Wow! Here’s a shocking stat. Do you know that 95% of employees are currently considering changing jobs, and 92% are willing to switch industries to land a new position… just as worker shortages rise? Are you looking to make this leap too?
LinkedIn Expert, Viveka von Rosen joins us to share what you need to have on your LinkedIn Profile to establish your expertise in your current role and set yourself up for success in finding your next one.
Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.
[00:00:04] Grace Duffy: [00:00:04] And I’m Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media.
[00:00:11] And today’s show is brought to you by Restream the number one live streaming platform that allows you to go to over 30 online destinations. We’re going to talk about that a little bit more because we have a lot to cover today, but to find out more, go to socialmedianewslive.com/Restream
[00:00:34] Jeff Sieh: [00:00:34] That’s right. And today we are joined by Viveka von Rosen, and we’re going to be chatting about what you need to have on your LinkedIn profile to establish your expertise in your current role and set yourself up for success in finding your next job.
[00:00:48] And we’re gonna explore how to build a personal brand on LinkedIn using new creator tools and video, some best practices and tips for creating video for LinkedIn and how we should. Be networking on LinkedIn the right way with Viveka. So, we also want to make sure that you guys know all about my friends over at Ecamm.
[00:01:07] They’re also the sponsor of the show. That’s how we make the show look so awesome. They have a great new, a seminar coming up called Leap Into Live. You can find out more at leapintolive.com. We’ll be talking about that more later, but anyway, just want to let you guys know. I want to give a shout out really quick to our friend Sabrina.
[00:01:21] She goes, hi. And it’s Sabrina. Well, hi Sabrina. It is Friday. So good to see you here again this week. DZ studios is here going Hey, back at ya DZ studios. So, good to see you here as well. So, if you guys don’t know who Viveka is, you really should because she is amazing. I’ve known her for a while.
[00:01:40] I’ve watched her talk at Social Media Marketing World. She’s amazing. She is the co-founder chief visibility officer, master trainer, and head a personal branding at Vengreso. She is an author and LinkedIn expert. She’s written a 101 Ways To Rock LinkedIn, and she’s got an updated version of her book as well.
[00:02:00]She’s also written a LinkedIn Marketing An Hour A Day, and she speaks on the topic of LinkedIn on stages all over the world and all over the interwebs Viveka. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:12] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:02:12] Thank you so much. It’s so good to see both of you again. Yay.
[00:02:15] Jeff Sieh: [00:02:15] It’s awesome. And if you’re watching over on Amazon live, we have actually got her books down below.
[00:02:20] So anytime during the show today, you can just click on those books down there and check those out because if you’re needing LinkedIn, these are the books that you need to read. So anyway, Grace! Take it away.
[00:02:31] Yes. Yes. Well, you are the expert on rocking it on LinkedIn. And before we get started into our topic of job hunters and recruitment today, tell us it’s a little bit more about Vengreso with one S and he’s your role of chief visibility officer?
[00:02:48] What does that entail?
[00:02:51] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:02:51] Yeah. So Vengreso is actually a combination of two words, Ventis and Agreso, sales and revenue. When we came together to create the company were like, okay, do we want to be like social selling experts.com? Or do we want to be more like a Google which would allow us actually to move into any direction that we wanted to.
[00:03:07] So we decided to be more like a Google our, our, by the people that we work with the most are B2B sales team. Which normally you’d go, well, sales teams, what does that have to do with looking for a job, but it does because it has to do with how are you selling yourself online? Not in a Amsterdam kind of way, but like, how are you actually positioning yourself online?
[00:03:29] So I’m excited to talk about that. And I think you’ve got some really wild facts and numbers and statistics that like just blew me away quite frankly. So we’ll talk all about. Yeah,
[00:03:42] Jeff Sieh: [00:03:42] Grace, this first a is one of them is what we’re talking about. This great resignation that we’ve all heard about.
[00:03:48] So talk about that. What is that all about?
[00:03:50] Grace Duffy: [00:03:50] Well, this is the topic that prompted the topic for the show, right? Is this, are you ready for the great resignation? So basically it’s as more and more workers are. Getting past, COVID getting, going back to the office, all that, all these changes, like more and more people are deciding to leave their jobs and justice businesses.
[00:04:09] And this is happening just as businesses are facing a worker shortage. And this shift is being called the great resignation. And they’ve been, I’ve been hearing a lot of reports about it. And so. There. Yeah. There’s several factors, right? So people have either reprioritized they’ve discovered new skills or passions.
[00:04:26] I know at Restream we found a lot of people really discovered live streaming. Right. And building a business that way, for instance. Right. Yeah. Hey, we made it. We’re surviving. We feel empowered to take risks, right? There’s also some other negatives like burnout, the cost of childcare, lack of growth opportunities.
[00:04:43] And then also people finding that remote work was just ideal. There, continue to look for that. So some stats that we found from on Monster.com Is that 95% of workers are currently considering changing their jobs in 92 are willing to swich industry to land that new position. Now this is rather high. I’ve seen anywhere from 40% to 70%.
[00:05:05] And then this is funny, Jeff sent this to me. As we were preparing for this show, it was an article called every marketer wants to quit and it was from a stat from Marketer Hire. And the survey that they put out there said that 78% of marketers are saying that marketing is about to see a great resignation. And 48% said that they are personally planning to quit.
[00:05:25] Wow this before the end of the year. Right? So, and at the same time again with the labor department reporting that there’s a record of 9.3 million job openings as of their latest Talia. And I think this was from a few weeks ago, so. And all this. We want to talk about how to empower yourself on LinkedIn, how to sell yourself, not in an Amsterdam way, like you said, but whether it’s a product, a service, a sale, a new business that you’ve just launched, let’s talk about what you can do to make a powerful and positive first impression.
Making A Positive First Impression on LinkedIn
[00:05:59] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:05:59] Perfect. Yeah. It’s really interesting. We’ve even seen some turnover in our company. We’ve had several employees like decide I’m going to move to another country with weird time zones, or I’m going to, go back to school. I’m going to start my own company. So we’ve actually seen some of that in Vengreso itself.
[00:06:18]It’s really amazing how. How COVID kind of opened our minds to what was possible. And I love what you said. Grace it helps to empower you. So that being said, a lot of people then go, okay, well, I got to get on LinkedIn because I’m going to look for a job or maybe I’m going to start my own business.
[00:06:35]And I need, vendors, contractors, et cetera. And then the first thing they do is create a resume online. Cause they’re looking for a job. But just like in sales, it, it makes a little bit more sense to have a LinkedIn be your resume. But if you want to differentiate yourself from everybody else out there, who’s now had this great idea that they’re going to go find another job you need to stand out.
[00:07:00] Grace Duffy: [00:07:00] Yeah, absolutely. So, Jeff, you had a question about LinkedIn premium.
[00:07:05] Jeff Sieh: [00:07:05] That’s one of the questions. I think a lot of people, so a lot of people are looking for jobs and they’re thinking about. That number was so high that even considering it, like, there are people just like ready to leave. In fact, I wanted to bring up some of these comments.
[00:07:19]Like Gary says a record 4.4 new businesses were created in 20, 20 many the new entrepreneurs who struck out on their own, which is great. And then like, Sabrina said she goes, my sister said, And retired. So, and people are moving. Like Gary says that one of their team members moved to Thailand and still works for us.
[00:07:37] So a lot of these people are like, okay, I know LinkedIn is important for finding a new job. Should I pay for this for the premium edition? I don’t even what they call it. Or am I okay? Because a lot of times, when you quit, you’re like holding on to every dollar you can while you’re.
[00:07:54] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:07:54] Yeah, I, I think it really depends on what you’re trying to do. So to save a little money when it comes to rebranding and we’ll talk about some things that you can do to rebrand and who you really should be focused on. So when you’re rebranding, LinkedIn and your profile, you really don’t need a premium account where you might start looking at a premium account is the job seeker account.
[00:00:00] Grace Duffy: [00:00:00] Okay. We were talking about the, yeah, we were talking about LinkedIn premium and is it worth doing and Viveka, you were making this amazing point that you can do a lot of the branding and stuff that you need to position yourself and you don’t necessarily need premium.
Do I need LinkedIn Premium?
Viveka Von Rosen: [00:00:12] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So everything, all the features and we’ll deep dive maybe not. We’ll deep dive into all of these free features coming up next, but things like your background, image, video, cover stories, name, pronunciation, which is an audio mini elevator speech. Your headline, the featured media, where you can almost create a portfolio depending on what you do.
[00:00:37]The about section, which is like a sales page. Sharing newsletters that they’re new on LinkedIn. They’re awesome. Peg knows. Peg knows because a few select people got newsletters and now they’re becoming more widely available and it’s so good to see you Peg. So all of these things are available to you for free, so you can help to position yourself for free.
[00:00:59] Now, I don’t know where we got caught off. I was talking a little bit about the job seeker premium accounts and the sales navigator accounts. Those are great if you need them, but when you are looking for a new job, sometimes we’re, counting the pennies and things like that. So I say, don’t invest in a premium tool, until you hit that point where you’re like, okay, I need the live stream for more work for more than one platform. Now I need to invest in something, right. I need to be able to engage or connect with a few people who are outside of my network, that LinkedIn is not letting me do. So now I have to invest into sales navigator or job seeker.
[00:01:34] So that’s what I would recommend. But when you’re starting out in almost everything we’re going to talk about today, Is available for free. So you absolutely don’t need to invest in premium just to commence on your new journey into a new position.
[00:01:51] Jeff Sieh: [00:01:51] See, I think that’s great advice because so many times it’s like anything else, like you think that, well, if I pay for something, I’ll, it’ll be better and it’ll increase my chances.
[00:01:59] Like I need to buy this new live streaming thing because it’ll make me better. When it’s not really, it doesn’t really matter. So that’s great to note. One of the things, there was an article on on Forbes this week and it was called it was the biggest, what was the biggest error thousands of professionals make on LinkedIn every day.
[00:02:17] It was all about networking. So it got like the five the top five blunders, networkers of all kinds making, they were cold pitches, blind outreaches to strangers, which we all love so much on LinkedIn. And when it, but when it comes to sales, whether it’s a product or service or yourself, what can we do to make a powerful and positive first impression on LinkedIn?.
How Can We Make A Powerful First Impression on LinkedIn?
[00:02:38] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:02:38] Yeah. Well, ironically when you were creating your or LinkedIn profile, because you’re either going to start your own business or you’re looking for a job, you don’t actually want it to read like a resume. You can upload your resume if you want to. There’s different ways you can get that.
[00:02:52] You can actually add your resume to the featured section. So you can certainly get your resume to whoever might need to read it. It’s public. So, get rid of like personal phone numbers and things like that. But your LinkedIn profile really needs to be a resource for your audience.
[00:03:07] So if you’re switching industries, then you need to make sure that your LinkedIn profile. Is reflective of the audience of the industry that you’re moving into, if you’re changing a job. But you’re just maybe moving from company A to company B, then your re your resume, your LinkedIn profile needs to talk about how you helped company a achieve success.
[00:03:30]What their struggles were. What you did, what the results were. So really needs to be focused on how you can help your audience, your new company your new employer, as opposed to, oh, I’ve got 25 years in marketing. I worked here, and here. There’s a resume for that.
[00:03:47] And guess what? You can upload it, but really focus on who you help, how you helped them, what makes you different and why you would be either a good hire or why people should hire your new company that you’re creating. And so from the top down, like, let’s just go over it from the top down. A lot of people don’t have a background image or they have a background image from their current company.
[00:04:11]You might want to create a background image that is reflective of you. If you do visual marketing, you could do a collage of maybe some of the graphics that you’ve created. Right. If you’re a speaker, obviously have that on, on, you onstage, if you’re an author, if you go to my profile right now unless you’re listening to this like six months from now, if you go to my profile right now, I see that I’ve got my book up there with my co-author.
[00:04:39]So think about who you are individually, what your offer is, what your service is and how can you visually reflect that in that background image. And if you go to Vengreso with one S, Vengresobanner.com. It will give you the background image sizing for both company pages and personal profiles, you might want to consider creating a company page for your new company.
[00:05:01] If you’re creating a new company, because you might not even have a website yet, but hey, you can create like a mini website by just creating a company page on LinkedIn and start with that branding. The other thing, make sure your photo looks like you we’ve. We’ve got longer hair, less hair.
[00:05:19] We’re bigger. We’re smaller. I mean, let’s face it the past 16 months where I’m smaller, but the past 16 months have changed us physically, emotionally. Spiritually. And you want to look like you do, because if you’re getting interviewed and in real life. Yay. But a lot of interviews are still happening on zoom. And so they see this one picture of you and then you get on zoom and yeah. Who’s that right?
[00:05:44] Cause you’re bigger, smaller balder, longer hair, whatever. So make sure that image is what you look like today. And then I know, I think we’re going to talk about video cover stories a little bit later, so I won’t dive too deeply into that, but there’s a cool hack you can do with that, which we’ll talk about. From your name… the name pronunciation tool, which is available in the mobile app. Only you can see it in, play it on desktop, but in the mobile app only it’s called name pronunciation. Which a, if you’ve got a funky name like me or Jeff it’s right. Jeff Shay no, I know. I know, but I’m that I’m proven my point, right? I’m pretty sure I’ve called you Shay in the past too.
[00:06:24] So that’s okay. I know. I forgive you. That’s all right. So not only can you tell people how to pronounce your name? You can give them a 10, second little elevator speech who you are and why they should hire you. And this is all free and it’s all above the fold and it’s all on LinkedIn.
[00:06:40] And then your headline almost becomes the script quite frankly, for that for that name pronunciation tool. You don’t want to be like, marketing professional with 25 years looking for a job focus on who you’re, I help small to medium sized businesses make a splash online with great graphics and content.
[00:07:04] Right. And then that’s speaking if that’s what you do, that’s speaking directly to your audience. And then later on, they’ll be able to see that you’re available for work, but, and you can even do the little, they’ve got the, a higher rate or available to work, or I forget what it’s called. They even have that. You can add if you want to, but I would definitely focus on who you help and how you help them. Not necessarily, your job experience. Cause like I said, you can upload a resume for that. And your featured section, the about section, the first two lines in the about section are crucial because it’s the old summary section because in less people click on, see more.
[00:07:45] They’re only going to see those first two lines. So you need, we call it a call to read a CTR. You need to have an impactful first and first sentence that people are like, Ooh, I want to learn more about Jeff. I want to learn more about Grace. I want to learn more about Peg. I want to learn more about Jason Goff. He writes for us.
[00:08:05] He knows. He knows what that CTR, that call to read is it’s so people. Click on the read moreor the see more, and then that expands into 2000 characters of real estate. Which you can turn into almost a sales page about you, why people should hire you, why you’re different from every other marketer out there, why you’re different from every other consultant out there, why you’re different from every other contractor out there.
[00:08:31]Why people love working with you, how you make a difference in your company’s life, et cetera, et cetera. And then you can use the featured section. To prove it right by uploading examples of your work by uploading video testimonials or sharing a link to video testimonials by uploading written testimonials, all of those things.
[00:08:53] And again, we’re still pretty much above the fold and people are getting a huge impact of who you are and how you can help them. Meanwhile, competitor over there. It’s like I got 25 years in marketing hiring me. Right.
[00:09:09] You can do that in your video cover story. That’d be funny.
[00:09:13] Grace Duffy: [00:09:13] I think I’m going to change my video cover story, to be that,
[00:09:16] Jeff Sieh: [00:09:16] To be honest, we’ll talk about that a little bit later. I didn’t see that video cover thing until I went to your profile and I’m like, oh, that’s amazing, but we’ll talk about that.
[00:09:24] But one of the questions I want to really quickly about when we’re talking about personal branding and one of the things I also think is very important is networking. And we mentioned, those things about not what not to do that article from Forbes. And we get those cold email calls. I mean, one, I get them because I produced Guy Kawasaki’s podcast. And so exactly tons of people like wanting to be on his show and they see that I’m connected to him and they think that I’m just going to automatically forward that to them or something. I don’t know what, so how can you network in the right way on LinkedIn? I know you probably get even more bonkers type of like requests and, reaching out and LinkedIn mail and all that stuff.
[00:10:04] So how do we use LinkedIn in as a networking tool in the right way?
How Do We Use LinkedIn To Network The Right Way?
[00:10:09] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:10:09] Yeah. So, guys, gals, it’s not about the size, it’s about the quality. It really is. I think the big mistake that people are making and, we, focus on sales. So we really see this a lot. They use automation tools, they get lazy and they just try to connect with as many people as possible.
[00:10:29] And to your point, Jeff, and to Forbes’s point. it’s given LinkedIn a bad name and people are just sick of seeing that spam. We can see you coming a mile away. Oh, it looks like we share some people in the same company. And you can tell by my headline that I’m going to try and pitch you.
[00:10:47] The next thing that we do. Right. oh, I read your book about Facebook. Really my book about Facebook. I’m pretty sure you didn’t just, take a little time when you are going to reach out and ask someone to connect with you. Take a minute, go to their profile, read through their profile.
[00:11:09] We call it the three by three, find three things in their profile. Other than the size of their network, other than, maybe you share a group, see if there’s three things, look at their profile, look at their content. If they’re sharing content, look at their, activity. yes. If you have to look at the groups, look where they live, look where they went to school.
[00:11:30] Maybe you have someone in common because they went to school together. find some humanizing. aspect about their profile. And then when you go to invite them to connect, refer to that. And, just, we can see the sales pitch coming a mile away. Don’t go in…we wouldn’t do that in real life.
[00:11:54] Right. We wouldn’t be at like Social Media Marketing World and Hey, my name is Viveka and you should totally, buy our, service for your company. Like buy me, buy my stuff. Why is it okay to do it on LinkedIn? I just, I don’t get it. Get to know people first and another really cool tool.
[00:12:10] We call it the social surround. If you’re lucky enough that your prospects on LinkedIn are actually sharing content, get into the content, start reading through the content comment on the content, engage in the content. Because then when you invite them to connect you and say, Hey, I read that post. You shared the other day, that Forbes said about five things you shouldn’t be doing on LinkedIn.
[00:12:34] You are spot on, thank you so much for sharing that. And I, would love to connect too. So. That’s just like you would do in real life. You’re having a conversation and then you’re like, Hey, oh, and let’s connect on LinkedIn too. I mean, DUH
[00:12:49] Jeff Sieh: [00:12:49] it’s funny. I have had people do that to me at Social Media Marketing World.
[00:12:52] But, and it’s funny too. It’s like an Erik Fisher, a friend of mine, who’s got a really popular podcast. We both get these pitches like, Hey, I love your podcast. I would love to be on your podcast. I am an underwater basket weaver and has nothing to do. You’ve not listened to my podcast because it’s nothing to do with.
[00:13:09] Why would I want you on my show? So makes you know, like you were saying, it’s gotta make sense. Gary goes, I, this is funny. I notice we both breathe air. We should connect. Yes. So that’s,
[00:13:21] Grace Duffy: [00:13:21] I don’t know. I don’t know. We’re not that past COVID that I’m ready to raise air with people. So I don’t know. We’re not there yet. We’re not there yet, Gary. Sorry.
[00:13:31] Jeff Sieh: [00:13:31] That’s right. Dani says, so true. Those automated messages, so awful, Dani. I’m so glad you got to see us live today. I appreciate you stopping by this is true. Sabrina says, take the time to read and get to know people then connect per what Viveka says. So, Grace, I want you to talk about, because I found this article.
[00:13:47] About, what people are scared about in the workplace. And this was fascinating to me because I didn’t think it was this high, but I guess it makes sense. So talk about that real quick.
[00:13:57] Grace Duffy: [00:13:57] Oh yeah. So we found this article. It was also in Forbes. It was a new research done by the knowledge academy. And they were saying that one of the biggest workplace fears is using LinkedIn.
[00:14:08] And it’s actually number two after asking for a promotion. That’s so, and although it sounds like a random fear, it doesn’t seem random at all. The article breaks it down that like, it’s where you deliver your first impression, right? It’s just, people get nervous about doing that. It’s also a place where you build and nurture your network, learn and grow, reach towards staff, expand your business your thought leadership.
[00:14:29] It’s a lot of pressure, right? It’s a lot of pressure. So LinkedIn is the most powerful online tool for building your personal brand. And I know you went through a great checklist of everything that you need to do to set yourself up for networking and having a really good profile. That’s really strong out there, but my question to you is like, as someone that’s worked in digital marketing my whole life, you and I have done a little things.
[00:14:53] Like you want me to be a graphic designer? That’s great. I am, you want me to do SEO? I’ve done that. Right? Like, I mean, my whole job is something that I never thought I would do until they were like,
[00:15:05] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:15:05] You’re doing it now.
[00:15:06] Grace Duffy: [00:15:06] I’m like, oh, okay. So when you’ve got so many skills and you could see yourself doing anything, what’s a good way.
[00:15:14] Talk about like what your personal brand is when you’re not just one thing.
How Do You Showcase Your Skills on LinkedIn?
[00:15:19] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:15:19] Well, I’m so glad you brought that up and it doesn’t surprise me about LinkedIn being like the number two fear, because LinkedIn is kind of like how we’re on stage now. And of course, being on stages and talking to people is the number one fear, even above death for some people. So, LinkedIn’s just the virtual version of that. So it’s not that surprising. I think that’s why people are afraid of doing video as well. And, I hate to say it, but it’s when I work with people, it’s the pushback I often get is from women saying, oh, I couldn’t say that about myself.
[00:15:50]So, but sorry. Sorry.
[00:15:54] Grace Duffy: [00:15:54] We have to get over it. Yeah.
[00:15:56] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:15:56] Right, right. If we can’t get over it and to actually answer the question you asked me some of the ways that you’re going to want to impart, this vast knowledge to the to the world and let people know, like everything you’re capable of is letting other people say it for you.
[00:16:13] So getting those testimonials and getting those video testimonials. Up onto the featured section. If you’re in fact looking for a job, let other people say how you rocked their world. Right. Let other people say, and you might need to, you might need to script it for them a little bit or give them some talking points.
[00:16:32] Otherwise you might get like, he’s nice. She’s nice. But but if you rocked someone’s business world, like get that testimonial from them and put it up there, cause that other people saying how awesome you are. Will help. Of course, I already mentioned examples of your work. That’s going to help too when it, but to back up even more and Grace, for people who do everything master of many things or for people who are switching entirely into a new industry and a new career, you’ve got to back up a little bit and go, okay, who is my ideal? And helping everyone with a face, helping everyone with a computer, helping anyone who needs marketing. That’s not right, like right market, Hey, 10 gazillion things.
[00:17:20] That’s not gonna help. You need to get really specific about who you are. And I know I’m a broken record who you help and how you help them be very clear on who your buyer persona is. Even if your buyer persona is a company hiring you, what are their needs. And the thing is, especially when you’re looking for a new job, especially, if you’re a contractor looking for new contracts you want work, right?
[00:17:44]You gotta work to get that money to live to build your other job if you, or your other business, if you want to, but you’ve got to work. And so a lot of us are like, I’ll do anything. Like I’ll do anything, just like pay me. And that unfortunately, It doesn’t send a good message. So trying to be everything to everyone, like a you’re gonna burn out and you’re gonna be looking for another job. I think that’s what COVID did. It burned a bunch of us out. And we’re like, I only got so many years left here. I don’t want to spend them doing sucky work, I want to do them, at least making a difference in the world or doing something I love or whatever.
[00:18:25] And so. Like focus on that. And it’s a little woo, woo. But focus on that and make sure that your entire profile, that your entire portfolio that everything that you provide to people focuses on what it is that that, that laser sharp idea of who you help and how you help them and do not try to be everything to everyone.
[00:18:53] Jeff Sieh: [00:18:53] I think that’s, that is loud and clear that what we have to do is like, and it’s hard because you want to take, when you’re desperate, you want to take any job that is in front of you.
[00:19:02] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:19:02] So I get that. So I do live video
[00:19:09] Jeff Sieh: [00:19:09] and yeah, Gary says burnout is real. I think that’s why a lot of people are changing jobs.
[00:19:13] Yeah. He’s agreeing with you, we’re saying. Okay. So by the way, if you’re wanting to showcase a lot of stuff, what you’re doing on LinkedIn, one of the best ways that I have found is with using live video, which we are doing here, and we’re gonna talk about some live video things in a bit, some of the kind of new, cool things that this creates.
[00:19:30] A profile, but I wanted to let you guys know about our friends over at Ecamm, who are also sponsoring the show. Find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm, but they have this really great thing coming up called Leap Into Live Streaming Bootcamp. Yeah. And I will be one of the speakers there.
[00:19:45] And I’m really excited to talk about that when we’re talking about how to take a live show and make it a podcast. We’ve got Pat Flynn speaking there, Leslie Samuel, Stephanie Liu all these people who are amazing. And one of the ways to, get noticed on LinkedIn is doing live video. And the cool thing about that is that, you can do it right on LinkedIn now.
[00:20:01] And so make sure you guys go sign up for this because there are seats are limited, but you can find out more at LeapIntoLive.com. And another way to go live is of course Restream. So talk about
[00:20:18] Grace Duffy: [00:20:18] Ecamm and Restream works so well together, right? Because once you do create that amazing content, once you have that amazing branding and all the graphics that you’re seeing here, you’re on the show.
[00:20:27] There’s no better way to distribute it to anywhere online than with Restream. We’re going live to LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube, and Amazon Live. Did I miss one?
[00:20:38] Jeff Sieh: [00:20:38] Oh, there’s 30. There’s 30 different ones.
[00:20:41] Grace Duffy: [00:20:41] Oh, it’s right now. Yeah, but that’s just a, that’s just a handful of the 30 plus destinations. Right.
[00:20:47] So if you’re using live video in your business, you’re using live video in your personal branding. You’re looking to break out into a new career. I highly suggest this one. So check out more about Restream over at socialmedianewslive.com/Restream.
[00:21:02] Jeff Sieh: [00:21:02] So this next section is. Like I said, I saw Viveka on her profile with some of these new cool things that you could do with a cover story.
[00:21:11] So Grace break down these new things that are in the news, and then I’ll have Vivek actually explain them because they’re there.
[00:21:18] Grace Duffy: [00:21:18] Yeah, absolutely. So these are two things they rolled out. I think end of March, beginning of April, and it’s the ability to add a 32nd intro video to your profiles. So it’s almost like looking at a Harry Potter, like picture, right?
[00:21:33] So as you go there and like, I saw Viveka like moving a little bit. I was like, oh, I should ask her about that all day. And so now I am, and then the other thing is this new creator mode. So Viveka, I don’t want to talk too much about it because you are the one that has this video cover.
[00:21:47] So tell us about it, tell us what they do, how they work and how you make it work for you.
New LinkedIn Video Cover Stories
[00:21:52] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:21:52] Yeah. So video cover stories. Exactly Grace, the Harry Potter effect. So. To reiterate, it’s a 30 secondvideo where you can again tell people who you are, but more importantly, who you help and how you help them. And I’ve seen some really creative stuff with it.
[00:22:08] Like some people are using it to give a daily tip or really more weekly, like, right. Isn’t that cool. If you’re looking for a job and when. You can display what you do visually you could even upload like a little mini video, potentially like a video of a produced video of what you do. That’s under 30 seconds.
[00:22:29]Most people like me are just talking to the camera for 30 seconds about again, who you help and how you help them. I can’t, I wish I could remember. I saw really cool the other day. It was someone whose picture, like they took a picture of themselves like this. And then they shot the video. So the video was actually, I mean, talk about Harry Potter.
[00:22:51] It was like this, and then the person started talking. I mean, it was like, so cool. I don’t have that kind of skillset. But yeah, things like that really helped to differentiate it and think about it. If you’re looking for a job. Chances are most people don’t even know this exists. And so you’ve got an employer or a potential employer looking at your profile and you start talking to them.
[00:23:13] That’s super cool. Especially if you’re talking to them as a buyer persona, not like, Hey John, Hey Jeff. If you’re saying, Hey, if you’re the owner of a small business, I can take you to the next level with my awesome marketing skills, I helped Social Media Examiner do this. And in fact, I’ve got my own live stream.
[00:23:30] You should totally check it out. I’ve put a link. In fact, in my featured area below. So you could actually put CTS and little things like that, or you could check out my resume. In this featured section below. So to get video cover stories for like 10 seconds, you could actually get them on both your phone and online.
[00:23:49] You were just looking for the orange plus button, but I think now they’re back to being just at least to initiate just on your mobile device. So go into the LinkedIn app on your mobile device, either Android or iPhone and then go to your profile, which will be on the top left hand side. And you’re going to click settings by accident.
[00:24:08] Just go back to your profile and click on your profile. And then the version of your profile, like you see online or on the desktop will show up. And if you see an orange plus sign, a little orange plus sign kind of where your picture is to the, I think it’s the bottom right-hand side of your picture.
[00:24:25] Bottom right-hand side of your picture. You click on that plus sign and then you’ll be able to upload that 30 second elevator speech. But be creative, especially for those of you who are marketers, be creative with it. Think about like, this is 30 seconds to show people more about you and what you do and how you do it.
[00:24:45] Like there, I expect to see some really cool video cover stories out there, folks. So that is something that we can make use of. And I believe almost everybody has it. We work with folks all over the world and I always go, Hey, can you let me know if you can get it. And almost everyone has it now, it seems.
[00:25:03] Grace Duffy: [00:25:03] Is this only available on personal profiles or do company pages have this ability as well?
[00:25:08] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:25:08] Oh, great question. Yeah, so far, I mean, as of yesterday, it’s only on personal profiles. Now that I say that, I’ll probably go to my company page and see that you can upload it. You can upload gifts by the way to your company.
[00:25:21] Okay. And then just check there too. But yeah, no the the video cover stories are only available in personal profiles, right?
[00:25:27] Jeff Sieh: [00:25:27] Sabrina says she just looked and she has it. So it, like you were saying, it’s to the question I have, this is maybe something like for strategy would be like, how often should you change it?
[00:25:37] Like that I think, is it something you want, you mentioned somebody doing it like a tip every day or whatever, but we’re more normal people. Like how often?
[00:25:46] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:25:46] Yeah. Yeah. Honestly it depends about the amount of effort you want to put into it to be on it. I did a couple that were kind of sucky and then I spent a long time and it, you can’t tell it’s not that good cause I’m not I’m not actually very good at video and editing and such. But the one I’ve had on there is probably been on there for two months, but it’s still relevant, right? It’s still very relevant to who I am. So it, it really, I think depends on how much effort you want to put into it and how relevant it is to your audience.
[00:26:16]And what you’re trying to relate to them. If you’re trying to relay that you’re quick on your feet and your knowledge and information you want to lay, some new information, some new knowledge on them every day, then hey, go for it. Because that’s really going to reflect who you are.
[00:26:30] If you’ve already got a live, you could get 30 seconds from your live and put it on there and give people a visceral example of what you’re doing. But yeah, mine’s been on there for like three months.
[00:26:45] Jeff Sieh: [00:26:45] So, is there any stats on that? Is there a way to tell how many people have watched it or anything like that.
[00:26:51] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:26:51] Not that I’ve seen, but then honestly, I haven’t really checked in the last couple of weeks. So there should be, that would be awesome. What you probably will see is more views on your profile. Yeah. Like you can see views, right? Yeah.
[00:27:08] Grace Duffy: [00:27:08] Premium gives you an update of like who’s visited your page so you could probably see it.
[00:27:13] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:27:13] Yeah, exactly.
[00:27:15] Jeff Sieh: [00:27:15] So, oh, go ahead. Sorry.
[00:27:19] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:27:19] No, I was just going to reiterate what Grace said. If you don’t have premium, you just have to go see who’s viewed your profile every day. Cause they only show you the last five people. If you have premium, that’s one of the benefits of premium is you can go in like once a week and you get even better stats of who’s viewed your profile, which is probably not a bad.
[00:27:37]That that’s one of the reasons to invest in premium is to be able to see everyone who’s viewed your profile because they’ve looked at you now, you can start that conversation. Very cool.
[00:27:48] Grace Duffy: [00:27:48] I noticed you’ve been creeping on me. Would you like to talk.
[00:27:51]Jeff Sieh: [00:27:51] Here’s a great question. So this is from my friend, Jim, and he says, should we change to creator mode on LinkedIn? So let’s talk about that real quick. So as we move on to creator mode, like other platforms before it like Facebook, TikTok YouTube, LinkedIn is trying to embrace its creator community.
[00:28:06] So LinkedIn says, people love to see creators, give their take on what’s happening in the news, or share insights into a specific industry, whether it’s a video or article or whatever. And so they have this new creator mode on your dashboard. What is creator mode. And what is the benefit of using it on your personal.
New LinkedIn Creator Mode
[00:28:24] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:28:24] Yeah. So creator mode, shuffles things around a little bit on your profile, it pulls your featured section up higher. Theoretically when you add your best hashtags and you use those hashtags in your content, it promotes your content to more people. We haven’t actually seen that. That’s true, but Hey, they say it does.
[00:28:42] So, the only word of caution I would like. So first of all, I’ve creator mode. Obviously I turned it on and I was like, Ooh, everybody should have creator mode .Creator mode is awesome. Everyone can see your activity. It’s higher up. Ooh, Creator mode rocks. And I still feel that way. And what it does as well as it changes your connect button into a follow button.
[00:29:02] So if you’re trying to build a following and you don’t want a bunch of people inviting you to connect, it’s a good thing. So I really appreciated that. And absolutely I’ve got a follow button now instead of a connect button. If you are looking for a job you probably want to make yourself as accessible as possible.
[00:29:22] Think twice about turning on that creator mode. Cause you don’t want a potential employer trying to figure out how to get in touch with you. And in addition to that, you want to probably add your contact information, although you will get spam phone calls and you will get spam email, and I’m sorry, but you will.
[00:29:39]But if you do add your phone number or your email address into your about section then it also easier for recruiters or employers to reach out to you. That was a really long answer. I love creator mode. And if you don’t mind the fact that your connect button turns into a follow button, then absolutely go for it.
[00:30:01] Jeff Sieh: [00:30:01] So here’s the reason that I switched on my creator mode this morning. And it’s because creator mode puts a bigger focus on your LinkedIn live broadcast, furthering the content you share an app. So what it does is actually brings it up to your profile picture when you’re alive. And so that was a big deal for me.
[00:30:19] So, if you are doing a regular live show, would you say that would be a good idea to do?
[00:30:25] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:30:25] Yeah. Now I’ve heard I’ve heard some people say that the live show will go above your profile, even if you don’t have creator mode. I don’t know if that’s true because I’ve got both. So I do love the live shows playing in the, in that banner place, because I mean, that was the biggest complaint of people.
[00:30:47]I want to follow your live. I want to, I, I want to go to your live and then they can’t find it cause LinkedIn sucked at letting people know where the live was happening. So. And by the way, it works on company pages too. And by the way, LinkedIn is giving finally giving more companies lives.
[00:31:04] So we just got our Vengreso live like our, literally our company live instead of using my profile. And that, that live still shows on the company page, which is really cool as well.
[00:31:14] Jeff Sieh: [00:31:14] That’s awesome. That’s really cool. Here’s a question from Robert and he says in your cover stories, have you used CC to your advantage for those who can’t play the audio of your cover story?
[00:31:24] Or to your background stories as a CTA to amplify the message and your video.
[00:31:32] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:31:32] I wish I could say yes. And Robert, we absolutely should. The only thing I did was to stand out, I wrote on a whiteboard our little prospect better seller. That was my CC right there. That was my CC. No yeah, Robert, 100% we should be using closed captioning. And I’m not, but we should be, we absolutely 100% should be.
[00:31:55] Thank you for bringing that up.
[00:31:56] Grace Duffy: [00:31:56] As an alternative you can use you can use something like Restream to record it and then put in captions in there if you want to do that. Cause I’m not a, I’m not a video producer either. Right.
[00:32:09] Jeff Sieh: [00:32:09] And so Gary and Gary, I’m sorry. I said, Gary says I have greater mode and now he doesn’t mind having the follow for versus connect.
[00:32:16] So what were you gonna say? I’m sorry.
[00:32:20] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:32:20] I was, thank you also, Grace, for bringing that up. Like if you are using it right. The streaming tool or a streaming tool, like Restream, there’s so many branding elements that make it awesome. And yeah, shoot your video 30 seconds, do shoot your video, use all those cool features for those of us who are graphically impaired and not, not really video editors because you can look a whole lot more professional and that will definitely.
[00:32:45]That will definitely make you stand out as well. So yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. Grace.
TikTok Video Resumes
[00:32:50] Jeff Sieh: [00:32:50] So Gary has got this great point. He goes, TikTok recently introduced video resumes. Do you think that will catch on? Well, Gary, you read my mind because our next section is all about some LinkedIn video print trends and best practices.
[00:33:02] And the thing is that recently, TikTok did launch that pilot. Throughout July that allows users to apply to jobs to the app using video resumes it’s called TikTok resumes. And so it’s really interesting. Some of these big companies are having it and they got a post with that tech, the hashtag TikTok resumes.
[00:33:20] But I’d really love to know that, this is a test for now. Do you think this is something that may catch on over on LinkedIn because it’s an easy way, especially for those gen Z people and all that stuff. Do you think that will eventually happen over there?
[00:33:33] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:33:33] Oh 100% and I’m laughing to myself.
[00:33:35] It’s like TikTok introduced video resumes. I mean, I get that. They actually have a feature around it, but like, hello, I was went back, literally 15 years ago when I first. Teaching LinkedIn to job seekers back in the day. I was saying, Hey, you should have a video resume. And here’s some examples of good video resumes on YouTube.
[00:33:55] So yeah, it’s not new. But yeah, 15 years later, after a pandemic with gen Z and everyone, or most people being a lot more conversant in video and creating video and sharing video. One hundred percent! I feel like people, if you’ve if you’re willing to make the effort, you should be adding video tests video resumes rather to your LinkedIn.
[00:34:18] And I think you can do it on TikTok, right? And just add that link to LinkedIn and then promote that link to your featured section. And there you go.
[00:34:28] Grace Duffy: [00:34:28] Yeah. Well, this is just a test that they’ve done with like 30 companies. We’ll see where it goes because there’s a lot of career-focused and care focused content over on tic-tac.
[00:34:38] I don’t necessarily think that I would want that on my LinkedIn because a lot of it is just like, Anti management anti-corporate I don’t know that I necessarily want that one my company page, but yeah, exactly. But that leads me to my next question of like LinkedIn is just so buttoned up. It’s very professional, you’re commenting on news stories, people that do video, there are doing a good job of it, you’re not getting a lot of. The snarkiness. It’s a, do you think that LinkedIn video should always be that button up business content? I mean, sure. Be silly, be fun, whatever, but like, it is so different than what’s out there on the other platforms. Do you see LinkedIn as a place where you can kind of stretch this a little bit?
[00:35:21]Viveka Von Rosen: [00:35:21] You always want to be business focused, but yeah, you don’t have to be. Buttoned up, stick up your butt for sure. I mean, I think of our friend, Mikayla Alexis, like she does great video. She does them on a TikTok and then brings them all over into LinkedIn. Like that’s her our CEO, Mario. He’s always, he’s got a LinkedIn video where he’s singing with his kids.
[00:35:42]He’s got, he does a lot with his kids on online or on LinkedIn. He always pulls in. Some kind of like business lesson around it, but I think as long as there’s some kind of business relation to the videos. And quite frankly, just the content that you’re sharing it’s okay. It’s the math tests.
[00:36:03]It’s, the completely, has absolutely nothing to do with your, who you are in your business world type stuff that drives me nuts. And because LinkedIn has got a relatively simple algorithm, when someone, throws up a. A math test or something that’s just completely irrelevant to them, to their business, to LinkedIn.
[00:36:25] And then everyone’s like, this doesn’t belong on LinkedIn. This doesn’t belong on LinkedIn. This doesn’t belong it on LinkedIn. And then it gets even more visibility for more people to say it doesn’t belong on LinkedIn. Then it goes viral and the person goes, I’m going to do more math. Right.
[00:36:39] Grace Duffy: [00:36:39] I just imagined these LinkedIn pitchforks and flames.
[00:36:41] And so on that. What are the best. That’s all, that’s our thing. Talk to us about best practices for video and on LinkedIn, like recommended length, prerecorded versus native versus going live. I know live is not still not available to everyone, but prerecorded and native video is, and like what’s the recommended length of video on LinkedI?. Cause we’re we broadcast the show. It’s an hour long, but I know we’re on YouTube. Like 10 minutes is kind of the ideal, right? That’s a little excessive.
Best Practices For Video On LinkedIn
[00:37:12] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:37:12] And on LinkedIn in like under three minutes we do a lot of training on selling with video. So, what we have learned is if it’s under a minute, it’s going to get 30% more views than anything that’s over a minute.
[00:37:27]Now obviously there are videos. If you’re doing explainer videos, if you’re walking people through how to use your platform or, explainer videos. Obviously they’re going to run a little bit longer, but even if you’re doing interviews, getting testimonials doing a video resume, keeping it as close to a minute as possible as good.
[00:37:49] If you’re doing native video, you’ve got a 10 minute stopping point. Upload a video that’s more than 10 minutes or less than three seconds, but I guess that would be a gift. So make sure that your videos at least three seconds under 10 minutes and then depending on what you’re trying to do with it, try to keep it as close to a minute as possible.
[00:38:10] Pretty much do, as I say, not as I do, cause you’ll notice like every single video I have. How do you know a tip on how to use LinkedIn? And they’re all about three to four minutes. So yeah. Video captions, no,
[00:38:21] Jeff Sieh: [00:38:21] you’re good. It’s video captions.
[00:38:23] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:38:23] Yeah. So again, to, to Grace’s point using a tool like Restream where you can get the captions in there, you can get that nice branding.
[00:38:31]And then if you can download that, three to 10 minutes segment, if you can download it and then re upload it as native video does still tend to get slightly better visibility. It’s not like before, when it was 10 X, like if you share a YouTube link and I uploaded a native video of the exact same content, LinkedIn was going to give you 10 X more visibility on the native content.
[00:38:52]It’s not like that anymore. We, my native videos get about 20 to 30% more views than my, my, a YouTube videos. So. That important, but Hey, anything to give you an edge? I think what’s more important than native or link is. When you’re writing the post that goes along with the video, whether it’s native or a link, you really want to utilize as much of that space as possible, and they just expanded it to 3000 characters from 1200.
[00:39:21] So that’s a mini blog. Yeah, because LinkedIn’s algorithm is focused on dwell time. So as long as, the longer people stay on your posts, the more LinkedIn is going to open it up and show it to more people. And so you want to get people engaged in the content of your post and then with calls to action, watch the video to learn more, watch the video, if you don’t like reading words, whatever.
[00:39:46] But, that combination of getting them to read through the post and then stay the minute or so, and watch the video. That’s going to get you more amplification on your content.
[00:39:56] Jeff Sieh: [00:39:56] So I want to go back and just talk really quick. So that’s what I’ve been doing with this show. If you guys follow my LinkedIn page, that I usually take like a question that I asked Viveka and just take her answer and put it in the title and repurpose that across all platforms.
[00:40:10] But it’s really interesting how well it does on LinkedIn. Like you were saying, it’s about a 20% lift that I have one that I. With Neil Schaffer, he was talking about influencer marketing that just took off. And on that question, I wanted to ask you how important are hashtags to that? Because that one, I use like influencer hash, like influencer marketing hashtag, and it did really well.
[00:40:30] And I’m wondering if it was the hashtag anything to do with it.
Hashtags on LinkedIn
[00:40:33] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:40:33] Yeah, hashtags have a little bit to do with it. Probably more than Neil had something to do, to be honest, he’s got a huge network. So hashtags are important and if you’ve got the creator mode, right, choose your five best hashtags. And then if you can at least pull some of those hashtags into your content, that’s good.
[00:40:53] Something people don’t realize on LinkedIn, the first three hashtags that you use. When you then share the link, not just share it and post it, but when you go back. On the top, right? You get the three dots and you can copy that link. What you will notice is those top three hashtags are also in the link, potentially making that link more find-able, even on Google, and making your content more visible, even on things like Google.
[00:41:20]So make sure that you utilize. Somewhere between three to five hashtags. It doesn’t mean you don’t have to just put them at the bottom. You can work…and I recommend working your hashtags, those top three into your content in your posts somehow. And then we always recommend you want, at least one macro social selling one micro hashtag, LinkedIn selling and then potentially one unique hashtag unique to you or your company.
[00:41:48] Cause it just makes it easier to find that content later for us, it would be something like, hashtag Congreso picks or , and that will also help to make that will help you that will help you to. Gather your content and be able to disseminate it more easily.
[00:42:06] Jeff Sieh: [00:42:06] So like a branded hashtag like hashtag.
[00:42:08] Yeah, exactly. Gotcha. Okay. So I know we’ve gone long and I appreciate you with all the hiccups that were happening with the interwebs and all that stuff. But Viveka, I want to give you enough chance that you can tell people where to find you, your books, your courses all this stuff that Vengreso offers, let us know where they can find you.
[00:42:26] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:42:26] Sure. Sure. So, if you want to find me just Google, LinkedIn expert, and my LinkedIn profile should be near the top. If not the first non-paid ad that comes up, just customize, always customize your invitation. That was, it seems like an hour ago. We talked about that, but always customize your invitation to connect.
[00:42:44] Just let me know that you were on the show with Jeff and Grace and. Obviously I’ll connect with you. If you want to find us on LinkedIn, or if you want to find us just then Vengreso with one S we are not soup. V E N G R E S O, vengreso.com. And if you go to dot com slash resources, we have so many great free resources.
[00:43:04] Now they are very much focused on sellers, on sales. So, but just to understand you’ll probably get something out of it. Also, you will get a really annoying, but very useful pop-up, which is actually a PDF version of our book, which you can get for free or my book. So you will have to pay with your name, your email address and your first child.
[00:43:26] But after that, You will get the PDF version of our book for free or buy the paper version Amazon, as Jeff said, he’s put the links to that below. If you’re on Amazon live don’t buy the first book. I’m sorry, Jeff. Don’t buy LinkedIn marketing an hour a day. It is 10. It is 12 years old and social media years, which is like 2008 in real years.
[00:43:46] So like, don’t buy it. It’s so out of date, but the, but this one I, we published back in April, so it’s mostly up to date. Of course, LinkedIn introduced the video cover stories right after it went to publish.
[00:43:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:43:59] So make sure you guys go and check her out at and Viveka, everywhere. LinkedIn expert. You can find her. She is all across the interwebs. So check her out. She’s amazing to follow. Always gives great advice like today. Amazing advice. A lot of people say, like Gary says, great talk today, guys. Really excellent insight. So thank you, Gary. Thank you for all you guys showing up today. Don’t forget. And I forgot to talk about it.
[00:44:19] I was so excited that Viveka came on the show today that you can actually text us at 9 0 3 2 8 7 9 0 8 8 and get reminded about these live shows. No spam, no nothing. It’s just these reminders when we’re about to go live. And it’s easy to do 903 2 8 7 9 0 8 8. It’s an easy way to get around the pesky algorithms that we have to deal with on social.
[00:44:39] And also do not forget our sponsors number one, don’t forget about this Leap Into Live Streaming Bootcamp by my friends over at Ecamm. And you can always, if you want to check out, he can’t go to socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm, and then go to Leap Into Live, sign up for that. I’m going to be doing it.
[00:44:55] You want it don’t want to miss that. You can heckle me from the audience at LeapIntoLive.com. I’d love to see you guys there. And Grace, you have some amazing stuff as well over a happened in over on Restream.
[00:45:06] Viveka Von Rosen: [00:45:06] That’s
[00:45:06] Grace Duffy: [00:45:06] where he works. Yeah, absolutely. So we’ve got this amazing Restream community on Facebook.
[00:45:10] So just look up restream.community. It’s our group where we everywhere from like beginners to pro live videos. People are there come their network, find out more, learn troubleshoot. I was on there early this morning, just like answering customer questions. So there are real people behind it. You will get your questions answered to join us over there.
[00:45:31] That’s right. And our next show is next Friday, July 30th. 11:00 AM Eastern, 10:00 AM central. And you can find us on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube and Amazon line.
[00:45:43] Jeff Sieh: [00:45:43] And I want to do one final thought from my friend Sabrina. She goes, I am now in love with Viveka. Thank you all for amazing tips and insights on LinkedIn.
[00:45:51] Yes. Viveka is very easy to love, so make sure you follow her everywhere with that. Thank you guys so much. Thank you for staying late for us and through all the hiccups and jumping streams and all that stuff. We will see you guys next time. Bye everybody.