing, co marketing, co selling.

[00:33:37] Oh, there’s all kinds of ways that you can look at partnerships, affiliates even. And I said, well, I can use that. platform of the show to talk about these topics, educate myself. I even say that in the introduction, I specifically say, Hey, this is an opportunity for me to pick the brains of experts in the industry.

[00:33:56] And I used it that way. I would bring people on and I would just. Have them teach me for free on this show.

[00:34:03] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:34:04] Mike Allton: But I also recognize that it was going to be an opportunity for me to deepen the relationships or even create relationships with new potential partners in ways that I wouldn’t be able to do before.

[00:34:16] You know, as a, as a, as a B2B SaaS company, we can all think of top brands in the space, Slack, Asana, the networks themselves, Meta, TikTok, and so on. And. Often, just like in a sales call, if you approach these folks cold in an email or a LinkedIn and say, Hey, you know, we’d like to partner with you and they’ve never heard of you, they’re probably not going to partner with you.

[00:34:41] But when I approached an individual who leads the agency program for Snapchat and invited him to be on the podcast, He said, Yeah, sure. I’ll be a guest on your podcast. Max Rivera was a fantastic guest on the podcast. And now we’re starting to partner on some other things. And so that was hopefully the start of a great relationship.

[00:35:06] Now, You could almost look at this approach to podcasting as networking. you know, Jeff, you and I have been to Social Media Marketing World many times, and we go always to the, the Hyatt, the Grand Hyatt Bar, which is outside of the event, right? The event’s over in the convention center, but we’re in a hotel next to the convention center before the, the conference, after the conference.

[00:35:31] For networking, to meet our friends, of course, but also to meet the other attendees, other speakers, or people who are running social media or marketing for businesses, it’s networking. And the reason we do it is A, to have fun, of course, but B, to meet people that might have an opportunity to have something happen in the future.

[00:35:53] You don’t know what’s going to happen with those relationships. You know, somebody you met at the Grand Hyatt bar four or five years ago, you know, might be somebody that you’re doing a lot of business with. Today, it’s the same thing with these podcast episodes, right? I’m interviewing people every single week, sometimes multiple times a week.

[00:36:09] I’m pushing out the podcast every single week, and I am hopeful and open to all kinds of opportunities that might happen as a result of those interviews, but I don’t know what’s going to happen. So, about, 16, 18 months ago, I was on a Slack community. It was all about partnerships. And I just put a post in there and said, Hey, I’m I’m starting a new podcast.

[00:36:33] It’s all about partnerships. Let me know if you’d like to be a guest on the, on the partnership, unpacked podcast. And this young lady reached out and said, Hey, I’d like to have my CEO be a guest on your podcast. We run a marketing agency down in South Florida and we think she’d be a great guest on the podcast.

[00:36:50] I said, sure, absolutely. Bring her on. So she was my guest on the podcast. My first. And I say it that way because the first four episodes I’d actually recorded three years ago, and then had to stop for some other stuff. So I brought those back and then started all afresh. First week of January, 2023.

[00:37:10] Robin Diamond was my first guest on the new Reborn Partnership Unpacked podcast. We had a fantastic conversation. I’d never met her before she came onto The Green Room. Never seen her before in my life, other than her LinkedIn profile and the information she submitted via the form. So that was very much a cold call for us.

[00:37:28] But we talked a little bit in the green room, then we did the interview, and then we talked a lot more after the call, and started to develop a relationship, started to develop a rapport. Fast forward now a year and a half later. She’s my co host on the Marketech show. She’s been a speaker multiple times for me in the summit.

[00:37:42] I actually got to meet her for the first time face to face a couple of weeks ago in Miami at the e commerce evolution experience event. I hate that word. It’s too many

[00:37:51] Jeff Sieh: very long.

[00:37:53] Mike Allton: It’s very hard to say, but the EEE event in Miami, we got to meet for the first time, so, I mean, she’s one of my best friends now.

[00:37:59] We’re doing so many fantastic things together all as a result of her being a guest. On that podcast, her team is promoting the Martech show like gangbusters every single week. So she’s helping us. We’re helping them. It’s a great relationship. Just a simple example of one of the kinds of things that can happen as a result of bringing somebody on your podcast and having this opportunity to have a, just a frank and informal conversation.

[00:38:23] I

[00:38:25] Jeff Sieh: want to mention real quick Connor that like And it can be a slow burn, right? You mentioned 10 years ago, like, we, I don’t know how long ago it was when we first had Guy on our show, but now, all those years later, I’m doing his podcast. And it’s because the relationship we, we did all those times ago, and, and Touch and Bass in between there, and Peg Fitzpatrick, who, you know, really helped formulate that, going forward.

[00:38:46] But those all

[00:38:47] Mike Allton: think it was also because you stalked him outside of his

[00:38:50] Jeff Sieh: No, that was, gosh, that was at South by Southwest and that was before even Mobile Live was a thing. We had this contraption with Ronnie Bincer that we like duct taped together and it’s like so wild. Yeah, that was, that was when I just started growing my beard. Anyway, but yeah, but those things happen because you don’t know and like that’s why you have to be consistent and keep doing it and keep reaching out.

[00:39:13] and the other thing is, Other podcasters, like Mike has been on my show. He’ll say like, Hey, you need to have this person on your show. And I’ll say, yeah, hey, you also, I have the connection here. You should try to get this person ’cause it would make perfect sense. And those kind of things, which aren’t really a part of the podcast are kind of the outside of it, but make a huge difference on guests that you get and are able to, you know, you know, have, build relationships with

[00:39:40] Mike Allton: That’s a great point. And that’s something you need to build into that routine, right? Once you’ve interviewed one person from your target ICP, whoever that is, right? Ask them. Do you know anybody else who’d love to come on the show? Anyone else that I should be talking to? And they may or may not know anybody.

[00:39:55] They might not think of anybody right then. Put that into the email that you send them afterwards also as a reminder. Hey, just don’t forget if there’s anybody else you can think of that can be on the show, that’d be great. Because again, they’re probably going to come up with somebody just like them that you didn’t know, but that’s still part of your target audience.

[00:40:09] And now you’ve got a warm introduction instead of a cold outreach. And it’s so much more likely that you’ll get that next person on the show.

[00:40:15] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, very, very cool.

[00:40:16] Conor Brown: I love that. I mean, I think you can totally see the power of creating connections and building relationships just through this alone. And Mike, you’re doing it so much at Agora Pulse and, and I love that. And Jeff, I’m going to kind of combine a couple of questions here, but you know, talk a little bit more about how have you leveraged podcasts to strengthen relationships, but more so I’m interested in hearing a podcast is done and it’s a piece of content.

[00:40:41] How have you taken that and, and. Gone through effective ways to create new connections and strengthen existing ones. I know you talk about a lot about making sure the sales team has what they need from content that you’ve created, but how have you seen that work? Taking content from this kind of podcast strategy and creating relationships or building on existing ones?

[00:41:03] Mike Allton: Yeah. A lot of it has to do with that social proof that I mentioned. Earlier, right? Where once you’ve done a few of these and you’ve gotten some folks and you’ve actually published the podcast and you’ve, you’ve made them look good. Now, the next time you reach out to somebody new, it’s a little bit easier.

[00:41:19] You can share some specific names. They don’t decide to be names that they know. If they aren’t great, if not, that’s okay too. But at least they’re real people that you’ve had on the show. Right. And you can link to the show and you can show them. Here’s the content I’m creating. You know, Jeff, you mentioned earlier, you know, sometimes as guests, we sometimes get clips or even appear on shows where we’re like, Oh, Oh, gosh, that was

[00:41:40] Jeff Sieh: That’s right, right,

[00:41:42] Mike Allton: You know, the, the person was talking all over me. the, the, the quality of the show wasn’t very good. you know, they, they went in strange directions with the questions and these are all things that as a podcast host, we want to make sure, we want to make sure that we’ve got these buttoned down, that we’re listening.

[00:41:59] Doing active listening and not just, you know, trying to think about what we can say next. Right. But what is this person actually saying? How can we drill down into that? How we, how can we make them look good? Both technically. Right and audibly we want to make them look fantastic So you have to invest a lot of time in that that way when you do go to show The next person the next person in the next person that you want to be on the show that you want to develop that relationship With you’ve got that content.

[00:42:26] The other nice thing too as a Ancillary benefit again, this goes back to the zero listen strategy is that when you’re sharing To your social channels or the other person’s sharing to their social channels, this kind of content, whether it’s the original podcast or some of the repurposed content, if it looks great, other people will be impressed by that.

[00:42:46] I’m, I look forward to sharing the video snippets to my Instagram reels, to my TikTok, to my Facebook reels, to my YouTube source. These are channels I never used to use, but now I’ve got great short video clips that I can share that. Most of the clips is the other people, right? We talked about that. We established that we’re trying to make them look good, but correlation, I look pretty good, right?

[00:43:11] I brought these people on the show, right? It’s, it’s my show. And, and half the time, it’s just a clip of me going. Nodding, nodding, nodding. I almost want to slap my video team because that’s like every clip that they create. It’s just me nodding, but that’s fine. You know, I can look okay. Nodding, but you know, but if it’s, if it’s Robin Diamond, if it’s Greg Russ from Oracle, if it’s, Lee Oden from TopRank Marketing, you know, saying something smart.

[00:43:36] In a clip, that’s fantastic. I had, one of my favorite interviews was Laura Gassler Otting who wrote the book, Wonder Hell, fantastic book, amazing guest. In fact, that’s how I got Mitch Joel cause they’re best friends. When I shared Laura’s clip to social media, well, I actually shared the whole podcast, I talked about how we mentioned Mitch.

[00:43:59] In the show, because we talked about it. She tells a story about how Mitch got her an appearance on Good Morning America. That’s a pretty good story. Pretty good get for her. And that’s how good a friend Mitch is, right? He can get you on Good Morning America. So we talked about Mitch in the recording and I just happened to mention, by the way, we mentioned Mitch and I always mention anybody that’s mentioned in the show.

[00:44:19] I tag them so they know we’re talking about him in the show. So that’s how he listened to the show. He left a comment on the LinkedIn post. Hey, that was a pretty great interview. And I said, yeah, love to have you on the show next time, Mitch. And he said, yeah, Let’s do it. That’s the kind of thing that can happen if you’re creating great content.

[00:44:35] Jeff Sieh: And giving opportunities for that to respond by, because he might have not seen that if you didn’t at mention him. So, that’s a key part of strategy too, is you want to make sure, you want You mentioned some books, and I want to make sure that for you guys, if you guys go to JeffSieh. live, that’s my Amazon channel, Mike Alton’s books are right there, listed right below, we’re streaming live there as well, and if you want to check out his books, they’re amazing, he’s got, I think the one highlighted is the one about social media marketing that you co wrote with Jen Herman and some other people, Jen was on not very long ago, so JeffSieh.

[00:45:11] live, you can go check that out, but also, if Mike has a special for you guys who are watching, and I want to make sure to do this now and not, you know, smack dab at the end of the show. If you go to thesocialmediahat. com forward slash workbook, that’s thesocialmediahat. com forward slash workbook, he’s got a free thing for you.

[00:45:28] Talk, tell them a little bit about what this is, Mike.

[00:45:30] Mike Allton: Yeah. So this is actually a brand new product. You guys are hearing it here first. This is a complete marketing strategy workbook. So you need a marketing strategy for your business. You’ve never built one before. You don’t know where to begin. This is it. It’s going to take you through setting up your goals, figuring out what your overall strategy should be, how those business goals can align with marketing, business goals.

[00:45:49] I’m Jeff Sieh, and I’m going to be talking to you today about how you can create an email plan, an SEO plan, a content plan, and it’s even going to help you make sure that your team is aligned with all this and give you a structure to have your whole team have, you know, a, Goals, initiatives, we call them big rocks and a meeting structures that you can meet with them one on one or as a team every single week.

[00:46:15] And how are you going to outline all that? So that at the end of every quarter, you can look back and say, these were all the goals that we set up at the end of the quarter and we worked all quarter, and this is what we accomplished. It’s going to keep you and your entire business on track with your marketing.

[00:46:28] It’s 25 bucks, but if you use the coupon freebeard. com, You get it for free today.

[00:46:33] Jeff Sieh: Freebeard, that is great. So, yeah, so his, Mike’s stuff is always top notch, so you need to get this while you have a chance, because his stuff is always amazing, and I’ve learned a lot from him. Over the years, but I want to kind of, we’ll, we’ll put this link up towards the end as well, but I want to make sure when we’re talking about this, you know, zero listen podcast and kind of a flipping podcasting on its head because we, so many indie podcasters are about downloads.

[00:46:59] If somebody is wanting, as a business owner, To start to use a podcast to focus on partnerships, what we’ve been talking about, what’s the, the biggest advice that you would give that business owner when they’re getting ready to start out? Like what, you know, what are some mistakes maybe you’ve made after you’ve done now five podcasts that you wish you would have done at the start?

[00:47:19] Because I know a lot of, you know, you’ve learned a lot from doing this. what would you tell that new, that business who’s wanting to do podcasting in this way for the first time?

[00:47:28] Mike Allton: Well, the first inherent truth here is that a zero listen podcast by definition is we’re not really paying attention to the listens. And that’s something I don’t want to gloss over because as a first time podcaster, you don’t know necessarily how many listens are a good number of listens. But that’s the metric you figured that you should be paying attention to.

[00:47:49] So when you see that a podcast got 25 listens, 30 listens, 50 listens, you’re like, that’s not very many. I suck.

[00:47:57] Jeff Sieh: unless they’re in a room with Brian.

[00:48:00] Mike Allton: Yeah, exactly. Now, and that’s a great example that a lot of people have used, right? Cause like you say, imagine if you were in a room and 50 people were in the room, listening to you give that presentation, you’d be pretty proud of yourself.

[00:48:11] Right. And that’s a hundred percent true. And that’s one of the challenges with podcasts is the consumption rate is so much smaller than other pieces of content. We, we get to see. Eventually statistics from Libsyn and other places that say, well, yeah, if you’ve got over a hundred listeners for your podcast, you’re like in the top 20 percent of podcasts being consumed.

[00:48:30] I didn’t know that the first time I made a podcast, the first time I made a podcast was called Marketing Hyperdrive. And I went like through 11, 12, 15. episodes of that every single week and by the end I was getting 100 150 listens per episode and I thought that sucked. I thought that was awful. I was used to the heyday of, of, blog posts when I might get, you know, 500, 1, 000, 1, 500 visits to a blog post.

[00:48:57] I’m even used to social media, right, where a single tweet or a LinkedIn post would get at least 100 to 200 more likes. Views, a hundred listens of a podcast. That seems like a total waste of time to me. So I quit and I didn’t do podcasts for probably a year or more. Then I launched a new podcast on virtual events and, and these were all personal podcasts for me.

[00:49:19] so there are other reasons for not doing it. Not the least of which is I hate editing my own.

[00:49:23] Jeff Sieh: That’s right, yeah,

[00:49:24] Mike Allton: that, which is why I’m paying you, Jeff, to edit all my podcasts going forward. So that’s the first piece of advice is now we don’t have to pay attention to listens and we don’t to get depressed if they’re not very big, because that’s not the goal.

[00:49:36] The second thing is to think about very specifically, again, the target audience that you want to work with. Now, if it’s for partnerships, specifically brands. Or influencers that you might potentially want to build a relationship with and partner with. This is where it’s an opportunity for you to create that relationship and look at it as a win win.

[00:49:57] And I phrase it that way because having Like in my case, a social media manager come on the show. That’s not necessarily a win win. It’s, it’s really not like that at all, right? I’m not giving them business or anything like that. But if I bring a high level, great example, right? We had a high level on the Martech show this week.

[00:50:18] That’s a partnership. The Martech show is a little different from these other zero list podcasts where the Martech show is designed to be a co marketing, lead generation. Webinar up front. It’s a weekly webinar on Wednesdays. You register for free and you show up, we use a different tool. We stream into a landing page and people attend, you know, 25, 50, 150 people.

[00:50:40] And they watch that episode where we’re talking with one of our strategic partners about the solutions that they solve. So that’s just really not about Agorapulse at all, even though we’re actually, we’re a big part of it, but it’s about the partner that we’re bringing on and the partner it’s. On them to also promote the show they’re required.

[00:51:01] So when you bring a guest on, I mean, you’re like, I’m here. You didn’t require that. I promote this show, right? if I do great, if I add it to some of my other channels and we’re streaming a lot of my other channels, fantastic. But that wasn’t part of the deal. If you’re looking at it from a partnership perspective, that’s part of the deal.

[00:51:19] That should be actually spelled out. Whether you use a full, blown term sheet or, it’s just a understood agreement, either is fine, but they need to be part of that process.

[00:51:31] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point.

[00:51:33] Conor Brown: I love that. So, when it comes to that, Mike, when it comes to creating the podcast itself, how do you ensure that when you’re talking about your goals, about what you want this episode to accomplish, that you’re still balancing good podcast creation, good content creation, while also creating engaging and valuable content?

[00:51:58] Episode that, you know, your partner, your listener, your specific audience is going to be engaging with. Because like you’re saying, you know, if it’s a weekly show, you got to do something every single week. We got this, this schedule. So how do you balance that? How do you balance the consistent content creation while ensuring that it remains engaging and it remains, you know, listenable, I guess you could say, to the audience that you want to hear.

[00:52:25] Mike Allton: So every single guest that I bring on, I had them fill out a guest onboarding form because I want to make sure obviously I have their preferred headshot, their bio, their links, all that sort of thing. But I also ask a couple of key questions in that onboarding form. What’s something that you want to teach?

[00:52:40] Our target audience in 30 minutes or less, or what’s a particular challenge that you faced in your business and how did you solve that? I ask, are there any of the key takeaways or lessons that you want to share with this audience? And there’s different variations and versions of those questions, depending on, on the show and the target audience.

[00:52:59] But the key is I’m asking them up front, what is it that we could potentially talk about? Then I build a document, you know, and Jeff, you know, you and I did this, you know, for this show, we had a brief conversation, you know, over messenger, you know, what are we going to talk about? What are the potential topics?

[00:53:16] We kind of talked that through a little bit, and then you came up with some questions that we could potentially talk through. I did the same thing with my shows and that’s all scripted out. My intro is scripted. The questions are scripted. The segues are scripted. And I’m, I’m honestly reading from that script most of the time.

[00:53:30] So. Now I can, you know, go on tangents and I can improvise, which is fine, but I don’t have to, because a lot of that’s already scripted out. And I also share those questions in advance with the guests, just like you and I did, Jeff, so that A, there’s no surprises. And B, in the B2B space, this is critical because a lot of the people that you may be talking to on your show may have to get approval.

[00:53:52] Jeff Sieh: Oh, that’s a good

[00:53:53] Mike Allton: When I bring in brands like TikTok, like Meta, like Oracle, like, you know, They’ve got legal departments and legal wants to know or their PR department or the communications department wants to know, who are you talking to? How long are you talking to? What are you going to say? And all that has to be, if not exactly decided, at least agreed upon in advance, because they want to make sure that I’m not going to put the guest in a position that they’re going to be asked to, You know, make, make the platform not look good, right?

[00:54:21] Just yesterday afternoon, I was interviewing, you know, someone from TikTok, right? And we couldn’t have talked about the, the struggles that TikTok is having right now with the United States Congress and them wanting to ban, you know, ByteDance from the United States. That’s not something that would have been acceptable in that conversation.

[00:54:40] We didn’t know in advance. We’re going to talk about the platform. We’re going to talk about TikTok shop and all those kinds of things. So That’s really how I do it is I make sure that they’re telling me in advance what they want to talk about. And I’m taking the time to build out a full flow and talking points and questions for the show.

[00:54:58] And for some of the guests that might mean I have to spend a lot of time up front and doing some research. Maybe they don’t give me a lot of information in the, In the questionnaire, or maybe it’s a topic I don’t know a lot about, or maybe it’s a guest I don’t know a lot about. For Laura Gasser Otting, I read the book.

[00:55:15] I read Wonder Hill, right? I took that time. Fortunately, it was, it was scheduled for enough advance. I had time to do that, but that means, you know, the whole show could be about the book and specific parts and segments of the book and the lessons that she was, bring up and for those who aren’t familiar, it’s a fantastic book.

[00:55:32] It’s this idea that we work so hard. To achieve success, whatever that looks like to us. And then after we achieve it, there’s almost inevitably this huge roller coaster, all that kind of like, Oh, well I did that. Now what, what’s, what’s next? I got to achieve something else. And we’re on this roller coaster now of always having to go on to the next thing and the next thing and the next thing.

[00:55:54] Fantastic exploration of this phenomenon, particularly in business. So it’s all about guest preparation. Now, some folks don’t want to document all that and that’s fine. But if you want to achieve the kind of results that we’re talking about achieving with this strategy of podcasting, then you at least have to go into these interviews with a good sense in your mind of, this is what I’m talking about.

[00:56:15] This is who I’m talking about. This is where they’ve struggled. And I want to dig into that. It is totally possible to not do that. Have this documented, because you can have a formula that you go into over and over again. What was it that you were struggling with? Oh, okay. Why was that such a struggle for you?

[00:56:33] How’d that make you feel?

[00:56:34] in.

[00:56:35] How long were you struggling with that?

[00:56:37] have

[00:56:38] What was it that made you decide you needed to solve? That problem, how long did it take you to solve it? What did you actually do? What’d that cost you? And then your question earlier, which is perfect is how did you get management buy in to actually pursue that solution?

[00:56:54] Right? That was what? Eight, nine questions. That’s a whole podcast right there. And you could probably ask those exact same questions for every single guest. If that’s the kind of interview format that you want for your show, right? Where you’re just talking through the problems that they’ve gone through.

[00:57:09] Jeff Sieh: So that’s what I was going to ask you is that, the, the question, I guess like John Lee Dumas asked the same questions of every guest every time. Personally, I want a little bit more mix up with that, but you could do that. And, but it’s, there’s a big debate and I’ve had it and I, I, we’ve had people on our show, like they, they, they never give their guests questions.

[00:57:26] Because they want it to be on the fly and raw and stuff. And like, I get that for an indie podcast kind of thing. I have always done it one, because like you said, I don’t want to surprise the guests. I want to have a show flow in my mind. Now, Connor knows we go way off track lots of times. If the conversation is, or something interesting that I think of, or Connor thinks of that we do, but it also, because we’ve had people like before the show and the pre show will go.

[00:57:49] You know, questions were great, but I don’t really want to talk about this because I don’t know enough or it’s changed. And so that’s great because the last thing you want to do, especially with the zero listen podcast strategy is make your guests look foolish or not, or make them feel uncomfortable because they didn’t know the answer to a question.

[00:58:07] So I think that is. Spot on. man, once again, free consulting for me. it’s gone over, but Mike, thank you so much for your time. Once again, I want to, you know, make sure you guys go check out all Mike’s books over at jeffsieh. live. It’s my Amazon channel. It’s right there at the top, but he’s also given.

[00:58:26] access to his, his a workbook on social media, which his stuff is so good. He’s such a good writer. There Never, there never will be an AI Mike Alden, there just never will be. but if you go to the social media, that’s thus social media And what was the code Free beard?

[00:58:45] Is that what it was?

[00:58:46] Mike Allton: Free beard.

[00:58:47] Jeff Sieh: Okay. To get it, for a limited time, make sure you guys go check that out. Mike, what else is going on with you other than all these podcasts that you’re doing, and writing all the time? This guy doesn’t sleep. We used to joke, back in the day that he would use one hand to write two articles at the same time.

[00:59:02] You know, he’s just all over. He would write some the blogging brute is what I used to call him. So,

[00:59:06] Mike Allton: I’m actually blogging while we’re talking

[00:59:08] Jeff Sieh: That’s probably true, yeah, he probably is. He probably is. What else you got going on?

[00:59:13] Mike Allton: Well, we’ve got a big quarterly summit, coming up. That’s next week, March 14th, the Social Pulse Summit Retail Edition. So again, we’re talking to retailers and social media managers for retail brands. That’s a big part of our ICP this quarter for Agorapulse. so that summit’s all about them, but I would encourage you, if you’re a social media manager, to Check out that agenda because you’re probably going to find some things in there that apply to you regardless of retail.

[00:59:36] But we’re kicking off with the keynote from Carol Speakerman, who is a giant in the retail industry. We’ve got specific sessions from some of the top marketers for specific platforms. Like you mentioned, Jen Herman. She’s doing a session for me on Instagram. Wave Wild is there about TikTok. Then we’ve got big brands.

[00:59:52] TikTok is there, in a couple places. I’m leading some conversations and some panels. So that’s all happening next week and go to gorepulse. com to find that and yeah, we’re launching Social Pulse Podcast Retail Edition, Social Pulse Podcast Agency Edition, and Social Pulse Podcast Hospitality Edition in the next few months.

[01:00:12] So if you can resonate with any of those sectors, you can watch out for those shows coming soon.

[01:00:17] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I’m looking forward to listening to those, because I always learn stuff. Even, it’s always good to go even outside and, and kind of push yourself. Maybe something like, well, I’m not in retail, but you can take some strategies from there and apply them to your own business. So, it’s always great to kind of expand your horizons a little bit, listening to some different types of podcasts.

[01:00:35] Connor Brown. The unsinkable Connor Brown. What’s going on with you? What is happening in your world? What you got going on.

[01:00:42] Conor Brown: all my stuff, Jeff, you already gave me a fantastic plug, but you can go over to WDWopinion. com or follow me across social medias at WDW Opinion, talking theme parks, vacations, all that fun stuff.

[01:00:54] Jeff Sieh: And with that, we thank you. Thanks Mike for doing this again. I always enjoy having you on the show. Make sure you guys go check out his podcast, all this stuff. He’s going on his blog at the social media hat, get that workbook. And with that, we’ll see you guys next week. Thank you so much for watching everybody.

[01:01:07] We’ll see you next time. Bye everybody.

Cultivating Community with Mark Schaefer

🔔 We’re excited to talk with Mark Schaefer, discussing “Cultivating Community” and diving into his latest book, “Belonging to the Brand. (affiliate)”

In this episode, we’ll explore the essence of building community around your brand. From the foundational concepts in Belonging to the Brand to practical advice on fostering genuine connections, Mark will share his expert insights on creating communities that truly resonate with your audience.

Whether you’re a marketer, social media manager, or a business owner looking to deepen your brand’s impact, you won’t want to miss this conversation. Get ready to learn how to weave community-building into the fabric of your marketing strategy. 🚀


Building Brand Communities: Expert Insights with Mark Schaefer

Hey there, folks! It’s Jeff Sieh, coming at you with some fresh insights that are too good to keep to myself. You know, in the dizzying world of likes, shares, and fleeting online interactions, there’s one thing that’s become clear as a bell: if your brand isn’t fostering a community, you’re missing out. So, If you’ve ever wondered about the real secret sauce behind brands that not only survive but thrive in the digital age, let me share some golden nuggets from a conversation we had with marketing expert and author Mark Schaefer that’ll shine a light on why community is the game-changer we’ve all been looking for.

Why Community Isn’t Just a Buzzword

During our chat, Mark Schaefer explained why a brand community is not just nice to have in today’s hyper-connected world; it’s essential. Unlike traditional marketing methods that broadcast to an audience, community building focuses on creating a shared space where genuine connections flourish.

The Moment It All Clicked: Discovering the Heart of Community Building

For Mark, the journey into the depths of community building was an evolution of thought sparked by the shifting sands of marketing dynamics. Amidst the backdrop of his pivotal work, Marketing Rebellion, and the unforeseen accelerant of the pandemic, Schaefer observed a hunger for true connection—a longing for belonging that transcended traditional marketing paradigms. This led Mark to pen his latest book, ‘Belonging to the Brand.’ Here, he gets into the nitty-gritty of creating communities where folks do more than just follow a brand—they’re part of something bigger, connected by shared passions and values.

Audience Schmaudience: It’s All About Community

Mark hit the nail on the head with a crucial distinction that too many overlook: having an audience is not the same as having a community. While an audience might listen, a community engages, interacts, and supports not just the brand but each other. Think of it this way: an audience is like having fans in the stands, while a community is having friends on the field, playing the game with you. It’s those deep connections, where folks not only rally around your brand but also support each other, that turn customers into die-hard fans. This level of engagement creates an emotional bond that transcends typical customer-brand relationships.

Crafting Connections That Count

How do brands like Sephora cultivate communities that drive engagement and sales? It boils down to creating meaningful, value-driven experiences for members. It’s not just about getting folks to sign up; it’s about weaving value into every interaction. Sephora champions meaningful engagement, setting the stage for a space where its community can exchange ideas, experiences, and grow together.

Key Takeaway: Engagement in this context isn’t about likes or comments; it’s about fostering a space where members find genuine value and belonging.

Avoiding Common Community Building Pitfalls

Let’s face it: creating a vibrant community is no walk in the park. There are pitfalls along the way, like turning your community into a glorified sales pitch (yikes!) or losing sight of its core purpose. A successful community centers on shared values and interests, not transactions. Mark’s wisdom reminds us that it requires commitment from every part of the organization and a clear understanding of the “why” in order to thrive.

Peering Into the Crystal Ball: The Future of Communities

As we look to the horizon, Mark underscores the growing significance of communities in navigating the murky waters of misinformation and digital skepticism. In a world where truth can be elusive, communities can offer a beacon of authenticity and trust, enabling brands to maintain relevance and deepen their connection with consumers.

Wrapping Up: Don’t Just Stand There, Belong!

Wrapping up our insightful session with Mark Schaefer, it’s evident that building a community is both an art and a science. For brands willing to roll up their sleeves, the reward is a dedicated space where members not only show up but actively participate and belong. Embracing community building is a journey well worth embarking on, filled with learning, growth, and unparalleled connections.


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not.

[00:00:05] Ian Anderson Gray: And I’m Ian Anderson Gray and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:13] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever wondered what it really takes to create a community that not only embraces your brand but actively champions it? Are you curious about the strategies behind building such a devoted following, and maybe you’re aiming to elevate your brand to something that resonates deeply with your audience.

[00:00:29] If you’re at all interested in community, then today’s episode is something you will not want to miss. We’re excited to host Mark Schaefer, a leading figure in the world of marketing, community building, and the author of Belonging to the Brand. Mark’s going to share his insights and advice on how to genuinely connect with your audience and build a community that’s engaged, loyal, and thriving.

[00:00:50] So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Mark, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:00:59] Mark Schaefer: I couldn’t be better. I, I always love being on your show. So I’ve had a circle around this one and it’s so great to catch up with, with Ian as well. Ian’s been, gosh, I mean, he’s been my friend for probably 10 years. His family has actually been to my house. That’s how good of a friend Ian is.

[00:01:17] Jeff Sieh: that is really cool. And I know, I mean, you had the book that you put out that had a lot of your marketing friends, and I know Ian was in that as well, because Ian gave me a copy of that, actually, when we were last together. So, very, very cool. But if you guys, for some reason, don’t know who Mark Schaefer is, let me introduce him.

[00:01:31] He is a globally recognized author, speaker, futurist, and business consultant. He is a prolific writer and speaker whose work sits at the intersection of marketing, technology, and humanity. He has advanced degrees in marketing and organizational development, holds seven patents, and is a faculty member of the graduate studies program at Rutgers University.

[00:01:52] He is the best best selling author of 10 popular books, including the very first book on influence marketing. His blog Grow and the podcast The Marketing Companion are ranked among the top rated publications in the marketing field. Its clients range from successful startups to global brands like Adidas, Johnson Johnson, Dell, the U.

[00:02:11] S. Air Force, and the U. K. government, and he has appeared on media channels such as CNN, The Wall Street Journal. The New York Times and CBS News. I also want to say, Mark is an incredible keynote speaker. And when I say keynote, I don’t mean that he uses keynote to make his slides like some other speakers title themselves.

[00:02:27] He actually is a really, really good keynote speaker. If you ever have a chance to see Mark speak on stage, it is amazing. It’s always wonderful. It’s always different. So, Mark, thank you once again for being on the show.

[00:02:40] Mark Schaefer: thanks for the kind words, especially about the speaking. I mean, it’s something I really, I’m very proud of. I take it seriously and, and try to do a good job.

[00:02:49] Jeff Sieh: it’s always great. I mean, that, I mean, I, Ian and I both speak and we also, we’ve seen you speak before and we’re somebody, we always kind of look up to other speakers and you just, wow, it’s really, really good. It’s funny. It’s, it’s always entertaining, but it’s also very, very, what, what you need to hear on that day, whatever’s happening in marketing.

[00:03:07] So it’s just, it’s amazing. So.

[00:03:08] Mark Schaefer: Thank you.

[00:03:09] Ian Anderson Gray: I just wanna say I’m a, an international PowerPoint speaker.

[00:03:14] Jeff Sieh: Is it on the wrong side on the road? I mean, how does that work over the UK? Is it different? I don’t know. Is it flipped? I don’t know. but I want to also say something else that’s amazing is our friends over at Ecamm who help sponsor the show. You can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff.

[00:03:28] Use code Jeff15 to save 15 percent off your first purchase. They are what makes this show happen and allow me to have amazing guests like Mark Schaefer. on the show. So without further ado, let’s jump into this. We’re going to be starting with kind of community foundations. you know, Mark, in your, in your book, Belonging to the Brand, you kind of really, really focus on community as a core strategy and you’ve described brand communities as the most overlooked opportunity out there.

[00:03:58] So what made you have that pivotal moment that solidified this belief for you, especially as, you know, marketing changes so much.

[00:04:06] Ian Anderson Gray: evening.

[00:04:12] Mark Schaefer: another book I wrote in, in 2019 called, Marketing Rebellion. And that’s the

[00:04:22] Ian Anderson Gray: us,

[00:04:24] Mark Schaefer: over my head, I’m backwards.

[00:04:28] Ian Anderson Gray: hope to

[00:04:32] Mark Schaefer: and community. And I predicted that this was going to be a big part of marketing in the future.

[00:04:39] Marketing Rebellion was kind of a wake up call saying, look, a lot of the things we do in the traditional marketing world, a lot of our traditional advertising and the way that we, we work with customers, it just doesn’t work anymore. And we need some new ideas. All right, so this book came out in 2019 and then boom, here we are in 2020, pandemic.

[00:05:00] And a lot of people started connecting with me saying, Mark, the ideas that you had in that book are coming true. everything is, is happening faster than you predicted because it’s being accelerated by the pandemic. And I realized that that chapter. on belonging was the most important chapter in the book.

[00:05:25] And it really needed to be its own book. so that was really the, the first thing that happened. And then, you know, then I saw a headline in the New York Times that said, The loneliest generation, and they’re talking about our children and our teenagers and how we have record levels of isolation and, and loneliness and depression.

[00:05:54] And this was not created by the pandemic, but it was accelerated by the pandemic. And I should also emphasize, it’s not just young people, just almost every generation is more and more isolated. And I thought I started to think about You know, the psychological need of belonging, the sociological implications of, of, of loneliness and how that can sort of be addressed in communities and why not brand communities.

[00:06:21] So, it, it, it just launched a, a, a big idea. I just think this is the time, this is the moment, and, and I, I think, I, I think I, I hit it right. the day. I finished the manuscript for the book, McKinsey came out with a major research report that said community is the next big thing in marketing. And, and, and in the year since the book’s come out, I, I really think that that is true.

[00:06:51] I, I, there’s just tremendous momentum, tremendous amount of money being spent in this space.

[00:07:00] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So I think we’ve, you know, if you’ve been in marketing for any amount of time, we’ve all kind of seen, you know, that gravitate that way in your book, once again, hit it right on the head. Ian, were you going to say something?

[00:07:11] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, no, I, I totally agree with you about the, the whole, we’ve got this loneliness epidemic, and it’s, it’s gonna be interesting to see how brands. Utilize how they respond to this. And one thing that I know that Mark, that you’ve talked about a lot in the past is that brands, when they are making these online interactions, they lack depth.

[00:07:32] How would, how do you recommend that brands create genuinely meaningful connections online, moving beyond these empty social calories to foster real community?

[00:07:43] Mark Schaefer: Well, that’s a great question, and it’s something that I’ve been thinking a lot about, and writing a lot about, so one of the things I think we need to, like, establish right up front is that a lot of people can, confuse audience with community, so a lot of people say, I’ve got a TikTok community, I’ve got an Instagram community.

[00:08:08] No, you really don’t. It’s, it’s, it’s an audience. So, I mean, if you go away, the audience goes away. In a community, people know each other. So, there’s a depth of emotion. There’s a depth of connection that is above and beyond an audience. An audience, generally on TikTok, Or, you know, you know, Instagrams or YouTube.

[00:08:33] It’s a parasocial relationship, right? If you love Mr. Beast, you just think he’s like part of the family, right? But you don’t know any, most other people who are connecting with Mr. Beast because it’s an audience and the research shows. When people in a community connect in a meaningful way, that goodwill, that emotion transfers to the brand.

[00:08:58] Which is why I say that a true community, that is the highest emotional attachment you can have. And what are we trying to do in brand marketing? Create an emotional connection between what we do and our audience. So, the first idea is a lot of brands say, Well, I’m doing influencer marketing. And, so that’s community marketing, but it’s, it’s really not, and I’m not saying don’t do influencer marketing, by the way.

[00:09:29] I mean, I’m a, a, as you said, Jeff, I wrote the first book on influence marketing. I’ve been following it since the beginning. I’m a big fan. I think it’s just starting. I think it’s essential. but it’s, it’s, it deserves a completely different approach than Community marketing. So influence marketing is great for awareness, but it doesn’t really build an emotional attachment because the emotional attachment is to the influencer, not necessarily to you.

[00:09:58] Now, let’s talk about in a community. a brand, you’ve got three options. You can build your own, you can borrow an existing community, or you can partner. So, you know, building a community, there are many, many brands with incredible communities. one of the most impressive ones is Sephora, and that’s a familiar brand.

[00:10:24] Because they’ve got stores in almost, you know, brick and mortar stores in almost every city in the world. yet 80% of their revenue comes from their online community, which surprises a lot of people. ’cause they have so many stores. They have 6 million people in their community. and, I estimate they’re spending about a billion dollars a year, on their community.

[00:10:48] So, and, and the, the CMO of Sephora says the number one measurement they have is engagement because they know to be successful in a community, they have to be relevant. And if people are engaging, that shows. They’re being, they’re being relevant and people will continue to come back. And if they continue to come back, then they’re going to buy stuff.

[00:11:13] You know, I’m not in so on, on the social media side, I’m not a real, a huge fan of engagement as a metric. But in the community space, definitely. Number two would be Borrow. So almost every brand out there has, has a fan club. There are people out there talking about how they use a certain product and how they love a certain product.

[00:11:39] And so often, the work is already done. The community is, is, is already established and a brand could come in and maybe be helpful and create some, I mean, there’s a bunch of great resources that are out there. Start some new content, maybe some activities, create some contests, have some giveaways, and just be a friendly member of the community.

[00:12:01] And then the third type is to partner. And so, let’s say,

[00:12:07] Ian Anderson Gray: for joining us.

[00:12:08] Mark Schaefer: I think something like 90%. of the largest Facebook groups are, are mom related. It’s, it’s, it’s mom, mom issues, mom entrepreneurs, family issues. And so these, I mean, this is an amazing target audience for a lot of brands. Who are trying to connect with, with moms or the people who control the household budget.

[00:12:40] and so you could go into the community and say, Ha, look, we want to be part of this. And I have to emphasize, it’s not really a brand being part of the community. It’s a person being part of a community.

[00:12:52] Jeff Sieh: Right, right,

[00:12:53] Mark Schaefer: Right? I mean, you’ve got to be a real person. And that’s a, a, an entirely different way. To think for many companies, because most companies, they want, you know, they’re thinking, ah, we’re going to get our advertising agency to do this.

[00:13:06] You know, no, that’s not how it works. You know, a community, it’s, you’re really building a connection. You’re building trust. You’re being, you want to be part of it. You want to be helpful. You want to be respected. And that’s how you can build these, these bigger, this emotional tie to communities.

[00:13:26] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So one of the questions that has come up in the comments is, you know, how do brands, and you mentioned those three, build robust communities. I know a lot of times we think of brands and we think of, oh, Coca Cola or Sephora, you know, big, big brands. but, and, and I’m not just saying this because they are a sponsor of the show, but Ecamm has a great community.

[00:13:46] Like, it’s, it blows my mind that inside this, in this Facebook group, like Michael Hyatt will come in there and ask tech questions. Like, you know, and they are so good at that. Ian’s in there as well. so how do, your Rise community is another great example of that. So how do, you know, Ian, you, you have the question before that we talked about in the green room is like, how do we know when to start a community?

[00:14:09] So you want to kind of go on that a little bit, Ian, and talk about, you know, your question about starting.

[00:14:16] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. So, I mean, you, Mark, you were talking about brands then it sounded to me like you were talking more, maybe more of the bigger brands and maybe I’m completely wrong, but how, how about smaller brands? How about, creators like me and Jeff? Like, when do we know when to start a. Start a community because you’re right about making that distinction between an audience.

[00:14:39] You know, we might have an audience, but do we need to have like a particular size of audience? Can you maybe go through some of your thoughts on, on that, about the type of brand, the type of business that can have a community?

[00:14:51] Mark Schaefer: well, sure. And as a matter of fact, 80 percent of startups today lead with community as their number one marketing strategy. So it’s, it’s, I would actually say, Ian, that community is a better strategy for small to medium sized businesses than large businesses that have to scale by tens and hundreds of millions of dollars.

[00:15:21] Furthermore Of those startups that lead with brand community, one third say this is the most critical factor in our success. The community, you know, there, there’s, there’s, if you look at, there’s a lot of disruptor brands out there in, in consumer products. there’s a new health drink, called Gorgie is G O R G I E, right?

[00:15:52] Brand, brand new startup. When you go to their homepage, it says, Join the community that’s building this brand. The first thing they ask you to do is join the community.

[00:16:04] Ian Anderson Gray: us

[00:16:05] Mark Schaefer: not

[00:16:07] Ian Anderson Gray: and

[00:16:09] Mark Schaefer: is a community of people that are testing, they’re giving feedback, they’re encouraging, they might be helping with funding, they might be helping with promotion and advocacy. So, they’re building their fans. Right off the bat. And so I think, small to medium sized businesses definitely have an advantage. Now, your question about how do you know if it’s, if it’s right for you, you know, this is a really good question. I’ve thought a lot about because, you know, people might say, you know, I mean, is it right for everybody?

[00:16:50] And, and I, you know, I, I’m not a hundred percent sure of that answer.

[00:16:55] Ian Anderson Gray: joining

[00:17:01] Mark Schaefer: I mean, six or seven years ago, I started seeing people wearing Yeti T shirts and Yeti hats. And I was thinking, isn’t that a, an ice cooler? Why are they, why are they, you know, it’s like, that’s just the dumbest thing. And for now, it’s a, it’s a, you know, a massive, massive brand. If you go into an America, if you go into a sporting goods store, there’s a whole aisle of Yeti products and yet. This is a brand completely built on community. In fact, they have 15 different communities. And let’s just dive down on this a little bit because it’s a, it’s a great lesson.

[00:17:45] So I’m trying to think like one of their communities is helping. Disadvantaged people, like disabled people, get outdoors. Another community is about mapping unmapped hiking trails. Now, think about this. Getting disadvantaged or disabled people outdoors. Is that good for the brand? Yes. Is it good for their customers?

[00:18:17] Yes. Unmapping, you know, mapping unmapped trails. It’s getting more people outdoors. Is that good for the brand? Yes. They’re going to take Yeti along. Is it good for their customers? Yes. That’s when you know. You have the potential for a great community. When there’s an intersection in purpose, the purpose of the brand intersects with the purpose of their customers in a powerful way.

[00:18:46] How, how can you have a bigger impact on the world if your customers come alongside you? How can your customers grow, learn, create something new, change the world? If. They come into your community. And it’s not about selling more stuff. Hopefully, I mean, you’ve got to sell more stuff eventually, or you’re not going to exist.

[00:19:13] So let’s not ignore that. No one is going to, buying stuff is not a reason to come, to show up in your community every day or every week. There’s got to be an intersection. of, of purpose. And I think that’s one of the big decisions that you, that you need to make as a, as a, as a creator or as a brand. you know, it is, do you have that obvious intersection of purpose?

[00:19:41] Jeff Sieh: So, you know, you mentioned in your book and just a minute ago talking about the stickers and putting on things. So, and is your brand sticker worthy? I think is what you said. In the book? Or, or is your community sticker worthy? And I, and I go back to, I think EAM, their, their community. I mean, they have, they have merch and that just, it still blows my mind that a, a streaming company, that it’s a piece of software has merch that, you know, that people buy and love and rally around.

[00:20:05] I think it started with like customer service that we’re using a dead channel for customer service. But then it morphed into something more like these people rallied around this brand. So how, how, how can you, For people who are trying and thinking about communities, how can you like transform that passive social media, you know, followers into engaged community members?

[00:20:27] Because I’ve seen a lot of people say, I’m going to do a Facebook group, and they do a Facebook group, and it’s just dead on arrival. Like it, nothing happens. Because they say, we’re going to have a community. And then, nobody, none of those followers get transformed in the community. So, what are some of those steps that you need to effectively transform those social media followers to a real community?

[00:20:45] Ian Anderson Gray: look

[00:20:47] Mark Schaefer: question. So,

[00:20:49] Ian Anderson Gray: to seeing

[00:20:52] Mark Schaefer: every community starts with, you know, five or six passionate people. Arguably, the biggest community in the world is Twitch, right? And, and even Twitch started with like six people who said, yeah, we really do want to. Watch other people, you know, play video games.

[00:21:14] What? That can’t be a thing. Yeah, it really is a thing. And it became, you know, this, this massive, massive thing. so if you’ve got five or six people that just are passionate, they want to make something happen. Just as few as that many people can, can get it going. Now, when you start a community, You’re going to have to prime the pump, right?

[00:21:37] You’ve, you’re going to have to create content, create discussions, create activities, maybe combine an online community with an offline event to kind of get things going. But as the passion grows and the enthusiasm, excuse me, for the community grows, then those initial people start bringing in others. Say, hey, we’re doing something great here.

[00:22:09] you know, come on. And as the community starts to grow, then others start filling the gaps and start bringing in their own content. So my own community which is dedicated to learning about the future of marketing is about two and a half years old. So, in the beginning, you know, I had to take on a lot of the responsibility, but now almost everything happening in the community is being led by others.

[00:22:36] We have a monthly discussion on AI. We have, you know, parties and meetings in the metaverse. we have, live events. we, we have book discussions and all of these things are being organized by other people in the community, being led by other people in the community. So part of my role in, in my community and any community leader, there’s a role of Of rewarding status, right?

[00:23:07] Paying attention as the leaders emerge and give them status, give them responsibility. And, you know, because of their passion in the community, they’re happy to do it. And the community becomes greater and bigger and more diverse and, it’s, it’s kind of goes against a lot of the management principles we learned in college.

[00:23:32] but, you know, you just trust other people to help you lead and you kind of give them the, the borders of we kind of, you know, we, it’s got to be a nice place. It’s got to be a safe place. We’re kind of going to be in this topic area. As long as you follow those rules, let’s just go for it.

[00:23:50] Jeff Sieh: So, I want to follow up real quick, Ian, before I get to your question, because I have some that are just, eh. So, I’m a big fan of, you know, and you know him too, Mark, is Lou Mangiello, who does WGW Radio. He’s been doing it for years, like, since podcasting existed, he did it. So he has a community, and it first started with, they were rallying around Disney, right?

[00:24:08] They were Disney fans, they’d come together, and he had his community they came and played with. Well Yes, they still love Disney, but now they love Lou. And so it’s this, it’s been this switch. Now, he still has Disney fans. You could almost say that’s kind of the top of the funnel, but then they, but they come to his community and his events and, and pay for his mastermind and all that stuff because they love Lou.

[00:24:29] So

[00:24:29] Mark Schaefer: Perfect example, perfect example of what this suggests, Jeff, is that the marketing strategy within a community, it’s more important to encourage the relationships, friendships, and connections in a community. So you mentioned at the top of the show that my community had written a book. Ian wrote a chapter in this book.

[00:24:56] We had 36 authors for this book. And I mean, There was this incredible emotion that went into this book. You know, people were terrified and they were worried. They had anxiety and then they had relief and joy and celebration and we had a live book launch party at my house. And so this created this amazing emotional bond between the writers and the editors and, and, and, and so that relationship, that friendship that spills over to the person or spills over to the brand.

[00:25:33] So they might have come in, like, as you’re saying for Lou, they might have come because they’re interested in Disney, but then the, the, the relationships they build in the community overflow to the person or the brand. that’s why I, you know, that’s why this is the, the, the highest level of emotional commitment and loyalty you can attain.

[00:25:57] It’s, it’s, it’s in a, it’s in a community and think about this. The people in that community, they’re not going to go to another Disney community. The people that are, that are the leaders in the Sephora community, they’re not going to go to another place. They literally belong to the brand, right? They literally belong to the brand, which would make a great title for a book.

[00:26:22] Jeff Sieh: it was, and by the way, you can get all, if you’re watching on Amazon, all of Mark’s books are there, but I have highlighted his, belonging to the brand. And by the way, this is really interesting. I don’t know if you know this, Mark, if you are part of Kindle Unlimited right now, which is their. You know, a subscription to see you have your books on there for free right now.

[00:26:36] If you’re part of their plan that you can go and check out and read. So kind of cool. go ahead, Ian. I’m sorry. I cut you off again.

[00:26:45] Ian Anderson Gray: It’s disgraceful. I’ll forgive you though. Yeah. So I, I think that is so true. And being in, in, in your community, the Rise community, you know, the fact that you entrust the people in the community, this, this, I don’t know how you felt about this, but like the fact that you entrusted. 36 authors to be involved in your book, you know, and to, I was really kind of initially touched to be involved and then terrified.

[00:27:14] And then it was that process of, and the fact that you kind of walked us through was amazing. Also being involved with the Metaverse event as well. That was just such an amazing. And, and it’s like, you believe in the people in your community. And this is, this isn’t, I think, a big issue for some brands, you know, how, how does that, how do brands move from, shift from controlling the message to embodying, you could call it servant leadership.

[00:27:46] Influence, you know, servant leadership. How, how does brands move from that towards, building and, and growing the community and building that engagement and that trust, with the people in, in the community?

[00:28:01] Mark Schaefer: Yeah. I mean, this is a wonderful, wonderful question, Ian. so I was, working with, a, a big agency recently, and, and they’re trying to learn about community. And of course, they’re advertising agencies. They’re all about, you know, controlling the message. And this is what our brand is about. And I was talking about, The, the magic of a community is when people are so excited you’re doing something so interesting, so unmissable in the community, like, you know, writing a book that that energy goes outside the community.

[00:28:41] And people are saying, look at what we’re doing. Look at this picture of us on the metaverse. Look at this book that we wrote together. Look at what we’re, this, what we’re doing now. And then. People say, Oh my gosh, I feel like I’m missing something out. I want to be part of that brand journey too. And so the, the, the power is really the user generated content that can come out of a community.

[00:29:04] And the brand said, well, how do you control that?

[00:29:07] Jeff Sieh: Hehe. Mm

[00:29:08] Mark Schaefer: He said, how, how do we control, you know, how do you control the message? I said, well, you don’t. I mean, you don’t, but think about this. Think about influencer marketing versus community led marketing. If influencer marketing, you know, you could build a relationship with an influencer and give them some creative license and then you You know, the, the creator’s going to do something about your brand and hopefully that other people will then create content about the brand.

[00:29:43] Maybe it’ll be part of a contest or something. And you have no control of anything that’s going on. Now, if you’re in a community. That’s a little different. It’s not like the Wild West. You’ve got a leader of the community that sets expectations. You’ve got a culture in the community. You have norms in the community, and you have a little bit more, let’s say, I mean, not necessarily control, but expectations of how people treat each other and, and what people are going to communicate.

[00:30:20] And I wouldn’t use the word control, but there’s certainly a lot of, you know, important influence on people’s lives. About how a brand might be represented with communications coming out of a, of a community. For example, you might say, look, we’ve got this brand. They’re partnering with our community about, you know, a cleaning product and we’re going to have this contest.

[00:30:44] And if you use this specific hashtag and do this specific kind of video, you’ll be entered in this contest to win whatever. That’s very specific and it’s not, you know, demanding what you’re going to say, you’re giving creative license to the people in the community, but yet there’s, there’s more control than you would ever have, just using, you know, influencers.

[00:31:12] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so I want to bring up this, this, this point from Kira. She goes, I think brands really need to help community members see and feel that they are, are contributing to the brand, not just consuming from it. Brand doesn’t just happen in a boardroom anymore. It is a collaborative effort with your audience.

[00:31:29] And on that note, you know, one of the things I loved about, belonging to

[00:31:33] Mark Schaefer: I just want to compliment her on, on the wisdom of her, of her, comment there. She’s absolutely right. So I just want, I didn’t want to go on without saying that that was a really very, a lot of wisdom there. Thank you.

[00:31:46] Jeff Sieh: Kira is really smart. She, she stops by our show quite a bit and she always drops really great stuff in. So, yeah, thank you for that Kira. but one of the things that you mentioned in belonging to the brand that I thought was really refreshing is, is you mentioned, some of your failures, right?

[00:32:01] Like you have, you had tried. Yeah, you did. You did. You did. So, one of the things she said was like, you know, you tried brands before you had the success of the Rise community. So, what are some of the most common pitfalls in community building and like, what are some lessons that you learned that you can share with us that we can avoid or maybe overcome?

[00:32:24] Mark Schaefer: Well, that’s, that’s, it’s pretty straightforward. I mean, I mean, number one is that any community that is created to sell more stuff is, is going to fail. Right? So, I mean, you know, I, I’m guessing the success of the Ecamm community is because it’s, it’s just helpful. And the purpose of what you’re doing is, in Ecamm is you want to help people.

[00:32:52] Live streaming to succeed. Their customers want live streaming to succeed. Does it make sense to have a community where we help each other, with live, make live streaming succeed? Yes. Right? So that’s the purpose. And if the community is successful, you’re going to sell more stuff because people are going to love you.

[00:33:11] They’re going to be loyal to you. And, and, and, and, you know, they’re going to do more live streaming because they’re learning how to be successful, with you. So if you create a community. You know, and, and the sales department is pressuring you saying, you know, what’s the ROI of this community and when are we going to start seeing more leads, you know, that, that’s a, that’s not going to work as a, as a method to start a community.

[00:33:36] You know, another one is, that’s the number one by far reason why, why communities fail, about 70%. Brand communities fail. And that’s the main reason.

[00:33:49] Ian Anderson Gray: Thank you

[00:33:50] Mark Schaefer: Number two would be, you know, it’s maybe it’s just like an experiment or a pilot, but they’re not really clear on the purpose. They’re not really clear on, you know, what, what, what do we really share with our customers?

[00:34:06] You know, let’s just put it out there and see if, if, if something sticks. And then I think the third reason that communities fail is because Of the company culture. This isn’t just a marketing idea. This has to be supported up and down the company because it can touch a lot of different areas of the company.

[00:34:26] And it’s very different than what we might think of as a marketing campaign where, you know, you, you get the money approved and you get the creative approved, and then you’ll launch the thing. And a couple of months later, it’s over. A community is. You know, the idea is it’s forever that, that you are, you’re, you’re, you’re creating a social contract with the people in this community that if you’re committing your time and, and your emotion to this community, we’re not going to let you down.

[00:35:02] We’re just, we’re going to make it even better. And, so that’s a major, major difference in, in marketing mindset that can cause problems in a community if you don’t have that. That long term commitment,

[00:35:18] Jeff Sieh: So one of the things, you mentioned not, you know, the selling that, that leads to failure if people try to sell too hard when they first start a community. One of the things you said in your book that I thought was really interesting. You said, a brand community, however, does not necessarily have to stay entirely on brand, which is probably the weirdest sentence I have ever written.

[00:35:36] So, Can you say, can you talk about that a little bit, but about that you don’t have to stay on brand. and I think cause that

[00:35:45] Mark Schaefer: not only do you, not only do you, you may not stay on brand. You don’t want to stay on brand and here’s why, because this is the major benefit of the community. Now you need to stay, you know, if you have a brand of cleaning products, you know, you don’t want to start getting into conversations about, you know, robotics, baby, right? Let me tell you about my experience in my community. So when I started my community, you know, I could create little chat rooms. And I thought, well, people are coming into my community, they’re probably going to be interested in what I’m interested in, so I’ll create a little community about personal branding and about speaking and about writing.

[00:36:35] And today, those little chat rooms might be on brand for me, Those are the emptiest rooms in the whole place, because the community came in and said, Look, if we’re going to stay relevant in our careers, if we’re going to learn about the future of marketing. We, we, we need to learn about AI. We need to learn about Web3.

[00:37:02] We need to learn about new advertising platforms. And so they’re taking me to the future. I do not write a blog post. I do not give a speech. I do not write a book that doesn’t have ideas from the community in there. It’s making me more relevant. Here’s a fun fact. We had to make a decision. Where are we going to host the community?

[00:37:29] Should we do a Slack channel? Should it be Facebook? And, and Ian wrote me a comment. He said, Mark, if we’re gonna learn about the future of marketing, why wouldn’t we be on Discord and learn that too? I said, that’s a pretty good argument. So the community took me into Discord, you know, kicking and screaming the whole way. But he was right, and it was a good decision. Now, think about scaling this, Jeff. Think about a brand. If you have, you know, fans who love you from, you know, all over the country or all over the world, and they’re saying, have you thought about this? Have you thought about this? Did you see what your competitor is doing in Germany? It’s like, it’s, it’s a constant dialogue to keep you relevant. Your brand is a relentless journey of relevance. What, what is relevant today, it’s not going to be relevant a year from now, maybe not even a month from now. And, and having this community, it, it, it, you, it takes you on the journey and you have to let them have the space, you know, to, to, to do that.

[00:38:44] Jeff Sieh: those are great points. Yeah. And by the way, Ecamm is on discord too, which is kind of funny that you mentioned that you both are on there. Yeah.

[00:38:51] Ian Anderson Gray: It is kind of funny because at the time I really did not like discord and I thought, but I, I thought like this is the perfect place to learn together. Like, let’s move from like not enjoying it, not understanding it to understanding it. And I think, I don’t know what you think Mark, but I think we’ve definitely got there with, with that, which is cool.

[00:39:09] And I was going to ask you, so like, we’re even more, I think, as human beings distracted than ever. what, What innovative strategies can brands employ to ensure that their community efforts are, you know, stand out in this, in this world of distractions? There’s so many things. I mean, we can talk about TikTok and, and all that kind of stuff.

[00:39:32] How, how, how do we, how do we ensure that the, their community efforts stand out?

[00:39:38] Mark Schaefer: This is going to be a really, and I think this will be an answer that surprises you. you know, remember sort of one of the initial ideas about the book and why I wrote the book is that our, our customers are longing to belong. They’re, I mean, we don’t have, think about, you know, young people today, you know, when I was a kid, if, if, if, if you wanted to go to a movie, you found somebody that had a car, you got into the car, you went to the movie, you watched the movie together, and then you had pizza to talk about the movie.

[00:40:17] If you, if you, if you want, if you. You want to explore new music. You find, one of your friends would say, I saved up my money and I bought this record album. Everybody come over to my house and listen to this record album. All that is gone. All that connection, all that community, all you know, all that, all those shared experiences are gone.

[00:40:41] People put the earbuds in their head and they consume their own lane of content and it’s, it’s, it’s isolated And independent of anything else going on in the world other than maybe Taylor Swift.

[00:40:56] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:40:58] Mark Schaefer: but I mean, so, so this, the, the isolation and loneliness, where we’re going with technology and marketing, it’s just making it worse. You know, your instinct might be, oh, well, to make a community great, maybe it’s, you know, it’s great content or, you know, great people. I really think it’s, can you be the most belonging place? Can you really feel, make people feel heard and, and, and validated? You know, it, you know, I, you know, I try my best in my community to really pay attention, especially if there’s a new voice.

[00:41:41] Ian Anderson Gray: I

[00:41:43] Mark Schaefer: in the community and maybe they’re saying, is anybody going to hear me here? You know, I want them to know that they’re heard. I want them to know that they are welcome no matter, you know, how much experience they have. We need that diversity. I, you know, I want people from all over the world and all different ages at all different types of experience, because that will, that will make the community stronger.

[00:42:06] And I, I want them to know that, that they’re, that they’re cherished. in, in the community. And I think that’s the most powerful thing. And, and if you have that, the energy and the passion, will, will, will follow and the ideas will follow. Hey, what if we did this? Okay. Why don’t you do that? Really? I could do that?

[00:42:33] Yeah, go ahead and do it. I mean, that’s kind of, that was scary for me at first as a leader. You know, people say, yeah, I’d love to do that. I can’t believe you’re letting me do that. And that’s how the community grows.

[00:42:47] Jeff Sieh: That’s cool.

[00:42:49] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. And I think, I think that’s how I felt certainly with, with the book. And, and I know a lot of the other co authors felt the same, like, Oh my goodness, like Mark Schafer is allowing us to be a part of this book. so yeah, I mean, I think, I think one of the things with communities is, is that. Like people are sometimes scared.

[00:43:09] They, they, they’re worried about like appearing stupid, saying a silly question. And so there’s a lot of lurkers I find with communities, the communities that I’ve been part of, and the ones that I’ve created myself in the past, there are a lot of lurkers because people are afraid to kind of, Almost be vulnerable and share what’s on their mind.

[00:43:29] How do you, how, how do brands, how do you do that in the Rise community? Cause you, you definitely have created this community where people feel open to, to be part of it and to, to talk about things, but how do brands do that in a practical way?

[00:43:44] Mark Schaefer: Yeah, I think. You know, first of all, that I don’t get hung up if people lurk, I respect that people have different personality types, they learn in different ways, you know, I’ve had people write me notes saying, Mark, this is the most amazing community I’ve ever been part of. I’ve never even seen them in the community before, but they just, they want to observe, they want to listen, and you know what?

[00:44:15] That’s okay. I mean, I, that’s perfectly fine. you know, I, I certainly it, it, it would be, it would be more ideal if, if they were active in helping to create the community in a more proactive way. But I also respect that being an introvert or just wanting to listen, that’s part of human diversity.

[00:44:39] Right. So that’s okay. I’m not going to get, I don’t have any goals about engagement rates or engagement levels. And I think all I can do, you know, and I just, I take this so seriously is just, you know, I want this to be a safe place. I don’t want anybody to feel scared or intimidated. I don’t want to feel, I don’t want anybody to feel, you know, disrespected.

[00:45:06] And, and here’s one of the interesting things that happen, happens is that we’ve been able to have really, I mean, debates in our group on very touchy subjects. And, you know, like we had a massive debate about the whole like Bud Light, you know, debacle, and we were able to have this debate in a way that was 100 percent professional, 100 percent you know, professional.

[00:45:38] Almost clinical, 100 percent respectful. And I’m so proud of that. You know, I’m so proud of that. And, and that’s so all, you know, all I can do is, is just make it safe. if there’s a problem, nip it in the bud and, and then let me. Let people make their own decisions. I think that’s the only thing you can do in, in, in a, in a community.

[00:46:04] I, you know, I’m not going to get hung up on engagement rates.

[00:46:09] Jeff Sieh: So when Mark was talking about lurkers, he was talking about me. He was being kind, but that’s me. So, cause I go in there all the time and just see what’s going on in the conversation. But I did go when Ian did present at, in the Metaverse, I did go and support my friend

[00:46:22] Mark Schaefer: Oh yeah, I remember that.

[00:46:23] Jeff Sieh: So, yeah, it was, it was fun.

[00:46:26] but one of the things, one of the reasons I love doing this live show is, you know, our, You were talking about people engaging and taking care of on each other. And like Katie already in the comments is like great comment, Kira. And they talk back and forth. And I love that. That’s what I, why I do the show every week is because it’s so much fun.

[00:46:42] And also because Ecamm makes it so, so easy to do. And once again, they’re. Their sponsor show ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Find out more about them there and go to their Discord community or their Facebook group and check out the, what Ian and I’ve talked about with their, their community. And also make sure you go to Rise Community on Discord as well.

[00:46:58] It is, it is, even if you lurk like

[00:47:00] Mark Schaefer: you, you actually, you needed it, you needed invitation.

[00:47:03] Jeff Sieh: Oh, do you?

[00:47:04] Mark Schaefer: So yeah, because that, I don’t, you know, it’s, it’s not a place where everybody’s, you know, so, because to come in, you’ve got to understand there’s certain rules, right? So, but anybody who wants to come in. All they have to do is send me an email, so maybe you can, maybe you could put my email address up there, Jeff, if anybody’s interested.

[00:47:22] Just send me an email, and, and say, hey, you know, I want to, I want in, and, we’ll get you onboarded, and you can. You know, you can be part of the community.

[00:47:32] Jeff Sieh: Well, one of the things I, on that note, there’s only a few emails that I read every time they come out and they’re Mark’s emails. He does great job with his emails and he also responds to them. Like if I have a comment or question, he responds back to me. you know, I think that’s even how he got on the show is that he, he did that and he said, Hey, you know, I said, Hey, do you want to come on?

[00:47:50] He said, yeah. So, yeah, get his email, sign up for his newsletter, which you can do on his, I’m going to go into this community impact a little bit with our, gosh, this has flown by so fast. you mentioned these, you know, you can’t measure the ROI very well in, but to measure engagement is one of them.

[00:48:16] Is there any other metrics that you, that you think When you’re looking at the RISE community, you’re going, oh, we need to spend more time there, or I need to do more events, or how do you figure out those things that keep the community growing and engaged if you see something like stagnant, you know, being stagnant or something like that?