Instagram is moving beyond “just being a square photo-sharing app” and embracing more videos, shopping, and messaging. Peg Fitzpatrick joins us to discuss what businesses and marketers need to know about this shift in strategy.

We’re also going to explore how to leverage Instagram’s heightened focus on eCommerce for your business and how Instagram is planning to take on its competitors.


Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Welcome to Social Media News Live! I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not…  

[00:00:04] I’m 

[00:00:04] Grace Duffy: [00:00:04] Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s going on in the world of social media. And today’s show is brought to you by Restream, which is how we are being broadcast live to Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and a million other destinations like  Amazon live today. So if you’d like to find out how you can do the same, follow us at And find out how you can start your own live show 

[00:00:34] Jeff Sieh: [00:00:34] yes. And today we are joined by my friend Peg Fitzpatrick and where we are going to be talking about Instagram, moving beyond just being a square photo sharing app.

[00:00:44] Yeah. And embracing more videos, We’re  going to be talking. They want to have more shopping and they want to talk about messaging. We’re going to explore all of those. We’re going to talk about what business and marketers need to know about this shift in strategy. We’re gonna talk about how to leverage Instagram’s heightened focused on e-commerce for your business and how Instagram is planning to take on hot competitors like YouTube TikTok and the old Snapchat.

[00:01:08] By the way, if you guys want to create an amazing show, just like this one I can’t help but mention my amazing friends over at Ecamm. So if you want to find out more about them, go to And we’ll talk about that more in a bit, but I wanted to introduce my friend Peg Fitzpatrick.

[00:01:29] And if you don’t know Peg. You haven’t been on the internet very long. She is a popular social media speaker. She’s a trainer and a writer. She’s co-author of the art of social media power tips for power users covers all the major social media platforms. She frequently hears you’re everywhere and she really is.

[00:01:46] So she’s everywhere on social. She’s passionate about social media, helping small businesses, inspiring others to be their best. And she’s also a good friend Peg. Welcome to the show today. 

[00:01:57] Peg Fitzparick: [00:01:57] Hello. Sorry. I am blurry. We have tropical storm Ellis, I think hitting us right now. So 

[00:02:05] Jeff Sieh: [00:02:05] let it go. Yeah, how’d it go

[00:02:12] really quick. I want to give a shout out to my friend. Ramon Ray is here. He goes. Why just Dustin, when we did a shout out I’m going to shout at you Ramon. Thank you for stopping by and today. 

[00:02:37] Scott says that we’re talking about Instagram today. Has there been more a photo image sharing app for a while in his humble opinion, but we’re going to talk about that with this first bit of news.

[00:02:55] So Grace break this down for us because this is really. A little bit crazy, but go ahead. Instagram Announces Its No Longer A Square Photo Sharing Platform

[00:03:02] Grace Duffy: [00:03:02] It is. And it isn’t like Scott, our friend Scott heirs over there mentioned it has not, Instagram has not just been a photo-sharing app for a long time, but that has been its main focus. At least as people have built their presence on Instagram, the focus has always been on these luxurious, beautiful, highly stylized photos.

[00:03:22] But last week Instagram, chief Adam Mosseri took to the platform to announce his overview for the company’s plans for the coming coming quarters. So third quarter fourth quarter of the rest of 2 20 11 or 2021. I don’t know what year we’re in. Sorry. I just, oh my gosh. And then he also added, this is interesting too.

[00:03:47] He also added in company surveys. It shows that more people use Instagram to be entertained. And that’s where Instagram is. Future seems to be leaning towards, which I think is good. Funny to even mention, because it’s like, why aren’t why, else are we on social media? Like I don’t come on here for the ads.

[00:04:03] So I’m here to to connect and be entertained and be around people that I like love and enjoy. And then of course, they’re also talking about that the focus is going, I think the bigger news is the focus is now going to be on video and shopping. So does a huge wide range of reactions to this news in the social media world.

[00:04:27] Peg, what was yours? What do you think of this big announcement? This quote, unquote, big announcement. 

[00:04:33] Peg Fitzparick: [00:04:33] I think they came out and made the big amount announcement, like Pinterest did to just say, hey, we are they want to tell you what they are because they’re trying to segway people that way.

[00:04:45] So I think the thing is obviously it has been more than just images, but it’s still what it says everywhere. That literally was the description of Instagram for a really long time. Was it? It’s a photo sharing app you share a square images. They tried to expand it and let people do taler images and wider images.

[00:05:04] But nobody does. 

[00:05:06] I never see anything except for square images ever. 

[00:05:10] Jeff Sieh: [00:05:10] Nope. I’ve tried it and it doesn’t work. 

[00:05:12] Peg Fitzparick: [00:05:12] Yeah. It’s we are, it’s ingrained in us that, so they’re really trying to change the narrative. If we want to go back to mad men, they’re trying to tell us what they want us to know. And that is, we are not just for photos.

[00:05:27] You can share your videos here too. And the reason that I feel this is such a big deal is because of the attention economy. And you spent a lot more time with a video than you do with a photo. Yes. You can write a big, long description. People have written longer captions, hashtags. I feel are barely working these days.

[00:05:48] So for me, if I post a, just a photo on Instagram, it barely does anything. The algorithm is like dead for my account video. And 

[00:05:58] I think that’s across the board and I think people just don’t want to admit it. They don’t want to admit, but my Instagram two years ago was way better than my Instagram.

[00:06:07] Now it sh it ha why is that? Like, why is my growth on Pinterest so much better? And I spend more time on Instagram and it’s always been that way. They’re really have shut down the algorithm much like Facebook pages. So this, if you’ve been around on social media for awhile, it’s not surprising. We all knew this was going to come that at some point, the organic algorithm was just going to stop.

[00:06:32] You have all these people that liked your account, but they’re not going to see your stuff and laugh. You place an ad. So it gets back to the attention economy where you’ll have to pay for somebody to see it, even though they’ve already liked your account. It’s exactly like it makes me hyperventilate a little bit because it makes me, I worked so hard to get like 10,000 followers on a company, Facebook page that I managed.

[00:06:58] And it was very challenging and nobody people just don’t see the content. And then if we look to the other change that they made, which is they’re going to be moving more of their features towards desktop, I think that they’re trying to get. Older people that are on Facebook to be able to see some of the things that they might not see in the app.

[00:07:18] So the millennials and the gen Z have their phone in their hands all the time. Maybe gen X, too. We could say we do. We probably do too. But in general, people do different things on desktop and their phone, unless you’re a social media manager. And then we’re on both at the same time looking at our phone and the desktop at the same time.

[00:07:37] But then I think that it’s all part of that. They’re just trying to change it. They’re like, okay, we’re gonna let you see real snap. On desktop and the really interesting stat.

What’s The Most Popular Video Format On Instagram Now?

What do you think, do you guys think is the most popular video on Instagram right now? If you guys that are watching, what do you think is the most popular?

[00:07:58] Is it IGTV? Is it live? Is it Reels or is it like an in post? What one do you guys think is the most popular? Because I was really surprised by the stat that I heard recently. Which one do you guys think it is? Grace and Jeff. 

[00:08:15] Grace Duffy: [00:08:15] I’m going to have to say live video because that is that’s what I get asked about all the time.

[00:08:21] People want to scream on Instagram, especially people that are started with the integration of live shopping. People are very interested in doing it. And so I’m actually, I was going to you, you jumped ahead to my question, which is awesome. 

[00:08:36] Peg Fitzparick: [00:08:36] No, it’s fine. I have to answer this one before we go out.

[00:08:43] Grace Duffy: [00:08:43] Sorry. No, go ahead. 

[00:08:46] Jeff Sieh: [00:08:46] I’ll go last because I have control over everything. I know the answer. I dont’ know the answer. So Carrie says Reels. She says that she thinks Reels would be the most popular. Another person says, I think it’s gotta be Reels. And Scott says, has Reels has to be more popular than IGTV or IG live.

[00:09:07] I think it’s, I don’t know this answer, but I’m going to have to go with probably. The thing that I don’t think it is. I think it’s probably IG live and that’s probably just because it’s like the underdog. What is it? The correct answer Peg? 

[00:09:21] Peg Fitzparick: [00:09:21] It is video in Stories. 

[00:09:23] Jeff Sieh: [00:09:23] Oh. 

[00:09:26] Peg Fitzparick: [00:09:26] People are still watching Stories more and you can see Stories on Facebook.

[00:09:33] So maybe there’s correlation. So I think that they’re trying to think they wanted us to really like I GTV and it Reels. They’re very, they’re favoring Reels a lot. You can see that all the time. Like you see Reels all the time. They pop up, people share their Reels to their Stories, but Stories are still getting a lot of attention because people are comfortable with them.

[00:09:55] You just click on it. They’re up there, you watch them. But Instagram is moving towards. They want people to do live video like Grace, mentioned, and they want people to do real. So they’re pushing those two features, but that’s not right now. What is most popular people like Stories. I thought that was 

[00:10:16] Jeff Sieh: [00:10:16] That is really interesting.

[00:10:19] I want to, talk about it because the reason this word we’re having this conversation that they had made this. Now they’re not a photo sharing app anymore.

Instagram’s Competition

It’s because of competition. So let’s talk about the competition. So these platforms, it was, are mimicking one another while trying to remain unique and trying to keep users engaged.

[00:10:36] Instagram rolled out and we got a lot of comments about IGTV a few years ago in response to YouTube, but that really didn’t take off. Like I remember the big press announcement they had, they got all those influencers to come, I didn’t really do what it was supposed to do. Then TikTok started heating up.


TikTok Rolls Out Longer Videos

It rolled out Reels, Instagram rolled out Reels and response to tick dock, but then people just use Reels to repost their tick docks. And then this week we learned that TikTok has embraced longer videos. And I think it’s already going crazy because my daughter even showed me now, like Jimmy Kimmel and Kristin Bell did a thing and it was a whole song that was.

[00:11:15] TikTok that I could watch. And it’s, really cool now that you have this longer time to do stuff in, I think it’s, going to be hard for them to catch up anyway, my opinion. So the company announced that talks and it’s going to do these three. You can get these three minutes in length after they tested this with a larger number of creators, they’ve been doing that over the past several months.

[00:11:35] So before it was only 60 seconds. Now we went from 15 to 60 and now it’s it’s just going crazy. So what is Instagram up against here? Because it feels like they’re always chasing the tail of TikTok. So is it too late? I guess the good thing for us is it’s going to be they always give preference in the algorithm to things they want to happen.

[00:12:03] Should we start posting more IGTV because they want to have more video or should we just forget about our feed and just start posting video in there? What are your thoughts? 

[00:12:13] Peg Fitzparick: [00:12:13] I think the interesting thing about TikTok making longer videos is part of the reason that you would watch videos over and over again because they were short and sometimes they were fast. If somebody was teaching you something and they only had 30 seconds, they would go really fast and then you would watch it multiple times getting more attention. So they’re keeping you on that one thing longer. So it’s going to be interesting. I think they moved to I think, I don’t know why TikTok really did it. I’m guessing. But I think that they did it because they want more longer they it’s long enough for a song. They’ve seen a lot of success with music on TikTok. They started as musically. So it was just like video lip-sync and then they switched to TikTok.

[00:13:00] There’s so many different layers and levels of ticktack. There’s cleaning, TikTok, and teacher TikTok, and book TikTok, and there’s all these different things that people are learning different things. So they’re giving people longer to do that in it’s going to change the format of the videos because.

[00:13:18] The shorter. It is actually the harder it is to make something great. And I’ll refer back to the all great Zach King, because that can frickin amazing. He’s so good at making things. If you guys don’t know him, check out his tic tocky started out on fine. And he’s he does, he is the best at these really creative, great videos.

[00:13:40] Now he has more time. Yeah. But can you do that? What he does in a three minute video, he won’t do longer ones in my opinion, because his stuff is like a story you might, if if that’s all they’re going to be as longer, but now you have that difference in time. It changes the formatting a lot.

[00:13:59] It’s like when Twitter, yeah. Was only 140 characters and you couldn’t thread your things or tie them together or whatever, you would spend a really long time trying to make your text fit into that one thing in a smart way, in a good way, in a funny way. Like it’s, harder to be more edited than it is to have longer time, if that makes sense.

[00:14:20] But three minutes isn’t that kind of what YouTube was working on with you? 

[00:14:27] Jeff Sieh: [00:14:27] Shorts are under a minute. But I want to talk about that because. This is just my opinion, but I think TikTok not really worried about Instagram or Facebook. I think this three minute thing is going after YouTube because I bet if you could see everybody talks about the the optimal link on YouTube and all that stuff.

[00:14:46] And it was the longer videos. They went longer time on site, but with shorts and some of these other things, I have a feeling and I haven’t seen any studies about this, but I have a feeling that the most watched length of YouTube is getting shorter and shorter. And I think, 

[00:15:00] Peg Fitzparick: [00:15:00] oh, she’ll go around three, three minutes is what they say, do at least a three minute.

[00:15:05] I think people’s attention is shorter everywhere. So it’s interesting that they’re all giving you longer time. Cause they’re betting out even longer, but. Three minutes, really a long time think about that. That’s our log time now, are going after YouTube. I do think TikTok to Dustin agrees.

[00:15:28] And I think YouTube is the king of video, but not the short video. Its TikTok. The thing is that the, youngest kids that, that are out there, they’re all on TikTok and, the popular things is always where the youngest generations are because they know what’s hot and cool. So there are all different ages on TikTok.

[00:15:50] It’s not only The gen Z or millennials, but it’s a good portion of it. I think I’m really a TikTok consumer. I’m not a creator on TikTok. I have a desktop, I have a few videos and I like, 

[00:16:06] I can’t even figure out how to do the things like I see some really cool transition stuff that people do over there.

[00:16:13] There’s one where they’re doing a freeze frame. Reese Witherspoon posted one the other day. It’s literally, it was just like a really short video, but there’s six versions of her in the video where that’s a TikTok thing. I know it is, but she posted it on Instagram. 

[00:16:28] The thing with the comparison between Reels and TikTok videos is TikToks tools are better that you can make cool things like you can sync the video to the music automatically where you can do that in Reels and they’re adding more features, but to some extent, I think that the changes that Instagram made to try to ward off Snapchat worked a little bit better than they are with TikTok. I don’t see as many people talking about Snapchat anymore, but kids still use it for personal communication. It’s like a communication tool for them. But anytime that an app is getting the attention, that’s all that counts.

[00:17:09] Like any attention, watching a video, talking to people like Facebook tries to make us have 58 apps on our phone that are messenger Instagram. They tried to have the IGTV had a separate out.

[00:17:21] I don’t want like 10 Facebook apps. They’re all Facebook. 

[00:17:28] Jeff Sieh: [00:17:28] So I want to bring up some comments here because I think it’s Dustin said that he doesn’t think they’re, not completely not worried about IGTV though.

[00:17:36] They can’t let their guard down. Yeah. They have the eyeballs. They’ve got the, user the amount of people there. I, but I when it, can almost go to be like, okay, YouTube is going to be the DIY how to do stuff. If your washer’s broke, here’s what you can go and look out a, fix yourself, longer form stuff.

[00:17:55] But I could see all the entertainment stuff drifting over to TikTok. That’s just an idea. 

[00:18:00] Peg Fitzparick: [00:18:00] Lot of informational stuff there too, though. Even when it was only me I’ve had, TikTok like people have taken life hacks to the extreme, like how to put your you’re putting your garbage can liner in wrong.

[00:18:14] This is how to do it. And you’re like, Yeah, I’ve been doing that for a long time. I had my bag inside out there 

[00:18:20] Jeff Sieh: [00:18:20] My daughter was learning, investing on, TikTok. There’s this whole sub niche of like TikTok investors like these 20 somethings that are teaching people how to do it. And they’re smart. It’s not just like somebody going, Hey.

[00:18:31] Yeah. Anyway, but Gary says this over on LinkedIn and I wanted to pull this up. He goes, and this is back to Instagram and they’re highlighting video goes, I made an Instagram real a few weeks ago and got an unbelievable reach, like a hundred times what a photo post would usually get us. So they’re already starting to do that.

[00:18:49] And I don’t know. So Grace, you ha you had a, point about this, that you had talked about what the, director said of Instagram said about still photos.

Instagram Says That Video Will Take Over Still Photos

[00:19:01] Grace Duffy: [00:19:01] Oh yeah. So this, was a big quote. So it was already said that videos are here to take over still. Here to take over still photos.

[00:19:12] So they’re not even like they’re full transparency. This is what’s happening. You’re telling you what they’re doing there changes and how the platform serves you, content recommendations. So as those, you’re going to be seeing a lot more video recommendations. And I’m seeing that too, in my own Instagram feed is I’m seeing a lot more video recommendations.

[00:19:34] So the negative reaction about this news is largely, at least for me, I follow a lot of photographers. And so a lot of the reaction was from that I’ve seen is from them because they’re people that had built a photo based portfolio on the platform. They’ve spent years doing a lot of business owners and a lot of organizations have been doing the same thing because that was such the focus.

[00:19:54] And they have all of this photo content, which you have time to produce it. You have time to really style it. Being as a little video is completely different. And so a lot of the feedback I was seeing was that I don’t have time to make a multitude of videos or that much content, because it is seen as much more content and one claim that there are doubling down on other sites, like they’re saying I’m leaving, I’m going to Pinterest.

[00:20:17] Now I’m going to just, I’m just going to go double down on TikTok now. So with video being prioritized over any other kind of content on there is there any escape because do we just have to say, okay, now we’re doing videos. 

[00:20:34] Peg Fitzparick: [00:20:34] That’s interesting. We can choose to do anything we want, if we just want to do photos, then we can go to flicker or we can go to other places and just do photos.

[00:20:45] Cause there are tons of really great photographers on Instagram. And frankly I liked seeing them and looking at them too. I think one of the things that we didn’t talk about yet is that TikTok is a place where you can go viral, no matter how many followers you have. And I don’t know how they’re going to fix that on Instagram.

[00:21:05] If they think their explore page people, don’t go to their explore page. People look at the people they follow. I hardly ever look for people I’m not following on Instagram. And TikTok, I’m just looking for cool content. So you get a lot of the, for you page. Like you get, you have your choices. Following or for you, those are your two choices.

[00:21:26] And on Instagram they have all that stuff at the top. So they’re telling you all the time to look at Stories because that’s what they’re showing you live Stories. If there’s people I’ve, that first and then first you, so you can add some more content, please add more content. And then there’s the store there’s the live people.

[00:21:45] And then there’s Stories. They’re not showing us first that there’s other people that we can find they’re showing us who we go first. That’s what I see. When I look on my phone all the time. What do you guys see? I’d like to know people that are listening. Do you guys go and look at the explore page a lot?

[00:22:02] I sometimes will, but I don’t very often. 

[00:22:06] Jeff Sieh: [00:22:06] I just usually try to… I’m less and less on Instagram. Most of the time I’m checking to see who messaged me there or something like that. That’s more, what I’m using it for. Also, I would be interested in is what Grace said is this just one more frustrating thing that you have to deal with?

[00:22:24] Because now lot of people photos, honestly, you’re a lot easier to curate, like Grace was saying, and plan ahead and all this stuff. And if it’s going to be more video than that’s, that raises the bar a lot. And that’s a struggle. So one of the things, because Peg I you are a social media expert and you’re everywhere do you agree still with the advice that businesses and content creators should pick one or one or two platforms and go deep there like figure out what channels do you enjoy most?

[00:22:51] What gets the best results? And then your audience find out where they spend their time and then versus trying to be everywhere, because I know you’ve been frustrated and we’ve had talks about this. Like you said at the beginning, you spend all this time growing your Instagram account and growing Instagram accounts for your clients.

[00:23:07] And now there’s this. Okay. Yeah. Photos. Aren’t going to work anymore. You need to do video. When you think about your clients, that’s a big hurdle. 

[00:23:16] Peg Fitzparick: [00:23:16] Yeah, I still right at the moment am sticking with my, pick a couple things that might change though. Here’s the thing that I was thinking about.

[00:23:27] I think we need to get better at video and I will be the first to say I’m not a hundred percent great at video. I can. I’m great. I could be on camera. I can record things. I can do some video editing in Adobe premiere rush. I love that program. It’s so easy. I’ve never been able to figure out the more complicated ones to be honest, like video editing is just not my strong suit, but I think it might be creating videos and then repurposing itin the proper site. Like we used to do with phones. Yeah, I think we might be moving to that. It was always like, create your content. You, have a blog post, you do an image in this size for this, for Twitter and this size for Pinterest and this square for Instagram, maybe it’s going to be video. Maybe we’re moving to a chop shop for video to coordinate things into thedifferent sizes, which by the way you could do in Adobe 

[00:24:24] Grace Duffy: [00:24:24] Rush

[00:24:24] I think that makes us smaller, the smaller micro content, like the 32nd, 15 seconds, 60 seconds. If that makes it easier too, because it’s easier to edit a 30 second video.

[00:24:34] You can get on there. Do 30 seconds edit that. Then the whole like hour long show. 

[00:24:40] Jeff Sieh: [00:24:40] Yeah, I think it’s, for example, for this show, I take the show and I chop it up with the Descrip and then I put it out on all the socials and that already happening with TikTok stuff. They’re taking TikTok and they’re putting it to Reels.

[00:24:54] They’re taking it, putting on Pinterest. So people are already frustrated and I’m just going to do this and do it everywhere. So I think your point of repurposing is a pretty on point there, Peg, 

[00:25:06] Peg Fitzparick: [00:25:06] It needs to be more thoughtful than just sharing your TikTok other places. That’s the problem that people were doing is they were taking their TikToks and putting them on Pinterest and Instagram. And it’s maybe nobody wants to see the other logos or the other formats. But I did see a stat. It was like a crazy stat. That video is shared. I want to say 2000 percent more than any other. I knew it was like an insane 1500% more. It was like a really high stat that video sharing. And I think part of that is TikTok makes it real easy to share on other platforms. They’re like, oh, you want to share? Cool. 

[00:25:47] Jeff Sieh: [00:25:47] So lwe asked people if they use the explore page and Dustin says, I used to go to the explore page a lot on IG, but now I basically spend time with stories, 10% feed, 10% reels, 80% look at him. He’s got it all broken down by percentage. He’s so smart. And Sabrina goes, she doesn’t look at the Explorer page. Gary is kinda like Dustin. He spends a lot more time viewing stories. And yeah, it’s really interesting that where people are consuming stuff and most of these stories are mostly video a lot of times.

[00:26:19] And yeah really, interesting stuff. 

[00:26:23] Peg Fitzparick: [00:26:23] What are the chances of creating a reel on Instagram? And having it go viral versus the same thing on TikTok. I have a TikTok that I made my only one that’s actually done. Okay. And it’s a little like unboxing thing that I did when I was just testing how the music and the image line up and it was for the Remarkable Tablet and it keeps getting views. I don’t know how, but it keeps getting found and people comment on it. It’s over a thousand views, which is not viral by any means on TikTok. But I only have 50 followers or something like that. If I kept creating the content, maybe it would, but you see all the time, people that have 50 followers and it goes, they’ll get like millions.

[00:27:11] There’s every example of viral content over there is people that had no followers. The skateboarding dude, that ocean spray, cranberry juice. Yes. Brought Fleetwood Mac back to the mainstream for 

[00:27:24] Come on. Who would even thought cranberry juice and Fleetwood Mac, how do those go together? 

[00:27:30] One guy likes them. 

[00:27:33] Grace Duffy: [00:27:33] What I have to say is that TikTok does, in my own experience, TikTok does a better job of showing me things that I’m actually interested.

[00:27:41] To the point where I’ll start getting these tech talks and I’ll ask my friend, what is going on in my life that I’m getting this content what am I doing? What am I putting out there? It comes to Instagram on real. It’s it’s showing me stuff that I’m like, I have no interest in this and I don’t know how to stop it.

[00:27:59] But no way of me telling Instagram I, don’t want to and it had to be stuck on this to the point where, like I stopped going on Instagram completely because what they were showing me was so upsetting that I was just like, I can’t, I don’t even want it. 

[00:28:13] Peg Fitzparick: [00:28:13] Yeah, They’re also using your Google searches or other things and TikTok is doing a lot of ad placements. I don’t know if you guys see TikTok ads. I see them all the time. Do you get ads for me on Twitter to go watch pets on TikTok I’m like, I watch plenty of pets. They’re like, come starting an account. You can have millions of furry friends. 

[00:28:38] Jeff Sieh: [00:28:38] One of the funny things, and I count myself as a furry friend.

[00:28:43] One of the things that Dustin brought up and we were gonna talk with us a little bit later, but he goes, anyone here that TikTok is now selling its AI to other companies. That is one of the reasons is because their AI is spot on for recommendations and getting that stuff that you want to see to you.

[00:28:58] One of the things I want to ask, because we talked a little bit just a second ago about going viral on TikTok, and it’s a lot easier than in other platforms. The question I have for you Peg is that’s true. Cause my, like my. My son’s girlfriend went viral. One of her posts went viral, but is the ROI for virality different on TikTok than it is on YouTube versus like Instagram, because I don’t see the return on investment and I’ve argued, we’ve had Rachel, I haven’t argued, but we’ve talked about it with Rachel Peterson on here before is that’s great. But how does that make my business do better or get me leads or sales and that kind of stuff. So what do you say to that? 

[00:29:37] Peg Fitzparick: [00:29:37] Okay. What I say about that is that. TikTok is starting out after a lot of other things.

[00:29:45] If people have already figured out how to monetize, I see tons of people on Instagram. I’m sorry. I’d TikTok that are totally monetizing things. At Christmas time, there was this girl that was doing all these amazing videos on how to wrap presents difficult to rep presence, which everybody is spending December wrapping those really hard things.

[00:30:06] And she was linking to this thing on Amazon. That was a little tape dispenser that clipped on to the counter. So you clipped your paper and you could get to even clip them on the sides, roll it out. And then it was also the tape dispenser. And that thing, that little tool that this one person went viral on TikTok was sold out everywhere. And that was her. She sold that out. Feta cheese. Another thing. That person went viral, she was in the Netherlands. I think she made that viral pasta. It was just tomatoes, feta, some basil. And she did this baked pasta thing that went viral. Her whole country ran out of feta. Her whole country ran out of feta.

[00:30:51] So brands aren’t necessarily always at the front of it, but people are, I don’t think she had affiliate links for feta cheese, which is a bummer, but some people are making a lot of money on it. It’s hard to get ahead of it. You can never, ever, I don’t care what anyone tells you. You can’t plan to go viral.

[00:31:13] There’s so much like, it’s like blowing fairy dust on something you can make really great content and you can it’s don’t you think that is true. Like Ryan Reynolds fairy dust.

[00:31:28] Jeff Sieh: [00:31:28] Brian Reynolds. She is a super fan. 

[00:31:30] Peg Fitzparick: [00:31:30] Friday, is my Ryan Reynolds content day. 

[00:31:33] Jeff Sieh: [00:31:33] She tells me when she gets retweeted by him all the time.

[00:31:36] One of the things this is really on-point by Dustin. He goes, ah, this is very telling a show about Instagram is equally about TikTok. Yeah, because they made these changes because of TikTok it’s you can just tell, so we are almost halfway through the show and we were on our first segment.

[00:31:53] So we got to move to our second one really quickly. Grace let’s talk about this really quick, cause we want to talk about these video ideas. We have already, but let’s just summarize it really quick.

Video Ideas for Instagram

[00:32:05] Grace Duffy: [00:32:05] I wanted to focus on what it is that, because we’ve all talked, we’ve just talked about what we can’t have.

[00:32:09] Let’s talk about what they’re giving us, right? Which is where they are focusing more on full screen, immersive entertaining mobile first video, full screen, immersive entertaining video. Mobile first video. TikTok right. And they’re also focusing on four key areas, of course, video creators. So they are supporting creators more.

[00:32:32] They’re creating more opportunities for creators to make money off of their platform, not through affiliate links, although that helps not through brands, but like just by making videos on Instagram shopping. So I know we I, briefly mentioned live shopping, but they are putting a bigger emphasis on e-commerce this coming year or throughout the rest of the year and then messaging.

[00:32:55] So they didn’t go as too much detail into those last two things, because just like video, oh, let’s talk about that. And the competition is still stiff in these areas, right? Try taking on Shopify and Amazon, when it comes to shopping, we’re on Amazon live right now. We’re not selling anything, but we do great there.

[00:33:18] So how do you think this strategy or this change in strategy on Instagram’s part should inform the change in strategy in when we’re working with our clients or creating our own branded. 

[00:33:28] Peg Fitzparick: [00:33:28] So I’ll give a great example of a brand who does really great, things with their Instagram stories and I’m sure lives and other things.

[00:33:37] Why have a couple of examples, one is Rent the Runway. They’ll show like hot things. They’ll show new brands and they have designers that come on, they’ll have a little rack of clothes and it’s full. It’s a live video and they’re showing you the things. So I think they’re trying, I think Instagram is they’re expanding on all these influencers that are doing like the to know it things where you can get the links it’s in the bio, you can go, I have it, like on my Instagram, you can click on the link on my bio.

[00:34:07] It takes you to a thing. Like these are the things I like. You can see my Amazon page with things that I recommend or books that I’m talking about. So they’re just tying those things together more and trying to make more live experiences. So as we went through the pandemic and a lot of countries are still like way deep in it, but they had to move everything virtual and that included like fashion shows and people loved them.

[00:34:34] They did a fashion show. I think Kristen Stewart was like the one attendee at the Chanel fashion show. How do you get that life where you get to be the one that there, Jeff, I know you have the interest in that, but it is amazing, like an amazing opportunity, but they, did them all on video.

[00:34:52] They show you when they’re all the things and then you can buy them. And that’s where all of the platforms are moving now on the photos. And you can click on Instagram. Remember those old time when they had photos, when Instagram used to have photos, you can click on it and you can see now the shopping thing.

[00:35:09] So they’re really tying together. Interestingly enough, your Facebook page as a small business, if you have all your products on there, you can link to them on Instagram. And for sure those are all going to be. Linkable on your reels and stories and all the video things later. And I don’t know how we’ll do it for live.

[00:35:29] My guess would be you would prepare your list of stuff and maybe they would have to check it out after in the description for a link or something. That’s some crazy AI machine learning stuff that I don’t know. I don’t know how they’re going to do that, but it’s just going to be like full immersive, like exclusive, product launches.

[00:35:50] Another brand that I follow all the time is Olive and June nail Polish. And they do tons of stuff online. They actually had retail stores that they closed that were closed during the pandemic. And I found out they’re not even opening them. They’re not reopening their nail salons because they sell all their products on their Instagram account, like almost exclusively on their Instagram account. Their founder is all in, on making live content. She, they have all their resources towards creating great stuff. They’re starting to work with ambassadors. They do their product launches. 

[00:36:24] People are hanging on their, every word to find out what their next colors are going to be.

[00:36:28] It’s July and people in their comments were like, when are the fall colors coming out? Like people want the next colors. They’re great. I love their products, but what they’ve done, like moving it all online and really reaching people. You can click on their photos, you can get the colors, they share tons of user generated content.

[00:36:47] So they’re a brand that’s really looked at like digital first mobile first. Like they’re like deep in it. So it’s cool to see. And I know, every different genre of shopping has. Different brands that are like all in. I see a lot of beauty brands on instagram cause I like to follow them because they’ve always had great social for some reason, the beauty brands like they they’ve worked really closely with the influencers obviously, and probably sports are the same sports are probably the same as tying together, but you just see so many of the beauty brands that have really just put resources towards making great content.

[00:37:26] Jeff Sieh: [00:37:26] Yeah, Sabrina says, this is just like the NYX cosmetics closed all stores during the pandemic online only now. So a lot of people were forced to, but the good ones had already been on their way. So one of the questions I want to talk about really quick is let’s talk about this deeper e-commerce integration on Instagram.

[00:37:43] So I know you work with a lot of small businesses, that’s one of your specialties is small business social. And so how can brands and businesses make the most of these Instagram e-commerce features and tools. So can you tell us a little bit really quickly about what’s available?

[00:37:59] Should we all go in on live shopping because right. as of right now, it’s pretty exclusive for certain types of retailers. I’m really interested or should we just leave Instagram as a messaging thing that we use it as we’re talking to clients Twitter was that it was customer service type of thing. So what are your thoughts for small businesses? 

[00:38:20] Peg Fitzparick: [00:38:20] If you don’t have products that you can do is clickable things. You could still do the live in store things, which I know you have done some of those with your, with small businesses before Jeff it depends on what you’re selling, how you can use these things.

[00:38:35] So you do have to do a little bit of a twist for it. If you have physical products that you can put in a store and make them all clickable, for sure. Get to that. If you have products, I have products that I can’t do that.

[00:38:47] I I can’t, You can’t sell chemicals.That’s not possible, but you could still do in person you could do a vet because people aren’t, we’re not really at in-person events a hundred percent yet to some extent we are, but you could do exclusive launches for products. You could do any of those things. Anything that a big business can do a small business can do. They can just change it to their, to whatever who they’re trying to reach. So if you have an Instagram page, I hope that they’re going to open up your algorithm.

[00:39:19] If you’re making live video, if they’re trying to push towards video and you’re doing what. What they want us to do, which is not a great feeling as a creator to have to switch to something that’s not your content. Like I hardly ever make video for one of my clients, but the ones I do I have on YouTube.

[00:39:36] So I’ll have to test that too. It does take longer to make that content. So it’s going to have to be a switch for budget stuff, but it can be like live video, which you still have to prep for, but you could do live, you could do product launches, you could talk about products. 

[00:39:55] And like I said, Olive and June they do a lot of creative content, but they also do like live tutorials.

[00:40:02] And how to do different kind of manicures, how to do cuticles, how to like the, all the different things. So they’ve really just taken every part of their products and figured out how to translate that online. I think if you ask people, could you do tutorials for manicures and would people watch that? I think people would probably say no.

[00:40:21] Like why would people watch that? But people are obsessed with it. 

[00:40:24] Jeff Sieh: [00:40:24] They watch Dr. Pimple popper, so they’d probably watch cuticles. Sorry. Anyway, speaking of we’ve been talking a lot about live video and how all these networks are starting to push them out more. And one of the best ways to do live video is by our friends over at Ecamm.

[00:40:42] You can find out more about them at, but I want to talk really quick about their brand new Leap Into Live summit. They’re having coming up soon. You can go to And register for that kind of pre-register for it. And it’s going to be amazing.

[00:40:58] I’m going to be speaking there. You’re going to learn how to do so many cool things. They’re going to be have live panels, discussions, workshops, virtual cocktail parties, which is always fun. But if you’re wanting to know how do what I do, which is, and since Peg is on here, I’ll mention that I live produce Guy Kawasaki show using Ecamm and Restream together.

[00:41:18] And so you want to learn how to do that kind of things for your clients. Make sure you sign up for it at It’s going to be amazing. And I mentioned it that what we use it for, a Guy Kawasaki show is the amazing Restream!

[00:41:34] Grace Duffy: [00:41:34] Absolutely. Yeah, we’re just talking about Peg Fitzpatrick here being everywhere, and you can be everywhere too, with the power of free streaming go to over 30 plus online destinations online.

[00:41:45] So you can create these fully branded completely professional live streams like we’re doing right now, too. To go live. And so I know people are just, we’re talking about getting started in life. I want to get Peg and I want to get your advice for someone who is just getting started with live or someone who wants to dip their toe in.

[00:42:05] So I’ll give my advice first, which is it’s nerve wracking to go live. Now I can’t even do any other kind of video. Like whenever I try to do prerecorded, I’m like I turned into a dead Armadillo or something. I don’t know. Like it’s not very fun. So I just, it’s not good. So I always recommend that if you’re just getting started, go live into a group of people that like you, but not like you too much so that they will tell you, Hey, you can do this better or whatever, but it helps you start getting used to being on camera, talking to people, interacting with guests.

[00:42:37] So I always say if you’re good. For the first time, try it in a group of people that you know. What about you guys? 

[00:42:46] Peg Fitzparick: [00:42:46] I like to, I go into Ecamm. Usually I like to just set things up before going live so I can see what it’s gonna look like. So it like to test my lights. Like I tested my lights, to be honest, I maybe should have done it.

[00:42:59] I don’t know. I look really pale for some, I am pale, but I have my lights set up. I have my background. I like to just test my camera and all my stuff. So sometimes I go on Ecamm and test it there, but I also will just go into a Facebook. Jeff and I have this Facebook page that’s so nobody sees video, but I test in there. They’re like, I’ll do a short video just to see how everything looks.

[00:43:23] And then if I need to tweak something, I can do that. So it helps if you just give yourself a little test of something and then you’ll know what you’re going to look like. It’s not as scary. And also look at the camera. 

[00:43:36] Jeff Sieh: [00:43:36] The thing I would say is just I have a group, that’s a private thing that you can go and just yourself, see how it looks and record it and all that stuff.

[00:43:44] And then go, like Grace said to the next step, which would be to a group of friends and do it there. The other thing is, start we’re talking about all this entire show about how to really go, we’re going live everywhere to all different places, but we’re also recording it.

[00:43:59] And I, and then I chop it up. So one of the biggest things I see so many people, they get incredible guests like we have with peg today and they do it live. And then that’s it. There’s gold in what Pega said before. There’s all these great little bits that you can share out that people can find out about your show, find out about your company.

[00:44:16] And so I think as, more and more of these platforms are really pushing live video and video. Finding ways to do that, do it one time and go out a lot is going to be the key to your sanity because we can’t be there all the times. And these tools allow us to do that. I can tell oh, Carrie, over on YouTube thought, oh, that’s hilarious.

[00:44:37] A dead Armadillo. Grace is dead armadillo. 

[00:44:40] Grace Duffy: [00:44:40] That’s what I’m like when I’m doing pre recorded video, 

[00:44:43] Jeff Sieh: [00:44:43] Somebody in one of our Facebook groups saying Grace Duffy and Peg Fitzpatrick, has a prettiest necklace. I assume Jeff’s is hidden under his beard. So yeah, so it’s being able to interact, I think, is going to be key.

[00:44:53] But then also taking that the content and going out everywhere is going to be very, important as well. So our last segment, cause we only have a short amount of time and Dustin and some other people had hinted about this, but I wanted to talk about it because I think it’s very, helpful. And it’s just a test right now, but Instagram.

[00:45:11] Oh no. Yeah, let’s talk about that because forget what I was going to say. I want to talk about this –  badges. We don’t need no stinking badges. No. Tell us about the speed cause you have it. What are these Instagram badges that you speak of?

Instagram Badges for Instagram Live

[00:45:27] Peg Fitzparick: [00:45:27] So it’s like the Twitter tip jar. So there’s little badges that you can purchase on Instagram lives.

[00:45:35] If people have the feature and basically you can buy like one, two or three, it’s 99 cents or like a dollar or something like that and buying a bag. Pins your comments. So the creator will see it. So say for example, if Ryan Reynolds are on Instagram live, which I don’t think he does, but if you were like, Ryan, I know we’re married because you can, you retweet all my stuff.

[00:46:00] I know Blake is just for show. I get it. I’m okay with that. Just kidding. No, but especially the opportunity to connect with a person in a non-creepy way, you could buy a badge and it also, it helps them see your content, but also it supports the creator. So say for example, that I was going to do a special kind of manicure and I was gonna do an Instagram I’ve I honestly don’t even know if I could do one for manicure.

[00:46:27] I would probably be stressed about that, but I could because the little box that they give me the camera, where you can put that you can put your phone in there and film it, like they have it all set up so you can do it. So if I was going to do that and say it was going to take me an half hour, 45 minutes, You liked it, you could support that.

[00:46:43] Or if I was like giving a book review or sharing information on how to do something, you could just support your favorite creators by giving them badges. Now, the other side of that is it Facebook slash Instagram right now is paying people to go live. They’re rewarding people. And I think it’s right in the badges.


[00:47:06] I know, 

[00:47:07] Jeff Sieh: [00:47:07] Just to be clear, and this isn’t rolled out for everybody yet, or you have to have a certain amount of followers. This is just still a test. 

[00:47:13] Peg Fitzparick: [00:47:13] I don’t know if it’s followers. I don’t know how they chose. 

[00:47:17] Jeff Sieh: [00:47:17] But Peg got it. She’s being very modest, but she has badges and yeah, she can do all the fun stuff. Why is that?

[00:47:25] Peg Fitzparick: [00:47:25] I don’t know if it has to do with followers or verified or…

[00:47:30] Jeff Sieh: [00:47:30] Because they introduced this in May, 2020, and they were testing it about with a small group of creators like in the U S Brazil, all that. 

[00:47:40] Peg Fitzparick: [00:47:40] So, you can see it, if you want to check to see if you have it. I have a business account.

[00:47:44] So you have to have a business account. Maybe it’s in the creator account. I’m not sure, but there’s a button. There’s a little tab that says badges. You’re getting my light reflection. Sorry. And then from badges, there’s a little thing that says eligible and it has estimated earnings and it has like little badge milestones.

[00:48:03] So you can do a badge milestone. So they gave you one to co-host a live video, and then they will pay you. That’s just from Instagram and the badges. They’re not taking money out of that either. That will go a hundred percent to the person.

[00:48:17] Jeff Sieh: [00:48:17] So that bonus for going live in the badges. Do you think those are two separate things?

[00:48:21] I don’t think everybody has badges gets that bonus. Do they for going live right now? 

[00:48:27] Peg Fitzparick: [00:48:27] I think they’re tied together, but I’m not a hundred percent sure. I haven’t seen anybody else talking about that. Getting offered to be paid, to go live. I click on every little pop-up thing. I’m like, oh, what’s this?

[00:48:38] What’s that I didn’t get an email about it, nothing. 

[00:48:42] Jeff Sieh: [00:48:42] So, have you gone live and got badges yet? Have you tried it? 

[00:48:47] Peg Fitzparick: [00:48:47] I have gone live and I met one badge milestone, but I didn’t like, people don’t know what they are. So when you go live, you have to be like, Hey, there’s a little badge down there. If you want to support me. And I didn’t do that on my first one. 

[00:49:06] Jeff Sieh: [00:49:06] I’ve seen people do this and it’d be like, Hey, support me with my bags. And it was almost like an infomercial for them, but for you to buy my badge. So how would you suggest businesses or influencers do this in a non spammy way?

[00:49:24] Peg Fitzparick: [00:49:24] I guess it’s like putting the affiliate links when you’re Hey, like this support I’m here providing value for you. If you think. I don’t know, I didn’t do it. 

[00:49:35] Cause I was like, do I feel comfortable asking people to buy a badge to support me? And I was like, but I think the thing is you have to educate your audience. They don’t know what they are. So if you don’t tell people that they can do it, I think no one will do it. 

[00:49:47] also, Do you think people know what they are?

[00:49:50] Grace Duffy: [00:49:50] I would have no idea as a casual, if I was a casual user, I probably wouldn’t know what they are and I wouldn’t know how to use them or how to even get them to you or why I would get them.

[00:50:00] There’s to people that are on other platforms, like Twitch, it’s a natural thing, YouTube, like where that’s part of the culture and the platform it’s. But I don’t know that necessarily translates. I think they want it to, and they give you opportunities, but I don’t know. Maybe you just I get Jeff to send me a badge.

[00:50:18] They’re like, oh, a badge. Do you know what? Like

[00:50:25] Peg Fitzparick: [00:50:25] Send your friends money. Maybe you can pin it. I’ll try doing it. And I’ll pay, I’ll do a comment in it and say Hey, if you’re if you want to support me, you can buy a little badge, get a little badge, maybe you could do that. 

[00:50:38] Jeff Sieh: [00:50:38] Dustin says, yeah. Having to educate them is always a little bit awkward at first.

[00:50:41] But once it’s commonplace, you don’t even have to talk about anymore. This is what I think when you, when somebody gives you a bad. Yeah, it comes to the top of your feed and you’ll see it. And it stays there for a while. I would do it in a way. So I’m a big fan of Nick Nimmin. He does YouTube stuff on Saturday mornings.

[00:50:55] He’s a YouTube guy talks about in things and he does it very organically. He just says, Hey, if I don’t think you mentioned it, but what he does is he’ll answer those questions first. So if you have a big audience of people who are wanting to Peg, how do you do this? Peg how do you write a book? Peg, how do you get a badges on Instagram? And it’s just going by all the you could say something like, Hey I, answered iall the people who give me badges just an easy way for me to be able to, pull things out of the feed. If you want a hundred percent me to answer your question, this is what you do.

[00:51:27] That’s I think a very kind of standard way people are, used to that on. I do that all the time to get my question answer on Nick’s stream. I was like, I got a question. I will pay you five bucks. If you answered this. 

[00:51:39] Peg Fitzparick: [00:51:39] I think people would do that for Guy, for sure. Like they would want to be at the top of his questions and stuff.

[00:51:45] So it is really interesting. I’m sure that they’ll only do this thing for a while. Oh, I’ll have to start watching Twitch so I can yeah. Yeah. But I think that’s the thing is when it’s built in it’s there, people do it. Creators everywhere, it takes time and expertise that all of these things to make content to be a creator Zack King, Lord only knows how long he takes making his videos.

[00:52:14] It’s a long time.

[00:52:14] Jeff Sieh: [00:52:14] He’s got a big team and a big set. It’s just amazing the stuff he does. So we’re almost at a time, but I wanted to bring this up. This last piece of news is 


Instagram Tests Image and Video Uploads From the Desktop

Instagram tests uploading from desktop now paying, and I know we’re excited about this because we do a lot of stuff on our desktop. Somebody earlier said, yeah, I hate putting stuff on my phone.

[00:52:33] I lost that comment. But but that’s very, true. A lot of people are frustrated with trying to do everything on their, small little phone. So what they’re doing is Instagram has come a long, ways from just using it on their desktop mobile app. Now hopefully we’ll be able to schedule not only posts, but stories.

[00:52:53] Now, some of this you’ve been able to do through Facebook creator studio, like Peg showed me how to schedule my IGTV’s if you wanted to do that through creator studio. But they are launching their first live test of this, the capability to publish feed posts from the desktop version of the app with a small group of users are now able to access a full suite of upload and posting options.

[00:53:15] If you have that, let us know. Cause I’d love to know what you think this was spotted and shared by a social media guru, Matt Navarra, who always finds and gets everything. But I am very excited about that because if I can do it from my desktop that’s where I create a lot of images. That’s where I edit a lot of video, all that kind of stuff.

[00:53:34] So Peg, are you excited about that? 

[00:53:36] Peg Fitzparick: [00:53:36] Totally. And also, I wonder if Instagram will open it. In live stream through Restream. They want to push video, but one thing you can’t do is you can’t get, you can’t do anything through any other apps. So it makes it more awkward. We did actually a big thing. Guy did a big thing with Facebook and they wanted to do it on Instagram live.

[00:54:00] And I think a little bit more awkward than they even thought they were like, oh, this is a little hard because it is a little bit hard. 

[00:54:06] Jeff Sieh: [00:54:06] Yeah. So like Carrie goes, oh my gosh, I love if they go to desktop. Yeah. So I think it’s coming. So hang on to your 

[00:54:13] Peg Fitzparick: [00:54:13] horses 

[00:54:15] I have badges. but not on my desktop. I think if they want people to do more video, they got it let you fricking do it on a desktop. Come on. 

[00:54:23] Jeff Sieh: [00:54:23] And Dustin goes, what is the IG iPad app? Yes, preach it, brother. I would love to have the iPad app as well. One of the cool things though, you mentioned, I would love it if they open up their API for for the live video, because Ecamm is really cool because you can actually stream in vertical video.

[00:54:39] And then just think if you could stream that out everywhere with Restream. That would be a marriage made in heaven. So Instagram, if you’re listening, give us API access, please. 

[00:54:50] Grace Duffy: [00:54:50] I think I get asked that question about every week we do a we do a live demo every other week at Restream and we get asked that question every time and I’m like the minute they allow it, we will be there.

[00:55:02] We’re ready. Prepared emotionally, like we’re ready for it. 

[00:55:08] Jeff Sieh: [00:55:08] So Sabrina says she found it. So Sabrina, I would love it. If you take a screenshot of that, where you found it at and let us see that, because I would love to let people know what it looks like behind the Instagram curtain. So with that, this always is amazing.

[00:55:25] Peg, thank you so much for being here. I would love to tell everybody where they can find you what you’re up to. All the good stuff, Peg Fitzpatrick. 

[00:55:36] Peg Fitzparick: [00:55:36] I’m working on my second book right now which is very exciting. 

[00:55:39] Jeff Sieh: [00:55:39] That’s really cool. That’s really cool. 

[00:55:41] Peg Fitzparick: [00:55:41] Yeah, it was exciting. It is exciting. So I’m working on that.

[00:55:45] It’s for small businesses and you can find me at my blog, Or Peg Fitzpatrick everywhere. I’m around I’m on Instagram. Pinterest. You name it.

[00:55:57] I try to avoid Facebook. That’s about it. But thank you guys for having me. It was super fun. 

[00:56:09] Jeff Sieh: [00:56:09] Thank you guys for all your great questions, grace, where can we find out more about all things Grace Duffy? 

[00:56:15] Grace Duffy: [00:56:15] You can find all things great stuffy over at the restraint channels. I I manage our YouTube channel. So follow us at or Restream actually on YouTube. You can find us there. We also have an amazing Facebook group. You just look up restream community on Facebook and we were there.

[00:56:33] So we’ve got everyone from pros to just beginners. If you’re getting started with live video, interested in live video, want to up scale your live video efforts, join that group and you’ll find a great person. Yeah, 

[00:56:46] Jeff Sieh: [00:56:46] I was so excited to have peg at the beginning of the show. I forgot to let everybody know if they would like to get reminded about this show and how to online, they can text us at 903-287-9088 that’s 903-287-9088

[00:56:59] that allows me. Oh, it’s no spam. I just let you know reminders when we go live the way to get past those pesky algorithms that we all don’t like very much. So 903-287-9088 as always. We are a podcast we’d love for you guys to go over there. Give us a rating and review on your phone. Favorite podcast player you could subscribe for free on apple podcasts, Google play Stitcher, all those places.

[00:57:22] And with that, I’m going to thank you guys. We’ll see you next week. Same time, same channel. Bye everybody. 

[00:57:27] Grace Duffy: [00:57:27] Bye everyone. Thank you. 



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