SHOW TRANSCRIPT

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Social Media News Live I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not. 

[00:00:05] Grace Duffy: [00:00:05] And I’m Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media. Today’s show is brought to you by restream makes live streaming super easy peasy, lemon squeezy from custom branding to multi streaming, get all the tools you need to host a live show, just like Jeff and I do every week.

[00:00:24] And you can find out more about that at socialmedianewslive.com/restream

[00:00:32] Jeff Sieh: [00:00:32] awesome. And we are so excited today to be joined my Natasha Samuel, and we’re going to be covering the newest features and monetization opportunities for creators and brands on Instagram. We’re going to be talking about the latest research on Instagram engagement and trends, what they mean for your marketing campaigns.

[00:00:50]As also, I wanted to make sure that we talk about, because we’re doing all this cool stuff that we mentioned, our other sponsors. Ecamm. If you would like to learn more about them when I’m talking about them a little bit later in the show, but go to socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm that’s socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm

[00:01:07] and it’s I’m so excited. So if you don’t know who Natasha is, you should, Natasha is an Instagram strategists educator. And video storyteller and she hosts the shine online podcast. So make sure you guys go check that out. And she’s the founder of shine with Natasha. It was formerly sole studio and she offers Instagram intensive.

[00:01:27] She offers courses tools to help you shine online and grow your business through Instagram video. Natasha, welcome today to the show. So happy that you’re here. 

[00:01:38] Natasha Samuel: [00:01:38] Thank you so much for having me. I can’t wait to geek out over all the new Instagram things. 

[00:01:44] Grace Duffy: [00:01:44] So I did know we have wanted you on the show for so long, and I’m so glad that the stars of the schedules finally aligned to have you here, but since.

[00:01:53] We have last seen you, you rebranded from soul studio to shine with Natasha. So I want to give you the opportunity to tell us what prompted the shift and what this means for your business and what you’ve been doing. 

[00:02:08] Natasha Samuel: [00:02:08] Absolutely. So initially when I started my business, I was doing management for a lot of different brands.

[00:02:14] So I kind of had like a boutique agency model. And the more I started showing up on Instagram and growing my offers and doing courses and speaking, and podcasts and all those types of things, I realized that I was quickly becoming my brand. And so it only. Seemed natural to shift and kind of have my name and kind of more me as the forefront of the brand, but everything kind of looks and feels the same.

[00:02:39] I mean, you go to my Instagram, it’s still very yellow. Just a little shifts on the back end. Very cool. 

[00:02:47] Grace Duffy: [00:02:47] That’s cool. Well, we did want to give you an opportunity to talk with her. And I did notice it’s like the same quality, the same levels, the same kind of stuff you’ve been doing the same. Awesome Natasha Samuel, but I love the new, I love the new business, so I like the name of it shine within the duo.

[00:03:01] And 

[00:03:01] Jeff Sieh: [00:03:01] that is what we hope to do. Yeah. So we’ve got a bunch of cool stuff to talk about today, about Instagram. So, grace we’ve got all these Roundup of these Instagram features, so let’s go through those and then let’s have it Natasha kind of break those down for us. 

[00:03:13] Grace Duffy: [00:03:13] Oh, yeah, absolutely. So we had so many updates and we were going to go through them one by one and give Natasha a chance to get her, to give her hot takes on them.Instagram Adds Autocaption Stickers

[00:03:24] So the first thing that Was piqued. My interest is that Instagram now allows you to add autocaption stickers to your stories. So this was something that’s already available on IgE TV and on the threads app, which I don’t know much about the threads up. So maybe you can fill me in on that. But now they’re adding it to stories and reels.

[00:03:44]So. The sticker, supposedly automatically transcribed the speech within your stories and this, but at the moment it’s available for English only in English speaking countries, but they will eventually roll it out to different to, to all over the world. So currently it’s available in the us, UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, Singapore, and Ireland, and again, more countries soon.

[00:04:09] So, and it hopes to start. Instagram says it hopes to start testing animated. Oh no. Excuse me. Automated captions in real soon. Sooner, not animated. Sorry. So there’s automated captions. I got excited. Can’t even read my own writing here. So, Natasha, could you tell us how these captions work? How accurate are they and has it, I mean, I think of this, I think, oh, wow.

[00:04:33] Time-saver that it saves you a step of having to add your own captions or adding that extra bit of like, You know, interests, but has this been a time-saver for your content creator pro content creation 

[00:04:43] Natasha Samuel: [00:04:43] process? Absolutely. I think that adding text to stories and video in general is really important.

[00:04:50] Not only for engagement, because a lot of people, myself included are watching videos without the sound on. And of course, for accessibility, I think Instagram’s really trying to lead the way of how can we make. Platform’s accessible to people that learn in different ways. Maybe don’t have hearing issues, different things like that.

[00:05:11] So I was super excited to see the update and it is a very slow rollout, like a lot of Instagram stories stickers. So I still get people saying where’s my captions. Sicker. I actually just got mine on my business account last week. So I think it’s a slow rollout. But I haven’t playing around with it and I really do like it’s, I’d say it’s like 90% accurate, which is really good for any transcribing tool.

[00:05:33]And it’s really easy to just. Tap the captions and to edit them if needed. And it’s really just where you go and access the rest of your stickers. Like your poles, your questions, you just tap it, it transcribes it. They have a few different font options for you to choose from. You can change the colors and it’s as easy as that.

[00:05:51]One little hack that I’ve started to notice is that. I think we’re so used to summarizing what our Instagram stories are about using the text functionality. So a lot of people were like, I feel like I’m not watching stories as much, cause they’re kind of like speed tapping through and just reading what they want versus like listening and engaging with them.

[00:06:10] So I’ve kind of found the. Perfect mix on Instagram stories is to still use a little bit of text, just to say what the story is about to kind of just summarize this is what we’re talking about on stories, and then kind of going a little bit deeper and then adding the actual captions. So they know what the story is about, but the captions is kind of transcribing the whole entire thing.

[00:06:33] If they’re listening with sound off. But it’s definitely saved me. So much time because writing out word for word, what you’re saying on stories is just very time-consuming. 

[00:06:44] Grace Duffy: [00:06:44] I love that hack though, because I am in my own content consumption. I mean, if I don’t know what it is, and they’re just, you know, people will.

[00:06:52] Start to warm up or there’ll be like, ah, you know, like if I don’t know what it is within the first few seconds, I’m bored and I move on. So I like that hack of putting that text in. So you did mention the accessibility this is something accessibility advocates have been asking for a long time which is amazing.

[00:07:08] And so it, to me that says that this expands your content to a broader audience, more people can interact with it. So has something as simple as adding captions expanded. Your audience or expanded your client’s audience. And do you have any data on this. 

[00:07:24] Natasha Samuel: [00:07:24] Yeah, absolutely. And I think when it happened I got a lot of people pouring into my DM saying like I so appreciated you for already manually writing everything out, but now this makes it so much easier for me to learn because some people just learn in different ways when they’re consuming video content, but also to engage and be a part of your content.

[00:07:44] And I think that a lot of people. Away from adding texts to stories or showing up on stories entirely because they’re like, I know I need to make it accessible. I know I need to add text, but it just takes a lot of time. So I think it’s really opened the doors for not only more people to create content, but for more people to be a part of that content as well.Instagram Adds an Option to Switch Off Audio and Video During Instagram Live

[00:08:04]Jeff Sieh: [00:08:04] Interesting. So another thing that’s really kind of in this same vein of one of these new features is they’ve added this new option to switch off your audio or video during an IgE live broadcast. So, there, some of the stuff I read is like, okay, is this going to, you know, why would somebody do this?

[00:08:22] So can you tell us what this is, why that update matters to Instagram users? 

[00:08:28] Natasha Samuel: [00:08:28] Definitely. So I like to compare it to zoom because I think we’re all probably familiar with zoom at this point. So similarly, how you can use your mic or turn off your video on zoom. You can now do that while you’re Instagram Live-ing.

[00:08:44] So let’s say something just fell and. Crashed through my window and maybe I want to turn off my video while I’m live streaming and all the things are happening. So I would then turn off my camera so I can kind of get situated, move things around. If you have kids, maybe, you know, move your kids out of the frame, things like that just happened when you’re naturally live streaming is kind of what this is for.

[00:09:06]And then also with your mic, this is great for if there’s any loud noises, if your dog starts barking. So that’s kind of essentially what it is. Boards to help control the environment of when you’re livestreaming, because you really can’t control it. And so it’s really become handy. Not only for all of those situations that I mentioned, but specifically utilizing a, another new Instagram feature, which is the live rooms.

[00:09:31] So now not only can you go live with one other person, but you can have a live stream with. Four people total. So of course with that panel dynamic, you have to make sure you’re not talking over other people, that your background noises, it may be interrupting with someone else’s saying. So I find it’s kind of a really great best practice.

[00:09:50]And I think this is very similar to clubhouse. If you’re already on clubhouse of like, when someone else is talking, mute your mic and then you’re not really interrupting anything. So I think it’s really great for that feature, but I also think it’s great feature for just all the things that happen while we’re live streaming.

[00:10:06] Jeff Sieh: [00:10:06] Gotcha. So one of the questions I have, so, you know, we talked about, you know, the live rooms is a feature. Do you know if that muting and turning off your camera, you can do that on a solo Instagram. Like, you know, if you want to do like, I guess a kind of a clubhouse solo style room can you turn off your camera when you go, when you just go live or is that only inside of the live rooms?

[00:10:26] Natasha Samuel: [00:10:26] Yes. So it actually works with both. So whether you’re with multiple people or you’re just by yourself, you can utilize both features. 

[00:10:33] Jeff Sieh: [00:10:33] Awesome. So, my pal, Ian Anderson, gray said he was really looking forward to this show today and that he just started posting Instagram reels this Friday. And and he likes the idea that reels, you know, they’re shown beyond your followers, which I think is a good point with some of the stuff we’re talking about.

[00:10:49] Even Instagram live, I think has shown. It’s a good way to maybe is it just show his Instagram? I’m confused now because there’s so much stuff going on Instagram How Are Instagram Lives Discovered?

[00:10:56] Is Instagram live just shown to your followers or is there a place to be discovered when you go live on Instagram with like these live rooms?

[00:11:06] Natasha Samuel: [00:11:06] Great question. So that’s actually one of my favorite reasons why going live with other people can actually grow your audience. And I find that when I go live with my friends, where, when we’re collaborating, I often get a few hundred followers afterwards because Instagram just like we know with lives there often are notifications.

[00:11:24] So it’ll be like is going live or you’ll see their little bubble pop up when they’re live streaming. So the same thing happens, even if you join someone on their account. So it’s going to notify both of their followers, that they are going live with the other person. So it’s a really great way to get in front of a new audience and to just be engaging with both communities, essentially.

[00:11:47] Jeff Sieh: [00:11:47] Good point. Good point there. 

[00:11:49] Will Audio Only Instagram Have An Impact on Clubhouse?Grace Duffy: [00:11:49] So you did bring up clubhouse and how this is kind of, Instagram’s a little nibble at it, take at it. Right. So do you think that the audio only Instagram lives will have an impact on clubhouse usage? I know that clubhouse usage has kind of dropped in the last couple of months.

[00:12:05] I’m not saying that it’s not going strong, so don’t add me at the comments. I get it right. Like it’s still going live, but do you think that Instagram lives, audio only feature is a significant hit at all? 

[00:12:17] Natasha Samuel: [00:12:17] Yeah. I don’t even know if the audio part, but I think the ability to go live with multiple people.

[00:12:23] I mean, I’ll be honest has even taken me away from clubhouse because that’s kind of what I think a lot of people love about clubhouse is like, Having this panel conversation with multiple minds and thought leaders, I think is kind of the value of collaborating through clubhouse. So now that you can kind of have that similar thing, but also have video a part of it.

[00:12:47] I do think that it’s probably bringing a few people away from clubhouse, but I haven’t seen people doing lives with audio only, just yet. So even though you have the option to turn off your video, I haven’t seen that apart of how people are using lives just yet, but that totally you become a new thing.

[00:13:05]Jeff Sieh: [00:13:05] That’s interesting because yeah, because we’ve noticed and there’s a lot of articles are saying they’ve shown how clubhouse is. The users are kind of dipping really quickly. And because of all the competition that’s coming out. So it will be interesting to see how, you know, Instagram live, especially for the people who are really heavily on Instagram.

[00:13:23] If that’s going to be a thing or, you know, it’s going to be a clubhouse killer, like they like to say, so Ian asks grace, he goes it’s. Is Gracie clubhouse hater. Now she’s Android. I know that. So they just rolled out Android. So are you on a clubhouse grace 

[00:13:38] Natasha Samuel: [00:13:38] now that you 

[00:13:39] Grace Duffy: [00:13:39] no, I bought an iPad to get on.

[00:13:43] Yeah. Yeah. And the first time, the first question someone asked me when I bought it, it was like, is it to get on clubhouse? And I’m like, clubhouse is on there. No, I’m not a hater, but you know, anytime that you say, like this dipping popularity, people become like, no, it’s still going strong. I get it. There’s a piece of the pie for everyone.

[00:13:58] So, so our last 

[00:14:00] Jeff Sieh: [00:14:00] bit, wait, I wanna interrupt you, sorry, because Ian has a great question because this, I think is since we’ve been talking about audio and he goes, how do you do an audio only live? So he’s not seeing that. Not that I do, he doesn’t do a lot of Instagram lives. How Can You Do An Audio Only Live on Instagram?So how would you start one Natasha, if you wanted to just do an audio only live.

[00:14:19] Natasha Samuel: [00:14:19] Yeah. So if you wanted to do an audio only live, you would just start your live stream and then turn off your camera. I’m not sure if that’s exactly how that feature was intended to be used. So I haven’t seen people doing it. I haven’t seen people dabbling with it. I do think that a part of the live streaming nature when there’s video involved is having that video in the forefront and connecting with your audience.

[00:14:40] But that’s technically how you would do it. If you wanted to go that route. Gotcha. 

[00:14:44] Jeff Sieh: [00:14:44] And I think, you know, I can understand if you’re having guests. Like if you want to have people pop in that option of not having to be, especially on Instagram, when you’re, you know, there’s even a term, are you Instagram ready?

[00:14:54] You know, like some people may not be Instagram ready and be able to come in without your camera on. I think is a really great feature. For getting that interactivity and engagement that you’ve been talking about. So, yeah. So this is a, I know grace is chomping at this cause I am to this next feature because it’s very controversial and I can’t wait to what Natasha has to say about this.

[00:15:14] So go ahead, grace. Instagram Testing Letting Users Choose To Show Like Count or Not

[00:15:16] Grace Duffy: [00:15:16] Oh, so Instagram is testing, letting users choose whether or not to show our hide light count. So I they’ve gone back and forth on this several times where they’ve hit it, then they shown it. And so I want to know Natasha, where do you land on hiding versus showing your light counts on Instagram?

[00:15:33] I want to hear it from you. 

[00:15:35] Natasha Samuel: [00:15:35] Oh, such a good controversy. And I think that from my perspective, it’s not that I don’t care about likes, but there’s a lot of other metrics that I care a lot more about. I care about saves and shares and comments, some of which you can see from the outside in some of which that you can’t.

[00:15:54] So I don’t mind. If likes go away. I don’t think they’re as much a part of the Instagram culture as the used to I think with views and comments becoming really big, how you can pin comments and have these comment threads and how you can save content and share content. I think that those have kind of taken the forefront.

[00:16:15] So I wouldn’t mind if I got rid of my likes, but I also don’t think too much into it. I don’t think it harms my posts. By people seeing that post didn’t do well, did do well. There’s a lot of thoughts there. 

[00:16:27] Jeff Sieh: [00:16:27] Yeah. So I want to kind of jump because you’re an Instagram influencer, right? So, I mean, your business is Instagram and I know a lot of influencers were saying that because the light count.

[00:16:40]Is, would go away. Cause the people, some people were tested and they said they, they saw their like engagement or whatever, go down and they’re not getting the deals they were getting because brands go and they look on light counts. You know, that’s what, that’s the most visible thing. Like if, okay, Natasha is crushing it on Instagram, I can see it from just scrolling through a feed and seeing all the likes and engagement, all that stuff.

[00:17:01] So. If you’re an an influencer, isn’t that a big deal? Like if it’s going away, there’s no way to gauge it. Unless those brands have certain tools that they can go and measure and all that kind of stuff. Or you have a, like a, you know, an agency that gets you involved with people. So what do you think about that?

[00:17:17] It’s like the, on the influencer angle, not so much like the end user, but like as an influencer and kind of like a business kind of thing. 

[00:17:25] Natasha Samuel: [00:17:25] Right. And I think that’s such a great question related to influencer marketing. And my perspective is when I’m working with brands and even on the brand perspective of people wanting to partner with content creators is that likes, aren’t the only metric that matters.

[00:17:41] Of course. You know, are they, is their audience really engaged? Are they commenting on their content? How many views are they getting? If it’s a story or a real, which I feel like are really starting to take over that influencer world. Right? So I think that brands that are not too caught up in the more vanity metrics of lives might.

[00:17:59] Ask for a media kit, which I think is really typical or might know the brand’s content well enough to understand that they’re getting a certain amount of reach. So I would say from a brand and influencer perspective is really fall back on what analytics are really helpful. Like do your certain types of posts get hundreds of saves.

[00:18:17] Some of my posts get hundreds of saves. So I think that is way more valuable than likes. And how many people are conversating and asking about the products that you’re using and saying that they’re using the products. So I think that there’s a lot of data that brands and influencers can fall back on, on like, actually, this is how I’m adding value.

[00:18:36] Even if people don’t like the content that we’re posting. Cause I’ll be honest, whenever I do branded content, those almost always get less likes. But there might be more website clicks are more swipe ups or more comments or more referrals, or they might just be following that new brand. So there’s kind of a lot of depth there when it comes to what metrics really matter.

[00:18:57] Jeff Sieh: [00:18:57] So how would you advise somebody? Because the, this test is that you’re allowed to turn it on and off. So would you do some sort of a split test to see like, you know, on, versus off? So how would that go? How would you go about, like, if you were advising somebody. Let’s say you had an influencer can come to you and say, Hey, I want to try this thing.

[00:19:17] Is there some sort of split tests you would run for a certain amount of time so they could see which one works better for their individual brand. 

[00:19:24] Natasha Samuel: [00:19:24] Absolutely. If you wanted to test it month to month, do one month where you’re hiding your legs another month, where you aren’t tightening your likes. And that’s a really great way to see try to be creating the similar amount of content and see if it does affect your engagement.

[00:19:40] I would say if you’re an influencer or you’re worried that being hidden is going to affect your content. Totally don’t have to hide it. You know, I think it’s kind of great that Instagram is putting it in our hands so we can decide if we want to have it or not. But I also do think that what’s really great about this feature is even if you do hide your legs, you can still see your own analytics.

[00:19:59] Through the insights teacher through the view insights on each post on your stories. So luckily you can always kind of still send those over if you are doing it for brands or maybe you’re managing account support business owners and they’re wanting to see what’s performing well. So that would probably be my advice for anyone that’s wanting to figure out what should I do hide or not?

[00:20:19] Hi. 

[00:20:20] Jeff Sieh: [00:20:20] Gotcha. So Scott heirs has this comment, he goes he thinks it would be interesting if the counts of engagement were hidden on all platforms. So he is the social media scientist. And so he would love to run that experience experiment. And it was interesting a couple of weeks ago, grace, remember we had mark Schaefer on the show and he was talking about, he didn’t really think even engagement was a really good metric anymore because people can game even that.

[00:20:44] And so, he even mentioned Instagram doing experiments with kind of, influencers and micro influencers. So it’s going to be interesting. And I think, and Natasha, I’d love to know your thoughts on this is how these platforms can be more transparent and actually give tools to the creators that allows them to show those, you know, because it’s not really easy to export your Instagram.

[00:21:07] Metrics. I don’t think you mentioned a media kit before, which is a great idea, but you know, we’re and we’re going to get to this later on in the show about some things that are rolling out that can help creators, but like you mentioned that media kit and I think that’s fascinating. What Should You Put in a Instagram Influencer Media Kit?So what would you put in a media kit to like interest brands, to like partner with you?

[00:21:26] Natasha Samuel: [00:21:26] Definitely. I think a great idea is going over past campaigns that you’ve done. So what was the campaign? What was the goal? Why did you create the content that you did? What type of quality engagement were you getting? So were people sharing it with their audience? Were they saving it for later?

[00:21:43]Comments I think are also really valuable. So even if you’re getting less likes on a post, but if people are taking action and digging a little bit deeper, because maybe if someone’s commenting or clicking to your website, they might actually not be liking it because they’re taking that next step. So I always like to share my average amount of comments and just the overall engagement.

[00:22:04] So adding up all the engagement that I’m getting on a post. And getting that engagement rate is going to be really helpful. And then another thing is just looking at your overall account. So what are the demographics that you’re reaching? What is the percentage of the people that you’re reaching?

[00:22:18] What are their age? What are their interests? Cause that’s really going to give a brand a good idea of are they even reaching their ideal audience? Because I think that these really huge influencers you know, they can charge a ton because they have millions of followers, but. The ma you know, those really micro influencers are actually where it’s really valuable because they’re tapping into a very specific audience like moms with one kid or people that have a, you know, a certain house size and they decorate their house a certain way.

[00:22:50]So I think those demographic graphics or. Also really helpful to understand how many impressions and how many audience people are they reaching and who are they actually reaching with that campaign? And I think along with that is tracking links for websites. So website clicks, if people have swipe up how many people are swiping up and clicking those links is really valuable to see like, are they actually taking that action to shop or to download or whatever that call to action is that brand is really aiming to get with the campaign.

[00:23:19] Those are all 

[00:23:19] Jeff Sieh: [00:23:19] great points. And so if you haven’t noticed yet, but Natasha knows her stuff about Instagram. So I want to make sure that you guys go and make sure to check her out, follow her on Instagram. You can find her at shine with Natasha goes, follow her account. You’ll know you got on it because there’s a lot of yellow.

[00:23:34] It’s really pretty. And so make sure you guys go check that out. And we also want to let you guys know to make sure to go check it out. Out our sponsor, which is Ecamm. They allow me to do this really cool stuff. And here’s a little tip that you may not know about Ecamm is that, that lets you not just go live and let’s you actually record your, you know, if you’re doing a presentation or a talking head or something like that, but you can also record it in square.

[00:23:56] Or in vertical horizontal for like, for stories. And so it’s a great way. If you want to put a little bit more Polish on your Instagram stories or on your reels, or actually do something square in the feed, you can do that with e-comm. You can record it on your desktop. Sometimes it’s a little easier than having your phone.

[00:24:12] If you’re jiggling your hand a little bit or something like that. So it’s a great way to capture some really professional and.  camera’s amazing how they use it. I don’t know what they do, but it makes this hairy beast even look good. A lot of times on Instagram stories. So make sure you guys go check those out at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm

[00:24:31] They are amazing. 

[00:24:34] Grace Duffy: [00:24:34] And what goes well with Ecamm, Jeff, but the Restream. Yes. Restream yeah. Yes. The way we are distributing this show to Facebook, LinkedIn, and YouTube simultaneously, while it is the power of Restream, and YouTube can simultaneously stream or seamlessly and simultaneously multi simultaneously stream in full HD to over 30.

[00:24:58] Online destinations. And that includes multiple Facebook pages, multiple Facebook groups, which we’re doing, and even multiple YouTube accounts. So you can learn more about that at socialmedianewslive.com/restream 

[00:25:14] By the way, Ian said, he goes, ah, yeah. Restream is my live stream dream. 

[00:25:19] Jeff Sieh: [00:25:19] That trademark? Yes, exactly. So we’ve got some more stuff coming up too. So, great. So this is some interesting things about some new engagement and trends that were happening, you know, during these COVID times, but break this down for us. 

[00:25:37] Grace Duffy: [00:25:37] Yes. Well, we are coming to the end of the quarter. And so every time that we get to the end of a annual quarter, we get a ton of studies and a ton of research comes out on all of the social media platforms.

[00:25:49] And so there were a couple of studies that came out recently, specifically about Instagram. These were ones done by mention and HubSpot, and then another one was done by social insider and skied social. And both of them have pointed to Instagram engagement, spiking. At the middle of last year, the spring and summer of last year, 2020, and then kind of dipping down by the end of the year.

[00:26:10] So average engagement for carousel video and image posts peaked in July, 2020, and then returned to normal levels around December, 2020, and have just kind of stayed there. They said that carousel posts. Had the greatest engagement beating out single image and video posts. And then the report also found that carousel posts receive on average.

[00:26:29] For those of you counting likes 20, or sorry, 62 likes and five comments more on average. And then they also found that longer captions tend to do better on Instagram. So, and those, when they say longer is about 1,002. 2000 characters range. So, and those tended to see the most engagement, but, you know, studies, they tend to be very general.

[00:26:51] They tend to be very th they don’t necessarily track with what people are seeing on their own individual accounts. So, Natasha, I want to ask you in your own experience, working with different businesses, different kinds of business businesses, and even your own business, what kind of Instagram engagement and trends have you seen over those past year?

[00:27:12] What Instagram Engagment and Trends Have You Seen OVer the Past Year?Natasha Samuel: [00:27:12] Definitely. And I do think that carousels have become the new way of posting on your feed. And I think when we think of it from the algorithm side of things, Instagram wants us spending time on the app. They want us spending more time on each post. So I think that having those. Single photos, those static graphics where it’s just one slide.

[00:27:34] It’s very easy to maybe double top and just keep swiping. But with carousels, as people are actually swiping through them, visually, which often kind of bring them into the actual caption. So I found those have been my highest engaging. The type of post, whether it’s multiple photos, multiple kinds of graphics that build on and teach on each other.

[00:27:55]But that’s been something that I’ve been encouraging, almost anyone I’m like, if you’re going to post on the feed, at least make it like two to three slides long to kind of boost engagement there. But I think a big part of maybe. Speed engagement dropping for a lot of people is maybe two different things.

[00:28:11] I would say. One is, Instagram was kind of known for being very picture perfect various static for a long time. But I think these kind of comes with influencer marketing in a big way is that brands and personal brands are moving a little bit way from like very perfectly polished content to it feeling like you took it and captured it with.

[00:28:33] Your smartphone. So I think that people are maybe if you’re using that more polished content and kind of going with what worked in like 20, 19, 2018, it might not be performing as well because people kind of want the unedited look for their content. And of course, I think that brings us on to reels. Is that real as I’ve kind of completely shaked up how people consume video content, how we consume on the app, because there’s so many different ways to find your reels.

[00:29:01] And I think that those obviously have been a really big proponent for people getting the most amount of organic reach that we’ve seen in years by just using Instagram. Carousel Posts on Instagram

[00:29:13] Jeff Sieh: [00:29:13] So I want to ask some questions about what you just said because one of the things is that. I see, you know, carousel posts are super popular.

[00:29:22] I’ve seen a lot of the people explode by doing carousel posts and doing them very well. And usually they’re really designed, like the ones I’ve seen are like really like super designed. And you mentioned kind of the raw look too, but it. It seems why I haven’t done it because that’s a lot of work.

[00:29:39] Those carousel posts, some of those guys are doing, I’m like, are you kidding me? These designers? It’s, I’m like, who’s got time for that. So I really liked what you said about the raw footage and even Sabrina goes oh, snap. Thanks for that tip Natasha. So she was loving hearing about carousels.

[00:29:53] So. Is there a fine line between carousel posts being like really designed to have that arrow in it, all the design flows through to the next panel, that stuff? Or should we just worry about maybe doing a photo shoot and have multiple pictures? What are your thoughts? 

[00:30:07] Natasha Samuel: [00:30:07] Right. And I think that totally depends on your brand.

[00:30:10] So, for example, for my brand, people know me for yellow, they know me for screenshots and tutorials and really educating them and the carousels. So instead of having a bunch of photos of me, I’d rather share that in actual graphic form. And that’s what works well for my brand. And I will be honest. I did a carousel the other day, it took me two hours just to design the carousel and I do this for my living.

[00:30:35] So I totally get that. Carousels can take a lot of time. They do take a lot of time and I’m not taking away from that, but it’s kind of shifting how you’re using the feed is instead of posting a lot of individual photos or individual graphics. You’re kind of condensing it into like, almost like a blog post because you’re having the carousel with multiple slides.

[00:30:55] And then you’re also having that longer caption, like with what grace said that definitely does perform well with those types of content. So I think if you’re an educator I think that can definitely be beneficial for your brand, but I think if you’re an influencer, if you sell fashion, if you do recipes, if you have products, like you can totally utilize instead of just sharing one product photo, Sharing three or five of them.

[00:31:20] So I think this carousel technique can apply to different brands, but visually it might look different because me thinking of my favorite brands to follow that I maybe buy like furniture from our food products from. I would probably be like, I don’t know if I like this graphic look. But I think when it’s very photo centric, it really works or even doing just videos and each of those slides, you can totally incorporate video clips into your carousels as well.

[00:31:45] So I think it just totally depends on the brand. 

[00:31:48] Jeff Sieh: [00:31:48] That’s a great point. So, you know, oh, were you gonna say something grace? I’m sorry. 

[00:31:52] Grace Duffy: [00:31:52] Oh, I was just going to thank Natasha for that full transparency. About how long it took you to make your carousel, because sometimes it’ll take me forever to do something and I’m like, I do this for a living, right?

[00:32:04] Like why? 

[00:32:05] Jeff Sieh: [00:32:05] Like I know. And the hard thing is balancing the return on investment for that time. Like I know Natasha, I mean, that’s a long time. For you to put together, but you have seen the benefit of it. So it’s worth it in the long run. And so I think everybody’s got to kind of do that, you know, juggling of is that worth it for my brand, my audience and all that kind of stuff.

[00:32:26] So. 

[00:32:27] Natasha Samuel: [00:32:27] Definitely. Yeah, I think it just depends on the goal of the post, because when I mentioned that some of my posts get hundreds of saves, it typically are those carousels. I mean, I think I have one carousel that have like a thousand saves, which is like insanity. And they usually get a lot of website clicks as well, because I can add in calls to action.

[00:32:44] I can add in a lot of information. They’re often very shareable saveable. So if that’s kind of my goal with that post, I think it’s great. But if I’m like, I just want to share something really quick and snappy, I’m gonna do a reel because it’ll probably take me like maybe 10 minutes, which is a little bit better.

[00:33:01] Jeff Sieh: [00:33:01] You guys make sure that you guys, if you want to see some examples of what a Natasha is talking about, make sure you go to Natasha Samuel, and it’s at shine with Natasha over on Instagram. Want to make sure I say that out for the podcast? It’s at shine with Natasha over on Instagram. So make sure you guys go check her out.

[00:33:17] What’s One Thing on Instagram That Marketers Should Focus On This Year?So one of the things, you know, we call it. Instagram, the Swiss army knife of social media. You know, it has image posts. It’s got video posts, it’s got live video stories, real IETV it’s taking on clubhouse. Now, if there’s one thing that marketers should be laser focus just on this year, when it comes to Instagram strategy, what is it?

[00:33:37] Natasha, what do you think? 

[00:33:40] Natasha Samuel: [00:33:40] Yes. So I’m going to give people a two-part formula because I think one of the biggest things about Instagram right now is that we can’t get away with just using one part of this. We need to be utilizing as many as we can, but of course, as small businesses, as content creators, our time is very valuable.

[00:33:56] So we want to make sure we’re using what’s the most impactful for our brand. So I think the first part of things is I think that Instagram stories are a non-negotiable. I often find that. Some people are watching stories and not even scrolling through their feed. And I think a lot of people are like, yeah, that’s actually me.

[00:34:14]So that’s one thing to consider. And I think that stories are such a great way to engage with your audience on a deeper level. And they don’t have to be super curated, which is really nice. So I think that daily stories and multiple times throughout the day posting those stories is going to be beneficial to any brand.

[00:34:31] And then I think on top of that is the actual. Speed. And with all these new types of content, you can create reels can go to the feed. I G T V. Videos can go to the feed lives that you save as an IDT video can go to the feed. And then we of course have our carousels and our regular feed posts. So instead of thinking about.

[00:34:52] Of all of them as being very separate, think of them as your fried strategy holistically. So if you just want to do reels, I think that’s going to be great for getting a lot of reach and really utilizing a feature that Instagram is really pushing. I think if you want to get more saves and shares on your content, Maybe you want to do carousels.

[00:35:10]If you want to test out more long form content going a little bit deeper into whatever you’re teaching or sharing or inspiring your audience to do that. I think I do TV videos or lives that are saved as IDD videos are a really great route. Or you might be like, Oh, that sounds great. And you might want to do a mix of everything.

[00:35:27]But I’d say like overall, I’d say if you just did stories and reels right now with how Instagram is looking, you probably see some really great results. And actually when reels just launched, and this was in October, September of last year in 2020 I did a 30 day reels challenge just as an experiment and posted six weeks.

[00:35:49] Only reels just five days a week only reels. And I got 5,000 new followers from doing that, which is pretty crazy. So I would say that the organic reach that we can get right now with reels while they’re super new, is something to definitely leverage. 

[00:36:06] Jeff Sieh: [00:36:06] That is some power tips right there. So, I don’t know.

[00:36:09] Now I’m gonna start doing reels, but Ian says Jeff’s dancing videos would certainly have high ROI that will never happen to my friend. But and this is interesting from Gary Stockton over on LinkedIn, he says, Instagram is an awesome platform. If you spend time figuring it out right now, we are getting way more engagement on there than LinkedIn.

[00:36:27] From LinkedIn. So Carrie, thank you for being transparent and sharing that. That’s really cool. So we do have another segment. We’re going to talk about really quick about this and we kind of teased it earlier about Instagram is developing creator shops and branded content marketplaces for influencers.

[00:36:44] So Instagram is. Like going all in on creators, which I love to hear. Last month, we learned that Instagram is working on a suite of new tools to help influencers make money off its platform, including creator shops, affiliate commerce, and a branded content marketplace. So Zuckerberg announced these new features during a live stream with the Instagram chief Adam Mosley.

[00:37:07] Rarely, I think that’s what I say. I don’t know if I said it right, but I made my best effort. So they just announced the two things that were announce that we want to talk about real quick is creator shops. Now that’s an extension of the company’s existing shopping features that rolled out around this time last year and allows businesses to sell products.

[00:37:24] So sucker bridge says we see a lot of creators setting up shops and one part of being a content creator. It’s their business model is that you get to create great content and then you can sell stuff. And so having a creator shops is going to be awesome. So, and that the platform is working on tools to enable Instagram stars like Natasha here to get paid for promoting products.

[00:37:42]Creators, as Zuckerberg said, should be able to get a cut of the sales of things that they’re recommending. And we should build up an affiliate recommendation marketplace to enable that all to happen. So. Natasha, what are, let’s talk about some of these things. What can you tell us about like these new social storefronts to really kick us off?

[00:38:01] Do you know of any examples of businesses that are maybe paving the way for this new type of like, you don’t really need to have a physical storefront? As a shopping experience, maybe some of your clients. Do You Have to Have a Physical Storefront to Sell on Instagram?

[00:38:12] Natasha Samuel: [00:38:12] Yeah. I mean, I’ve seen it really taking the forefront when it comes to just how shopping on Instagram for like actual physical products has really taken off in the last year.

[00:38:23] Like there’s that shopping tab literally in our navigation now. And now there’s the guides feature where you can add products to your guides. So I think that shopping is like already starting to really develop for people that are. Selling actual products. But then the other side of that coin is that often who is selling the products are the influencers that are creating content for these brands.

[00:38:48] And I think that Instagram is just being smart. If we’re being honest, influencers are what could make or break Instagram as a platform, as long as there’s personal brands and influencers that are. Continuing to use the app and create on it. That is what is going to pretty much guide the direction that Instagram goes in.

[00:39:10] So they’re like, okay, so we need to pretty much pay them, make sure it’s really easy for them to get paid. So they don’t go anywhere, which I think is really helpful. An example of this actually is Instagram lives badges. So this is something that they’ve mentioned probably a year ago, honestly, but it really was a very.

[00:39:27] Slow rollout of eventually testing it with creators and now giving it to everyone. And I actually just set up my badges account last week. And it was really easy to do, which I think is kind of their goal is making it very easy. And essentially what badges are, if you’re not familiar is I can go live and I can set up my badges.

[00:39:45] And if people are tuning in and they’re like, I really like the slide, they can basically kind of like tip me and buy badges. They’re like little likes the kind of look likes. And they, I think they can go up to being like five bucks. So it’s not a lot, but it is kind of incentive for people to be actually making money.

[00:40:03] And we’ve seen it with IETV now being able to monetize that and have ads on your ID, TV videos to make some income, they’re kind of similar to YouTube. So I think that just overall, yeah. These features are slowly rolling out because Instagram knows they need to incentivize content creators and influencers to be on the platform because then that incentivizes brands to be on the platform and us just consumers that are interacting with those different types of people.

[00:40:29] So I haven’t seen the new features that they’re working on, but I can imagine, like over the next few months, they’re really going to start testing them, rolling them out, and we’re going to start seeing them in play. Awesome. 

[00:40:40] Jeff Sieh: [00:40:40] I want to bring up there’s some chat going on and I want to make sure the podcast listeners get to hear this is Sabrina says, oh, Instagram is having creator week invitation.

[00:40:48] Only June 8th through the 10th. And people are like, well, what’s going on? And that she goes, it’s it. It’s. Invitation only, but they’re going to stream some of it to the public. If you go to act creators on Insta, that should be there, that you might be able to catch some of that. So thank you, Sabrina for sharing that, that is always awesome to have that kind of information from our our friends here watching with us.

[00:41:11] So, grace, you had some more questions about this last thing that Zach announced. Yeah. 

[00:41:16] Grace Duffy: [00:41:16] Yes. So when you’re talking about influencer, so the third thing that Instagram announced in this live video was that they are working on a branded content marketplace to help match influencers with their sponsors.

[00:41:29] So there was noted that this tool could help enable up and coming talent to monetize and would create a kind of creator. Middle-class a creator working class, if you will. So I don’t know. What the other classes are. I’m not going to say I’m not going to get myself in trouble here. So he, now they didn’t disclose what these deals might entail or how they might be structured.

[00:41:54] But the plan is that they would be very favorable in terms of In terms of the craters. So they’re not building this from the perspective of Facebook, trying to make a lot of money. So they are trying to build the space where creators and thus the influencers are able to actually generate a living from being Instagram influencers.

[00:42:15] So can you tell us more about this Instagram branded content marketplace? It sounds a lot like what Facebook already has going on with its branded co-labs manager. So any advice you have for people looking to get started with this those up and coming that want to be part of this creator middle-class.What is Instagram’s Branded Content Marketplace?

[00:42:35] Natasha Samuel: [00:42:35] Yeah, I think it’s really interesting to see how this will shake out because overall the feedback that I’ve heard and I’ve worked with brands occasionally, but I would say I’m not like a full blown influencer, but my friends that are, do the brand perspective of influencer marketing, a lot of people are annoyed.

[00:42:50] They’re actually like, this is already in existence. So Instagram seems like the kind of trying to take control of the tools that already facilitate this and the businesses that facilitate this. So I’m interested if people will utilize it, but I also do think that while a lot of people are already maybe using outside tools and service providers that help with this I think it’s also going to be very appealing to do it just within the Instagram app.

[00:43:13] And I think that’s. Essentially the goal that Instagram has here. So I’d say like when it opens up, definitely test it out. If you want to get into content creation, you want to get into influencing and you have a micro sized audience. I think there’s a lot to leverage there on the platform. 

[00:43:31] Jeff Sieh: [00:43:31] Yeah. Go 

[00:43:31] Grace Duffy: [00:43:31] ahead.

[00:43:32] Oh, I said, I’m just really curious how good this’ll be for matching the brands with the content creators on Instagram, because it is a tricky science and it’s not always science. It always, if there’s so many intangibles when it comes to working with influencers or influencers assigned to work with the brand, for sure.

[00:43:49] Yeah. 

[00:43:50] Jeff Sieh: [00:43:50] Right. So also Instagram is coming this upcoming brand and content marketplace. It sounds like something that Facebook kind of already had where it’s for its flagship site and Instagram, you know, that brand colabs manager. So, you know, Tik talk as a similar program called creator marketplace and Snapchat has it storytellers program.

[00:44:09] And then you’ve got YouTube and Twitter and LinkedIn. And so, Do you know how maybe the Instagram program compares to some of these other ones? Like I said I love it. That they creators are, you know, getting some love. It seems like, you know, these platforms are built on creators and it just makes sense to me that they get a cut of this.

[00:44:24] So, how, w how would this compare? Would you prioritize one platform or another, does it depend on your audience? What are your thoughts on that Natasha? 

[00:44:33] Natasha Samuel: [00:44:33] Yeah, I think that tick talk has been standing out to me, I think because their growth has been so consistent and so huge in their social media space.

[00:44:42] And I definitely have. Seen it evolve to really support those types of relationships. And from people that I know that have, you know, millions of followers on Tik TOK and have worked with tick talk internally or brands on it it seems like that’s definitely becoming, I think just competition for Instagram essentially.

[00:45:02]I think Instagram is definitely known for the place for influencers to be. So I almost think like in the back of Instagram, Mine is with reels and all these influencer focused, you know, features essentially. They’re just trying to compete with tick-tock because I think that’s the place to be spending your dollar as a brand.

[00:45:20] That’s wanting to support influencers. And they also think that the spending power with millennials and gen Z. Is really on Tik TOK. I, myself, I’m between millennial and gen Z. And I have bought things on Tik TOK. I have done it. I am a part of it. So I think that’s actually kind of like now, like the more we’ve talked about it, I’m like, this is Instagram being very afraid of Tik TOK.

[00:45:43] Jeff Sieh: [00:45:43] Yeah. That is a good point because I know like my daughter she’s 20, she buys stuff. Tik TOK all the time, like perfume and, you know, clothes. And I’m like, you know, and so I tease her, I call her tic talk a lot, just say, Hey, tic-tac-toe hold on. Because that’s where she gets a lot of her stuff. So, but I think it’s really interesting.

[00:46:01] And to me always con competition is great because you know, one side will fire these warning volumes over here. And then I think in the end creators hopefully will win. Because you mentioned earlier in, in this broadcast Natasha that it’s all built on creators. I mean, all the great content you think of all tic talks, not making those funny videos, it’s the creators who are using tick talk.

[00:46:22] And so, and I think it’s easier now for people to jump ship, to like go over to reels, if they can get better, a better cut over there. So I love these kind of wars that are going to go on. Cause I think hopefully the creators will work out at the end of the day. So, Well, we’re going to say grace. I saw you.

[00:46:38] Like igniting how good tech statement was or 

[00:46:40] Grace Duffy: [00:46:40] something. So you are amazing. Jeff, I am nodding along with you. The question about the so you talked about the demographic between TechTalk and Instagram, and I know Instagram has slowed among teens and among gen Z is what, you know, what some studies have shown, but it has growing.

[00:46:57] In the, between the ages of 35 and 44. So there is growth there. So how is the shift in demographic? On Instagram? How have you seen it? Change things? TikTok Vs Instagram

[00:47:08] Natasha Samuel: [00:47:08] Definitely. I think when we’re comparing tick talk to Instagram, tick talks are really great place to discover and to binge, but I think Instagram is definitely a place where there’s so many more features and touch points to connect with people, which I think is something that business owners that are listening to this.

[00:47:25] They’re like, okay, there’s a lot of things going on with influencers. Like where do I fit in? And I think that’s where Instagram is actually very helpful is all those features that creators and influencers are using are really great. For brands as well, because they can watch you live. They can engage on a reel, they can DM you directly.

[00:47:42]So I think that overall Instagram is continuing to grow because it’s starting to become a broader place. So I think that before you might think that you only are tapping into one specific audience, but I think a lot of different types of people are on Instagram now, which I think is a huge benefit.

[00:48:01] And I also will say that even though tick-tock we think of teens. I will say that a lot of businesses are doing really well there and a lot of different demographics that might surprise you. And I will kind of give a little tip as you’re like, okay, tick talk. I don’t download it. I don’t use it is when you first download it, you’re going to see the dancing.

[00:48:20] You’re going to see the trends. You’re going to see the music. You’re going to see all that. But the more you use it. The algorithms wicked smart, which I think is why it has performed so well. So like my tick tock algorithm is like trader Joe’s plans, dogs. Like that is my algorithm because those are all things that I’m very interested in.

[00:48:40] So that was just one thing I wanted to note with. Like, if you’re like is to talk even for brands and business owners and reaching my demographic. It definitely leans gen Z, but I think that it does cover a lot of bases, but I think Instagram covers even more. 

[00:48:56]Closing ThoughtsJeff Sieh: [00:48:56] That’s a great tip. That’s a great tip. So, if you haven’t figured it out yet, but Natasha is pretty wicked smart on the gram.

[00:49:04] So make sure you guys check her out. Natasha. Where’s the best I know you started you kind of rebranded your company. Where’s the best place for people to go find you, your courses, all this stuff that you offer. 

[00:49:14] Natasha Samuel: [00:49:14] Absolutely. So Instagram is definitely the bus place to hang out at shine with Natasha. And then my white website is shine when the Tasha as well.

[00:49:22] And we actually just opened the doors for my courses. If you want to dive a little bit deeper into Instagram video and then my podcast as well, the shine online podcast, those are definitely the best places to hang out with me. 

[00:49:32] Jeff Sieh: [00:49:32] Yeah, and make sure you guys go and go check out her podcast and leave her a rating and review, because that really helps out new podcasts when they start coming, give her, you know, the five stars give her the special treatment because that’s really, you want to stay on that new and noteworthy as long as possible.

[00:49:47] So yeah. Do us a favor and go over there and do that for her as well. So, by the way Don’t forget that this show is sponsored by our friends over at e-comm. You can find out more about them at social media news, live.com forward slash e-com. I wonder there’s a couple of comments. People are like, oh, I really wish that he can, or restream went to Instagram live.

[00:50:04] There is no official tool that goes to Instagram right now. They have closed that API. They don’t have access to it. There are some third-party ones that you may have heard of like the yellow duck. But. You it’s really gray area if you’re breaking the terms of service or not. And so I, I have never done that with clients because I don’t want to ever mess with that stuff.

[00:50:24] I’ve tested it on my own account, but I would not recommend it until they opened that up. It would be great to have a desktop app for that, but they none of the services, if they are official partners or you know, above board that allow you go into Instagram and broadcast from your desktop. So just wanted to make that 

[00:50:41] Grace Duffy: [00:50:41] clear.

[00:50:42] So while we have Natasha on, I’ve been going cause you know, I work for restream obviously. So we answer that question quite a bit and we do offer tools. So if you want to know, you can go over to the restraint blog to find out about that. But I’ve always said that Instagram really wants to keep it a mobile first experience.

[00:50:57] And do you agree with that Natasha or what, where do you think their priorities are? 

[00:51:03] Natasha Samuel: [00:51:03] Definitely. I think that mobile first is definitely their focus. And I think that, I mean, an app like clubhouse and tick talk really shows how that can be very powerful for keeping people on the apps. I will also say that they have been releasing.

[00:51:18] A few more desktop friendly features like watching a live on desktop is so much more user-friendly because the comments aren’t on the people’s faces, it’s actually in a comment section. So watching lives, there are really great. And then also managing direct messages has become a little bit easier and more user-friendly on that feature.

[00:51:37] You can watch stories there now. So yeah, it’s kind of becoming slightly more desktop friendly, but they definitely want to keep it mobile focused. That’s 

[00:51:44] Jeff Sieh: [00:51:44] a great point. So grace UTS, where you’re from, so tell people where they can find out more about you and all that you do, because you’re often. 

[00:51:53] Grace Duffy: [00:51:53] You can find me over at restream.

[00:51:55] So we have a fabulous restream community on Facebook. Just look up restream.community on Facebook and find out everything you need to know about live streaming. There’s a great community there. Lots going on every single day. It’s being it’s growing. Growing. So please come join us over there. And then we also have a YouTube channel where we host a phenomenal lineup of live shows all about the business of live streaming.

[00:52:19] So everything that you want to know from how to start your live stream, to how to distribute it as a podcast, you can find it on our YouTube channel. 

[00:52:27] Jeff Sieh: [00:52:27] And also, if you would like to know and get reminders, when we go live, make sure you text us at (900) 328-7908 eight. That’s (900) 328-7908 eight. We’ll get a reminder of no spam, but we can kind of get around the algorithms and we can, you can actually have a conversation over there.

[00:52:41] So I’d love for you guys to subscribe, just like Sabrina did, who is watching with us today in the comments. And don’t forget, we mentioned Natasha’s podcast to go over and subscribe to that. But also we are also a podcast. You can find us on all the main. Podcasts like apple, Spotify, Google play, Stitcher, all those places.

[00:52:59] And our next show is on Friday, May 28th at 11:00 AM. Eastern 10:00 AM central, and you can find us always on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and most days at Amazon live. So thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate all you guys. Thank you, Natasha amazing show. We’ve been just dying to have you on, and I’m so glad that you came on for with us today.

[00:53:19] We really appreciate it. 

[00:53:21] Natasha Samuel: [00:53:21] Thank you so much for having 

[00:53:23] Jeff Sieh: [00:53:23] me. Thank all you guys for watching. We will go. We will see you next week. Same time, same channel. Bye everybody. 

[00:53:29] Grace Duffy: [00:53:29] Bye everyone. 

[00:53:33]