SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: It’s because it’s easier. It’s easier to sit in your corner and do nothing last week I had an opportunity to do, uh, some, remote production and some editing for a really big company, and I was scared. Like it wa- it’s a big one. It was one of those, kinda those white whale things that I has wanted to do.

[00:00:16] Jeff Sieh: I even told Jodi, I said, “I’m scared to do it, but I’m more scared not to do it.” And so you have to kinda take that energy of fear and flip it on its head and use that as like, “Ugh, okay, I’m gonna go talk to this person. I know I’m gonna be weird, I know I’m gonna turn bright red or whatever, but I’m gonna make myself do it,” ’cause the good stuff happens outside of our bubble.

[00:00:34] Jeff Sieh: that’s what I tell my kids, like, I know it stinks and it’s uncomfortable and you don’t wanna do it, but when you do, y- you increase your opportunities, you know, so much. Hello, folks. Welcome to Creator News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not

[00:00:53] Paul Gowder: And I’m Paul Gowder, and this is the show that keeps you up to date with what’s happening in the world of the creator economy and so much more

[00:00:59] Jeff Sieh: have you ever scrolled [00:01:00] your feed and realized you can’t tell which posts were written by a person anymore? Do you ever wonder what’s actually left that a robot can’t do for your business?

[00:01:07] Jeff Sieh: And to be honest, have you been sitting on a question for us that we never got around to answering? If that sounds familiar, you are in the right place

[00:01:16] Zac Brown: This week there’s no guests because the guests are our hosts, Jeff Sieh and Paul Gowder. They are taking the hot seats to break down the two things AI can’t fake, storytelling that actually connects and community you actually own. And then they’re opening the floor for an ask us anything, starting with every question we didn’t get to last episode

[00:01:32] Jeff Sieh: So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Creator News Live. [00:02:00]

[00:02:05] Jeff Sieh: Zac, you have the floor. You’re gonna be, taking us through this, so

[00:02:07] Jeff Sieh: let’s go

[00:02:08] Zac Brown: So before we get started, I wanna ask our audience to be honest, how much of your content did AI write this week? Do me a favor, type the word human if it’s all you, robot if AI does the heavy lifting, or teamwork if you’re like me and somewhere in between. So get in the chat. Let’s get rolling. we’re gonna start at the beginning ’cause that’s the b- best place to start.

[00:02:28] Zac Brown: Jeff, you went from the manly Pinterest tips to running live shows for some of the biggest names in this space. Paul, you started Powwows.com 25 years ago, don’t feel old, as a college project. Tell us the story behind the story and what the origin still teaches you about why people actually followed you in the first place

[00:02:48] Jeff Sieh: Paul, you go first

[00:02:49] Paul Gowder: Yeah, so I, I say I’m an accidental entrepreneur and a- actually an accidental streamer too. Both of those things, came about because I just fell into it, right? So the whole college project, I was just playing with [00:03:00] HTML, but it was the community, it was the people showing up that started asking for things, like asking for a way to know where powwows are around the country, so I figured out how to build a calendar.

[00:03:10] Paul Gowder: People asking for a way to talk with each other, so I figured out how to build a forum. And for me, that’s been– I just lean into that. You know, if, if they ask for something, I try to deliver. Sometimes I’m, I’m a little ahead, sometimes I’m way behind, but that’s been what we’ve done at powwows.com, is just try to deliver what our community wants and give them ways to engage, and then get out the way

[00:03:28] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome, man. Yeah. So by the way, before, you know, talking about getting out of the way, I got too far ahead and I did not mention our sponsors, which are the amazing folks over at Ecamm. Find out more about them at ecamm.com/jeff. You can save 15% by using, the code JEFF15 with your first purchase.

[00:03:45] Jeff Sieh: and so it’s funny ’cause, you asked about Manly Pinterest Tips. That’s where I started. Like, I had started, a, like a… I, I was doing a website design company. I was building stuff out. And social media started happening and people asked, like, “Hey, should I be on it?” And I’m like, “Well, I kind of need to find [00:04:00] out about it.”

[00:04:00] Jeff Sieh: And I heard about Pinterest from the Social Media Examiner’s podcast and I said, “Oh, I need traffic.” So I started doing that. That led into the Manly Pinterest Tips show and podcast, and that’s how I got my job, working for Social Media Examiner and worked there for about five years and was able… When I first started it was the Wild West of, like, live video, which I’ve always loved.

[00:04:20] Jeff Sieh: And, uh, got people like Guy Kawasaki on and the producer of Pretty Woman. I mean, it was, it w- Anybody’d come on your show. They didn’t care. It was just, you know, just like, “Hey, we’re live.” And it was like, uh, you had a television studio in your pocket. So, that’s kinda how it all started, and then, then it’s just, you know, making connections.

[00:04:36] Jeff Sieh: Like, I can trace my job, ’cause I produce Guy Kawasaki’s Remarkable People podcast, I can trace that back to a comment that I made on P- Fakes Fitzpat- Fake- Peg Fitzpatrick’s post, over on Google Plus, and we just started chatting. And I was asking questions, making thoughtful comments. I wasn’t sucking up, and that relationship developed.

[00:04:54] Jeff Sieh: And so when he actually wanted to do a podcast, she called me. So that’s kind of how it all happened. [00:05:00] So very, very cool.

[00:05:01] Zac Brown: And I love that because it’s all about that human connection. That’s the thing that AI, I don’t think, can replicate. Like, I love what you said, Paul. Like, you’re like, you’re giving them what they want and then getting out of the way. Jeff, you were like, “I’m just reaching out one human to another.” And it’s crazy in this world where anybody can post 30 posts a day with AI now, which is wild.

[00:05:21] Zac Brown: Like, our feeds are full, our inboxes are full. Most of the text we’re getting through sounds exactly the same. I think we’ve all seen that, and this landed for me, you know, thing to somebody’s text message. From where each of you sits, Jeff then Paul, like, what has AI actually changed about what cuts through, and what’s the thing that you still just can’t fake or that AI can’t fake?

[00:05:41] Zac Brown: Excuse me.

[00:05:42] Jeff Sieh: So for me, what it can’t fake, I’ll start there, is like what we’re doing now. Like I see Rich Graham in the comments. You know, he said combo. He do- you know, you asked that question in the beginning. He kind of does both. and so for me being able to see the comments, oh, Amy Keys is here. Oh, Jim Fuse just stopped by saying good morning, gentlemen.

[00:05:58] Jeff Sieh: That connection I think [00:06:00] is what made it for me that could not fake. Um,in fact, when I first started, I mentioned the, the web design business, is that I, I, I hit my limit. Like, you know what I mean? Like you’re in a small town, and like you’re doing the websites, and people come argue with you like, “My son can do it.”

[00:06:14] Jeff Sieh: And I’m like, I need to expand my area. And now with technology, live video, the internet, all this stuff, we can expand and not just like, okay, I’m doing a service-based industry in my small town. I can expand my reach, and that’s what I was able luckily to be able to do. Because I don’t think AI can fake, live video easily at

[00:06:32] Jeff Sieh: all

[00:06:33] Zac Brown: what has it changed about like what you feel cuts through like the noise?

[00:06:37] Jeff Sieh: Oh, I think, like, this is what cuts through the noise. I like being able to talk, like, that I can have Paul on and we can go down tangents and then, you know, just this connection that we have through live video. And in fact, Paul and I don’t get to see each other except for a couple times a year. Same with you, Zac but because of the connection and the technology we have and that we show up regularly in each other’s feeds and shows and, you know, [00:07:00] whatever that you’re producing, when we get to a conference or we’re together at, like, Disney or something, it’s just like we continue the conversation, and I think that’s what’s so powerful

[00:07:09] Paul Gowder: Yeah. I, I totally agree. I think it’s the The fact, like when Rich Graham says the, the animation with me without a hat on is off-putting, like, ’cause he’s used to seeing me this way, right? And, and people are used to seeing me with a shirt. So it’s those relationships, it’s getting when people start knowing you, and that matters.

[00:07:25] Paul Gowder: and then the other part I don’t think that AI can fake, even if you’re posting 30 times a day, is your experiences. So even if you are posting 30 times a day, if you’re putting in your story, your take on things, that’s the part it can’t fake. It, it can try, but people are not necessarily following you because y- you’re the best at, you know, posting 30 times a day.

[00:07:47] Paul Gowder: It’s your experience, your unique perspective. Yeah, that’s what they’re looking for

[00:07:51] Zac Brown: I think perspective is power. You know, AI can maybe know facts about you, but it doesn’t know the emotion that you felt. It doesn’t have your memories. [00:08:00] AI can’t formulate the feeling of you and Jeff and Fuljens and Rich all crammed into my Malibu leaving PodFest and heading to the Wilderness Lodge for dinner.

[00:08:10] Zac Brown: Like, you can’t replicate that. So we’re pulling from that into our stories, into our emails, into our posts. AI cannot replicate that. I don’t think it can ever get that close to being human, and it’s very important that we, not just as creators but people as a whole, take into account when they want to villainize or, you know, speak negative of AI.

[00:08:30] Zac Brown: It’s like,

[00:08:31] Zac Brown: it’s not can’t sit on your lap in the Malibu like Paul did on me. So it’s a, you know, it’s, it’s never gonna be that close ever

[00:08:37] Paul Gowder: Yeah

[00:08:38] Zac Brown: So leading, leading into the story aspect, you know, where do you find your stories week to week? Like walk us through how a moment, comment in the chat, you know, somebody in the comments, you know, something they’re asking, how does that turn into a story that you tell on the show? Is it, you know, an email?

[00:08:53] Zac Brown: Is it a post? Like what, where do you find your day-to-day content?

[00:08:57] Jeff Sieh: Oh, you go first. You got a gazillion sequences [00:09:00] anyway, so you have to find stories. Like, you’re real good at it

[00:09:02] Paul Gowder: I, yeah. I, I honestly, I have started wr- writing them down and, keeping track of when people do ask questions or, make a comment or something like that. because that’ll cue me. Like, there, there are some stories that I didn’t think were stories that happened in the past, and I’m like, “Oh, wait a minute, that is something I need to reference.”

[00:09:18] Paul Gowder: And so I’m actually trying to keep those up, you know, using something like, what’s the name of that, that site? Trello. I, I have a, you know, here’s, here’s stories and videos I want to make. so I’m trying to keep track of them there. a long time ago, Amy Keys told me to keep a, a folder of, of people that write me and say good or bad things, and so I’ve been keeping a, an email folder.

[00:09:39] Paul Gowder: So that, that’s one of the ways I pull from, because again, I’m trying to just follow what my community s- says, and there’s so many times they’ll ask a question or they’ll reference something, and I’m like, “Oh, wait a minute, that, that probably is something I need to talk about.”

[00:09:50] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so,

[00:09:51] Jeff Sieh: you mentioned where does AI help you tell stories. For me, for like even putting together this show, it has sped up the process for all the tasks that would suck time [00:10:00] away, and now I have more time to a- actually go out and find those stories or tell my own stories by combining two things, together.

[00:10:07] Jeff Sieh: A couple, a lot of people wrote back, a couple weeks ago I, I wrote this article about squirrels and how there is an, an article from a s- scientific study how they, they’ll go and get the almonds that they love instead of stopping at, you know, getting the normal stuff that they usually eat, and how we need to

[00:10:23] Jeff Sieh: I was comparing it like we don’t need to get the, you know, the bottom rung as we’re trying with AI and make it the easy button, but actually go further. And that story happened because I was able to go research, and I have AI actually help me go and surface stories for me to read, and that stimulates my brain to

[00:10:39] Jeff Sieh: You know, creativity is like just basically combining two things that haven’t been combined before or in your own way or something like that. And so that’s what helps me is I, I have a morning brief that comes to me every day now where, I’m not trying to learn everything about AI, but I try to kinda stick to my lane about, visual marketing and visual stuff that AI can do.

[00:10:58] Jeff Sieh: And so it surfaces that [00:11:00] stuff out to me every morning to keep my, you know, brain working on that stuff. So that’s how AI has helped me to do it, but I don’t think, like that Tuesday email, Tuesday, Wednesday email that I usually write, that’s never AI. I, it helps me gather information, but then the voice is mine, and that’s one thing that I’ll never like mess with, because I want people to know that that one’s from me

[00:11:18] Zac Brown: and I think that’s the fine balance where you’re like, “I’m using that tool, but I’m telling it to go put the story together.” Like, you’re pulling it from your emotions, your humor. Like that email I remember because it was well-written and I knew this was from a human being, not a robot. what do you feel that the biggest storytelling mistake that people are doing too often?

[00:11:37] Zac Brown: They’re just kind of passing off the keyboard to AI. Like where’s– What do you think the biggest mistake is there?

[00:11:43] Jeff Sieh: Paul, you got one?

[00:11:43] Paul Gowder: I mean, I, I think it, it’s, it’s what we were just talking about. It’s not putting your own story in it and letting AI tell the entire story. You, you have to make references to, something that you can pull from, right? And if you don’t put your own emotion, if you don’t put your own touch on it, your uniqueness, yeah, I– there’s so many [00:12:00] posts out there you can just look at and say, “Oh, yeah, that was all written by a human,” right?

[00:12:04] Paul Gowder: And, and then you just skim past it, right? Because it, it doesn’t, Why do I need to read this? and you can tell those, and it– so yeah, you just skim past them. It, it has to have a personal touch

[00:12:13] Jeff Sieh: So I wanna pull up a comment from Amy. She goes, “I love both of your stories and your emails. One of my favorites is when Jeff saw those con- construction guys on the roof.” Yeah, so what happened is I was up on a, a … I can’t rem- I think I was in, uh, the UK speaking, and I looked down, and a guy was working on a roof, and I don’t think he realized that there’s buildings above him that could look down on him, and he went to the corner and just took a leak.

[00:12:32] Jeff Sieh: And I’m like, “Okay, that’s interesting. I’m gonna write about that.” And it’s so funny, the best compliments that I get is, people say, “AI could never make that up.” That’s what you want, right? Like, you want that kind of stuff. uh, I wanna pull up another comment from,this is one from Michelle.

[00:12:47] Jeff Sieh: She goes, “AI helps me organize my thoughts so the story makes sense and, and doesn’t have a rambling, wandering post,” which is great. That’s exactly a great way and the way I use it, too. And then Rich Graham says, “Jeff, are you using voice [00:13:00] dictation to write with Whisperflow?” yes. Rich, Whisperflow has changed my life.

[00:13:06] Jeff Sieh: It is so cool, ’cause it works in everything, with Slack and, you know, writing emails. It’s just, I hit two buttons and talk. and I, I call it visual vomit, ’cause I just sit there and go, like, when I’m coming up with the image that you saw of, Paul and I and the campfire, I just kinda went bleh out to it.

[00:13:20] Jeff Sieh: Like, “This is what I wanna do, wanna talk about da, da, da,” and Whisperflow cleans all that up and sticks it over there. And so, if you haven’t used Whisperflow, they have a great free plan, and then you share it with all your friends, and you get a bunch of other free plans stacked on top of that. So that’s what I did.

[00:13:33] Paul Gowder: Jeff, and I’ll tell you, here’s a story of, for Whisperflow. I, I use it to, when I’m like dictating an email or something like that, or, or dictating a prompt in ChatGPT, I’m trying to find new ways to use it. And yesterday I actually, I was putting off doing a task. we’re redoing our PowWow calendar and, and I needed to send my developer a bunch of feedback on all the pages, and I’m like, “I just don’t wanna type all that.”

[00:13:54] Paul Gowder: And yesterday I was like, “Oh, hey idiot, use Whisperflow.” And so I just pulled up the pages [00:14:00] and just, yeah, just vomited into Whisperflow and then said, “Okay, let, let Claude clean it up and make it pretty and understandable.” Yeah, saved me so much time

[00:14:09] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. it’s fun. My daughter, she, I always send my emails to Abby for her to look at beforehand, make sure all the links work and I didn’t say anything stupid or or insensitive, which I can have, I have done before. and she came back and says, “Dad, did you really write this?” And I’m like, ” What do you mean?”

[00:14:25] Jeff Sieh: She goes like, “Are you sure?” And I’m like, “Yeah, I, I made that promise that I would only…” And she goes, “Well, that was really good.” And so that’s a good, thing for your daughter when she thinks you’re lying about the, the article you wrote. So,

[00:14:36] Zac Brown: This was too polished to be you

[00:14:38] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and then Kevin from Doghouse Media says, “AI is great to help organize my thoughts, and it can’t replace unique stories, passions, and purpose to define who we are.”

[00:14:47] Jeff Sieh: So that is very, very true. Yeah. And then Dustin’s saying he’s been doing the voice vomit with AI for years. It’s very helpful. Yes. Yes.

[00:14:55] Jeff Sieh: Anyway

[00:14:55] Zac Brown: So you’re talking about good content, good stories, that attracts people. The more [00:15:00] and more people you have, you build this little thing that we lovingly call a community. So for our audience today, where does your community actually live? In the comments, type rented if it’s all on social platform, owned if you’ve got an email list, Paul is getting all excited, and/or your own community space, or both if you’re working the funnel.

[00:15:19] Zac Brown: So guys, good stories are what get people to show up. But I think the more important question to ask is what keeps them showing up in your community? And you two are two very different examples of how people can do it. Paul, again, you know, how PowWows.com for 25 years, millions, that’s right, millions with an M of followers, and his community has been moving to the land he owns, not rented space.

[00:15:45] Zac Brown: And Jeff, anybody who has been in this chat on a Friday knows about how you actually build that

[00:15:51] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and, and my tech cut, cut out. What were you saying the last part? How great I was? I, I Yeah, I cut too

[00:15:56] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paul, you can go first because you have a million-plus Facebook [00:16:00] group

[00:16:01] Paul Gowder: So I, I, I think of it like this. Facebook, is where we have our biggest following, and that is where we can just broadcast stuff out, try to find people that will engage with our content, and it’s more of a wide just casting the net. Yes, some of those people do kind of fit into our community and want to follow us.

[00:16:20] Paul Gowder: but some people are just engaging because they saw an interesting story. They, they engage and move on. So if I can take them by using techniques like putting a link in the first comment or other things and get them into our newsletter, that’s where I really feel like is the heart of our community, and that’s where I put my personal touch into it.

[00:16:38] Paul Gowder: You know, on Facebook, it’s not necessarily me talking all the time, it’s more, it’s more the brand name or the brand voice. But in email, I write all of those emails from me, very personal. and like this week, this was really cool talking about email, a, a lady sent me a card off of our newsletter, like, and telling me how much she loves our newsletters.

[00:16:58] Paul Gowder: That kind of stuff is, [00:17:00] is just so incredible because you’re engaging with them, they actually feel that connection. And so that’s, that’s my, how I do it anyways

[00:17:06] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I think that’s great. So, uh, you, you mentioned the, the audience engagement, you know, asking them, saying, like, where your community actually lived. A lot of people say both, which is great to hear, ’cause, you know, for a long time people were just using like Instagram as their website, you know, and, and found out that was not probably a good idea.

[00:17:22] Jeff Sieh: I love it that p- a lot of people say both, and for me, the thing was, is hanging out with Paul, helping me develop my email list where I own that. Like, that is something I own. Probably gonna do a community in the fall, like a actual circle community where people from the show can come and talk and we have, you know, some other stuff.

[00:17:39] Jeff Sieh: Kinda like what Paul is doing with his community as well. I think the biggest thing for me, I think it’s … I think it was quoted by Wo- I think it’s Woody Allen maybe. He said, “The biggest part of success is just showing up.” Like, I think so many people stop before the finish line. They get almost there, and they’re like, “Oh, it’s not working,” and they quit.

[00:17:58] Jeff Sieh: Or this podcast, nobody… I only got 100 [00:18:00] people to listen to my last episode. If 100 people showed up in your house, you’d freak out, right? Like, in Texas you’d get shot. Like peop- you show up, 100 people show up on your sh- front porch, something’s wrong, right? Like, the, the rifle comes out. But, here I, I just think that I, I have showed up, and I, and I’ve even had, guests say, “Hey, can you move this show so I can be on it, ’cause I have a conflict?”

[00:18:19] Jeff Sieh: I’m like, “Nope. My audience is here 10:00 AM Central every Friday.” Like, that’s the deal. Like, so if you’re trying to build a community, and Paul has done a great job with this with his email, but everything comes down to consistency. You have to continue to do things. Paul always sends out an email. He’s got a sequence.

[00:18:36] Jeff Sieh: He, he constantly refines those sequences. This show, we do this show all the time, every Friday no matter what, unless, you know, once in a while we’re traveling or something else happens or we got a conference or a speaking gig. So I think that the consistency angle is huge, and it’s hard. It stinks.

[00:18:52] Jeff Sieh: When you first start and nobody shows up, not even your mom, that’s not fun. Like, it’s like, it’s hard. So what I did, and here’s a little hack, [00:19:00] is I would have my friends show up, and I would like precede them with questions. I did a lot of magic and performing in, college, and you have plants. Like, you put plants in the audience.

[00:19:09] Jeff Sieh: You can do plants for your live show. Like, not like Fika or like, you know, Shrubbery. I’m talking about plants, people that you put in your, put in your audience that actually can ask you questions, and it, and it spurs conversation to those people who are watching and maybe lurking for the first time. So be consistent.

[00:19:24] Jeff Sieh: That’s the biggest thing for me.

[00:19:25] Jeff Sieh: Oh, Barbara’s got a great question for Paul. I wanna pull this up so before we forget. she goes, “What do you think…” I know the answer, Barbara. Uh, “What do you think of, of using Substack for the newsletter and email address acquisitions?”

[00:19:38] Paul Gowder: So I think if you are bringing those emails into a, platform like Kit where you own and control the list, it’s great. Substack lets you build a newsletter, but you are not owning that list completely. They are a social media platform like everybody else, and they will change the rules.

[00:19:57] Paul Gowder: so just be careful if that’s the [00:20:00] only place you’re building a newsletter, you need to be taking those email addresses and putting them in a platform that you control completely

[00:20:06] Jeff Sieh: Paul, would you say that if you compared like apples to oranges, like Beehive is better than Substack for this if you were having to pick one of those kind of social/email platforms?

[00:20:18] Paul Gowder: Yes. Beehiiv is closer to Kit than Substack. They have some of the same features. They’re, they’re trying to be more of a… Feels more like a social kind of engagement on Beehiiv, but they are closer to Kit than they are to Substack. So yes, Beehiiv is a good in-between, but as so many people tell me a lot, “No, I need to be in- on Kit, it just costs a little more.”

[00:20:38] Paul Gowder: Well, sometimes the, the best thing costs a little bit more money. And, here’s a story. As a photographer, if everybody goes through this as a photographer, you buy like six tripods before you finally buy the expensive one. So stop buying the cheap stuff and just buy the thing you need from the beginning and you’ll s- end up saving money

[00:20:54] Jeff Sieh: And even, And Kit though has, I think it’s up to 10,000 subscribers, isn’t it, that you can get for free? [00:21:00] So, there’s no real excuse, if you haven’t started an email list. Don’t hang up from the show. Hang up. Who hangs up a show? But don’t leave the show. go after the show and start a email list. Like, just do it.

[00:21:11] Jeff Sieh: I was, I don’t know smart enough, but I somehow fell into it. When I even did Manly Pinterest Tips, my only call to action, ’cause I didn’t have anything, was like, “Join my newsletter.” And that made a difference in the long run, ’cause people signed up because they wanted to hear from me. And so even if it’s just that, like at the end of your podcast or your show or YouTube video or whatever, have that place where you can slowly start building your list, because it makes a huge difference.

[00:21:34] Jeff Sieh: So Dustin has something that’s really interesting. He says, “Consistency is important. I think another thing that is important is getting your story in front of other people’s audiences. This isn’t talked about nearly enough.” Paul, what do you say to that?

[00:21:46] Paul Gowder: Yes, I, I totally, you know, being a guest on podcasts is great, but I also try to… I spend a lot of time in Facebook groups giving value and answering questions. Not salesy, but [00:22:00] going in and genuinely providing value and trying to help people in, in other people’s Facebook groups, and I’ve gotten a lot of, of, you know, messages and clients from doing that.

[00:22:09] Paul Gowder: Again, not, I’m not going in there saying, “Hey, buy my course on how to build your email sequence.” I’m actually answering questions, and then somebody will, will message me and say, “Hey, can you help me a little bit more with that?” And I was like, “Yeah. Here’s, here’s what I do.” Right? So I, I think it is important to do all of those kind of things and really, yeah, you gotta get your story out there.

[00:22:26] Paul Gowder: Nobody knows who we are

[00:22:28] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. speaking about knowing who our, our sponsor’s Ecamm’s, they have… One of the things is showing up, like at conferences. Like, we go to Momentum. That’s where we all kinda met and hung out. Dustin talked about getting in front of other people’s audiences. Getting to, a, a event is actually getting in front of somebody else’s audience, ’cause they brought them together, and that’s where you can actually meet a lot of people.

[00:22:45] Jeff Sieh: And in fact, Ecamm’s doing one where I’ll be speaking out next month July 9th. a lot of great speakers. If you’re gonna be in the Chicago, Crystal Lake area, we’d love to see you there July 9th, right before Macstock, which I’m excited. Never been to that conference before, so I’m excited [00:23:00] to go see that.

[00:23:01] Jeff Sieh: So go check them out. So little plug there. Sorry, had to do it

[00:23:04] Zac Brown: No, you’re good. And one– Before we move on, one– I wanna kind of speak into what Dustin was saying here. I think sometimes we get a little nervous about being in front of people, around people that we don’t know. You know, sharing your story. Well, what if, what if they don’t like me? What if they think I’m stupid?

[00:23:19] Zac Brown: Well, what if they’re the catalyst for the next season of your life? What if they are the people that open the door? Don’t hold back. Like, they might need your story, but you also might need their connections. You don’t know. Don’t hold back. This is all about networking and meeting new people. The world is a lot more friendly than we give it credit for, as long as we actually do the work and show up.

[00:23:37] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It’s hard. I get it. Like, I went to a meetup from a mastermind I’m in that I lurk in mostly, and it was uncomfortable. Like I, most of the time when I go to conference, somebody recognizes the weird beard and they say s- I can find somebody there, right, to latch onto. So I don’t, I feel like I was at, I felt like I was at junior high at the first dance, like where everybody, you’re like lining the walls, checking each other out.

[00:23:59] Jeff Sieh: Like, “I ain’t gonna [00:24:00] dance. You gonna dance? I ain’t dancing.” That kind of thing. so I get it. Like, it’s hard. But go in with a plan. Paul is one of the best, when he goes to an event, like he has an agenda. Like, he f- like, “Forget Jeff. I’m gonna go talk to this guy at Kit ’cause he’s got, you know, he’s, he’s got this in.”

[00:24:15] Jeff Sieh: So Paul, talk a little bit how you prep- you prepare for these events that you do.

[00:24:20] Paul Gowder: Yeah, I try to go in with an objective, like, you know, here’s some people I want to meet and here’s connections I want to make for specific reasons. and here’s one that happened. sometimes you don’t know who you’re gonna meet and sometimes, you know… But we were at Craft and Commerce last year, and we were standing outside talking and, behind us was the CEO of Kit, and Lou’s like, “Oh, there’s Nathan.”

[00:24:41] Paul Gowder: I was like, “Oh, you know him? How about go introduce me?” And so we had a nice long conversation with, with the CEO of Kit, and because of that, I was able to get into a beta program the last, like month and testing one of his products because I just made that connection with him. So you never know what those connections are.

[00:24:58] Paul Gowder: So yeah, I, I try to go in with [00:25:00] either connections I want to make or specific questions I want to get asked. you know, I knew who was gonna speak last year at Craft and Commerce, and there was like four or five people I really wanted to go shake hands with and, and say something to. yeah, you have to, and that does help.

[00:25:12] Paul Gowder: And for me, I’m, I would rather hang on the back wall and not talk to people. So for me, that forces me to do that at a conference. I don’t wanna be, I don’t like the networking thing. I’m not good at that. But going in with a plan makes me do it

[00:25:26] Jeff Sieh: It’s sometimes harder, but I think going to the smaller conferences like Momentum, Craft and Commerce, Creator Camp, it almost forces you. ‘Cause a lot of times you’ll have some mixture of things where you’re like, “Oh, this is weird. I don’t wanna do this.” but then once you do it, you make friend- I mean, I’ve, I’ve had m- masterminds.

[00:25:42] Jeff Sieh: I’ve got one that I’ve done over 10 years now. We meet on Monday mornings with Erik Fisher and Anthony Witt that I met at It was like a, a podcast movement. It wasn’t even Podcast Movement at the time, before Social Media Examiner, and I met those guys, and it developed into a mastermind that we, we know everything about each other now.

[00:25:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:26:00] Too much, actually. but that kind of stuff can happen if you go with that agenda like Paul was saying, is like, “I’m gonna, I’m gonna go outside of my comfort zone because that’s where good stuff and new things happen

[00:26:10] Zac Brown: Yeah. I love this. This is what I’m all about. So we’re gonna pivot here just a little bit and we’re gonna talk about money, but I don’t want it to be gross. And both of you monetize your community, your sponsorships, content, you know, memberships, affiliate work, lots going on. How do you make money from a community while making the community feel served instead of sold to?

[00:26:32] Zac Brown: I, what, what is the line for you guys? Jeff?

[00:26:34] Jeff Sieh: You’re gonna ask me first. so I only share things, that I really believe in. I, so I, I, a lot of it comes with affiliate stuff, but, you know, like I talk about Ecamm. Now, I used Ecamm way before I was ever affiliated with them or spoke at any of their conferences or any, or knew Katie or any of those.

[00:26:50] Jeff Sieh: I liked it as a product, and I used it a lot. Like, it’s the same way with Descript. I love Descript. I use it every day. It’s a big part of my workflow, and I just talk about it. And then that led [00:27:00] to, mentioning it, and then s- a lot of these have really great affiliate programs, and you can make really good mon- If people trust what you’re saying and trust you, and you have a relationship with your audience, that’s where something like that makes sense.

[00:27:12] Jeff Sieh: Now, if you notice, I really just push Ecamm, because they sponsor the show, I really like it, I’m a part of their community. I don’t, like, hop around and like, “Hey, here’s a new thing.” I’m not, like, selling stuff every show. It’s the same people, and once again, it comes back to consistency, and that stacks.

[00:27:28] Jeff Sieh: Like, if you’re s- if you’re have a good product, then that makes sense for you to do, and stacking it makes sense, and then, people want you to come, you know, talk to their community, and then you can have speaking gigs and fees.

[00:27:39] Jeff Sieh: Like, I’m not a big sales guy. It’s more of like, “Hey, do you wanna join our mastermind with Paul and I? We, we do this, we just started a new one, and we’d love to have you there,” that kind of stuff. And so it’s very organic, and I, I say this, and we talked about, like, having a, the core of your AI kinda know who you are in, in our mastermind call, and for me, the, one of the cores is I would rather lose business than a relationship, [00:28:00] and I’ve always had that.

[00:28:00] Jeff Sieh: Like, that’s the thing. Like, A lot of people who are friends with, they were business with me before, they’re not anymore, then they come back, and so that kind of philosophy for me is kinda my core and, and has worked well for me. Paul?

[00:28:12] Paul Gowder: So for a long time, our primary revenue source was develop content that our community loved, drive them to the website for them to consume the content, and we make money off advertising. That’s still part of our revenue stream, but with the way SEO and everything has shifted, that’s not as– it’s not our primary anymore.

[00:28:30] Paul Gowder: It’s, it’s still a big one, but it’s not our primary. So we’ve had to figure out other ways of doing it. One of those is I developed a digital product. and for the first year, I sold a digital product about what to expect at your first powwow. I had that as an email sequence for years. at– in fact, I was working with Claude on my kit yesterday, using it to help me look at some analytics, and it’s like, “You know, you’ve had the same landing page since 2019.”

[00:28:54] Paul Gowder: I’m like, “Oh, okay.” Um,so we– I’ve had that

[00:28:57] Paul Gowder: sequence since at least 2019, [00:29:00] and it does really well, and it helps people answer some questions, get things on, and I get a lot of responses, so I know it works. So I finally took all that content and turned it into an e-book and let people purchase it. Then my community kept asking, ” I really would like to have that book printed.”

[00:29:15] Paul Gowder: I’m like, ” It’s a digital book. I’m not gonna– Why do I wanna sell a printed version?” And they had to hit me over the head with it, but we did finally come out with a actual printed version. and so now they order that, and it, it’s selling well. Again, it’s listening to your audience and figuring out how you serve them and, and packaging it up in a way that they want it.

[00:29:32] Paul Gowder: yeah, that’s, that’s what we’ve been doing. And we’re also, exploring other things, like we have a Mighty Networks now that we’re trying to funnel people into, and there’s an option there to have a paid version of that. we’re also playing with some, some newsletters that are paid now, things like that

[00:29:46] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I wanna take, the Disney Hotel Lady’s got a great question. I think it’s a, it’s something, it’s funny that she finds it shocking because you guys are so good at it and have made so many connections, it’s kind of shocking to hear you don’t like it. I’m- she’s talking about networking, like when we go to [00:30:00] conferences and stuff.

[00:30:00] Jeff Sieh: It’s because it’s easier. It’s easier to sit in your corner and do nothing last week I had an opportunity to do, uh, some, remote production and some editing for a really big company, and I was scared. Like it wa- it’s a big one. It was one of those, kinda those white whale things that I has wanted to do.

[00:30:17] Jeff Sieh: I even told Jodie, I said, “I’m scared to do it, but I’m more scared not to do it.” Does that make sense? Like it… And so you have to kinda take that energy of fear and flip it on its head and use that as like, “Ugh, okay, I’m gonna go talk to this person. I know I’m gonna be weird, I know I’m gonna turn bright red or whatever, but I’m gonna make myself do it,” ’cause the good stuff happens outside of our bubble.

[00:30:36] Jeff Sieh: that’s what I tell my kids, like, I know it stinks and it’s uncomfortable and you don’t wanna do it, but when you do, y- you increase your opportunities, you know, so much. Paul, what are your thoughts about that?

[00:30:47] Paul Gowder: Yeah. I’ll be honest, you, as far as like showing that I, I’m reluctant. Lou doesn’t like when I tell the story, but my first two Momentums, when you go to Momentum, you get your bingo card at the beginning and you have to go around the room and, and find people that [00:31:00] match your little things on your bingo card and fill it out.

[00:31:01] Paul Gowder: I think at the first two, maybe three Momentums, I didn’t do it. I wouldn’t, I would not… And I was a speaker. I would not walk around the room and do it. I would just hide in the corner and, and talk to a couple people I knew and just avoided the whole thing. it, it is a great prompt and now, you know, I do them now and complete them.

[00:31:19] Paul Gowder: But yeah, the, the, I, I don’t like doing that stuff and it’s hard for me

[00:31:22] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And that’s the thing too, is if you go to a conference and you have people like I know Paul and Zac and Amy and all these other people, who go to Momentum, it’s, it’s really easy to go in your clique because it’s easier, right? It’s great. Go out to dinner with them. Like, go out and have fun. Make time for your friends, ’cause that is important to develop relationships.

[00:31:41] Jeff Sieh: But also Make a, a conscious decision that I am not going to sit there and just talk to Paul. It’s really hard for me to do, ’cause it is easier. And so it’s doing those hard things. Disney hotel lady says, “Just like me, I’d rather not, but have to.” That’s a great way to do it. That’s the way you can think about it, yeah

[00:31:58] Zac Brown: Yeah. So there’s a lot of people that are [00:32:00] watching that they are new to this, they’re starting out, they’re trying to figure out what things they need to be doing next. So let’s kind of do a start from zero scenario. You wake up tomorrow with only 100 followers. I mean, only, that’s still significant.

[00:32:13] Zac Brown: No list, no group. You keep everything you know now. What do you each do in the next 30 days to build a community step by step? The representative from South Carolina has the floor

[00:32:24] Paul Gowder: everybody knows what I’m gonna say. You, you start with the list. I, I still think that’s the most important thing right now. if some of you tried to log into Facebook this morning, it was down for like an hour. these platforms are going to change. That’s the only thing we know about social media platforms, is they will change the rules on us.

[00:32:39] Paul Gowder: So own your list. So the first thing I would do is start an email list, start with a sequence that answered a question I know my audience needs help with, and then I would start posting on social, trying to engage people with that type of content and driving them to the newsletter. That, that’s where I would start

[00:32:57] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I think for me, if I, if I [00:33:00] had to start from zero, the list for sure, ’cause that’s… But to get people on the list, I still think going live is, is the… Anybody, I m- you can make a YouTube video, right? Like, you can. But if you wanted to build a community, I still think live video is so powerful. I get that it’s hard.

[00:33:17] Jeff Sieh: That’s why you should do it. Like we talked about earlier, the hard things are what moves the needle the biggest. taking swings until you figure out how you wanna do your live show. make it easy like I do. Get a co-host and a guest, and, like, then you can hide. Like, I can pull up P- Paul, and like, “Oh, I gotta take a drink of water.”

[00:33:34] Jeff Sieh: You know, that kind of thing. So I mean, And then have your list on that. Like, like, “Hey, if you wanna follow and learn more about me, you know, here’s my list. Go to jeffsieh.com/news.” And everybody can do that and sign up for your list. And do it consistent.

[00:33:46] Jeff Sieh: Like, pick a time that you can always do it, and let’s say do it for three months, and see if it moves the needle, but do it every time that same way every time so people can show up and, and know where you are. But, that’s what I would do to build a list or start from scratch, ’cause anybody [00:34:00] can go live.

[00:34:00] Jeff Sieh: And I get, like, being on camera stinks. Like, if I can do it with this face and weird beard, you can do it. Like, I wanna be the example of, like, what not to do, but you can still do it and be successful. So that’s what I would say.

[00:34:12] Zac Brown: And you know, if, if we’re honest, like you’re saying, just showing up, community burnout is a real thing. We don’t wanna talk about it, but it’s real. How do you keep showing up for your people year after year without resenting it?

[00:34:25] Jeff Sieh: Resenting the Paul? or

[00:34:27] Zac Brown: Just, just, just the, the grind of it, knowing that you gotta do to show up to give them what they ultimately deserve

[00:34:34] Paul Gowder: There are days. I mean, there are days where, I am tired and I don’t want to do it anymore. There’s a couple things, and I, I think you and Jeff talked about it on, on your show, Zac, is you, you have to have, some other outlets, some things to break up the day, the things to break up the weeks, the months.

[00:34:47] Paul Gowder: from us it’s travel, and that does help break up and keep things fresh. But it’s also, and I’ll go back to, something that Amy Keys told me a long time ago, and that is to save all of those emails so that when things are [00:35:00] hard, that I have something to go and read and look at and remind myself of why I’m doing it and how I’m serving the community.

[00:35:07] Paul Gowder: and then that, that helps me keep going

[00:35:09] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so I, I’ve said this before, but every Friday I wake up and I’m like, “Why am I doing this? What am- what- no one’s gonna show up.” And I feel like throwing up. I mean, every Friday. And, like, people are like, “Really?” Like Disney Hotel Lady’s like, “Really? I can’t believe…” Like, yeah, it just, every time. But I do it because once I start it, it’s great.

[00:35:26] Jeff Sieh: Like, when I see people in the comments, like Yap With Lauren and Disney Hotel Lady, and Rich Graham, the people who I know are gonna be there and I can have a conversation with, that’s what excites me, and that’s what, keeps me going. Like, it’s… And, you know, it’s, you also, you make a commitment to yourself.

[00:35:41] Jeff Sieh: Like, ” This is what I do. This is who I am. It’s every Friday, 10:00 AM Central.” and, seeing people like Lou he goes, “Hello from Dallas.” Like, I, and I know Lou, he’s supposed to be on a plane right now going to China, so I, I’m really interested in this story. I, I don’t think there’s storms in Dallas, but anyway.

[00:35:58] Jeff Sieh: but it couldn’t happen to a nicer [00:36:00] guy. he should just stay in the, the lounge and eat sushi. and ’cause he says The Weird Beard should be your brand and website. So, see? I just, I need new friends. but let’s see, what else? Oh, this is great from Amy. She goes, “Being an entrepreneur is lonely.

[00:36:13] Jeff Sieh: Find your people. Call them when you have one of those days when you want to burn it all down.” That’s funny, Amy, ’cause I sent a message to Lou and, and Paul the other day going, “Like, we gotta go somewhere. I’m just ready to burn it all down and dig a ditch, and just be a ditch digger. That’s all I wanna do.”

[00:36:29] Jeff Sieh: yeah, so anyway, I, it is very, very true. Having those people, And then, like, Michelle from Fun in Key West says, “I love catching the show on Friday. Keeps me motivated.” Well, see, like, those kinda comments, that’s why

[00:36:41] Paul Gowder: That’s

[00:36:41] Jeff Sieh: this show. That’s what the, that’s why we do the show, so.

[00:36:44] Paul Gowder: And you’re welcome, Lou. He goes, “Gee, thanks buddy.” But also think, I had this m- I had a moment last, last week where it was just, I couldn’t… That it was just, I was frustrated and I could just, the day was getting away. I was, wasn’t being productive. And sometimes it’s best just to walk away. And like for me during the weeks, [00:37:00] if I get that way, I’ll go play a round of disc golf or go for a walk.

[00:37:03] Paul Gowder: Jeff, I know you, you go for walks during the day too. sometimes you just don’t force yourself to sit there and do it, because then it does become a, a more of a grind. take breaks when you need, even if it’s just for a couple hours

[00:37:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, except when it’s hot, like in Texas, like you don’t go outside. Like, do some Pilates or something on the floor. Like, just, like I don’t, I’m not gonna go out there. So anyway, by the way, I wanted to… And we’re gonna get ready to do the ask, ask anything. So this is wide open questions for Zac, Paul, and me.

[00:37:30] Jeff Sieh: Uh, but first I wanna give a special thing from our sponsor That’s right. Ecamm.com/jeff. Go check them out. Thanks for sponsoring the show, Ecamm. We appreciate you. All right, take [00:38:00] it away, Zac

[00:38:00] Zac Brown: Cool. So again, we are gonna do an ask me anything kind of lightning round, whatever you guys want. Let’s not get too personal, but, you know, we have to lead off the batting order. We have a debt to pay. Rich Graham, he asked how to tell whether your personal Facebook profile is actually a professional or a creator profile.

[00:38:18] Zac Brown: And Paul, you promised him a follow-up, so you gotta be a man of your word. On the record, how does someone check what kind of account they have, and how do they turn professional mode on if they don’t?

[00:38:28] Paul Gowder: So the first thing is if when you go to your, your profile, whether on desktop or mobile, if you see the button that says dashboard, then you have turned on the professional mode. If you haven’t, if you don’t have that turned on, then it’s just a matter of when you’re on your profile, click the three dots over on the side and you can come down to, edit profile and turn on creator or professional.

[00:38:47] Paul Gowder: Facebook’s not consistent on what they call it, but it’s the same thing whether it says creator or professional, that’s what you want to turn on. And then you have… You’ll get analytics, eventually you’ll get the ability to monetize and you’ll be treated more like [00:39:00] a, a, a page, but still your personal…

[00:39:02] Paul Gowder: And it also turns on the ability to follow you, not just friend you

[00:39:05] Jeff Sieh: I wanted to get this quest- not, it’s a comment from my friend Rich Graham. He’s in Dallas, and he goes, “I’m not old enough to be a mall walker.” Listen, I go walk at the mall, Rich, because you know why? ‘Cause it’s hot outside, and it’s air-conditioned at the mall.

[00:39:18] Jeff Sieh: That’s the only reason. And those, those, let’s say, l- not long in the tooth, elderly, they smoke me. They’re going a million miles an hour. Like, I’m like, I, I didn’t think jogging was allowed in the mall, but they somehow just overlook these people doing that. So, I have no problem with walking in the mall

[00:39:35] Zac Brown: You know, last episode we covered what comment jail is, but not what to do once you’re in it. So if you’re sitting in a 14-day comment restriction right now, what should they actually do during those 14 days, posting or going quiet so your reach doesn’t crater for, you know, just the next two months?

[00:39:52] Paul Gowder: Yeah. this is what I would do, and again, we don’t know exact steps because Facebook won’t tell us. but for me, I would, look [00:40:00] at your posting schedule. If you’re posting four or five times a day, maybe back that off to once or twice. stop sharing to groups during that 14-day time, ’cause that could be where they’re marking you as spam if you’re sharing to too many groups.

[00:40:12] Paul Gowder: and cut down on how much you’re commenting. Some of the things they are looking at is if you are sharing to multiple groups at the same time, if you are going in and commenting the same thing across multiple posts. So for example, if you take a post you did and you share it to five groups, and then you go to each of those five groups and put the same comment on that post, that’s the kind of stuff they feel like is spam, and they’ll detect you and put you in jail.

[00:40:36] Paul Gowder: So those are the things I would back off, and then just slow down your posting schedule just a little. But you wanna keep posting, ’cause you want Facebook to still see that you are, valuable and that you are building engagement so that you’ll come out of that

[00:40:48] Paul Gowder:

[00:40:48] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So Disney Hotel Lady’s got a, a great follow-up to, as we mentioned, the free Kit account before. She goes, “Paul, advice for making best use of the free Kit account, cause you don’t have all the bells and whist- whistles.” I think you can only [00:41:00] have one sequence, or maybe not even at all.

[00:41:01] Jeff Sieh: I’m not

[00:41:02] Paul Gowder: One automation. One automation. So y- you’re allowed one automation, so you wanna think through and shoot me a message, we can talk through it. Make that automation as robust as possible. Put as much stuff into it. For me, like I, I run a, a ton of different sequences and ton of different automations.

[00:41:19] Paul Gowder: But since you only get one, just put everything into one automation that you can, and w- we can talk through the strategy of that, and then just use the one sequence that they let you have to really be, your best stuff, that one sequence that’s going to provide the most value for your reader

[00:41:35] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and, and to be honest, w- there’s usually o- one sequence that’s like your main sequence that works really, really well. So them allowing you to have one that you can really optimize can get you w- I think it m- can hold you off until you hit that 10,000 plus subscribers or, or, or till you, you grow your list enough to know like, “Okay, this is working.

[00:41:55] Jeff Sieh: I need to maybe, you know, have some new sequences and actually pay for Kit or something like that.” Paul, I [00:42:00] know Facebook has come out with some new, like account levels, I mean like l- that you can subscribe. they have Facebook Verified, but then they also have these new ones that they’re rolling out, and you mentioned before on shows that we’ve been on, that might be a good idea to do, especially if you have a group that’s growing or you wanna protect your account.

[00:42:18] Jeff Sieh: so a couple questions I have is like should we spend like I think it’s $16, $15 a month on Verified if we have a, a Facebook account, like we’re going live in there a lot or we have a group? And second, if something happens, like let’s say you do put in comment jail or you get suspended or, or you’re blocked like so many people seem…

[00:42:38] Jeff Sieh: It seems to be on the rise.

[00:42:40] Jeff Sieh: how long should you wait for them to fix it before you start a new account?

[00:42:43] Paul Gowder: All right, so let’s deal with should you be verified? Yes. Everybody who is a creator or trying to grow on Facebook to grow your business or whatever you’re doing, yes, you should be verified. That is, for me, that is the best insurance you’ll ever have. It’s not 100%. It doesn’t guarantee that they will fix everything, but, it does [00:43:00] give you the ability to, to talk with somebody.

[00:43:02] Paul Gowder: I had an issue two weeks ago, and I- they actually, called me, and so I actually got a real human on the phone, and was able to, you know, have a conversation. So yes, get verified. Now, as, far as, like, how fast you should do it, you … If you’re verified, you should instantly, as soon as you feel a problem, you should be on, in that support and opening up a support ticket and trying to get on the phone with somebody to fix it.

[00:43:26] Paul Gowder: but I also think you should, depending on what you’re doing, you, you should probably have a backup account, so, a page that you’re putting a little bit of effort into so that you do have somewhere to go. But if you’re also building a list, that is also your backup, so you can use that if, if you need to.

[00:43:42] Paul Gowder: yeah, th- there’s some steps there to, to kinda have some backup and, and insurance to fall back on. It’s, it’s scary. None of it’s 100%, and

[00:43:49] Zac Brown: So Disney Hotel Lady has a great question for you, Jeff. She’s asking, should you choose one AI to learn or be a jack of all trades and jump around?

[00:43:58] Jeff Sieh: So I [00:44:00] think you, are going to end up shifting around anyway. So I think having some, some processes down so it doesn’t matter is what you can do. You can use a tool like Magai is a, is a great one as well, kind of Dustin was in here. But what I like to do is ha- I, I like Claude right now, ’cause for me it’s the best one that’s working for what I’m doing and how it works.

[00:44:19] Jeff Sieh: but OpenAI could come out tomorrow like with something big. And the cool th- the, the bad thing is, is OpenAI has the best image model right now. Like the, the thumbnail that I used today was built with ChatGPT’s, image model. And so I have Claude write the prompts, and then I’ll take that into, uh, ChatGPT ’cause it has the best thing.

[00:44:37] Jeff Sieh: So until this plays out, and who knows what’s gonna happen, you’re gonna have some things better at, at one model and some things better with another model. So what I like to do is have, and this is what I tell people in the mastermind and everything, is like create like documents, in Claude they’re .md files, which is markdown files, which is, that knows you.

[00:44:57] Jeff Sieh: Like I have one where my constitution, what [00:45:00] Jeff believes in, like, I’d rather lose, lose business than a relationship. My AI knows that, right? It’s built this document about who I am, what I believe in, my philosophy, right? That’s one. Another one is my business. Like what, what am I trying to do? What are all the different aspects?

[00:45:15] Jeff Sieh: My live show, my email list, my coaching, my masterminds, all that stuff it, it, it knows in that document. And the thing is, these documents are living documents. I can go and amend them any time. But I can point any AI to those as the memory. So when I switch and go back to OpenAI, I can point those to those, this is who I am, this is my business, this is this client, this is whatever.

[00:45:38] Jeff Sieh: So build those first and have it interview, like, Claude right now has a really great ask questions feature in it, and have it interview you for like a half an hour and just talk back and forth and let it build that document, and then put it to a place where you can upload it into the cloud so it’s easy to access with those other things as they come along.

[00:45:56] Jeff Sieh: So that’s what I would do. And yeah, Dustin even says, “Yeah, the model [00:46:00] ping pong is rough.” especially with image generation stuff like, you know, one n- day it’s Midjourney, then it’s ChatGPT, and tomorrow it’s gonna be something else. So, having these documents of… And that’s the other thing with your design files, like I have a design that has all my logos, all my colors, all my fonts that I can point whatever AI I’m using to, and that seems to be working the best for me.

[00:46:20] Jeff Sieh: So that’s what I would do first.

[00:46:22] Zac Brown: Yeah. And just to swing back if we can to Paul, Disney Hotel Lady saying, “If I understand correctly, you cannot bundle paying to verify for Instagram and Facebook. Is that correct?”

[00:46:31] Paul Gowder: I think you can. at, at least on a… When I look at it for Powwows.com, it gives me a discount if I select both of them. I don’t know about for creators, but I know if you’re a page, it does let you bundle them together

[00:46:42] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. That’s a great question though, ’cause it feels like we’re getting 9.99ed and 15.99ed a month to death, like with all these subscriptions. So,

[00:46:51] Jeff Sieh: um,

[00:46:52] Zac Brown: so

[00:46:52] Zac Brown: on, uh, last week’s show, Paul, you were talking about, your 30-minute-a-day, Facebook challenge, which is great, but could [00:47:00] you be honest, kind of pull back the curtain and give us an actual routine? Like, if someone has exactly 30 minutes a day for Facebook this quarter, what is the minute-by-minute breakdown?

[00:47:11] Zac Brown: And Jeff, coming to you after that, what does your daily 30 look like across all platforms?

[00:47:16] Paul Gowder: So I- I’ll do it on, I have a Facebook group and a, a section over on our Mighty Networks for travel. And when I’m working on that, I, I only do that once a week actually, and I’ll go into, Claude and try to help it tell some stories and say, “I want to talk about this story, and I want to tell this story, and I want to, you know, give these tips.”

[00:47:39] Paul Gowder: And I’ll go through and have it create, you know, five or six conversation starters, five or six polls, and then take some of the stories and give me an outline for a script. And so on the travel, that’s what I do. I do that, like, on Tuesdays is my big content creation day, and so I’ll go through and then I’ll just schedule all of those for the next month, and then I’m done with that whole side of, of [00:48:00] Facebook

[00:48:00] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So for me, 30 minutes a day, this is what I would do, ’cause I’m talking to myself here. I would learn how to be comfortable with being uncomfortable doing video. Like the YAP videos, I know Paul and I have been talking about this, learning how to talk to the camera and being very organic, and learning how to do hooks, and being, being c- uncom- you’re gonna be uncomfortable.

[00:48:21] Jeff Sieh: Like, but you’re gonna have to learn how to be comfortable by being uncomfortable in front of the camera. I think that’s the unlock, because avatars and, I mean, they’re getting so good, these AI avatars and stuff. Being able to go live, being able to go and walk and talk, which is even harder maybe to, like, do in your neighborhood.

[00:48:38] Jeff Sieh: I think, those are gonna be the skills that are gonna help you cut above the noise. And I know a lot of people are gonna, “Jeff, I don’t wanna do video.” I get it. I don’t wanna do it either. But I think it’s just a fact of life. If, if you want people to know it’s you and connect with you and build a community, I think you have to figure out a way to talk to your audience with video.

[00:48:59] Jeff Sieh: I, I just really [00:49:00] believe that

[00:49:00] Paul Gowder: And here’s a good, great example, Jeff. We were talking about, you and I were talking about this the other day. I, I forgot her name, but there’s a creator that just rolled out a challenge where she’s helping people create these Yappy videos, and she sold $1.2 million worth of that course in a week or something.

[00:49:15] Paul Gowder: what I’ve done to help, ’cause I’m trying to do one of those at least once a week, travel related, and so I have gone and found some people that are really good at that, that have, models and suggestions on, like, what your hook should be and your storytelling, you know, how your storytelling flow goes.

[00:49:30] Paul Gowder: I’ve taken their models, put it, put it into Claude as a project and said, “When I tell you I wanna tell this story, use this framework to help me come up with an outline for it.” And that helps me not just sit down and ramble for, for two minutes, but actually tell a good structured story.

[00:49:46] Jeff Sieh: And I just saw in the news, too, on that same note, like if you’re using the edit app on Instagram, it’s got a built-in teleprompter, so if you’re nervous about speaking, like it’s got some things where you can put some bullet points and just use that, and then you could use the edit app [00:50:00] right, right in there.

[00:50:00] Jeff Sieh: Rich says, yeah, it’s Jessie Gene. Crazy story, yeah, and she’s only been doing it for like a year. Like she’s only been doing the… And she was like doing furniture reclamation kind of stuff, and now she’s turned into this big, yeah, influencer. but he goes, uh, it’s really hard to create out in public.

[00:50:15] Jeff Sieh: So I would do it in your house, Rich, with just, but having it like handheld. Those seem just to be, for building organic reach and connecting with your audiences, doing that instead of sitting like in a YouTube set or a set like we’re in right now, for those kind of videos just seem to do better. I, I, I think that’s kind of the, the way to go.

[00:50:33] Jeff Sieh: So, and Disney Hotel Lady says, “I did a video this week, and I watched it back. My face looked terrible, red and splotchy, but I went ahead and posted it.” There you go. Shows it’s not AI. You know what? I, I get where, like, oh, my, my mustache isn’t even. You know, who cares? Nobody knows.

[00:50:47] Jeff Sieh: So I think you did the right thing. Good, good job. So we are at time, uh, boys and girls. This has been a lot of fun. Zac Brown, you, you handled this perfectly. Like you, you got in the hot seat, and you were [00:51:00] able to interview. So, t- tell people where can people find the amazing Zac Brown? I know you got a book coming out.

[00:51:04] Jeff Sieh: Talk about that a

[00:51:05] Jeff Sieh: little bit

[00:51:05] Zac Brown: Uh, you can follow me on the socials at Zac Brown Creative, and my first book, An Accidental Education: What I Have Learned So Far, releases on June 23rd, and you’ll be able to find that on lulu.com and Amazon. really excited to get that into your hands

[00:51:21] Jeff Sieh: So make sure you guys check that out ’cause Zac’s, uh, writing is awesome. His email is really, really good too, so make sure you subscribe to him as well. Paul Gowder, what’s going on with you? What you got going on?

[00:51:30] Paul Gowder: Ah, yeah. doing a lot of training and, and videos right now on Facebook and building your social media profile, so come check it out. paulgowder.com/creatornews. love to help you with it

[00:51:39] Jeff Sieh: And als- as always, we wouldn’t be able to do this show without you because we have Thank you guys so much for watching. Appreciate you. [00:52:00] thank you for our sponsor Ecamm. Make sure you guys go check them out. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye everybody.