SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Hello folks. Welcome to Creator News Live.

I’m Jeff c and you’re not.

Paul Gowder: And I’m Paul Gatter, and this is the show that keeps you up to date with what’s happening in the world of the creator economy and so much more.

Jeff Sieh: You ever tried running Facebook ads and felt, you know, a little, out of your depth? Are you wondering which of meta’s shiny new AI tools actually work for small businesses? Or maybe you’re ready to take your ad strategy beyond just boosting posts? but really aren’t sure where to start. If that sounds familiar, you are in the right place because today we’re talking with my good friend Amanda Robinson about Facebook ads because she knows them inside and out.

She’s helped thousands of business owners cut through the confusion and create campaigns that deliver real results. So she’s gonna be sharing her journey through all of this, Facebook learning her strategies and her best advice for making ads work in 2025. So, sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind to get ready for this week’s episode of Creator News Live.

Amanda, how are you doing today? I,

Amanda Robinson: I am wonderful. I’m happy to see your smiling faces, and I’m really happy to have the opportunity to geek out [00:01:00] on Facebook and Instagram ads with you today.

Jeff Sieh: yeah, this is gonna be fun because it is very, a lot of people are, are really scared about this, but,Paul, I’ll let you take it away with Amanda’s official introduction.

Paul Gowder: Yeah, yeah, it is overwhelming. So Amanda, we’re excited to to hear what you have to say, but Amanda is the powerhouse behind the digital gal. She’s a meta certified lead trainer, Facebook ad strategist, international speaker, and co-author of The Ultimate Guide to Social Media Marketing. She’s known for her engaging high impact teaching style.

Amanda helps business owners cut through the chaos of meta ads with her Swift kick in the ads membership, love the name, and custom trainings, whether she’s speaking on stage consulting with clients, or running workshops for business owners. She brings clarity, creativity, and those aha moments that make meta ads finally make sense.

If you’ve ever felt lost in Meta Business Suite every day, Amanda is the guy that you didn’t know you needed. So welcome.

Amanda Robinson: Thank you very, very much. Thank you so much.

Jeff Sieh: And so I’ll put this too, because if you ever see Amanda speak, at a conference, she’s amazing. Like even, you [00:02:00] know, I’ve, I’ve talked with her in the hallways. I’ve seen her, do presentations. She’s really, really good. So if you need that sort of thing. Make sure you reach out to Amanda and make sure to put all that information also in the show notes.

So we’re gonna kick it off just right off the bat, Amanda, because Facebook ads could be a little overwhelming even at the beginning, but now they’ve added kind of another layer with these AI tools. And I wanna talk about leveraging the AI tools without losing like your human touch in this because, as more and more of the AI stuff comes out, I mean, Chachi VT just rolled out, version five yesterday.

More stuff is coming down the pike. so I kinda wanna talk about the AI hype versus the reality. So AI is supposed to revolutionize Facebook advertising, but you kind of noted, I think it was in Mike Alton’s,podcast that he did for a Pulse, which is an amazing episode you all need to check out.

But you said it’s kind of in its clunky teenage phase. so in practical terms, where are these new AI driven features actually helping marketers, and where do they still need maybe a little work without [00:03:00] human input?

Amanda Robinson: So to kind of package this, package this in a way that’s easy to understand. Imagine if you’re an advertiser and you’re just comfortable at clicking the Boost Post button and you don’t really know what you’re doing and you have traditionally hit the Boost post button and relied on me tools to deliver those ads.

And you have a whole bunch of people saying, well, meta ads don’t work for me. Or, the Boost post is wasting your money. Meta’s AI tools are going to really help you navigate through that at the level of what a professional advertiser would be doing. So Meta’s AI tools are really taking the, the load of the heavy lifting to be more strategic.

So that’s the plus. I do wanna specify that we have kind of two. Compartments of talking about META’S AI tools as it pertains to advertising. So you have Meta has their llama, LLM, you can chat with it the exact same way that you could chat with chat GBT. it can learn about you. You can upload documents, you can you could do everything with it and you can access it on desktop or on mobile.

It’s very easy [00:04:00] to use. So there’s that version of AI with meta. But as it pertains to advertising, when we’re looking at it through the lens of the advertising landscape, you have Meta’s Advantage plus suite of tools. So if you’re navigating anywhere through creating an ad and you see anything that says Advantage Plus, whether that’s Advantage Plus Creative or Advantage Plus Budget, advantage Plus Placements, advantage Plus audience, all of these Advantage plus tools, that’s ai.

That’s ai that’s gonna kick in and do some of that heavy lifting for you. And yes, it is in its clunky teenage phase on the advertising platform at the moment. I love meta advertising. I love teaching, businesses how to use it for themselves. And I love inspiring people how to use it in a positive way.

So I don’t like speaking negative about anything meta advertising, and I’m not speaking negative about AI relating to med meta advertising, but I’m definitely gonna be calling out where it just still needs a little more time to tweak and integrate into the existing tools that we’re already using. So imagine [00:05:00] having software that’s launched and live and millions of people are using it and then trying to push live updates into it and just like hope it works.

It’s, it’s more complex than that. And so while we’ve been watching Meta rapidly integrate new meta AI tools throughout the advertising, ads manager and through the backend of advertising. There have been some hiccups. That is for sure. So we, any of any, anyone of you out there who have been advertising lately and have seen results dip or been frustrated?

I feel you. I’m here with you. We’re all in the same boat, and don’t worry, hang in there. I think we’re going to see a giant Leap in, ineffectiveness pretty soon.

Jeff Sieh: So real quick question. This is a follow up, Paul, then I’ll let you get to yours. the question I have is, so you mentioned up, so I haven’t created any ads since the new AI stuff. That’s how, that’s why the show is great for me. so the question I have, you mentioned uploading and it learns about you using the their llama thing.

Does that have any crossover into ads? Like, will it know me and my business, like, you know, [00:06:00] if I have that memory in chat GBT, well ads remember that if I’m starting to create new ads or not, or is that totally separate?

Amanda Robinson: For the purpose of how it’s functioning right now, we’re gonna say those things are separate. So there, yeah, so what you’re, what you can use, meta’s ai separately to help create your images or to create your ad copy. same way that you would use other tools like Chat, GBT or any of your other AI tools.

So you can use that and then extract from there and then go into Meta’s ad platform, upload your information. But where I do find that Meta’s AI is really helping a lot of businesses is. Meta really needs a large volume of creative to make your ads successful. So think about it this way, instead of creating a single ad and putting that one ad out there with your ad text and your link, that it’s going to imagine taking that ad and making 10 different variations.

And then imagine giving your text five different variations and five different headlines, and tweaking your call to action so that Meta’s AI can mix and match these things. So think about it, where that one ad. Is the one ad concept, [00:07:00] but it might have lots of different variants of images and lots of different variants of texts that are accompanying that.

So that’s where Meta’s built in AI tools for AI creative is coming in really handy where Meta’s going to be suggesting some headlines for you and suggesting some other primary text variants based on where you’re sending that traffic to historically what you’ve been saying in your ads. so it’s going to be taking that information and learning from that and helping you craft better ad copy and better headlines, but.

It’s still clunky. So when I say better headlines and better, it can, sometimes I, I look at the suggestions. I’m like, oh, meta, that was good. Yes, I’ll take that please. I’ll take two of those. And then other times I’m like, where are you pulling this from? Did you wake up drunk today?

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Amanda Robinson: It’s, it depends. It depends.

So it’s really good for inspiration, for helping you craft alternate variations. And it’s really helpful for helping business owners understand that you do need a high volume of creative and you need multiple creative [00:08:00] variations. Think of these like all like puzzle pieces. You have control over some of these puzzle pieces, but you’re basically handing them all over to meta and saying, okay, you go assemble the puzzle for me.

I’ve given you the, the, the basics, but you’re gonna put it together and you’re gonna mix and match this in a whole bunch of different ways to attract my audience in the best way that meta, you know, possible. And it does work. We need to, as advertisers, we really have to learn to sort of let go of that perfectionism and that control that we used to have over our ads.

So, for example, when meta’s ai, advantage Plus creative started creeping in and sprinkling into the system. People would have headlines or texts that all of a sudden meta would slap on top of their image in a big brown banner that had no connection to their brand colors. And the clients would see this and they’d freak out and say, what are you doing?

Like, are you new? Is it your first day advertising? Get that down. I don’t want this. But by allowing meta to have these variations and allowing them to mix and match these puzzle pieces and and assemble things [00:09:00] in different ways, whether it’s putting an enhanced headline on something, whether it’s allowing it to expand your images or enhance your images, or crop your images, or add music onto things, what you’re essentially doing is allowing meta more of a runway to.

Place those ads in more placements where your potential audience is. So if your ads aren’t properly formatted for the different placements, for example, reels or the Facebook video feed or marketplace or newsfeed or Instagram newsfeed, if your ads aren’t properly formatted for those places than they’re considered lower quality, and if an ad is lower quality, it can’t compete head-to-head in the auction against other advertisers also going after your same audience.

So if your lo, if your ads are considered low qua quality, they’re not winning, or if they are delivering, they’re costing you so much more money anyway. So me is trying to do you a favor, they’re trying to repackage up these ads with the, with what you’ve given them, and they’re trying to get you in front of more people where those people are.

In those placements. So it’s formatted in a way where people are more likely to engage. [00:10:00] It just might not look the way that you think it should look or it might not reflect your brand exactly how you want it to. And I’m saying yet, ’cause I still feel like these tools are in rapid evolution right now.

And we will get there. But right now right now I’ve got examples of where it’s kind of gone rogue. So,

Jeff Sieh: Right. Gotcha. Gotcha.

Paul Gowder: Well, so I wanna ask about the Advantage Plus thing one, I remember creating the ads a few years ago. It was awesome because all the targeting, you could build this really customized audience. But now with Advantage Plus, I’m hearing that we’d need need to let trust Meta to create the audience and find the audience for us.

So can you give examples of where you think that really works? And like for creators out there, how do we kind of navigate letting AI find our audience versus, you know, really wanting to target our audience?

Amanda Robinson: what you’re talking about is, Meta’s ai audiences essentially Advantage plus audiences. What Meta is doing is it’s using everything from your picture, the image or video that you’re uploading, and it can [00:11:00] contextually understand what is in that image or video. If you have a picture of a woman and a dog, it understands what’s happening in that.

Image or that video, and then it’s looking at the text that you’re supplying. And it’s also looking at the landing pages or the destinations where you are sending people, and it’s reading that information too. So it’s taking all of this information into account and saying, well, based on what I’m seeing here, this is your ideal audience over here.

And it is making that connection for you and delivering your ads to people who are most likely to respond. So where that’s critical is if you are a brand and say for example, I’ll give you some real estate examples right now, we’re trying to reach people that are say 45 plus. But if you have pictures of young children playing, these ads are starting to skew to a much younger audience.

And when we are working in real estate, we’re we fall under a special ads category, that prevents us from discriminating. Meaning we can’t choose our age range. We can’t choose to deliver to a certain age. So we really have to rely on our creative to do the heavy lifting, to [00:12:00] show the system and the algorithm and the AI who we’re trying to connect with and, and really rely heavily on our creative to do our targeting.

Now, whereas back in the day, way back in the day when it was the wild, wild west of targeting, we could say, I want this specifically to go to, you know, people of this income level who live in this zip code and who have an interest in this type of housing. We used to be able to do that. We can’t do that anymore.

So that’s a real estate specific example, but that also somewhat pertains now to almost all businesses and all niches right? Now. What I mean by that is. Our advertising tactics, this, this, I would say this shift has happened in about the last year. A year ago, we could still kind of go in and use our interest-based targeting, our behavior-based targeting and really get granular and fine tune our, our target audiences.

And we’d have multiple different audiences that we’d be testing and running against each other at the same time. Now it feels like the more that you try to specify and narrow in on exactly what you [00:13:00] want, the more the system’s like, you know what, let me, you know what? Click this little checkbox. We’re just gonna expand your audience for you anyway.

Like, go ahead. We’re just gonna, you know what? You don’t even have to click it. We’ve automatically turned it on. Oh, you turned off that checkbox. ’cause you don’t wanna expand it, but then you click back a screen and came back again. We turned it on for you Again. They’re just automatically expanding these audiences.

And I believe part of that is that you’re competing for attention span. And attention span is flip-flopping on lots of different platform choices right now. People can spend their time on lots of different social media platforms and they’ve all got skin in the game. So in order to keep the attention span.

On META’S platforms, the content has to be very high quality. So when it comes to reaching your audiences, the more narrow and more specific you’re going, you’re probably going very specific the same way. Another advertiser is going very specific the same way. Another advertiser is going very specific, and you’re all competing for a high quality, super expensive audience in high quality placements.

Not all of us are gonna win. So Meta is [00:14:00] trying to spread that out and allow AI to start taking over some of that work. And let me put it this way. AI is helping most advertisers in this arena, because most advertisers are, are not experts in layering on their audiences and figuring out how to use the system to get exactly the audience they want.

Advertisers who have been doing this for years and years and years, absolutely. We’ve got our audiences dialed in. We know what we want, we know how to work the system, but the majority of advertisers coming on this system are business owners like you and me, and people who don’t live inside the backend of Facebook ads like I do every day.

So most people, it’s a guessing game. They’re like, I don’t know, I think this is a target audience I could go after. I could go after that too. Well, maybe I’ll go after these people too. And before you know it, they’ve just, it’s a, it’s a jumbled mess of who they think they’re targeting. So Meta’s, ai, the ai, Advantage Plus targeting is kind of stepping in and going, you know what, you just sit down. I got you. Let me, let me help you [00:15:00] get this in front of the right people and it’ll be fine. So for the majority of businesses out there, Meta’s AI is helping you big time. And it’s wonderful for some of us other advertisers though, that have more specific strategies that we need to execute on to manage our budgets.

It’s, it’s kind of throwing us for a loop right now. I’ll give you an example where, recently I talked to somebody, one of the members in Swift Kick in the ads, and she was working with a client where their product needs to go in front of teenage girls. That’s who their target audience is, and that’s who they’re selling to.

So they set up their ads and they’re asking to target women. So it’s very clear they’re setting up to target women.

so Meta’s AI targeting kicks in and is like, you know what? I know you asked for females. You wanna deliver this to females? We’re just gonna deliver it to everybody. And all of a sudden, a bunch of males are clicking on it.

So now that engagement is, is leading everything astray. And now all of those ads started delivering to men. Well, they’re not selling to men. It’s useless. Sales are dipping, ad costs are rising, everything isn’t [00:16:00] working the way it’s supposed to. But when you look at the ad setup, the advertiser set everything up properly, but meta just kicked in that little a advantage plus AI targeting.

It’s like, we’re gonna help you. Like you’re not helping, you’re really not helping. So that’s, that’s an example of where it’s we’ve taken our traditional advertising skills that have always been working for a long time and all of a sudden met us throwing a big wrench in it with ai. That’s one example.

But then you have other advertisers that are jumping on the platform, don’t have a lot of experience, and all of a sudden they are advertising at a level that an expert consultant who you have to pay thousands of dollars to get on the platform and help you meta’s. AI is stepping in and is able to achieve that for some advertisers, for some businesses, I’m sure it will be a lot more useful and helpful as we’re all on this AI journey together.

Jeff Sieh: Well, I have some follow up questions to that, but I wanted to bring up really quick our a, uh, amazing, audience. Chris Stone says better options, less, taking shots in the dark still needs human judgment. So that is very, very true. And then, very helpful [00:17:00] tool for Mr. Jones. Here is spot on

Amanda Robinson: Giran is one of my, fellow certified meta lead trainers who also travels all over North America teaching and speaking on behalf of Meta as well as, with his own business. So I’m, he’s, he’s, he’s a brilliant mind in this exact same space. So if you don’t know Giran, go and follow him. He is wonderful.

Jeff Sieh: have two amazing people on. That’s a, that’s all, that’s, that’s just a win all around. so real quick, I wanted to, you guys, as we’re going along, if you have questions about, meta ads, make sure you ask them. ’cause I will hug all of Amanda’s time asking him my own questions. And I know Paul feels the same way.

One of the questions that when you were talking, when you’re saying that AI is trying to level the playing field for everybody, and as it gets better, it’s going to do that. So you’re not competing against those really expensive, you know, ads. If it’s leveling it for everybody, what’s gonna set it apart down the road when it’s really, really, really good?

Is it going to come down to your creative assets? Like you have, you’ve crafted the perfect image? ’cause I’m kind of trying to think in the future, if everybody’s trying to get leveled out, then how are you going to [00:18:00] be up there in the feed?

Paul Gowder: Mm-hmm.

Amanda Robinson: I love this question because I feel like AI is finally shining a spotlight on the reality of what it takes to run a business. If you run a good business and you provide a great service, you have wonderful customers and you are doing great things, you’re, you’re going to be successful, you’re going to do well.

AI is going to help accelerate all of that feedback and all of these wonderful things that you’re doing. When it comes to Facebook or Instagram advertising, one of the things I say to clients or people who approach me is that. I can only help you amplify what’s working. If you come to me with something that’s broken, I’m gonna amplify it.

We’re gonna uncover it real quick, and you’re gonna spend a lot of money to find out something in your system isn’t working properly, or this thing that you’re trying to sell maybe isn’t selling the best, or we’re gonna try to spotlight on it real quick once we start amplifying. So if you run a good business, when you start amplifying, these things are just going to continue amplifying for you and you’re going to continue to see success.

But for those businesses who have happened to have had some digital marketing [00:19:00] skills, and they’re really good at dancing around the digital marketing landscape and convincing you, you need this product, or This is something I can sell to you, but at the end of the day, the business isn’t great, the product isn’t great, the the reviews aren’t wonderful.

We don’t really need this product. It was a little bit of a fad that came and went. I think those businesses are going to get that spotlight, Sean, on them, and they’re going to get phased out. I think AI in, as it pertains to advertising, when I say it’s leveling the playing field, I think what it’s going to do is really lift up those businesses that are doing great work and have always been doing great work.

And I think it’s going to expose businesses that have been using fancy tools to, you know, to

yeah,

Jeff Sieh: yeah.

Amanda Robinson: to hoodwink us into purchasing things we don’t need or don’t want or aren’t a great product. So I think that’s going to be like, I’m not, I’m not worried or concerned about it and I’m also not, I was asked recently if, if I’m worried about AI replacing what I do, for example, [00:20:00] and.

I’ve always said, I’m not gonna be doing Facebook ads forever. Facebook ads aren’t always going to be a thing forever, but Meta as a company is evolving, new tools are rolling out. You’ve Jeff, you’ve known me for years. How many wearables have I had over the years from Snapchat, spectacles version one and two to now the Meta RayBan Glasses version one and two.

Now with ai, AI is being integrated into our wearables, and I believe we’re gonna see a future rolling through with that. And as businesses, as marketers, we’re going to need to learn tactics and ways to adopt that into our workflow or into how we interact with customers. So I believe that Meta’s advertising landscape isn’t gonna look the way it has for the last decade.

We’re going to evolve and change, and I hope I get phased out of doing exactly what I’m doing. And I hope that I get to grow with these platforms and grow with these tools and just grow with businesses and help them as I always have been. It just looks, looks different whatever year you’re in.

Jeff Sieh: that’s right. That’s [00:21:00] a great, a great, uh, way to say it. So yeah, thank you. Because that was, I was like, okay, if it’s gonna be level, then, you know, it’s the question, no matter what type of thing for ai, like, okay, how is this gonna look? And so thanks for that. That was really, that was really spot on.

Paul Gowder: Yeah. And Giron has a good question. So you mentioned real estate, some of these restricted areas, politics, finance. So how do we navigate that with within ads.

Amanda Robinson: So. When it comes, AI isn’t really influencing that much at all at the moment. We’re still kinda using the same tactics we always have to, you can’t circumvent the special ads categories. And these special ads categories prevent discrimination by, eliminating your ability to choose age or gender. you can’t target tighter than a 15 mile radius around a certain area.

You can’t target by zip code or postal code. And it strips out so much. I, I would almost say 90% of the detailed targeting options that regular advertisers would have. So it really does strip out a lot of our ability to fine tune the targeting. and in the past when I worked with realtors or anybody under a special ads [00:22:00] category, essentially what I say is we need to start your advertising really broad.

We’re gonna blanket it out to a very broad audience. But if people are interested in what we have to offer, they’re going to engage with us and interact. Those engagements come in the form of likes, clicks, comments, shares, reactions, video views, something proactive. Well, we can build our retargeting audiences around anyone who is engaged with our pages.

And as of the time of this recording, that’s why it’s so important that you’re using a Facebook business page or a, an Instagram, business profile. and not just using a Facebook page that’s in professional mode. Even though you can’t advertise on those now, you still need a business page for audience building and you need an ad account associated with that.

So with those two things, we can accumulate an audience of anyone who’s engaged with your content,from the business perspective, and we can retarget them. So if you have a special ads category, retargeting has been your superpower over the years. Attract people with, very broad content that [00:23:00] attracts your target audience, and then just retarget them with your listings, retarget them with your additional content, retarget them with your offers, and it’s been really successful that way.

So I’m never scared by the special ads category. It’s just like, oh, extra step. Cool. We got this. But ai, what AI is doing is. I would say let’s not focus necessarily on a special ads category for AI and how that’s working. The question that does come up all the time are lookalike audiences. So back in the day, lookalike audiences used to be all the rage.

And what that is, is taking an example of people who have engaged with you or people who have visited your website, or people who have opened a lead form and not filled it out or filled it out. People who have taken a specific action that we’re tracking and going to meta and saying, Hey, can you take these people that are doing the thing I want them to do and go find more people just like that.

Go find a lookalike of people just like that for me. So we’d have to create these lookalike audiences. We had to supply the source data or telemed what source data we want it to build off of. And the look-alike audience was only as good as the quality of the data we were [00:24:00] giving it. Meta’s AI audiences right now are essentially a big built-in, baked in look-alike.

Already. So when you are asking meta to do advertising, it’s already looking at your pixel that you have on your website, who’s been clicking on your, on your content, who’s been engaging with your content, who’s interacted with it, your landing page. Think about it this way. you, you might fall under, let’s pretend you’re in real estate.

’cause that’s a pretty broad, broad term. let’s say you’re in real estate and you have a Facebook Pixel on your website. Well, if you’re trying to target other people also interested in real estate, how many other realtors out there have a pixel on a Facebook pixel on their website? Thousands of them.

Millions. So when you’re saying, Hey, go find me. People who are interested in real estate meta knows all the other users from the platform who’ve also been clicking on other real estate pages as well. So it take, it can take that information and then help get your ads in front of the right people without you having to tell it specifically, Hey, go and go and find me [00:25:00] these exact people.

It’s always been, it’s always. Had abilities to do to do that. That’s why having pixels has been very useful and helpful. And that’s why having an ad account that you’ve been running ads through for a long time and training it who your target audience is and having those interactions take place on your content helps train everything so that over time your advertising gets way more dialed in compared to if you just opened up a new ad account today and slapped a bunch of money on it, said, why am I not competing against my competitors right now?

It doesn’t work that way. But Meta’s ai, advantage Plus targeting is really helping us. It’s almost replacing lookalike audiences and just skipping a bunch of those steps and just helping us get there a lot faster. It’s just not perfect yet. That’s all. But are any of us.

Jeff Sieh: No, no, it was perfect. So that’s a, so, one of the things I wanted to ask you, ’cause you mentioned, you know, having it, it’ll, it’ll create all these different assets for you and you know, it’s gonna test all these different headlines and all that thing. You [00:26:00] used to be able to go to like a competitor’s Facebook page and go look at the ads they’re running.

Are you seeing all the variations that the AI is putting out there if you go and do that? Or are you sent, are you like, will it show the, the focus on the first one? Like how does that work when you go and do some competitive things?

Amanda Robinson: So you’re talking about Metas, Facebook Ads Library. Anybody can go into the METAS ads library, search up any Facebook page, and see if they’re running ads. Or, the other way to do it is to actually go to your competitor’s Facebook page and you click on their page Transparency, and then there’s an option to see, it’s under their about page transparency and see if they’re running ads.

And if they are, can take you directly to the ads library and you can see them. It’s just going to give you the kind of what I call like the standard preview, which is like the newsfeed preview. So it’s gonna show you what it might look like in the Facebook newsfeed, and you’ll also see little icons to tell you if it’s running on Facebook, Instagram, the audience network.

And now we have, we have threads, targeting now, which is wonderful. Or placements, sorry, so you’ll be able [00:27:00] to see. For the most part, when I go to the Ads library to check out what other advertisers are doing, for the most part, if I see a whole bunch of ads that look similar, they’ve just started running in the last month, and they have all those little target icons tells me they’re probably doing all placements.

They’re letting the system decide what’s working and what’s not, and there’s no indicator to me of if those ads are being successful for them. And I really want everyone listening to this to understand, just because a competitor is running an ad and you see it in the ads library does not mean it’s working for them.

Okay. They’re experimenting just as much as you’re experimenting. They’re throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks just as much as you are. Right. But do pay attention if they’ve had ads that have been running for multiple months and then they have new ones as well. ’cause that says, Hey, this is working enough that we’re hanging onto it, but we’re continuing to mount new ones.

But if you go in and see a competitor or an advertiser who has kind of set it and forget it, they’ve had the same ad running since December 20, 24 and hasn’t touched it.

Jeff Sieh: [00:28:00] Right.

Amanda Robinson: Take that as a sign too. It’s not necessarily that it’s working, they just, they haven’t,

Jeff Sieh: throwing money

at it. Yeah.

Amanda Robinson: Yeah.

Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. So kind of the last question in this section, I think this kind of, what you just said, moves into this is for a small business owner, which of the of Meta’s AI powered ad features would you recommend that they take advantage of right now?

Amanda Robinson: It is not necessarily which one you’re going to take advantage of. Which one works for you, which one to choose. They’re all baked into the system right now. So they, they all just have a fancy label, anything called Advantage Plus, just know that’s when it’s meta’s ai kind of helping you out along the way.

if meta has a recommendation, generally for most advertisers starting out, take Meta’s recommendations. If it wants you to turn on all placements, turn on all placements. If it wants you to expand your audience, expand your audience, follow their best practices to start, but look at your results of your ads.

Spot check them. I call it babysitting the ads. Within 24 hours of the ads running, go and look at the results and say, are these hitting [00:29:00] men or women? Are they hitting my target age? Are the placements good? If I look at my placements and it’s a hundred percent in Facebook marketplace, and your ad is this tiny little postage stamp and has no context with it.

Is that helping my business so spot? Check them, babysit them right outta the gate, and if it’s not working for you in with meta’s recommendations, then either create a new campaign and tweak those settings and say, you know what? I’m gonna go and edit my placements and take out marketplace or edit my placements placements and take out audience network, which I would recommend doing regardless.

But anyway, so yeah, you do, you do have some control for the most part if you’re just starting out advertising or if it’s been a while since you’ve dusted off the ads and gotten back in there. Meta does have your best interests at at heart. They do want you to be successful. They do want you coming back to the platform and spending money and putting out high quality ads to connect with your audiences.

It’s a win-win for everybody. So these tools are meant to help you for the most part. [00:30:00] everything from a, all of the different advantage. Plus things like Advantage plus Creative Advantage plus, budget, which used to be campaign budget optimization. all, all of it’s kind of already built in and already there to help you and already switched on in the system.

So you don’t really have to do anything. It’s just a matter of being a little more responsible right now with your ads. While we’re in that awkward teenage phase of ai, of taking the time to go and look at the results as you’re running the ads to say, is this working? Is this not? Rather than hit the publish button and walk away for a week, coming back and going, I don’t know why it didn’t work, I just wasted money.

So we just need to be a little more vigilant right now.

Jeff Sieh: Gotcha. Something about being vigilant. I forgot to, at the very start of the show, say, thank you to our amazing sponsor, Ecamm. You can find out more about them at Ecamm dot com slash jeff. You can say 15% by using code Jeff 15 for your first purchase. they are what makes this show happen. They are amazing.

And by the way, they have their camp coming up soon. I think there’s a few tickets left. You can find out more at [00:31:00] Ecamm dot com slash camp. Paul, are you, you’re gonna be there, aren’t you? This year? So, yeah. So a lot of my friends, Amanda’s been there before

Amanda Robinson: I’m devastated that I won’t be there this year. I’ve gone the last, the, the last two years that they’ve, they’ve had it and it’s been one of the most amazing events ever. But this year I’m going to be in Peru during that time.

Jeff Sieh: Well, we’ll let you have a pass on that one. But by the way, um, they opened up, they’re doing a camp in the UK next year too, so that will be a fun one as well. So, they’re amazing people. Ecamm dot com slash Jeff, go check them out because it’s just a great community, a great piece of software to help you do things like this, but not just live shows.

You can also do videos for YouTube, whatever you need to do using Ecamm. So, make sure to check that out. Alright, Paul, I know we’re moving on to this published measure and adjust. We’re gonna get in some nitty gritty things here, so take it away.

Paul Gowder: Yeah. So let’s talk about somebody who’s just starting out and, you know, I, I, I’m in business manager every day and I’m still overwhelmed. So what advice do you have for people starting their first campaign? Or should they start with a boost? Should they start with, you know, engagement [00:32:00] campaign?

A traffic, like how do we get our feet wet and do an ad that’s gonna get, get results when we first

start?

Amanda Robinson: love this question. there’s nothing wrong with boosting a post. I really wanna be clear on that. There is nothing wrong with boosting a post. I call it the training wheels of Facebook ads or Instagram ads. You can hit the promote post button over there. They all go to the same place. It creates an ad in the same place.

So you can go into your ads manager and still see all the ads that you boosted or ads that you created from scratch. It functionally creates the exact same thing. So there’s nothing wrong with boosting a post, but it’s a great way to dip your toes in the water without having a big commitment and without having to make 300 million decisions.

So think about, think about, boosting post like the training wheels. But once we move over into using Ads Manager, think about that. Like a jet engine, it’s a little more complex. We have a lot more tools at our disposal and it can really supercharge our ability to. Connect with our audience and get ads in front of the right people.

So [00:33:00] Ads Manager can sometimes be a little overwhelming for a first time advertiser because it gives you too many choices and it gives you too many choices at every stage of the game. So I like to, I, I use a lot of analogies and the way I like to describe meta advertising is like an organizational chart in a business.

So imagine in a business you have a CEO at the very top, and they make the big decisions of what the company is doing. So when your ads, when you’re advertising, that’s what your campaign is. You choose your objective. What are we trying to do with these ads? Are we trying to get traffic to our website?

Are we trying to get people to engage? Are we trying to get them to fill out a lead form? What’s that CEO big decision? That’s our objective. Once you choose that. Now we move down the organizational chart and you get into your department managers, department managers in a company usually get to manage things like how much budget their department gets to spend, what their schedules look like.

and in this case, what your placements look like. Where are these ads gonna show up? So your department managers are, you call your ad sets, and then underneath those ad sets, [00:34:00] reporting into those ad sets are your employees, and those are your ads. The employees don’t get to make those decisions. They don’t get to make any strategic decisions.

They just show up, interface with the public and carry out the work. And sometimes you have employees that are really good at performing and sometimes you have employees that are not. So sometimes you have ads that are really good performers, and sometimes you have ads that are not. You can fire them and let them go, and you can take all that budget and you can give it to the ads that are performing well.

That’s what the power of Ads Manager gives us the ability to do. If you’re boosting a post behind the scenes, it’s creating that one CEO one department manager and one employee. How do you know if that one employee is a top performer or a low performer? You’ve got nothing to compare it to. So you’re kind of like blindly hoping this is gonna go well.

Whereas if you’re using Ads Manager, you have more control over saying, you know what I want, I’ve got one objective, but I have two different audiences that I wanna send this to. And we’re gonna tweak the placements. For example, I might have one ad set that’s going to [00:35:00] Facebook only and one ad set that’s going to Instagram only.

And then you have different ad creative reporting into those ad sets that you have a little more control over. And over time the budget is going to roll over onto the ads that are higher performers and it’s gonna restrict the budget off of the ones that are lower performers. So you budget can be a lot more efficient using Ads Manager and being more strategic about it versus just boosting a post.

And what I tell people is. If you are boosting posts, it adds up quick. Like pretend you boosted a post for $25 this week and $25 next week, and then $25 a week after. If you’re spending more than 250 a month on ads, 250 to 500 a month and you’re boosting posts, it’s time to get into Ads Manager. It’s time to start making all of those dollars work for you.

Not some of those dollars work for you. So again, I really wanna stress, there’s nothing wrong with boosting a post. It gets you a little more comfortable with the concept of advertising. It gets you in front of people and it’s a really good tool that doesn’t overwhelm you and make you pull your hair [00:36:00] out and go, I can’t do this.

I assure you you can do this. But as manager is where you need to graduate into for sure.

Jeff Sieh: that is one of the best explanations I’ve heard. That’s gonna be a YouTube clip right there. That’s great. I, Amanda, thank you for that. That was good. I do wanna talk about really quick be and get really practical. I like to do this ’cause Paul and I run a mastermind. A lot of, what we’re working through right now is creating a tiny offer and then that is, you know, we’re using Facebook ads to boost that, to get that out to people.

Paul really likes to use, lead ads. Is that correct, Paul? Is that what you’re like to use? so can you talk about like. The best way for small business owners to find, you know, do all this stuff and, and set it up correctly right from the get go. You mentioned the importance of landing pages because actually Facebook goes in, looks at that landing page, make sure it’s working and it’s correct, and all that kinda stuff.

So can you talk about and gives some advice for, maybe people who are dipping their toes in for the first time, setting up maybe a little tiny offer funnel?

Amanda Robinson: So when I, I just wanna kind of connect this question back to the [00:37:00] previous question as well, and like the different types of campaigns to run. Where do you start? How do you know where, which ones to use traffic or leads or engagement? Those different objectives come with different costs behind them. So it, the more you are asking people to do or the more information you’re asking from people, the more expensive your ads get, is just the cost of doing business.

If I want to keep people on Metas platform and just ask for them to engage with the Post and keep them in the experience and not send them off to any other destination, that’s going to be a lot less expensive than if I’m asking people to click a link and leave Metas platform and go to a website that’s gonna cost me a little bit more money.

Or we take it one step further. If I want to collect your email, address your name, any additional information, I want your data. That’s going to cost even more money because that’s so high, highly valuable to a business owner. So if you have a business that’s coming in fresh into advertising and saying, okay, I wanna run lead ads, which is essentially a form where people fill out their name and email, any other questions you want.

So [00:38:00] if I’m trying to collect your data and use a lead form, whether I’m doing that through meta’s built-in forms, or sending it to my website and collecting it from there, there’s a higher cost involved in that. And if you’re an advertiser going in, let’s ballpark on the very conservative end that, let’s pretend that it costs about a dollar per lead.

Well, if you’re just getting into advertising, you’re like, okay, I have a hundred dollars to work with. And if your ads are firing on all cylinders and they are the best quality ads and everything is working, you might get a hundred leads out of that. But those ads. The nature of how lead ads deliver, they’re going to deliver to a much smaller audience, and they’re going to be a lot more repetitive.

So you’re gonna get out in front of the same people 3, 4, 5 times. So it’s a very small audience of people, small segment, you’re reaching, you’re spending a lot of money to do it, and you’re trying to capture the attention span of. If you’re in business and you spent that same hundred dollars and you did that on a reach ad, or even on an engagement ad, that a hundred dollars can help you reach thousands and [00:39:00] thousands.

Let’s pretend five to 10,000 people that you could be reaching with that a hundred dollars. You’re not getting their name and email address, you’re not getting their information. But if you’re just starting out, it’s so much more important to get on people’s radar and be shown in front of people. So I, I run into this quite a lot when advertisers, new advertisers come to me and they say, I’m spending so much money and nothing’s happening.

And we take a little step back and we look at, okay, well how many people have you been reaching with your content organically and through ads? And we look at that and we’re like, well, you’ve reached less than 5,000 people in this last month. And we’re all competing for attention span Instead if we had the approach where we have a business that’s coming in, starting with reach ads, we’re just, we, we just need to get in front of as many accounts as possible with high quality content. Then we layer on getting people to click to go to a website, and then we layer on, okay, now that we have, we have 30,000 people that we’ve been reaching, then we have 2000 people who have been clicking.

Now I’m [00:40:00] going to start running lead ads. And those lead ads are likely more likely to hit the people who’ve already been engaging with us at a lower cost and acquire the information and data we’re looking for. So if we’re going outta the gate and we haven’t established an audience yet, and we are not reaching a high volume of volume of people, and we’re just going straight in for the, the

Ask Good luck. Sometimes for some businesses I can work, well, for most of us, it’s just a long, expensive learning journey to say, okay, finally I do need to put the actual work in to creating high quality content that my, that my potential audience actually wants to consume. So

Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

Amanda Robinson: there’s a lot of, lot of factors involved.

Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

Paul Gowder: So when you’re getting started like that, it’s what’s the best use of, of our budget and, and how do we break down our budget? Are we spending, you know, $10 a day, $20 a day, and are we doing it, you know, creating a funnel? I, I’ve heard that before. You know, you wanna create like a, the cold. Traffic and then, like you were talking about earlier, re retargeting.

so like if we have [00:41:00] $150 a month to spend, how do we know how to break that down?

Amanda Robinson: If you’re spending $150 a month, I would keep people on the platform. If that’s, if that, that’s what I would consider a very small budget. Um, generally when you’re running a campaign, you can spend as little as $1 us a day, which by the way, is about a dollar 30 Canadian. So that’s your, that’s your minimum.

Paul Gowder: So that’s, that’s the lowest. But I wouldn’t run a campaign trickling out at a dollar a day if you don’t have something that’s proven and working. That’s, that, that’s a very low amount. I would ballpark around $5 a day as sort of a, a lower end amount. Okay.

Amanda Robinson: So that run campaigns run for short stints, run something for a week and then get an idea of is that working?

And then iterate and run, learn. Take what you learn from that. Run a new campaign for a week and learn from that. But that 150 will go pretty quick. But to get the best bang for your buck at that conservative of a budget, I would say keep people on the platform. You’ll, you’ll do better at getting in front of more eyeballs [00:42:00] and connecting with people that way and using it as a tool to start conversations to then get them into your mar your other marketing channels in other ways.

If you had, say, $500 a month to, to spend, then okay, let’s do say a couple hundred dollars of that in reach. Campaigns just to get in front of as many people as we can. Then let’s maybe use another $200 of that in traffic campaigns to get people to click to go to the website. They the, they show up in different placements.

They’re primed for different placements, so they, when I’m asking for a reach campaign is gonna show up in certain ways. I’m asking for a traffic campaign. It’s going to put it in different places that people are more likely to click. They’re a little more expensive though, so I’m not going to reach as many people with that.

And then I might be able to use the last hundred for doing some retargeting. To get back out in front of them with a, a tiny offer or something that’s very easy and no-brainer. but even on $500 in spend, I’m not expecting you to have a fully layered funneled strategy. [00:43:00] It’s, it’s a touch point. Meta is a really, really good tool introducing people to your brand, into your business, but you need to have other marketing channels in place to do the heavy lifting.

Whereas if you came to me and said, well, I have a $15,000 a month budget, let’s go. I’m like, oh, we can do this. I can, we can be running simultaneously, lots of reach and lots of traffic campaigns. and the reason I haven’t touched on, Conversion campaigns or sales campaigns is ’cause for the majority of the people that we’re talking to right now are small business owners.

Some of you have services, some of you do sell products. But when we start tipping into a sales campaign where we wanna make sales, those are, it’s such a wonderful tool, especially if you have, a connected to Shopify or WooCommerce or any type of, existing sales platform that plays really nice with meta.

It’s already integrated to no one a sale or an add to cart or a checkout has happened. It’s wonderful, but you need to be able to make at least 50 of those conversions or sales or [00:44:00] whatever the thing is you’re asking for. You have to achieve 50 of them in a seven day period of time. Otherwise, the platform doesn’t have enough data to exit the learning phase when what that means is med is still trying to figure out.

I’m serving these ads in front of this audience over here. Is this, is this working? I don’t know. I’m still learning. Okay, well, let’s serve it to this audience over here. Is that, is that working? I don’t know. We’re not getting enough sales data to really know, without, without a doubt. Yes. This is who your audience is.

This is who we’re going to serve these ads to. So if you are making more than 50 conversions, or 50 sales, or 50 of the thing that you’re asking for, if you are using a sales or a conversion campaign, then, yeah, absolutely. You need to be using those features and don’t bother with traffic campaigns and all that.

Don’t bother with all these extra layers. You’re just wasting your time and money. Just go straight in for it, you’re fine. But the majority of business owners spending small amounts of money on the platform are not cranking out 50 sales a week. so that’s where, you know, again, all of these things have a balance and, and lots of [00:45:00] choices involved.

But if you’re just starting out, just start small. you don’t need to have a giant funnel with. Reach and retargeting and all the fancy bells and whistles, you really don’t. You just need to find something that gets you in front of a high volume of people who are proactively taking an action, which is called an engagement.

So if you look at, if you log into your meta business suite, which you can get to by going to business.facebook.com, go bookmark that. It’s your best friend business.facebook.com. If you log into your business suite. And you look at your overall numbers, look at how many people your content is reaching and look at how many people are engaging.

And I don’t care if it’s via ads or via organic. If you are reaching a lot of people and they’re not engaging, your content isn’t hitting the mark. And we need to tweak that. If you’re reaching a ton of people and they’re engaging, great, because that’s gonna do more for your brand than trying to get super fine tuned on ads to collect a handful of [00:46:00] email addresses that are going into a separate system that you also need to have firing on all cylinders and working to your advantage.

it’s, it’s all just one tool in your marketing, marketing tackle box.

Jeff Sieh: So you brought this up and I want to talk about this. ’cause once again this is, this is for me, it’s free consulting. one of my goals is to grow my email list. ’cause I do a, a, you know, usually a twice weekly email. I wanna grow my. Email list. That is my goal. Is there a way for me to do that effectively on Facebook, using ads.

Okay. What would you

Amanda Robinson: absolutely. Absolutely. I’ll give you an example. I’m working with a lawyer in Louisiana right now. She’s amazing, and she has a PDF cheat sheet on what to do if you get into a wreck in Louisiana and the police don’t show. Apparently that’s a thing apparently that happens. So, so she’s got this PDF cheat sheet and, and this appeals to everybody in the state that drives a vehicle.

So it has a wide appeal, it has a good curiosity hook, and people are [00:47:00] clicking on that lead ad filling out their information, and they’re getting that PDF download right on the spot and it’s growing her email list. And then from there we have a regular email cadence going out that is attracting, that is, continuing that engagement on.

So it’s, that’s a, an example of a system that’s working well. so in your case, as long as you have something that appeals to appeals to a wide audience, I wouldn’t be using these, I wouldn’t be trying to grow your email list with a really hyper-specific niche. Piece, I would find the thing that is an absolute no brainer and a thing that builds that curiosity, gets people to click.

You have to stop the scroll. Whatever you’re doing has to be enough to capture that attention, to get that initial click, and then from there people can carry on. But absolutely meta can be a fantastic tool at growing that email list. My one caution that I would give you is that just because you’re getting email addresses doesn’t mean they’re the right people.

So again, it all loops back to when you’re running those ads, [00:48:00] you really need to babysit or spot check those ads right outta the gate to make sure are they delivering to the right age group? Are they delivering to the right demographic? Are they delivering to the right state? Or the right region, because that’s another fun one too, where they decide to deliver where you weren’t expecting.

Jeff Sieh: Gotcha.

Amanda Robinson: So the so spot check that, because if you start, if you just start spending all this money, you’re like, oh, I’m getting lead ads, I’m getting, I’m getting email addresses. My email list is growing. It’s all well and good, but if it’s not the right people, you’re just wasting time and money to begin with.

Jeff Sieh: So I wanted to bring Paul into this conversation because of, you know, he’s got this million plus Facebook group. Uh, he also has a very successful, I would say, lead ad campaign. So, Paul, tell kind of what you’re doing and I’d love to have an You know, talk about it and say why it’s good. Maybe some ways to make it better.

So talk about that really, really quick as we wrap things up.

Paul Gowder: Yeah, so I’ve been using lead ads to, you know, get people to fill out the form and get on my email list I’m using, whether you are a first timer and what to expect at your [00:49:00] first powwow or if you’re just looking to find a powwow near you. Those are kind of my two hooks that get people into that. and then we’re also using some, some MiniChat like, you know, texts or comments, so and so, and then I get you on the email list.

So that’s how we’re doing it. And one of the things I’m always curious about, are they the right people? And, and how do I kind of narrow that down and, and continue to focus it so I do get the right people?

Amanda Robinson: And that’s gonna require a lot of understanding of what, what your definition of the right people are and how that looks. So you could always run some isolated tests. So for example, with the, lawyer client that I was just talking about when we were taking all of her leads and bringing it into her email system, we were keeping that.

we are keeping them completely separate from the rest of her, email addresses. So we were running separate campaigns to understand what does their open rate look like? So if I’m pouring a whole bunch of leads in from Facebook, am I getting a 30% or more open rate, or am I getting a 10% open rate?

What does that, what does that look like? So you can always run these as little batch [00:50:00] tests where you bring them into, you bring those leads into your, email marketing system, but you tag them in a unique way or you find a way to isolate them, run separate campaigns to them, and then compare that against your o other open rates to see are they, are they the right people, are they not?

So that’s one way of doing it.

Paul Gowder: Yeah,

that’s what

I’ve been

doing.

Amanda Robinson: I’m really curious to hear how, I wanna understand which one you’re having better success with the lead forms versus, chat leading to collecting a lead. Because I’ve typically found that chat has been a little more expensive and a little, little clunky at times.

Paul Gowder: Yeah, I’m still trying. That one I’ve always been doing maybe a couple weeks I’ve been doing the lead ads for, for months, maybe, maybe over a year. and I’m finding good success in getting people into it. The, the open rates and the click-through rates are not as good for those people as a normal subscriber, but I’m collecting leads at a very low rate.

So, I’m okay if a few of them unsubscribe or whatever, you know, cause it’s still turning out to be that I’m collecting [00:51:00] some. So that’s what I’ve been trying to do is just do it in mass and hopefully that, you know, half of them are good. Right.

Jeff Sieh: So how, how long, big is your email list, Paul? Just you can tell people the size of that just so they have an idea.

Paul Gowder: It’s about 120,000 subscribers.

Amanda Robinson: wow.

Jeff Sieh: see different level

for, but

Amanda Robinson: how much does it cost you to maintain that?

Paul Gowder: Uh, it’s not, that’s not a pretty number.

Amanda Robinson: Yeah.

Jeff Sieh: anyway.

Amanda Robinson: that’s another motivation as to why you want to get the right people on it, because you’re paying for every one of those email addresses to, to acquire it, and then you’re paying to keep it on the list. but I would be very interested because you’re, you’re promoting events nationally, is that right?

Paul Gowder: Uh, US and Canada.

Amanda Robinson: US and Canada. So are you segmenting or segregating your list and Sieh, or is it just you they’re getting a blanket of, it doesn’t matter if you live in Canada or the us you’re getting the one weekly email that has everything on it.

Paul Gowder: yes, it’s more than once a week, but yes, you’re getting that email. Yes.

Amanda Robinson: Yeah, because I, I wonder if you were able to do [00:52:00] some experiments where you ran some lead ads to isolate certain area, like say, British Columbia and Canada, because we have a much, a much higher, awareness of indigenous populations here compared to Ontario or New Brunswick, for example. So I wonder if you were to run some isolated tests where you could isolate a province or isolate a state, tag them in your email marketing system, and then run specific things specifically about that province or that state to them and see if that spikes, um, retention rates or what that looks like overall

Paul Gowder: I’ve experimented doing it with California and it, it did. Okay. but Interesting. Yeah, I haven’t thought about doing British Columbia or some of the provinces. That’s a good idea.

Jeff Sieh: See that’s what all this show is all about. It’s helping Paul figure out his problems and myself. So

Amanda Robinson: just re re the show, helping.

Jeff Sieh: It’s right, it’s right. So this has been a fascinating talk. We are at the end of time, Amanda. I could go on forever ’cause I think this is fascinating. I think as, it gets more and more noisy out there, being very strategic in your [00:53:00] ads and your ad buy is gonna become more and more important.

And thank you for people like you who keep us up to date on all this stuff. That’s, that changes. Where can people find out, you know, your courses, your community, where you’re speaking at, where can people find all things? Amanda Robinson.

Amanda Robinson: All the things at The Digital Gal on every platform. So on Facebook or Instagram. The Digital Gal, the digital gal.com. that’s definitely where you can find me, reach out, connect with me if you have any interest in learning how to do your own Facebook and Instagram advertising. I have a program called Swift Kick in the Ads, and it’s a wonderful community where we can help, help get you up and running without you paying the cost of a high end consultant to do it for you.

So the digital gal everywhere.

Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And where can people find the amazing, Paul Gower.

Paul Gowder: Com, that’s where, yeah, I’m putting all that stuff. I appreciate it and of course if you’re looking to go to your first pow, I’ll just head on over to powells com.

Jeff Sieh: Awesome, awesome. And by the [00:54:00] way, if you would like to join our amazing email community, we’ve talked about it before, you can go to jeff c.com/news. We put out some fun and we have a great community over there, at the, at the newsletter, jeff c.com/news. And with that, thank you guys so much for watching.

Thank you, Ralph. but mostly Disney came in late. Peter Fennell said first time here. Thank you for showing up, uh, Pete, I appreciate that everybody who watched cast ahead, Chris Stone, everybody. Thank you guys so much. Thank you, Amanda, for once again being an amazing guest. And we will see you guys next time.

Bye everybody.