With social media ad formats expected to experience the slowest growth in 2023 and turbulence around Meta, Snapchat, Patreon, and other platforms, creators, brands, and advertisers are taking a serious look at Pinterest for their 2023 marketing budgets. So we are too! 

Kate Ahl joins us on this week’s show to explore creator programs and monetization opportunities on Pinterest. We’ll also discuss Pinterest advertising, Shoppable Pins, and the top 2023 marketing trends.

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to another edition of Social Media. News Live. This, I’m so excited about this one. This is a long time coming. If you guys have stuck around with me for a while, you know that I cut my teeth on Pinterest. I’m still a big fan, um, but somebody I go to for information is our guest today, Kate.

[00:00:17] Also make sure that you ask your questions down below because we wanna make this show all about you. Uh, like I always tease everybody as like, this is an hour of free consulting for me, so I, if you don’t ask questions, yeah, I will. Um, And I’m so excited that you guys are joining us for the beginning of the year.

[00:00:33] We’ve got so many cool guests already scheduled out here, so, uh, this is gonna be a great year. Uh, Grace is back with us. She’s been, uh, traveling the country, enjoying her time off. Um, but um, We would love for you also to sprinkle the love across the interwebs. If you know somebody who’s like, you know, I’ve thought about Pinterest before, but I just don’t know where to start.

[00:00:55] Make sure you call ’em in at, uh, in the show, wherever you’re watching from, you know, app mentioned them, call ’em in, even if they can’t watch it live, uh, because we have a great community. In fact, some of our people are here already. Gary Stockton, uh, my friend, thank you so much for showing up. He says, good morning, you beautiful faces.

[00:01:11] I’m assuming you mean the two people on my other side. Oh, Gary, thank you so much for that. I’m glad you’re here with us. Hope you’re doing well. Uh, we’ve got the life of Brian, Brian Ferrells here saying Good evening, lovely people and happy New Year. He’s usually watching. How do you hear Brian? Uh, Barcelona I think is where he’s from.

[00:01:27] So Brian, thank you so much for stopping by. He’s, he’s killing it on Pinterest too. He’s an amazing photographer. Oh. Uh, so he’s a great, I think he started when we were doing Pinterest stuff and he, he followed us over here. And then we have Francesca saying hi from Italy. Hi for, thank you so much for watching over on LinkedIn watching us from Italy.

[00:01:44] Yeah, that is amazing. Make sure you ask your questions and we’ll try to get to ’em today. Grace,

[00:01:48] Grace Duffy: how are you? I am doing great. I was also gonna add that if, if, even if someone isn’t thinking about Pinterest, maybe you should because Yeah. As I was doing the research for the today’s show, it’s, it’s quite the sleeping tiger and I think it’s gonna come out ahead this year.

[00:02:03] They’ve got a lot of ex. Exciting things to, uh, to talk about today. So I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna get too into it because I wanna start off the show with it, but, uh,

[00:02:11] Jeff Sieh: you know, make sure, and I wanna, there’s Brian, he says he’s back in Barcelona for the winter, but he’ll be closer to our time. So next week.

[00:02:16] Well, speaking of timezone, Kate did us a great favor and got up early. She is over on the Eastern time zone, um, and trudged out to her. Is it cold there? Well, I can’t remember where exactly

[00:02:26] Kate Ahl: you’re at. No, it’s not bad. Portland. Okay, so Western. Yeah, so it’s not terrible. Okay. But it’s not, you know, Yes. It’s not 8:00 AM

[00:02:34] It’s still the best

[00:02:36] Jeff Sieh: Friday still. Yes, exactly.

[00:02:38] Grace Duffy: Well, thank you for joining us from Portland,

[00:02:40] Jeff Sieh: Kate, and we have Caitlin, uh, from Utah. Thank you Caitlin, for watching us over on LinkedIn. Appreciate you, make sure you ask your questions as well. So, uh, we are gonna get started, but I first wanted to give you guys a little, uh, thing.

[00:02:51] If you’re interested in, I am starting a paid mastermind at the beginning of this year. So if you’re interested in that, shoot me at dm, wherever you’re watching from. I will try to send you the, uh, kind of intake form if you’re interested in that. We’re gonna. Really small, probably about 10 people. But, uh, we would love for you to join us.

[00:03:07] We’ve got, I’ve got my friend, uh, Anthony Whit, who is a licensed counselor. He’s done masterminds for some really big, uh, companies, so this is gonna be a really great thing. So just, and he was a guest on our show, Jeff. That’s right. You could go back and watch old Anthony. Uh, and I’ve been meeting with Anthony in a mastermind for probably over five years, so he’s a good guy.

[00:03:24] So you guys wanna, if you’re interested in that, you need to check it out. So we will get started with show. I’m gonna hit go on the podcast machine and we’ll get started. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff C and you’re not.

[00:03:37] Grace Duffy: And I’m Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and beyond.

[00:03:45] And today we have the brilliant Kate all on the show with us, and we’re gonna cover what to expect from Pinterest in 2023. And just like our comment here, Caitlin, she was. . She was saying that she hasn’t pinned over a year because nothing new seems to be doing anything. Well, this is the year to, as she put it, not start, but how to restart cuz we want to share with you everything that the platform will be offering creative, uh, our content creators, businesses and brands, what they can expect from Pinterest in 2023 in terms of the creator program and monetization opportunities.

[00:04:18] They’re, they, they, Took away and they giveth. So we’re gonna get into

[00:04:22] Jeff Sieh: that . We’ll talk about

[00:04:24] Grace Duffy: the giveth a little bit. We’re gonna talk about the giveth. Okay. Mostly about the giveth. Yeah. We’re gonna talk about the advertising and shopable pins, which by the way are going really strong right now. And then finally, we’re gonna talk about this.

[00:04:35] Uh, 2023. Pinterest predicts their marketing trends as predicted by, Pin activity engagement and is actually really spot on. So if you’re looking to jump on trends or, uh, what’s go, what, you know, what’s next in in media, this is something to definitely pay attention to. And of course with all social media platforms in general, experiencing some slow growth, particularly in the fourth quarter.

[00:05:00] Talking a little bit about this in the, in the pre-show here or in the, in the green room, and there’s a lot of turbulence around. Meta and Snapchat and Patreon and others. We’re not gonna get into that today because Pinterest is actually taking off. So we are here to talk about the day. So Kate, how

[00:05:17] Kate Ahl: are you today?

[00:05:18] I’m so good and so excited. It’s just so great to watch you guys do what you do cuz it’s just so fantastic. So I’m thrilled to be here and be a part of it and just chat all things Pinterest. So there we go.

[00:05:30] Jeff Sieh: And Kate knows all things Pinterest. I have been following her for a long time. We’ve been in this space for a while, been on each other’s podcast.

[00:05:36] And so if you don’t know Kate, you really need to because she is the owner and founder of Simple Pin Media. It’s a Pinterest management and marketing agency. Her company has worked with over 1000 Pinterest accounts over the last nine plus years, and their goal is to help business owners understand how to leverage the platform to grow their email list, find cold leads and make more sales.

[00:06:00] And she is a Pinterest speaker. She’s a teacher, a podcaster. And strategist. And so strategist, I can’t even say that word. I’m so excited. Strategist. I like the way you got it. Strategist. Yeah, strategist. Whatever. Strateg. Dema. It’s East Texas. It’s Friday. So we say all sorts of things, , but you guys wanna make sure that you check out her podcast at Simple Pin Podcast.

[00:06:19] Do a search in your favorite podcast player. You’ll find it. I listen to it for all the latest Pinterest stuff. She does such a great job with it. She’s been doing it for, I think, what’d you say? Over seven years?

[00:06:29] Kate Ahl: Almost

[00:06:29] Jeff Sieh: seven, yeah. Yeah. And it’s really, really great. So just do a search for Simple Pin podcast and do her a favor and leave a rating and review, because that really does help podcasters out.

[00:06:39] So if you would do that, I would really appreciate it and I Sure Kate would too. So, We’re gonna get started cuz we’ve got a lot of stuff to cover and it’s amazing. But I do wanna give a big shout out to our sponsor of the show, which is Ecamm. You guys can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm.

[00:06:57] There’s what they’re, what makes this show possible. Allow us to do this crazy Streaming stuff all across the interwebs. Bring in comments like my friend, uh, Jim Fuse, saying hello, beautiful people. And I can tell just by looking at him, he’s from watching me over on YouTube. So Jim, thank you for watching us over there.

[00:07:13] But once. socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm, you can find out all about this amazing program and their community. So, alrighty. First segment. Grace, the Pinterest economy, right?

[00:07:24] Grace Duffy: Oh yes. The Pinterest and the Creator Economy. But yes, the Pinterest economy. So we’re gonna start off with a little bad news.

[00:07:30] Pinterest did shut down its creative rewards program, uh, back in November of 2022, citing that it is looking to focus on other creator programs. Features if you weren’t familiar, this is a rewards program that allowed participants or encouraged participants to create idea pins and gave them an opportunity to create content while earning money around that content, around certain, uh, prompts and themes.

[00:07:56] It was also based on engagement goals, and it also meant that a lot of underrepresented. In their creator space would also be elevated through this program cuz they were all responding to these themes and, uh, prompts. But in, uh, 2021, the program, the company also debuted the, when it debated, Excuse me,

[00:08:18] When it debuted this Creator Rewards program, it also invested 20 million into it, and then it also launched a half million dollar creator fund that injected an additional 1.2 million into this project. So Pinterest is still continuing with other programs such as, um, shoppable pins and paid partnerships.

[00:08:37] And it also said that, and this is the part that we brought Kate on to talk to us about is Pinterest has also said that it is committed to exploring new ways to help. Find success on Pinterest in 2023 and they’re looking forward to more opportunities. So, you know, Pinterest is not alone in having to shut down and readjust and make adjustments in this coming year.

[00:08:59] All the social media platforms as we meant, as I mentioned earlier, were, um, You know, these crater focused startups, uh, you know, haven’t been so hot. Again, Snapchat, Patreon Meta, you know, had some layoffs. YouTube as ads have been slowing down, and also the pool of eligible creators has continued to increase as people are relying more on platforms like TikTok and Instagram and such.

[00:09:21] But today we are focusing on Pinterest and we want to know what kind of opportunities should creators be looking for or looking forward to when it comes to making money with Pinterest. This. ,

[00:09:34] Kate Ahl: great question. You summed it up perfectly. So there’s two things I wanna clarify. There’s the Creator Fund, which is for underrepresented communities.

[00:09:41] What we’ve heard is that will still continue, okay? But the Creator Reward program where they were monetizing people to create idea pins, that’s done. And it was very swift. It was like three days we’re out and they’re. First thing. Yeah. Which was like, okay, I guess they’re really done with this. The first thing they wanna introduce in 2023 is links on idea pins, which for creators was the most frustrating because the ecosystem of Pinterest runs on this idea that people go to it.

[00:10:07] They search for an idea and then they leave to go find it. And Pinterest was like, wait a minute. I wanna capture more of that short form video. People staying on the platform longer so you can appeal to advertisers. So they said, Hey, creators, you create more of this idea pins. And in the beginning, as all creator rewards programs are the first people who get into it, get paid the most.

[00:10:28] Mm-hmm. . And then it started to decrease over time and you saw more people, more creators putting output. For less input of dollars. So I think it was kind of headed towards. Disaster, if you will. Right? If they didn’t shut it down. Mm-hmm. . So now with this thing to say like, we’re gonna give you links on idea pins, because I think another thing happened in the background, regular piners love the ecosystem of Pinterest too.

[00:10:52] And one of their greatest frustrations is when they click on a pin and it’s dead, it doesn’t go anywhere. So Pinterest essentially put a pin format in there that was dead. It didn’t go anywhere. So I imagine their users complained as well. Mm-hmm. . So now when we add this link to Idea Pin, , it allows the creator then to keep that same flow up of driving people to their shop or to their website.

[00:11:14] I don’t know necessarily if Pinterest is gonna put something else in place where people can make money through a creator reward program, but I think they’ll probably get more tools that help facilitate growth on your own site. That’s kind of what I’m seeing in 23.

[00:11:29] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think that’s great because, so I, I was one of the first people who got into the, the rewards program and I.

[00:11:35] Quite a bit of money at the beginning doing that. And then it started, like you said, dwindling down and it was like, at the end I was like, it’s not even worth it anymore because by the time you got it approved and they had all sorts of things with the beta thing, you know, people getting approved and not approved and all that.

[00:11:49] Um, I, but I know a lot of people. Were they built a lot of their business on that. Like it was, I’m, I’m also in the, um, where the community and here Oh, the greater community. Yeah. It’s, yeah, it was crazy. Like, it was like, you know, um, and Pinterest people are pretty nice usually, but, oh my gosh, it was crazy.

[00:12:06] Um,

[00:12:07] Grace Duffy: well, I think it’s interesting too that, uh, you, you mentioned this, that it’s driving people driving, uh, Your audience to your own website. Mm-hmm. where a lot of these sites have been very focused. A lot of the other social media sites have been very focused on keeping you on platform as opposed to Right.

[00:12:24] Helping you build that, you know, where you, the things you own. So I think that’s also something very unique about

[00:12:30] Kate Ahl: Pinterest. Well, and I think to that point, one of the things before anybody starts marketing or goes back to marketing to it is you remember Pinterest is like a library. Instagram is a bar, right?

[00:12:40] You have totally different ecosystems that you enter into, so you’re serving your end user. W. actually first with a question, right? They’re not searching for your brand, they’re not searching for anything that you do. They’re asking a question like, how do I do X, Y, Z, or best pillows for my living room, right?

[00:12:56] Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . And when they want something and they can’t get it, it’s such a frustrating user experience. Oh yeah. And so that’s why I think Pinterest had to go, wait a minute, okay. We did try to elevate this whole short form thing, capture some TikTok, capture some of. But we still have to remain true to who we are.

[00:13:15] And I, I kind of like that. Okay, let’s get back to it, right. And see if we can serve people

[00:13:19] Jeff Sieh: better. Because that was the frustrating thing with idea pins, like you had mentioned that. Mm-hmm. , um, unless you had the product link sticker, which even came later Yeah. That you could not drive people to your product or whatever.

[00:13:32] It was just, and I get it, everybody wants to keep everything on the platform. But I’m glad that Pinterest kind of went okay. And they did promise this in the coming year that you know, we’re gonna be able to, to have those links just like regular pins, which is. Built Pinterest to what it is, is being able to click on that and go, so I’m trying to explain to people who may be like really new to Pinterest.

[00:13:50] Like it’s, it’s a dis a, what do they call it? A visual discovery engine? Yes. It’s more of a search engine than it is a social platform. They kind of, in my opinion, they kind of got away with that with idea pins because they were like everybody else going to the short floor content. Yes. But now being able to have those links back is gonna be really key to keep Pinterest growing in my humble opinion.

[00:14:13] But Kate, I want to go to the, there’s a great question from, because I think this is, like, this sums up a lot of people. This is from Brian. He goes, I’ve kind of stopped using Pinterest. Um, he says, I was getting around 8.5 million impressions and 15,000 plus outgoing clicks a month. But it wasn’t converting to anything helpful.

[00:14:31] Uh, but he said, maybe today we will revitalize him. So I know you get that question a lot. Like, yeah, listen, I, I started seeing some traction, but I’m just not converting. What do you tell people like.

[00:14:41] Kate Ahl: Yeah, I think this is the same thing I would tell people who are running it organically or paid is look at like why they aren’t converting.

[00:14:48] Are you getting the wrong type of traffic? Because that can happen too. I know people who have built their business on one element and then it turns into another element and you’re always getting the old, because Pinterest. Old pins do drive a lot of traffic. Mm-hmm. . So then if you think of all these people, let’s say those 15,000 plus that are landing on your website, why aren’t they doing anything?

[00:15:08] Like, what is it that you’re not converting them to? And I’m not saying it’s always on the end user, the creator to fix that, but I always think it’s good to interrogate it, to say, oh, why are they landing here and not doing anything? Am I. Am I missing the mark on what the intent of the Pinterest user is?

[00:15:24] Cause if we think about it, we’re always looking for cold leads, right? That’s what’s coming from Pinterest, is people who are cold and new to you, they need a little bit more convincing. So if I was in that position and I see a bunch of people coming to my site and they’re not converting, I ask myself, why am I talking to my warm only?

[00:15:41] And they feel like they’re. or is it the first thing I mentioned where maybe it’s just different type of content that I’m not talking about anymore. In that case, you can try to redirect them to a different place. We have had clients who have struggled with that to say, I used to be a soap maker and now I’m like totally different, right?

[00:16:00] But I get all soap. So I think it’s just a matter of kind of looking at it through that lens. And then, um, conversions are hard from Pinterest. I’m gonna be fully transparent about that. Like they. , like sometimes feel like an immovable mountain because they’re very intent on what they want and if they don’t get it, they’re bouncing away really quickly.

[00:16:20] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. Which can actually hurt your seo. Mm-hmm. . So you gotta make sure, like Kate was saying, that if you’re doing a product offer or a legion or a lead magnet, that they get there quickly. And remember, I think it’s probably close to 90%. It used to be 87% people are using their mobile device to search Pinterest.

[00:16:38] Yes. So you wanna. Everything is optimized for mobile. Mm-hmm. , uh, when you’re having them go to your landing page, nothing irritates me more than trying to find a, there’s a popup that covers what I’m trying to buy or something like, you know what I’m talking? Yes, exactly. It’s just like, oh my God. No wonder they’re bouncing because you’ve gotta check that stuff out and test it.

[00:16:56] Great question here from my pal, Jim. He goes, Um, can we use Amazon affiliate links on pinned? Oh, Jim, yes you can. My friend. Especially even on idea pin stickers, which is great because, and I’ll, and I’ll give a little inside baseball here cuz Jim and I talk about this a lot. is, um, um, with um, the new Aspire, um, app on Amazon, cuz they’re getting into short form content too.

[00:17:21] If you go to their app on their mobile, now you’re seeing almost TikTok talk like stuff. , you can use both of those for an idea pin and for that, um, on Amazon’s Aspire app. So yes, you can have those links. There are only like three affiliate, three or four different affiliate companies that Pinterest allows and Amazon is one of them, right, Kate?

[00:17:39] Mm-hmm.

[00:17:40] Kate Ahl: Yep. Mm-hmm. . It’s really

[00:17:42] Jeff Sieh: great. Yeah. So Jim, repurpose that content Anyway, sorry, inside baseball stuff. We’ll talk about Amazon later. I love, love my Amazon, so, so Pinterest. It was really weird when they canceled the, um, the, um, creator Rewards program. They said, Hey, we got, don’t worry, we’ve got other stuff coming this year.

[00:18:01] And then I, I kind, yeah. And then I looked at the webinar and I really, you know, was like, Hey, brands can notice you now. And you know, that kind of thing. And then Pinterest tv, which is really interesting. Uh, which I have signed up for, but I still don’t see how that can convert to sales or anything other than growing my account.

[00:18:20] Is there anything that you see on how we can make money coming up in 2023? Um, Kate with

[00:18:26] Kate Ahl: Pinterest? Yeah, that’s a really good, let me address the Pinterest TV really quickly because I think I had an aha moment about that. Mm-hmm. . It really just this, I saw it as a Streaming service instead of like alive, like we’re doing right here.

[00:18:39] Right, right. I was like, oh, that’s really interesting. I think to your Amazon point, it probably aligns more with selling that way. I don’t necessarily know how yet. Again, because you’re doing a lot of tutorials, but I’ll say, like they just said, they’re moving into Canada too as well, so for any Canadian listeners, they might be able to get on the ground floor there.

[00:18:57] Who? Um, but I would say as far as like making money, I think it’s gonna be all about looking at your content, looking at what you provide, and getting really strategic about that and trying to hook the user in with. Um, I still think blog posts work really well, to be honest. Like short form blog posts really allow people to come in and then buy your product.

[00:19:20] Um, shoppable pins are one that I know we’re gonna talk about. , I would say those are kind of, I just don’t know yet. Like I’m, I am kind of the jury still out. Right. Like, will there be something else that Pinterest releases? ? I’m just not quite sure.

[00:19:34] Jeff Sieh: I think they have to go, uh, in on shopping because mm-hmm.

[00:19:37] all the big, like Walmart’s coming out with them, all these stuff. And so if they can make a way for me to sell products or even affiliate products, like if I could go live to Amazon and Pinterest at the same time, oh my gosh. But there’s no. They got, like, you know on Amazon you have a carousel. Like if you’re watching us over on Amazon, you can go check that out@jeffc.live and you can see below us, we have all my podcasting stuff.

[00:19:58] We have my podcast is there and actually where you can click on stuff and you can actually subscribe to the podcast or you can get this microphone or whatever right below the live show. Pinterest needs to do something like that. Mm-hmm. , in my opinion, and because I think shopping. Just, it makes so much sense for Pinterest.

[00:20:15] Kate Ahl: So, yeah. And well, I will say search. So this is something too that if somebody’s totally new to Pinterest, just pick up your phone and spend 30 minutes looking at Pinterest on the app. Because what you get is two different search feeds. When you search things. You can choose from content and you can choose from shop like, uh, products.

[00:20:32] So I think that’s gonna be really interesting too, to see how your, your products get found in search on. And so spend 30 minutes just looking at the platform. I guarantee that will make you a way better marketer if you actually

[00:20:45] Jeff Sieh: use it. Yeah, and also what I would say too is especially if you’re wanting to do affiliate marketing or like Amazon stuff or whatever, and what I do is I go through and and look how the ones that are successful and I see more than once I see, okay, how are they doing their video, how long.

[00:21:02] What are they showcasing? How is it, you know, is it the more behind the scenes kind of stuff, or is it like really professional? The one thing I will say about Pinterest that’s different than any other platform is that people on their, they like brand content. You know, Mo, like on Facebook, people see brand stuff like, ugh, I don’t want, you know, dislike, whatever.

[00:21:20] It doesn’t matter. On Pinterest, if you have good content and it’s something somebody wants, they will click on

[00:21:24] Kate Ahl: it because you can’t tell, right? Right. Like even I’ve gone through the feed and I click on something and it’s a promoted pin, and. Or Pinterest dad, they don’t use that word anymore, but I was like, what?

[00:21:34] This is an ad. Like it’s very native to where you kind of don’t know, which, that’s a sign of a great advertiser. Right, right. Yeah. So I, I just think that’s gonna be interesting to see, um, how that ecosystem comes together. Yeah,

[00:21:48] Jeff Sieh: totally. Grace, you had, you wanna bring up a comment? Yes.

[00:21:51] Grace Duffy: I wanted to bring up, we have a couple questions here.

[00:21:54] Uh, one is from Caitlin. She is saying she’s asking personal boards versus group boards. I’m struggling to know where to pin stuff when I do pin,

[00:22:02] Kate Ahl: so what is, yeah, personal boards hand down personal boards a hundred percent.

[00:22:06] Jeff Sieh: Our group board’s even a thing anymore. Uh,

[00:22:10] Kate Ahl: I mean, we don’t leverage them just because mm-hmm.

[00:22:13] we feel like it’s that real estate thing, like just plant on your own land. And obviously Pinterest isn’t your land, but let’s say your profile. Right? Right. Yeah. So you wanna use it with that, cuz you’re gonna leverage. You know your board, your keywords, and when Pinterest is searching for new content, they’re taking in the board name and the pins in there, and they’re gonna show that to people who might be interested, even if they don’t follow you.

[00:22:36] So if you have your content on a group board and Pinterest is pulling a ton of stuff from this group board, yours might get missed. So I just think the only time they’re really good is if you know the owner. There’s just a few of you and you all have the same goal to elevate each other. Those big massive group boards that used to exist with like hundreds of contributors.

[00:22:56] Oh my gosh. Just ditch ’em. Yeah.

[00:22:59] Jeff Sieh: So that’s, I know we’re talking

[00:23:00] Kate Ahl: That’s the,

[00:23:01] Grace Duffy: so we, that’s the like the at everything when people do that on

[00:23:03] Kate Ahl: Facebook, . Yes, totally.

[00:23:06] Jeff Sieh: So I mean, it. If we are getting too nerdy for you, let us know the comments, but we’re, cuz we’re talking about like group boards, we’re talking about pinning and all that stuff.

[00:23:14] If we need to calm down a little bit, cuz we get really nerdy on the show and , we, Kate and I have been on Pinterest a long time and we see what’s changing. Make sure you say, Hey, put the breaks on guys and tell me what did you mean, uh, let us know in the comments. But, um, Brian has a great point that he says, you know, it’s always cuz he’s in Barce.

[00:23:31] uh, watching on YouTube, he says there’s always a bit of frustration in the past. Pinterest seems so US focused and doesn’t think they’re have any people in other countries. So yeah. Is any of this stuff, do you know, when it’s rolling out to other people? Like, um, you know, some of the, I mean, even some of the targeting I know with ads is only us mm-hmm.

[00:23:47] and like Canada and some other places, so, Do you have any idea on that, Kate? Yeah.

[00:23:51] Kate Ahl: I always tend to see that they go like US Canada, then like uk, Australia, but in a lot of their stock investor, I read a lot of those, which are super boring, but they talk about where they’re gonna do future initiatives and.

[00:24:05] South American countries and Spanish speaking countries were also another push that they were gonna make last year and into this year. So I think we will continue to see it kind of slowly roll out, but I think Pinterest is being careful to say like, well, do these markets respond in the same way that a US and Canadian market, Do and that’s something they have to consider.

[00:24:25] And you do see them growing globally in numbers that, I mean obviously the US North American market is, its fastest growing, but you are seeing expand into all these other countries. But again, it might look, not look like the same expansion plan that we had because we might respond a little bit differently to features.

[00:24:43] But my, um, guess based on everything that they’ve said is they’ll just kind of continue to roll out the targeting. They’ll roll out idea. But they just wanna be super careful. Trends now is a tool that they have, which is, I think uk, US and Canada. I imagine that will get more robust over the next year.

[00:25:00] Yeah.

[00:25:01] Jeff Sieh: So I mean, it’s, uh, we got so much to talk about. So, and, and Brian goes, uh, no, keep the energy going. So he’s saying we’re fine and we’re, we’re not doing, we’re not nerding out too much for people. Um, one of the things, um, uh, Jim asked a great question. He goes, uh, do you have a book I should read about Pinterest nerds?

[00:25:17] I don’t have a. Uh, but Kate’s podcast, I’m

[00:25:21] Kate Ahl: supposed to be, no. Um, I do have a podcast. Yeah, six years. But a book is coming. A book is coming. I actually did approach, this is very interesting. I approached, uh, an editor about this and we were talking through and the response was, there’s just not enough buzz around Pinterest.

[00:25:35] And it’s like, oh, that just hurts my heart because I know that like TikTok and Instagram and Meta, they all get the buzz. You know, Grace, you said this earlier, like, it’s just that like sleeping giant in the background that’s like people are really crushing it and growing with the platform, but it’s not this loud thing that’s out there.

[00:25:54] Jeff Sieh: Right, right. Because there’s not a lot of negative stuff about Pinterest, really. I mean, it’s a place where, yeah, you don’t have fake news. You don’t have, you

[00:26:00] Kate Ahl: don’t have crazy CEOs . Right, exactly. No,

[00:26:03] Grace Duffy: exactly. No, we don’t have crazy CEOs. But, and yeah, and it’s actually, you know, it, it’s one of, it’s been known as to be one of those channels that doesn’t have the toxicity or the negativity that you see on other platforms, and we’re gonna get into that in a, in our next segment here.

[00:26:16] But that’s, that’s one of the things, it’s just, it’s just a

[00:26:20] Jeff Sieh: reliable thing. The other thing, Jim, so if you’re looking for, you know, Kate’s podcast really, really good, uh, per blog articles at Simple Pin Media. Com really, really good. Tailwind has some great articles as well, so I would check out those places if you’re wanting to understand and, and dive in.

[00:26:36] Even Pinterest site, like business.pinterest.com, they have some great stuff as well as of targeting and like understanding the terms cuz they have changed the terms. I mean Kate and I will say the wrong things because they’ve changed it so many times. Re yeah. Yes. And whatever, you know, it’s the same thing.

[00:26:49] Yeah. But anyway, um, something that hasn’t. is our friends over at Ecamm, so I wanna make sure to give them a big shout out At socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm. Ecamm. It was such a smooth transition. It was. They’re ones who make us, help us sponsor the show. They, they allow us to do this program. Um, they’re just so great.

[00:27:06] We’re going live everywhere. We have a ton of people comments that I can see because of Ecamm. So socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm, check them out, but. We do have a comment. Some really good questions here. So, uh, Tamson says, really basic question, for a small e-commerce business, what is the ideal minimum number of pins a day and is it still okay to reppin the same pin to different ports?

[00:27:30] I know you get this question a lot as well, Kate. So every day,

[00:27:33] Kate Ahl: yeah. Take it away. So I would say for e-commerce, it’s gonna depend on how many pins you have, either images or leading to content leading to your shop that you have. What we tell people is you don’t wanna like flood your users with the same pin over and over and over again.

[00:27:50] So it’s okay for you to do one to two pins a day, and yes, you can repeat them to another board in the future, maybe like two weeks or three weeks apart. Some people use scheduling tools, but you have some people in the past who have said, you need to do so many pins per day, but we’ve really found that that really didn’t help you anymore.

[00:28:08] Correct. So you really wanna go with, if you’re, if you’re somebody who’s a content creator and you have five years worth of blogging every single week, you got a lot that you can pin. But for the e-commerce seller, what we say is, Maybe two a day. If you can create different types of images that you can play with that get people into checking out your shop, whether it’s showing a collection or even whether it’s talking about the features of your product.

[00:28:35] Don’t underestimate short form blog posts that you can just write about, like, Hey, how to pick the perfect gene, or what to look for in a natural vegan soap. Like people are asking those questions, not necessarily your. , you know, certain type of gene or whatever. So leverage your text on those images too, cuz Pinterest with their visual search tool, reads the text on those images as

[00:29:00] Jeff Sieh: well.

[00:29:00] Yeah, and this is my high horse and Alisa always gave me hard time about this. Don’t use scripty fonts, let Pinterest read your text. Don’t do that Instagramy. Scripty stuff, so let, because they read it. It’s the, the AI is reading that stuff. You wanna make it as easy as possible because it does help you with search.

[00:29:17] This is a great question because I don’t know the answers to this and I’m really confused about their app. Okay, so Jonathan goes, how does Shuffles relate to Pinterest?

[00:29:26] Kate Ahl: Okay. Do you want me to tell you what I think

[00:29:28] Jeff Sieh: my theory is? First, tell what Shuffles is and then I wanted to hold your theory,

[00:29:32] Kate Ahl: what it is.

[00:29:32] Okay. Shuffle. Think of shuffles like a mood board. Like think of it like your vision board. You’re bringing in different things to create what you want. It would be perfect for somebody who’s building a kitchen and they could kind of drag and drop images into this particular. Pin, it looks the same size to see how things go together or ways to express yourself.

[00:29:53] So that’s how, or think of tearing things out of a magazine and gluing them onto a page. That’s almost exactly what it is, and it helps people take, let’s say, a pin that you have. Pull out like a faucet and drag it over into this particular image so you can start to piece things together. It’s not a marketer tool, it’s simply a regular user tool to have fun with.

[00:30:17] I think it was just Pinterest tech team having a little bit of fun. . That’s right. I don’t really see yeah, what the future’s gonna be, but um, it’s a mood. That’s really it.

[00:30:27] Jeff Sieh: And it’s really, the technology is pretty interesting. It’s just kind of weird. I don’t think it helps your account or hurts it any way, but I, I agree with Kate.

[00:30:33] Like I think it’s, it’s, it is what, it’s all right. That’s a fun, I’ve been getting shadowed out at my, in the notes, but we gotta move on because I, I nerd out about this stuff. And so, uh, we’re gonna talk about Pinterest advertising and. There’s a question which question you want me to bring up? Uh

[00:30:47] Kate Ahl: oh, no, I

[00:30:47] Grace Duffy: was gonna lead into Caitlin’s question.

[00:30:49] Okay. Because this kind of leads up to it. So, okay. Our next segment is going to talk about advertising on Pinterest, which of course is a big deal when you are a small brand or e-commerce brand. So some news coming out of Pinterest. We are a new show after all. Uh, it has a new C, not a crazy ceo, just a normal regular CEO that’s doing CEO things.

[00:31:10] So Pinterest co-founder Bill. Silverman stepped down as the C Nurse’s placed by Bill Redi, who is a former Google Commerce payments chief. And before that he was PayPal, c o o to give you any idea of where the company is wanting to go. And while at Google Ready’s team did a good job of overhauling Google shopping and payment services, hint, hint, businesses.

[00:31:33] So, although his, uh, tenured Pinterest has been. Early. It’s, uh, early days. He has been very good about outlining a compelling vision of attracting more publishers and content creators to Pinterest growing video sharing and viewing, and perhaps most important of all to those listening, making it possible to buy just about any consumer product that a user might.

[00:31:59] while searching or browsing on Pinterest. So this layered on the fact that a lot of businesses are looking to move their ad budgets away from meta or other platforms, uh, or at the very least, diversify their ad spend. Pinterest is looking very, very interesting, especially when you pay attention to their results from last year.

[00:32:19] Showed a lot of great progress thanks to those shoppable ads and video content. So, Mr. Reddy, On point there, but, so tell our audience why they should be looking at Pinterest in 2023. And then of course, as promise Caitlin’s question here, where’s the growth coming from? Uh, when it comes to pin actually driving traffic to your website, she’s asking regular pins, idea pins, video product, where is the roi?

[00:32:44] So I thought that that question was, was a, a lead was a good lead into that.

[00:32:51] Kate Ahl: Yeah, so I would say looking at the landscape of all the pin formats that you have, there’s like a standard pin is your foundation. They’re always gonna be the driving, the most amount of traffic from Pinterest. And that’s primarily because we have those idea pins layered on and they didn’t link, right?

[00:33:05] Mm-hmm. . But now they’ll link and we just don’t know how that will affect it. We kind of see video pins. Kind of in this weird like merge. We kind of think they’ll be merged into idea pins in the future. Anyway, people were using them because they linked, but what we found is they really didn’t get as many good results.

[00:33:20] And then we have Pinterest ads that kind of takes it to the next level. So I think when it comes to. , um, if you want me to jump straight into Pinterest ads, yeah, that’s Sure. People moving their budget away. I would say the, on the number one thing you need to know is that Pinterest ads take a long time to optimize.

[00:33:40] So what that means is a Facebook ad or an Instagram ad can take a couple of hours. A Pinterest ad takes two weeks. So when you go into advertising on Pinterest, what you wanna know is that your first four weeks at least, are just gathering. , that’s it. You just wanna know like who’s interacting with my pin, which ones are converting?

[00:33:59] And you wanna think top of funnel. You wanna think, I don’t know you, I don’t know anything about you. So if you approach your ad with more cold language or I just saw this great app, the Hemingway app that has you, right? Like people are in third grade, it’s like right that way for your Pinterest ad and help people convert.

[00:34:18] I think that’s a better way to begin. A long-term strategy with Pinterest. And I’ll always tell people too, Pinterest marketing in general takes six to eight months to gain steam. It is certainly not quick. It’s, there’s no dopamine hits. You’re not gonna feel all that great, right? So the same is gonna happen with Pinterest ads.

[00:34:37] You might look at it and say, we’ve had clients come to us and say, I do not wanna give Facebook any of my. , great. Well, when they come over to Pinterest ads and they begin to do it, they get scared, they get nervous, they’re like, why isn’t this doing anything yet? It’s like, well, you gotta let it ramp up.

[00:34:53] You gotta let the pixel warm up. You have to let these things happen. So yes, I think there’s a lot of great lucrative opportunities in Pinterest ads, but you have to like buckle up. It’s gonna be three to four months for you to figure. what’s working and not working. But once that happens, those ads can convert really, really great for a low cost per day depending on what you’re selling, right?

[00:35:16] You’re not gonna throw $5 a day at an ad and sell a hundred dollars product, so you have to have the comparison. We also tell people with Pinterest ads have a very strong conversion metric, whether it’s to your email list and you know how much you wanna spend or whether it is to your product, and you know how much you wanna spend.

[00:35:34] Jeff Sieh: Hmm. Those are great advice. Is it still this the case, uh, Kate that uh, cause it’s been a while since I’ve been in Pinterest advertising that one of the benefits of Pinterest is when you quit your ads, um, if somebody pinned those to your board, they don’t go away. It’s like, correct. It, it like if I had an ad running, like, Hey, join my mastermind and I ran it for a week and during that week Grace pinned it to one of her boards to save for later.

[00:35:58] It doesn’t go away when my ad stops. Right? And so that’s one of the big benefits I think of Pinterest. .

[00:36:04] Kate Ahl: Yeah. Cuz you can also take something that you’ve pinned just organically and you see it’s doing really well and you’re like, oh man, I, this is leading to some conversions. I wanna put some lift behind it.

[00:36:16] Now I’m gonna run an ad. Mm-hmm. and I’m gonna run with it. You can also do a totally separate ad that you start cold a long time ago. We used to say that you had to do organic for a long time before you could step into ads. That’s not the case anymore. If you wanna start your Pinterest account today, optimize your.

[00:36:33] Figure out what you wanna target. You could be running ads by the end of next.

[00:36:36] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It’s, it’s really, I mean, and I know that, and, and Grace mentioned at the beginning that a lot of the stuff with, uh, you know, Facebook and other platforms, a lot of the big brands, you’ll see them man on Black Friday and leading up to Christmas, Pinterest, yeah.

[00:36:51] Is, there’s a ton of great stuff then. Ton of ads. I mean, most of my feed was mostly promoted, you know, ads or whatever. Yeah. So I thought it was, Really interesting. It’s probably, and it’s also how I train the algorithm cause I’m looking at that stuff, right? So , they’re like a jackpot service. Like, oh, him, he, he’s got stuff that we want to give him.

[00:37:11] Uh, so yeah. By the way, so Pinterest ads, I mean ads in general on any platform can be overwhelming, but I know that you have some resources, Kate, that I wanna make sure people know about, so, yes. Can you talk about your, you have a course actually on Pinterest, dad.

[00:37:27] Kate Ahl: Yeah, we actually, uh, membership because we realized a course was not the best way to teach because there’s so much troubleshooting and

[00:37:33] Jeff Sieh: it changes all the

[00:37:34] Kate Ahl: time.

[00:37:35] Yes, all the time. And there’s different types of ads that people can do. So we have this free ads, Pinterest ads checklist. I think it got reversed there. Um, or maybe I typed it. Let me make sure I got the right link for you. Okay. I’ll change it. Nope, you got it. No, no. You got it. You got it. Okay. Good. . So one of the things we wanted to do was just give people a checklist before they started.

[00:37:53] Like at least just do these things first because people were so frustrated diving in. They’re like, where do I go? And it is so much easier. We think it’s easier than Facebook, right? Mm-hmm. . And it’s totally different inside the ads dashboard too, and like which one you’re gonna pick. So this checklist, it’s totally free.

[00:38:12] Go grab it, at least look through it and. Oh yeah, I’m gonna do it, or I’m gonna do these things that are gonna lay the foundation before I dive into Pinterest. .

[00:38:21] Jeff Sieh: Great. That’s a great, great resource. So for those of you who are listening on the podcast, it is simple pined.com for slash ads dash pinterest dash checklist.

[00:38:31] That’s simple. Pin media.com/ads, dash pinterest dash checklist, and I’ll try to put that in the show notes as well. But, uh, wanna make sure you guys have that resource because like I said, and you can probably tell Kate’s a smart cookie and she knows what’s going on over on Pinterest. So, um, as we continue with, you know, talking about ads and making money and all that stuff on Pinterest, So they did shut down the crater rewards program, but it’s still going with the shoppable.

[00:38:56] Is it? Is it still called shoppable now? Idea Pins. Um, and then you can convert. Oh yeah. Have to tag them. Okay. And then you can also convert those idea pins into ads. Mm-hmm. . So can you talk about like, The pluses, minuses of each of these opportunities. Like how can creators leverage the, the ads to earn an income from themselves?

[00:39:13] Like, you know, everybody’s trying to, you know, diversify. And Pinterest I think is a great place to do that. So how can, uh, Pinterest use these, uh, tools to advertise and sell their products?

[00:39:25] Kate Ahl: Yeah, I would say number one is gonna be you’re just gonna want to, uh, before you even dive into ads or shoppable pins, there are idea pin ads.

[00:39:34] Like you said, there’s all these different formats. Figure out what people are engaging with as far as like what leads to making money, right? So that means just like regular pins get your system, get your groove, and go, okay, yeah, this is what I got. Then do those idea pins with product taking. So if you are an e.

[00:39:53] Seller and you are not connecting your shop. This is something we haven’t talked about. Connecting your shop on Pinterest is so, so important. Um, I will say if you have a third party platform like you’re using like Etsy or T p t, you cannot connect your shop. But if you are using WooCommerce or Shopify, yeah, those integrations are super slick and they’re easy.

[00:40:16] So easy. Yeah, we just did it. So I wanted to figure out how this whole shop thing on Pinterest works. So I started my own Shopify store with our digital products, which Pinterest is very digital product friendly, right? Whereas Facebook and Instagram are not. So what that gives you is you can join the verified merchant program and get a shop tab.

[00:40:34] And as you know Jeff, one of the things that people would always ask was, okay, I’m a small seller. People pin my stuff, but when they click on it, it’s. Stock. How do I change that? Can I go out and fix those pins? And we’re like, no, they’re out there forever. This verified merchant program and the shop tab allows you to update all of your content, whether it’s price or inventory.

[00:40:56] So I would say any e-commerce seller, Get your shop connected if you can. You can even do a manual upload on Pinterest, and that unlocks some more ways that you can tag. Then you can look if you want to run an ad behind a particular product that’s selling or behind a particular regular ad that converts to a product that sells.

[00:41:16] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I would say I have actually had a, I did the same thing. I had a t-shirt shop that I made just to test stuff with Pinterest, and my thing is, if you, if you have any sort of store e-commerce store, especially if it’s a Shopify store mm-hmm. , it’s a no-brainer to be on Pinterest. I mean, it just really is.

[00:41:29] You can take all those products, images, and make them pins. I mean, it’s just, and it’s. I built these e-commerce websites back in the day and it was a nightmare. It is so easy with Shopify .

[00:41:42] Kate Ahl: I can do it. Oh, it’s amazing. Oh yeah. It’s like the worst. It’s awesome. Um, the last thing I’ll say about Pinterest ads that I think is really, really important.

[00:41:51] Is, it’s really important to frame up where people are hitting the ad. And this, for me, as I was talking with my ads director, she was like, you know, Pinterest is very top of funnel and bottom of funnel. It’s not a lot in the middle. Mm-hmm. , there’s this weird thing where it’s really hard to like warm people up, like people don’t care about you.

[00:42:09] And it sounds weird to say that, but like they really don’t. They’re only looking to serve themselves. I’m not interested in searching out a brand or I. Interested in searching out a particular influencer. I’m looking for this aha moment at the top, like, oh, I didn’t even know that was possible. Mm-hmm. . And then you can retarget them later.

[00:42:30] once they’ve known you’re possible, you know, like, or hey, do you want, you know, they’re more engaged with it if they come to your website, and then you can retarget them later. But that’s a really important distinguisher. Mm-hmm. is that, that middle, it just doesn’t really work. Mm-hmm. ,

[00:42:43] Grace Duffy: that’s great. When you said it, you said it best at the beginning of the show where people are coming to Pinterest with a question, right?

[00:42:48] Like, I want a new light fixture. What’s gonna look good? I, you know, I’m ready to buy my new light fixture. I’m, I wanna find it and buy it right now. So, uh, . Absolutely spot on. We have a question here from Tampson.

[00:43:01] Jeff Sieh: You have? Yeah. I wanna bring up this Is this, so just for Sammy, cuz she’s like, this is, Jean is putting a lot of focus in 2023 on digital projects.

[00:43:07] Excited Travis. Well thanks Sammy for that comment and yeah, to solve, we’re here to solve

[00:43:11] Kate Ahl: problems. That’s right. Yeah. .

[00:43:13] Jeff Sieh: So this doing it with you, do you wanna take this question from, uh, Tampson?

[00:43:16] Grace Duffy: Sure. Tampson, see she’s. They ask in terms of idea pins. I, I’ve seen many of them just being one slide, often a video taken from Instagram or TikTok, but my understanding is that Pinterest refers multiple slides.

[00:43:29] Is that true?

[00:43:31] Kate Ahl: Okay, so there’s what Pinterest says it prefers and what gets engagement, right? Yes. You always have to take those two. I will say, number one, any of the platforms, they don’t want other platforms content. They’ve been all very clear about that. Yes. They’re like, if you’re creating something for our platform, make sure it’s.

[00:43:48] For our platform, right? Yes. So you wanna obviously create natively, not just take your TikTok and pull it over, right? However, users are finding that Pinterest is the best place to save things and TikTok creates that aha moments. So they are having to save their tos. onto their Pinterest boards cuz they don’t wanna forget it.

[00:44:06] So I think some of that native user habits are happening there. So you might see some of that. That being said, we do know some users where they upload one video into one slide and it’s doing really well for them. But we also know people that have more. Step by steps that are doing anywhere from five to seven slides and they are getting good conversions.

[00:44:26] This is where you’re gonna have to test it. We’ve done both. And I will say this too, for a long time we used to say, don’t show your face on Pinterest. Right? We’re seeing some good engagement with people talking. However, it cannot be about your day. Can’t be this like right, here’s what’s happening and blah, blah, blah.

[00:44:44] But if you’re doing a step by. or you’re walking people through a house project or something like that, you can definitely talk and show your face. We’re actually seeing pretty good engagement on that. Yeah, I

[00:44:55] Jeff Sieh: think it’s the TikTok, um, the, uh, symptoms or whatever, because that didn’t used to be the, I mean, I remember working for companies where we’d actually take the photos of like their, uh, fashion and chop off their heads because people wanted to see themselves in that photo.

[00:45:11] Uh, so I, it’s really interesting how it’s changed. It’s changing over on Pinterest. The other thing I would say, in that same note, if you’re creating that vertical video content, create it on your phone without the water. Like without TikTok and then you can use it for Pinterest, Amazon, Amazon’s really highlighting vertical video now.

[00:45:28] And then, um, uh, it’s scam, reel, all that stuff. Shorts, uh, shorts. Yeah, exactly. So, um, do it one time and there’s nothing wrong as long as you don’t have that watermark, uh, to put it in different places and, you know, save yourself, uh, a little bit of time doing it that way. Mm-hmm. . So. Alright. This show is just flying by.

[00:45:45] So we’ve gotta go to the next section. Um, but we’re gonna talk about trends, and I’ll just say this really quick about trends is Pinterest trends. In fact, I’ve noticed in some of my like, um, apps that I use to like figure out stuff with Amazon, they’re actually using Pinterest. Trends data to tell you what’s coming up.

[00:46:04] Yes. So, yeah, Pinterest has got, its, its, you know, especially if you’re looking at specific niches and stuff, and I’ll tell a story later if we have time, but, uh, this is really, really exciting. So, Grace, you wanted to talk about this, I know. Yes. It’s

[00:46:15] Grace Duffy: called Pinterest Predicts, and if you haven’t found it, go to the Pinterest blog and go look.

[00:46:19] For Pinterest, for Dicks, and as it is done every December for the last three years, it has published its annual review of what is the latest rising trends, and this is all set to become very significant over the coming year. Now, all of this is based on user behavior. On Pinterest, including pin saved boards, created an overall search activity, and Pinterest is uniquely placed as you can imagine, to highlight the next big thing before it happens.

[00:46:47] And indeed, Pinterest has said, because this is the third year they’ve done this, that its annual predictors re. Predictions are reportedly 80% accurate based on the engagement volume, those following years. So if you look at this up, there’s pool parties for your puppies. There’s airy styles for fashion, and then two-toned hair.

[00:47:08] And I wanted to get your take, Kate, on what trans stand out to you and why there was plenty of.

[00:47:16] Kate Ahl: There are plenty of them. I think what stands out to me most in all the trends is I like that they’re not just honing in on one generation. You see mentions of Gen Z, you see mentions of millennials, you see mentions of Gen X, which I am, and even Boomer.

[00:47:30] So I think they realize in these trends that there’s a multi-generational platform thing happening. And they, they really touch on it. Now, here’s the way that I look at it. There’s the high level. Pinterest comes up with their really catchy name, like dopamine dressing that thing, . That was hilarious. But I have to say, I picked up a magazine yesterday in my son’s orthodontist office and I opened it.

[00:47:53] This. Section and what do I see, which is dopamine dressing. I was like, oh, I guess they are having some influence on other things, but what you wanna look for in these is what’s underneath, because that’s where you get the terms. So don’t look so much at the picture or the catchy title at the top go. What was the increase in this particular topic, or what was the term that was used?

[00:48:14] People are constantly asking us, is there a Pinterest keyword tool? Is there a way like a Google AdWords or anything like that, or Google keywords that I can. , this is it. Like you wanna go in and try to get some ideas. Now, I will say this, there’s some caution with it because when you are a creator or a seller, you have your ideal consumer in mind.

[00:48:35] So when you look at this, go to that section first and just get ideas, right? Don’t really create four Pinterest, because I think that’s a easy trap that we can get into, and I think the Creator Rewards Program kind of lended into that a little bit. But create for your audience and then look to see what terms people on Pinterest are

[00:48:53] Jeff Sieh: using.

[00:48:54] Yeah, and the other thing is, and I’ll tell my story now, is that, um, and I, cuz I use Pinterest trends all the time, so if you wanna look at some really great datas, go to trends.pinterest.com. Uh, that will give you kind of their trends tool. And it’s not, it’s different from the report that they put out at the beginning year.

[00:49:09] This is like their dashboard where you can see what’s trending and what time of year and all this stuff. Um, what I did is, a long time ago I looked and I saw that, um, and remember Pinterest stuff, like, it hits like, what is it, four months before the holidays? Usually he starts going and I was looking on it and I saw, okay, they’re doing Christmas tree kind of stuff.

[00:49:27] And I went, Hmm. And then I read another article that said there was going to be a Pinterest tree, I mean a Christmas tree shortage. This year, and I went, oh. And so I bought a bunch of artificial trees. Um, and I did Amazon reviews on ’em, and I sold a bunch of them during the holidays. But that’s because I looked at Pinterest trends and that’s what, what, what Kate was just saying.

[00:49:50] Is you look at the underlying data and you look at other articles and you kind of combine it together and you go, oh, I may have an opportunity here. And so that’s what this tool is using. And a lot of, I’m like I’m saying, a lot of these other companies are looking@trends.pinterest.com because they’re seeing that the benefit of that data.

[00:50:06] So if there’s one thing that Kada said that is it this, this time is, I mean, all our stuff’s good. Look at the data and, and, and look at the underlying stuff that is, you know, maybe not that, that certain keyword, but what is underneath it that’s, that could really help your, your business

[00:50:21] Kate Ahl: or your product.

[00:50:22] Well, and I think what you said, Jeff, what it is, is it jogs creativity. Right? And oftentimes as creators and entrepreneurs, we are. Running at full speed all the time and we hit these points of burnout where we’re like, I don’t even know what to write. I don’t know what to create. I don’t know what to do.

[00:50:37] When you look through that, it should jog some creativity of what to do next, and I just think there’s so much power in that. I do have to say I’ve been skeptical of it the last couple of years. The, well, the first year they put it out, I was like, of course they’re predicting it will do well. Right. They control the algorithm.

[00:50:54] Right, exactly. But, but I, but we have seen it flood over into other industries. Mm-hmm. , so now I will give it a little more

[00:51:01] Jeff Sieh: credit. Yeah. I mean, it is a big, now it’s become a big PR thing for them. Mm-hmm. . Yes. Uh, and, and that’s great. But, but I still like trends.interest.com, um, going into there and seeing stuff, because a lot of times when you mentioned the creativity and finding things to write, Because it, it’s so Pinterest hits, I mean, if hit, if it hits before Walmart pulls out their Christmas stuff, you know, there’s, they have, that’s what I go on is like, if it’s before Walmart pulls out their Christmas and Halloween stuff and it’s already on Pinterest, like two months before, that gives me an advantage.

[00:51:31] So if you see something on Pinterest that you’re like, I haven’t seen that anywhere yet, but you can see the, the logic of that, it could hit then write content, create content on that. Get it out there early before everybody else does, and you can reap the benefits. Yep. So, Alrighty. What did I, did I, did I, um, talk too much?

[00:51:51] Let’s see. No question. You got everything in. I’m excited about this stuff. Can you tell I am, yeah. Very excited about this stuff. Um, before we, we, uh, wrap stuff up, Kate, I wanna let, I want you to talk a little bit about, you know, what you’ve got going on your podcast Yes. Where people can find you, um, any other like goodies you have.

[00:52:07] The floor is yours. Uh, I know you impressed a ton of people, so we’ll let you, we’ll let you.

[00:52:13] Kate Ahl: Well, I think for us this year what we’re looking at is again, what you brought up, um, Grace with the new c e o, how the new c e o moves a little bit quicker than the previous one. And I think especially with e-commerce, we’re leaning into not only testing our own things with e-commerce, but serving people with tools that are really bite size, like how to set up your shop.

[00:52:32] We do have the simple pin shop.com where you can buy any of our. Past workshops or templates or anything like that. But we’re really looking to see, again, two creators. How can people make money on Pinterest and getting creative about that? Thinking about brands wanting to match with creators, where the shifting budgets are going.

[00:52:49] So for us, we are still looking to serve clients through our management@simplepinmedia.com, but also really looking to help people. , either get back on Pinterest or leverage it this year as a really strategic arm of their business. Our philosophy is that we know you have your website as your hub, and there’s all these different spokes.

[00:53:09] Pinterest is just one spoke, and it’s very different than all the rest. So when we teach that, we’re very much caring of your business, your center, and how we can really help that grow. And I just think Pinterest has been, people have been sleeping on Pinterest for a long time. I know. Or they’ve given up on it.

[00:53:26] Somebody asked me yesterday, they’re like, are you gonna get kind of bullish about Pinterest? And I was like, I don’t know, maybe, maybe I’m a little more bold this year. Like, what are we waiting for?

[00:53:35] Jeff Sieh: Well, I’ve always, and I talked to Elise about this too, Lisa Meredith, who’ve had on the show before is like mm-hmm.

[00:53:39] It’s more for us if people like poo poo in it all the time and all these agencies and stuff. I’m like, Hey, that’s fine with me.

[00:53:45] Grace Duffy: So I’ll, I’ll add this. This was from my research for the show. It’s, it’s from Digiday, which is a very, uh, prominent publication. Yeah. Marketing. And it a, this quote says, the platform is more brand safe with all the ad capabilities of.

[00:53:59] I mean, come on. Right. More brand safe. And I think that’s a big selling point, especially for smaller brands, solopreneurs, you know, that may not have the time or resources to go after. I’ll just say negativity in general. Right? Just in general. Mm-hmm. without getting too into it. And so I think Pinterest does a great job keeping its platform brand safe on point, focused positive.

[00:54:22] You even see in the trends, like it’s all very uplifting. People go to Pinterest because they want to like dream and aspire

[00:54:29] Kate Ahl: so well, and one thing I think Pinterest said in just they updated kind of not their best practices, but it’s kind of like they’re about page. Yeah. And Pinterest had this great line in there that it was like, where’d it go for putting that in?

[00:54:41] They said Pinterest is the app you don’t delete in a social media detox. It’s the one you keep . That’s good. And I was like, Like finally they’re playing up their strengths, right? You’re right. Yeah. Because people know there’s no negative conversation. You’re not gonna be really mad at your neighbor down the street cuz you can’t believe they said what they said, cuz you saw it on Facebook, her Instagram.

[00:55:01] You just get to be in your own. You get to curate your own world and life. It’s awesome.

[00:55:08] Grace Duffy: Yeah. Jeff, I can’t believe you pinned those Christmas trees. I know.

[00:55:12] Kate Ahl: That’s the thing. There was

[00:55:13] Grace Duffy: a, there was an ad campaign Pinterest just did with, with a company called Amplify, and the whole thing was like, it’s different here.

[00:55:20] And it really leverages that, that idea of like, it is different here. It’s a breath of fresh hair. You’re right. I’m not worried about what anyone else is doing or pinning or whatever. Right. And it’s just such a, it’s a, it’s a really great place. So I think, and it drives, . It does. I’m sorry. And it drives traffic.

[00:55:34] It drives sales, it drives sales, not just traffic sales stuff.

[00:55:38] Jeff Sieh: So, Kate, I wanted to ask you before we kind of wrap everything up, is like, what is your, uh, perfect client? Like when, you know, when somebody comes to you, what is your like perfect person that like, oh, we love it when they come and ask us, you know, to help ’em out.

[00:55:50] Kate Ahl: Yeah, so I would say it’s this blend right now of somebody who is an e-commerce seller, but a content creator. So they have a story element, a blog element about their products, and they’re willing to kind of put these things two together. And they also have the long term mindset. They’re not looking for a quick win.

[00:56:08] They see Pinterest as an investment for the long haul, and they’re ready to say, , I’m gonna go all in. I’m gonna create great images, but I’m gonna test things. I’m willing to look at the data. And what we find, and you just said it, Jeff, is that Google and Pinterest are the top two traffic drivers. And if you look at, if we put Pinterest in social media, , it is a top traffic driver of all the social medias out there, right?

[00:56:30] So that client understands that they can get that traffic from Pinterest and they’re gonna do something with it. And we’re really trying to assess, let’s say we do go into a recession. I don’t know, there’s all this conversation about it. Yeah. What are the recession proof industries and people that we see?

[00:56:46] Um, We’ll really weather this storm, we’re looking at that too as well. Like how can we really serve them and help them really make more sales up the platform, but also just really generally grow their brand.

[00:56:57] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Yeah, that’s great. Uh, cuz you know, a lot of times like, okay, who is your, your best client is really important because you know, those people can, you can match ’em up.

[00:57:06] So we have this last question from VA vacation, and this is. Question, do you find you have to give more time to your clients now because the platform only wants fresh pins instead of repinning? Because that was a big deal. Like we scheduled a lot of stuff, but now it’s,

[00:57:20] Kate Ahl: it was a big deal. It’s not a big deal anymore, so no, we don’t find it.

[00:57:23] Actually, we’ve reduced the number of pins per day and we found it hasn’t even made an impact to, um, content. What we want to do is have people create images that are gonna connect and we find it doesn’t take more, it just takes creativity in how we position the words as we talked about earlier. Pins, some clients will come to us.

[00:57:41] I think this is an important thing to know. People will come to us with older ideas of how Pinterest used to work, and they’ll be convinced that that still works today. But that’s not really the landscape of how Pinterest works right now. It’s more diversification of pin formats, different types of approaches, less, um, I kind of, the fresh pin thing I kind of wish would die ,

[00:58:02] Jeff Sieh: right?

[00:58:03] Yeah, I got it. I get it. Alright, so the la the one thing, make sure you go, uh, check out, uh, Kate’s podcast at Simple Pin podcast. Do you have any special guests coming up that you want to shout out before. I mean you usually schedule out like way ahead.

[00:58:16] Kate Ahl: We do, we do. We actually have one of our clients, our food client, Susie from Mediterranean Dish, her story and how she grew on Pinterest is coming out in February and I almost cried in the middle of the story, but it’s just a really cool, a story of how she started with content, moved into e-commerce and is really now has a cookbook and is really serving her audience really well, but knows their own Pinterest in a strategic way too.

[00:58:42] Like she found out how people. Finding her through searches. So that’s coming up, uh, mid-February.

[00:58:47] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. So make sure to go check out Simple Pin Podcast, uh, wherever you get your podcast and give Kate a nice rating and review. And thank say that Jeff CIA and Jeff and Grace cia. Yes, please do so that you’ll know where that came from.

[00:59:00] So anyway, thank you guys so much for watching. Kate. Thank you so much for being here. Yeah. As always, amazing show, amazing questions. You did awesome. Wanna do a big shout out again to our, uh, sponsor e camming and find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm slash Ecamm. And with that, we wanna thank you guys, Sammy and, uh, Jim and Katelin all you guys for asking these great questions.

[00:59:20] We appreciate you. We’ll be able to do the show without you. And with that, we’ll see you next time. Bye everybody. Bye everyone.

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