SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello, folks.

[00:00:00] Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not.

[00:00:04] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:12] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever pondered what it truly takes to launch a successful podcast? Maybe you’re intrigued by the secrets behind impactful podcasting, or maybe even you’re looking to turn your passion into a popular and respected podcast. Well, if these questions strike a chord with you… Then you’re in for a treat today.

[00:00:29] Today we’re ecstatic to welcome a guest who has accomplished just that. He is a pioneer of podcasting who has turned his passion for sharing knowledge into the globally recognized school of podcasting. Dave Jackson will be sharing his journey, his insights, and his top tips for successful podcasting. So sit back.

[00:00:48] Clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for an episode chock full of podcasting knowledge. So let’s dive right in. Dave, thank you so much for being here, my friend.

[00:00:58] Dave Jackson: Gents, I am happy to be here and always happy. You don’t have to twist my arm too hard to talk podcasting.

[00:01:04] Jeff Sieh: Yes, and you are Mr. Podcast. You know, I want, I want to, if you guys don’t know who Dave is, I want to introduce you to him because he has, he began his podcasting career in 2005 and launched the School of Podcasting. You can find out more about that at schoolofpodcasting. com. And his School of Podcasting show has over 3.

[00:01:22] 1 million downloads. And he has helped hundreds of people plan, launch, and grow their podcasts. He is the author… of the book, Profit From Your Podcast, Proven Strategies to Turn Listeners Into a Livelihood, and is a featured speaker at many of the events. You know, Connor and I were talking before, we’ve seen him at podcast PodFest, podcast movement.

[00:01:41] He’s been, he’s just been everywhere. So in 2016, Dave joined Libsyn, the largest podcasting hosting company, as part of their tech support team. And in 2018, he was inducted into the Academy of the Podcasters Hall of Fame. Once again, you can find them at schoolofpodcasting. com. I’m just so excited we have this amazing podcast guru in our on our show today, so thanks again, Dave, for being on the show.

[00:02:05] Dave Jackson: It’s always weird when I hear that. I’m like, are you guys sure you’re talking about me? Like, okay, sure. All right.

[00:02:11] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I’ve, I mean, I, I looked at it, it looks like it, you really got the award, because I saw a picture of you, you know, those are hard, that was before AI, so I’m pretty sure that was you. So, we’ll just give you the benefit of the doubt. So, really quickly, we got some more comments coming in. My friend Jim Fuse watching over YouTube saying good morning, Jeff.

[00:02:28] Dave and Connor, thanks Jim, for stopping by. Yes, Hall of Famer Dave Jackson. Yeah, that’s pretty cool. And then Chris Stone says he is the proud member of the School of Podcasting right here. Dave is the best. So, you brought your fan club. That’s always cool. I want to talk about really quick something, you know, I’m a big fan of is our friends over at Ecamm.

[00:02:50] They can, you can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive. com forward slash Ecamm. They are what make the show possible and, you know, we’re talking about podcasting these past episodes and a couple more to come and they make, if you’re doing a podcast, make it super easy. They’re kind of, you know, what, Alton Brown is one of my favorite chefs in the world and he doesn’t have anything in his kitchen that only does one thing.

[00:03:10] Well, that’s like Ecamm. Ecamm does so many things. It lets you do a podcast. It lets you do live video. When I’m done with this show, I’m going to have isolated audio tracks, isolated video tracks that I can repurpose. I can make presentation, YouTube videos, all of it. It’s a jack of all trades. So if you don’t know about Ecamm and you are on a Mac and you want to do what we’re doing here, go to socialmedianewslive.

[00:03:30] com forward slash Ecamm and check them out. All right. Back to the show. This is, I want to just jump right in, Dave. And like. Tell us your, your story, how you got started in podcasting, why you even, you know, went down the road into podcasting in the first place.

[00:03:47] Dave Jackson: yeah, I, my background’s in teaching. I taught in the corporate world for decades, going back to the days of how to surf the internet, because nobody knew what it was, and I was building websites in Frontpage and Dreamweaver, and a friend of mine, I had a website, using front page. Yeah. Back in the day, all four musicians about how to get more gigs, sell more CDs, you know, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:04:12] And a friend of mine was really into marketing and he came back from an event. He said, Hey, I’ve seen the next big thing. Cause I kind of missed the MySpace boat again, dating myself. And he said, you know how you missed the MySpace boat? I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. He’s like, all right, the next big thing. is going to be podcasting.

[00:04:27] And I remember I Googled it and there was one and a half pages on a Google search result. And I went, wait, how do you spell that again? Okay. I’m like one and a half results. And so when I finally figured it out, and I remember I uploaded a file and saw it come down in this kind of archaic software. I was like, Oh, I get this.

[00:04:44] And so I started a podcast for musicians. And within like two, maybe three weeks, I got a voicemail from Michael Van Laar from Nuremberg, Germany. I went, wait, Wait a minute. So somebody on the other side of the planet not only found my show, but liked it. And I just grabbed my flag and I’m like, okay, this, this scratches every itch I have.

[00:05:04] It’s creative. It’s kind of geeky. And I get to help people. And I was like, okay, I’m in on this podcasting thing. And then shortly after that started the school of podcasting.

[00:05:13] Jeff Sieh: So, real quick, and I couldn’t find this number, but how many shows do you have, have you done, and how many shows are out currently?

[00:05:21] Dave Jackson: Somewhere around 32 Many of them like I started one called the customer service show because that’s another one of my backgrounds And I think I did the traditional six episodes and you quit because I it was something I did But it’s not something I’m super passionate about and I just sounded like a grumpy old guy I’d be like I went into McDonald’s today and nobody said hello, and it was just like ah so that was the end of that So I started one With podcast promos where I would give everything that’s where I learned if you don’t have control of the content That’s a bad idea because if you’re relying on your audience and you don’t have one yet, that’s that’s a problem So the ones that are current right now, it’s hard School of podcasting Podcast Review Show, Podcast Rodeo Show, where I grab a random podcast and see how long it can hang on.

[00:06:11] Your Podcast Consultant Building a Better Dave, Ask the Podcast Coach, I think that’s all of them. I’m probably missing one. But, oh The Future of Podcasting with Daniel J. Lewis. So that’s seven.

[00:06:25] Jeff Sieh: but those, are those, those aren’t weekly shows, are they?

[00:06:27] Dave Jackson: Your Podcast Consultant, The Future of Podcasting or Bi Weekly Building a Better Dave is whenever I feel like it. There’s another one Podcasting Resources is kind of whenever I feel like it. Web Tools Radio is whenever I feel like it. So as much as I preach, have a schedule and stick to it. Unless you’re doing 10 podcasts, in that which case, you’d be like, yeah, that’s ridiculous.

[00:06:53] Jeff Sieh: So I, once again, so guys, ask your questions today, because I’m really excited we even got Dave on the show, because he’s really busy putting out podcasts, so make

[00:07:01] Dave Jackson: That’s it.

[00:07:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and Chris goes Profit From Your Podcast is another one. See, Dave doesn’t

[00:07:06] Dave Jackson: Oh yeah, there you go. Yeah.

[00:07:08] Jeff Sieh: yeah, and Gary says the one thing about, I love about Dave is he’s an awesome storyteller at heart and a great sense of humor, too, so, yes, so, I agree, so, Connor, I don’t, I’ll take all the time, so I’ll let you go because we’re talking about questions and I know you had one.

[00:07:21] Conor Brown: Well, I just want to say, I think that that McDonald’s podcast sounds really intriguing. I

[00:07:25] Jeff Sieh: get off my lawn! Yeah.

[00:07:27] Conor Brown: go to each place and see how they’re doing on customer service. I’d love that. But it is interesting how you, you mentioned like passion and things like that. Like you, you have to be passionate about it.

[00:07:37] You have to know what you’re getting into. You know, you can’t build something. from, from scratch that’s reliant on audience behaviors. If you don’t have an audience, I think those are some of the important factors to think of when it comes to starting your own podcast. But, but Dave, if someone’s out there, they have an idea, they want to launch into it, they want to start a show.

[00:07:58] What are some really crucial key factors podcast?

[00:08:05] Dave Jackson: Yeah, there are two big questions. One is, why are you doing this? And there’s many reasons. One is, I don’t know, I want to talk about Batman in the Basement with my buddy. And the beauty of that, why, is the minute episode one is out, your podcast is successful. Congratulations. You have achieved your goal.

[00:08:21] Keep doing it. But it might be, I want to get my brand in front of people. So I’m going to do a short show three times a week. So I can just keep saying mybrand. com, mybrand. com. Maybe I want to show myself off as an expert. Okay, now I’m going to do maybe a 20 30 minute. Weekly show to really show look at how much I know.

[00:08:39] You know, so there are all sorts of different reasons. That’s your your why and you need to know that because that’s gonna steer your content. It’s gonna steer your schedule. Then you really, really, and by that I mean really need to know who you are talking to. An example, if I do a show for widows, Okay, it’s widows.

[00:08:58] I’ve niched down from everyone to widows. Okay, but there’s still a difference between the 38 year old widow who lost her spouse in a car accident to the 87 year old widow who lost her spouse to, you know, natural causes. So that when you do that episode like, hey, how to get back in the dating pool, probably, probably not going to apply to that.

[00:09:19] And what you then do… Is you’ve got your why, and you’ve got your who, and you overlap them. And now you figure out, okay, what can I talk about that’s going to make my target audience either laugh, cry, think, groan, educate, or entertain. What’s going to do that? In other words, how am I going to hold their attention while getting them to do my why?

[00:09:40] And that why again could be things like, I just need to get the word out. I can’t get any exposure on, you know, traditional media, things like that. So that’s where it overlaps because if I just do. What I want to talk about, well, then you’re not going to get an audience because they don’t want to hear about that.

[00:09:55] And if you just talk about what they want to hear, that’s great. And that’s where you get the people that do 10 episodes and quit because, well, I’m not even inching towards my why. So that’s those are two things I always identify. And if you’re trying to do a podcast for everyone, that doesn’t work. It just doesn’t.

[00:10:14] Jeff Sieh: So let’s dive into that just a little bit. And this is a great question that kind of ties into it. John Piper says, Dave, any concern with seven shows, podcasts going too wide versus focus on half of that and going deep? So that’s kind of the question I wanted to talk about is like, how important is it for you to define that target audience before starting a podcast?

[00:10:34] And more important, because you said it was important, but how do you find those strategies to identify them? Because a podcast you’re starting in, it’s not like you’re writing a blog post and getting comments. It’s, it’s really, you know, you’re talking and hoping you’re getting something back. So how do you identify some of those strategies to kind of niche down?

[00:10:50] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:51] Dave Jackson: a couple of them that I teach is one is go to Amazon and search for whatever your topic is and then go look at the reviews. And what you’re looking for is a two star and a four star. Now why those? Because a five star is going to be like, best book ever! And one star is going to be like, total rubbish!

[00:11:11] Right? So I need a two, because the two would be like, hey, I would have given this a one, but they did do this. A four star is like, hey, it’s pretty good, but they didn’t talk about such and such. So that’s typically a little more something to chew on besides like, worst book ever. Like, okay, what do I do with that?

[00:11:30] Same thing with YouTube. The beauty of YouTube and also one of its, you know, downsides is there are a lot of comments on a podcast or on videos. So you can go in… Find a podcast about your subject and you can, A, sort by what’s their, you know, best video, what’s the most popular. So now I know I’m looking at the stuff that my audience is looking for, and then look at the comments.

[00:11:55] And again, you’ll see where it’s like, this is great, but you didn’t talk about so and so, because people on YouTube love to let you know when you’re wrong. And then, likewise, you’ll, you’ll get this. So that kind of gives you a clue. And then I hang out in a lot of Facebook groups and Reddit. I used to hang out in Quora, but they started a plan where they’re, they’re paying people to post questions.

[00:12:15] So the questions are, in quality, are kind of coming down a little bit. So it’s just a matter of, and when I go to Facebook groups, it’s not to go in and just promote myself. Before, again, before Facebook, there was a a group of X Radio DJs, and I swear I heard like, Oh, I was like, these are the people I’m trying to reach.

[00:12:36] And I ran in, I’m like, Hey, everybody, I’m Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting. I know you want to get back on the air. I can get you in front of a global audience. Everybody follow me. Let’s go. And they banned me in like 20 minutes. They’re like, who is this spamming fool? Get him out of here. So, but I, I go to these Facebook groups to listen.

[00:12:52] And, and when I can, I will chime in and help. But a lot of times I just want to see what people are talking about, because that’s when I’m like, Ooh, that’s, that’s something I’m going to talk about. When I was at Podcast Movement, I heard the phrase overwhelm three times. Cause it’s, well, number one, you’re at a conference and you’re just sucking in you know, education with a fire hose.

[00:13:12] So I can understand feeling overwhelmed, but nonetheless, I heard people say that. And I was like, I need to do an episode on why overwhelm is kind of normal and how to kind of, You know, put up some roadblocks to not get so overwhelmed. So I’m, I’m really listening when I go into these groups, but no matter what you do.

[00:13:29] You’re going to put something out and you think everybody’s going to love it. And the ones you think are great are going to be the ones that are crickets. And then other ones, you’re like, Hmm, I guess I’ll put this out. People like best episode ever. So it’s just a matter of, of listening to your audience and answering every email that comes in when you get them.

[00:13:46] And if there are comments and things like that, but you try to hone that target. And when you aim it perfect, when you miss, you land on pretty doggone good.

[00:13:58] Jeff Sieh: Hmm. Wow. Lots of stuff there. I so, I, I always tease people and what you talked about back in the day, and I know Chris Stone is just waiting for you to say Google Plus, because that’s, that’s a drinking game we play here. Whenever I mention that, ’cause I was way back in the day. But yeah, go ahead, Connor, I’m sorry, this is free, this is free consulting and I’m like, where’s all my notes?

[00:14:20] So, go ahead.

[00:14:22] Conor Brown: Jeff out. That’s what it is. He can’t contain himself. You know, I, I like how you, you mentioned the word overwhelmed. Because I think a lot of people starting a podcast can feel that way. Overwhelmed about just getting started, about getting your equipment and maybe even about planning. And I saw on, on your wall behind you, you had a sign that said, plan, start, grow, monetize.

[00:14:43] So it always starts with, with planning when it comes to starting a podcast. Can you talk a little bit about the role of planning and preparation? How detailed or extensive should one plan, should one’s plan be when it comes to starting a new show?

[00:15:01] Dave Jackson: Yeah, the thing I hate to see, on one hand, I love when somebody goes, I’m starting a podcast August 18th. I’m like, that’s great, because it kind of puts a little pressure on you, but when it comes to August 18th… 15th and you’re not quite ready. The world has waited 20 years for your podcast. It can wait a another week or so.

[00:15:18] So I I’ve seen people make really bad decisions because they drove a line in the sand. So I see both sides of that story, but in terms of planning what you want to do, It’s just things like. I like last year, I got 6, 000 downloads from things not named Apple and Spotify. So put your show everywhere, make sure that’s there.

[00:15:37] Just everything, this goes back to your why. So if my why is I want to monetize, well, you better have some sort of newsletter set up even if it’s just, I had a. A lead magnet that was like, would you like a copy of this article in a PDF? Like they’re looking right at it. They don’t need it. And people would sign up for that.

[00:15:55] So you don’t have to get super creative with a lead magnet. If you’re like, I don’t know what a lead magnet is. Just go here. Would you like these show notes given to you every week? So that’s part of it is what is my why? And then the other thing of planning is, and this is the step I think most people. And that is getting some honest feedback. Cause mom said it was great. My brother said it was okay, but you need somebody to go, Hey, like in that middle part, I don’t know if you know this or not, but like, you’re only coming out of the left channel or, you know, I can’t read your artwork because you put your name and by the time it’s, you know, shrunk down to 150 pixels, nobody can read it and things like that.

[00:16:36] So, and I understand why. I last month I created kind of a sales video and by the end of it, I think I did 14 versions of it. But why? Because I went out to my newsletter people and I said, Hey, you guys like my stuff. Can you tell me what I’m missing here? And, you know, I said, just talk about it. Like I’m not in the room.

[00:16:56] And they did. And it was amazing. But there was a point where I just like, I just want this out. I’ve been, I’m tired of watching the same three minute video. So I get why people just want to get it out. But in the end, you know, get some feedback on that. And cause it makes no sense because some people will not only launch.

[00:17:14] But their first instinct is I’m going to buy Facebook ads and I’m going to do this and that and all this paid advertisement, which is not a horrible strategy if your podcast is getting the result that you’re looking for. But if it’s not, you’re just lighting your money on fire. So, but that’s part of it too.

[00:17:30] You know, getting some hype. So, one of the things you can do with planning is Hey, I’ve got three examples of my artwork. Which one’s best? Which ones do you like? So you’re starting to get your community involved and you’re giving a little behind the scenes. So when it’s finally time to launch. Then you’re like, okay, everybody go to my website.

[00:17:50] I’m not going to tell you to go find my podcast, wherever find podcasts are, because searching those apps is horrible. And I’m going to tell them to go to my website slash follow. And there’s Apple, Google, Spotify, and Amazon. And then they can share that link, which is going to boost my SEO. They don’t have to, you know, go through all the things.

[00:18:07] So that’s part of the planning is just like, okay, I’m going to do this. And then I’m going to do that. And then the, the start is okay. Now it’s in all the apps. Now I’ve told all my friends and family. And that’s really where all the fun, that’s where the work starts. People think launching the podcast is hard.

[00:18:22] It’s like, I thought writing a book was going to be hard. No, getting people to read the book is really the job.

[00:18:28] Jeff Sieh: Right, and it is, I have his book, I was going to have him autograph it, but it’s a Kindle and it’s really hard to, it gets really messy when people start doing that. Well, since we’re talking about podcasting pitfalls, really quick, a callback to what you were talking about with the, you know, getting your community involved.

[00:18:43] I remember when I first launched MainlyPinterestTips and I had my logo and it was this blue and I sent it to my friend. And this blue was like, if you were slowly choking a Smurf, that’s the kind of color it was. It was horrible. It was a horrible color, and she was nice enough to go like, you know, you might want to try this color, and so that is really important that you don’t get somebody else to look at it before you, you know, release it to the public, because I would have been even more embarrassed.

[00:19:05] We’re talking about podcasting pitfalls. You know, what are some, I know one of the misconceptions, like, you launch a podcast, you’re going to be able to retire to Puerto Rico and hang out with John Lee Dumas. Like, that’s not, that’s not really a good perception of podcasting. What are some other ones you’ve, you’ve talked about?

[00:19:21] Because we’re talking about pitfalls. What do people kind of… Have wrong when they think about when they’re launching a podcast.

[00:19:26] Dave Jackson: The, they get obsessed over the tech, you know, and I mean, this is a 200 microphone. This is a 69 microphone, the Samsung QTU. There is not a whole lot of difference. If you’re using. You’re building laptops microphone. That’s a big difference. Please don’t do that. And by that, I mean, for the love of God, don’t do that.

[00:19:48] You know, so there’s that and they get hung up on the tech. And I always say, if, if your audience isn’t saying your audio is bad, why are you focusing on all the tech? You know, it’s really not, I don’t have anybody going, Dave, you got to listen to this show. And I go, why? And they’re like, it’s like butter for your ears.

[00:20:04] I don’t have, it’s usually the content and we need to kind of quit focusing on, I need to get more downloads. The goal should be, I want to be the most talked about podcast. Because if you’re the most talked about, you will get more downloads. So, so the tech I see people get, and then I, I was so happy. I, a member of the school of podcasting gave me her first episode and I was talking to her about it and I said, you know, it’s kind of weird because you kind of sound like NPR in this.

[00:20:33] And I go, when we talk, you’re kind of fun and bubbly. And she was very NPR and very serious and this and that. And she came back later and she was again, worried about. The audience, you know, insert reverb here. And I’m like, you don’t really have a big audience yet. And also it’s hard to try to be somebody that you’re not.

[00:20:55] And one of her friends said, just be yourself. And so she recorded the same content again. And plus, because we’d gone over her why, she had a really good call to action at the end. And I said, what, what. What’s the difference? I said, this is night and day. And she said, Oh, I just, I just was myself. And I just pretended, I would say, talk to your invisible friend across the desk if you’re doing a solo show.

[00:21:16] And so that’s the other one. I see people get really hung up on, this is going out to the world. And I’m like, really, it’s going out to about 13 people, if you count your cousins. So, so, and that’s really what kind of holds people back. And you had mentioned passion. And when you first start off, you have fear, this fear of, I’m going to sound stupid.

[00:21:38] Well, that’s why there’s editing this fear that nobody’s going to listen. Not unless you tell them to, you know, you have this big fear. And what happens is you need that passion. Cause when the passion is higher than the fear, that’s when you press record. But if you keep focusing on your fear and your worries, no, focus on that one person.

[00:21:58] Focus on that little itty bitty person that needs to hear your stuff. And when that passion to help that one person is greater than your fear, that’s when you actually press record.

[00:22:08] Jeff Sieh: Oh, wow. That’s, that’s a tweetable right there. That’s really good. Well, now,

[00:22:11] Dave Jackson: That is, that’s, that’s my latest bumper sticker.

[00:22:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it’s an exable now, I guess is what it is. So, funny thing is you’re talking about not worrying about tech. Well, we’re going to talk about tech next. But, I wanted to bring up Chris Stone’s comment, because I think it’s really, really good.

[00:22:24] He goes, what are some ways to get feedback? From your existing audience to improve your show, like asking what types of content they’d like to hear, etc. Because it is kind of, a podcast is, like I said, it kind of feels like a one way street sometimes. So how do you do that?

[00:22:38] Dave Jackson: My favorite mistake I’ve ever made. I went to. Email, I want to get 10 email addresses from my newsletter. So again, the more I use it, the more I really am glad I have a newsletter. And my newsletter literally is a paragraph. This is what I’ve been up to, blah, blah, blah. It’s hot. Are you cool? Okay. And then here’s what I’ve been up to.

[00:22:56] And then it’s just a link to all my episodes. and a call to action. That’s my newsletter. It’s not war and peace, but I went to it and said, I’m going to take 10 addresses and I’m going to do this automated thing and send out like, Hey, I want to do some research. I’m working on the show and I really just want some honest feedback.

[00:23:14] If you’re interested, click here to schedule a zoom meeting. And instead of sending it to 10 to my whole list. Oopsie. And so for about Two weeks, I had back to back to back Zoom meetings with my audience. And I’m like, okay, what do you like about the show? Well, you’re kind of funny and you’re entertaining, and I always learn something great.

[00:23:35] What do you wish I would do differently? And then I shut up because they’ll go, Oh, I just love it. And I’m like, okay. And there’s this awkward pause and then go, I don’t know, sometimes like my perfect episode is around 30 minutes and sometimes you go close to an hour. I’m like, great. That’s perfect. That’s what I want to hear.

[00:23:53] And that’s the thing. You can’t be defensive. The best thing you can do is if somebody starts giving you constructive feedback, pull out your phone, pull out a pen and paper and start writing it down. That’s an old customer service trick because just your body language shows your words are important because I’m writing them down.

[00:24:08] So that was one. I just asked my audience. I said, Hey, what can I do better? What do you wish I would do? Are there any topics you want me to cover that I haven’t? So that’s where newsletter comes in. Also if you, if you just want to announce it on your show, what I hear is people say, Hey, I hope you liked this episode.

[00:24:27] You know, if you have any comments, send it in. That’s a little too vague. I do a segment called the question of the month where I ask them one question and specifically tell them how to answer it. I even say, be sure to mention your podcast. And your website because they, people would either a wouldn’t say their website or b, they’d be like, oh, and my website is rt.

[00:24:47] com. And I’m like, yeah, I can’t, I don’t care how much I slow that down. So be specific when you’re asking for, for content. And then if somebody comes up to you, if you’re lucky enough to be in a conference. And somebody says, Oh, hey, I listen to your show, like instant survey. Great. Why do you listen to my show?

[00:25:05] And they’ll be like, why? I’m like, yeah, why, why do you listen to my show? Well, it’s educational and you’re funny. Okay, great. Okay. What do you wish I would do differently? And then enjoy that awkward pause. And I finally had somebody go, for a while I had a cat that liked to interrupt my show and I just let him interrupt and they’re like, the cat thing is kind of on my nerves.

[00:25:23] I’m like, all right, no more Bernie. Got it. So, that, that’s really, and then you know, there are things like Apple. If you go into Podcast Connect, you can see consumption rate. That’s one of those things, like people said, I wish I knew how far people were listening. Yeah, well, be careful for what you ask for when you go and you’re like, well, wait, 54%.

[00:25:43] You know,

[00:25:44] Jeff Sieh: Right. Oh, man, that’s a lot of, that’s good stuff, and I’m gonna, I’m gonna actually do some of that stuff for our audience, because I think that’s some, some great things. Yeah, so Chris goes, ask your audience, then shut up and listen. Love it. Thanks, Dave.

[00:25:56] Dave Jackson: that’s it.

[00:25:57] Jeff Sieh: you. And Brian says, this is great, when we were talking about, like, figuring out who is your audience, he goes, I make every piece of content for a one 16 year old drum student that I have named Paul.

[00:26:08] I love that. That’s really great. Thank you, Brian, for doing that. Yeah.

[00:26:11] Dave Jackson: Brian Stevens was on my first podcast. He’s, he’s all the way back to the musician cyber cooler. That was my very first podcast.

[00:26:18] Jeff Sieh: That’s really cool. And see, he’s watching me now, so I appreciate that. Let’s see, so let’s go into this next section because I want to talk about, we talked about don’t worry about tech, but I really want to, because a lot of podcasters, when they get started, you know, there’s all these gurus saying you need this mic, you need this lighting for video, and you need all this stuff, you need to be on this platform.

[00:26:38] So, let’s, like, strip that all away, Dave, and a beginning podcaster wanting to start what should they invest in?

[00:26:48] Dave Jackson: got it. So, Jeff, your kid wants X Box for his birthday or her birthday. What’s an X Box these days? Three, 400 bucks, something like that. Okay. Samson Q2U. It works via U S B. So if you want to just plug it into your computer plug and play, you’re good to go. If it’s you and a co-host, then it works x l r, so you can plug it into your device.

[00:27:10] And the device I recommend is the Swiss Army Knife of podcasting. Currently the Samson Q two U, it slices, it, dices it, even Julianne’s. You can have four people in the room with you. and do that. Or if you take one of these things, now I can plug it in and now I can do Zoom calls or Ecamm calls or whatever.

[00:27:29] I’ve got that. If I take another channel out and cause I’ve got the guy, I don’t have a computer. You can actually plug a phone into this and the beauty of it is. I remember when I first got this, I’m like, how do I turn on Mix Minus? Mix Minus is a phrase that’s almost extinct. Almost everything now does it for you.

[00:27:46] So everybody can hear everybody. And you’re like, but what if I want a podcast in the woods? Yeah, it runs on batteries if you wanted to. And it’s 200 bucks. So we’re looking at 200 bucks and 70. So an Xbox is at least 300. You spent less. Then an X Box and you’re good to go. That that’ll definitely get you going.

[00:28:05] And I know you’re going to go, but Joe Rogan uses an FM seven B. Yeah, it’s, I mean, this is a 200 microphone. Okay. So this is a this is the pod mic USB. I practice earlier. I’m sorry. I didn’t think it was going to take that. This is the Samson Q2U it’s 69 bucks.

[00:28:27] Jeff Sieh: wow.

[00:28:27] Dave Jackson: So is there 120 different? No, and I get why people change microphones. I got to play the guitar on stage at Podfest and when I played somebody else’s guitar, I didn’t like the tone of it and it affected the way I played.

[00:28:43] So. I, I get that you might not like the sound of your voice on a microphone. In the end, there’s really not that much difference. And in post-production you can always add EQ and, you know, add a little treble, take out the base, whatever you need to do. You can always do that later and kind of make any microphone sound like any microphone.

[00:29:02] Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

[00:29:03] Dave Jackson: So that’s where I’d start.

[00:29:04] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So not a lot to get into the podcasting world if you are passionate about it.

[00:29:12] Dave Jackson: Yeah, it’s, it’s really not that hard.

[00:29:15] Jeff Sieh: Connor,

[00:29:15] Conor Brown: But you, you know, did mention sound quality, right? And, and people listening to themselves and not liking it, this, that, or the other. How important is audio quality in podcasting? And what are some tips that you would say to, to improve that good audio quality of, if someone’s struggling with it?

[00:29:37] Dave Jackson: Yeah, if you have sane people in the room with you, just pretend you’re Oprah. You get a microphone, you get a microphone, everybody gets a microphone. This whole, I’m going to put a blue Yeti to pick up in every direction. And I didn’t really know just how bad it was until I had to drive to Nashville for an event and podcasts in the car.

[00:29:56] And what would happen is you’d have somebody who had a decent mic, so they’re right in your head and they’re talking like this. And then the next person is like, Yeah, that’s a good call, Mike! And you’re like, yeah. And when you add the sound of tires and freeway, I was really having a hard time. So that’s part of it is that, you know, if If how you sound distracts me so much that I can no longer pay attention to what you’re saying, that’s a problem.

[00:30:24] I’m probably the least kind of audio snobby, like my goal is listenable, not absolute perfection with the, the 10k and, you know, people, engineers come in and they just, they just get upset when I say that, but I’m like, no, it just needs to be listenable. So, but it is important because. It just, what happens is when, and I always tell people, you know, point the microphone at the corner of your mouth, be about three fingers away and kind of stay there.

[00:30:52] And if. This kind of sounds like I’m in your head, where if you’ve got a lot of room noise, now it sounds like I’m sitting in the room with you and you’re about seven feet away from me. And it’s subtle, but it makes a difference. And the other thing that I, I just go, ooh, that’s bad, is when somebody comes in, they’ve got the blue Yeti in the bathroom, and it sounds like somebody’s frying bacon underwater.

[00:31:17] And they’re the host. And then the guest comes on and they sound better than you do. And I’m like, that’s not a good look. So again, it doesn’t have to be tons of money, but it is important because the minute you make your audience constantly, especially the volume knob. going to be that. I listened to a show yesterday, and it was interesting because the person made the mistake.

[00:31:38] Oh, darn it. Hold on. Okay, and then the person did it again, and they didn’t edit it out. Now, I get it. We’ve all been there, done that. We’ve, you know, oops, I forgot I had the track on mute. But there is a message that’s sent that’s like, look, if you didn’t take any time to at least try to sound good then how much, I looked down at my phone, I got, I got 39 more minutes of this.

[00:32:02] So if they didn’t do this, does it really show that, you know, they took effort to make a good show? So I think it’s, we can get lost in that, you know, but I always say, remember, because we’re sitting there going, I think I still hear the fan. I think I still hear the fan. People don’t listen like that. You know, keep that in mind.

[00:32:25] Jeff Sieh: Well, I mean, I have, like, when I talk, you can hear my fan because it’s Texas and it’s hot in my office. And I’m like, you know, it’s, do I let them just see me sweat my beard like wilt on camera or do I have a little, so it’s a balancing thing. So can you, I want to, because I think a lot of people find this fascinating, like, what is your process for recording and editing a podcast episode?

[00:32:48] So you can tell us what you actually do and then what actually you teach your students because usually there’s a, there’s a difference sometimes,

[00:32:54] Dave Jackson: Yeah, I use Evernote, but have some sort of tool because brilliance is going to happen when you are nowhere near a computer. For me, it’s right out of the shower. I’m like, wait, where’s my phone? So have something to capture that because there are going to be those weeks when you’re like, I’m not sure what I’m talking about this week.

[00:33:10] And when I go to my, I’m all, that’s right. I’m going to talk about, you know, here’s like five different things I’d completely forgot about. So there’s that. And then everybody has their own thing. Like for example, I used to go, Oh, I got it up here and I would write four bullet points and I would riff on those and I would get done.

[00:33:27] And then as I’m listening to it, after I’ve edited it, I’m typing up the show notes. And inevitably I would hear something go, Oh, you know what I should have said there. And so I switched it. Now I write a blog post because I’m a little ADD. And I was like, I need to figure out what the heck am I trying to say?

[00:33:43] What’s the big takeaway I want my audience to have. And I do that. Then I write up my bullet points and then I record. So, and then if it’s a guest, I listen to their show. If it’s a guest first, that’s one of my first questions. If somebody says, can I come on your show? I’m like, give me a link to where I can hear what you sound like.

[00:34:01] Because a lot of people like to go, Well, you know, the guest audio was bad. What was I supposed to do? Tell them no. Please don’t wreck my brand with bad audio. Again, if, if I have to struggle to hear the guest, what good, what value are they bringing? If I’m like, I don’t know, it sounds like they’re in the rubber, Oh, you guys know what the rubber they’re in the Coliseum or something very echoey.

[00:34:24] So, and I just explained that to guests. Like, look, I’m trying to make you sound amazing. So I’m like, well, you know, nobody’s complained on zoom. Yeah, this isn’t a zoom meeting. It’s a podcast.

[00:34:35] Jeff Sieh: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I wanna, real quick, I wanted to pull up a comment. So, Chris is a little jealous. He says, Dave didn’t do a mic test like that on DealCasters. I’m jealous, Jeff. Well, sorry. Sometimes you just get gold Chris. And then he goes, The best podcasting audio should not be noticeable. Make sure the levels are close to each other and are equal in volume to others.

[00:34:54] On podcasting platforms, if they notice something bad, that’s a problem. Get it good enough. Chris is a big fan of having that one channel in one ear. He’s told me that before, where it’s like, you know, they have a guest in, you know, the host in one ear, and then the guest in another. He loves it. That’s his favorite thing. Not really.

[00:35:10] Dave Jackson: I will, I will split it a little bit. You can pan it, especially if you sound similar. Like if I ever interviewed my brother, it’d be ridiculous because we sound identical. So I don’t mind a little panning, but I think you’re being sarcastic. Maybe the whole left, complete left and right. Yeah. That doesn’t work for the person that You get the job with one earbud in.

[00:35:30] Jeff Sieh: Right, exactly. So, can you tell us what you’d like to use for editing? Because I know a lot of people, I know it doesn’t, in the end, really, maybe matter on, on some things, but is, there’s a preferred one that you like to edit in? Ha!

[00:35:45] Dave Jackson: this thing on the side called the clipboard. So what I will do, especially now I’m, I’m dabbling in the, the NPR, the narrative style for interviews. And what I will do is first, what I do is I listen to a question. And then I listened to, when did they start answering the question?

[00:36:00] Because many times it’s like, hey, tell us about the time when you did the thing. And they go, well, really, I just started doing this about a month ago. I used to have a team member that did that. And, you know, I’m not really that up on this. Okay. Did they answer the question yet? No, that’s all back end story.

[00:36:15] That’s out of there. Then they start answering the question. Now, the other thing I listened to is. Did they answer the question? So if Jeff asked me, Hey, what’s your favorite pizza? And I go purple. Okay. I, I, I, I answered the question, but I didn’t answer the question. So I will just take that out. And so with Hindenburg, I can say, yep, that’s a keeper and that’ll label it.

[00:36:36] Oh, this was intro story. This was. Whatever. And I put those over there. And if I’m doing narrative style, I will put the things together. And then you’re like, wait, I have these five clips and three kind of go together in one dozen. That’s where the narration comes into play. You’re the bridge that ties their story together.

[00:36:53] So I really love Hindenburg for that. Somebody asked me the other day, how do I do a narrative style guy? Step one, go get Hindenburg. I’m like you could do it in Audacity or other tools, but that little thing on the side where you just, it’s very visual you can see, and it’s a little bit, the one I did, I felt like I just put together a desk from Ikea, because I still had two clips left, and I listened to it and I’m like, Those don’t really fit into this whole thing.

[00:37:18] And this is really good the way it is. And I was like, yeah, that’s, that’s okay. We’ll save those for later. So that’s that. And it’s funny. I still use Sony SoundForge. If I’m going to be going in and cutting out ums and you knows and things like that. I use that. Why? Cause that’s one of the first softwares I ever learned.

[00:37:33] And you know, why learn something else? And there are, you know, Preeper, there’s 50 other. But I know that one. And even though when I speed it up, I listened at a like 1. 7 if I’m listening for content and cutting out ums and things like that. But that’s the one I use. I could do that in Hindenburg, but again, it’s old habits die hard.

[00:37:52] So that’s that’s that. I typically don’t need to do things like Auphonic and, you know, Rx10 and all that. I get that, I do edit for some people, and they’re the people that just hand me extremely horrible audio that I then have to clean up. So if you record it, you know, I would say, I think these are illegal now, but if you remember Teeter Totters, it was a thing on a playground.

[00:38:17] More planning equals less editing. And less planning where you’re just winging it you know, and well, then you’re going to be doing a whole lot more editing. So if you start off your interview with, so tell me a little bit about yourself. There was a part of me that goes, ah, somebody didn’t do their homework, but also you’re kind of searching for where’s this interview going to go.

[00:38:36] Shouldn’t, shouldn’t you kind of know that before you hit record?

[00:38:40] Jeff Sieh: Well, we try to plan, like, you know, you’ve seen the questions we’ve seen. I always try to have something ready. One of the things I wanted to talk, ask you is first of all, that Lou Mangiello is here and he said hey, I love Dave Jackson from Lou Mangiello right there. The other thing is, you know, I used a script and it’s almost the same thing.

[00:38:59] It sounds like, I haven’t played with Hindenburg, but I’m able to visualize the clips and I can capture them and move them over. The other, where can people listen to an example of your story kind of telling podcast? Where’s, where’s that at?

[00:39:11] Dave Jackson: SchoolofPodcasting. com, search for Deidre Shen from CapShow. That was the one that I did narrative.

[00:39:22] Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. Very, very cool. So, go ahead, Connor. Sorry, I jumped your line.

[00:39:26] Conor Brown: no, you’re, you’re all good. So, so Dave, we, we got our idea, we got our name, we have our, our brand, we have our focus and our goals and our tech equipment and how we’re going to edit everything, but I think the final kind of very important. Key piece is hosting platform. And I think this is something that a lot of people can be a little scared of because maybe they have edited things in the past.

[00:39:50] So they’re familiar with that. Maybe they’ve used tech in the past like this. They’re familiar with that. They’re familiar with marketing, but this could be a whole new world to someone just starting out in the podcast space. So how does one go about. Selecting the right podcast hosting platform for them.

[00:40:07] And what would you say are some important factors to consider for those just starting out

[00:40:12] Dave Jackson: Yeah. So full disclosure, I am the head of podcaster education at Libsyn. com, which is a media host. So, but this is what I would say. Number one, some people think like, Hey, I’m on Podbean. Should I switch to Captivate or Buzzsprout? And just realize, number one, out of the gate, it’s not going to make your show grow.

[00:40:32] It’s not, if somebody’s going, Oh, you should listen to the show, Dave. Why? Oh, they use Captivate. No, it’s the content. And so if I was driving to Texas to see Jeff. I would take my brother’s van because the interface is made for long hauls. It’s got a bunch of cupholders, it’s got a better stereo, and I’m going to be taking the van.

[00:40:51] I’ve got the big captain’s chairs versus my Camry, right? So that’s where sometimes a lot of these have, you know, 30 day trials, and if they don’t do it for 30 days and ask for a refund, most of them will give you one. Go in and check out the interface because… In some cases, all of them will, you know, do everything and your laundry.

[00:41:10] Okay, but do you need all those features? Because in some cases, it does this, it does that, it has network stats, it does, and you’re like, I don’t have a network, okay. Well, you’re going to be stepping over those features to get to the ones you want. So, it’s kind of a figure out what am I doing. So, if I’m an entrepreneur, And I’m going to be promoting my stuff for the record.

[00:41:30] The best way to monetize your show, by the way, it’s not advertising, it’s promoting your stuff. Well, then I’m going to want something that has dynamic ads. So either Libsyn has an enterprise version, there’s Captivate, there’s Buzzsprout there’s all sorts of tools out there that do that. If I’m not going to be doing that, well, then maybe I want a media host with, you know, It sounds weird, but with less features because I don’t have to step over them.

[00:41:56] In the end, I, you know, see, this is where people go, Oh, you just say that because you work for Libsyn. But I’ve never been a fan of Spotify because Spotify and I’m talking as Dave Jackson from the School of Podcasting, not a Libsyn employee, but Spotify doesn’t seem to want to play They’re nice with other people they’re very big on using their tools inside of their platform so everything stays in that.

[00:42:19] And we, even when they were anchor, like I think right now you have to ask for RSS feed. Yeah, like you have to turn that on. I’m like without an RSS feed you’re not a podcast. So and I’m always like look if you need to go free, you know, there’s substack and redcircle But you know with free If you don’t like the way they handle their service, you’re not going to not pay them anymore.

[00:42:42] So you kind of get what you, you know, pay for with that. So I don’t know if that’s answering your question. Just, the one thing I wouldn’t do, A you know, I avoid free things. And B, don’t host it on your website. People are like, I’ll just upload it to WordPress and I’ll use, you know, PowerPress for the feed.

[00:43:00] And the reason for that is… A website is there, it’s text and images. So everything’s really, really small. And when you throw a 55 meg MP3 file, and now 400 people try to get it at the same time, it’s a web server. It’s not a bandwidth. It’s not, it’s, there’s too many resources being used. on that website host to where it’s going to, and it can’t keep up.

[00:43:25] So, use the right tool for the right job. So that’s another thing I would say when it comes to, I know people like I’ve been self hosting for 15 years. Okay, you must not be very popular because otherwise your web host would be choking.

[00:43:37] Jeff Sieh: It would be crashing. Yeah. So I, you mentioned when you were at Podcast Movement last year, the thing you heard over and over and over was overwhelm, right? The thing I also heard over and over and over at Podcast Movement was video podcasting. You, if you’re gonna start, you might as well, you know, and I’m a big fan of it because that’s what I’ve done since then.

[00:43:55] Back in, here you go, Chris, Google Plus days. What are your thoughts on video podcasting, and should a new, a person who’s going to jump into the podcasting medium, should they start with video or not?

[00:44:10] Dave Jackson: no. And that’s not, that’s not a popular thing. Let’s start with video. You know, that’s, this is what the networks are doing now. They’re starting with a podcast then deciding, should we turn this into a TV show? Now, if you’ve got a budget and lots of time, by all means, but you’re really starting two shows.

[00:44:28] One is a podcast and one is a YouTube channel. And if you’ve got the budget and time for that, it is more work and you have to shower now and shave and things like that. So. There’s that. I’m, I’m not buying, I know the thing that I always kind of laugh, but YouTube is the number two search engine.

[00:44:47] Okay, but yet you have a link tree for your website. So you’re completely ignoring the number one search engine by having a half baked website. You know, let’s, let’s get a website with some SEO going on to help find your show. And I do a show on Saturday called Ask the Podcast Coach. I’ve, I’ve thrown.

[00:45:07] Yeah, I’ve thrown the video on Spotify video just because I like to play with everything where I’m getting Well, so far, I don’t think I’ve had a single view of that show in the last four episodes on Spotify. Zero. On YouTube, I get a decent amount, but I like triple on audio. Bill Maher launched Club Random, and he was just gonna do video.

[00:45:32] And Rob Walsh at Lipson was like, don’t you want to do audio too, Bill? And we kind of had to twist his arm to do audio. And then Bill hired a PR team and they just promoted the video version of the podcast. And in the end Rob reported that the audio was outpacing the video 10 to one, because there’s just more time to listen than there is to watch.

[00:45:53] So it, it is now that’s the, the kind of the poo poo side, but I’ve also had people that have found me on YouTube. Cause I have a YouTube channel that. You know, the people on YouTube love YouTube and they worship I want to say Mr. Breeze, but that’s not it. Mr. Mr. Beast. Yes, Mr. Beast. They worship at the altar, Mr.

[00:46:13] Beast, and they’re all YouTube all the time. And I’ve had people join the school of podcasting. They’re like, oh, you do audio stuff too? And I’m like, really? Really? So it’s a different audience and, you know, so if you got the time and budget, by all means, then you should be doing it. Turn on the camera while you’re recording your podcast and then have fun editing it.

[00:46:32] But just starting out, again, to avoid the overwhelm, I’d go, let’s just start off with audio.

[00:46:38] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I think that’s, I was able to do it because I was a video guy. And, and, here’s the question I want to, so we’ve got, you know, our friend Lou Mangiello, once again, he says, you know, He loves Libsyn, and he also says video killed the radio start. Now, I want to know what your thoughts are, and you can, you can get on to, I would love to see Lew’s guests on video.

[00:46:57] And I’m like, dude, you’re already doing video, like, they’re using, like, Squadcast or, you know, Riverside, they’re already grabbing the video. Why not put that too? I get it’s a more thing, but I would, I would love to see Lew’s stuff on video. So, would you say, and I’m trying to get you to say yes, Dave, is People like Lou who have an established podcast, that’s the next step.

[00:47:18] Dave Jackson: It’s another way, yeah, because we’re like, you know, we’re on Apple and Spotify and GeoSovin and iHeart and all that. You’re like, I wish there were another place I could put my content. Well, it’s called YouTube and there’s like 80 million gazillion people looking at stuff over there. So yeah, it now That may so yeah, absolutely.

[00:47:36] You know, like I said, I’ve, I’ve had people join the school of podcasting because I have a YouTube channel. So absolutely, if you got the time and budget that you may, and I, I don’t know, Jeff, you can answer this more. Do you have more pushback from people when you’re doing video interviews where they’re like, ah, it’s video?

[00:47:51] Because I know when I asked that question, they’d be like, no, it’s audio. I’m like, okay, cool. I can show up in my pajamas and you know,

[00:47:57] Jeff Sieh: right. So I, you know, I’ve never had that. I think that COVID helped a lot, getting people, like, understanding what camera ready is. I mean, like, I know Connor and I aren’t wearing pants right now. But,

[00:48:07] Dave Jackson: Me neither.

[00:48:08] Jeff Sieh: know, see, and I figured Dave wasn’t either. But so to me it’s, there is a little bit of that.

[00:48:13] And it’s also because mine is scheduled. Like, mine’s a live show. You don’t have to do a live show. But some people are like, hey, I can’t do it that time. I’m like, well, it’s this time every week, so, sorry. But yeah, so, if you can, I think it’s great because I’m all about repurposing. Getting people to listen to your podcast is being able to throw these clips up on the video.

[00:48:32] I’m still not a big fan of audiograms. Some people get them to work, but I just don’t see

[00:48:36] Dave Jackson: Preach brother.

[00:48:38] Jeff Sieh: But clips, like you were talking about before, Dave, you ask a question, you get a great answer. That’s a clip. That’s a clip I can shout everywhere. And so, I like

[00:48:46] Dave Jackson: I tell them in a perfect world, record your video on video. You record your video on video. That’s, that’s a brilliant, that’s a bumper sticker right there. Record your show on video. And exactly what Jeff said, turn those into clips, strip out the audio, make that a podcast, you know, just bring every ounce of value out of that content.

[00:49:07] And that would be the perfect way. And that’s kind of what I do. I don’t do the clip thing, and I should, with Ask the Podcast Coach. It’s just one of those, and that’s and that’s just me being cheap, basically, because I don’t, I don’t have enough time to do that. And when you don’t have time, then you have to…

[00:49:22] Pay money for somebody else to do it. And I’m just like, yeah, I’ll get around to it. So.

[00:49:28] Jeff Sieh: Well, real quick, one of the tools, because the only way I can do this, and the repurposing thing, is because of places like Ecamm, which allow me to have this man have it. When they went to having isolated video tracks at the end of the show, oh my gosh, that changed everything. So, if you’re on a Mac and you want to learn how to do this, socialmedianewslive.

[00:49:44] com forward slash Ecamm, they’re the sponsor of the show, but I was using way before they were sponsoring me. They allow me to do all this repurposing that we’ve been talking about, so check them out. socialmedianewslive. com forward slash Ecamm. Before we wrap up, I want to get, like, I know we talked about podcasting pitfalls, but other than what, you know, new podcasters make when they’re just starting out, we kind of covered that, but what is, like, a mistake you made when you first started that you went, oh my gosh and you, I’m changing everything because I’ve learned my lesson now.

[00:50:17] What was something that you did when you first started out?

[00:50:19] Dave Jackson: I try to do everything. The, the kind of running joke about the school of podcasting was, well, it has everything you need to start a podcast. That was the good news. The bad news is it had everything. So you just walked in, it’s like, here’s Above Fame! Hope you can find what you’re looking for. So that’s where I had to figure out, and I still, to be honest, haven’t completely I kind of have three tracks now where I should have one.

[00:50:42] I have a, I’m on a really tight budget. I have some budget and I don’t care about budget tracks at the school of podcasting. And in reality, that should be one. And I’m like, nah, I just want to help everybody. So that’s part of it. But the other thing that I’ve seen just destroy podcasters is someone will be like, oh my goodness, I have.

[00:51:02] You know, 200 downloads on my last episode. I’m like, way to go. Congratulations. I’m like, in my day, that’d be 10 classrooms. That’s a hallway and a half of people that could be watching Netflix or whatever, but they’re listening to you. And then somebody else in the same Facebook group goes, congratulations.

[00:51:18] I just went over 4 million and you just watched them go, I’m melting, you know? And I’m like, so comparison to others. Just keep focusing on your audience, because I’ve fallen victim to that where somebody will go by and I’m like, how are they getting clients when we… and they are like, hold on. Let’s go back and focus on our audience because that’s what, you know, makes things grow, but I’ve just seen it wreck so many podcasters because.

[00:51:43] I’m like, why are you looking, unless you’re looking at other podcast as an opportunity to cross promote or something like that, but if it’s starting to bring it down and ruin your attitude, then don’t do that.

[00:51:56] Jeff Sieh: That’s great advice.

[00:51:57] Conor Brown: I think that comparison really leads into this next thing, too, about, about podfade about getting down on yourself and you just kind of stop doing it because you’re not seeing the success that, know, you kind of formulated in, in your head, so many people get to that 10th episode, right? And they’ve lost that initial energy of, of starting something new.

[00:52:18] They’re two months into it and they’ve kind of lost the passion or the excitement when they started out. So, Dave. New podcasters. How can they avoid, you know, the pitfalls of, of pod fade and stopping production,

[00:52:32] Dave Jackson: Yeah, what people do is they will pick their podcast schedule and try to squeeze their life into it. And that, that doesn’t work. So every time I hear somebody go, I’m going to do a daily podcast, and in my head I’m going, no, you’re not. But some do. So what’s better to do is when you’re doing those first four or five episodes that you’re going to throw away, because it’s your rough draft you know, start a timer.

[00:52:56] Go to Toggle, I think it’s T O G G L dot com. You can get this free timer. And just start it, because it’s, you know, the time of the interview, the time of the editing, the writing of, you know, the blog post, and all that stuff. All of a sudden you get done, you’re like, wait a minute. That 15 minute podcast took me an hour.

[00:53:11] And then you ask yourself, do you have an hour or five a week to do a podcast? You’re like, no, I don’t have five hours a week to do a podcast. Okay, what about every other week? Yeah, I could do that. Okay, guess what? Congratulations. You’re doing a biweekly podcast. Because when you try to. When you can squeeze your podcast into your life, that will work, but when you try to squeeze your life into a podcast schedule, then you end up in divorce court and all sorts of other fun things that are really unpleasant.

[00:53:37] So, figure out, and there are things to do as well. Like, I just a show I do with Daniel J. Lewis is called The Future of Podcasting, and we’re doing it weekly. And I’m trying to squeeze a podcast into my life. And I just went to Daniel, I go, I can’t do this weekly. I can do it every other week. Is that okay?

[00:53:54] And he’s like, yeah, that’s fine. So you either adjust your schedule, adjust your length. Maybe instead of doing a 40 minute podcast, you do a 15 minute one. Things like that. But that’s, I see people trying to squeeze their life into their podcast instead of looking at their life and going, where can I squeeze in a podcast?

[00:54:11] Jeff Sieh: Once again, awesome advice. And Chris even echoes that saying, great advice. Podcasting is such a long game. It takes a certain type of creator. Not everyone can make a good podcast or have the patience. And Chris is over at Dealcasters and he does a lot of stuff over at Cast Ahead. He’s an amazing podcaster, live video.

[00:54:27] Producer, all this stuff, so make sure to check him out too. I have a couple more questions, but Dave, we’re out of time and I wanna have plenty of time for you to, to let people know where they can find out if they’re interested in podcasting, your shows, all the stuff that is Dave Jackson. Let people know what they can find you.

[00:54:43] Dave Jackson: Yeah, my main website is schoolofpodcasting. com, but as you heard, you know, if you stand next to me long enough, I will start another podcast. And so the only reason I have this, because I just kind of just urinated all over Linktree, I do have one of those sites. If you go to powerofpodcasting. com, that’s a list of a bunch of the shows that are still current in my book and consulting and the School of Podcasting.

[00:55:06] But primarily, if you want to reach me and check out my stuff at schoolofpodcasting. com.

[00:55:11] Jeff Sieh: Real quick, I wanted to ask, you mentioned on your Saturday show because a lot of things, one more thing that podcasters have to do is create that website, which you said is very, very important, and you had an affiliate code for a really great podcasting website creation. What is that? Can you give that to

[00:55:26] Dave Jackson: Yeah trypodpage. com is my affiliate link to pod page. And if you’re like, Oh, I don’t want to, you know, well, okay. Learnpodpage. com is where you can have, it’s a free course. And that’s something that you know, you can get from my book. I have a course. On a free piece of software, it’s, it’s eventually you have to pay for it, but I, all through that course, it’s here’s my affiliate link.

[00:55:47] If you’re getting something out of this course, you know, click here when you go to buy it and I’m not going to retire on that money, but it’s a constant stream of income. So yeah, TripodPage and LearnPodPage. com.

[00:55:58] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Thanks for that. And Connor Brown, where can people find out about the amazing, unsinkable Connor Brown?

[00:56:04] Conor Brown: the unsinkable Connor Brown. You can go to www. opinion. com if you’re looking to plan a Disney Universal cruise vacation, I’m there for you. You can learn all about me, www. opinion. com and at www. opinion across the social universe.

[00:56:19] Jeff Sieh: That is so awesome. Once again, I want to thank our sponsor of the show Ecamm. You can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive. com ecamm. Thank you to all of you guys who are watching, Chris Stone and listening, Dave Canyon, Lou Mongiello. We had John Piper and some, you know, Colin Lopezko was here with us as well.

[00:56:38] So, thank you guys for watching. We wouldn’t be able to do the show without you. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Thank you, Dave, so much. Bye now.

[00:56:46] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:56:48] Jeff Sieh: They can’t hear us and this is going to run just for a little second. Okay, a few seconds of this in broadcast and.