SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Hello folks. Welcome to Creator News Live.

I’m Jeff C and you’re not.

Paul Gowder: I am Paul Gaer, and this is the show that keeps you up to date with everything that’s happening in the world of social media and more.

Jeff Sieh: If you ever wondered how the right event can turn casual encounters into genuine community, maybe you’re curious about the strategies that make networking feel. Effortless and productive. If that sounds like your goal. Well, today you are in the right place because we are thrilled to welcome a true champion of Creator connections.

It’s Katie Fox, she’s director of marketing at EAM, has helped thousands of video creators, step up confidently on camera and build supportive networks through experiences like Creator Camp. So she’s here to share her journey, her go-to tactics and her best advice for meaningful connections. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Creator News Live.

Katie, how are you today?

Katie Fawkes: I’m doing great. It’s Friday, I’m having a ball. I get to hang out with you two. It’s no complaints. 10

outta 10 over here.

Jeff Sieh: So [00:01:00] I have been doing some special things. Uh, once again, if you’ve been following me on the newsletter, we’ll be doing this. So I have a special little intro that we have put together for Katie Fox. All righty. So that was done, my friends with, uh, the new Midjourney video. And, uh, the logo at the very, very end was,ideogram. That was the one that does the logo. So, Katie, once again, thank you for being here.

Katie Fawkes: Oh, a pleasure. And I’m totally, now that I, you play that, I’m like, well, now I need a show called Katie Fox.

Today we’re.

Jeff Sieh: right. Exactly.

Paul Gowder: Alright, welcome Katie. Katie is the director of marketing at EAMA, leading live streaming and video production software for Mac [00:02:00] users. She has a background in content strategy, podcasting, and community building. She’s passionate about helping creators confidently show up on camera and grow brands through video.

She’s the co-host of the Flow, the VHS Club, maybe a new one coming soon. She hosts multiple a live video series and speaks regularly at industry events like topics on One Take video camera, confidence and creative marketing. So great to have you back, Katie.

Katie Fawkes: Thanks. I’m so excited to be here. I love, I always, I updated that, so hopefully it sounds good.

Jeff Sieh: It does. It was really

Katie Fawkes: working my way in.

Jeff Sieh: very impressed. and by the way, this show is sponsored by our friends at Ecamm. You could find out more by going to ecamm.com/jeff. You can save, up to 15% by using the code. Jeff 15 on your first purchase, very, very honored that they sponsored the show.

They have been sponsoring us from the beginning, but a great community. And we’re gonna be talking about, camp, I’m sure, but we also gonna talk about it a little bit more, uh, in depth, uh, later on in the show. But we have our good friend, Thorpe saying, okay, we need that at Creator Camp every time Katie walks [00:03:00] into the room.

So we’ll be playing your little theme song. and Jim

Katie Fawkes: Everyone needs a theme song.

Jeff Sieh: he says, nice intro. So, very cool. And, and Pat loves it. So yeah, it’s a lot of fun to do. So, we’ll, we’ll probably have a training on that a little bit later, but we’re gonna be talking all about creator networking tips today, and especially like event experiences.

So, you know. Katie, we have both been at a lot of conferences. We, we have a ball hanging out. A lot of times you’re working so you don’t get to do as much as like, I’m just lazy and hang out. But, I want to talk about, you know, kind of like these big events versus small events. ’cause we’ve talked about this kind of a little bit offline.

So you’ve experienced both like these massive conferences with thousands of attendees and then those intimate gatherings of like 50, like, you know, we’re big fans of Momentum, but, so how did, like your time at a large conference, let’s say like, you know, social media marketing world or you know, Adobe’s big conference or whatever, how do they differ for you from a smaller creator event like converts kits, craft and commerce that we just went to, that all of us [00:04:00] were there?

Like, I know you have value in both, formats. So maybe talk about it as a, like a sponsor or a a a business, you know, person, but also like personally the difference between the two.

Katie Fawkes: Yeah, I think it comes down to what your goals are and the more events, different kinds of events that I do, the more I realize how vastly different the formats are and what, and how vastly different the experience is gonna be that you get out of these. So if you are, uh, you know, a solopreneur, an entrepreneur, just going for yourself, a large conference is gonna be a really great opportunity to dive deep into the content, to like, you know, have your notebook ready.

So go to those events if that, if you’re looking for. An experience where you are learning the content and it feels a little bit like a, a school or university setting. So pick, pick content, pick speakers that you wanna hear from, you know, that that is definitely, that kind of experience. A small event is really gonna give you a lot more of an opportunity to network and get [00:05:00] to know other people. And spend time with folks. So the, not that the content doesn’t matter as much at a small event, but the people matter a lot more at a small event. So, you know, whether you’re going by yourself or you’re going with, you know, colleagues or friends, a small event really gives you the opportunity to, to, kind of, maybe if you’re a little bit introverted like me, get outside your

comfort zone, really get to know people better.

It has a lot more of a no man left behind kind of feel. And so it, it’s been interesting, I, as you said, I’ve been there, you know, on behalf of Ecamm for most of these kinds of events. A large event, you know, you’re gonna wanna build like a, a big space, something splashy to catch attention ’cause there’s so many people and you don’t get as much of an opportunity to really be able to. Chat with as many, it’s very like short, quick conversations as people are running back and forth through different sessions and trying to, you know, soak in as much content as possible. Whereas a small event, you know, even when we’re there on behalf of vca, we have a lot more time to be able to answer people’s questions and spend time with people and get to know what their specific pain [00:06:00] points are and be able to work collaboratively.

So really, really different and really important as you’re thinking about in-person events to figure out like what your goals are

so that you go to the right events because they’re not cheap. They’re, they’re certainly a,

an investment both in your time and financially.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Yeah. They aren’t cheap anymore and it, and travel. You know, it’s a hassle. It’s just, let’s just say it, it’s, it’s a hassle. It’s no fun getting on uh, aluminum tube with, you know, I don’t know all those people that, you know, different levels of hygiene and so you just gotta have to suffer through it.

So, anyway, I get it.

Paul Gowder: But it’s fun once we get there,

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Paul Gowder: Um,

Katie Fawkes: fun when to get there. It’s

fun when to get there. Everyone is always like, you know, oh, it’s so fun, Katie. Look at all the great places you’re going. I’m like, yes, sexy locations like Boise,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. It turned Boise was a lot of fun. Really? It really was.

Katie Fawkes: awesome. But it, but it is. Yeah. It is funny. It is. It is work and it is tiring. Uh, is a lot of magic in it, so

Yeah.

Worth We’re thinking it through.

Paul Gowder: you could end up like Jeff and I and I have our, have our hotel with no hot water for several [00:07:00] days. So, um,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Paul Gowder: okay. You mentioned, you know, being an introvert and for me too, the, the thing about the conferences is I sometimes get more out of the, the hallway conversations and, and the networking part of it. I’ve gone to conferences, you know, I’m a little introverted too, and sat in the back of the room and, and not put myself out there. So what’s your advice for the introvert? Like, how can you get the most out of networking when you’re really shy and hesitant to do that?

Katie Fawkes: All right, if you are introverted, I have two pieces of advice that it me really long time to figure. the first is. If you are going, if, if the goal of your, of why you’re attending an event is just to learn, forgive yourself and don’t bother with the networking. Go and just learn. Invest in like, in being there.

Don’t, don’t feel like you need to be forced into meeting a bunch of different people. That’s not the goal of the event. What I would encourage you to do is find some of these smaller events that are going to put you a little bit outside your comfort zone. Events where there are maybe a hundred people or less, maybe 50 [00:08:00] people, is a really great, uh, you know, fit for you where you don’t. Have the permission to hide. There’s, there’s no like, back row at an event like that. And I

will say, whether it’s momentum or recently, um, I just got back from an event called Mac Stock, where, which was all, apple and Mac product focused. And so I was like, out of my element, they weren’t, this was not a group of my people, but I couldn’t even go down for breakfast in the morning without people like noticing that I had a badge on and being like, oh, don’t sit by yourself.

Come over and sit. So it, there, there will be extroverts at that event and there will be people at that event who are there to make it feel like a community. So I would say if you’re, if you’re a little nervous about it, give yourself permission to focus on the goals that matter to you. So networking might not be one of them, but if it is, put yourself intentionally into spaces where there isn’t an easy out.

Because I, if you’re like me, if there’s an easy out you, you can be like, well, I, I’m here to learn and so

I’m not gonna like, you know, [00:09:00] I’m not gonna put myself into this uncomfortable position. You will make friends and contacts and you will like learn a lot by putting yourself into situations where you are talking with people and spending time with people. and so those small conferences are a great way to do that.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. So I want to just kind of give a little bit of backstory for me and, I’ve gone to big conferences and small conferences, and I’ve gotten value from both like social media, marketing world. Is where I, I remember I drove across country, this is before I had any sort of channel or a podcast or anything.

And I drove there and I met people like Ian Anderson Gray, a a bunch of like p Fitzpatrick people who I had met online but never had talked to. But there is nothing that has boosted my business more than events and masterminds. It’s so if you get a, a, like a thorough through line, it’s the people, like people have what is, and relationships as what’s built my business.

And then Momentum, if you look at my show, I mean, Paul’s here, Connor is on the show a lot. Lou’s on here. and I had a bunch of business from that. I mean, Paul and I run a mastermind together [00:10:00] and that all that business came from. Going to a conference and meeting people and connecting. So yes, it is, like you were saying, you have to get outside of your comfort zone.

But to me, that’s where things happen. Like you, you can’t keep the status quo or you’ll never grow. And it’s hard. And believe it or not, I’m kinda like Paul and Katie. I’m more of a, what is it, Amer like it’s, I, I mean, I, I love speaking, I love getting to this conference, but I am wiped out. Like afterwards I was like, I need a, a week of recovery.

Right? And a lot of people are like that, but you have to put yourself in that spot. That’s a little uncomfortable if you want to grow. And it’s hard to hear and it’s hard to do, but you’re right, Katie, it makes a huge difference. So I want to go back to kind of a, I don’t know if I’d call it small or whatever, but it’s kind of a medium conference.

It didn’t feel small, but it was. Craft and commerce that we all went to. So great speakers. So it was kind of a mix of really good learning. And then, the intimate things where we could go around. I mean, Paul and I walked the [00:11:00] streets of Boise and went to a bunch of cool different restaurants and hate and like FU agents and went out with us to eat dinner from E Cam.

We had a great time. So there’s that mix of learning and also, networking. So what were your big takeaways? I want to hear from both Paul and Katie on, going to event like crafting commerce.

Katie Fawkes: I, I really loved this event because I think it, it blended the two styles really nicely. And what was really special for me at this particular event was that we intentionally. Figured out who was going to be there, who we were inviting to bring with us, and what, again, like what our goal was for the event.

So Ecamm was there, um, and my team was there. We brought Gins with us. We were there to build out a, like an Ecamm experience at Kit Studios, which was, a really cool, uh, offsite space that Kit who run this event have built out. So we were part of the event, but a little bit removed from it. But there were people going back and forth and kind of having that experience [00:12:00] alongside the sessions and the content itself. What I think Kit does really nicely with this particular event is they’ve given a lot of time and space for people to spend time together. So they have like pretty long lunch

breaks. They don’t do evening programming. or if they do, it’s like, it, it’s limited. So you have time to go out for dinner with each other.

You have time to go out for lunch with each other. It’s in Boise, which we all ended up loving, which, but what’s cool about it is it’s not in this giant city. There’s not like a ton of other. Distractions. So everyone that’s there is intentionally there, like for the event. And if they’re doing Boise things, it’s like spending time together with people that they’re, you know,

meeting up with in Boise.

It’s not like it’s, uh, no offense to Boise, it’s not like,

it’s like this giant destination place where people are like, oh, well I’m gonna go, you know, off to like Disney World, or I’m gonna do these other things. They kind of remove themselves from the event. I, yeah, I think, I think what was cool about that one was that it was. Big, but it had, time for smaller groups to [00:13:00] meet

up. So like if you, if you planned a little bit intentionally, you could figure out who was there and you were, and you were able to have some of those connections. Like, I wasn’t definitely not gonna be able to meet everyone and talk with

everyone, but I knew that like, you all were gonna be there. I, you know, I knew who the ECA people were gonna be. I knew the other businesses and some of their, you know, some of their people who were gonna be there. So I was able to kind of plan out what my experience was in advance and then again be like, okay, that I wasn’t gonna be able to do everything. I didn’t get to see all the different sessions, but the experience that I got out of it was really valuable to me because again, it was spending time with the different people.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. by the way, is kinda like that ghost in the mirror, you say it’s named three times they show up. And so, Luman. So, so he goes, two of my favorite people and Jeff, so thanks for that buddy. so, Paul, you know, it was the, it wasn’t big, but it did have a lot of spaces where we could go and do stuff.

So what were your takeaways from. an event like, the craft and commerce. And what would you tell somebody who’s a little hesitant to go? ’cause [00:14:00] they feel like they’re, like Katie was saying, really introverted, really scared about meeting new people. We have the cool thing is once you start doing this and you go to the same conferences, you kind of know people there.

Like, oh, Paul’s gonna be there, so I’ll go and it’s a little easier, but like

first. Yeah, exactly.

So Paul, what, what do you feel like, what would you tell somebody who’s going for the first time to event like craft and commerce?

Paul Gowder: Yeah, it, it does help to have your network of friends. And so, like, whether we’re at POD or craft and Commerce, it is really nice to kind of have that support system For me, craft and Commerce, I, I went into it. I looked at, there was a nice app that on, on Mighty Networks where you could kind of see who was speaking, who was gonna be there.

And so I actually made a list of the people I wanted to have some face-to-face time with. so there were a couple of other creators. I wanted to make sure that I actually introduced myself to, um, there was some people from KIT that I wanted to meet, so I, I went and did that. and is some of the vendors too, not just hanging out with the, the ECA group, but like I went and, um, spent some time with Semetrics and now I’m working with them to, to really identify some things in my funnels and all that [00:15:00] stuff.

So that was kind of my goal is to, to. Find those connections and, it, it really was a great place. They, they do a good job of, like Katie said, letting you have time to meet and, and mingle and, you know, network. So I really liked that. And, and the keynotes were fantastic. Yeah. Pat Flynn’s keynote was incredible to, to see in person.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I thought I thought the same thing. It was it was the stuff he said and then we’ll talk about card party. ’cause I know Katie went to that, which is another big event like that was probably bigger than even social media marketing world. But speaking of social media, marketing world, You know, I know you weren’t in it this last year, but you’ve been in it before.

I’ve been in it. I went back for, for last year, this year for the first time. I’m thinking like four or five years. but as somebody who like goes to a lot of industry events, and I know Paul does this too, what do you think that like these big conferences offer creators and marketers that’s unique.

That may be some of the smaller ones. I know you can kind of get lost in the crowd. And you mentioned talking, I mean, a learning experience [00:16:00] more than anything else, but I still was able to go and make a, a core kind of friendships just by talking with people like next to me in the seat or whatever. but do you think there are some things that conference big conferences offer you that the smaller ones can’t?

Katie Fawkes: I mean, I think for, for me, the bigger conferences really do have more of an opportunity to get to See the people who are the, the players in whatever industry you’re going to, right? So like a larger conference is gonna pull in bigger names, right? Like Pat, like a Pat

Flynn, for example.

Or, you know, even some celebrities. And so it’s, it’s a mix of kind of the, the ability to really like, learn the topics in a way that maybe is a little bit less distracting than online. And also they do, you know, if it’s a, if it’s a good large conference, they do offer a lot of these kinds of, Opportunities to be able to meet people in a really defined space. So they’ll do like, you know, networking, sessions or table talks or, you know, workshops or things that, that do take a large group and make them into a smaller group. So there is [00:17:00] opportunity there to meet people be able to like, to actually get to know them a little bit better. I think the, like the, the. Special things outside of learning that I’ve gotten from large events is when I’ve done a, a decent amount of planning in advance and

said like, oh, you know, at Social Media Marketing World, I can see that, you know, Ian and Stephanie and like a whole bunch of these people who I watch online and like, and admire.

And I would love to get to know them better, want to be friends with them. They’re gonna be at this event. So if I can get into their inbox before the event and, and set aside some time or let them know that I’m gonna be there, you know, it’s an opportunity to kind of start networking before you get to the event because that is where, you know, they’re, they’re there for the time of the event itself.

You know, if they’re speaking, let them know and then you can wait around, you know, until the end to be able to

chat with them and get, and get a little bit in front of them because then you’re, you’re not gonna get as much time with those people, even the people that [00:18:00] you’re, you know, that are not speaking at

an event like that.

But if you plan ahead and, and. schedule some time with them early and then be able to follow up on the other side that’s gonna continue to build that relationship online later, once you’re home. So whether that’s, you know, grabbing a quick coffee or lunch or, you know, or even just waiting around until after a session and, and chatting with them a little bit there, or taking them with you to the next

session that they’re going to, I think it, I think you have to be a lot more intentional at a large event of who you want to spend time with and what those blocks of time are because it’s just, there’s so much going on and, and, you know, there’s just, there’s so much to learn.

So it’s, it’s

a matter of being, I think, really careful with what you wanna do with your time and being respectful of other people’s time as well. So, you

know, figuring out who those three people are that you wanna be able to meet up with.

Jeff Sieh: Right. One of the things that we, I, I know, we were coming up with speaking is we would go in like. If Paul’s speaking, I’m gonna go to his, his, his session. ’cause I wanna

support him. If Katie’s speaking, I wanna go to her session. And there’s like this little group that would go around [00:19:00] and like support each other.

And the thing is, is you can do that. Even if you are, you know, you, you’re kind of going there for the first time because I’m telling you as a speaker, you notice somebody who’s in your event. Like if you’re speak more than once or if you’re on a panel and then you do a session, you notice those people.

And if you come up and talk to me afterwards, I’m going to mostly remember you ’cause we’ll have a conversation. So don’t, if you’re wanting, you know, there’s a, a line about being stalkerish versus, you know, you know, just being

supporting somebody. Yeah. Be stalker. But, that does make a big difference.

And, and speakers do notice who’s in the audience, especially if you’re there multiple times. Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: Oh, absolutely. And I like, I think too, it makes it easier if you’re connecting afterwards on like a LinkedIn for

example, that’s a much, a much easier, less slimy, you know, message to like, I’d love to connect with you. I saw you speak at blah, blah, blah. Then it was, you know, really important to me.

Here were the things that I loved about that. Thanks. Or I found that even, you know, when I’m. At a, [00:20:00] an event, and this, this is regardless of the size of event, but if you post on, you know, on social media, either during the event or right afterwards, like your key takeaways, things that you loved, et cetera, and you tag those speakers, even if you’re not connected to them, they see that, they know that you’ve been to the session because you’re, you’re sharing

either like, you know, photos or takeaways or video content, they’re much more likely to pay attention to you and to wanna connect with you and to chat with you down the road. You can’t do that with everyone and nor should you, you

shouldn’t like spam or be s stockish, but pick a few people who you know, who you respect and who you wanna get to know a little bit better. and yeah, I, I think it does require, so that level of kind of being a little strategic, which I know sounds creepy when it comes

to networking, but I think you need to be a little strategic about your networking.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I totally get it.

Paul Gowder: well let, let’s shift now from a big conference like social media marketing, where, let’s talk about a, a smaller one. Uh, losing the, in the comments there. Let’s talk about something like Momentum where it’s a a 50 person maxed one room. And it’s not even, maybe not [00:21:00] a conference, but more of a workshop, but we’re all in the same room.

So what kind of draws you to that, Katie? And, and what do you, what do you think people can get out of something like a, a different kind of event like that one.

Katie Fawkes: Oh my gosh. I love Momentum. Lou co cover your ears so that you don’t feel

embarrassed by all that. But this is, I mean, this is one of my all time favorite events. I have been singing its praises since I went, I had no idea what to expect actually going into Momentum. Jeff had talked about it for a long time. I obviously, you know, Lou has been an Ecamm customer for a while. I have, I have seen his shows. I have been like in his sphere, but I don’t, I don’t think I fully appreciated until I went to Momentum. The difference between a really, like a small mastermind type event experience and you know, and these sort of larger conferences. And what I found really special about Momentum and what I continue to, to love about that event is that it does, it feels immediately. Inclusive. And so if you don’t have a group [00:22:00] of people find an event like this that is in a topic or an industry that, that matters to you or that you want to be in, or that you’re in and attend, because an event like that, you know, there were people right from, I think it was Jennifer, right when I first got there, was like, oh, hey Katie, she recognized me from, you know, from my photo on the website.

She immediately invited me out for dinner with them that evening with a group that, you know, that was there that had been often, there was, at no point did I feel like I was not welcomed at the table, at meals in the sessions. I, Lou I just really like, again, as someone who’s, I’m a little, I can be a little bit standoffish sometimes in that I’m like, worried that I’m gonna be bothering people or that I won’t know the right thing to say, or that people don’t wanna talk to me or they wanna focus and learn. And an event like that just doesn’t allow you to be anything, but all in

all right, Lou.

Does this thing that I hate, I still hate it, even though I

love it, I hate it. he makes you stand up and [00:23:00] say like, why, who you are and why you’re gonna be there. And I’m on video all the time. And the idea of standing up and even after I stood up and said that, everyone else was saying, you know, why they were there.

And I was like, oh, that’s better. That’s

Jeff Sieh: I’m stealing that. Yeah.

Katie Fawkes: I’m stealing that. But I, so I, I think like small events offer both the people that are there as well as the people who are creating the event, the opportunity to, to make a much more friendly, welcoming experience than a large event is able to. So I just, momentum is a great example of this where everyone is there to learn from each other. The, you know, the connections run deep and the connections stay long after,

long after the event wraps. So, great job, Lou.

I think you did a really amazing

Jeff Sieh: gosh. We’ll never hear the end of it. And so even, even Chad has, uh, drunk, drunk, the, the Kool-Aid. Chad’s a great guy who’s a momentum. He goes, love momentum. Been looking forward to seeing you all again. It’s like, it is, like it’s summer camp, coming home. A lot of times for some of these, the, the question is, Katie, you kind of brought it up ’cause you’re like what Lou does and makes you that one point where it’s kind of uncomfortable.

[00:24:00] There’s this, I’ve seen this kind of trend and we’ll talk about this when we get to the kind of the trends of event. But, a lot of them are straddling the line and Lou does this masterfully where you’re, it’s not something that’s gonna make you break down in tears and run out. Like, it’s not like, even if you’re an introvert, it’s very, it’s not, it’s not like you’re in a spotlight and you have to go up on stage and like write on the board, like solve math equations or something like that.

But there are some, I’ve seen smaller conferences that are almost making it feel like squid games. Like you’ve gotta do all these things and it’s a competition and all, and I’m like, I don’t, there’s, ’cause like if I’m an introvert, there’s no way that if I hear that there’s like a competition that I’m gonna go ’cause I wanna go and maybe go outta my comfort zone a little bit.

I don’t want to go. what, have you seen that too? Have you noticed that too? A little bit about some of like the smaller conferences that are making it like, really like, yeah, we were camping on a beach and you don’t, there’s only one thing of water and like, you know, you have to fight to the death. I’m like, I don’t know about that kind of event.

Katie Fawkes: Yeah, I, I mean, I am actually a little bit guilty of this CCRA at Creator Camp last [00:25:00] year. one of the pieces of feedback that I really took to heart and, and that like, it certainly wasn’t our intention to create this experience, but we did, we did make it a little bit more competitive between our cabin groups, and we have like really fun, awesome prizes so people were like all in and it, it did get a little bit out of control in the competitiveness.

And I do think that you’re right, that creates kind of an experience where it might not feel as like welcoming and fun for certain people, as, you know, as we had planned to do it. So, I think you’re right. I think it, it, there. We’re all trying to build, if you’re in event, in events at all, and especially if you’re planning or building an event of your own, we’re all trying to create some kind of experience for people that is, you know, memorable and makes them want to like both have a great time and tell friends and come back again.

Right.

So I think it, it is very, it’s a fine line to walk between what Lou does brilliantly, which is like getting people to kind of come outta their shells and get people to get to know each other better. And, you know, and [00:26:00] you could easily get into a space where, you know, that goes off the rails and,

and you create, you know, a bad

experience for it.

So it is a fine line and I think it’s tricky for a lot of us to figure out how to position an event and what the experience is gonna be like, and then follow through on that all the way,

to the end. So,

Jeff Sieh: and I, and I was actually, I did it like my talk like five times Ian and I did. So I don’t, didn’t see all of it, but, um, I didn’t get that feeling. So don’t beat yourself up too much about

that. I

thought most people had a great time and it was, there was competition, but it was more like camp competition.

It wasn’t like, you know, survivor, even though Liz was there. We didn’t have, we didn’t vote anybody out of camp.

Katie Fawkes: no, to be, I’m like, I’m not, I’m not bothered by the feedback. I think it was great feedback and we get a bunch of, we have a bunch of fun changes coming to Creator camp this year as a result of it. But I do think it’s, it is funny because the group of people that attend our event are super competitive, and so

it’s like even a little thing

goes off into a big thing.

So it, it’s just something to, to keep, you know, it’s something to keep an eye on. And I think it, it is [00:27:00] a, a, unique challenge for small events is that you want it to be this really, you know, incredible, memorable experience, but it, but you are pulling

together a small group of people and who you’re empowering them to have, you know, a little bit more involvement in your event than a large

event.

So,

Jeff Sieh: And Lu’s cabin always cheats too, by the way. And she, they always do. They always, there’s cheat. So anyway. Good. Paul.

Paul Gowder: Yeah, so I’m coming to Creator Camp for the first time this year. Jeff, uh, heard him talk about it for, for a long time and, you know, kind of describe to me as, momentum esque with a little bit more, a little bit bigger and a little bit more breakout sessions in different speakers. So, us, you know, a little bit more about creator camp.

What, what kind of inspired you guys to do it this way and, and what, what do you want, uh, attendees to take away? Or what, what are they gonna get in terms of their skills, their community and, and all of that?

Katie Fawkes: Oh my gosh. Well, so Creator camp started, and props to, to Duck ’cause he really like was, the Cobra brainchild of this endeavor. But, you know, duck and I had [00:28:00] been going out to all of these different large events like social media marketing worlds, um, back and we, you know, because. because. EAM has such a robust community, everyone was like, wanted to know where we were, wanted us to do these kinds of, you know, meetups.

So they, they wanted a, an opportunity to actually see each other in real life, spend time together, particularly on the other side of the pandemic when people had been

locked up and, you know, not, not able to see each other in real life. And so we had done a couple of these, these kinds of events, with a, a really good level of success.

We had done these, you know, events where we had like some workshop elements, a lot of just spending time together, you know, good food, good drinks, and, and lots of laughs and silliness. And so we were like, I, you know what, I think we, we could actually, instead of just going to these events and doing these kinds of popups alongside them, we could just create our own event. But, you know, we’re, we have this really fun community. We’re in a really fun, space. I mean, video in general a allows for a lot of creativity and personality. And so the more we talk about it, the [00:29:00] more we’re like, I, you know, we just really want it to feel. Like camp like this, this excitement and fun of like, you’re going, you know, you’re going somewhere where you’re gonna have fun.

You’re getting away from everything for a bit. you’re gonna learn and have some, some ideas of, of mentorship. That was really important to us, that it wasn’t like us talking about these topics, it was people within the community were, you know, were giving their feedback and were sharing their knowledge.

And so the, the idea of like camp counselors and the idea of, learning from each other and workshop driven, but having this. Campy, for lack of a

better word, theme throughout the entire thing, kind of, spawned. And so we’re about to go into year three. It does look a little bit different this year, uh, based on some great feedback that we got from the last, the last couple of years.

But the concept is the same, is that we really want people to understand that we are all in this really creative, incredible space. We have tons of opportunities to be able to bring content to life, connect with people, spend time with, with people, we can learn from each other. So, you know, someone who’s [00:30:00] brand new can teach something to someone who has been at it for years, and people who are in all different industries have all different perspectives to give.

So we are gonna take people this year through the journey of video creation from, planning and storyboarding all the way through to marketing. but we are, we are Hogwarts style splitting people

up into, into different personalities. And so we have a, a fun quiz to take to really understand. How you approach the, the concept of creating content, whether you are a planner, a presenter, or a producer. And all that is gonna do is really give you good lane to be in as you approach the event. So, and our counselors this year are representations of those categories. And so you’re gonna learn from some amazing people, but you’re also gonna see real world examples from people that you can directly relate to.

So, how someone like me, I’m, I’m much more of a presenter, and so how I approach planning is gonna look really different than how a planner approaches planning and how I, you know, how I approach [00:31:00] marketing is gonna look really different than a producer, right?

So like a producer is gonna love all of the editing, and

I’m like, absolutely not.

So we’re gonna. We’re gonna go on this journey together over three days. We have all kinds of fun and silliness along the way, but the idea is that it’s none of this is one size fits all. No one is doing it wrong. No one is doing it a hundred percent right either. And we’re all gonna learn from each other and we’re gonna get some great examples along the way.

So I think it’s gonna be a blast. We have some fun things up, up our sleeve and

hopefully, hopefully you’ll leave Paul feeling as excited, as other events that you go to.

Jeff Sieh: So even, uh, Mr. Luma, says he’s so excited

Katie Fawkes: We.

Jeff Sieh: Camp. I know. I mean, yeah. So by the way, she mentioned a bunch of, you know, there’s a lot of different personalities in, creator camp, and so we’ve got this really quick video to show you, some of those personalities, uh, for you. [00:32:00] [00:33:00] So very, very cool. If you guys wanna find out more about that, I think there’s, oh, that’s the wrong one. A couple of tickets left at [00:34:00] ecam.com/camp. You can find out all about it there. you noticed on there, I actually shot that at Kit Studios. They have some really cool things at in Boise. So if you noticed, uh, there were some cameos there of Mr.

Paul and Lou. I don’t know, they snuck in or whatever, but,that they were there. That was a lot of fun to shoot. So, as you can tell, we’re very, very excited about it. It’s always so much fun. So e camm.com/camp. How many tickets are left, Katie? Not many.

Katie Fawkes: I think you were at 2018, somewhere in there.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And so they’re gone. They’re gone, folks. So you need to go and sign up. ’cause it, it really is fun. it’s a, it’s a blast. So Creator Camp, we would love to see you there, by the way. Um, you can find out more about Ecamm, but eec camm.com shift. Jeff, I didn’t mean to hit that button, but I did. Okay. we’re gonna talk now about, we kind of touched on what to do at a conference and why the bigger or smaller conferences are better or worse, or what you get from each one of them, but I wanna talk about. You know, networking is such a business term and it sounds sleazy, so I like to say community building or relationship building, but it says, studies show that 52% of [00:35:00] event attendees say that networking or, or relating with people is a top reason that they invest time in conferences.

So in your experience, why is this in-person networking so powerful for creators and marketers, people trying to grow their business? So how have those relationships you’ve built, Katie impacted your career or your co collaborations that you’ve done for your business?

Katie Fawkes: Oh my gosh. all of it. it’s it’s all, it’s all, you know, thanks to the people that I know and the, you know, and the relationships that I’ve built with them, I, I mean, really, I would not have a job at EAM. It had not been for the relationship that hilariously my husband really built with, with Ken first.

And, you know, and I, I think it really comes down to, I know it’s, it’s probably cliched for a lot of people who are in the marketing space, but if you’re not, I, it comes down to we buy. From people we know, like, and trust, right? And so we also recommend based on people we know, like, and trust. [00:36:00] So the idea of getting a job, getting a client, selling a, you know, selling a service, selling a product, you are way more likely to get a foot in the door and to actually get to that Yes, based on the relationships that you have.

Relationships. And so I’ve just been incredibly lucky in that the people that I’ve, you know, that I’ve met, that I’ve been introduced to, have introduced me to more people that they know and like, and trust and my network has built as a result of that. But these are people that, like, I know I can get on a call with anyone that’s within, you know, my community and they would do anything for me

in the same way that I would do anything for them.

And so, and the, these are the people that I’m immediately thinking of when I have, you know, projects that I need. When I hear that, like a company is looking for xx role, like I, the, these are, these are the people that I go to. And likewise the, you know, when I am, when I need something, I am, I am the person that people are recommending to be, you know, in podcast interviews,

to be on [00:37:00] stages. people are like, oh, you know, I really wanna get into video production and podcasting. Ecamm is recommended because of the relationships that I’ve built. Because of the relationships that Ken and Glenn have built, that a doc has built, like, it, it really makes a huge, huge difference. It is no small thing.

It is,

I I would say 90% of how business is done is in the actual people and not in,

not in any of the glitzy marketing or any of the sales or advertising or any of that. It comes down to the people.

Jeff Sieh: right. One of the things I just finished reading, uh, Sahi Blooms, I think it his, his name, his five types of wealth. And one of the things he, he really talks about is the social relationships and the relationships you have and how we don’t consider that a type of wealth, but we really need to. And I’ve really taken that to heart.

And, one of the things is, it always blows my mind is we, we have these almost life changing moments or like people go to Camp Creator Camp or Momentum and they’re like, oh my gosh, I, I don’t ever want this to end. It’s almost like that summer camp thing. Like, oh, I have to go home, kind of thing. But the thing is, is a lot of [00:38:00] people don’t.

I mean, I have formed, I’m in a mastermind with Eric Fisher and Anthony Witt that I formed when we went. I went to Social Media Market World for the first time. So it’s over 10 years. We’ve been meeting every Monday together because of

that. And so, and then like with Paul and Momentum, like the, the group we have is a lot of the momentum attendees and people we’ve met, like Jim Fs, I hang out with conferences at him before.

And so, I think the, the one thing that people don’t realize is you can form a mastermind from the people that you. You meet at events and you can, you can continue it. Like I remember when I, in Longview, Texas is where I’m from, there aren’t a lot of people who do what I do. Like it can feel really, really lonely, right?

Like, and Paul, like you, you’re running this huge thing, but there’s probably a lot, a lot of people that you can go talk about this like in your PTA or you know, whatever. so I think it’s really important for this and you can, and you can form these relationships from these events I have. And there’s no reason why you can’t.

So Paul, I want you to talk about like what are some of the amazing things [00:39:00] and connections you’ve made at events, like have impacted your career or collaborations that you’ve done?

Paul Gowder: Yeah, it, it’s, it’s huge. I mean, having that network, network of people not just that are supportive of me when I’m at an event makes me feel a little more comfortable. But then when I get back, you know, those are, you know, I was thinking about what Katie was talking, these are people, like, she said, like, you buy from.

So when I need a service, like I’ve, Connor has done writing for me before. Tim Begonia that I met at Momentum has done some graphics for me. So not only are are we supporting each other with, you know, getting on calls or whatever, but these are people that I trust with my business. So yeah, huge.

But then also even, you know, these. I was saying, I, I saw, I sought out several people at Craft and Commerce and one of those people has already helped me get a, a sponsorship that was, was a pretty good size one. And, I’m working with the Semetrics people and they’re giving me some feedback.

I’m doing some stuff with Mighty Networks, you know, so yeah, these relationships are really important. but, you know, even on the smaller, we think [00:40:00] smaller, but the things that really, really make an impact are having people like you and Connor and Lou that at any time I can just call you guys and ask a question, bounce an idea off.

That is big. ’cause Yeah, here in, in Lexington, South Carolina, there’s, there aren’t a lot of people in this space, so it’s really great to have other people that, that know what I do and I can ask questions. And so yeah, these relationships are so important. and conferences are a great place to, to find those people.

Jeff Sieh: In fact this, um, once again, he’s, I’m just, his head’s gonna get so big, but like Lou actually out of the blue just sent me a message ’cause he’s on a plane. He says, Hey, I have this great idea about a AI course that you could do via email. And he kind of broke it down for me. Like, that’s just amazing that your friends are even thinking about your business.

They don’t have to, but because you have this relationship, they know you, they know what you’re working on and they can help you create new things. So I tell you, those, those things are worth their weight in gold. And those are, that’s what’s important. [00:41:00] About my opinion, life is the relationships you make along the way.

we’ve got some great, comments I want to pull up really quick. Like Pat says, I love attending conferences, events for networking, meeting people and building relationships, but I would rather be in line at home to listen to speakers and learn new things. No distractions. I lot of people feel that way.

In fact, I love it when I get recordings of the, the, uh, sessions that I go to because I, I usually can’t write notes fast enough or processing, or sometimes I skip it because I wanna talk to Katie and Paul in the hallway more than I wanna go see some new widget that’s been, you know, but I wanna know about it.

But I’d rather spend time with, uh, the people around me. So that’s very important.

Katie Fawkes: That’s actually a great, a great comment. I, so we’ve been going to all these different events and, then as we were planning out creator camp, one of the things that Ken, uh, our co-founder said to me, he’s like, just, just keep in mind that anyone that goes to these events, like they have YouTube,

at any point they can go online and learn about all of these things.

They can search any of these topics. They can sit and watch all these videos. They have the ability [00:42:00] to, to, to learn these things at home. So what makes an event special and memorable are the experiences that they’re having face-to-face with other people. So either the content that you are creating at your event is not available online or is like, is some kind of, you know, experience that’s only in person, only in person, or. Like, and or it you’re creating and, and facilitating the ability for people to get to know each other better and spend time

together. otherwise there’s no point for people to go. Like, what makes in-person events still so popular on the other side of a pandemic is that people want to have a face-to-face connection with folks.

Like they, they really do wanna be able to spend time together, even if they are introverted and

at the end of the day, they’re exhausted. They still, we still crave that level of connection and understanding and relatability and, and it matters to be face-to-face. Otherwise we could, we could just get absolutely everything online and that might be the best way to actually learn a lot of

that stuff.

I think that point is totally valid. [00:43:00] Maybe it’s way easier in person, online to be able to just watch those videos and learn that, pause them, get what you need to out of it. then events for you might be just going to be able to actually have those experiences.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And I think that with the rise of ai, being able to pull content like the, we wanna learn from, like, I just use perplexity just to figure out stuff that I think that’s great. We’re gonna have all this information, but we really need these human connections. And like I said, you can go to a conference and, you know, meet the people.

You don’t have to say goodbye to ’em. You can jump on a Zoom call next Tuesday.

Katie Fawkes: Yeah.

Jeff Sieh: When you get back if you want, because, a lot of times keeping that rolling is where the, the benefit, really comes into play. So I wanna talk about, some really practical things because you, you have mentioned this many times, but you’ve said the best part of any event is the people.

spending time with colleagues, customers, friends, is kind of all of our favorite part of the conferences. So meeting new people, and this is really important for us to hear what as well, because like, I’ll go to a conference and Paul and Katie and Lou will be there, and I’ll want to like, Hey, let’s [00:44:00] go get dinner.

And it’s really easy to exclude people. Like, no more friends we’re, we, we’re good. You know, but that’s not, that’s not good. So how do you approach meeting new people and building relationships when you’re at an event? Like, let’s get really practical for people who may be that really uncomfortable. Like, I.

You know, I and I and some people scrape together. Like it’s not cheap to go to these things, so you have to pick the right conference that you, you really have to think about what’s gonna be the best for you and your business. But then once you have, what are some really practical ways to meet other people?

I’ll go first. Mine is, I like to look at when I’m like in, in the momentum and there’s some new people there. If you look on the fringes who aren’t like engaging, if you go there over there, engage one, you’ll have a friend for life usually because they feel really awkward going. And I’ve been in those situations where you don’t know anybody and then you can, you know, you can just even ask like, where are you from?

How do you, and just continue the conversation and then have those touch points [00:45:00] when you’re walking the hallways, you have somebody you can wave to and like, what’d you think? Was that a good session? You know, but do that initial, okay. Who’s on the fringes with me? Who can I talk to? Katie, what’s, what’s your advice?

Katie Fawkes: I have three.

Jeff Sieh: Okay.

Katie Fawkes: Um, the, the first Yeah, I know. Sorry,

I’m that person. the keener, the first thing that I found benefit in was if you are more introverted or a little bit nervous about going up and introducing yourself to people, bring a inter, an extroverted or more vocal person that either knows people

at the event or feels more comfy, et cetera.

Like I’ve, the first few events I went to, I went with Doc who knew

everyone and intro and like, and was like, and, and I told him. Like, I’m not great. I’m not good at this. I like, I need for you to put me outta my comfort zone. Like, I need for you to be you and walk me up to people and introduce me. And that made a huge difference. The second was that I now leverage all of my, you know, email, social media, et cetera, and I just say, I’m gonna be at this event.

I like, I want to meet you. [00:46:00] And it never ceases to amaze me. The people who never have posted any kind of comments on my platform or like, or I don’t even know are

following me, like end up like being at the event.

They may not even reply back to my comment, but I’ve had people who have come up to me at events and been like, oh, I’m so happy that you’re here. Like I am. You know, so and so I follow you, et cetera. You might not know who is

watching you or who, like a friend of a friend is watching you. So put it out there that you’re gonna be there and that you want to meet people. Put it out there, just be really public and put it out there. So even if you’re not feeling comfortable, have other people come up to you

and say that they’re, I’m excited to meet you. And then the third one that I, like is like a really simplistic thing, but I often will think in my head, like, there’ll be someone that walks by and I’m like, oh my gosh, like he has the coolest shoes, or she’s got awesome hair.

Or like, I’m, I’m people

watching. I’m just standing there being like, oh, that I now will just walk up to them and say it. I, like, I, I, in my mind, I’m having a small breakdown, but I just walk up. [00:47:00] No one is upset that you’ve gone up to them and said that you like their bag or that you

think whatever. And like, and it starts a conversation.

Nothing might come of it. They might just say, oh, thank you, and then continue walking. No worries. You’ve gotten a little bit more comfortable with it and it’s just such an easy thing to do. And I’m sure that. Especially at like a larger event, there are people that like, have something that you think is cool.

Whether they’re like holding something, using something, talking like doesn’t matter. Go up to them and tell them something that you think is cool about them. Whether you don’t even have to introduce yourself. You can literally just say, I think your shoes are cool, cool shoes,

whatever. Uh, it, it goes a long way and made it, made me feel a little bit more comfortable in starting some of those conversations in a way that felt less, you know, gave them control and made them feel special as well,

which I think goes a long way.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Or you can grow a beard. That’s what I did.

Katie Fawkes: Yeah. Awesome

Jeff Sieh: so funny

Katie Fawkes: love that beard.

Jeff Sieh: in the elevator, it’s really funny. I’ve had so many drunk women at a conference come up and try to, and they wanna touch it. And that’s when I,

they reach f they, I go, I go, yeah, you can touch it. And they reach for [00:48:00] it. And I go, Adam, and they fall over.

It is the most hilarious thing. So if you’re in the elevator with me, that’s, that’s what we’ll do.

Katie Fawkes:

Jeff Sieh: what about you? What are some of your, uh, like, I mean, ’cause Paul, if you guys don’t know, he streams, powwows across the country live.

He’s got, yeah, like, he’s a big deal. He’s got a million, Facebook group, like he is the bomb.

but Paul, because you go to these events a lot and big events like POWs are not small. what, what are some of your tips for meeting new people, uh, introducing yourself, that kind of thing?

Paul Gowder: Yeah. And, and I, I’m not good at this. I have to force myself to go and, and talk with people. I, I don’t like doing that. so one of the things that has helped is I, I think y’all mentioned it, is, is having a wingman or having somebody in your circle that you’re with. I I, I was, you know, at Pod Fest this year, I grabbed Lou and said, Lou, take me and intro introduce me to this person.

And so that, that helped. but I also, like I mentioned earlier, I sit down beforehand and make a list of some of the things I want to go and do, some of the people I want to, and so I [00:49:00] will. That then I can challenge myself and I say like, I know that I’m going to go and talk to, Chanel that does the Growth in Reverse podcast.

and here’s what I’m going to ask her and I’m going to, you know, so I do that ahead of time. But then the other thing, Katie, talking about wearing, you know, mentioning people’s stuff, my Roosevelt shirts, I, I don’t have a Disney Roosevelt on today. I’ve got a different Roosevelt on today. But having, like wearing Disney ones, it helps put myself out there.

And you never, Disney is one of those things that everybody will talk to you about. And so that’s one of those things that I can, people will start a conversation with me and it helps, you know, just get, get that conversation going as we can talk Disney, we can relate to that. or if I’m wearing a Star Wars shirt, you know, I’ll get comments about that too.

so that’s one of the things I I, one of the reasons I wear those shirts, besides the fact that they’re just cool shirts, but it does kind of make me put myself out there and be a little more visible.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah,

Katie Fawkes: love that. Make yourself memorable and approachable. Yeah.

Jeff Sieh: to be honest, that’s why I did grow the beard because I knew like Jay Bear, you know, he’s got, [00:50:00] the crazy suits that he wears for when he does his speaking events. like, gosh, uh, Phil Gerber Shank has the white glasses. Dustin Stout, I dunno if he still does it, but he used to wear a Red V-neck that he’d go wear it to every conferences.

I’m like, well. I guess I gotta do something. So this is now I can’t ever shave, which is the thing. But anyway. so I wanna kind of talk now about some trends that we’re seeing in this last kind of questions. you know, a lot of people want me more meaningful connections. They, they prefer like, peer meetups over old, like school speed networking, dating kind of thing.

So as an event organizer, what other examples do you know of that you’ve seen that do it really well? You know, we’ve mentioned momentum. creator camp does it really well. I, I know Justin Moore did his, um, oh God, it was sponsor, it was sponsor games. He did one where it was like kinda the competition we talked about.

So are there any other cool things that you’ve seen in the event space for, who really want to connect and not just learn, but actually connect with their [00:51:00] peers?

Katie Fawkes: I wouldn’t sleep on some of these like, very niche or, or like, I, I hesitate to say industry specific spaces, but, I’m a huge book nerd. I like absolutely Live and Die in, in reading. And I spend, I, I read a lot and spend a ton of time with books and it’s been really interesting to watch what’s happening in the, in the book space, in the books to Gram and book Talk and

all of these spaces with readers specific to events.

Because there have been a ton of people who have been incredibly successful in building these like weekend long or week long book retreats where they have figured out that there is an audience of people who just want an excuse to get away and read a book. And they, like, many of them are even marketed as like, you won’t even spend, like, you don’t even have to spend time with other people.

Like other people will be there reading, but you don’t even have to talk

to them. Like everyone is, everyone is reading and they do like yoga together and they do all these things together. It’s a great example of. The power of kind of finding, finding your people and finding a [00:52:00] niche. And so whe you know, whether that’s, you know, Disney, whether that’s reading, whether that’s, you know, what, whatever, you know, your hobby or your thing is. I think that there’s some really cool things happening in some of these spaces where people are just finding ways to spend time together in more kind of authentic, away from all of the digital noise and the screens and all of the, you know, their day-to-day commitments to be able to just enjoy each other’s time and enjoy things that they have in common.

I like, I do a scrapbooking retreat once a year where

we go away for three days and we just get to scrapbook all day and hang out with people and like, and we don’t have to clean anything up. We keep everything out.

And they’re like, but there’s, you know, it’s, again, it’s an instance of finding your people and getting to like, work collaboratively on a project that we all

care about everyone that’s there.

So I, I think there’s, I’m sure that there are in every single one of these niches there. There’s a cool movement. It seems like that’s happening now

where we’re maybe more in the kind of retreat space of [00:53:00] events as a, a getaway and an opportunity to recharge and be, you know, spend time together and be, be with your people, be with people who have, you know, you have a ton of stuff in common with, which I think is really cool and I’m super excited for,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. One of the things I will say, oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Paul.

Paul Gowder: I was, that’s one of the things I really liked about craft and commerce is in their app, they let, individual participants kind of make their own meetup. So there was, you know, a book meetup. somebody went, did organize a hike. So if you wanted to kind of find your people, that was a really easy way to do it.

and you could go to these topic-based meetups and, and it’s an easier way to put yourself out there as, as opposed to, you know, being in a crowd of 500 and trying to find somebody to talk to.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. One of the things, I’ll go back to the book, the five types of wealth that I read was that I don’t think, for me, as I get older, it’s just not, I mean, cash flow is important. Don’t get me wrong. We gotta make money, but you also have to find your people. And the other thing is, is when you find your people, you have to nurture it.

You have to keep it up. It’s, [00:54:00] it’s not something that you can just like let people come to me. You have to work at, it’s, it’s something you have to work at, but oh my gosh, it is so fulfilling and it makes your business bloom because you’re just not, it’s, it’s the water that makes your business grow is what I think is relationships is because the.

When people know what you’re doing and your struggles and can help you, and you could do business with them. I mean, Paul and I run a paid mastermind because of a conference we went to. We enjoy each other’s comfort company, we understand each other’s business, and we help each other grow. And that, I mean that, I mean, we do that on my Monday and Fridays are my favorite days of the week ’cause I get to do this show.

And then Monday we have the, we have our mastermind and it’s just a great group of people in there. So seriously, folks, if you’re not a part, if you, if you can find a conference like camp or Momentum or whatever, you need to go to it and really work on, on finding your people and then nurture those relationships because oh my gosh, it makes life so much more, uh, worth living and by that worth living.

We’re at the end of time. Katie Fox, you have [00:55:00] been amazing as always. Tell people where people can find you. Tell ’em about camp, all the things that is Katie Fox.

Katie Fawkes: Well, you can find me under all things Ecamm, E-C-A-M-M, all, all of the socials. If you wanna learn more about camp, you can email me directly, katie@ecamm.com, or you can swing over to ecamm.com/camp eca.com/camp. wanna hang out with me personally, I, uh, I do a nineties, eighties, and nineties movie review podcast

on Thursday nights called the VHS Club Podcast. You can find me there at the vhs club pod.com. and I, I’m a weird and wonderful person over on Instagram. You can find me under Canadian Fox, F-A-W-K-E-S. I’d love to hang out more and I, I’m all in on the crazy hobbies, so I’m,

I’m in on crocheting and chicken keeping and duck keeping and traveling and photography and everything in between.

So

come, come be weird with me.

Jeff Sieh: Paul, what about you?

Paul Gowder: Uh, yeah. So if you’re in interested in some of the things I do, paul gatter.com, I’m also, working [00:56:00] on a new thing that you guys, uh, you both joined, um, building that community where we can have those, hallway conversations can keep ’em going. So if you’re interested in that, um, I’m still testing it out, but, you can find that over on, uh, on the way community.com.

Jeff Sieh: And don’t forget about Creator Camp. you can find out about that amp.com/camp. Paul and I and Katie will be there. Paul and I are also gonna be at CX this year, which, and, and Lou will be there as well. Lou’s gonna be at camp too, but we’re excited about that. So we have some conferences still where you can come up to us and, and come up to us and say, Hey, I saw you on the show, uh, I loved what you said.

And then we will connect you with people. Like if you’re like at a conference that we’re at and you’re like, Jeff, I’ve always wanted to met, meet Pat Flynn. I’ll be like, you know what, I’ve always wanted meet him too. Let’s go meet him together. So we’ll go and do that. So, um, thank you guys so much. Thank you, pat.

Pat Mills, we thank you Paul Duncan for showing up. Lou, of course, Chad Williams, all you folks who showed up. Thank you for Katie for being such a great,guest today. And thank you for EAM m for sponsoring the show. We will see you guys next time. [00:57:00] Bye everybody.