[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Welcome to Social Media News Live I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not. And I’m Erik Fisher. That’s right. And this is the show that keeps you up. And what’s happening in the world of social media. Today, we are joined by my guests slash cohost, and we’re going to be exploring what in the world is the metaverse.

[00:00:19] We’re going to be talking about AR versus VR versus Mr. Versus XR. What the heck do all those mean? And what does it matter? And also we’ll be talking about the future of business in the metaverse. So really exciting, Erik, thank you so much for being here so excited. You could join.

[00:00:38] Erik Fisher: Yeah, thanks for having me.

[00:00:39] I always loved joining you guys here on the show.

[00:00:42] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Erik Fisher, if you don’t know who he is the producer and host of the long running popular productivity podcasts in the business space. Beyond the to-do list. Erik has also worked as a social media manager and a community manager for over 10 years.

[00:00:59] He’s that old folks he’s that old. He is currently the senior social media manager at. The event, experience OAS for in-person virtual or hybrid events. Erik, thank you so much. It’s going to be a great show. He knows all this stuff. We are both super nerds about about all this, but I do want to give a big shout out to the sponsors of the show Ecamm.

[00:01:21] They are amazing. They have a brand new. Released that has gone out in the last couple of weeks. It’s got a bunch of updates. It’s really cool. If you’re on a Mac, it is a no brainer for making presentations recording video. You can record Instagram, because it does the vertical video, all sorts of things.

[00:01:38] It’s what I use to, to produce and make the show go out Live. So make sure to check them out at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm today, we are going to be talking all about the the metaverse and what exactly. Is the metaverse. So if you don’t haven’t heard if you’ve been stuck, in, you know, in your house and not watching any TV or getting online mark Zuckerberg, James, the name of Facebook to Metta.

[00:02:14] And apparently it wasn’t very cheap because I guess somebody else had. That name and I guess they didn’t know. And they had to pay $20 million to get from this Mehta PC that had already existed. So I find that funny, somebody probably lost their job over that when they did the research. Um, what Zuckerberg said, he says we’re basically moving from being Facebook first as a company to being metaverse first.

[00:02:41] This is really strange, out of the blue people were what is this? And I wanted to play for you guys. This is a commercial that I saw during football on Sunday. And this supposedly explains what metaverse is. So check this out.

[00:03:20] So that was really clear, wasn’t it? So Erik you’ve ever seen that before, so I want to get your reactions odd that I saw it as a, it was like a primetime little football. That was the commercial.

[00:04:15] Erik Fisher: Can you imagine what somebody who had not even heard about this parent company slash name, change thing at all thought when they saw that.

[00:04:26] I have one. I have no clue what you’re talking about too. It’s from Facebook and three. What the heck is Metta? I, it still doesn’t

[00:04:34] Jeff Sieh: explain it.

What In The World Is Meta?

[00:04:36] Erik Fisher: You’re going to make my art painting comes, come alive and then put on a dance party and hypnotize me like,

[00:04:44] Jeff Sieh: okay. So that’s what was so funny when I, what I saw, I was like, what?

[00:04:49] I get, we don’t really know what the metaverse is going to be. It’s the. Supposed to be the next generation of the internet, but that told me nothing other than, and we’re going to talk about in a little bit the demographics of who’s Zach really wants to come back to Facebook. Um, I think if you look, if you remember back in the commercial.

[00:05:14] They were just dancing in their head, like that all yes. Younger folks, which, yeah. Which have been abandoning Facebook in droves. Uh, like my son doesn’t use it. I have to like, Hey, did you see what I posted on Facebook for your birthday? No, I don’t ever go on Facebook. So anyway so what is this metaphor?

[00:05:35] So this comes from Neil Stefansson. He famously coined this term. Metaverse in the 1992 novel snow crash. And this referred to a 3d virtual world inhabited by avatars of real people and a lots of other science fiction Media includes metaverse like systems, uh, you know, but this was the most common one for the re for these metaverse enthusiasts.

[00:05:59] So you’ve got ready player one, which is a great book. It was a movie Spielberg did that talks about the metaverse, but there’s not really any universally accepted definition of the real metaverse because it’s not here yet. Other than it’s going to be like the internet 2.0 or the next thing. A lot of times these Silicon valley proponents referenced the, this kind of definition by this capitalist Matthew Ball.

[00:06:25] And he co says the metaverse is an expansive network of persistent real time rendered, 3d worlds and simulations that support continually of identity objects, history, payments, and entitlements, and can be experienced. All the time together by effectively unlimited number of users, each with an individual individual sense of presence.

[00:06:46] Now Facebook who is naming their, their whole company off of this kind of describes a little bit more simply they go, the metaverse is a set of virtual spaces where you can create and explore with other people who aren’t in the same physical space as you. It’s this open virtual augmented reality platform.

[00:07:07] So they’ve got, they’ve been around for decades second life. If you remember that, Erik, back in the day, that was supposed to be a metaverse. You know, a lot of times in the movies and novels, they’re not a good thing, matrix, you that’s, you waking up from the metaverse is what the whole story is about.

[00:07:26] Uh, The interesting thing about this whole announcement. And, we talked about this commercial is the demographics. Um, Zuck said this. He says, I do think it’s important to clarify what I’m talking. What our north star demographic here is we’re talking about young adults, 18 to 29, not primarily teens and certainly not primarily kids, but like college and post-college that sort of historically been the strong base for us.

[00:07:56] And it generally continues to be a strong base, which I disagree, but I think it’s really important that as so many more people use all our products, we don’t lose sight of that. So that commercial, what he said that I just quoted. He’s doing a play for these younger adults. I just don’t know if that commercials yet.

[00:08:15] So what do you think? So he thinks it’s going to be the next version of the internet. Do you agree?

Do You Think Meta Is The Next Version of the Internet?

[00:08:26] Erik Fisher: here’s the thing. I don’t know. So many reactions that I saw to this announcement, especially with people that I know that I listen to tech wise that talk about VR specifically VR, although we’re going to go into variations of other R’s I don’t know that it’s the next version of the internet, because I think the internet is not necessarily going to. I don’t know. I don’t think it’s going to morph into being a lot more, a lot different. Although I, again, I do like the idea of there being the potential for, a matrix that you voluntarily go into and you are aware that you’re in it as well as you aren’t being drained of your, body heat for being a battery.

[00:09:14] But. There is also inherently like we’re, here’s the thing like we’re already talking about. We’ve already been talking about for a long time, specifically with kids, but also with adults who have these new learned habits of scrolling and swiping and constant, like looking down instead of, being in the world, that’s already in existence.

[00:09:39] I’m a little hesitant to say that, this is a good thing that he wants to move forward with this and push full steam ahead into being even more jacked into something. Without limit, it’s a little, come on.

[00:09:55] Jeff Sieh: So, so one of the things that a lot of the, cause it broke, it’s an F if you do a search, there’s so many articles that are written about this.

[00:10:05] And there’s a lot of them that like, okay, it’s a distraction or whatever for Facebook. And we’ll talk about that in a little bit. But the, one of the things is like, how do you police this? If you go in there, And a lot of them are like saying, you have limits and you do all these things and it’s almost gamifying good behavior.

[00:10:25] Like you become you level up, if you don’t, go outside of the norm or if you don’t harass somebody or you’re not. But then you have it reminded, did you ever see the black mirror episode that had Dallas Howard, uh,

[00:10:39] all of black mirror,

[00:10:41] Jeff Sieh: when she had that, those stars, and like, I didn’t get enough star, all that stuff.

[00:10:47] It reminded me a lot that, that when they talked about how they’re going to police this, and I’m like, yeah,

[00:10:52] Erik Fisher: you’re basically Yelp reviewing individual people and that’s their credit moving up. It’s it was almost like a virtual cloud. Remember clout.

Experiences with Oculus Quest

[00:11:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Yeah. And so I don’t know if that’s the big fear with this because so you and I are both, we both have.

[00:11:11] These devices, right? We both have these Oculus quests and they’re amazing. They’re fun. They’re nerdy, but you and I both lot of times play single-player because it is really freaky because you and I have gone on there together, and it’s like somebody sitting right next to you it’s like your here.

[00:11:30] And if it wasn’t you, I would be uncomfortable. But, and I was even a little uncomfortable with you, but it was the say you don’t

[00:11:36] Erik Fisher: want me to sit next to you in real life,

[00:11:38] Jeff Sieh: but There’s this intimacy. And until you strapped one on one of these devices on your face, it’s you don’t understand it.

[00:11:48] And there’s, there is something, there it is. The next generation I see. While these companies are. Getting behind it. But it, it,

[00:11:57] Erik Fisher: I was, you talked me into it. I was hesitant. And I was like, eh, I don’t know if I want to I already have an addictive personality by nature in terms of technology.

[00:12:10] And so I thought, yeah, the last thing I really want to do is put something on my head and close off the real world and be immersed in a non real world. However, I did find that it works really well to block out. I’m a productivity guy, so blocking out all distractions and immersing in something specifically for a certain period of time, whether it’s pretending you’re in a movie theater, when you couldn’t go to one or two, do a beat saber workout.

[00:12:37] When, we don’t have real lightsabers in the real world that work like that. And some of the yeah, but some of the other aspects of it, it’s been really helpful. It’s really helpful for cabins. And moving into cooler weather again right now. It’s been a year. I think it’s been about a year or a little under or a little over, I should say since I’ve had it.

[00:13:01] And I got to say I don’t use it every day. I don’t even use it every week, but when I use it it definitely helps me mental health wise. So I, so I am a believer in this technology being used for good, but that’s the problem is that I’m just going to say, I don’t trust mark Zuckerberg to know what’s good for anybody right now.

[00:13:25] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and it’s very, very cool. Do the games on it and the stuff. I see a lot of our friends. Like I see Leslie Samuel on it all the time, Steve Datto’s on it. I see all their, some other productivity people that, um, that are on the platform. I see a lot of them doing it for exercise.

[00:13:44] So I think that is a natural fit. There’s a lot of people who are doing it that way. You mentioned, cabin fever. Yeah. I like to watch movies because I can sit in a virtual theater that’s that has dynamic lighting, like reflects office stuff or the movies. It’s amazing. But when you come, when we’re talking about what Zuckerberg wants is he wants us to interact with each other.

[00:14:07] He had the, when he was doing his demo, talk about fencing with famous people and all these different things that, to me, I want it, I use the Oculus to escape. I put it on just escape from stuff. I don’t want to use it to. So much with other people. Now, there are people who love doing that.

[00:14:28] That’s the way they’re wired. Leslie, Samuel, he jumps into everything and loves to talk to just random people. He finds and sees what they say. That’s his style. There’s a lot of people like that. That is not mine. So I think it’s going to, it’s going to come back down to how are they going to police it?

[00:14:43] How can you, cause I’ve gone into like horizons when it first opened up like horizon. And I was like, oh, this is cool. I want to go see what’s going on with see a concert. And it was a bunch of kids screaming and acting goofy and stupid in the lobby. And I left, it was like, it’s you wouldn’t want to go to that in the real world.

[00:15:01] Why would I want to go and have kids? It’s like, when there, get off my lawn. And I was like in virtual reality, come on. So get off my digital lawn. So it seems to me like this is a gamble. You know, there’s a lot of people who say he’s using this to de-stress. From what’s going on with all the other things that have broke on Facebook he says, and he has a good point.

[00:15:24] He says, no, that’s not really the reason that if I was trying to, this is the worst time to launch a tech company or rename or rebrand is in the middle of this stuff. So it makes no sense for me to, throw this in there so I can get this, but he’s also it’s very, very blatant that he’s trying to win back the younger demographics.

[00:15:43] Do you think Facebook or Metta can win back younger people?

Do You Think Meta Will Win Back The Younger Audience?

[00:15:49] Erik Fisher: I think it depends on what the technology ends up being and how accessible it is because right now, I mean here, think about this the, the Oculus quest, which will become the Metta quest rebrand, right? The Oculus is going away to the name, Oculus.

[00:16:06] It will be Metta. If you think about what it costs to, to purchase that’s not cheap.

[00:16:12] Jeff Sieh: It’s however, Yeah,

[00:16:15] Erik Fisher: however, I’m holding up a phone, that’s worth two or three of those headsets. So it’s like a pot calling kettle black. So I but I think that in terms of, we we’re, we’re only, still now at the point where internet, the access of it being Utila utilitized or, becoming a utility that is included.

[00:16:39] If you’re renting from somebody, that kind of. Like they’ve got your water. You’ve got your electricity, you got your heat. You’ve got your internet, like access to it as one thing, but then having to buy something to then get access to it. I don’t know. I think that ultimately it’s going to depend on how not just cool and, experiential.

[00:17:02] But how easy it is to get to it, because you can’t forget that Facebook was just another website and it still is just another website. Even prior to, there being apps on phones and things like that, it was just a, you go to facebook.com. Oh, I, and I have a school address. Cool. And then beyond that, it was a little outside of the existing schools and all that kind of stuff.

[00:17:24] That’s in the social network movie. Right. You But that’s the thing is it’s not about who gets it first or what they’re using it for anymore. It’s about what’s the actual value of the metaverse and if it has, because here’s the thing, if it’s not really worthwhile for me to go pretend hike with friends in the metaverse and it’s better for me to go do that in real life.

[00:17:53] Then we’ll go that way. I’m talking about the digital pendulum swinging one way or the other, there’s there’s because there are certain generations where it’s well, the old generation, like they plugged in phones all the time. We’ll be the generation that unplugs and then the other one behind them swinging back the other way.

[00:18:09] And meanwhile, everybody having hybrid. So anyway, so

Networking in VR

[00:18:13] Jeff Sieh: here’s the thing. You know, I’ve talked to my parents and they still have trouble understanding. That I have friends that are on, in that I on life, like you and I see each other three times a year at the most. Yes.

[00:18:27] Erik Fisher: It’s been just recently. We did, but before that, prior to COVID even w COVID out of the picture, let’s just say COVID doesn’t exist.

[00:18:36] Great. It was about three times a year, right? Sieh. Physical in the same physical space.

[00:18:43] Jeff Sieh: So when I tell people like I have, accountability groups and I meet with a mastermind online and we’re spread across the world, they’re like, how can you have relationships and productive relationships out of that kind of stuff?

[00:18:58] But I’m like I meet weekly. I, we, more with these people than I do, like people at my church or whatever, so, so I get it. So you can’t like, and then we get together, it’s like nothing. It’s just continuing the conversation. So I get how this could be the next thing I can see how that is.

[00:19:17] I think the, as the, it gets cheaper and we’re going to talk about AR and some of that other than. Where, it’s already built, it’s already baked into some phones. So I think that kind of stuff would be, something, but this VR stuff it’s getting cheaper. It’s really cool. And the more people that, try it, I think are going to be like, oh my gosh.

[00:19:39] And the smart thing. They went with kids and they did gaming first. Like they bought heaps, spent a lot of money on Oculus and he spent a lot of money. Like what does it, Vader immortal. That is just an amazing game. If you’re a star wars fan I almost cry when I put on Oculus and I was able to fly an X wing with rogue squadron and have my joists.

[00:20:02] There’s Jew and you’re in a cockpit of an egg. Oh my gosh, every fan boy’s dream you can do. And I don’t, I think if they would play. And I got star wars convention and just say, Hey, try this. They would sell out of Oculus is like that day. It’s that cool? Anyway, uh, so I think it’s on its way.

[00:20:19] I think they’re starting to win back younger people, it’s going to be from the commercials and what he’s even said, that’s their big push. So it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out. But one of the things I do want to talk about is in, it’s very confusing to a lot of people and even me who has one, but what is the difference between.

[00:20:39] AR Mr. And now XR. Oh my gosh, what is going on? So here’s let me, this is what I tried to, I scoured the interwebs and the interesting thing is a lot of people do not. It’s still morphing. It’s still this is new stuff. So as of now, this is what it’s from the consensus that I’ve found. So VR is like this Oculus this is where you strap it on, you enter a virtual world, you’re not in your body and you’ve, you’re, you’re interacting with the virtual rural world.

[00:21:13] So that’s what the RS, that’s like ready player one, if you put seen that. So AI. It’s snap Linzess. If you put something on and it’s imposed over you, so that’s augmented reality. That’s. It’s almost like Jarvis, like when he was in the suit and he would have all those HUD devices Tony stark, he knew he was iron man.

[00:21:37] It’s stuff, super imposed. Like when you’re walking around Google glass did this, that was the first kind of experience with this. So that’s already here. It’s already coming. You can get that kind of stuff. You think about Google translate. Where you can hold it up and look at a sign and it’ll translate for you.

[00:21:52] Now, it actually will listen to what people are saying and will actually speak it to you like the star Trek translator. So this stuff’s here already. AMR is mixed reality. So that’s the merging of real and virtual worlds together to produce new environments and visible visualizations where like physical and digital co objects co-exist at the same time.

[00:22:15] So that is like Pokemon. That’s pretty much what that was. That was when you would go out and you would find those Pokemon and they would, they would be interacting. I remember one was hiding from my mother-in-law, which is hilarious. So those are already there. So an apple has got that stuff baked in with its depth, sensing technology, all that stuff.

[00:22:37] The next step is that’s going to probably come way faster in my opinion than another. And there’ll be a

[00:22:43] Erik Fisher: lot more. Yeah, there’ll be a lot more advances in, in, in that realm for now because the tech has to really get more powerful and more compacted for, especially.

[00:22:58] Jeff Sieh: Yep. And the last one XR is extended reality.

[00:23:03] It’s this new term to the D all these definitions of these technical worlds. So for now only, there’s only a few people who are really aware of this. Now you guys are extended reality, refers to all of the real and virtual combined and environments to human machine interactions by tech, computer technology and wearable.

[00:23:22] So it’s like an umbrella term. For everything that fits underneath it. So you’re going to hear a lot more about XR as these other technologies developed. So VR, virtual reality AR augmented reality, Mr. Is mixed reality and XR is extended reality. So the XR they made this term, so it would help with not confuse the public.

[00:23:45] And I think it does the opposite of that. So it’s just another term people have got to notice. So that’s what the difference between all those things are. Erik. I know you and I both used Oculus as a work thing, would you go around with Oculus strapped to your face all day, if you had to work, like if we’re going to talk about in the next section, but some of these tools that are coming, would you do that?

[00:24:09] Is that something, how long can you spend in this. That’s

[00:24:13] Erik Fisher: a good question. So yeah, I think my limit is probably an hour or two at any given time. And again, that’s, that goes to what I was talking about earlier in terms of the technology, not just the technology, being more powerful and being higher frame rate, higher resolution, but losing some of the bulkiness and the head weight of it, because, you it needs more breathability. It needs more just, it needs more flexibility. It needs to be compacted a bit. It needs to be more like goggles instead of uh, a horse feed trough. That’s

[00:24:53] Jeff Sieh: like going down your head and they made it lighter. So I’ve had from the rift to the go to the first Oculus, and this is the Oculus to now I’ve added some things.

[00:25:03] I’ve got a extra pad that I put in. I am so nerdy that I usually wear glasses. I have prescription lenses that pop on over there. So I don’t have to wear, when I take off my glasses, I don’t want to scratch my things. And I, so I can just, I have prescription lenses and this thing has an extended battery.

[00:25:21] This headset that they sell that from Oculus and it tightens to the back of your head, which is really. But the problem with these, they’re always heavy on your face. They’re front heavy, and this has a battery at the back that actually counterbalances it. So I really like the setup that I have here.

[00:25:39] But you’re right. I even with all of this and the comfort that I’ve invested in it, I’m not going to wear this for more. It’s hard for me to get through a full. One movie. I was gonna say movies

[00:25:49] Erik Fisher: in a pushing the

[00:25:49] Jeff Sieh: limit right now, even that I’m like, golly, cause like I, you the cool thing is if they now made stuff inside of the Oculus quest environment where you can double tap and it will go to your camera and you can walk around and you can see your environment, you’re not blind pass through.

[00:26:07] The other cool thing is that I really is that they have new. Environment. So I like, I drew my desk, so I have an advisor at my desk and I can look over it. And I see my couch. I have a thing of my couch where outlined, so I can get up and move to my couch and then everything moves with me. So they’re already starting to do these things, to allow you to spend more time in it and make it easier to interact with your real world.

[00:26:33] So very cool stuff. Here’s the other question, Erik. So VR, that’s the thing that you strap on your face and you’re in an environment there’s things that Disney and other places, other amusement parks now where you can ride roller coasters with it. And also. So AR is here now. Like you can, a lot of stuff you can get you can actually see when the new phone comes out, what it looks like on your table.

[00:26:58] Like you could, do it the AR and drop stuff in, and you can do the, actually take like furniture and drop it in your room to see how it looks like it’s in these apple devices now. So do you think because of it’s already built into apple, that AR is going to go faster than VR, like development, because it’s easier for people to, to have access.

Which will Grow Fastest? VR or AR?

[00:27:21] Erik Fisher: I think so because it’s, it continues to move AR continues to move at a really fast rate. I’ll give you an example in Jeff, you’ll love this Allbirds. So the shoe Allbirds has an app and that app allows you to virtually try on shoes. And so I had, I did that. I picked a certain kind of it said, see how these look on your feet.

[00:27:45] Pointed them down at my feet and the ones that I was already wearing disappeared. And the new ones appeared there and I went them around and it was like, this is amazing. I know how these will look like on my feet, like in the space that I’m in and everything. And it was like, it was the most clear experience that I’ve seen of AR interacting in the actual space that it was like, it looked it real.

[00:28:12] Like I could not tell. That I wasn’t wearing those new shoes already. And it was like, so it blew me away, I think, because we’re already that far in, and it’s that close AR is definitely going to stay ahead for awhile. Think about it this way. When did lawnmower man come out and even before that, like

[00:28:32] Jeff Sieh: VR,

[00:28:33] Erik Fisher: virtual reality has been like, even at its earliest implementations where.

[00:28:40] Kind of working. Remember, like it’s been so long, but we are. Again, I think we’re hitting an inflection point where momentum has built up for so long and the technology’s there. And I think that partly due to. Dr. Berg announcing this. It’s validating it to a certain extent as a mainstream pursuit, not just for Metta, but everybody else who’s working on this.

[00:29:07] Jeff Sieh: So you have younger kids than I do. And I remember Pokemon go was just like this huge everybody all the time I got to go do it. Is there still stuff? I know Harry Potter, there’s a Harry Potter game that does that. Are your kids doing still doing the Pokemon go. And is that still.

[00:29:23] Erik Fisher: It’s funny, you asked that because my son has finally now been allowed to do it for the very first time.

[00:29:30] And he has to, he has to do thanks to thanks, apple for springtime. He has to ask to be able to do it. I’ve got it turned off until he asks, but as of a week or two ago, he’s been able to do it and it’s brand new to him, although he’s been aware of it and his sister still does it. So it’s like now they can do it together.

[00:29:50] It’s not gone. In fact there was, I don’t know the News here, but there was a lot of like updates and things that just happened recently with Pokemon go okay.

[00:30:00] Jeff Sieh: So it’s there and it’s almost get to the point, aR is like, it just happens. It’s just oh yeah, that’s AR it’s not a big you know, you could even movie posters, you can go to Marvel posters and do stuff and they’ll come to life and do really cool stuff.

[00:30:16] What you’re at the theater. I mean, it’s out there commercially. And it’s, it’s pretty exciting. Uh, Mr. Mixed reality is still more and more. I thought. Uh, some of the apple stuff that had coming where you could S you could do your, that depth camera, and you could have like bubbles and stuff in your room and you can move your hand and it would affect the stuff.

[00:30:37] Mixed reality is actually going to have like real objects and virtual coming together. I don’t think that’s there quite yet. An XR, we talked about as the umbrella term over everything, but something that is here right now is Ecamm and they just launched a new, a brand new release.

[00:30:52] Um, it’s amazing. So what we’re using for this show, switching, everything, recording podcast, you mentioned mix tracks the split tracks before you can do that with Ecamm and actually records your guests. Yeah. Your output and you separate tracks and you mix it together also as a podcast. It’s a great tool.

[00:31:10] You find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm all right. For our final section, we’re going to be talking about what this means for business. It’s really interesting. Cause a lot of times we hear this new stuff and we poopoo it.

[00:31:30] We’re like, this is silly. You will never have flying cars, that kind of thing. But you know, they really think that a lot of these technologists thinks it’ll eventually evolve to something like the metaverse. It probably is not gonna be anything what we’re thinking about today, but it’s going to be, they’re saying it’s going to be transferred as transformative, to society and industry as the mobile phone.

[00:31:53] Cause you think back before. I remember bag phones. I’m that old? I remember bag phones, but you think about cell phones now, and Erik even pointed out all this stuff, that’s preloaded on it. Um, it’s, it’s going to probably change, in the next five years, more than anything we thought. Uh, in fact, Facebook has even announced even more meta plans or Metta has announced more meta plans.

Facebook’s AR Headset Project Cambria

[00:32:16] Jeff Sieh: They’re going to introduce next year, a project came Kamia, which I would have changed that name. That’s too close to. Yeah,

[00:32:25] Erik Fisher: a little too close to home specifically for of all

[00:32:28] Jeff Sieh: people come on, anything with the Sieh stay away from Facebook. So it’s a high end, mixed reality headset. They previewed it at one of their shows and it’s going to connect virtual graphics with real world and in full color, the interesting thing that they’ve said about this stuff they’re going to be eye tracking so you can see.

[00:32:48] Like when you’re looking over to the side, you can tell that you’re not paying attention to me or you’re scratching your head and looking up. I would be able to tell that in VR. Yeah. So it’s supposed to be allow more realistic avatars and they’re also working on a pair of AR glasses called Nazare I think is how you pronounce it and are still several years out on that one.

[00:33:06] And Zuck says, they’re going to be, those glasses are going to be just as widely used as mobile phones, which Facebook foam really didn’t work. Take that as you may. So it’s supposed to look like a normal pair of glasses, but it’s going to be like Jarvis. And um, it’s going to be, he wants us to think less of it as a Social Media product and something else, like a phone, he wants that tech kind of stuff.

[00:33:32] So interesting stuff. The other thing slack is coming to Oculus. You mentioned that they’re going to change the name. They’re actually making it now. So there’s a big uproar in the VR community when Oculus two came out and they got an update and you had to have a Facebook account to use the Oculus.

[00:33:49] Now they’re going away from that and you’re not going to have all these different, you, you won’t break your Oculus if you don’t want to be on Facebook. Uh, that was interesting to hear about as well. Also, Microsoft teams is coming next year to VR. So it’s not just like this. You know, maybe this it’s a great ideas.

[00:34:11] This is stuff that’s happening in these other big companies are behind this too. Facebook horizon workroom is another thing that is coming out. Logitech announced a keyboard that you’re allowed. You’re going to be able to type on in VR. I’ve played with a little bit of some of the third-party workspaces, and it’s cool to have monitors as big as you want.

[00:34:31] And as many as you want and wrapped around you You know, we’ll we, we take these Instagram photos of our desk now and have our perfect desk set up. Will it be a one with VR who knows? And so horizons work rooms already here in beta. I’ve been trying to get on. I was having some issues logging on the other really interesting thing.

[00:34:53] And we talked about that until you experience it, you don’t really get it. And this was announced like two days ago, but Metta may open physical stores. And the interesting thing in these articles. So they said, we don’t know if they’re going to sell anything. It may just be to see portal and the Oculus and to try it on.

[00:35:12] So that’s a big deal, I think for you know, cause when apple opened their stores, it took off. And speaking of apple, they’re working on a headset and AR glasses. So they’ll probably be a lot better designed than a lot more expensive. So what do you think about all this stuff, Erik? Like all the news and Microsoft and then slack.

Microsoft and Slack VR Versions

[00:35:35] Jeff Sieh: I, I just didn’t think slack would do it, but I’m like, they’re going to.

[00:35:40] Erik Fisher: Yeah, I think it’s interesting that slack is coming to the Oculus. I also noticed that messenger integrated with that messenger being Facebook messenger. And then also saw that there was a beta of the Facebook app as well as Instagram.

[00:35:59] For Oculus, I didn’t, yeah, I downloaded them. I haven’t tried them. It’ll be interesting to see how, what the user interface is in a virtual space like that, interacting with social media content. I’m going to have to try that out and report back on that. I mean, I think that this, I think that with the the moment there’s a momentum shift here, I think that’s the key piece is that.

[00:36:27] We will see a lot more in this space coming faster. Now that there’s been an overarching and intentional move in that direction. All, all of the stuff up till this point has been, oh, Facebook acquired Oculus. Oculus is a separate brand. It’s called now. They’re just saying no that w in other words, we’re moving towards the next overall macro thing.

[00:36:51] We’re not looking at all these different pockets of micro software. We’re Into, they already were in the hardware with Oculus, but now they’re into Oculus as a way of life in a way it’s like the, let’s just say it’s like the XR way of life is what it seems like Metta is I’m trying to not call them Facebook is, is pushing forward as what their goal is.

[00:37:18] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And um, Forbes had a really interesting thing about business and VR and all this stuff out not very long ago. And one of the things, and I thought this was really interesting because this has to do with events and they said they really see a use case. You could watch something on your computer.

[00:37:38] Let’s say like a virtual conference, like we’re all familiar with, but then you’re able to go into your VR and interact with people from that event. And there’s already been events that have done this. And they’ve said it’s been really successful because there is a little more intimacy than in getting into VR and having an avatar and interacting with people and letting them draw on a whiteboard there.

[00:37:57] And you’re there interacting with them at the same time. I can see that happen. For events, because going into a breakout zoom room, isn’t the same thing as going in there and being able to interact inside of a virtual reality kind of room. So then if you could have slack, if you’re doing a team, so I can see that I could see some really cool business things, even in the midst of, uh, still having these hybrid type of, conferences.

[00:38:25] So I would love, I’ve gone to some concerts in VR. I’ve watched some. Of the space X launches in VR, which were really cool. So I think those kinds of things that you wouldn’t be able to go and do would be, if I could go to Adobe max, which is a big designer summit, and I could go in and interact with some of the high-level designers, that would be cool.

[00:38:49] If we could go watch Jim Gaffigan and sit together. On a stick, like on the front row and look up and watch him perform. I would dig. If you could do that with YouTube, you’d pay, you would pay 30 bucks a ticket. If you could go and watch YouTube in VR, probably. Yeah, I think

[00:39:07] Erik Fisher: so. I mean, I, I paid what, 15 bucks or something to stream a concert the other day, a couple of months, a month or so ago from Chicago to my home here, three hours away on my big screen TV.

[00:39:19] And it was like, it was totally worth it. I felt like I was there in a way I was partaking in something alive. It’s just that if I was able to have a 360 camera there, that would be my. Um, proxy. Perfect.

[00:39:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, totally. Let me in. And the thing we haven’t even touched upon and they said was a big deal with businesses is one is the crypto currency inside of these, of uh, kind VR.

[00:39:44] You know, worlds and also NFT. So if you don’t know what NFT is, a non fungible token, like it’s a digital baseball card that you with blockchain, you own that number of that, and it’s yours, but it’s not real. And so they think there’s a big market for NFTs inside of VR. So who knows? Disney just partnered.

[00:40:09] I saw, I think it drops today with a big NFT in their super. Corporate con commercial stuff, but you could buy like a gold statue of Elsa as an NFT, probably for 300 bucks. It’s just anyway, stuff’s happened in folks inside it. And so I think that the default thing for us is to go, oh, that’s ridiculous.

[00:40:32] No, one’s going to pay for an NFT. They already are there people have, yeah,

[00:40:39] Erik Fisher: it’s happened. It’s happening. It will happen more often. This is the key. I think Jeff, you almost need to have a, an annual state of the metaverse episode or even every six months, something along those lines, just because I think there’s going to be an uptick in activity in this front.

[00:40:56] And it definitely means we’ve got to be thoughtful and aware of. Like I was alluding to earlier you know, locked down in terms of technology and limits and boundaries and thinking about what we’re using it for and why we need, we want to, or need to use it. What are the benefits? What are the downsides?

[00:41:18] Let’s keep all of that in mind as we adopt this new technology, because remember there was a point in time where. You didn’t have cell phones and you didn’t have smartphones. And yet we move past both those lines fairly quickly. And now it’s a constant, a smartphone on your person at all times is default for most people, right?

[00:41:42] In the modern

[00:41:43] Jeff Sieh: commercial world. We’re, you you and I are going to Disney world. For a conference Lumon jealous momentum this weekend and we’re there right now. And the, the power of VR and the thing is that’s interesting is Disney has moved to almost everything with their phones. If you don’t have a smartphone, I don’t know how you’d navigate Disney world.

[00:42:05] You got your ticket on their mobile orders for food your reservations, you unlock your room for your hotel. You can get a physical card, but they’re trying to phase that out. They don’t even give you magic bands. You have to buy them separate. So it’s moving that way too. This Tech’s going to be around.

[00:42:23] And yeah, I think we may have to do a show every week, every six months or so as things change, but we want to know what you guys think, let us know in the comments. And we will definitely check on those to see is this something you see the future going towards? When, when stuff happens, when there’s a momentum shift or a new technologies, there’s always opportunities.

[00:42:44] So do you see an opportunity for your business? We didn’t even touch it. Marketing how that’s going to change in with the, marketing and VR and, oh, let me start this.

[00:42:55] Erik Fisher: You mentioned marketing, you mentioned VR and I immediately go to what the goal of the bad guy in, or the villain in ready player.

[00:43:04] One was just to be able to, when you put the headset on everywhere, you look is ads and I’m like,

[00:43:11] Jeff Sieh: so it’s when we talk about AR it’s easy for me to think of. Minority report. Remember when Tom cruise walked and they were scanning his irises and all the specialized ads were coming just for him and him seeing himself in those clothes.

[00:43:24] And then it started going and they tracked him and, they can track what your, just think of how much information Metta will be able to gather, because they’re doing eye tracking. Like you go to a website. They’re going to be able to see what you look on first, where you click off and how fast and all that stuff.

[00:43:42] There’s all sorts of data points when you strap on a device that they can collect. So it’s going to be really interesting with privacy. So let us know down below what you guys think. Thank you much so much for being on the show today. Thank you for everybody walked walking. We had some people commenting uh, Corinda is here.

[00:44:03] Lisa is watching us on Amazon Live. Thank you guys so much. Thank you for watching. I want to know if you guys have the Oculus and how often you use it, because I strap it on once in a while, but I don’t, I don’t do it like more than an hour because then it just gets, it gets a little weird.

[00:44:19] But anyway, that’s our show today, Erik Fisher, where can people find out more about everything?

[00:44:25] Erik Fisher: Yeah best place is first off go to beyond the to-do list.com and check out the podcast. We’ve got episodes where we talk about technology and boundaries and things like that. All the kind of, Hey, let’s be safe about this stuff as we’re integrating it and using it in our lives spent fully making it productive.

[00:44:45] But to hit me up on Twitter twitter.com/erik with a K the letter J F I S H E R. That’s probably the easiest.

[00:44:55] Jeff Sieh: So cool. Yeah. And he’s got a turn of awesome podcast. Go check him out. Like some people who don’t even use technology um, oh gosh, what’s his name? The. He doesn’t, you can’t even contact him on, oh, uh,

[00:45:11] Erik Fisher: yeah, I’m thinking of it right now.

[00:45:13] Three bill Newport.

[00:45:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So yeah, go check out. Erik has podcasts. Amazing. It has some great guests. We are also a podcast, so make sure you guys go check us out. Just do a search for Social Media is live on your favorite podcast player and leave us a rating and review. We’d really appreciate it.

[00:45:30] Thank you guys so much for being here. We will be back next week at. At the regular time, we’re always on Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, Amazon Live all the places. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Thanks so much for watching everybody. We’ll talk to you later.

[00:45:50] Ecamm: You got us all. We all look like a hot mess.

[00:45:53] Jeff Sieh: No, it’s actually a powerful live-streaming app for Matt because he can’t block. So you able to use your mirrorless camera as a virtual webcam and you can tweak the colors, and Ecamm Live using a camera effects and then bring this video right into zoom.

[00:46:05] Google meet pretty much any other virtual meeting at you can even stream directly to Facebook or YouTube or LinkedIn and bringing comments right onto the.