With ad revenue from podcasting expected to double to $2 billion this year, we invited Colin Gray from The Podcast Host and Alitu App to share actionable strategies for starting and growing a successful podcast.

How do you launch a stellar show and stick with it? Consistently provide value with each episode? Keep audiences engaged and wanting more? TUNE IN to this week’s Social Media News Live to find out!


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to another edition of Social Media News Live so excited that you guys are here with us today. We have got a incredible show for you. We’ve been, we’ve kind of been on this podcasting kick since we’ve been at podcast movement. We hung out with Ecamm at, at, at their booth down there.

[00:00:18] Colin was one of our guests who was able to pop on the show, but, you know, he was so stink and smart. We needed to have him on for like a full show. Get you guys to ask him questions. So as we’re going along today, feel free down below to ask your questions, uh, of Colin, because this is just like, I always say it’s like free consulting cuz when we get these awesome guests on here, like Colin, where you can ask questions, like this is really the stuff that you need to, to dive into.

[00:00:43] So, uh, make sure you ask those questions also, if you know somebody who’s like, you know, I’m starting a podcast or my podcast really isn’t the way I want it to be. And I need to kind of fix some things. This is the show for them. So make sure you mention them down below, call them into the show. Even if they can’t watch it live, they can come back and watch the replay.

[00:01:00] And we’re always in there in the comments and trying to, uh, talk to you that way. So, uh, Grace, Duffy, how are you doing this morning? I am

[00:01:07] Grace Duffy: doing great. Are we have we launched the Amazon yet? Not

[00:01:11] Jeff Sieh: yet, right. Okay. It, it should be going so we’ll see what happens. So, um, well, no, no.

[00:01:15] Grace Duffy: We’ve been having some Amazon difficulties.

[00:01:17] Oh, look, it’s Jim Jim fuse from fusion marketing. He says, hello

[00:01:21] Jeff Sieh: folks. Yes. He was actually also on the, uh, the show that we did from Ecamm booth. I pulled in all my friends that could, I could, I could see out in the audience and Jim was, uh, kind enough to go. Um, yeah, but make sure you ask your questions below.

[00:01:33] I’m gonna go ahead and hit, go on the podcast. And, uh, we will get started. Oh, our friend Brian Farrell is here too. So I wanna say, uh, he’s in Barcelona. So it is evening there. Uh, thank you, Brian, for always popping in. So I’m gonna hit go get your questions ready, cuz this is gonna be an awesome show. Yes.

[00:01:54] Hello folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not

[00:01:58] Grace Duffy: and I’m Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on the world of social media and more on today’s show. We have the brilliant Colin gray joining us again. Last time was a podcast movement and this time we’re all in our various home studios home offices.

[00:02:16] Last time we spoke, we covered his thoughts on very briefly covered his thoughts on podcasting networks, live video, podcasts, and community. And this is all fresh from the conference floor, fresh from the sessions. So we’ve invited him back today to discuss actionable strategies on how to start rock and keep growing your own successful podcast.

[00:02:36] We’re gonna talk about staying consistent and staying compelling monetization and SEO.

[00:02:42] Jeff Sieh: Colin, how are you doing today? My friend. Oh, and we just lost him. Oh my God. Oh my God. Grace, you scared him away with your long intro. Oh, we need to

[00:02:50] Grace Duffy: cut my intros. There he is. Exactly.

[00:02:53] Jeff Sieh: So, uh, Grace scared you away coed with that long intro, but I wanna, well, if you,

[00:02:58] Grace Duffy: if you wanna know his thoughts on live video podcasting, there it is guys.

[00:03:01] He’s out. He’s out. No,

[00:03:04] Colin Gray: everything just locked up and it was the funniest, uh, facial expressions from both of you. I have to say, I just went entirely, uh, screen freeze and I was like, it’s

[00:03:13] Jeff Sieh: always, it always happens that way. Doesn’t it? Yeah. So, uh, yeah. So Jim, I don’t know what’s going on lately with Amazon.

[00:03:20] I’m having trouble in there. I may just have to reboot it. So thanks for Jim was saying we’re not showing on Amazon. Not sure we’re getting an error right now, but, um, Colin, I wanted to ask you cuz I will push this to Amazon later, but what is, um, what is the mic like you’re using, I’m gonna go full screen on you and like your setup, because we didn’t really get into that when we were at podcast.

[00:03:39] Colin Gray: Yeah, I have to, I’ve tried a load of mics over the years. I remember starting out with my first, um, I had the Excel in nine 90. That was my first like proper good Mike back in the day. Mm-hmm it’s still a great mic. Really good value. Actually you get the on Amazon, um, maybe 80, 80 pounds, about a hundred dollars ish.

[00:03:57] Uh, these days I’m a big road fan. Actually, this is a road podcaster in front of me and we’ve got right over there. I’ve got the, uh, the roader. Oh, I never, their names are I like road, but their names are terrible. The road. Is it the roader? That’s the name of the, I don’t, you know, you know, the little mixing board.

[00:04:14] Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the roader pro that’s the one, um, and a couple of road protesters. See, they’re all too similar. The, the protester makes rather than the podcaster makes, so yeah, I’ve got a few of them in the office here. Really good quality. Um, obviously the USB one, just so simple to work with too. So yeah, I love it.

[00:04:33] Jeff Sieh: Very very cool. So yeah, I just wanted to give, cuz everybody always wants to know what’s Mike, is he on what’s he doing? Yeah. Especially when podcasters, uh, come up. So, yeah. Um, so if you guys don’t know Colin, let me give you another introduction. I, Grace kind of talked to him a little bit, but he is a podcaster.

[00:04:47] He’s an international speaker. He’s a PhD. And the CEO and the founder of the podcast host a huge audio video and written resource on how to create a successful show and all to a podcast maker tool designed to help you create your podcast in the easiest way possible. Colin started in astrophysics before realizing how much Matthew had to do.

[00:05:10] Uh, it turns out podcast requires less math and more interesting puzzle. So he’s been podcasting since, uh, 2007. He’s one of the old school podcasters, and he aims to help everyone to get their voice heard to. Uh, and one of his many shows is the pod craft podcast, which teaches the, uh, entire art of podcasting from launching your own show and creating a legions of fans.

[00:05:33] And he’s also, uh, on YouTube at the podcast host. And so, you know, all the good tutorials over there, it’s really amazing. And so you wanna check him. Everywhere on all the socials because, um, he is a deep dive into podcasting. If you’re ever struggling with that or wanna learn more, uh, he’s your man.

[00:05:52] Grace Duffy: Absolutely. So Colin, tell us about oo, and I’m forgive me if I’m saying it incorrectly, but first I wanna know where the name comes from, but then also what does it do? How do we find it? Give us the whole, give us the whole elevator pitch on, on this service, because I found your demo. It was really cool, but I want you, I want you to explain it to our audience.

[00:06:12] Colin Gray: Yeah. It was designed as the tool to just make podcasting as easy as possible. It was, you know, it, the problem we always got, the question we always got from our readers on our site, years back was always, how do I make editing? Easier people hate editing. well, there, there are a few small number of masochists that quite like editing, but most people don’t like it.

[00:06:32] Um, so we built a tool that could do, uh, a lot of the automation there. It did a lot. All the audio cleanup, uh, adds in your music and your fades, it pieces all the parts together. It has a podcast specific audio editing tool. So it doesn’t have all the audio engineering stuff that you don’t need that. Pops up in audacity and addition and stuff like that.

[00:06:50] So that was the idea initially. And then now we’ve added in call recording solar recording and hosting as well, actually. So the idea is that it’s just one place to go to make your podcast an easiest way.

[00:07:02] Jeff Sieh: Very very cool. Yeah. So if you haven’t checked that out, you need to do that because that is a, that’s a lot of hangup, I think for a lot of people is like, yeah, just getting started.

[00:07:10] The tech can seem overwhelming at first and I’ve listened to a lot of Collins tutorials and he really does break it down. Uh, make it easy for you to understand, because. If you’re like me, you need that. Cuz you’re gimme a little simple. So, uh, it’s really, really great. Um, that’s the only reason I did

[00:07:25] Colin Gray: it. I needed to

[00:07:26] Jeff Sieh: that’s right.

[00:07:27] So something else that is very easy to use is our sponsor of the show, which is our friends over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm. Uh, they are actually going to be doing something very, very cool. It is called, um, Leap into, uh, podcasting and they, they they’re changing it over from Leap into life, to this Leap into podcasting this year.

[00:07:49] And it’s a two day interactive virtual summit, completely focused on helping you take the Leap into video podcasting and it’s got amazing lineup of expert speakers. Uh, Grace is gonna be there. I’m gonna be there. I think. Co are you speaking there too? Colin, are you doing a. I am indeed. Yes. Yes. That’s what I thought.

[00:08:05] Yeah. So, um, Colin, what’s your session

[00:08:07] Grace Duffy: gonna be on?

[00:08:08] Colin Gray: Yeah, I’m all about, uh, nine ways to cut the time it takes to ship your show. So just how to podcast quicker. I’m gonna have

[00:08:14] Jeff Sieh: to listen to that one, cuz I’m all about getting it quicker. So, but it’s gonna be talking about software and you know, hardware workflows, like Colin was saying advertising best practices, all this stuff.

[00:08:24] Make sure you guys go to Leap into podcasting.com. It’s free. You just need to sign up to it. Uh, just go there to Leap into podcasting and register there. Thank you for our friends over at Ecamm. So, um, yeah, let’s see here. Um, let’s see here. David says that would be a great help as well. Yeah. So you need to go to Leap into podcasting because uh, it’s gonna be an amazing, amazing thing.

[00:08:47] So let’s go ahead and stock talk about, you know, podcasting. That’s what you guys are here for. I wanna know in the comments, let us know in the comments down below wherever you’re watching, from what makes you hit subscribe on a podcast? What is it about a podcast that once that makes you, is it the, is it the artwork you’re like, oh, I’m gonna watch this show forever.

[00:09:06] And you click on that. What is it that makes you, you click to subscribe? You have to listen to 10 shows before you hit subscribe or do you listen to one and then subscribe. I’d love to know what makes you hit subscribe on the, on a podcast. I’m sure Colin would two cuz that’s kind of his business. Um, but yeah, so that’s what we’re gonna be talking about this first section.

[00:09:25] So go ahead Grace and take us away.

[00:09:27] Grace Duffy: Absolutely. So we’re gonna just dive right in here and talk about building a better podcast. So we focused a lot the last couple weeks, as Jeff mentioned on podcasting. And we’ve talked a lot about the why, like, why would you use this for driving leads in business, which we’ll talk a little bit about more about later, uh, expand using it to expand your brand.

[00:09:44] But we are brought call in here to talk about the, how, how do you launch a stellar podcast that keeps people coming back and keeps you, you know, something that you can stick with. We’re also gonna talk about how you can consistently provide value with each episode. And then we’re also gonna talk about how to make each episode compelling.

[00:10:04] So in a interview that you did earlier this year, Colin, you talked about this, your secret sauce, the number one ingredient required for podcasting success, and that is structure. And I’d love for you to give us an introduction into what the structure is, I believe. Uh, and the show that I was listening to you, you introduced it as a four-part structure, but.

[00:10:28] Like, I’ll let you take it away.

[00:10:30] Colin Gray: Yeah, sure. I mean, I it’s I structure is always a secret weapon, I think for a bunch of different reasons. It, it helps with planning. It helps with your kind of mental stress in creating a podcast in the first place, because you know, there’s nothing worse than starting with a blank page.

[00:10:47] Everyone knows that, like you, you try and sit down and start writing a script or a plan or anything. And if it’s a blank page, it’s just so difficult to get started. Um, and you can do it. No doubt, cuz you’ve done it many times before, but it makes it so much easier. If you have a structure to work within.

[00:11:03] But then equally, I think it makes for much better content for listeners as well. It makes for more compelling content, more engaging content, often more focused content, like one of the biggest killers of podcasts or biggest killers of subscriptions. It’s one of the biggest reasons people will unsubscribe from your show is if it’s just too full of waffle, there’s just too many divergences and too many, um, gone off often tangents.

[00:11:26] And you know, that can be good sometimes, but, uh, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s not good in many ways. Like if you can keep it on focus, you’re doing much better. So can you guys hear me? All

[00:11:39] Jeff Sieh: right. I’m just you’re. You’re good. Yeah. You’re good. You’re good. Can you hear us? You’re good. Oh, he went away again. Oh, disappeared.

[00:11:47] Grace Duffy: Hmm. This is, this is what happens. Like when you have professionals on it’s it’s like we we’re on the show and then it’s just like PO it happens to us all the time. Like locked up again. Yeah, no, we’re

[00:11:59] Colin Gray: good. I dunno. What’s going on here? My connection’s usually rock solid.

[00:12:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So it’s, it’s fine because you know what, it’s amazing.

[00:12:04] It’s live video. We’ve had things, uh, worse, but, uh, um, and can

[00:12:09] Grace Duffy: edit. Here’s a beautiful thing. This beautiful thing about this is you can edit the, you can edit the audio, right? So when this goes out as a podcast, it’ll be, Ugh, flawless.

[00:12:17] Jeff Sieh: Don’t worry fine. So here I wanna lose me. So, uh, and I’m gonna follow up with that question a little bit, but I wanted to bring up, uh, when we talked about what makes people subscribe.

[00:12:25] Cause I think this kind of leads into what you were exactly talking about. Um, David says he, what makes him subscribe is quality content and engagement. Um, and then Gary says, uh, he’s a lifelong learner. If I feel I am learning something, I hit subscribe. So, um, one of the things, you know, you talked about your formula and your structure and making sure.

[00:12:49] You don’t waffle and I thought you meant waffles with like maple syrup, but then I realized what you’re talking about. Um, another food reference. what, what, um, does this, does this formula that you’re talking about? Does it work for all types of podcasts, like storytelling versus business or interviews?

[00:13:05] Like, does it work for all those? Yes.

[00:13:07] Colin Gray: Yeah. So that’s always the biggest question it’s around. I often cut it into four parts. I’ve got the introduction, you’ve got the theory where you actually teach the thing you’re talking about. Then you’ve got the case study. It’s tell a story about that theory.

[00:13:20] give some examples about how it works. And then the final one is the tasks and the takeaways. So I actually give people to something to do with that information. I think that’s one of the parts that so many people miss and that works excellent for teaching shows. But like you say, what about if your entertainment, what about if your news?

[00:13:38] I think it still works really well because I think it, it gives you something, again, it gives you something to plan within. So if you’re designing a 30 minute, 60 minute comedy show, maybe you want to have something like, a audience joke over the week where you read someone that’s been sent in and then maybe a quickfire quiz after that.

[00:13:56] and then you can fill in those gaps, and then give some the, the audience. Something to expect something to look forward to. You always find people with their favorite segments. I’m looking forward to the audience joke of the week, cuz it’s the funniest part or something. right. and it’s or a new show.

[00:14:14] Like even if you cut a new show down into, you pick one story to go deep on and then you do five minutes of quickfire headlines, and then you have an audience take, take away of the week. Like here’s one new story. You can do something with afterwards having a structure like that. It, again, it gives the audience of familiarity to get to know it.

[00:14:32] They get used to it, they build a habit around it and it gives you a structure within which to build. Um, and the cool thing, like one thing I love about it is the repurpose ability of it all as well. Like do you want to jump into that just now as well? Yeah, go ahead.

[00:14:44] Jeff Sieh: Go ahead. That’d be

[00:14:44] Colin Gray: great. Yeah, of course.

[00:14:45] The it’s the fact that you can then take it. So with my four part structure with the teaching, for example, I often cut that. And I’ll publish the introduction on its own. And then I’ll publish the theory part on its own and I’ll publish the story on its own. And then I’ll publish the takeaways on its own.

[00:15:01] And if you talk it the right way, you speak it the right way, I should say. Um, and you can do that. You can build a habit around that really easily. Those four things can stand alone quite easily and they then become my video material. So I put the whole thing out as a podcast, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever it is, but then you can have a five or a 10 minute, you know, introduction to a topic, uh, on video and then a 20 minute theory part on video that goes in deep.

[00:15:26] And then you’ve got a separate video, which is the story and examples about how this thing works. And that works really nicely on YouTube or on social as an Instagram real or something like that as a way to repurpose that podcast in a way that’s not just copy and paste from the podcast, but it’s kinda smartly repurposing it so that it more suits that video or social medium.

[00:15:45] So I love how you can do that. And you can do that with any of those formats like that, that news breakup, like the going deep in the top story, you could publish that in its own on Instagram reals, and then take the quick fire headlines and put that on YouTube. And, you know, so you can take that podcast, break it up, and it’s all becomes your web of content that, you know, captures people in and, and brings them into your.

[00:16:05] Jeff Sieh: So I’m gonna, that brought a question that I wanted to bring up when you were talking about the repurposing and doing this new stories and stuff and, and Grace and I had some experience back with, uh, another client that we were working with, um, at a, at the time where we would do Alexa briefs. Is that something that you have experiments with at all?

[00:16:22] Because that to me would seem like a great place to repurpose content for a

[00:16:26] Colin Gray: podcast. A great question. And it’s not someone I’ve played with, but it’s someone I keep thinking about actually. Um, I have you tried it at all. Like it’s not something I’ve played with, but I think it would work really well.

[00:16:36] Grace Duffy: Yes.

[00:16:36] It was something that I built at our, at the last company we worked at together, I built it. And I’ll just say that if I can do it, you can do it.

[00:16:47] The hardest part was for me, was learning how to edit the audio, which I learned how to do fairly quickly. But of course you are a pro at, but then getting it loaded and getting it. I, I think I used Lipson. That was the product we were using at the time to schedule it. So you, I would just schedule it out with the rest of like the same way you would a podcast.

[00:17:04] So, yeah. Excellent. I do it without you as well.

[00:17:07] Jeff Sieh: So, um, really quickly I wanna bring up some, uh, we have another OG podcaster in, in the, uh, room and his, his avatar doesn’t come through. I don’t know if I blocked him or what, but it’s Louman jealousy. Good morning. Grace. Jeff from Lou. Um, he is, uh, a, one of the, uh, OG podcasters.

[00:17:21] He probably started. Right around the same time as Colin. I mean, you guys have been doing it forever. Oh yeah. I’ve seen Lu

[00:17:26] Colin Gray: run for a

[00:17:27] Jeff Sieh: long time. Yeah, absolutely. And then Chris stone says amazing advice, huge fan of the podcast. So valuable content, uh, on all fronts. So thanks Chris watching over on LinkedIn.

[00:17:37] So one of the things that I know Lou is a great example of, and you as well is, um, you know, consistency and it’s consistency is hard. Like if you’ve done this for a while, it’s easy to get out out of being consistent, like one podcast. And you’re like, ah, you know what? I don’t need to do another one. You know?

[00:17:55] And it kind of like starts snowballs. And we saw a boom in 20, 20 and two 20 in 2021. And, you know, podcast audiences diversified, you know, then people came, went back to work and life. And a lot of these podcasters who started during the pandemic kinda lost enthusiasm. And they, now that they’re kind of been abandoned and now are inactive mm-hmm

[00:18:14] So how do we stay motivated Colin and consistent with our podcasting. .

[00:18:19] Colin Gray: Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s two, two kinda key parts to this. And I think one of them, we can talk about both, but one of them, the first one I think you guys are doing really well. We talked about this very briefly before we came on, but it’s the people that I see doing podcasting most effectively for the longest are ones that have built an absolute rock, solid habit out of when and where they record every single week.

[00:18:43] Whether it’s, you know, I record at 10:00 AM on Monday mornings, every single week in this one place. And my gear is always set up or whether it is like I do a batch recording of four episodes, um, every first, Monday of the month and I spend the whole day doing it. And that just goes out like clockwork. I think that is almost the best way to do it.

[00:19:02] And I think a lot of people like you guys have got a live broadcast. That’s a great way to do it as well, commit to doing it live. Like, do you find, I presume that you find that makes you stick to it, right? Does. Yeah.

[00:19:12] Grace Duffy: yes. Peer

[00:19:14] Jeff Sieh: pressure does wonder she’ll yell at me. If I don’t it’s like Jeff, we gotta get a host.

[00:19:17] Come on, come on. We gotta get a yes, come on. And so I don’t wanna disappoint Grace, so that’s

[00:19:20] Colin Gray: exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think that’s a big part of it’s that habit and people fight against it because they say, well, I can’t find a time that’s that suits me every single week. You know, my weeks change it’s inconsistent, but I think, and honestly, I think that’s an excuse.

[00:19:36] I think if it’s important to you, you need to find that time. You need to, you can always find the time to do something that’s important to you if you put a priority on it. So I think that’s the big one for sure. The other side’s audience though. I think, yeah, go ahead. You were gonna

[00:19:49] Jeff Sieh: jump into no, go ahead.

[00:19:50] No, you go about your

[00:19:51] Colin Gray: audience. Cool. The, because that’s the thing that keeps me motivated. Like, even if I’ve got my routine, I’m recording at, you know, 10:00 AM and a Monday, every single week, you still can feel that you get to that 10:00 AM and you’re like, oh, maybe I should do something else. But then what keeps me going often is making sure that on a regular basis, I’m reaching out to the people that listen, even if there’s only a few people interacting, it’s those audience members that keep me going.

[00:20:16] Um, and you can be really constructive about it as well. Like for example, I think a lot of people ask for feedback from their audience, but they’re very general about it. They’re like, oh, so at the end of every episode, they’re like, get in touch, send me a tweet on Twitter, send me an email to say what you want to hear next.

[00:20:31] Um, and they leave it at that and they get nothing back and they’re like, oh, nobody’s listening. But as soon as. They say, instead of just give me some feedback on Twitter, instead they say, let’s say it’s a car show. They say, right. What, uh, nineties car would you love to have in your garage right now? Or, um, you know, what’s the Mo what’s the new car that you’re most excited about right now.

[00:20:53] Something really specific as soon as they do that, even if you’ve only got 50 listeners, like half of them will get in touch because you’ve spurred ideas in their heads, something very specific and give them very specific place to put it as well, whether it’s a, a tweet or whether it’s an email or whether it’s a voicemail, that specificity is so important.

[00:21:12] I think to get in that feedback. And to me, that is one of the biggest drivers of motivation and consistency.

[00:21:18] Jeff Sieh: That’s great advice. That is really great advice. Uh, speaking of, you know, asking your audience, we have some great questions from our audience, and this is, uh, from calming the chaos, which is a great name.

[00:21:29] I think that we all need sometimes. Um, but what about my 10 to five job? So like, you know, how do you, you know, be consistent if you’ve got this job and you’ve got a family and your kids. Yeah. I mean, we have the luxury that this is kind of our job and that we’ve done this for such a long time. We’ve got systems in place, but like if you’re getting started and you want to do this, what do you tell those?

[00:21:50] Yeah.

[00:21:50] Colin Gray: Yeah. I mean, it is tough. I won’t lie. It’s not tough. I won’t say it’s not tough, but I think it’s still about that routine. It’s still about Tuesday evening. When you get home, you have your dinner, you know, that you’re always gonna cook down with the family. You’re gonna, um, you know, get the kids, sat down with some books and then you’re gonna, uh, start recording at seven 30 on that Tuesday evening.

[00:22:09] I think it’s still possible, um, to set a routine around it that way. And sometimes you’ll get derailed. Don’t like beat yourself up about that, but still, if you have that average time that you try to sit down and record every single week, I think that’s still a big help.

[00:22:25] Jeff Sieh: It’s great advice.

[00:22:27] Grace Duffy: And I think it’s different for us because we’re live.

[00:22:29] So we have this set live time, but we met a lot of podcasters and you know, many podcasters that batch content. So there’s one guy. What is his show beyond the rut where he does, he was telling me he’s local to me. And he was telling me that he does like eight episodes in one Sunday cuz he’s and he just backs him up.

[00:22:46] And it’s very difficult. It’s very hard. But that’s what he does because he has, he has a nine to five and a family. So yeah, there’s a

[00:22:53] Jeff Sieh: lot of ways. I, I want to answer this question really quickly before we, we move on to, to Grace. I know you had a question about podcasts movement, but uh, calming the chaos.

[00:23:01] Thank you. I’m a licensed mental health counselor. Whenever I do a live Restream very people show, a few people show up, um, that is not uncommon. And we have been there. Everybody has started with one, uh, subscriber. And so I would just continue to be consistent. Um, a couple of things that I we’ve done before in the past, when I first started, I would have plants.

[00:23:22] I would like. And magic, you know, you have plants in the audience. I would have people sit like actual plants, not like to a Fern. No, no, not a Fern. Um, I would actually have people in the audience that I would, I would bring in, like, I’d say Grace come to my show on Friday. And, and can you ask this question?

[00:23:39] And so I would have people come in and do that, not, not Fe, uh, Grace, but, uh, sorry. I’m

[00:23:44] Grace Duffy: just picturing you talking to a Fern

[00:23:46] Jeff Sieh: right now, which I do. So it makes them grow better. But anyway, um, don’t be discouraged, calming the chaos. Um, we, you know, it goes up and down, keep being consistent and have those, you know, when you do have somebody on there, make sure you talk to them and answer their question, but it does take time and it gets harder.

[00:24:02] It’s harder than it used to be with all the algorithms, but. I would be consistent. What would you say, Colin? Um,

[00:24:08] Colin Gray: would somebody start with that? I agree. Yeah. I, I mean, it’s, I think it’s a bit about context as well as in, um, very few. I wonder how many, very few is. Like, even if, if I went along and did a talk back when I was starting my content and some 10 people turned up in a, a real room, you’d have 10 actual real people in front of me, that would actually be really cool.

[00:24:26] But somehow online, 10 doesn’t seem like very much. And we have so many podcasters come along and say, I’ve only got a hundred or 200 people listening, but again, like that’s a lot of people imagine that many people sitting in front of you listening to you every single week. So I think there’s always a bit about context as well, but I, I totally think you’re right.

[00:24:43] Like, it’s, it is consistency it’s about involving those people in the show so that they have a really good, a really good time and motivation to turn up to the next one. So you’re building that loyalty every single time. So yeah. Yeah. Something around.

[00:24:56] Jeff Sieh: And we will for Chris stone brought up, he talking to plants next on Social Media News Live.

[00:25:01] We will do that show, especially for you, Chris. We may only have one viewer, but it’ll be

[00:25:05] Grace Duffy: you. I will say calming the chaos. That one, you always do it for the people, the replay audience. So you do it for the audience that’s there. So you do capture a lot of people that watch replay because not everyone can tune in at this time something’s going on, but they catch the replay.

[00:25:19] Your Facebook or LinkedIn shows it up later. So that’s another, um, audience that you’d be tapping into. And also, I love inviting guests, obviously Jeff and I have done a show together before it was lots of fun, but we always have a guest because regardless you have your guest to talk to mm-hmm

[00:25:34] Jeff Sieh: and coming, she goes, I would love 10.

[00:25:37] I get two to four, those two to four, those can grow, but treat those two to four, like. And, and it makes a huge difference. And so, uh, that’s great that you have that because I would do the same time every week. So they know what time to show up because the algorithms don’t always push it out anymore. But if they know they’ll come looking for you.

[00:25:53] So, uh, congratulations the suit to four, that’s a start. A lot of people don’t even have that. So continue doing what you’re doing. So

[00:25:59] Grace Duffy: Jeff is over here, still talking to plants.

[00:26:01] Jeff Sieh: I talk to plants or to myself, you know, it does matter, whatever, whatever will listen. So

[00:26:07] Grace Duffy: okay back to our guests. So at podcast movement, Colin, you and I talked quite a bit about planning our show in seasons and that concept of, of doing, uh, a set season.

[00:26:19] And then the next one, the next one, and keeping this is a way of keeping content fresh. Do you think this is also something that helps make content compelling and keeps listeners loyal by doing these

[00:26:29] Colin Gray: seasons? I think actually that’s the biggest thing about it. I think, I think I, I often teach people seasons in the first place because it sort of makes planning so much easier, but the biggest benefits actually for the listener, there’s, it’s the fact that it’s so much more organized and each episode leads into the next, like talking to Kevin, the chaos problem there.

[00:26:50] Like, um, if you want to try and build. More listeners, more loyal people you want to try and make them turn up every single week, because that’s the only way it grows. I remember running a live event years ago where we used to get five or 10 people every week, but it was always different five or 10 people.

[00:27:07] So it never grew mm-hmm and we kind of realized that we weren’t building enough loyalty around it. And I think that’s what seasons helps with so much because you plan out a season of say 12 episodes. Every episode builds on the previous one. So every time the person turns up for the next episode, they’ve learned a bit in the previous one and the next one builds on that.

[00:27:25] It’s advancing the topic. It’s something that’s pushing them forward, giving them progress. And there’s a huge amount of. Uh, huge amount of power in that for building habit and loyalty to listen to you every single week, because the, you know, the average podcast structure is that you talk about something different every single week.

[00:27:42] You’ve got a brand new topic every single week, and it can be a different level, like a, a beginner subject one week and a, an advanced subject the next week. It’s like, can you imagine if you turned up at college to learn, uh, physics, and then, you know, the first lesson was, uh, adding up one and two, and then the next lesson was advanced quantum mechanics and then the next lesson was, you know, like, um, two times table.

[00:28:05] And then it was, uh, I dunno, string theory, but I wouldn’t make any sense. It’s just not how, you know, you breed success in people who want to get better or advance. So seasons help you by putting all industry, right. Structure, people follow along. They, they progress and advance every single episode. And there’s a huge power as well in the fact that it’s all organized.

[00:28:28] Like when people find you a hundred episodes in. They look back at your Sieh, your series, your seasons mm-hmm . Um, and they can actually navigate them so much more easily. They can pick out, you know, season three, you covered, um, X topic and they think, oh, that really suits me right now. I’ll start at the start of that.

[00:28:45] Listen to those. And it really helps people start to navigate through what you’ve done already get into your content and really get to know you in a, in an easy.

[00:28:55] Jeff Sieh: That is some great advice. In fact, love that. So I wouldn’t ask you guys in the audience, what we kind of do it subconsciously, like we’ve done a lot of podcasting before, like we had Janet, Maureen, she kind of touched on her podcast last week and I know Colin and I have spoken at her event before, which is awesome.

[00:29:09] And we, I think we met it the first time, but, um, would you like us to do seasons? Like, would you like us to do okay. We’re gonna do a month of podcasting. Okay. Next we’re gonna do a month of TikTok. Next. We’re gonna do a bunch of content creation. Would that be something you guys would want us to do or not?

[00:29:25] Cuz we, you know, a lot of times we, we kind of hit on what the news is, what kind of things are breaking. And then we talk about that, but would seasons be something that you guys would like let us know down below in the comments, wherever you’re you’re are watching or do you like the craziness? That is our live show, which is kind of random sometimes um, so Colin, I wanna know.

[00:29:44] And we kinda asked this a little bit earlier of the audience, but I wanna know what you think, like what makes. Someone listened to a podcast in all your years of experience, what makes a pod, a podcast like binge worthy and irresistible?

[00:29:59] Colin Gray: I mean, not to bang on about it, but I think seasons are a big part of it.

[00:30:03] So I won’t, I won’t go into it anymore, but I think that does make it binge worthy because they find this like seven, eight episode CDs, which like you listen to one and you just have to go through them all, cuz they’re covering that whole topic the other way that they make it. I think the other way you can make a podcast irresistible is actually just be by being so much more specific about what you help with.

[00:30:25] I think that’s what a lot of podcasts fit fall down on. Like you’re looking through the, we get this picture all the time. Like somebody gets in touch and says, right, I’m thinking about starting this podcast. It’s gonna be life advice, learning from. A very realm of humanity and bringing life advice to, to improve the way that you live and your wealth, health, and happiness.

[00:30:48] What do you think? And I’m like, No, too much, too much. Like, I dunno who this is for. No, one’s gonna listen. Cause it’s so general. Um, the thing that makes a podcast irresistible to me to listen to is if I read it and I think, oh, that’s me, that’s the exact problem I have. And this person has just described me exactly the problem that I’m having.

[00:31:10] And they’ve told me they’ve got a solution. This is what they’re gonna teach. This is what they’re gonna cover. That’s what makes me listen. Irresistibly to a podcast. I think, I mean, what, what do you think does that, does that ring true? So for

[00:31:21] Jeff Sieh: me, absolutely. Yeah. So one of my favorite podcasts is, uh, business wars by wonder, and they kind of do the same thing that you’re talking about.

[00:31:29] They’re in seasons, like they’re gonna be talking about, you know, uh, Netflix versus HBO and they’re gonna do X amount of, it’s usually six to eight episodes about that. Um, and it’s storytelling podcasts, and they have that in there. And so I find that irresistible. So like I binge whenever I’m, that’s why I love road trips is because I love to binge those stories and learn something from there.

[00:31:49] So I, I think that, you know, one it’s seasonal, cuz you can skip around, like if you don’t wanna know about like, um, you know, you know, um, what is it Lululemon, how they started? Like, I mean, I don’t care about that, but you know, but I mean I did, I listened to it just to say, but um, but you know, sometimes those things, you know, you could skip over, but I think it’s a great point.

[00:32:10] those binge worthy things, or if I wanna learn something like, uh, the deal casters, Chris stone and Jim fuse. Yep. I am all about learning about how to do Amazon influencing, you know, right now. And, uh, I listen and watch their show because they talk about that and they give great advice on that. So, um, that it’s very specific because it’s something I wanna learn.

[00:32:28] You know, Eric Fisher, our friend, um, does beyond the to-do list, which is all about productivity. If I’m like at the beginning of the year, man, I, I binge all his podcasts and listen to Todd Henry and John AK and all those people over there. So I’m, I’m all, I think you’re you’re right on point and thinking of ways that we can implement that in our own podcast.

[00:32:44] I think is key. So sorry I got on my soapbox. What do you think Grace?

[00:32:49] Grace Duffy: I, well, I was gonna ask Colin what his favorite podcasts are right now, but that might that might limit so we can give him a moment to think about it. So right now my favorites are like, you know, just, I I’m trying to slim down my news diet.

[00:33:01] And so like, I just listen to like, NPRs like today, uh, you know, just what you need to know today. Like just one new story. They focus on that. And then the other one that I’ve been really into is this it’s this group that takes a part. And I, I need, I don’t remember the name of it, but they take movies and they’re, they’re all like therapists and psychologists and they break down all the like mental disorders in the, that are, they just played in this movie.

[00:33:26] So, oh my gosh, I need, I’m gonna get my phone and figure out what the name of this was because like that. Yeah, it it’s pretty funny. So there you go. There’s a, there’s a snapshot into my life. so Jeff is over there wearing Lulu lemon, talking to plants and I’m like,

[00:33:40] Jeff Sieh: that’s why you don’t charact. You don’t see the full shot here.

[00:33:44] So

[00:33:46] Grace Duffy: Colin, what podcast are you into these

[00:33:48] Colin Gray: days? Like I had to do, I got my phone up there just to look at what my last playlist was. And, uh, I actually, I just discovered a couple of months ago, a show, a UK show called the rest is politics. I’m a bit of a, a political, um, Imus. Like I, I’ve never really followed that stuff in my younger years, but I feel like I want to know more about it now.

[00:34:08] And this show is really good. It’s, it’s just, like I said, as in they describe it as, you know, they cover. Not everything, not all of the news, but they pick out two or three stories and they go in depth and explain them from the bottom up. So that’s the problem they’re solving. That’s me. Like they explain it for people that don’t really know the background.

[00:34:25] Um, so that totally resonated with me. So that’s an example. And I feel as I love, uh, business words, like you said, Jeff mm-hmm and acquired actually is a really nice one. Acquired is a very similar one, but it takes one business and breaks it down over two or three hours. Um, and similarly that solves a problem for me in that I saw it and I wanted to learn more about how.

[00:34:46] Businesses work, like strategy behind them, that kinda stuff, like how did Amazon get to where it is now? And they do that. They break it right down from my kind Sical point of view. So that really helped me in many ways. Yeah. That’s, that’s just a few

[00:34:57] Jeff Sieh: there and I, it’s interesting. I think it also that we listen to podcasts based on our mood.

[00:35:01] Like I listen to when I go out, my walk every day is, um, uh, cuz he has a huge backlog of episodes is uh, Walt Disney world radio by Luman, jello, just cause I like Disney stuff and it makes me happy listening to it and you know, mm-hmm and I know him and he’s a friend and so I like to listen to that and that.

[00:35:18] Uh, something that just, I, I do every day on my walk. So I think there’s, we have different moods. Like, what are, do we wanna relax? Let’s listen to this podcast. Do we wanna learn something? We’ll listen to this podcast. It’s kind of like TV watching anymore. It’s like, what are you wanting to do? What do you wanna binge?

[00:35:31] So very, very interesting. Yeah. All right. So we’ve got our favorite podcast. We are just going crazy on the show, but go, go Grace to the next question. Yes.

[00:35:37] Grace Duffy: So combining the chaos that, that she likes the chaos, I really like Colin’s advice, maybe more themes of regular regularity being more specific. And the life of Brian has this comment too.

[00:35:48] He says, I think there’s a danger in seasons that if that season doesn’t interest the person, they could fall out of habit of watching or listening and using playlist, DEC create groups of categories might work better. So I

[00:36:01] Jeff Sieh: think that would on that. Yeah. I’d love to know what Colin thinks, because I think like on playlists when you’re talking about that would be like a YouTube thing, but seasons is more.

[00:36:10] For podcasts. What are your thoughts, Colin? Um,

[00:36:12] Colin Gray: yeah, I think that’s a really good question. Yeah. So thanks for popping that in it’s it’s, um, a concern for sure, but I think if you do your research, right, um, you’re designing your seasons around stuff that your audience are asking for. That’s what it’s all about.

[00:36:25] Like I often use my season break, so when I finish a season, I’ll say, right, that’s us done for this season? I hope you’ve enjoyed it. We’re gonna come back in six weeks. Um, now get in touch during the season break again, being specific, right? Get in touch during the season break and tell me, what are you struggling with around.

[00:36:41] This topic. Um, now give me your main questions. What are your big questions that you want us to cover on the next season? Uh, and then that helps power it and make sure you’re covering the right stuff. And you’re right. You might find people in your audience that are less interested in particular topics, but if your podcast is focused enough specific enough, it’s, it’s found the right audience.

[00:37:03] I think you’d find it hard to find, you know, atopic that somebody completely doesn’t resonate with. Um, and if you are concerned with that, obviously you can keep your seasons relatively short, like just four to six weeks maybe. Uh, and that might alleviate any of those kind of problems.

[00:37:18] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Great advice.

[00:37:19] Thanks for those questions and, and comment everybody. Um,

[00:37:22] Grace Duffy: keep on coming. We, this is, this is a, this is a show for our audience as much as it is for me and Jeff getting free consulting on our own

[00:37:29] Jeff Sieh: podcast. So yeah, go ahead with the next question. Yeah,

[00:37:32] Grace Duffy: go ahead. Thinking of which let’s discuss what happens after the show.

[00:37:36] So you’ve booked the time you’ve got the seller guest, you’ve done the show, hang up the headphones, but there’s still notes, transcripts, and the repurposing left to be had you touched a little bit about this earlier. So I know in project product and engineering teams, there’s a way of measuring impact over effort over impact, right?

[00:37:55] So in order to prioritize tasks and it can take a significant amount of time and energy. I mean, it can to maybe it doesn’t have to, to edit and publish beautiful show. But what is the impact in terms of growing your audience or attracting sponsors? In other words, is there a benefit to having beautiful written recaps and show notes of your podcast?

[00:38:17] Or is it just like published, done repurpose move on to the next one? What, what, how can we, how can we justify this time? Because it is, it does take a lot of time to go.

[00:38:27] Colin Gray: It does. You’re absolutely right. But I do think it’s so valuable. I think it’s hugely valuable for a couple of reasons. Like it’s for it’s for your existing listeners, because people love to have someone to review.

[00:38:37] They love to have someone to go and look at like so many people listening to your show are in the car, walking the dog, going for a run. Um, so you mentioned all this stuff, all this learning, they want to go and put it into action. So they need to build, to get back to the computer and see a summary and skim through it and not have to listen to the whole thing again.

[00:38:55] So I think it’s really important for building that engagement and success with your listeners, but equally it’s for discovery. It’s even more for discovery. Like we all love podcasting, but the one thing it’s not brilliant at is being found, you know, like getting out there, but Google, Google is the best for that.

[00:39:13] Like that is what it does. People type every time somebody’s got a question, you type it straight into Google. That’s what you’re, that’s where you go. They’re rarely gonna find a podcast episode. By typing in that question, but they’ll very commonly find a blog post. So if you can turn your podcast episodes into decent show notes, which actually really resemble a blog post with an audio player in people find that blog post, they skim through it and go, this is good stuff.

[00:39:39] They see this player here and go, oh, there’s audio, right? Play let’s listen. And then that hopefully hooks them in. And that way you’re not even just fighting for existing podcast listeners, you know, their space and their player, but you’re finding people that maybe don’t even listen to podcasts and convert them into podcast listeners.

[00:39:57] So that’s just a few, the reasons I think it’s really important to do the written side of it.

[00:40:01] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. Yeah, the, the discoverability. And we’re gonna talk about that later. So I want to burn through this next one. So we have time because that’s like stuff that’s really exciting to me. Uh, but we use the script for our transcriptions and repurposing, you know, and with some extra editing, you know, we have show notes ready to publish.

[00:40:17] So what tools do you use Colin to like help Restream streamline the process of. You know, creating shows, notes, and transcripts and all that stuff.

[00:40:25] Colin Gray: I do. You know what? I don’t really use that much. I actually, so I do it in combination. The way I save time with it is I do it in combination with planning the podcast episode.

[00:40:34] Because when I plan out a podcast episode for podcast, for example, we’ll create a bullet note, a bullet point plan. Um, I’ll then record it with Matthew and then I’ll go and write it straight. And do you know how much quicker it is to write like four or 500 words after you’ve spoken through the topic it’s so much quicker, cuz you’ve kind of formulated it in your brain.

[00:40:56] You’ve organized it, you’ve talked it all through and you can kind of splurge it out onto the page so much easier than just writing a blog post from scratch. So that’s how we tend to do it. We do, we do do transcripts sometimes, uh, for our shows. In fact, no, we’re, we’re always doing them now. Actually we changed that recently, um, for accessibility reasons actually.

[00:41:15] So yeah, we raise rev for that. Um, and but yeah, it’s really, that is quite simple. Actually. Most of it’s quite manual.

[00:41:22] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Yeah. So, um, uh, so Hey, Sabrina says, hi, it’s Sabrina. Sabrina’s always one of our faithful listeners and Watchers. Um, but one of the things you talked about, the ease of doing it, and now it’s easier now with like places like rev, like with the script.

[00:41:35] And we actually had those, uh, folks on our show from podcast movement. So go back a couple of episodes and listen to that. If you weren’t able to do that because they had some good insights, there’s some cool stuff coming out with the script. Um, but another great tool is our friends of course, over at Ecamm at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm.

[00:41:51] They actually, when we do this show and it records right to a folder, While after I’m done and the tracks are split up for a podcast. So it’s already split up and with Colin’s voice on one track and Grace is on another. And unfortunately mine on another one, but we all can split it up. It makes it really easy for editing and repurposing, which is what Colin was talking about.

[00:42:10] So if you haven’t checked them out, socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm and don’t forget their Leap into podcasting. You find out a bit more about that at Leap into podcasting.com. Talking about video podcasts, we are gonna be talking there. All three of us are gonna be doing sessions there on Leap into podcasting.

[00:42:25] So make sure you guys sign up. It’s the end of this month. It’s free, but you need to sign up, go to Leap into podcasting.com. All. Um, one of the questions I wanna ask are fellow Watchers that are watching live. And if you’re watching on the replay, make sure to answer that below as well. But how did you find this show?

[00:42:43] Social Media News Live. I’d love to know. Did you follow us over from our previous show? Did you find us just randomly on Facebook or YouTube? Did a friend tell you, I wanna know how you guys found this show? Because I think it’s really, really interesting because what we’re gonna be talking about next is super important to me.

[00:43:00] And I’m always interested in this topic is podcasting SEO. What does it mean? How does it work? All this stuff. A lot of people at podcast movement calling said, you know, all you need is great content. That’s all you need and people will find your podcast. That’s the first thing you need. Um, what else can we do?

[00:43:18] Let’s say we think we have a great show, but we’re still struggling with discovery. And we talked about that earlier podcast is kind of hard to do that. What are some things that we can do to practically improve our SEO for our podcast? .

[00:43:30] Colin Gray: I mean, I think it’s, is it, it is down to just general web SEO actually.

[00:43:36] Like, is it worth just going to wee bit of the stuff around, you know, figuring out what keywords people are searching for in your area? Is that, is that relevant to this? Do you think?

[00:43:45] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think, yeah, I mean, I think transcripts, like you said, are huge. And I think that with the tools now you have to almost do.

[00:43:53] Colin Gray: Because yeah. Google. Yeah, for sure. I mean, the way I start with it is that I, I use all the traditional tools like we, so we built the blog first before our podcast. Well, I was, I was podcasting back in the day, but it was our blog that caught the traction first because we started writing about podcasting.

[00:44:10] Um, and that was really all about using the SEO tools to figure out what people are searching for in our topic. And I think that’s a really underused way of figuring out what you should be covering on your podcast. And it leads into your podcast being naturally a Sieh. So it is things like, you know, Google keyword tool.

[00:44:28] Like, if you have a podcast about, well, go back to cars. So you’ve got a podcast about motoring cars, that kinda stuff. Um, you type in, uh, cars, or you type in some of the sort of basic phrases that, you know, people cover in your area. And it’ll give you a whole Restream of phrases that are related to that.

[00:44:46] It’ll break ’em down really specifically, like it’ll be, what is the best car under $10,000? What is the fastest car? What is the biggest engine in the world? You know, all these, all these questions related to it. Um, Google keyword tells good for that tells you the volume. It shows you how many people are searching.

[00:45:04] So it shows you most popular ones. And then you’ve got answer. The public is a great site of either of you come across that.

[00:45:10] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it’s fun. I, I always forget about it, but every, I I’ve been in playing with it before.

[00:45:14] Colin Gray: Yeah. Yeah. Such a good tool for figuring out what to cover on your podcast, you type in your topic.

[00:45:20] So if I type in podcasting, it has all these, what questions about podcasting? Like what makes should I use what podcast hosting platform should I, should I use has all the, how questions, the why questions, the, where, um, it’s just that wealth of stuff that you should cover. And the most important thing is that all of these come from searches that people pop into Google or YouTube or any search engine.

[00:45:44] And therefore, you know, that these are well EOD. And the next stage obviously is to talk through all that topic, answer that topic well, and then have that title. So clearly, um, that, that phrase so clearly in the title, because that’s what people are searching for. Nobody wants to find a podcast, which says like it’s, um, the podcast about cars and in the first episode is, uh, Brian Johnson.

[00:46:08] Uh, and that’s it. And then it’s Jane, Jane Jones. And then it’s like, it’s just names. There’s so many shows like that. They just have a list of names. Nobody cares about the names, unless it’s, somebody’s super famous. Right. They care about the topic. Okay. They care about the question. So that’s the main thing.

[00:46:24] Get the question in there, the problem that you’re solving and put it in the description as well. And, and that’s a big part of it. I think for certainly for the search engines, the, the audio search engines, like apple podcasts and Spotify.

[00:46:37] Jeff Sieh: So I wanna bring up this question once, man comment, the chaos, you’ve got some great questions and comments.

[00:46:42] Thank you for doing that today. And she goes, I followed Colin on YouTube is how she found this show. And that’s one of the things I think with podcasting and live video that a lot of people don’t think about when you start interviewing people, you almost share, you start stealing or I’ll say sharing, that sounds better.

[00:46:57] Their audience, like Colin probably pushed this to his channel. And so we’re going out there live. And so we are being in front of people that we’ve never have been before and they can either, hopefully they like us. They wanna subscribe to our show the same way with doing interviews with podcasts. I know a lot of podcasters, a way that they grow their podcast is by being on other podcasts.

[00:47:18] So can you speak a little bit about that, Colin, about like, you know, sharing audiences in that.

[00:47:24] Colin Gray: Yeah, I think I, I feel like the days of the, you know, the interview tour are less effective these days. Like if you, if you just turn up on, um, on podcasts as a guest, I dunno. It’s, it’s, it seems to be less effective these days, but something that I think is very effective is actually more of the cohosted approach.

[00:47:44] So if you actually go on and you find guests that have really similar audiences, you find, uh, not guests, sorry, you find other hosts who have really similar audiences and you just set up a cohosted episode with them, do an episode swap. So you record an episode together, you have an actual conversation rather than interview.

[00:48:02] So it’s much more engaging, much more chemistry, much more back and forth. Um, and then you post it on both feeds and maybe even do it more than once 2, 3, 4 times you do a little series a season, go back to that. Right. Um, I find that much more effective these days actually, because it’s, it just feels more authentic.

[00:48:20] It feels like you’re passing a bit more trust. Doing it that way, rather than just popping in as a guest, just once in a while. So I, I like that technique a lot. Yeah. And I, I

[00:48:29] Jeff Sieh: know some big shows and I’ll even, I’ll mention, uh, business awards. Again, they’ll have like episodes from their network come into their show.

[00:48:36] That’s kind of in the same business thing. Like, you’ll see in your feed off. So like, Hey, we’re doing this new show about, you know, this, uh, mystery or this murder that happened. And, you know, do you want, you know, it gives you a chance to jump over to another thing in their network, which I think is. Kind of similar to what you were talking about, where you can have somebody who’s similar in bringing on different feeds.

[00:48:56] Colin Gray: So, yeah. Yeah. It’s funny. Actually, I had a friend, uh, get in touch with me recently and say, when did podcasts become just places to advertise their podcasts? it has been a bit of a switch there hasn’t there used always be mattress adverts and things like that. And nowadays it’s always podcast adverts, which is cool.

[00:49:15] I think, cuz it’s more relevant, isn’t it? Like you want to find other podcasts to listen to, so yeah.

[00:49:19] Grace Duffy: Oh yeah, for sure. Especially when you’re off your season, you want some off season podcast, so right. Indeed, indeed. Okay. So as of July 20, 22, and I think this will remain the same for August, if I’m not mistaken, but apple.

[00:49:33] One still holds the number one spot, uh, with 30, almost 38% of all podcast listeners, which accounted for 44.5 million podcast downloads. Spotify holds the number two position at about 27% of podcast listeners. And that was at 32 million downloads. And then other podcasting platforms, each one individually was less than 2% of all the, but altogether we’re talking about 62% of podcast.

[00:50:02] Listeners are not on apple podcasts, right? So, but the, the apple still the top one, but knowing this is apple still where we need to concentrate our efforts as far as you know, when you’re asking for those ratings and reviews and, and where we’re sending people. And what about Spotify and these other directories.

[00:50:20] So help us figure that out too, because I know that that’s, that’s a conundrum.

[00:50:25] Colin Gray: Yeah, I think it’s a, I think apple is a funny one because it’s still like the kind of, even though it’s been shrinking in terms of market share, Spotify is absolutely catching up with it. In some numbers, it’s overtaken it by a fair bit.

[00:50:37] Hasn’t it depends where you look really, but it still has that authority as a place where you can often check, you know? Um, so for social proof, I suppose around a show, it’s where I feel the best reviews are. The most effective reviews are PO possibly because people are still, still sending people there most often, but I still find it has it’s worth.

[00:51:00] Concentrating a bit of your effort, at least there. Um, but I mean, it’s certainly, it depends a bit on the topic as well. I know Spotify does better with certain areas, certain categories. Um, so I think you could do those two and you don’t need to worry about the others. Do you like Google podcast kind of takes care of itself?

[00:51:19] Amazon podcast was kinda starting to grow, but doesn’t doing so well. So as long as you’re in apple podcasts, then you get picked up by all the players you’re in PocketCasts, you’re in overcast, all that kinda stuff. Then the rest kinda takes care of itself. And then you’re maybe going into those specific tactics that you were talking about, Amazon Alexa later on and stuff like that.

[00:51:38] So, yeah, I, I mean, I think it’ll be a long time before apple is something that we don’t have to do a lot of work on apple podcasts. I mean, um, and make sure we’re definitely looking good there in terms of reviews and ratings.

[00:51:53] Jeff Sieh: I wanna ask the question because I went into lipid session. Um, it was, and I think he’s done the same one a couple years, but he was pretty much saying ratings and reviews don’t matter.

[00:52:03] Um, and so yeah, what can, what can we, yeah, what can we do, um, to improve our ranking in apple podcasts and Spotify, you know, um, cause it seems like, you know, the big top spots are, are these big deal podcasters it’s been a land rush. I noticed that podcast movement. There’s a lot of big networks. I mean, I was in the elevator with like Fox broadcasting and you know, they’re, they’re buying all these podcasts and they’re, it’s this huge industry now.

[00:52:28] Um, how do we as independent podcasters, you know, increase our ratings and rankings on these big places like Spotify and apple podcast. .

[00:52:38] Colin Gray: Yeah, it’s a good question. And I think, I think rating, so there’s a lot of reason behind what, um, Rob says around ratings and reviews. Like it’s people overplay it. They, they say it matters more than it does, and it’s not as important as a lot of people think.

[00:52:53] But the thing, the reason I think it is important is because it’s that, it’s that social proof that was talking about second ago. People are more likely to subscribe if they see, you know, 20, 30, 40 reviews. So it’s still worth getting them. But I think actually us independent podcasters, I think you’re absolutely right.

[00:53:10] It’s hard to compete in the apple charts, for example, because it’s such a small space. Mm-hmm, like the, the only show the top 10 20 max can’t even, it’s probably not even that many. I think that’s why we’re. We should be concentrating elsewhere. We should be concentrating on, um, the text side of things for a start.

[00:53:29] So the show notes make a big difference. Being able to be found on Google, cuz it’s a really specific that’s where people are an asking their questions. So if you’re answering very specific topics, again, get those text resources on there. So people find you that way. But then again, it’s other places like communi.

[00:53:44] Actually like being where your listeners are hanging out, like find out where your listeners hang out and get involved there. The, the advantage we have as podcasters is that one podcast listener is worth a hundred blog readers. It’s worth a hundred video Watchers, you know, in terms of the interaction, the engagement, the trust that podcasting builds.

[00:54:07] So we can do things that are less scalable. Like it wouldn’t be worth me going to a networking event of 10 people and try to recruit some blog readers. Cause like barely any of them will do anything. They’ll they’ll maybe go and have a quick skim and they won’t really do anything. But if I can recruit like a couple of podcast listeners, cause of the trust that you build in a podcast, because of how much people get to know you and, and trust you and become loyal listeners.

[00:54:29] And then. Promote you for them and, and take part in your products and do the things you ask them to do. It’s worthwhile like doing those smaller, less scalable things. I think. So I think people should worry less about the, um, you know, the new noteworthy and the apple charts and think about getting out there where their potential listeners live, um, not live, don’t go to their houses but where they hang out, uh, and find them and really engage with them that way.

[00:54:56] And the, the extra bonus there as well is that you find out what they’re asking for. You ask them questions and you get so much powerful content ideas that way, too. That’s

[00:55:05] Jeff Sieh: a great advice. So I’m gonna have to, um, we’re probably gonna not go to the next section and have gone back sometimes where he can talk just on podcast monetization, because we are running short on time.

[00:55:15] But I do wanna ask you, cuz it kind of has to, to do with it a little bit. Colin is, you know, what is considered success? In podcasting, is it downloads? Is it sponsorships? Is it, you know, making you know, money with your podcast? So, um, you know, why does these metrics matter? So what would you say when somebody’s like, what do I, if a company comes to you, like, I’m thinking about starting a podcast, Colin, um, but I don’t know how to, you know, track, it’s gonna be worth my time or effort and all that kinda stuff.

[00:55:44] What do you. .

[00:55:45] Colin Gray: Yeah, I, I think I, this, hopefully this doesn’t sound like a cop out answer, but I think that is so personal to the person that’s getting involved. Like a company. It might be directly, we success for us is we’re gonna sell 10 products. Mm-hmm , um, in the next month, but we have so many people that we work with where it’s, um, success is actually, I’m gonna get to talk to these 10 people in my industry because I have an excuse to ask them for my PO because of my podcast, or I’m gonna connect with 20 new people that have the same mental health issue as I have and help them in some way, like that can be success for the person as well.

[00:56:20] There’s so many different ways that, you know, people can find success in pod. It’s such a cool thing about podcasting that you can reach people. You can connect with people. You can change people’s lives through the words that you put out there into the world. So success could be monetary, but it can be entirely different.

[00:56:38] It can just be something that you find that moves you and changes somebody else. Mm, that

[00:56:43] Jeff Sieh: is, that is great. So Colin, I wanna ask one question as the last, uh, one, hopefully, but I know I’ll let Grace ask one, cuz I hog the time but what, when you first start out podcasting, what are some reasonable goals that we should set for ourselves?

[00:56:56] Like we started this podcast, we committed. We’re gonna do it, you know, and yeah. But what goal should we set?

[00:57:04] Colin Gray: Yeah, great question. I think, I mean, I often the goal that I tell people that come to us first, first couple of months, the goal is just literally do it once a week for eight weeks. And that is it.

[00:57:15] Get eight episodes out there into the world, do two months worth of podcasting. That is a goal. Um, the goal, another goal might be actually just do it as if you’re going live. Like, I love that as a goal for it. So do your eight weeks, but actually don’t do any editing. Like literally just put it raw out there into the world because you know what, if you commit to that, um, You improve your speaking style fast, cuz you know that you can’t use editing as a crutch.

[00:57:40] Yeah. So you listen to the first episode and you’re like, there’s so many. Ah, and ah, and oh, and you, you, you hear all these crutch words that you say that you never noticed you say before, like basically I always say, so basically you do this and then basically you do that like, oh, it’s driving me crazy.

[00:57:55] Um, but you hear them and you stop doing them because you’re not allowed to edit them out. There’s that can be a goal in itself. Like just improving your speaking style, which can help professionally. Like if you’re in meetings or doing real presentations in front of hundreds of people, or it can be just personally like just literally speaking to people in, at a party or in a, in a group or something podcasting can be for that as well.

[00:58:17] So that’s the generally the goals I set, like rarely do we set, um, numerical goals around. You know, a listenership cause you can, I honestly don’t think you can put any kind reasonable goals around listenership unless you’ve launched 20 shows in the past. And you’re a, a kind of factory of a production company.

[00:58:35] So it’s got to be around something related, like improving your skills, meeting these certain people, that kind stuff. So does that help?

[00:58:43] Jeff Sieh: Yes, that’s great. And in fact, um, it helps so much. We have a comment from commonly chaos says I will take the live Restream challenge. So the live challenge. Yes. So, uh, and make sure you guys, if you’re not following Colin that you guys go do that, uh, we are at the end of our time, Grace, did you have one question before?

[00:59:00] Grace Duffy: I wanna know where people can find Colin because he’s got his YouTube channel, he’s got his, he’s got all the places. So Colin tell us where everyone can come find you and sign up and find out more about tu. And, uh, am I saying that correctly? How do you, you say it so beautifully in the demo?

[00:59:16] Colin Gray: I, I say tu everyone in the us says Aliu, which I like as well.

[00:59:21] Like I’m happy with either but yeah, I appreciate that. Um, I mean, you can, um, yeah, firmly wants to give all to a try. They can see a demo of it over@tu.com. It’s spelled a L iu.com. Um, and all of our podcasting guides are at that link. Right there, the podcast host.com. Um, and yeah, you mentioned YouTube actually.

[00:59:42] I’m trying to grow the YouTube channel. I really enjoy making video as well as the podcast. So yeah, if you want to nip over there, it’s over at, um, I think it’s under for, I should have a short link fish shouldn’t I it’s forward slash Colin MC gray. I believe on YouTube, youtube.com/column. Sieh do you have a link?

[00:59:58] You probably search the

[00:59:59] Grace Duffy: podcast. I found it. I found it on YouTube by looking up Colin gray and then podcast host. Yeah. And it was, it popped right up. So do you

[01:00:06] Jeff Sieh: have links to your socials on your, the podcast host.com where they could jump

[01:00:10] Colin Gray: over from there? Yeah, that’s true, actually. Yeah. If they go to the podcast, host.com, it’s all in the fitter.

[01:00:15] All the socials. Yeah,

[01:00:16] Jeff Sieh: absolutely. Go check that out. So thank you guys so much for watching. Thank you for Grace, Duffy, who. Puts together such a great show. She’s amazing. That’s one thing, you know, we have played around with letting you guys have super secret access to her show notes. Um, all of our guests always rave about how Grace puts ’em together.

[01:00:31] So if you would like, we’re trying to figure out how to do that, but, you know, if you would like access to Grace’s notes, let us know, uh, in the comments, because I think they’re valuable to me and to our guests. So we may figure out a way to, to get those to you.

[01:00:44] Grace Duffy: We maybe, maybe we should publish the notes after the show when it looks like.

[01:00:47] Yeah. You know, it looks like a . Yeah, it looks, it looks like a, a, a. Uh, stalker notes or whatever between you and I just

[01:00:56] Jeff Sieh: we’re always typing. Yeah. Stop it. Give this Grace. Yes. Yes. Stop typing Grace. Oh, Gary came up with a great thing. He says Grace notes. That’s a great name. Ooh, Gary. That is great. So, and he says, I will have to watch this recording again for this episode.

[01:01:09] Yes, I will too. Gary, cuz it’s, it’s a lot of great stuff in there. Thank you guys so much for watching for all your great, great questions. Calming the chaos. Uh, thank you for, um, your questions. Uh, Robert, we didn’t get to your comment. I’m sorry, but uh, all of you guys who watch us every week, we are so appreciative of you.

[01:01:26] We would not be able to do the show without you or our sponsor at Ecamm. So make sure you go check them out at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm. And with that, we’ll see you guys next week. Bye everybody. Bye.

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