Is it time to move on from Pinterest?

I’ve been using Pinterest since I had a baby beard, but is it time to pack up our boards and start dancing on TikTok?

Does Pinterest still drive traffic like it used to? What about ads? Why are brands allocating so much money to Pinterest advertising?

We got to have a lovely chat with Pinterest expert Kate Ahl on recent changes on Pinterest and how to best use it to grow your brand and business.


Is Pinterest Still Worth It? Insights from Kate Ahl

Hey folks, welcome back to the blog! If you’re a Pinterest enthusiast or just scratching your head wondering how to make Pinterest work for your business, you’re in the right place. Today, we’re breaking down our recent chat with Kate Ahl, the Pinterest wizard behind Simple Pin Media. Grab your coffee, get comfy, and let’s dive into the magic of Pinterest!

Kate Ahl is not just any Pinterest expert; she’s the founder and CEO of Simple Pin Media, a company dedicated to helping businesses harness the power of Pinterest marketing. With years of experience and a passion for Pinterest, Kate has transformed countless businesses by teaching them how to navigate the platform effectively. Whether you’re new to Pinterest or looking to refine your strategy, Kate’s insights are invaluable.

Pinterest 101: Back to the Basics

Is Pinterest Right for Your Business?

Before you dive headfirst into Pinterest, take a moment to think about why you want to use it. Kate hit the nail on the head—Pinterest is like YouTube and Google; it’s a cold traffic source. If you’re looking to add more cold traffic to your business mix, then Pinterest could be your new best friend. 

Next, it’s time to nail those Pinterest images. Don’t just slap something together—give it some love. Set up your profile, and be consistent with your pinning for at least six to nine months. As Kate puts it, jumping into Pinterest can feel like throwing spaghetti at a wall, but thats okay, you’re figuring out your audience and what sticks. While B2C content tends to shine, there’s still room for B2B magic. Who are you targeting? Female entrepreneurs? Marketing pros? Dig into Pinterest and check out the keywords they’re searching for.

Not seeing relevant keywords? Think about what your audience needs to know before they’re ready to buy. Answering questions like “How can AI help my business?” can give you an edge. Pinterest is a goldmine of how-to questions, so if you can answer those, you’re already winning.

The nice thing about Pinterest is, if u can make a good image, it’s pretty easy and let’s be honest, I’m lazy. While it initially requires a bit of a time commitment—it’s still way less demanding compared to the time suck that Instagram marketing can be. Also, you don’t have to talk with people, Yippie!

Pinterest on Mobile

Before we dive into the nitty-gritty of Pinterest strategies, let’s cover THE basic of all basics—optimizing for mobile users. This is crucial because a significant chunk of Pinterest traffic comes from mobile devices. Kate emphasized the importance of checking how your pins look on Pinterest’s mobile app. After reading this, go ahead and see for yourself. Have a friend follow your pin to your website to ensure the experience is seamless. If it’s not, you risk losing potential visitors in a heartbeat.

And here’s a handy tip: I use ConvertBox for pop-ups on my site, but I turn them off for mobile viewers. Nothing makes people bounce faster than struggling to find that little “X” to close a pop-up. You can always tweak your settings later, but for now, it’s better to keep the mobile experience clean and user-friendly. Kate agrees—getting feedback and making sure your mobile strategy is on point is essential for keeping your audience engaged.

Changes in Pinterest Platform

Alrighty let’s jump right into this juicy Pinterest knowledge! Just like my wife on salsa night, Pinterest loves to shake things up now and then. One of the biggest changes Kate highlighted is the shift away from idea pins. Over the past 18 months, Pinterest has streamlined its pin formats, merging video and standard pins into just one pin format. This simplification means that regardless of whether you’re uploading a video or an image, it’s just considered a pin now. The good news? Keywords and image sizes are still the same, so no need to panic. This change helps in maintaining consistency and ensures your content strategy doesn’t get derailed by new updates.

Pinterest Boards and Algorithm

Here’s some Pinterest 101. Boards are the backbone of Pinterest. Kate reminded us that boards are crucial because Pinterest’s algorithm loves them. Here’s the thing though, its like storing your holiday decorations—you can either have them meticulously organized and color-coded, or just shove them in the attic and hope you find them next year! The board name, board description, and the pins within the board are all used by the algorithm to categorize your content. So, don’t skip on this—your boards need some TLC to keep Pinterest happy! This means thoughtful naming and well-crafted descriptions are key to making sure your content gets noticed by the right audience.

Now, about that TLC; Kate suggests revisiting your boards at least once a year. If a board is doing really well, don’t touch it. But if the names are getting stale or your content has fallen out of rank, it’s time for an update. Kate shared how they updated their board names by searching for relevant terms and seeing what the top boards were doing. They left the descriptions and pins the same, only refreshing the names to stay current. It’s like giving your Pinterest a little makeover to keep it fresh and engaging.

Key Takeaway: Don’t let your Pinterest boards become like the junk drawer in your kitchen—everything important ends up there, but no one can ever find anything when they need it.

Board Naming and SEO Strategies

So, speaking of strategic board names, you should know… naming your boards isn’t about being cutesy; it’s about being smart. Kate’s advice? Be specific. Instead of “Fashion,” go for “Spring Fashion for Women.” Less than four words, folks—keep it tight and relevant. Think of it as giving breadcrumbs to Pinterest’s algorithm, leading it straight to your delicious content. The algorithm uses these keywords to understand and rank your content, making your boards discoverable. Also, don’t forget the board description. Fill it with relevant keywords and phrases that potential followers might use to search for content like yours. This strategy not only helps with SEO but also makes your boards more appealing and understandable to users. 

Kate also mentioned two great places to look for keywords: Pinterest’s trends tool and the Pinterest search bar. The trends tool can show you what’s hot in your country, and using the search bar with your keywords can help you find the best terms to use. Look at the guided search bubbles at the top—they can lead you to relevant terms to name/rename your boards effectively.

Another  crucial tip from Kate: if a board isn’t relevant to your business, move it to secret. Your public profile should reflect your brand and keywords to help you rank better. And if a board isn’t serving your business, don’t try to polish it—just make it secret and focus on creating valuable boards. So heres your friendly Reminder to Secret your “Stuff I Like Board” it has the SEO value of a soggy piece of cardboard.

Pinterest Tips for Growing Your Business

Understanding the Pinterest Funnel

Here’s the scoop on the Pinterest funnel. It’s not like Instagram. Kate says to picture Instagram like a bar and Pinterest like a library. Pinterest is where people go to discover and save ideas—they’re in research mode, taking their time to find inspiration. Instagram, on the other hand, is more about immediate engagement and action. You’ve got to nurture both kinds of funnels but remember, Pinterest users take their sweet time. Patience is key! 
Kate breaks it down into three stages. The top of the funnel is curiosity, where users are just discovering your content. The middle is where they start to engage more, recognizing your brand from a pin. And finally, at the bottom of the funnel, after some time, they convert—they might pin something today and come back to buy it months later. You might consider a gentle approach with your calls to action, focusing on building engagement rather than pushing for immediate sales. The purchase arc on Pinterest is long, but it’s worthwhile.

Lead Magnets on Pinterest

Lead magnets are your secret weapons. Whether it’s an ebook or a course, your landing page needs to read a bit like a blog post. People on Pinterest aren’t ready for the hard sell—they want to be wooed. Kate emphasizes that because Pinterest users are often still in the discovery phase, they need to be warmed up. A short form landing page asking for a name and email isn’t enough. Your landing page should provide value and context—why do they need your course or ebook? Explain this in a way that reads more like a blog post to satisfy their curiosity.

Organic vs. Paid Content

Kate advises using both organic pins and paid ads to drive traffic to these detailed landing pages. Even with ads, a well-crafted landing page that converts is essential. Place your top lead magnets on your best-performing Pinterest posts to capture as much interest as possible. Here’s a fun experiment: create the same pin and link it to two different landing pages, pinning them separately. Over three to six months, you’ll gather some juicy data on which type of landing page gets more love. This way, you can make smart, data-driven decisions about what works best for your audience.

You don’t need to wait forever to jump into paid content. Kate recommends doing some organic pinning first to understand what your audience likes. Think of it like getting to know someone before you ask them out on a date—build that rapport with organic pins, and then wow them with your paid ads. Then you can run both organic and paid ads at the same time, using your organic results to inform your paid strategies. This approach lets you optimize your spending and maximize your reach, ensuring you’re hitting the right audience with the right content.

Pinterest Advertising Strategies

When it comes to Pinterest ads, you gotta channel your inner Zen master—patience and understanding are your best friends. Kate explained that Pinterest often gets a raw deal from PPC companies because they don’t quite get it like they do other platforms. But here’s the kicker: if you stick with it and learn to tweak and optimize, the return on ad spend and leads can be pretty sweet. Kate sees Pinterest ads take about two weeks to optimize. Lots of companies tap into the seasonal mojo of Pinterest, running ads from August to November to catch that holiday wave. However, if you want to see the best results, remember Pinterest ads require more time to get rolling, so you might go about it a little differently ;)

Now, here’s something super cool about Pinterest ads—they’ve got this magical long-term visibility. Even after your campaign wraps up, and Pinterest stops boosting it, if folks have saved your pin, it can keep getting shared and seen. It’s like the gift that keeps on giving! And don’t just stick with static or video ads—carousels are making waves too. Remember, if it’s working, don’t touch it. But if it’s not, tweak away until you get the results you want. So, if your ads are converting well, Kate suggests letting them run continuously and just fine-tuning as you go. Remember, patience and persistence pay off, so keep an eye on your return on ad spend and be ready to adjust as needed. If something isn’t working, don’t be afraid to hit pause and reassess.

How to Optimize Pinterest

Let’s dive into the latest strategies and trends to make sure your Pinterest is a well-oiled machine. Here’s what you need to know:

Importance of SEO and Keywords

Kate really drove home that SEO should be your best buddy in your Pinterest strategy. Too many marketers are all about the Instagram and TikTok life, treating Pinterest like the forgotten middle child. This leads to sloppy pin descriptions and random board placements. But here’s the thing—Kate pointed out that the first board you pin to is a big deal. It’s like prime real estate, and you’ve gotta treat it right. She stressed the importance of sticking with keyword trends and noted that while video content had seen success, its performance has been a little “meh” lately. For most of us, good old standard pins are where it’s at. Kate’s advice? Get killer at crafting eye-catching images and nailing that SEO to build up awareness and interest in your stuff.

And here’s a pro tip: be cautious with AI-generated descriptions. It will often add hashtags, but hashtags are not relevant on Pinterest. In fact, they can break the SEO value because Pinterest looks at the keyword itself. If you get hashtags from AI, just remove them. Focus on clear, keyword-rich descriptions to keep your pins optimized and discoverable.

Adapting Content for Seasonal Trends

Kate shared some top-notch Pinterest strategies, especially for those rocking a lot of evergreen content. She highlighted the brilliance of taking an evergreen image and giving it a seasonal or event-specific twist. It’s all about making your content relevant to what’s happening right now. But hold up, Kate also warned against going overboard with image updates—just shifting a line or a bubble won’t cut it. Instead, really get creative with those updates to keep them fresh and engaging. The trick is to create new content for your website regularly, ideally once a week, and to revisit and refresh older content with updated images. This keeps your pins lively and engaging for your audience.

The Role of Text on Pins

Now, let’s talk text on pins. Kate explained that no text works mainly in niches like home decor and fashion, where people just want to see the darn thing. However, for other niches like food or digital products, text is crucial for conveying the message. Pinterest’s algorithms are reading that text, especially for seasonal or event-based content like spring, Easter, or graduation. Kate suggests keeping it short and sweet—think a bold phrase or just a few words to spark curiosity without giving away too much.

Are Group Boards Done?

Are they still worth it? Kate gave us the lowdown. They’re not as effective as they used to be, but they might not be completely useless. If you’re part of a high-quality, active group board, it can still drive traffic. Just don’t rely solely on them. Focus on building strong, individual boards that showcase your brand. Kate stressed the importance of being selective with group boards and ensuring they align with your brand’s goals.

Using Pinterest Scheduling Tools

When it comes to third -party Pinterest scheduling, both me and Kate swear by Tailwind. Some people question the need for scheduling tools, but Kate asks, if you don’t use one, will you remember to pin regularly? The answer is usually no. Tailwind is fantastic because it lets us schedule pins beyond Pinterest’s native 30-day limit, which Kate finds clunky.

Video Content on Pinterest

Kate mentioned that video is pretty inconsistent on Pinterest right now, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have its place. Videos are fantastic for building awareness and showcasing your personality. Plus, short video content is booming on every other platform. And what’s that I always say? Repurpose, repurpose, repurpose. And don’t forget, strip out those hashtags because they can mess with your SEO—Pinterest prefers clean, keyword-rich descriptions.

When it comes to podcasts, people often use different players, so Kate suggests linking them back to your website rather than directly to a player to drive meaningful traffic. Interestingly, she noted that Pinterest to YouTube conversions work quite well, so that’s another route you can explore. Keep experimenting with different types of pins, and play around with your descriptions and posting times. The key is to stay flexible and continually learn what works best for your brand.

Future Direction for Pinterest

So, what’s the future looking like for Pinterest? Kate’s got some thoughts, and they’re pretty exciting! With the new CEO at the helm, e-commerce is set to be a major focus. Pinterest is finally realizing they’re not TikTok or Instagram—and thank goodness for that! Remember the frustration with idea pins that didn’t link out? Yeah, that’s not the Pinterest we know and love. Users expect to click on a pin and head straight to a website. It’s like the magic portal to all the good stuff.

Now, Pinterest is getting back to its roots and doubling down on what makes it unique. They’re aiming to make it easier for users to discover and buy products with shop integrations and the potential return of short-form content with actual links. Kate doesn’t think Pinterest will become an on-platform checkout site, but hey, things can change fast in the tech world. She’s betting on Pinterest sticking to its strength—driving traffic to your website for the final purchase.

And I couldn’t agree more. E-commerce and Pinterest go together like peanut butter and jelly. Pinterest shines as a platform for discovery and shopping. The future looks bright, and I can’t wait to see how Pinterest continues to innovate!

Pinterest is Still Worth It: Final Thoughts

So, is Pinterest still worth it? Absolutely. But it’s not a quick win. Evaluate your audience, get those boards in shape, and pin consistently for six to nine months. It’s an investment, but one that pays off if you play it smart.

That’s a wrap for today, folks. Dive into Pinterest, give it the attention it deserves, and watch your business grow. For more tips and tricks, don’t forget to check out Simple Pin Media and the Simple Pin Podcast. Until next time, happy pinning!

Resources and Links


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not.


[00:00:03] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more. All

[00:00:10] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever found yourself questioning how to leverage Pinterest to boost your business? Maybe you tried Pinterest only to quit because it wasn’t giving you the results you were looking for. Or maybe you’re thinking, it’s just not a fit for my brand or services. If you thought those questions before, then today’s show is going to be perfect for you.

[00:00:30] Today we are delighted to welcome a guest whose whole business revolves around Pinterest. She’s an expert in Pinterest marketing who turned her passion for helping businesses into the business and podcast that is Simple Pin Media. Kate Aul is going to be sharing her top strategies for mastering Pinterest.

[00:00:46] Marketing, so sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Kate, how are you doing today?

[00:00:55] Kate Ahl: I am great. And I’m just so impressed by how you repurpose everything in such like an efficient way. It is incredible. Like I’m thinking like podcasts, all these other lives. So I’m here for it. I

[00:01:07] Jeff Sieh: Good. Yeah, and we will, we will, I will repurpose your content, I know, so much. Connor knows that I do that. I’ve got my daughter, Abby, now, helping me, do all the stuff, so it’s so nice to have her on board with us. So. yeah, let’s just dive in. Let’s just get started. we’ve got some, like I mentioned in the, in the opener, Kate is the owner and CEO of SimplePenMedia, which is a, if you have any questions about Pinterest, she’s got a podcast.

[00:01:32] She has got a blog. I mean, there’s so much great stuff. If you’re like, I don’t, this, this thing changed since the last time I was on it. Kate has probably covered it in her podcast or on her show, so make sure to check that out. But we’re gonna dive right into this right away. And so Gary even has a question that I’m just gonna pull up, and we’re gonna rock with this one.

[00:01:51] should we still categorize posts to different boards? Are boards still a thing on Pinterest?

[00:01:56] Kate Ahl: Boards are definitely a thing. Yeah, because the, that’s how the algorithm works. So when you take the board name, the board description, and the pins that are in the board, the algorithm looks and goes, oh, this is about this particular category. So that’s why boards are still really, really relevant on Pinterest.

[00:02:14] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Okay, so that’s great. Keep the, keep the questions coming because I told Connor at the beginning because he has a bunch of questions and I was like, it’s great because I have been on it for so long. I take things for granted. but Kate, I want to ask this first question. What has changed the most on the Pinterest platform in the last year?

[00:02:33] Kate Ahl: well, I guess I would say the biggest change has been they’ve moved away from idea pins. It’s been a little bit longer, like 18 months. They’ve completely moved that away and they’ve gone to that simplified pin format. So whenever you upload a pin to Pinterest, whether it’s a video or whether it’s a standard pin, it’s just a pin now.

[00:02:50] So that’s been something that Pinterest has tried to categorize pins in a different way, like video, idea, standard, and now they’re just merging it all into one. But I would say unlike the other platforms, there’s a lot of things that have stayed the same. Like keywords are the same and the size of images are still the same.

[00:03:08] So I would say that’s probably the format is probably the biggest change that I see.

[00:03:12] Jeff Sieh: I’m gonna dive on that. But first, I’m so excited that Kate was here. I forgot to talk about our sponsor of the show, which is Ecamm. You can find out more about them by going to ecamm. com forward slash Jeff. Save 15 percent on, your first purchase by using the code JEFF15. And we’re gonna talk a little bit more about that later, but, some of the cool stuff they’ve got going on.

[00:03:28] But I just, I, I’m, once again, Pinterest, I’m all in, and I am excited. So, you talk a lot on, like, a recent blog post, you talk about the Pinterest funnel. So So, can you talk about what you mean by the Pinterest funnel and how it kind of uses both organic and paid? Because that can be a little bit confusing.

[00:03:50] Kate Ahl: Yeah, so the Pinterest funnel is essentially like at the top it’s just awareness, but people becoming aware of who you are because Pinterest users, they’re cold to you. They don’t really care about you. They’re not really interested in your brand like they are on Instagram. Like I joke that. So, yeah. Yeah.

[00:04:06] Instagram is a bar. Pinterest is a library. Like people walk in, they’re really eager to find whatever they’re looking for. They don’t want people to talk to them, but they are curious. So that top of funnel is kind of like their curiosity. The middle part is, okay, I’m kind of ready to learn more. Like maybe if I’ve seen your pin and I know your brand, I’m going to engage with you a little bit more.

[00:04:27] I’m going to learn more. And then there’s that conversion piece at the bottom where people actually, maybe they’ve pinned something like, Three months before they go back to their board and they’re like, okay, now I’m going to purchase. But that purchase arc is a really long time. Like it takes people in Pinterest.

[00:04:44] Like they’re going to pin 20 different pillows before they actually choose to buy a pillow. So we want to be aware of all three stages and how people interact with your pin. You can’t just assume, Oh, I’m going to put up a checkout link or like a link to, I want you to buy something. People are like, Oh, that’s so intrusive.

[00:05:01] Like I’m not ready. So that’s how we want to be aware of kind of hitting all three parts of the funnel.

[00:05:06] Conor Brown: so my Pinterest journey, you know, I, I did it for a while, I stopped, it was just a lot other things coming, but I do want to get back into it. just because, you Not only has there been a lot of talk, I do think that for what I’m doing, it’s a very, very appealing place to create content and post content.

[00:05:24] But right now, if I was to get back in, or if marketers are already on Pinterest and looking to double down, Kate, what are some current trends you’re seeing in Pinterest marketing that the marketers should be aware of? I know video pins have been a thing for a while, but we’re such a huge emphasis on short form content across.

[00:05:43] The interweb. So Pinterest is of course, diving into that as well, but also SEO, you know, we think of it a lot from a Google perspective, but Pinterest is, is right there too. So what are some current trends on Pinterest that we really need to be aware of?

[00:05:57] Kate Ahl: Well, I would say SEO is probably number one. Like a lot of people, I would say in their whole marketing, if they’re right, if they’re creating content, whether it’s like short form video, they first think of Instagram or they think of TikTok and Pinterest is kind of this afterthought. And so what I see people doing is I see them just, Kind of like, Oh, I’ll, I’ll throw it a bone.

[00:06:16] Right. And then they don’t really think about their descriptions. They don’t think about where they’re putting their pin. You know, we talked about boards a minute ago and that first pin that goes onto the platform, the board that it goes onto that holds the most weight. And I find that people just don’t really think about that.

[00:06:32] So staying with that trend of keywords. And I would say video is really weird right now. So on some accounts that we have, it’s going great. But on the majority of accounts, it’s not going that well. It’s had a really big shift. So I would say when you see that happening, if you feel like video was this trend for a while and now it’s kind of pulling back, go back to the standard pin and really get good at that pin.

[00:06:55] That’s another place where I think people just kind of afterthought their Pinterest marketing. When you really get into using that image as your awareness builder, as your kind of. Middle of the funnel like this, Hey, get people curious about your product. That’s what I would say works really, really well, and that’s what I’m seeing is.

[00:07:15] Get really good at your images, get really good at SEO. And when you continue to do that over time, it’s going to work.

[00:07:22] Jeff Sieh: I want to go back to, you mentioned pillows, you know, you have to, you’re kind of the journey in the funnel. They have to see all the different kind of pillows before they decide to buy or they’re going to pin a bunch of different kind of ones. So we, in our mastermind, we were just talking about this, like, we’re all working on our lead magnets, right?

[00:07:38] We’re putting lead magnets, and before I’ve had really great success of putting lead magnets over on Pinterest. Because people all say like, hey, look at my toolbox, you can get all this stuff. How does that, like if somebody wants to do a lead magnet and who aren’t like selling a physical product? Because a lot of us as marketers, we’re selling informational products or, or something like that.

[00:07:57] How does that work on Pinterest? Has that changed with the kind of the funnel thought that you were kind of leading us down there? Is, should we just skip that and go pay for Pinterest ads? Or should we kind of do both for a lead magnet? What is your suggestions?

[00:08:10] Kate Ahl: Well, I would say both number one, but I would also say people, because they are still cold, they need to be warmed up. So I see a lot of people leading their lead magnet to a very short form page. It might just be like, here is your ebook on XYZ, right? Give me your name, blah, blah, blah, right there. I don’t think that’s enough to get people to buy.

[00:08:31] Like it’s a little more shocking. So if you are building, if you’re sending people to a landing page where you want them to buy something, it has to almost read like a blog post because people are curious. They’re like, why do I need this? Why do I need your course on XYZ or your ebook or whatever it is?

[00:08:49] So I don’t find a lot of success. Outside of Pinterest ads. And even with Pinterest ads, you still have to have a great page that converts, right? So when you lead to it, you can do blog posts and let’s say you have like one lead magnet. That’s just like amazing. I would say whatever your top Pinterest posts are, put it there, right?

[00:09:09] Like kind of put it everywhere where you can see that entry point, where people get to learn more. But a short form landing page, it just doesn’t convert very well.

[00:09:17] Jeff Sieh: That is great to know, because I know a lot of people have talked about that, and we need to, you know, they want to know how to put it in, and they think they can just go to like, you know, that, that quick conversion, or that, that quick sign up convert kit form that just has their name and their email, and that’s not working.

[00:09:32] They need to know the context behind it. So, that’s really great.

[00:09:36] Conor Brown: You know, Gary had asked that great question about should we keep categorizing posts to boards and, and Abby kind of had a follow up to this, she says, so are there strategies for board names that the algorithm likes? Is it totally an SEO play? Is it being more, you know, less, I guess you could say, markety, right?

[00:09:54] And more specific so the algorithm kind of knows that? Is there any strategies for that?

[00:09:58] Kate Ahl: Yeah, really boring. Like that’s kind of the best way to say it. Like a lot of, when Pinterest started, people loved to use their boards as this way to express themselves because people would visit the profile. But now that we’ve merged along into this SEO value, it’s very specific and less than four words.

[00:10:17] So you don’t want to just say like women’s fashion. You would say women’s spring fashion because then the algorithm knows like, Oh, this is specifically about spring. So if Suzy, our resident pinner, she is putting into the search bar, women’s spring fashion, Pinterest is going to look all over the platform to say, okay, where can I find that content?

[00:10:38] And they’re using these breadcrumbs of these keywords to get there. And so if you have very broad names, that’s not serving you like recipes. You want to have it be very specific, whether it’s vegan breakfast recipes or Easy breakfast recipes. And if you’re looking for where to find those keywords, Pinterest is the best place.

[00:10:57] That search bar at the top will give you all the clues that you need.

[00:11:00] Conor Brown: So a follow up to that then is spring fashion, saying that that’s a very timely sort of thing, right? You could probably be creating content throughout the year, but it not, might not be being searched throughout the year. Does the algorithm have any impact on how long a board has been there? Like, will it favor a long board that you’ve been posting to for a couple years over something you just put up because you know, Oh, people are going to start searching for, for spring terms?

[00:11:28] Kate Ahl: That’s really interesting. Like I don’t have any data to prove either way, but cause I’ve seen both. Like I’ve seen boards that are people’s personal boards. Get picked up on Google, right? And they might not have a pin to it for like a couple of years, but then we see other people’s content that does really well on a really active board.

[00:11:47] So I think it’s all in the name, all in the like, have people saved it? That was a clue that we don’t really have anymore. You could see how many times it was like repinned, which we don’t use that word anymore, but that would gain in popularity. Kind of like you see on Google, like the more engagement, the more relevant.

[00:12:04] but they don’t really give us a lot of data on that. Like. I wish they did. They don’t give it to us.

[00:12:11] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. this is, so, this is, what Dustin said. He goes, interesting, he says he sees a huge conversion on lead magnet pages, short landing page, 50 percent on average. Dustin, I would love for you, wherever you’re, I think you’re on YouTube, to drop that, your landing page in there. I would like to look at your landing page.

[00:12:27] I’m sure it’s for Magi. I would love to see it. And he says he expects, different conversion rates would be vastly different based on user intent. So, that’s

[00:12:35] Kate Ahl: And can I address that really quickly, user intent? Because I think, you know, like Jeff, I’ve always looked to you as like, where men fit on Pinterest, right? Like you’re kind of one of the male figures that’s talking about it, right? But I think it’s very important to say that majority of the audience is is women.

[00:12:55] And these women that you’re targeting might need a longer page. Some might need a shorter page. So one really cool test would be to have the short and the long, and then create the same pin and then just start pinning it, but to different pages. Right. And over time, like three to six months, you could get some pretty good data on what converts for you.

[00:13:15] And that’s what I tell people is like, you want to look at your data and what really works for you. Like Dustin, if a short page works great on Pinterest. Keep doing it.

[00:13:24] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, because I bet it’s advertising, Magi, and AI is super popular right now. People are wanting to learn how to use it, and so I’m wondering if that’s why they, because they already kind of know what AI is. And anyway, it’s just interesting. This is what I love about having a community that joins in and chimes in, because it’s really, really fun to see what’s working.

[00:13:42] we’ve got some other great questions. I want to pull this up from Pat. She says, I find that group boards are still helping us. What is the current, trend with group boards? I heard group boards were on the way out. So I’m, what do you think, Kate? What have you,

[00:13:55] Kate Ahl: oh, I a hundred percent agree. Like I would say, for a, for a lot of our clients, there’s a few that might work well if they have a specific name, if they have a low number of contributors and the content on there is pretty good. But for the most part, they’re kind of like, I would say, especially if you have a group board.

[00:14:16] That you don’t have a mirroring personal board because then that’s taking all your like SEO energy, if you will, like and putting it towards the group board when you don’t have it like your content could probably fit really well on a board that’s named. Does that make sense? I feel like I’m not explaining it very well.

[00:14:33] But I think that’s the track that people get into is they think group boards are going to do really well for them and then they don’t. So I know Tailwind, you can go in and you can look at group boards and how they do. You can, Pinterest analytics is much better than it was a couple of years ago. Maybe that’s the thing they’ve gotten better at, their analytics, right?

[00:14:50] So, I would say, look at that, but I’m not a fan of group boards.

[00:14:54] Conor Brown: Yeah. I haven’t used them in a long time, in a long time. So that’s, that’s kind of where I’m at too. So, Jeff, I think we need to help Dustin here

[00:15:03] Jeff Sieh: I know I saw that question too. So I’m trying to, I hit the wrong button. So let me, let me, let

[00:15:07] Conor Brown: No, I got it. I can, I can read it too. well, first off Dustin, I just activated my Magi account and it’s awesome. I love the Facebook community too. it’s so much fun, but he asks, I’m starting from scratch with my business Pinterest account, feels like I don’t stand a chance, talk me off the ledge. So Kate, what would you say?

[00:15:25] He’s, you know, AI focused, that sort of, of thing. But just starting out, like, like, how’s he going to get going?

[00:15:32] Kate Ahl: Yeah, well, I always tell anyone when you’re getting going, you’re throwing a spaghetti on a wall for at least six months, right? Like you’re trying to figure out who your audience is. So if I’m talking about something with AI and B2B, I will say that Business to consumer always does better on Pinterest.

[00:15:49] It has forever, but I don’t think there’s still space for business to business. So thinking about who you’re targeting, like, are you targeting, a female like business entrepreneurial audience or a marketing person or something like that? Go onto Pinterest and look at the keywords that people are searching for your particular product.

[00:16:07] If something’s not coming up, it means there’s not a lot of high So that’s something to consider too. And maybe even backing up and thinking about, okay, what do people need to know before they’re going to enter into buying my product? Right? So it’s, where’s the curiosity? Where’s, where are the searches where people are saying like, how can AI help my business?

[00:16:30] There’s a lot of how questions that come up on Pinterest. So I feel like if you can answer those, That’s where you’re going to be a step ahead.

[00:16:37] Jeff Sieh: So, this is a great question from Abby, and I know why she’s doing this, because she wants to do it to my stuff. She goes, how, how often should I go in and refresh Pinterest boards and rearrange some things?

[00:16:48] Kate Ahl: Oh, I love this. And Abby, I love that you’re here. So great. So I would say we go in and refresh ours. Well, actually we just did it and we probably waited a little bit too long. It had been about three years. I would say refresh them probably once a year. But if a board is doing really well for you, don’t touch it.

[00:17:09] It’s more, you want to look at a board, like our names were kind of stale. And so what we did is we searched Pinterest marketing or Pinterest marketing like bloggers or whatever. And we realized some of our stuff had fallen out of rank, if you will. And so we clicked on some of those pins and we looked at the boards that they were kind of living on.

[00:17:28] And that gave us some clues. As to how we needed to update our board names. So that’s all we did. We updated our board names. We left our board descriptions the same, left the pins in there. Like that was it. So I would just say refresh board names. If you feel like something, maybe there’s like new terminology or something like that.

[00:17:47] Jeff Sieh: Let’s talk about that a little bit, because I think that’s a fundamental part that a lot of businesses and people who first start getting on skip over. Because you’ll see stuff like a board that says, Stuff I Like, which has no SEO value. At all. So, talk a little bit about like, board names and descriptions and, and that’s SEO.

[00:18:06] It’s like what you would look at for in Yoast on your WordPress blog or something. So, maybe explain that.

[00:18:11] Kate Ahl: Okay. So there’s two places you can go to look for keywords that you want to use. One is the trends tool that Pinterest has. That’s trends. pinterest. com and you can look, maybe your home country isn’t the U. S. or even Canada. Maybe it’s another country. You can look at keywords that are ranking for your country.

[00:18:29] There’s like 15 listed or something like that. The other place is. The Pinterest search bar, right? So putting in your keywords that you want to use. And if you’re going to name a board, maybe you’re going to move it from stuff I like. The important thing is that you want to turn that board into like a specific silo, if you will.

[00:18:49] So going and looking at, well, I’ll let me back up. If your stuff you like is not your business content, move it to secret. Like don’t leave it on your public profile because we, what we’ve seen is that if the whole profile reflects like a certain brand or a certain keyword, or it’s all like a themed, that helps you, right?

[00:19:11] So if you’re wanting to rename something, go to the search bar, look through, and then there’s these like guided search bubbles at the top and they’re colored and all these kinds of things. You can also take clues from that. You can keep clicking on those and kind of go down the rabbit hole. Maybe use some of those terms and rename your board that way.

[00:19:30] But I would say like, don’t try to turn. An ugly board, if you will, into like a board that actually serves you, just move it to secret. Oh,

[00:19:37] Conor Brown: Yeah, that’s a great tip. had mentioned when you were going through to,refresh some boards that you realized you had fallen off for a couple of searches that you wanted to, to, to rank for. When I do that for SEO and I’m looking to see if I’m in the top five or if I got a featured snippet, I do it a very, very scientific way.

[00:19:56] I open an incognito browser and I type in the keyword that I want to search for and see if I’m up there. With Pinterest. You know, does, does that matter or can I just search for it on my own account that I’m trying to rank for and it should pop up right there? Does it have any impact on, on the algorithm knowing it’s who you are searching for?

[00:20:16] Kate Ahl: That is a great question. And I’ll be honest, I have no idea. I would say like, we have searched, like we’ve, I don’t, I don’t know how to say this in like a way that’s like nice, but I will say Pinterest isn’t that smart yet. Like, and we haven’t seen a lot of indicators that show that they’re as advanced in their search as Google.

[00:20:34] Like they might track like time on site. That’s going to be a big one too, is that if they know that people are bouncing away from a pin that tells them that there’s not really relevant content. That people are finding. Like we do, we have heard, I don’t think there’s a lot of like literature out there, but we’ve heard that kind of through the Rumor Channel that they do consider that because when you’re on Pinterest and you’re using the app, you’re still in the in app browser, so they can gather a lot of data.

[00:21:02] But as far as like you going and searching, I don’t, I haven’t seen that, but I don’t, I don’t know.

[00:21:08] Conor Brown: Yeah, but that’s good to know because when, you know, I hear SEO, I’m going to take all my knowledge that I have from organic and, and search, Google, those things and kind of apply it. But it’s important to know that it’s not one to one, you know, your principles are the same. Maybe some of your tactics need to be a little bit different.

[00:21:25] Kate Ahl: Well, and I think the one thing you can take from Google that you know is that, it’s so variable, right? Like I was at a conference a couple of weeks ago with creators and they were talking, they were having this round table kind of discussion about their frustrations with Google. And they were like, what works for one doesn’t work for the other.

[00:21:42] This one woman was like, I deleted 10 posts and my traffic went up like crazy the next day. And somebody is like, I deleted 10 and my traffic tanked. So I think it’s that same idea with Pinterest is that there’s certain things that will work for one account that won’t work for another because there’s so many different variables whereas keywords is a big part of it and what the search volume is for those keywords.

[00:22:06] And I mean, I’ve seen some tools come out lately, I kind of don’t trust them, but that will tell you where your keyword ranking is on Pinterest. I’m real, I’m real side eyeing that. I, I don’t know. So, I think people have been trying to build those for years. I remember, like, people at conferences would be like, Is there a keyword tool for Pinterest like SEO?

[00:22:27] And I’m like, No. And they’re like, I’m going to build one. And then they never did, right? Because there’s some way that it’s, it’s difficult.

[00:22:33] Jeff Sieh: So, I, on that note of third party apps, be very, very careful. of what you, because we, back in the day, we saw people get, like, booted off of Pinterest because they were using not authorized third party apps. So, if it’s asking you to use your logon information, that’s scary. Use ones that are approved.

[00:22:51] And Pinterest even has a list somewhere of all their approved partners. What were you going to say, Kate? I’m

[00:22:54] Kate Ahl: Yes, I was, I, somebody asked me this the other day I was having a, I actually was having a conversation with Susan at Tailwind and there’s two things to be aware of. There are companies that can get the Pinterest API and there’s companies that are Pinterest partners. The ones that are Pinterest partners have the API too, but they’ve been approved by Pinterest.

[00:23:14] We’ve seen companies get the API and abuse it, right? And they’re, they’re shut down, right? So I think. I’m seeing a little bit come up with some companies using the API, but I’m a little skeptical of that. So just know that those are the two distinguishers when it comes to third parties.

[00:23:31] Jeff Sieh: In fact, they reach out to me and want me to try their tool or stuff,

[00:23:35] Kate Ahl: pretty sure it’s the same one.

[00:23:36] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so I’d like it’s only approved partners for me I’m not gonna mess with stuff that that because they’re not I’ve seen them go and come and stick not stick around and it’s just Not worth messing with your account with it’s just not especially if you’ve got any sort of following on there on that note, I want to talk about a little bit about like what you see The role of Pinterest evolving in kind of the broader digital marketing landscape because there were some recent things that come out that have come out.

[00:24:00] We talked about earlier before we started the show about the new CEO. We’ve also got, they made, they had something coming out about they have increased their monthly users but that’s mostly in Europe, not in Asia. the United States. So how do you think, you know, I guess put on your, your, your wizard cap and like, where do you think this is moving to, compared to all the other social networks?

[00:24:23] Kate Ahl: Yeah. I would say a big part of it is going to be e commerce because the new CEO is heavily focused on e commerce and I think they are going in the right direction. In the sense that they realize that they are different than the rest. And I think when we had like 2020 we saw the rise of traffic on Pinterest and the rise of users, they tried to be like TikTok and Instagram with idea pins, right?

[00:24:48] And they didn’t link out. And there was this huge frustration with users where it was like, Pinterest like experience is I click on the pin and I go to the website, right? And then there’s that frustration. I think that they’re realizing their advantage of being different. And I think there’s two ways that they’re kind of leaning into that.

[00:25:05] One is with the e commerce piece being like, okay, if we are where people discover things. We also want to help them buy things. We want to give shop integrations. We want to do all of these things. And then we, we want to bring back the ability for people to do short form content, but it has a link. So I guess I would say, I see Pinterest.

[00:25:28] I don’t, well, we’ve been talking about this forever. I don’t think they’re going to be a checkout Like platform. I don’t think they’re going to have on platform checkout. I still think they’re going to have people go to your website to check out. I could be wrong. They could do it tomorrow and all of a sudden check out.

[00:25:45] But that’s what I think.

[00:25:46] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I think e commerce has been, I think, a perfect partner for Pinterest for a long time. They’ve done great things and then they have screwed it up and it, you know, it’s, you know, it feels like you’re going back, backwards. So, yeah, I think e commerce is going to be huge. I remember when it used to really integrate really, really well with Spotify, not Spotify, Shopify, and it was just amazing.

[00:26:04] That’s why I started a Shopify store, just to play

[00:26:06] Kate Ahl: Yeah. Me too.

[00:26:08] Jeff Sieh: and then they kind of went wonky with it and I’m like, okay, you know, so

[00:26:11] Kate Ahl: I know it’s true.


[00:26:13] Jeff Sieh: before we go on to the next section, I want to do a shout out once again to our sponsors, Ecamm. By the way, they have the Creator Camp coming up, and you can find out more about that at ecamm.

[00:26:21] com forward slash camp. Connor’s going to be there. I’m going to be there doing a, a, a session with our friend Ian Anderson Gray, who is in the audience. So you can find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash camp. The thing is, they only have seven tickets left. They limit it to a hundred, so seven tickets left, but I’ve got you covered because you could win a chance to create a camp by just going to my, actually if you go to jeffsieh.

[00:26:44] com forward slash win, you can actually enter to win a free ticket if you are so lucky, and there’s ways to get, I’m going to give you a, in my emails, you get special bonus codes, all sorts of things, so go to jeffsieh. com forward slash win to check that out. So, Let’s dive in. This is a, so Pat Mills, before we go into the next section of this, she goes, Once I could get the whole team improving SEO across the board for the business side, it is growing the Pinterest.

[00:27:13] Pinterest is second after Google for people finding the company and purchasing. It does. It drives traffic. It just does. It takes a while. But it’s like a snowball, is the way I’ve always said it.

[00:27:23] Kate Ahl: Yep.


[00:27:24] Jeff Sieh: let’s, this next section, because this is really fascinating for a lot of people. Organic versus paid. We all want a shortcut.

[00:27:31] We all want to get there easier and, and you know, do you have time or do you have money? What do you want to, what do you want to use? so, how can businesses effectively integrate both organic and paid content on Pinterest? Mm

[00:27:45] Kate Ahl: Yeah, so I would say the old thought was that you needed to wait. You needed to do only organic before you went into paid, but now you can jump into paid right away. I would say leveraging both is how, let me add a caveat to that. I would say those who jump into paid right away without knowing their Pinterest audience are doing a disservice.

[00:28:07] So if you do the three months of organic and you start to figure out like who your audience is, what they’re clicking on, what they like, then the great thing is you can run paid ads off of what you know. I, I mean, that’s the way that I would do it. That’s the way I’ve always done it is I did a lot of organic first before I jumped into paid.

[00:28:25] Conor Brown: If you jump into paid, I think that you have to be willing to burn some cash. And I’m not willing to do that. So I would rather do some organic first. when we compare it to other, you know, paid advertising opportunities on other platforms? You know, I know that the user intent and even like the longevity of pins and people coming and they’re very specifically searching for a topic. That’s very beneficial from an advertising perspective. But what do you think Pinterest has that might be much more beneficial to marketers than maybe a Facebook meta Twitter ads?

[00:28:57] I don’t know if anyone still uses it, but

[00:29:01] Kate Ahl: would say, I mean, that’s pretty tough. I think Pinterest is at a disadvantage and that’s what we know from talking to PPC companies is that Pinterest is last on their list. And it’s because they don’t understand it. So I would say Facebook or meta ads or whatever, they optimize very quickly. Whereas Pinterest ads take about two weeks to optimize.

[00:29:25] So you are kind of burning those two weeks, which feels frustrating, but what we find is that return on ad spend and leads, the longer you like kind of adjust and understand your ad, the same thing happens or, you know, it happens organically with the snowball. The same thing can happen with the paid ads, especially if you’re running them at the right time.

[00:29:45] So we see a lot of companies who leverage the seasonality of Pinterest and they’ll only run their ads from, say. August to November, because they’re trying to optimize for holiday traffic. And so I think that is really. You have to go into Pinterest ads with a totally different frame of mind. You can’t take what you know about Facebook or Instagram and apply that to Pinterest.

[00:30:06] And that’s what we see is people’s biggest frustration is they go, it doesn’t work like Facebook or I don’t understand it. And so a lot of people will quit. They’ll just be like, it’s not for me. But I think the longer you stay in it, the more you learn, the more you can optimize.

[00:30:20] Jeff Sieh: So, this used to be true, and I don’t know if it is anymore, the big, the big push that they said to use Pinterest ads for is because of, like, you pay for somebody to click on it and save it to your board, and then after your campaign’s over, if somebody else saves it from their board, you kind of get that cycle.

[00:30:39] Is that still true? Is that still something that is a benefit of using Pinterest ads?

[00:30:44] Kate Ahl: Yeah, there’s, you can still do that or you can put an ad out there and turn it on and turn it off so that like it doesn’t live out there anymore. Now, I don’t know if someone has saved it, if it still lives from there, if you’re turning them on and off. I can’t remember how that works, but if there’s ones that like you can promote a pin or you can do a Pinterest ad.

[00:31:04] Those are two very different things. Like you’ll see on Pinterest, it’ll say promote. I have played around with that tons of times. Like I, it’s like, you can turn it on and turn it off. I would say for those, there’s a greater chance that people, when they, you know, save it, it’s going to keep living out there.

[00:31:19] But I can’t remember what happens with those ones that you turn on and turn off. I would assume they stay.

[00:31:24] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that was one of the benefits of Pinterest is like you, you have that campaign. If somebody, if you get a bunch of people pinning it and like, then they, you know, because they do, they save it to their boards and then they’ll revisit it like you mentioned before. And then, you know, it’s kind of that awareness and then they’ll buy.

[00:31:38] You, it’s kind of a, and if somebody pins from their board, you kind of get that, you know, kind of snowball effect. So that’s very, very cool. this is a great question from Pat. She says, how long should you run an ad to get the most from it? So you mentioned it takes about two weeks, but how long?

[00:31:52] Should you run it

[00:31:53] Kate Ahl: You know, you can let it run for a long time. We have people who, they’re just letting theirs run continuously in the background because it is converting for them. So I would say we have some people who run ’em for three months, some people who run them for six, and some who just continue to run them. So if it’s a holiday, obviously you have the times stop there.

[00:32:13] If it’s not converting for you, I would turn it off.the woman that I talked to last week, she actually worked with Pinterest, which here’s a caveat. If Pinterest emails you and they’re like, I want to help you set up a campaign. They want you to spend a lot of money. And this, this woman had worked with Pinterest to set it up.

[00:32:30] And I will say we haven’t had the greatest experience with Pinterest ad reps. but this one actually did a really good job and she was spending a thousand dollars a month and making upwards of like two to three $5,000 a month, but she ended up going through like some traumatic thing in her family.

[00:32:46] She wanted, she dropped it down to like $15 a month and it was still converting for her. She was making like $500 a month off of that. So I guess I would say like the biggest thing you wanna look at is, is it converting for you? Is it return on ad spend? Really good now, are you getting the leads that you want?

[00:33:01] You can let it run forever.

[00:33:03] Jeff Sieh: That’s great. I Wanna talk about, and this is a, a question from Ian. He’s talked about, he came in late, so no gold star for Ian.

[00:33:12] But he says, is it worth posting my short vertical videos who have been, you know, taken from my podcast using Opus Clip? Is it worth posting those to Pinterest? Would I link to the full episode or is it not worth it? Because I was listening to Agora Pulse’s podcast and they had a Pinterest expert on, and she thought that in her experience, videos were for awareness.

[00:33:31] Images were for clicks. Would you agree with that? And if so, is it worth re, I mean, you have a podcast and a video and Video on YouTube. Do you repurpose those things to Pinterest?

[00:33:41] Kate Ahl: we’ll repurpose some short form that I do for Instagram that is educational, but I don’t record my podcast on video. Like, I know that’s like the thing. I know. I know. Every time I tell somebody that they’re like, what? I just don’t. I will, we are doing a lot of YouTube. Like we do one video a week. So I will take shorts from that and I’ll put those on, Pinterest, because we have seen the conversion from Pinterest to YouTube actually doing really, really well.

[00:34:11] But the, the caution that I have with linking directly to a podcast is what link are you going to use? Like I would tell people, go straight to your website. Don’t go to a player because people have like, I don’t know what people are listening to, if it’s Apple or if it’s Spotify. So, I mean, that’s something you can try.

[00:34:29] I don’t think they perform very well for me. I mean, I, they could be awareness builders. I haven’t tested it to a point to see what it does. And I mean, I was sitting in the room with a lot of people who were creators doing that exact thing. One woman was crushing it. 10 others were like, it’s doing nothing for me.

[00:34:45] Jeff Sieh: I think it also depends really on the, on the pin because like we’ll take short form stuff and take it and our social media is live. It has the video, it has the player, it has the article, and so they can kind of do whatever they want with it. And so we have seen on certain ones that it does really, really well.

[00:35:02] Other ones, you know, you know, crickets. So

[00:35:05] Kate Ahl: Yeah. Mm hmm.

[00:35:07] Conor Brown: It’s a very, you know, it’s, it’s who’s posting like different accounts working for different things and those sorts of things and content types. But right now, from an organic perspective, what is working with organic pinning? Like, okay, what are you seeing where, you know, you might have tried it for one client, you rolled out to another, seemed to work.

[00:35:25] If it’s a frequency, a cadence, just strategies in general, are there any that you’re really loving right now?

[00:35:32] Kate Ahl: Yeah, I would say, okay, for those who have a lot of evergreen content for taking an image and kind of catering it towards a season or an event, right? So that’s really working well for a lot of people who maybe they, you know, talk about something that’s not very event specific, but they’re turning their image into something that is event specific, right?

[00:35:53] Like that’s doing well. I would say updating. I get a little cautious here, right? Because there was a big thing about updating images and people like went crazy. But what we, yeah, I hate that word. Yeah. So I would say, the number one thing is to remain relevant with both creating content on your website at least one time per week, but also going back to older content and refreshing an image.

[00:36:18] But a lot of people like play the game of, I’m just going to move a line or I’m going to move a bubble or I’m going to do like really get creative with that because Pinterest

[00:36:25] I would say that is the number one, like people who are staying relevant with those things. They’re, they’re doing really, really well.

[00:36:31] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Relevancy, I think is the secret sauce and, and consistency as a secret sauce for everything on the interwebs. so I, I really do. So here’s the question that I’m really interested in because you mentioned that Pinterest has got a lot of new features like you don’t really have to think of what kind of pin to use.

[00:36:52] You can just throw it in there and it’ll do it. So do you still use a Pinterest scheduler or do you use, do you use the Pinterest scheduler or do you use the third party like Tailwind and some of the other ones?

[00:37:02] Kate Ahl: Yeah. We still use Tailwind and we’ve tried so many and we keep coming back to that one. So, I would say that’s, I wouldn’t, If this was great, I loved it when somebody said this a couple of weeks ago, they said, there’s a lot of these debates about whether or not to use a scheduling tool or not.

[00:37:19] Jeff Sieh: right.

[00:37:20] Kate Ahl: But the question is, if you don’t use a scheduling tool, are you actually still going to pin?

[00:37:25] And the answer is nine times out of 10, no, you’re going to forget about it. So we use that one. We really like it. And it’s been really effective for us. The Pinterest native scheduler, it doesn’t go past 30 days. And sometimes we want to stretch a pin out. So. I don’t, I don’t love it. I think it’s clunky.

[00:37:42] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so Tailwind is the only one that I would recommend. Like it’s just, it’s, it’s a, it’s a great, great tool. great people over there. So it’s the only one I would, I would use. for a while, does it, can you, for a while, I know they’ve reupdated a lot of stuff until when do you, are you using some of the AI stuff that they have there?

[00:38:00] that they’re, they’re pushing and using on the platform.

[00:38:04] Kate Ahl: You know, I think there are great tools. I just haven’t spent a lot of time with them. So I would say that’s a, that’s a big one is it’s the advantage with the AI, which I think can be really good. And here’s my caution for any tool that you use is Pinterest has its own version of AI right now.

[00:38:22] Like if you upload an image, it’ll give you like a description and all of that kind of stuff. I think it’s pulling from chat GPT and it’s always going to add hashtags. Hashtags are not relevant on Pinterest, so I haven’t experienced that as much with Tailwind, but if you get hashtags anywhere from AI, just remove them.

[00:38:38] Conor Brown: Got it.

[00:38:39] Jeff Sieh: That’s the other thing too, is a lot of people repurpose like their TikToks or Reels on there, and they’re throwing all their hashtags in there. I’ve even heard that people say that it actually hurts your reach on Pinterest. I haven’t tested that, but I’ve heard that, so you might as well take them out for everything anyway.

[00:38:55] Kate Ahl: it breaks the SEO value. Like Pinterest is looking at the keyword, so if you put a hashtag in front of it, it’s like it’s broken. Don’t do that. Don’t do it.

[00:39:04] Jeff Sieh: that note, on the SEO, and maybe you can speak on this a little bit more, but A lot of people don’t understand, don’t realize that Pinterest can read the text on your pin, right? So that is really, really important. One, and I’ve said this for years, quit using those scripty fonts. I know they’re pretty, I know they work on Instagram, but Pinterest cannot read them, right?

[00:39:27] They can’t read them. So, how much text, how much, and what are you finding that works the best for like text on image? Do you? And another question, sorry, do you experiment with both? Do you have like one A B test where you’re doing, here’s the pen with text on it, here’s one without, and what have you found?

[00:39:44] Kate Ahl: Okay. So no text versus text. The only time we’ve seen no text be effective is in home decor and fashion. Other than that, when you get into food or even you get into like even digital products, you have to add text in order for people to understand what it is. Whereas when you’re on like home decor or fashion, the text interrupts, it’s like people want to move it out of the way.

[00:40:07] So I, those are the only two niches I would say don’t use text. What I was talking about earlier with leveraging text on image, especially with the event, that’s kind of what I was talking about is working because Pinterest is reading the text on the actual pin. And if it’s something like spring or Easter or graduation or something like that, they’re taking that into consideration.

[00:40:30] And so you always want to add, I wouldn’t say a lot of text. Like when you get too much text, I talked to somebody recently, She did one of those infographics from a long time ago, and she was like, nobody’s clicking on it. And I’m like, that’s because you’re giving all the information. They don’t need to.

[00:40:48] So it’s like the, the, just the curiosity piece. So a phrase or less than five words, like make it bold, like, you know, have it stand out to people to where they’re scrolling through. They’re like, Oh, that’s interesting.

[00:41:00] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point. Yeah, catching the interest. It’s gonna get more and more hard to do this kind of stuff, so I think it’s really important that we, you know, So, having your stuff stand out, and this goes back to the whole fresh pen thing, don’t just change a font and upload it again, don’t just change a color and upload it again, that’s not helping your brand or your board or your SEO, so come up with something different.

[00:41:22] Like, take, by the way, you can go to, JeffSieh. com forward pin AI and learn how to use AI on your Pinterest. It’s helpful. I mean, you don’t want to just spit out garbage, but it kind of, if you’re sitting there looking at a blank screen, this free course can help you. So, JeffSieh. com forward slash pin AI.

[00:41:40] Let’s go into some, like, deep things about Pinterest advertising, because I think A lot of people would like to do this and they’re trying to figure it out. So you had a great article. And to be honest, I had never heard of it before. What are quiz ads? Like I didn’t, I didn’t even know this was a thing.

[00:41:57] talk about that. Cause that is fascinating.

[00:41:59] Kate Ahl: Yes. So we did a podcast on this and I have a, an ads director here and she went through it and we tested it. So basically it’s really good for like makeup or fashion. You want to help people figure out what’s right for them. So they would answer these three questions and then it would send them to the page that fit for them.

[00:42:21] We did it and it was like the worst conversion ever. It did not work for us. It was terrible. And actually, as of late, we’ve seen no quiz ads anymore. So I think what Pinterest is really trying to do is they were trying to leverage what they were kind of seeing on other platforms or even people having on their own website.

[00:42:37] But I just don’t think it’s like, They didn’t knock it out of the park right away. So I wouldn’t suggest any business, try them right now, unless they’ve tried them on other platforms like, or unless you’re in the makeup or, you know, you need to find a fit of a gene in fashion. But other than that, I wouldn’t recommend them.

[00:42:56] Jeff Sieh: So follow up question real quick. So Juana, my friend, Juana Cona, Verona says, I wish Pinterest was free of ads and only had ideas from individuals. And what I’m seeing is most ads on Pinterest are video. Maybe this is the way I’m doing my feed. So if we’re wanting to do Pinterest ads, does it have to be video?

[00:43:14] so on Pinterest ads, does it have to be video?

[00:43:16] Kate Ahl: No, actually, I am seeing a lot of carousel ads on mine, which are like you swipe through and you’ll see the little dots underneath. no, I would say video. I don’t know. It just depends on if you’ve had a video that’s already worked for you, but I would say standard ads or the carousel is going to be the best.

[00:43:34] But that’s actually a trick, right? If you’re looking to get creative with like your text, look through and see what ads are doing. And we all want platforms to be free of ads, but I would say as far as ads go, Pinterest does a pretty good job at like having them blend throughout the

[00:43:49] Jeff Sieh: Right. It’s just weird that maybe it’s just cause I’ve trained my algorithm, but I mostly all the

[00:43:54] Kate Ahl: Now I’m going to go look on mine.

[00:43:56] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I just see them all the time.

[00:43:58] Kate Ahl: Okay. Well, I, I have to say, I’ve only gotten a few on mine. It’ll be curious, right? Like it’s probably heard us talking. So now I’m going to get like only

[00:44:05] Jeff Sieh: So do you, do you do most of your Pint? I know most people do, and this is something that we didn’t talk about, but most Pinterest. comes from mobile, so make sure, so, yeah, make sure that you, your landing page or whatever you’re driving people to works really well and it’s really fast on mobile.

[00:44:21] That’s a lot of things that people don’t think

[00:44:23] Kate Ahl: Yeah. I’m going to add to that. If you have not looked at your pins on Pinterest mobile, Do it. Like, after we’re done with this call, go look at what they look like. And then even have a friend, like follow your pin to your website to make sure that’s seamless because if it’s not, people are out of there.

[00:44:41] Right? And so getting feedback from somebody else is really good.

[00:44:45] Jeff Sieh: So, I use ConvertBox, which has a pop up like to do stuff, and you can turn it off for mobile. Which I do because the, what makes me jump so fast is if I get a thing and I can’t find that X to get out of the, yeah. So, I, for pop ups, I turn them off for mobile viewers. I mean, maybe that’s, I’ll turn them on later and do something different.

[00:45:05] But for now, that’s what I’ve been able to do.

[00:45:06] Kate Ahl: Very interesting. I know. I, I’m sure I do some annoying things. So if you go to my website and have a pop up on like

[00:45:12] Jeff Sieh: yeah,

[00:45:13] Conor Brown: hold you to it. Don’t worry about it.

[00:45:15] Kate Ahl: you get, you won’t email me, turn this thing off.

[00:45:17] Conor Brown: oh heck, what do we talk about? Well, so like with Pinterest advertising, I mean, you know, I’ve done paid advertising before, but never on Pinterest, and I know my KPIs that I’m looking for, especially whatever my goal is when it comes to Pinterest.

[00:45:31] What are the best metrics we should be? Just to see the success of, you know, the money we’re pouring into Pinterest ads that we’re getting a return on that. I don’t know if it’s very, it can monitor conversions on your website as well as like meta ads can, but talk about some KPIs for that.

[00:45:48] Kate Ahl: Yeah. I would say return on ad spend is like number one. And then the leads that we’re getting from that are going to be what we’re, I mean, that’s what I primarily look at. And that’s what we look at for a lot of our clients is are we Getting the return that we want for the amount that we’re putting in.

[00:46:04] And here, this is actually an interesting example. We were running like lower cost ads for a hardware company, right? So you could go to the website, you could buy anything, drawer pulls, stuff like that. And we had off of one order from them, one Pinterest ads, like a 3, 000 order. Which was crazy, right?

[00:46:24] That’s not going to be all the time, but those are the things that you’re also looking for. So what’s the order value? Like how much are people buying? That’s a big one to look for.

[00:46:32] Conor Brown: With that then, then optimizing, you know, on other platforms, it’s a lot of test, test, test, test, continue to test, continue to test. Even if you, you have a winner, is Pinterest kind of the same when it comes to optimizing, you just always want to be, be testing, or if something’s working well, just, just let it run and kind of hands off.

[00:46:51] Don’t touch

[00:46:51] Kate Ahl: Yeah. I would say if anything’s working well, hands off, don’t touch it. But if something is not working well, it’s that you don’t know what to do. You want to do that two weeks first, and then after those two weeks, see, okay, what’s happened. And then you can let it go another two weeks and then adjust from there.

[00:47:07] It’s like the quiz ads thing. We tested it for, I think, two months, like at the end, we were like, this is terrible. We have like one conversion from it, right? So like either quiz ads aren’t working or it’s not right for our audience or something like that. There’ll be other things that will run for two or three months at a time.

[00:47:24] That’s kind of our limit is I want to see in those three months. Does it take off? Does it get distributed in more places on Pinterest? If not, I either turn it off or I tweak it. Or sometimes I just don’t have the energy to invest in it. I think that’s an important thing to evaluate is that we’re trying to do so many things in our business.

[00:47:43] And if something’s not working, you just can’t put energy into it. Especially if something like Facebook is working for you.

[00:47:50] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’s a great point. we do have one final question. This is from Gary, and I wanted to see if you have any answers for him. He says he had two mobile videos processing for days on Pinterest. Have you had any issues with videos processing and getting uploaded?

[00:48:05] Kate Ahl: not really. I mean, maybe here and there, but two days,

[00:48:08] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that sounds funky to me. And Gary knows what he’s doing with video. He’s not using some weird codec or

[00:48:13] Kate Ahl: Yeah, that’s really interesting. I would say delete them and then

[00:48:19] Jeff Sieh: yeah, and retry. I don’t know why they would do that.

[00:48:22] Kate Ahl: If it doesn’t upload after like 10 minutes, I delete.

[00:48:25] Jeff Sieh: yeah. Yeah. Oh,

[00:48:27] Kate Ahl: some long suffering there,

[00:48:28] Jeff Sieh: that’s right, Kerry. I’m like, gee, like, he’s like, don’t touch it. He’s like, I don’t want to, something,

[00:48:33] Kate Ahl: off the computer. Yeah.

[00:48:35] Jeff Sieh: oh, and our friend Mia Voss says, I’ve been lurking. Great info. Thank you, Mia. I’m, I’m so glad you’re here. Mia and I go way back and this is for Chris Stone all the way to Google So have a drink, drink, drink.

[00:48:46] Kate Ahl: Yes. Google We have a, we have a thing on the show where, Chris Stone says it’s a drinking game. Every time we mentioned Google he has to take a drink. So, Hmm.

[00:48:53] Jeff Sieh: the day. so, Kate, this has been fascinating. So much stuff. what would you tell people who are hesitant to even give Pinterest a try?

[00:49:02] What would you say to them? They’ve got a business. They’ve kind of optimized some other channels and they’ve heard about Pinterest. What would you tell them that are a little bit hesitant to get started?

[00:49:11] Kate Ahl: I would say first evaluate why you want to use it. So we put Pinterest in the bucket with YouTube and Google. It’s a cold traffic source. So if you need a cold traffic source in your business, or you want to add more of them, then you can. Then Pinterest is something you need to try. And then after that I would go through and I would identify who is the person that I’m targeting on Pinterest.

[00:49:32] Are they even there? If you’re in the finance space, like we had a guy come to us one time and he was like, I’m looking for men 50 to 60 that are interested in investing. I’m like, Pinterest is not the place for you because they’re just not really there. Right. But if you were targeting women, if the, between 30 and 50 who are interested in investing, then maybe that would work.

[00:49:53] So it’s evaluating, is my audience there? And then after that, if you can answer yes to all of those, then what I would do is I would nail your Pinterest images. Don’t, don’t make that an afterthought and then get your profile set up and then pin for at least six months, maybe even nine months and add your content to the platform.

[00:50:11] Be consistent about it and then see what happens. I know that nine months is an investment, but I don’t think it has to be. It’s not like an Instagram investment. It’s not like 20 or 30 hours a month. It’s maybe like 10. So that’s an important thing to evaluate.

[00:50:27] Yeah, that’s why it attracted me to Pinterest in the first place, is that it was easy, like it was, you know, I could do it, and I didn’t have to like, you know, do all the, I didn’t have to, you know, it was, it was an easy way to do it, and I’m, and I’m very lazy. So, talking. There’s no conversation. You don’t have to like talk with people.

[00:50:42] Jeff Sieh: Put it up there.

[00:50:42] Make a good image and you’re good. Pat says, Thank you, great info for us today. Yes, it has been awesome. Kate, I want to let people know where they can find you, your podcast, how, you know, what, how to sign up for that, where do they, get all the, the good stuff that is Kate all in Simple Pin Media.

[00:50:57] Kate Ahl: Yes. So simplepinmedia. com. But then, if you’re on YouTube, just go find Simple Pin Media, subscribe and watch a few of our videos. And then if podcasts are your thing. Go to Simple Pin Podcast, just listen to a few, see what we’re talking about. In the summer, we go into like a story series about businesses.

[00:51:16] So there’s not as much Pinterest content, but we have a backlog of like eight years of Pinterest. So I can’t believe it’s eight years. Actually. Can I tell you this story, Jeff? Cause you were actually super instrumental when we met at social media marketing world, one of the first times. And I think that’s when I was thinking about doing a podcast and you were like, If you don’t have a system set up, you will not continue to do it.

[00:51:39] And I was like, okay, like I’ll get a system. And I did. So here I am.

[00:51:44] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. Yeah. Do you, it’s weekly, isn’t it? It’s a weekly podcast,

[00:51:48] Kate Ahl: Yeah. Every Wednesday.

[00:51:50] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that eight years, that’s some, significant, investment, but it is very, very, very good. So, if you have any interest in this stuff, even if you’re just dabbling in Pinterest, it is worth going and putting some episodes in your player, you’re driving, doing housework, it is amazing.

[00:52:04] So, simplepenmedia. com, it is amazing. Also, Conor Brown, where can folks find out more about the amazing, unsinkable Conor Brown?

[00:52:12] Conor Brown: You can find more about me at vacationkingdoms. com, check out the rebrand over there, send me an email, connor, c o n o r, at vacationkingdoms. com, let me know what you think, and vacationkingdoms across all the social medias.

[00:52:26] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And don’t forget our sponsors for today’s show, Ecamm. Find out more about them at ecamm. com forward slash Jeff, intercode Jeff15 to save 15%. And don’t forget about the contest we have for Creator Camp. JeffSieh. com forward slash win. there’s all sorts of secret things that are happening, around my blog, the podcast.

[00:52:45] You can find those codes for extra entries. I think, who is winning right now? Corey Bassett is the one who has the most entries. Now that doesn’t mean he’s gonna win. He’s got the most chances. But, don’t let him win. He really, you need to knock him down a few notches. So go, find those bonus codes, sign up for everything.

[00:53:01] I would love to see you at Crater Camp. It’s gonna be amazing. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Thanks for watching everybody.

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