Do you feel like everyone is shouting, but no one is listening? Especially businesses online? Do you want to be the business or brand that people actually want to connect with?

On this week’s Social Media News Live, our friend Brooke Sellas shares how she’s helped billion-dollar companies connect with the online communities that discuss, influence, and buy their brands.

Social media listening and customer care are the subjects of her brand new book, Conversations That Connect, so we’re pushing everyone to our Amazon Live channel, so you have a chance to buy Brooke’s book! Join us at


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to another edition of Social Media. News Live. I am so excited to have you guys with us today. Um, we have, uh, uh, I think she’s been on, this is her third time I think, to this show. I mean, she is like a, she’s like the, I think the person we’ve had on the most, maybe Eric Fisher’s been on more, but.

[00:00:16] He doesn’t really count. But anyway, I’m so excited to have Brooke on the show with us today. Um, I’m gonna go ahead and get started because I want you guys to do something for me. This is kind of a special thing. Grace isn’t here, so I get a tinker with things. She doesn’t get on me for this. Um, but I want you guys to go here.

[00:00:33] If you’re watching us on these other platforms, why don’t you go to Jeff Because today we’re talking all about Brook’s brand new book. Well, it’s in June or July. Uh, but anyway, go to Jeff because that’s where I am on Amazon and you can actually get her book. Right there down below it’s, it’s highlighted right now.

[00:00:50] It’s going live in the carousel and so I want you guys to watch this over on Amazon Live. I would love it if you would follow me over there, but the main reason I want you guys to go over there is to get Brook’s book. The more I read and I get, I’ve known Brook forever. But the more I get to know her and see what she does, she is wicked smart and it’s almost scary, uh, how smart she is.

[00:01:11] And this book just proves it. It’s one of those ones. If you have anything to do with marketing, customer service, if you run a business, this is the one that you need to get. Um, and we’re gonna talk all about that today. But I want you guys to ask your questions. We’re gonna be talking about customer service, the customer journey, uh, some cool stuff she.

[00:01:29] Figured out like way back in college and stuff. So anyway, uh, this is gonna be very, very exciting. Go to Jeff and uh, join us there. So you guys can do this, but I’m gonna go ahead and hit go on the podcast machine and we’ll get started. Lemme get everything back to normal and here we go. Welcome to Social Media News Live.

[00:01:50] I’m Jeff C and you’re not. And this is the show that keeps you up to date in the world of social media. Today we’ll be talking with Brooke b Sellis about her new book, conversations That Connect, how to Connect, converse, and Convert through social Media listening and social led customer care. By the way, we are talking about this all over on Amazon Live, so you can get her book, you can watch the replay over.

[00:02:12] If you’re listening to the podcast, go to Jeff to, uh, go over there and, and check us out. That’s Jeff. And the last name is spelled S as in Sam, i e h, dot live. I before E, especially in C. That’s how my mom taught me to say it in kindergarten. So, um, Brooke, so excited that you’re here today. Thank you so much for joining us.

[00:02:32] thank

[00:02:32] Brooke Sellas: you for having me back for the third time. I feel. I know. Isn’t that amazing? Yeah. I feel super special actually. so .

[00:02:40] Jeff Sieh: So, because you’re, like I said in the, the kind of the preamble is that you’re wicked smart and we’ve got our friend showing up the amazing, uh, Brian Ferrell. He’s, uh, are you at Barcelona back or are you in Spain?

[00:02:52] I don’t know. He’s a world traveler. He’s amazing photographer. Um, thanks Brian for joining with us and our good friend Gary Stockton. This is, I know it’s gonna be a show for you because you work for some of these big companies. You do amazing marketing stuff. So ask your questions of Brooke because, uh, this, she’s smart.

[00:03:09] I’ve said this, I’ll say this numerous times during this thing. She’s just super impressive. So make sure, thank you, Gary, for watching. Us today, but we’re gonna be talking about her book Conversations That Connect. Once again, it is highlighted underneath us at, uh, on Amazon, on Amazon Live, Jeff You can go follow us there and Gary says, I’m, I’m blushing.

[00:03:27] So if you don’t know Brooke, you should because she is the In the Trenches founder and CEO of B Square, just B squared media and award-winning social media advertising and customer care. Uh, her marketing mantra is Think Conversation non campaign. We’re gonna talk about that in a little bit, but be sure to give her a shout out on all of those socials.

[00:03:47] Brooke, welcome to the

[00:03:49] Brooke Sellas: show. Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be talking all things customer care and social listening and conversations that connect today. I mean, you know, it’s my jam. It’s been my jam for a long time. Long time. The whole conversation not campaign has been my jam for like over 10 years, so That’s right.

[00:04:04] Jeff Sieh: It’s, and I have been following, I remember when I met you the first time. We got to see each other in real life, in social media marketing world. I think it was on the aircraft carrier and it was just like, oh, cuz I’d seen you on all the socials on Twitter and everywhere for so long. So it was so, so much fun to, uh, meet you.

[00:04:18] Uh, one you mentioned. You know, community and kind of, um, customer care. And I wanted to do a shout out to our sponsors of the show, which is Ecamm. You can find all about them at, uh, slash Ecamm. But we just finished last week. Grace and I actually spoke there on their Leap into podcasting.

[00:04:35] It was all about video podcasting. They’re actually giving, you can get their replays. If you go to merch dot Ecamm dot com, there’s like, Guides. I think there’s a digital version for it. You know, I think maybe 20, 25 bucks. And then there’s a print version for 30, but it gives you access to all the replays, like multiple years.

[00:04:50] So if you’re interested in podcasting, you need to go check that out at merch dot Ecamm dot com. Uh, once again, they’re the sponsor for show. We big shout out to them for uh, helping us that way. So. Alright. All right. Conversations that connect. What I wanted to know, first of all, Brooke, is what made you decide to write this book, you know, specifically this book.

[00:05:11] Brooke Sellas: Well, I had been wanting to write a book for so long, Chris Pin, who you, I know. You know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Is a good friend of mine in the marketing space, and I think it was at Social Media Marketing World. That same trip when I got to meet you, I R L. Was saying to me, you know, you really should write a book.

[00:05:29] And so he kind of planted that seed and it took, you know, all those years to finally just go and, and, and do it. Because the doing part is obviously, you know, difficult, not fun. Right, right. But I’m so glad I did because you get to take all of this knowledge that you have in your head and put it down.

[00:05:48] other people to Sharon, which is really what I tried to do with the book is like tell people, you know, in part one, here’s the psychology behind it, but in part two, like, and here’s how you can do it. Mm-hmm. , like, I pulled back the curtain and gave the step-by-step. Step-by-step instructions.

[00:06:03] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So how long did it take you to actually write this book?

[00:06:07] about a

[00:06:07] Brooke Sellas: year. Really? Yeah. It took me about a year. And you know what? I spent three months of that year on the outline alone. That would be my like author advice, is to spend the majority of your time on the outline, because I think that’s why I was able to get a book out in seven months is because I spent three of it on.

[00:06:25] on the outline itself, just making sure that like flow worked and I was getting everything that I wanted out there, and that I had the enough chapters and enough right information and all those

[00:06:34] Jeff Sieh: good things. So I wanted to ask you, because did you have like a team that you had like trickled chapters to, uh, that would mm-hmm.

[00:06:40] kind of look at it? Because I mean, you came on the show last time and you hadn’t even launched the book, but you gave Grace and I like an advanced copy to read like a PDF form. Did you have a whole team that kind of, like, you would go like, Hey, what do you think about this? Or how did you kind of Yes.

[00:06:52] Rolled out. Okay.

[00:06:53] Brooke Sellas: This was, it takes a village, I would say also. Mm-hmm. . Um, I had an amazing content editor who’s been a friend and client of mine for probably eight years, seven or eight years. Tanya Ponton. So shout out to Tanya. She was my content editor. Every word ran past her. Hmm. Um, and then I had somebody who helped me with Tanisha, who helped me with, uh, she’s a, what we call a sensitivity writer.

[00:07:16] Mm-hmm. . Um, I’m older, believe it or not, I’m 42. And so sometimes I have a habit of saying things. Privileged person, older person perspective. So I wanted to make sure that some of those sensitive topics that I talked about were being portrayed the way they should be. I had somebody who helped me with create all of the images, Chris, on our team, shout out to Chris, and then I had kin help me, as you and I were talking about before the show started with the Kindle Digital Imaging portion of it, because that was really important to me to get the digital images on Kindle correct, as we talked about.

[00:07:50] Right? Which doesn’t always happen.

[00:07:52] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, in fact, so I was, Brooks sent me a, a copy of it myself, and I’ve got, she even wrote a nice little thing on there for me, which is I thought was very, very cool. But I bought the Kindle edition because I actually. Uh, one, my wife makes me do that if I buy books, but I, my, I’m trained myself.

[00:08:07] I take my notes in Kindle now because I like to highlight things. I don’t like doing it in physical books. That’s one of my big pet peeves. And, um, uh, but it, I have a service that actually takes those notes and puts them to like a database where I can, it’s always surfaced in, in my mind that sends me emails and stuff.

[00:08:23] So that’s why I do it, and that’s why I buy the books, even if they’re sent to me because it’s that good folks. So make sure you guys, if you’re watching, by the way, I’ve got, uh, Brian over on. Uh, he’s over on Amazon Live, he said. Yeah, he’s back in the uk. But if you wanna join us and actually get Brooks Book, make sure that you go over to Jeff

[00:08:41] That’s where you’ll hook up with my Amazon storefront. We’re Streaming there live, so go watch it if you start here. I’m so happy that here, but this one time I want you to go over to Amazon Live so you can get Brooks books because it is that good. So one of the things. I wanted to talk about, um, and it’s funny, before we get started, I wanted to talk a little bit about transparency because I did not know this until I read your.

[00:09:03] Your first name is actually not Brooke, it’s Jennifer. And I almost wanted to change your lower third here on the title because I was like, oh, I’ll get her with Jennifer and throw her off. But I, so why so why did you lead with that in the book? But I thought it was really great because it talked about a little bit about transparency.

[00:09:19] Brooke Sellas: You know, it’s interesting, the, the, the way that I brought it up in the book was when we talk about the social penetration theory mm-hmm. , which I’m sure we’ll get into, into depth on, but, um, you know, a fact. is saying, my name is Brooke. And the interesting part about that theory is that it, a fact is not a fact unless it’s otherwise unknown.

[00:09:38] Mm-hmm. . So once I tell you that my name is Brooke, or that, by the way, my first name’s actually Jennifer, and I’ve gone by my middle name my whole life, which is Brooke. That fact is no longer a fact. If you hear it again, it becomes a cliche. And I thought that was important because if you look. At a lot of the branded content that we see on social media, it’s very factual based.

[00:09:57] Mm-hmm. , but it’s not considered a disclosure if it’s repetitive.

[00:10:01] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. . Yeah. I, I, so I, we’re gonna get into the social theory later, but because there’s a, there’s a lot of things that I want talk about, about that, but at the very beginning of the book you mentioned, um, and this is a direct quote that says, many analysts believe that the pandemic.

[00:10:17] Forward the rate of online interactions by at let’s, by at least three years, and in some industries by as many as 10 years. So this is a big deal. So can you talk a little bit about the impact of this for businesses in 2022, where we’re we’re at right now?

[00:10:33] Brooke Sellas: Yeah. I mean, if you look at. Really any of the marketing research that’s out there.

[00:10:37] What we’re seeing is that more and more people, even those who were a little more hesitant to shop online, mm-hmm. or do research online, have now turned to online channels to. shop, right? Really to take care of every, every kind of shopping. And I’m not just talking about, you know, buying small things from Amazon.

[00:10:55] I’m talking about high dollar purchases and luxury purchases as well, right? So as marketers, we need to push for digital transformation, but also understand all of. , the things that come along with doing digital transfer transformation correctly. And so, you know, when we’re talking about the digital customer journey, we’re talking about everything starting from awareness all the way through to, you know, retention, loyalty, aga advocacy.

[00:11:21] Mm-hmm. , it’s all happening online now, and I think a lot of people are only doing little bits, bits and pieces, whereas they need to look at it holistically for the entire journey to work and, and to do better with their market.

[00:11:33] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. So you, it was funny that when you, when you, when I saw this quote and I thought about how, you know many people because the pandemic have moved online, a lot of storage.

[00:11:41] Finally. I mean, I did really good business. A lot of people who were in the marketing space, who knew how to bring people online, do video online, all the stuff. Got a lot of business because everybody was scrambling to do it, you know, because yeah, that’s what was happening. The interesting thing is we talked, we were talking in kind of the green room before the show about like, I wear contacts like one hour on Fridays for this show.

[00:12:01] Um, but my optometrist and, you know, you’ve, you used to live in Texas, so you understand how big a deal this is. Yes. I was able to schedule my appointment and talk and send ’em my insurance card and all that stuff through my phone, like text messaging. Is really amazing for East Texas stock stuff, but I’m like, I, I even told him in the office, I said, you don’t understand how amazing this is for this area.

[00:12:22] And it’s so easy because everybody’s on there, but more and more companies have to do that, or their competitors are. .

[00:12:30] Brooke Sellas: Yeah. I mean, gosh, there’s so many things that we can look at as far as like what happened. Like, think about even just like grocery shopping, right? Mm-hmm. during the pandemic, a lot of us move to kind of like the online shopping, or you, you go, you know, get it delivered.

[00:12:43] You park into the, like, Walmart now has huge dedicated parking areas for the people who shop online and then come pick up mm-hmm. , you know, from their car. We, we started shopping, uh, through Amazon Whole Foods in the pandemic. Oh yeah. And honestly, . Even though things have gotten better, we haven’t stopped doing it because it’s so convenient.

[00:13:03] And I think that’s what we have to think about when we think about that digital customer journey and the path to purchase. How easy are you making it for someone to go from awareness to purchase? Yeah, and I think a lot of companies need to do a better job of that.

[00:13:17] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Are there, are there gonna be left behind?

[00:13:19] I mean, because their competitors are more than willing to get that business. By just doing that by, and all Walmart did was change the center section of. You know, where their shopping carts are, where, you know, people can drive up. Then they just put signs up and now, you know, they hire people to bring it out.

[00:13:33] So, I mean, for a small amount of change they were able to, you know, really make some convenience and drive some really, uh, great loyalty, I think for, for people who shop there. Um, one of the things you mentioned, and this is the same vein, . In your book it says Customer experience and customer loy loyalty are defined by their online experience.

[00:13:52] So that’s what we’ve been talking about, you know, the ease of use, all that stuff. And you mentioned many times in the book social led customer care. So can you explain what that means and how that is different from, let’s say, like traditional customer service? ,

[00:14:07] Brooke Sellas: certainly. So when we think about traditional customer service, we often think about like a call center, um, which we’re, you know, social ed customer care doesn’t replace that, by the way.

[00:14:16] Right? But what we’re seeing, again, because all of this digital transformation is happening, is that less people want to sit on hold and listen to your eyes. G hold music, right. For an hour and a half, you know, and there is also email, but as I, the prediction I make in the book is that, you know, in the next couple of years, I think social will take over email as the number one servicing channel.

[00:14:38] And that’s because of the quickness that is expected. And that sometimes happens on social media, right? If. wanna complain and we want an answer and we haven’t been able to get a response on phone or email. What do we do? We typically go to like Twitter, right? And we complain and we tag the brand because we know they’re going to be probably more responsive there than they have been through phone or email.

[00:15:01] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. . Yeah, I agree. So, and we’re, I wanna, we’re gonna get into that later. Cause I, there’s an example that I wanted to, to ask you about, but the other thing that I found fascinating and I, and you’ve been using this for years, the think convers. Not compa, uh, campaign. That’s your tagline and you trademarked it.

[00:15:18] Like, so how did that come about? Because, um, you had some vision, like, I mean, I think you did this like, like before you even had a business, you trademarked this. So talk about how you came up with this and then like, you know, how it kind of drove your whole company.

[00:15:32] Brooke Sellas: Yeah, so funnily enough, before I started B Squared Media, I was working for a, a sales and training company in Texas and I had, um, been tasked with building.

[00:15:43] you know, social media services. Mm-hmm. for this company, done for you, social media services. So it was almost like I kind of got to test my business right, right. First, which was great. And I was giving a speech at the National Bowling Association, , um, and in my speech I was saying like, Hey, here’s the mindset that you need to have when it comes to social media.

[00:16:03] Think conversation, not campaign, and. Wow. I was really feeling myself, I was drinking my own Kool-Aid. I was like, that is such a powerful statement. And I did. I went out and trademarked it before I even had a business, and then when I got the, you know, started the business, that became our tagline.

[00:16:18] Jeff Sieh: Okay.

[00:16:18] That’s funny. I mean that, I mean, so that, that’s, I tell you, she’s smart folks. She, before she even started, she trademark things. So I think that’s just, I deprived myself. That’s right. . That’s so funny. Um, so, and kind of back to kind of your history a little bit. You know, you tackle a big study in your book, uh, I think you started it as your college thesis.

[00:16:37] But before we dive into that, and I think this is the same company you just mentioned, but can you tell, share your story a little bit about the. Pub crawl cuz I thought that was really, really cool. Um, how, you know, that kind of spurred some ideas on okay, this can apply to other places.

[00:16:54] Brooke Sellas: Yeah. So that was at even before the sales and trading company, I was in nonprofit.

[00:16:59] Mm-hmm. in, in Dallas, Texas. I was the director of special events, uh, for the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. And I had, you know, like, I think 12 events and had to raise close to about a million dollars a year through those events. , they came to me and said, you know, one of the things we’re gonna task you with is starting a young professional’s leadership committee.

[00:17:20] And, um, you have to figure out how to get young people involved because typically donors for CF are, you know, much older and we need to start getting younger people involved, et cetera, et cetera. So I, um, I found some other like-minded young people I was. Ger at the time. And, um, we all had a connection to cystic fibrosis.

[00:17:38] My sister has cf, you know, maybe it was someone’s cousin or best friend or whatever it was. And we decided that to get people’s attention, cystic fibrosis just wasn’t going to do it. Right. It’s a, it’s not a well known disease, it only affects like 33,000 Americans. So we decided beer right, was the best way to get young people’s attention.

[00:17:58] So we. Facebook, which back then, this was like 2007, so there weren’t Facebook pages. Mm-hmm. , Facebook advertising wasn’t out yet. They were just, you know, the Facebook profile. So we used a profile like you would use a page today, and we ended up in six, in a six month period recruiting 7,500 people to attend the pub crawl and raised about $60,000, which most first year events only raised about $5,000.

[00:18:25] So I think we like 12. The event or something. And then what ended up happening was we did such a great job that they ended up, um, implementing the Y P C or the Young Professionals Leadership Committee throughout all of the chapters in the us. So we were like the, the Guinea pig. And I would say we did a pretty good job.

[00:18:41] Oh

[00:18:41] Jeff Sieh: yeah. That’s, that’s really cool. And then the, the funny thing is she starts the book with, Kind of that story. And then beer subtly weaves its way throughout the, uh, entire, maybe that’s why I like the book so much, but,

[00:18:52] Brooke Sellas: uh, yes, I like beer. Yes, I like beer. What can I say? I mean, you know, it’s like be again, being your true, authentic self.

[00:18:58] That’s right. I’m a, a lady who loves beer and I, I don’t feel like, you know, being ashamed of that. That’s

[00:19:03] Jeff Sieh: right. So you and my wife would get along very, very well. Um, and, and you love horses and so we used to have horses too. So there’s two connections right there. Um, Let’s talk this, and it sounds, you know, like we have to slap a, you know, M 14 rating on it.

[00:19:19] But let’s talk about the social penetration theory, what that is, how you came up. I mean, I don’t think you came up with it, but you expanded on that. So just kinda give the brief overview about that and then I have some questions about that, uh, as follow up.

[00:19:30] Yeah.

[00:19:31] Brooke Sellas: We can call it the Onion Theory if you want to.

[00:19:33] Okay, there we go. people are a little more comfortable with that. So essentially the Onion Theory was formulated back by two social psychologists in the seventies, and they said that the way we form relationships is as humans is through self-disclosure. So Jeff and I are chatting at a party and we start talking, and as we build a relationship with one another, we disclose information to decide if we wanna move the relationship to a deeper.

[00:20:00] Place where trust and loyalty exist. So really quickly, the four disclosures are cliches, right? Regular, everyday water talk. It doesn’t do anything to remove the relationship forward, right? Like if I’m getting in an elevator and I’m having the worst day of my life, and Jeff’s in there and he is like, Hey, how are you doing today?

[00:20:17] And I say, fine. That’s cliche, right? Like, I’m not even telling the truth. There’s nothing authentic. , we kind of touched on facts a little bit. Mm-hmm. , right? Factual information’s good, but it doesn’t really move the relationship forward. The third and fourth levels are where that starts to happen, which are opinions and feelings.

[00:20:35] And once we start to share opinions and feelings, that’s when we really start to align our, you know, moral core values. With another person’s values or the values of a brand. And that’s where a relationship is formed, where trust is formed. That’s how loyalty comes about. So that’s, uh, kind of what I used to look at social media and see, can we build relationships the same way if it’s not in real life and it’s happening on Facebook.

[00:21:02] And what I found was yes, because we’re still human .

[00:21:05] Jeff Sieh: Right, right, right. So, in, in the, the social penetration theory or the onion theory. You know, you mentioned a lot about, and you kind of weaved this another way, not as much as beer, but it talked about opinions and feelings is what connects people, so, mm-hmm.

[00:21:19] Um, the question I had, and I mean, I’m kind of just throwing this out there because I, I know what you’re gonna say, but I won’t revealing my opinions, alienate my followers like it seems to me, and we’re gonna get into trolls later, but everybody wants to argue online. You know, I know people think about like, okay, if I start putting my opinions out there or talking about what I feel about something, they’re gonna be this, you know, dumpster fire, and I, and as if a business looks at that, like I don’t have time to deal with that.

[00:21:48] I’m just gonna throw out toast because I have a lady who told me like, I am toast on the internet. She’s got a big business. She goes, all I do, it’s just toast. I, I’m as exciting as toast. But that you’re saying we can’t do that anymore. We need to share those things that start conversations. So talk about that a little bit cuz I know a lot of people are scared about sharing their opinions and feelings.

[00:22:08] Brooke Sellas: I totally get that. It is scary because what I’m basically telling you to do, which is what we have to do in real life, right? Mm-hmm. is be vulnerable and. Never fun, right? That’s that’s scary. But if you think of every delicious, wonderful, amazing relationship that you have, you had to probably get vulnerable.

[00:22:25] You had to share opinions and feelings to get there. And this is what brands are looking for constantly. I mean, how often do we hear about relationship and community and authenticity and all these buzz. But then you go look at their content and it’s toast, you know? So the actions aren’t following the goals.

[00:22:44] And I think, you know, the other thing that we need to understand as marketers is that dissolution is a good thing. If, if, if you find Jeff, that you don’t align with me and you wanna move away from me because our opinions and our feelings don’t match as a brand, I’m okay with that because I don. Spend my time, energy, and money, which we spend a lot of money as brands on our audiences and community.

[00:23:05] Talking to someone who’s never going to buy from me. I would rather have 100 really loyal, really rabid fans than 10,000 who never engage in conversation with me. .

[00:23:18] Jeff Sieh: Hmm. Okay. Let’s take this, this idea of like, we meet at the party for the first time, you know, and, um, my, my thing is like, how, how the velocity of the opinions and feelings, because if I meet you for the first time in the party and I start talking to you about my colonoscopy that I just had, that’s a, you know, that’s the step in that relationship.

[00:23:36] You know, mine feel that, you know, a lot of people we’re not ready for yet, so, When, when should bra, do brands just come outta the gate going, sharing their opinions and feelings? Or is there a, when you start with a client, is there a gradual ramp up to this? Or how does this work? Because if a brand has been toast for five years and then they hire B squared and all of a sudden they’re talking about, you know, their feelings and opinions, is it that a little shocker to the system?

[00:24:00] I mean, how do you deal

[00:24:01] Brooke Sellas: with. A hundred percent. And by the way, I had my first colonoscopy last week, so I would align with you there. I’d be like, I Tell me more. I turned 50 and it’s

[00:24:10] Jeff Sieh: the same thing. I was like, well, if I could get that drug to sleep, I’d get it every day. But go ahead.

[00:24:13] Brooke Sellas: Oh, apparently I was awake the whole time, but we’ll have to save that conversation.

[00:24:16] Okay. Later. Right. Um, so in the book, I actually have an illustration of the Onion theory and it, and it, it’s a little onion, and, and that’s exactly how I want you to think about this, right? There’s the. Of the onion, right. Going around and around and around. And if you are familiar with onions, which I’m sure most of you are, to peel those layers back and get to the core of the onion, that’s depth.

[00:24:38] Right? Right. So brands always need to be focusing on both breadth and depth, those superficial conversations, which is where most of the brand content lives right now. Right. Breath, but also depth. If you’re a brand new brand, let’s say for some reason you’ve never been on Facebook before, you’re just joining Facebook, you’re gonna be doing a lot of circling the onion.

[00:24:57] You’re gonna be doing a lot of, uh, breath. Mm-hmm. . But if you’ve been on Facebook for a long time and you’re trying now to kind of incorporate some of these strategies that I’m talking about, you would, oh, not only focus on breath because hopefully you’re continuing to grow your audience. Those new people need that kind of superficial getting to know you phase, but you also have to think about.

[00:25:18] and going into some of those opinion and feeling type conversations because people who’ve been with you for a long time will expect that, will appreciate that, will want that. If you’ve already started conversing with them, they’ll wanna continue to converse with you. So it’s a fine mix of breadth.

[00:25:33] Mm-hmm. and depth, if that

[00:25:34] Jeff Sieh: makes sense. Yeah. And you gave some great examples in, um, your book. different kind of the mixture. And you even actually broke it down later. I think it was in the, some of the later chapters, like this is kind of the, the formula of different types of posts that I would do kind of a thing.

[00:25:48] Mm-hmm. . So I thought that was really helpful. And that’s all in the books too. So, um, one of the things when I was reading about the, the social penetration theory and you and the Onion Theory, um, and what got me thinking it’s like, is. Is there gonna be a place for direct marketing anymore, or does this theory kinda make it irrelevant and changed into something else?

[00:26:08] Because are, are we, are we really getting mail and making a decision anymore? Like the direct marketing stuff? I just don’t know. I mean, maybe the older demographic is, but. . And you mentioned before when you were writing your book, you had somebody come in and tell you like, okay, you can’t say that. Or the, and I even say things like dial tone and my kids look at me like, I don’t know what a dial tone is.

[00:26:28] You know, like, I’m, like I said, I’m just on dial tone right now. And they’re like, what? I don’t know. What are you talking about to add what? Yeah, what’s dial tone? So, I mean, some of this stuff just gonna go away, like direct mail or direct um, marketing. I mean, what are your thoughts? I

[00:26:41] Brooke Sellas: think this is part of why marketing is so scary or hard right now, or we’re seeing a lot of people say like, I’ve spent, you know, a million dollars on content this year, and I have nothing to show for it because that whole broadcast, direct mail, I mean, it just doesn’t work on these younger generations.

[00:26:58] And if you look at the buying power of, say, millennials and Gen Z, who’s the, you know, coming up behind them pretty quickly here, it’s massive. It’s massive. So I think. , even if you are scared, I would test kind of these theories because what we’ve seen over and over again is that the younger generations are looking for this type of relationship with brands.

[00:27:22] They’re looking for brands who take a stand. They’re looking for brand conversation. Twitter just put out a report, um, I think it’s called, oh gosh, what’s it called? Let’s, I’ll, I’ll, I’ll remind you and you can put it in the show notes, but essentially they, they surveyed a bunch of people, younger people, and 79% of them said that they expect brand conversation to happen with brands and that it’s part of how they make their purchasing decisions.

[00:27:50] So we already know that people are going online to research before they make that. That decision, right? But as part of that consideration set, they’re looking at the conversations they’re having with brands online to help make that purchase. So if you’re not engaging in these conversations, or at least in customer care through social media, you are going to get left behind as.

[00:28:11] especially as these younger groups come into more buying power.

[00:28:14] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I totally agree. And I, we’ve already seen that happen. Um, I do wanna take just real quick to go over to Amazon Live. And by the way, if you’re not, if you’re watching it somewhere else, this is the one time I’m telling you, come over to Amazon live, Jeff comes to my storefront because you can buy Brooks book and there’s some questions about your book.

[00:28:30] Uh, and Gary, ask a question. Gary Stockton, thank you for jumping over there. Um, and we’ll get to your first question about what, uh, to what corporate accounts who don’t allocate staff to for social media. We’ll talk about that a little bit later. But one of the questions he does ask about your book is there, is there gonna be an audible version of the book?

[00:28:47] Brooke Sellas: So you’re like the fifth person that’s asked me that, Gary. So I’m feeling like I probably need to tackle that next. Um, granted it’s only five people, but I mean, look, this is, this is what I’m saying about marketing, right? Right. We have all of these different avenues that are available to us now as consumers, because Gary is asking this as a consumer, and we have to meet our customers where they are.

[00:29:12] So if I’m hearing now five times that people want an audible version of the book, to me, you know, it’s kind of pointing in the direction of I need to spend the time and money on creating an audible bus. Right.

[00:29:23] Jeff Sieh: Which would be great. I mean, cuz you know, it’s almost like a podcast. The audio stuff is growing and it’s just another version of people wanna consume your content.

[00:29:29] So I would listen to it be my voice

[00:29:32] Brooke Sellas: on the, I hate my voice know this. Will you be,

[00:29:34] Jeff Sieh: I sound like Kermit the Frog. You’d be like, it’s, you know, it would be, you could find a way better than me. But, um, one of the, the, one of the things we, you know, you mentioned that brands need to communicate on their platform, their audience is on.

[00:29:46] You talk about that quite a bit in the book. Um, and you mentioned this at the beginning, but aren’t, don’t you think people are migrating to the platform where people think they’re going to be hurt? So, for example, um, and this is from your Twitter feed, and I, you know, we’ve been following each other on Twitter for a while, but.

[00:30:02] A couple months ago, you were stuck in a Houston airport without air conditioning and, and like people were passing out, it was like four or five hours. And Brooke doesn’t usually complain on social media, and I knew that when she did this was a big deal. But it was bad. Yeah, it was really bad. And so, and Brooke doesn’t usually do that on social, and I’m like, okay, they need to take notice.

[00:30:23] But here’s the question. Did you go to Twitter because you knew they were monitoring. More than they would be on like their helpline, I think it was American Airlines or whatever. Mm-hmm. , you know. Um, and because you knew that you weren’t gonna go on a phone and wait through, you know, their tree of people, they’re gonna send it to you.

[00:30:40] So don’t you think people know that now? I mean, especially the younger generation, they know where they’re gonna be heard at first. And that’s a platform they’re going, even if they’re not on Twitter a lot, they know if they go tweet a complaint, that’s where it’s gonna happen. That’s where they’re gonna.

[00:30:53] Brooke Sellas: Yeah, I mean the consumer expectation is, social media is real time. It does live 24 7. You know, whether brands wanna get behind that or not. That’s the consumer perception. Mm-hmm. . So I would try to get behind it. A and B. Yeah, I mean, I, I really try not to do that because I work in this world and I know how awful it is, but it was bad.

[00:31:12] But the situation was so bad that I had to, you know, we had to go back to the gate cuz there was a, a, a baby had a medical issue from the heat. So, I mean, , it was enough for me to go ahead and, and use that platform to get some attention. Well,

[00:31:26] Jeff Sieh: did they f, did they actually follow up to that tweet? Did they ever respond, or is this one of

[00:31:30] Brooke Sellas: those examples?

[00:31:30] They never responded to the tweet, but as we used, you know, email and, and all of that to resolve the situation. Um, We brought that to their attention and I think, you know, we were able to, to get them to give us more of a discount than they were trying, they were trying to say that like the food vouchers and the hotel vouchers they gave us were enough.

[00:31:49] And I was like, do you want me to go back to Twitter ?

[00:31:52] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. You don’t wanna get, you don’t wanna get Brooke, Brad. Uh, but I mean, and so, but it can go both ways. So, . Um, this is an example I’ve used before is one time, and you know, waffle Houses are big here in East Texas. Yeah. And I had this, I took a picture of this beautiful sunset and I thought it was funny and I took it and it was, it was like sitting behind a waffle house and I made some tweet about it, but Waffle House, the company followed up and said, Hey, can we use this?

[00:32:15] Is it okay? Can I use this for user generated content? And like they generated content. Yeah. And so I’m like, and I always remember that and I think mm-hmm. that and it would happen quick and, you know, it was, I think it was on Instagram or something. That they didn’t get back to you on that says something about their customer service, you know?

[00:32:32] But then Waffle House gets back to me about a sunset. I mean, so, you know, we, we talk about social listening and we’ve had you on the show talking about this a a lot, but the importance of doing that, I mean, can you, don’t you think it’s becoming more and more, I mean, even in, you know, six months since you’ve been on here, important to listen on social.

[00:32:52] Brooke Sellas: Oh my gosh. It’s, it’s mind boggling to me that more brands don’t use social listening, because everything that we’ve been talking about, as wonderful as it is, even if you have the most amazing social ed customer care team in place, that’s still reactive, right? Mm-hmm. , we’re, we’re waiting for people to come to us, to DMAs, to tag us, to hashtag us, whatever it may be.

[00:33:11] It’s very reactive, right? take it to the place where we’re really doing innovative marketing strategies. We have to use social listening because that’s where we become proactive, right? That’s where, you know, American Airlines can go in and put in certain keyword listeners about that, that event, and they could have seen it bubbling up cuz I wasn’t the only person complaining.

[00:33:33] That’s right. And maybe done something about it or had us back to. Sooner or said, you know, look, people are really angry. They’re putting stuff online, they’re recording things, they’re posting pictures. They’ve got a picture of a baby and an mm-hmm , you know, Mt. Right? Not good, right? Let’s pull these people, you know, off the plane or whatever it may have been.

[00:33:50] But, and it’s not just that, you know, I wanna say one more thing is, you know, a lot of times people will say, we don’t wanna use socialist cause no one’s talking about us. And first of all, you gotta fix that, right? People need to start talking about you. But second of all, how do you know? If they’re talking about you or not, if you’re waiting for them to tag you, you know what?

[00:34:07] If you’re a big branch who’s, who’s product led and you have a hundred different product lines, people are probably talking about your products. But if you’re not using social listening, you won’t get that information into your inbox because you’re not being tagged.

[00:34:19] Jeff Sieh: Right. It’s, it’s almost the same thing.

[00:34:22] So I did a lot of Pinterest consulting back in the day, and one of the things is people like, ah, my, it won’t matter. My company’s on Pinterest, because it just, and we’d set them up on Pinterest and we, you know, you, you attach their website or whatever, and then all of a sudden they find out that all these people are pinning their articles with their images and they’re pinning the wrong images a lot of times, but they’re trying to save their stuff.

[00:34:40] And I’m like, if you don’t know, you have to listen before you know if they’re listening or not. So thanks, you know, you know. ,

[00:34:47] Brooke Sellas: it’s like real life also in that regard. Yeah, you kind of have to listen before you speak. You know, listening is the key to, you know, all these different things. So, you know, and again, even if people aren’t talking about your brand again, fix it.

[00:34:59] They’re still talking about your competitors. They’re talking about, you know, industry topics. So while you’re working on getting more people talking about your brand, go listen to your competitors. Go see the negative conversation surrounding your competitors. Couldn’t you use that information to create a campaign that was.

[00:35:18] Set up for tactical differentiation, right. From your top competitor to sh you know, grab more, share a voice for, for your brand. Absolutely. So I mean, there’s 1,000,001 things you could do with social listening. So you know, the excuse that nobody’s talking about, our brand A is a pretty lousy excuse and B, it doesn’t work.

[00:35:34] It just

[00:35:34] Jeff Sieh: doesn’t work. Right. Yeah. So, so we talked about the American Airlines and the Waffle House thing. , uh, and those are different places where people can enter on this customer journey. And one of the things, a quote from your book is, these days the customer journey is non-linear. So you won’t always know which point will turn out to be most critical.

[00:35:52] Mm-hmm. , somebody could be wanting to fly and they go and see this debacle that’s happening in American and go, Nope, not for me. You know, and I’m not gonna be flying. And so the other thing you said in the book that was really, really good, and I love the. The word picture you used, you said, as we go through each stage, we wanna be on the lookout for any potholes on that journey.

[00:36:12] We’re not looking for best in class luxury level experiences on this journey. We’re just looking for an absence of bumps. Mm-hmm. . And you mentioned that smoothing the potholes is and is one of the ways, you know, you compare, you can your customer journey with some of these general standards that people have.

[00:36:27] So like for loading times, let’s say, you know, mobile loading times on your. The question I had when I, when I saw that in the book is, where do you go to find the stats to find out if you’re doing a good job or not? Because a lot of the stuff, if you search for like loading times or like email open rates, they’re like from five years ago and that’s all changed and like, we don’t know, like TikTok, what is, what’s a good, you know, return on investment in TikTok, what’s, you know, some of that stuff that’s so new.

[00:36:55] How do you find when you’re trying to smooth these potholes. What to compare to to see if you’re doing well or not. Does that make.

[00:37:03] Brooke Sellas: Yeah, we, we use social listening. Um, so, you know, as we’re looking at our themes in social listening, and so just for a quick, basic idea of what social listening is, it’s, it’s like keyword listening, right?

[00:37:16] It’s like using keywords that are brand related, competitor related, product related stakeholder industry. Any and all, and then you use, uh, bullying type searches, like if this, then that or, but, and or right. To kind of really hone in on specific keywords that you’re trying to decipher. As those conversations are being read by essentially AI in real time, the AI tags those conversations with sentiment, so positive, neutral, or negative.

[00:37:44] Right. And the AI’s not always right, but out of the box you’re getting. Kind of feeling of how your product, let’s just say product is doing through social listening. So it’s gonna see all of the people who are talking about this particular product. Let’s just say that. Let’s say the keyboard we’re using is best all in one printer, right?

[00:38:04] We’re using that in relation to the brand term, right? That’s reactive all of the conversations that are happening, and if we see that majority of them are. and we’re seeing that it has to do, once we dig into those conversations, which you can do with social listening tools, we’re seeing, it all has to do with like the print ink quality, right?

[00:38:21] The black ink runs out after 10 times of printing. Right? How can we take that back in house and fix that pothole, right? Because people aren’t going to continue to buy our best all in one printer if we can’t get ink that doesn’t last for longer than 10 prints. Mm-hmm. . So it’s a lot of times what we’re doing, you know, Customer care clients is going back internally and talking to product teams, changing product packaging, figuring out, you know, why the ink cartridge isn’t working the way it is.

[00:38:52] It might be a manufacturing issue, but it’s literally. I mean, at the end of the day, we could respond to the customer with a great response and quell their worries all we want, but we’re still spending time and money and energy every single time we have to talk to the client who has a print issue. So why not take this back to the higher ups and try to fix that pothole so that that path to purchase is smoother, easier, and cheaper to get.

[00:39:20] Jeff Sieh: Mm, that’s a great point. Um, and she, and she goes into this a lot of times in her book. And by the way, don’t forget to go get her there. You can go to our Amazon storefront. I, she, she’s highlighted, she should be highlighted the entire time of the show, folks. So make sure you get that book.

[00:39:34] Get the Kindle edition, the audible book is coming soon cuz Gary says, uh, Brooke, you need to get on that. So, uh, okay

[00:39:41] Brooke Sellas: Gary, consider

[00:39:42] Jeff Sieh: it done . So I wanna get to some of, uh, Gary’s questions cuz he’s got some good ones and I, I wanna make sure we have. to do this because I wanna do a good job of social listening.

[00:39:51] Um, he goes, I wish I could do social listening better. We got a lot of junk in our gora pulse. Um, but we haven’t been able ever to, um, tame it. And this goes to his other question too, is like, um, what do you do with your corporate accounts? Cuz see, I know he works for a big company who don’t allocate staff to do social media well, so I think there’s two parts to that questions is, you know, like we get a lot of junk and we’re short-staffed.

[00:40:16] How do we do. . Well, when, you know, we we’re a big company, we got all this stuff coming in.

[00:40:23] Brooke Sellas: Yeah. I mean, my first thought, and again, I’m, I’m only saying this off of very limited knowledge, right? Right. That may not be the correct answer, but I would take probably if you’re a giant company, you probably have a massive content marketing budget.

[00:40:34] Most companies do year after year, report after report. We see that the content marketing budgets are going. , and I’m sitting here telling you it’s not about the content, right? It’s about the conversation, the community. So if you could take some budget from content and put it into social, I’d start there.

[00:40:53] You could outsource to a company like mine or someone else, only because you know, right. We ha you typically have a team of like five people for the cost of what it would be to hire one really skilled employee in house. Plus we work 365 days a year. Employees typically only work Monday through Friday, nine to five.

[00:41:11] Right? There’s kind of an inherent mismatch between social ed, customer care, and how traditional companies operate. And then as far as listening goes, you know, my big thing is I try to be tool agnostic. . We obviously love the tool that we use, which is Sprout Social, but no tool is perfect and everybody has a different set of goals.

[00:41:32] So Gary, what I would do is understand what your goals are. First. I’ve got a free listening workbook that I did with Sprout Social. I can, I can get the link to Jeff and to you Gary. Um, go fill that out because essentially it’s all about figuring out what your goals are. For social listening. And then once you know that, I want you to go demo some tools who provide social listening.

[00:41:53] And what I always tell people is tell them what your goals are, tell them what you’re trying to achieve. And as you do the demo with that company, make them show you, I want you to show me I’m trying to achieve X. Show me how your tool would help us achieve X. And if they can’t show you, move on to the next demo.

[00:42:11] Because not every tool is suited for every company’s goals or

[00:42:15] Jeff Sieh: needs. . That’s good. And Gary says that he does go into, you know, he says it’s, it’s good for consumer brands like printers, but not for enterprise. Uh, visit to business niches. He goes, he likes to go into YouTube comments occasionally and bust credit myths cuz he deals as, as a credit agency.

[00:42:31] So I think that’s good to beat your brand out there and, and do that shows that you’re listening, Gary. Um, yeah, one of the things you talk about a lot in the book about negative Nancy’s, and I think I love it because like you and Jay. , I kind of, you know, embrace, you know, that kind, hug your haters, that kind of stuff.

[00:42:47] Uh, and you talk about the negative Nancys, and you talk a little bit about dealing with trolls and why we shouldn’t fear them, but have a, a policy. But the question I wanted to point out and ask you and share with our, our viewers and listeners, what’s the difference between sympathy and empathy?

[00:43:03] Brooke Sellas: Hmm.

[00:43:04] That’s such a great question. Sympathy is hearing something negative from someone, right? And saying like, oh, I feel bad for. Right? Mm-hmm. , like you’re, you’re saying like, oh, I, I, I feel bad for you. I have no feeling about it. Empathy is taking responsibility for how someone else is feeling and putting yourself in them shoes and saying, how can I help you feel better?

[00:43:27] Or How can I help, help fix this problem or pain point? So the big, there’s a big difference between sympathy and empathy and obviously what we’re looking for in really good community managers. are people who can really get in touch with their empathetic side, which not everybody can do, and I don’t think that’s a bad thing, but I’m just saying you really have to take responsibility as a good social media community manager today to solve those customer pain points.

[00:43:55] And if you can’t take responsibility, if you can’t say, let me figure out how to fix this for you and really mean it, you’re, you’re probably going to either not do very well or just get burnout really quickly. .

[00:44:08] Jeff Sieh: So, Gary, over on, uh, Amazon says, um, that would be awesome sauce about the workbook. That’s right.

[00:44:13] There’s a workbook that goes along with this, that it’s in the back of the book. It has the, the link in there. If you get the digital version, it has the link. You can just click on it, but it’s also listed, uh, on there. Um, so if you guys don’t ha you have access to that, just send me a direct message or Brooke, a direct message and she’d be more than happy to get that to you.

[00:44:30] Um, we talked about sympathy and empathy. We’re kind of into, you know, dealing. The negative Nancys and the trolls out there and dealing with kind of the customer service online. But can you also, this is another term I thought was great. Can you explain what a situational sorry is? Ah,

[00:44:45] Brooke Sellas: yes. This is a shout out to Carrie.

[00:44:47] Um, this is a difficult one, right? Because obviously we serve our clients and. sometimes our clients really don’t wanna say sorry, which I, which I understand, right? As a human being, I can understand not wanting to say sorry, , you know? Right. We always hear the clients always, right? Mm-hmm. are the customers always right.

[00:45:07] Um, but even so, they’re, they’re not always right. And so a situational, sorry, is kind of an, if this then that conversational workflow that we’ve, like an exercise that we do with some of our clients who necessarily. Don’t wanna apologize when something goes wrong and so, kind of convince them that in certain situations if this happens, then that happens, that we should apologize.

[00:45:35] And it’s just our way of helping, um, you know, bigger brands kind of embrace that empathy side of what we were just talking about. Like sympathy’s great. Empathy’s really what’s needed. .

[00:45:45] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And, and Brooke does break this all, all down and like shows how to tag different things in her book, like, like the red, the green, yellow, and red light, which is a great way to, to kind of categorize stuff and when to elevate it or take it to some other, other branch in your company, or if you’re a small company, you know, you need to deal with this now kind of a thing.

[00:46:04] So it’s really great when she breaks us down in the book also. So, um, one of the things I thought one of the best takeaways for me is the A three formula. So can you talk about that really quick and just really briefly, those three things that make up the A three formula? Because I, if somebody, I think one of the biggest takeaways when it comes to customer service is this formula.

[00:46:24] I think it’s really, really good. .

[00:46:27] Brooke Sellas: Yeah, so essentially the A three formula is just about there. There’s actually a blog post on our blog that goes through and gives a little bit more than what’s in the book, you know? Mm-hmm. , unfortunately, Tanya, my content editor, who I talked about earlier, like we had to cut some things so it wasn’t quite as long, but essentially it’s all about.

[00:46:46] Figuring out how you can respond with empathy, right? So you have to acknowledge, you have to align, and then you take accountability, right? Empathy means taking accountability for, for fixing something. So I give that formula in the book, and I think I give like 10 scripts for empathy. Mm-hmm. that we actually use.

[00:47:04] But on our blog, I wanna say there’s like 25 scripts for empathy that, that we use. So buy the book, but you could also go to the blog if you’re not gonna buy the book. Get the book, folks.

[00:47:13] Jeff Sieh: Get the book. It’s really good. So the other thing is, is you talked a lot of it. , uh, you know, I think a lot of times we get into this and we, especially if you’re starting out solo and then you maybe grow a team or whatever is you just kind of done.

[00:47:28] Yeah, yeah. You’ve just kind of done stuff like, you just, like, you just go and you try to do business and make business and sometimes the planning or the documentation kind of falls by the wayside. I know that’s true for me. Uh, but you mentioned having a living, breathing document is what you called about, uh, for the rules engagement for customer service and the thing you.

[00:47:47] Two in there, which was really interesting to me was that the tone of voice should be included here too. Um, and this is where you decide to use like emojis or gifs, um, and decide this tone of voice. So when I saw that, and I’ve always like, I’ve really struggled this cuz I’m like old, but couldn’t you be using in any emoji or gif come across as not like taking the complaint seriously?

[00:48:09] You know, I mean I guess it depends one on the platform you’re on, uh, and also your audience. But when I see. If I tweeted a complaint and somebody responded with an emoji, I would just, that would just elevate it, you know? So, yeah. Uh, talk a little bit about that.

[00:48:25] Brooke Sellas: Yeah. You know, it’s funny, this is where social listening comes into play yet again, we can see through the conversations that we’re having in social listening, you know, what emojis and, and gifts our audience uses when they’re conversing with us, so we can.

[00:48:39] I talk about this in the book too. We can mirror that with them. Mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So if we see a lot of our, um, I mean, I’ll just make something up. A lot of our community members use like the Purple Heart. when they appreciate something. If we are in that, you know, pain point situation when we’re trying to solve something for someone, I wouldn’t necessarily use the Purple Heart like, I’m so sorry Purple Heart.

[00:48:59] But if we’re able to solve that pain point for them, maybe we can say like, appreciate you working with us Purple Heart, because we’re mirroring what we see the audience use. I mean, it’s just another way we use social listening.

[00:49:13] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point. I just, I, I just get nervous cuz I’m old school, you know, like what if and, and plus I’m like, I need a dictionary to tell me all the, I know the smiley face emoji.

[00:49:21] That’s about it. Um, .

[00:49:23] Brooke Sellas: It’s so true though. But you know, think about, like, think about some of these larger brands who hive have high volume. Yeah. They oftentimes have, you know, 4, 5, 10 people on their team, right? Those are all people with their own personal preferences on emojis and, and gifts and memes and all that stuff.

[00:49:40] So, you know, having it spelled out with what’s appropriate and when it’s appropriate, I think is really important.

[00:49:46] Jeff Sieh: It’s really bad when my mom figured out emojis. I’m like, mom, you should not, don’t use that one. Don’t use the eggplant. Yeah, just don’t, mom. I know what you mean, but that’s not what it means.

[00:49:56] Um, so one of the things, and I think maybe the overarching. Thing of the, the section of the book you talked about there’s this untapped potential of good customer service. I thought this was so good because we’re always looking for how we can, you know, do better, get more business. And you’re saying this untapped potential of good customer service is something that really can make a difference, not just for, you know, good feelings towards your company, but actual monetary.

[00:50:26] You know, this can boost your bottom line. And one of the best stories I think you used in this book, and maybe you can tell a little bit about it here, was how Bloom bottle turned this negative to a positive and then they used it on social media. So talk about that a little bit, cuz I, that was a great example and you have that post in the book, uh, of how they did that.

[00:50:45] But just tell that story a little.

[00:50:47] Brooke Sellas: Yeah, so Bloom is a makeup brand and you know, some of us hem are worried about aging , so they have this amazing, you know, anti-aging serum. And it originally came in the form of a, a little bottle with a dropper. They changed the dropper to a pump. I don’t know why.

[00:51:05] Probably manufacturing or, you know, someone in product or packaging design decided it would be better. But, but the customer had a fit. Mm-hmm. online, right? There was a lot of negative conversations happening about why on earth would you change from a dropper to a pump for a serum? You know, serum should be delivered with a dropper.

[00:51:26] and they were obviously listening and they, they showed that they were listening. Um, they, you could see throughout the, the lifetime of this conversation happening. They were engaging in these negative conversations and, and really you could tell, like trying to find out more, like, well, tell us why it should be delivered with a, a drop or not a puff.

[00:51:44] Anyways, end of the day what happened was they listened to their customer and they changed the packaging back to a dropper for the serum from a. And they got a ton of user-generated content. Their customers sharing how excited they were about this dropper coming back, and they used all of that user-generated content in a post to announce.

[00:52:10] that the dropper was coming back. So the, the picture in the book is, you know, it’s, it’s a, the product itself. And then they’ve taken all of these little pieces of generated content, put it on the photo and said like, a little birdie told us y’all were upset that we changed the product. We’re so sorry. We listened.

[00:52:28] And not only did we listen, we did something about it. We’re happy to announce it’s coming back with the, with the dropper. Mm-hmm. and people went. But ultimately that’s what comes out of these conversations. When you’re thinking conversation, not campaign, you can fix the potholes. You can, you know, find out what the potholes are in the first place or why they exist.

[00:52:47] You can change your product packaging. You can gather all kinds of user generated content, and then use that to differentiate eight yourself from other brands. Because I can tell you right now, other makeup brands aren’t listening and certainly aren’t changing the packaging based on what their, their customers are telling.

[00:53:04] Jeff Sieh: Hmm. It’s such a great story. And Brooke, that’s just one of the many, and I have a whole list of stuff we’re getting short on time, but uh, she has so many things that I, like I said, I have all these quotes that I’ve taken on Kendall and highlighted things in the book. And so if you get this book, I know you guys will too.

[00:53:20] Um, but the last thing I wanna talk about because, um, it’s near to my dear to my heart, cuz we have a great one here and in fact, uh, Gary says, uh, he got his copy of your, your work. , um, he put it under his work account. So, but the thing is, I wanna talk a little as we kinda wrap things up about community, and you said in the book, and I quote, but community is what a lot of marketers get wrong.

[00:53:40] They’re using community as a buzzword when they’re really talking about audiences. So what’s the difference between community and audiences? , your

[00:53:50] Brooke Sellas: audiences have like a, a s a a soft relationship with you, right? They’ve signed up for your newsletter, they’ve followed you on Twitter or Facebook. Um, maybe they’ve downloaded, you know, one of your white papers, right?

[00:54:03] Mm-hmm. , that’s your audience. These are the people who you’re talking to. It’s, you know, a large group of people. Hopefully community has a shared mission with your. , right? They are advocates and they have bought into being an advocate for the brand, whether paid or unpaid. I say unpaid because if we start getting into paid, we’re talking about influencers and not advocates.

[00:54:25] Um, same thing with user generated content. By the way, there’s been a lot of mess about paying for U G C. That’s not U G C if you’re paying for it. That’s influencer marketing. Right? Right. Um, community starts to happen. You know, a lot of companies are making the goal of finding and building communities, but community happens in the conversation.

[00:54:44] Mm-hmm. not on the content. You know, if you start to have those conversations and you see constantly that Jeff keeps coming back on our B squared post and keeps engaging in these conversations and giving these wild, amazing, crazy answers, then I wanna talk to, I wanna say, Jeff, we’re building a community and you’ve been such a wonderful thought leader on our, for our brand, on our pages, would you be interested in helping us moderate this community or lead this community?

[00:55:09] Because community led communities , right? You know, so the community members help lead the community with the brand. I think that’s the best way to do it. But community doesn’t happen on your content. It happens in your convers. Oh,

[00:55:24] Jeff Sieh: see, that’s a tweetable right there. That’s not happen on your, it happens on your conversations.

[00:55:28] Um, and one of the things you even said in the book is that, you know, some brands don’t need to have a community, and it seems like there’s this land grab, like everybody has to have a community around their brand. And no, what you just said that it happens around the conversation I think is so true. Um, and I’m going to, this is a plug in it, but it segues perfectly into it, is to our friends at Ecamm.

[00:55:47] At slash Ecamm. It’s who we did the do the show with. They’re also our sponsor, but they have an incredible community. I mean, they’re one of the persons Doc Rock who runs a lot of their stuff. Um, he started as like, just in the, in their community on Facebook and was engaging.

[00:56:04] And now he works for ’em, I mean, yes. Uh, and their community, they have an incredible community where they’re just helping one another and the, and the brand just gets the bonus of that, and they’re so good about. Talking, you know, back and forth to each other. So I love Ecamm, I love their community. If you’re not a part of it, just do a search for them on Facebook.

[00:56:22] But also they have this, um, live selling Leap into live Grace. And I talked to their community about it. We were talking about, um, how we actually get great guests and how we monitor, you know, work them through and our show notes and all that stuff. And you can get the replay to that at merch dot Ecamm dot com.

[00:56:36] Just buy one of, one of their guides. They have a digital one or a physical. And, uh, you can get access to like years of their Leap uh, uh, uh, virtual summit. So go check them out. Ecamm love them to death, but they’re a great example. Uh, it was a nice segue, but they’re also a great example of community done right?

[00:56:51] So, um, Brooke once again. Holy cow. This has flown by. I have so many more questions and things, but folks by her book. Once again, if you’re not, uh, watching, you can still go there later. Go to Jeff, uh, and it’s down there in the con conversation. You watch this replay on Amazon Live again, Jeff

[00:57:10] Um, and get her book folks. Get the digital one. Get the physical one that you can give to a friend. Um, but it’s also maybe coming out in audio, audio, audio version. So, uh, check that out soon. We’ll

[00:57:22] Brooke Sellas: see. Scratch my vocal

[00:57:24] Jeff Sieh: chords. No, you could use the script and you could just have it read it, like with a AI thing, but it probably wouldn’t be as close.

[00:57:29] Oh, that

[00:57:29] Brooke Sellas: would be, see, that wouldn’t be authentic. I know I have to do it myself. I just, I hate my voice. Oh, oh,

[00:57:34] Jeff Sieh: you, you sound great. Brooke, where’s some, where can people find, what are you doing next? Where can people find you and have plenty of time. We, we talked about where the book is and how to get it, but what else do you want people to go, um, uh, talk to, or I guess have conversation with you about?

[00:57:48] Yes,

[00:57:49] Brooke Sellas: I would love to have a conversation with any of y’all about the book or just about any of the concepts that we’re covering. You don’t have to buy the book to have the conversation with me on Twitter. I’m, I’m Brook Sells. You can pretty much Google Brook sells and I think I’m the only Brook sells out there, so I should pop up.

[00:58:05] Our website is, uh, B You can find me there too. But yeah, I’d love to. Talk about what, what’s happening, what you’re seeing, what you’re doing. I’m already working on book number two. Oh wow. So, uh, I’d love to, you know, hear your stories, get more information, and maybe feature you in the second book.

[00:58:23] Jeff Sieh: Oh, that’s awesome. And she is wonderful to follow everywhere. I’ve learned so much from her. I’ve learned so much from you guys. The community. Gary says, A great discussion today, folks. Thank you for responding to his questions. Thank you, Gary, for showing up almost every week. I appreciate you, my friend.

[00:58:36] Thank you for all you guys who are listening on the podcast. And by the way, Brooke’s name is spelled b r o o k e b dot Sellis, S E L L A S. So make sure you follow her if you’re just listening to the audio version of this, because she is worth the follow. Get her book. And with that folks, we’ll see you guys next week.

[00:58:54] Thanks so much for watching. Bye everybody.

[00:58:56] Brooke Sellas: Bye y’all.

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