SHOW TRANSCRIPT

Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Welcome to Social Media News live I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not.

[00:00:05] Grace Duffy: [00:00:05] I’m Grace Duffy. And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media. Today’s show is brought to you by Restream the best way to live stream to YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitch, Amazon life, and 30 plus other online destinations all at once. So you can expand your audience with multi streaming today.

[00:00:26] Learn more about it at socialemedianewslive.com/restream

[00:00:33] Jeff Sieh: [00:00:33] Awesome today, we are going to be joined by Janet Marie, and we’re going to be talking about cutting through the content overwhelm and getting seen online. We’re going to explore how to effectively, efficiently and consistently produce good content that makes it to the right distribution channels for every size of business or a company.

[00:00:53] And we mentioned earlier, Restream is an amazing sponsor, but we’re also sponsored by our friends over on Ecamm. That’s how we do this awesome show. Have this amazing layout. So if you want to find out more about them, make sure you guys go to socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm That’s socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm

[00:01:11] So if you don’t know who Janet Murray is, she is amazing. She is actually a friend of mine, like I mentioned at the beginning of the show, but she’s a content marketer. She’s an expert at that. She’s an author, she’s a podcaster and a keynote speaker who has spoken all over the world about building online audiences.

[00:01:30] She’s helped thousands of coaches, creatives, entrepreneurs learn how to create engaging content so they can build their online audiences and make more sales in their businesses. And she’s also creator of the 20, 21 social media diary and planner. So if you haven’t checked that out, you really need to, because it’s amazing.

[00:01:49] So Janet, welcome to the show today. 

[00:01:52] Janet Murray: [00:01:52] Thank you so much for having me and thank you for that lovely introduction. 

[00:01:56] Jeff Sieh: [00:01:56] Yeah. I’m so excited. It’s been too long since we’ve been able to talk. So I’m so excited. You guys can tune in today. In fact, our friend Ian Anderson, Greg goes it’s Janet. So he’s excited as well.

[00:02:07] He was with me at that conference and our friend Sabrina is also here. She is there. Hello, it’s me Sabrina. Hello Sabrina. It’s Jeff. I’m so glad to see you, so let’s get started. Great. So I know you had some questions to kick this off.

Today’s Content Marketing Landscape

[00:02:20] Grace Duffy: [00:02:20] Well, yeah, let’s kick off this show by talking about the content marketing landscape in general.

[00:02:27] So more than ever before, we are completely inundated with a flood of content online, everywhere else. You know, we saw this spike in 2020 as people flocked online for everything from happy hours to classes, performances, and even even church. Yeah, church meeting you know, meeting up for church and then like fitness, everything.

[00:02:48] So now we’re at this point where we are both challenged by ensuring that we are creating good content. And as you said at the top of the show, Jeff, that it is effectively and efficiently and consistently being created. And isn’t that just the challenge. And then on top of that, you have to make sure that it is going to the right places, getting to the right places.

[00:03:09] You know, there’s so many places you can go to like apps, web television, live streaming, video, print, mobile, you know, our show right now we’re distributed as a podcast afterwards. So Janet, can you tell us. How your business, since you are a content marketing expert, this is your space. How has it adapted over the past year?

[00:03:28]And how do you see it evolving throughout this coming year? Uh, You know, throughout the rest of this year 2020 and going into 20, I’m sorry, 2021 going into 2022. 

[00:03:36]Janet Murray: [00:03:36] For me personally, this is the year of the short form video. So it’s about reels. It’s about tic talks and it’s about being able to share your message in these really short snappy videos.

[00:03:52] So, I’ve got really into Instagram reels this year, particularly, tick-tock as well. And I’m really excited about that type of content. And the challenge is for us as content creators to, to be able to create really engaging content. Short form video, like really short. I think that’s where it’s at and I’m really excited to see where that goes over the next year or so.

[00:04:19] And it’s a lot of fun. It’s very challenging. So for me, yeah, short form video is where it’s at. 

[00:04:24] Jeff Sieh: [00:04:24] But, okay, sorry. So there are folks who create a fire hose of content and, you know, have like this team, like supporting them, doing it. So like, like Gary V Buzzfeed and all those people. So how can like the little brands like me or solar entrepreneurs in the same space compete with that? How can we enter the ring and like get seen above all this noise?

[00:04:48] Janet Murray: [00:04:48] Or it’s always come down to niching and niching, as you might say, depending on where you are in the world and stand and being, not being vanilla, basically. And looking at how you can. You can stand out, which just sounds so obvious, doesn’t it? But you know, like, just like with you, Jeff, like we’ve got people who specialize in Pinterest and then we’ve got the manly Pinterest podcast and that, that brand.

[00:05:16] And I think that, I mean, it’s been an ongoing problem for content creators is this, that a lot of people are too scared to be different. And they’re too scared to have a different opinion. They’re too scared to show up in a different way. And I think as ever, it’s always been about showing up in that really kind of authentic way for you.

[00:05:35] And that probably sounds a bit naff, doesn’t it authentic, but you know what I mean? But kind of being here and I think the rise of, again, coming back to short term short form video, like Tik TOK and Instagram, I’m really interested. And as a content creator myself, I’m much more interested in what people who are creating.

[00:05:55]Let me rephrase that. I’m less interested in say what Gary V is doing right then what your average content creator, who’s just started a platform, just because they’re interested in creating a particular type of content or they want to experiment. So some of the people I follow on Tik TOK, for example, I follow a tick-tock in nun.

[00:06:14]Who’s on Tik TOK. I follow this guy who in the UK who he works on a farm and he does really exciting things like shows us, you know, lambing and shows little baby lambs being born and shows us around the farm. But also then does Tik TOK dances. I. I think you might have, you might remember the the whole thing with it.

[00:06:35] Oh my God. What are they called? The the folks that they’re folky songs, what were they called? The sea shanties. That’s what I’m talking about. The whole fish shanty thing that went viral on tick-tock. I like to say that I was ahead of the curve because I was watching sea shanties. Cause I liked music and I kind of saw that happen.

[00:06:51] I saw that guy just showing up with this guitar and creating this really engaging content. And then it just taking off and what I think we can learn from almost like non marketers is these kind of people. They often just turn up and they create content because they’ve got a passion for a particular topic and they learn how to engage their audience almost on the job if you like.

[00:07:15] And they create really engaging content. And they respond to what their audience wants. And I feel like they’re the people that I’m looking for my, when it comes to inspiration for content, they’re the kind of people I’m looking towards, probably not your marketing gurus or guarantees or whatever.

[00:07:31]And it’s not about volume, is it? It’s about the impact that you make. And it’s about that kind of content comes from a really honest, genuine place. Like I just, I’ve got the stuff that I’m going to talk about, these things that I want to share, and I’m going to get out there and I’m going to have fun.

[00:07:46] I’m seeing a lot more fun people having a lot more fun, creating their content, which is good. Does that kind of make sense? Yeah, I 

[00:07:51] Jeff Sieh: [00:07:51] totally agree. 

[00:07:51]

Content Curation vs Content Creation

And the question I also want to ask is because now do you sh cause there’s this thought also for went back to the marketing angle of content creation versus curation.

[00:08:02] So do you share out. Like to your audience, to the dancing, none and say, Hey, this is a great thing. I mean, cause I know there’s a balance and I know a lot of people talked about, yeah, you got to curate content, but you also got to create it and you have to have a balance. What are your thoughts on that? Is that switch, do we need to even curate content anymore or should we just worry about creating it?

[00:08:22] Janet Murray: [00:08:22] Well, I guess I can draw on my own experience of using content, curation. I should say in my own marketing to build, I really grew my Instagram account very quickly. Last year. I think it was in the back end of 2019 by curation. So by sharing memes and inspirational quotes. But I feel like, with anything with content and trends people start to get to tire a little bit of the same type of content and.

[00:08:50] I’m not sure there’s still lots of meme accounts about But I think maybe people are actually getting a bit tired of that kind of mode of, content. And I grew an account of mine really quickly, cause I’m always experimenting with trying to get out really quickly, by sharing like really good quotes, other peoples.

[00:09:09] And for awhile, I was really saying to people like, you know, you don’t have to create this content yourself. you can create other people’s really amazing content. But actually I think we are seeing a shift towards original content and more personality based content because ultimately that’s what it comes down to.

[00:09:27] So to back to your question about the TikToking nun I mean, I do share those, that sort of content with my audience, but. If I was just to put that in my story and say, Hey, look at this TikToking nun, then people were kind of laugh and say, oh, that’s fun. That’s great. But actually I think it’s kind of my job to set that in context.

[00:09:50] so maybe by grabbing an interview with the TikToking nun still waiting to see if she says yes. or, by including that kind of content, say my own podcast or something. So I think curtating just sharing other people’s content. I think that was something that was working really well for a while, but I, feel, or I’m certainly seeing that people are kind of tiring of that and they’re wanting much more original content.

[00:10:17] And again, as people have got much more into reels and TikTok’s where people are creating really original personality based content, I do see that it’s becoming less attractive. I think that type of curation, I don’t know what you think. 

[00:10:33] Jeff Sieh: [00:10:33] Yeah, I agree. And I think it all comes down to. And it’s a struggle.

[00:10:36] It’s always been a struggle for brands and businesses to show that personal side and use that to storage. I think one of the reasons, you know, Tik TOK and the short form content has taken off like reels, like you mentioned, is it storytelling, but condensed there’s a beginning and their end to each one of those, you know, tic talks or, and it makes you laugh or it shows you insight or behind the scenes, or it’s Janet doing a dance, which you wouldn’t expect, you know, when you see that stuff on a real, but, you know, so I think that, and I think, but it’s also showing behind, even if you sh, if I started, if I did a dance on Tik TOK, people would watch that because it’s like, oh my gosh, Jeff does dancing as it is behind the scenes.

[00:11:15] It’s like what in the world? And so I think that I do agree that it’s kind of on the forefront and I know we’re going to get on some of this a little bit later, but I want to bring up some of our friend’s comments. Charles says over on YouTube, he goes, impact is all about impact. Yes, totally agree.

[00:11:30] And he also says, he thinks that was a great question. Well, thank you, Charles. He says, I think people ultimately want more of you, the creator, and that’s hard. That’s hard being out there. I mean, even life is hard, but I think you are on the right. The right idea there. And Dustin, our friend Dustin says, I think curation depends on the platform.

[00:11:48]Some platforms are less appropriate for curating, for example, YouTube. So it doesn’t have to watch it over YouTube. Thank you, Dustin. But yeah, that is very true because you don’t see a lot of there are channels, which, and I’ve I have fought against some of the not fight against, but I had conversations with people about there’s some people who all they do, it seems like they curate like those real famous speakers and.

[00:12:08] Not steal, but pretty much. And they built channels around that and I’m like, that’s, you know, those succeed too. So yeah, you’re right. Destin. It depends on the platform, but yeah, so, and he goes like platforms, like Pinterest are still heavily about curation, so awesome stuff today. You guys I’m so glad.

[00:12:25] Thank you for your comments. Keep them coming and ask your questions to Janet because she is super smart about all this stuff, but I wanted to get into this first segment that we’re going to talk about kind of this content management and strategy. The big wave is here. Grace, break this down for us.

Content Marketing Institute Content Management and Strategy Survey

[00:12:41] Grace Duffy: [00:12:41] Yeah. So this was new research from our friends over at the content marketing Institute. So for the fifth year in the row, they publish their 20, 21 content management and strategy survey, which is really focused on how marketers are using technology tools to create, manage, deliver, and scale enterprise content and marketing.

[00:13:03] So this of course is the enterprise level, but I believe this does relate to businesses of any size. They also examine how content teams use people processes to precisely target and engage their audiences to create this valuable customer experience. And we’ll talk more about what they mean by valuable customer experience.

[00:13:21] Just a second here, but I found the sat really interesting. They said about 40% of respondents. Their organization aren’t using their existed content technology to its potential. Now, some of the reasons cited is that integration issues, lack of training and the lack of communication about the capabilities, which is not really surprising, given the rush to adopt new technologies over this past year, given the huge shift to more collaborative solutions, you know, as a reaction to remote work.

[00:13:48]They also, we’ve also seen a lot more people freelancing, launching new businesses, new entrepreneurs have launched all over the place this past year. And And so Janet, as an entrepreneur, yourself, and a consultant to other businesses, how do you navigate this conundrum when it comes to technology, how do you determine what will be able to create content better and help build your business?

[00:14:10] I know as someone who works in a, the marketing department of a company, I’m inundated with tools all day long, and I don’t even have time to like really assess them, figure out what’s going on and just like, and I’m a very hands-on person. Like I like to try something and, you know, try test, break, try, test break.

[00:14:26] So, that’s my strategy, but I don’t know that’s really a good use of time, my time. 

[00:14:30]Janet Murray: [00:14:30] I kind of feel like it always comes back to the content. So I think. People are always looking for the latest tool. Like my number one question I get asked, there’s like, what’s the best social media scheduling tool or what’s the best way for me to automate this particular process?

[00:14:47] Like email marketing. Everybody gets. Or certainly most people I work with get so bogged down and should I be using MailChimp? Should I be using Infusionsoft? Should I be using all of these kinds of, you know, email marketing softwares, which is the right one, which is the best last one, but actually you don’t to do email marketing.

[00:15:07] Well, you don’t even need any of this stuff. Like it, for me, it’s more about the story. So, for example, with email marketing and one of the things I’m always trying to get my clients to do is to do look to not bought sequences. So when somebody checks out one of your products or services and you send them an email saying, Hey, I noticed you were checking out my product or service.

[00:15:27] Like, can I answer any questions or whatever? It’s a really good sales strategy, but it’s just follow up. And I will have clients like, who will just for years, we’ll hold back on doing that because they’ll say, well, I it’s difficult for me to get the automation set up where I’m not sure whether I should be on convert kit or I’m not sure whether I should be on active campaign or whatever.

[00:15:48] And I’m like, but you don’t need the tech to do that. To chase somebody who’s checked out your product or service and to have a conversation with them, you don’t need that. So obviously I’m a big fan of tech and I’m always, we’re always looking at how we can improve. One of the things that I’ve been looking at this year is how to organize my content better.

[00:16:07] We’ve just started using air table, but ultimately me having air table, for example, isn’t going to make up for my content, not being very engaging. And so I’m always back to is the constant engaging is it allowing you to have conversations with people? Automation is great. It can make your life easier, but the first thing is always getting the content right.

[00:16:29] Jeff Sieh: [00:16:29] And I think that’s a great point. Yeah. So it doesn’t matter if you have, you know, thousands of thousand dollars of tools, if your content stinks to the doesn’t matter, you know? Yeah. So following on that technology question another finding in that report indicates that teams are becoming more focused on their owned content marketing platforms, like their websites and their blogs, then reacting to like internal reactionary requests.

Should We Be Focused Only on Our Own Content Marketing Platforms?

[00:16:54] So do you, have you found this to be the case about your own client? Like, are they starting to like really dive in deep on their own stuff and not worrying about that other stuff? Or what are you, what have you been finding? 

[00:17:06] Janet Murray: [00:17:06] I find that it’s still a challenge to get people to build an audience on their own land.

[00:17:12] So to get people to publish on their website, to publish YouTube videos, like turn them into a blog post and the websites or podcasts. Make sure that’s all on the website because it’s harder. Isn’t it? And the results, it takes longer to see the results. So I could make an Instagram real today that people really like, and I could be, have a viral real this afternoon, and I’m getting that feedback or just a couple of thousand views that are gonna make me feel better or a sale, or somebody’s gonna get in touch with me.

[00:17:41] I think the thing about getting people to build an audience on their website. On their own land, if you like is huge for me. And it’s always been really important for me, but it’s a longer game, isn’t it? I still have people who get in touch with me about things I wrote years ago and asked me if I’ll do you work for them?

[00:17:58] You know, things I wrote on my blog years ago I have some blog posts that make sales for me every single day, but it’s a long game, isn’t it? And you can’t put something up on your blog or on your podcast that you publish on your website, whatever, and expect to be top of Google, you know, the next day.

[00:18:16] And so I think that’s always, for me, for the smaller business owner, that’s always a harder sell because. It’s about playing a long game. Social media gives you that short-term hit doesn’t it. And it can give you that short term feedback that your content is good. But with content that you’re creating on your own platforms, I’m hundred percent, you know, toast delete, always trying to persuade my clients that it’s really worth doing, because that’s what will bring them leads and sales further down the line for years to come along with their email marketing.

[00:18:45] But for me, it’s always a harder sell because I think we’re in a society. It’s interesting report will interested me from that point of view. I wonder if people saying what they think people want them to say rather than actually what’s really going on. I don’t know. But I feel like it’s all.

[00:19:02] You have to really play a long game with that side of things. It’s well worth it, but I think social media makes it so easy to say, I’ll tell you what, I’ll just do another social media posts, because then I’ll get that immediate feedback that I’m doing. Okay. 

[00:19:14] Jeff Sieh: [00:19:14] So that’s the thing that I’ve always said too, is like, yeah.

[00:19:16] So, it’s great to have a Tik TOK video that goes viral. My, my son’s girlfriend has some that have gone viral, no sales, nothing. It’s, you know, if it doesn’t have a place for you to, for them to land where you actually are converting them, getting them on your list or selling them something. And then you know, that those social posts just like you said, really doesn’t matter since we’ve been talking about tech and some other things I wanted to ask and see if like, You know, you know, we, and cause I’ve been to your conference, I know you’re really big on list building and building that email list is, you know, and like for us, we have this text message that we have.

[00:19:50] We send out reminders before the show at I’ll just say at nine oh three, two eight seven nine zero eight eight is, is SCMS, SMS, something that would be another way to do that. Are there any other new technologies that you’re exploring that kind of works with that email list building kind of philosophy?

Other Ways to Grow Besides an Email List

[00:20:07] Janet Murray: [00:20:07] Yeah. And obviously using messenger apps is huge and obviously text messaging can be part of that as well as cause certainly something that I use in my own business I’ve got early access. I don’t even know if I’m allowed to say I’ve got early access to an Instagram messenger. Feature.

[00:20:23]So I’ve been getting to try out lots of cool stuff on Instagram, delivering lead magnets to people. And and as part of that, we can use text messaging as well. So I think messaging is going to continue to be huge both on social media platforms, but also by tax. And what I love about it is obviously that you can reach people in different ways.

[00:20:44] So people can go to my Instagram. If you want to, you can go to the, you can go and click, can we Instagram and try this out, but my message will deliver you my lead magnet. And then we’ll. Then we’ll follow up with you by email. And I love the way that all of those different ways of there’s different methods of communication, I guess, could interact with each other.

[00:21:06] I’ve just created a new quiz for an audience growth quiz. And that will you do the little quiz in my messenger, either on Facebook or Instagram. And then it will deliver those results by email. And then if you want to if you’re going to come to a webinar or something like that, you could then get a reminder by text.

[00:21:21] So I think also the more choices we have to. To say how we want to be communicated with as well. So some of us prefer text messages, don’t know some people prefer messenger, and I love the way that I love the way that all of that tech can interact with each other and how you can have a conversation with somebody on social media and using that kind of tech.

[00:21:44] They can be on your email list and you can be nurturing that, that new person within seconds. So that’s all really exciting, I think. And I think there’s lots of new developments coming there. 

[00:21:53] Jeff Sieh: [00:21:53] Awesome. So there’s a couple of questions I wanted to bring up. First of all, Charles says great information being shared here.

[00:21:59] Thank you, Charles. I appreciate that. And Hilton says Instagram DM automation was open to the public on the 2nd of June. So that is a relatively new thing. Thank you, Hilton for sharing that with us. Real quick question here is this is a long one. So it’s going to cut. So this is from Marino says we’ve been dealing with content marketing so far.

[00:22:16] And to me it seems like we’ve got to the edge of that era. Since all social media are flooded with content, mostly useless for businesses. Now we’ve come to understand that mass marketing is made out of smaller and smaller niches or niches. What is the next big thing? So do you think the next big thing and answering kind of, Marino’s question there is that it’s, it is those messenger.

[00:22:35] And then as the AI and that kind of stuff develops, it will become more and more personal. Is that what you think kind of the next big thing would be?

What’s the Next Big Thing in Content Marketing?

[00:22:44] Janet Murray: [00:22:44] Yeah, I think so. And I also think it’s about, again, short form content. So being able to. I’m a big fan as a writer by trade. I’m a big fan of being able to say what you need to say or get across what you need to say in the least amount of words possible, or the least, you know, in the medium that is most accessible to you.

[00:23:03]So yeah, I definitely I feel that’s where we’re going, but I also feel what I love about all of this is the accessibility part of it, because I think communication being able to choose the way that you want to be communicated, the way you want to be marketed to even like, you know, I want you to market to me by text message, or I prefer you to market to me by email or whatever it is, be able to kind of, appeal to people’s learning styles, I guess, or the way that people communicate.

[00:23:33] I think that’s really powerful. And everything’s just so much easier now, isn’t it just to be able to kind of, you know, Pull out your phone and create a short welcome video to make things feel much more personal. Yeah, we, I love the fact that everything is getting more and more personalized and more and more down to people’s personal preferences that we can have more influence over that.

[00:23:54]And I also love the fact that everything’s shorter and more accessible and we can have that information delivered to us in a medium that that we most, you know, that we find the most accessible. That’s a 

[00:24:03] Jeff Sieh: [00:24:03] good point. Good point. So, grace, did you have a question or are we ready for the next section?

[00:24:08] I can’t 

[00:24:08] Grace Duffy: [00:24:08] remember. We’re ready for the next section. I have the same question as marina, so good job marina. Thank you so much for asking that. That was a good one. So the next segment we want to talk to or talk about is creating truly great content experiences that succeed at scale. So we’re looking as we’re researching for this for the show I came across this article in marketing Pross it’s titled the three new rules for content experience by Randy Frisch.

[00:24:33] And in this article, Randy sites. A 2021 B2B marketing report, which addresses this enormous disconnect that seemed to be happening between what marketers are prioritizing versus what buyers truly wants. Given this new space in which we are completely inundated with marketing content. And, you know, it’s getting harder to create that stuff that engages in entices for your audience.

[00:24:57] So to start buyers do not want to be sold to according to this study, they want to be educated. And the study found that. More than half of buyers are what they find useful is user reviews, product tours, and videos. But guess what? Marketers prioritize sales, sheets, white papers, and e-books which we all know are those lead magnets, we’re all supposed to be creating.

[00:25:20] Right. And so then customers also want a solution focused content and they want it to be relevant and they want it to be timely. So how do we create these personalized content experiences that are both timely and relevant, but also at scale it’s like the project management triangle I saw in business school of like, what is it?

[00:25:37] Like something could be like quick done. Well, yeah. Yeah. So, and I feel like now we’ve pulled that triangle apart, so we want it all. How do we get it all Janet?

How Can We Create a Personalized Content Experience That Is Timely and Relevant, but Also at Scale? 

[00:25:51] Janet Murray: [00:25:51] I think it just comes back to the principles, which I like to think we’ve been using for years, which is just listening to your audience and just talking to them and asking them what it is that they want and how they want you to talk to them.

[00:26:02]I certainly noticed a shift in my own content where educational content is, what people want. They want you to educate them, not only about The problems that they’re having, that maybe your products or services solve and they want you to educate them about your products and to tell them more and be able to ask questions and to find out more, had a really interesting conversation, actually the other day with a client who was talking about how she was posting on LinkedIn and she was getting loads of engagement.

[00:26:27] She’d been following my strategies, which is just about starting conversations. Obviously just got to go to stick that in, but she was saying, but I feel like I should be putting sales posts out. She’s like, I’m getting loaded engagement. People are really getting involved in the conversations that I’m starting, but I’m just like where’s the sales post.

[00:26:46] And I said to her, you don’t have to put a single sales post out ever. Like as long as people are reaching out to you and want to work with you, which is what’s happening to her, you don’t ever have to put any sales posts, whatever. Like, if you’re starting interesting conversations, if people see you as a resource, if they just want to be in your community, if you like.

[00:27:07] I mean, I think community is becoming more and more important. Like, I feel like we’ve always talked about social media in the past. This has been like almost like a TV station or a radio station where we just broadcast up people. Whereas when I talk about like my main point. Product is build your online audience.

[00:27:23] And in a way I wish I’d called it, build your online community because that’s really building an audience. It’s this idea, isn’t it of like you getting up there and talking to people and telling people how it is and what to do and whatever, whereas actually really it should be build your online community because that’s what people, even when they’re buying products and services, they’re buying into your community.

[00:27:44] Aren’t they want to be part of your world. And I do think in a really noisy world, People want to be entertained, I think much more in their content and they want to be educated. They want to have conversations. They want to feel part of your community. And I think that’s where we’re at. And I think Jeff, your original question was about how do you create that at scale?

[00:28:06] That was what you saw was in the air. And it’s difficult, isn’t it? Because I was actually creating some content earlier and I was thinking, I know this is going to be out of date. Really? And I was thinking to myself, like, should I create this content? Because it’s actually like a three-part podcast.

[00:28:25]And I think, should I create this content? Because I know that even though my audience want this now and they want this information like today, but it’s going to be out of date and I’m going to have to include a bit that says, oh, by the way, if you’re listening, even in a few months time, it might be out of date.

[00:28:39] And I’m thinking, should I not create that content? Because. It’s inconvenient for me because I might have to update it or I might have to, but then I thought to myself, well, no, again, this is about my ideal clients and customers and they really want this information. So yes, it’s a bit more inconvenient for me.

[00:28:57] So I feel like we’re going to, we are having to be more responsive. And I do think that this short form content, which I talked about at the beginning, these reels and tech, they give us a way to actually educate people like today instead of having to wait, you know, somebody asks me a question about how do you do this on Instagram or whatever.

[00:29:16] I can create that content for them today. And I can post it today rather than them having to wait for my podcast in six weeks or whatever, because it’s scheduled and it’s always a bit of a balance, but then I think, well, you can integrate that content. So I’ve been integrating the contents that I’ve been creating.

[00:29:34] My Instagram reels. I’ve been. Using that in my podcast and finding ways to repurpose it, if you like. So I think that perhaps the days of planning content months and months ahead, that might not be, you know, I think I personally feel consumers. Are they’re looking for you to be more responsive because that’s the world that we live in.

[00:29:55] Jeff Sieh: [00:29:55] I, I totally, I think I agree with that because like, for this show, a lot of times the news we get planned and a guest, like, you know, two days before we go live, because we want to keep it relevant and keep it, you know, what’s going on. You know, we looked at FAA, we thought about talking about that today.

[00:30:10] It wasn’t exciting. So that’s why we kind of switched it up on Janet. And she’s like, okay, by the way, we’re not going to talk about that. We’re going to talk about this instead. So, because I knew she was good and I knew that a lot of people needed to hear this. So not only do marketers to think about, you know, their content creation, we’ve talked about that a lot, but they also need to consider distribution and the destination.

[00:30:28] So what do you tell your clients? Like if someone were to take this moment to maybe reevaluate the distribution and their experience, portion of their content marketing approach, how would they go about doing that? You know, where would you tell them to start.

Where Should We Start In Content Marketing?

[00:30:43] Janet Murray: [00:30:43] So the first thing I always get my clients to look at is niche or niche.

[00:30:48]Well actually just to start off and say, well, you know, w what is it that I’m trying to achieve here? And who is it? I need to reach in order to do this. So I guess there’s two parts to it. And then it’s okay, so who am I audience basically? And what do I need to say to them? And what’s the best way to reach them.

[00:31:05] Now I have clients sometimes who literally will hold off creating any kind of like evergreen style content on their website, because they are desperate to know the answer to this question, which is what’s better YouTube or podcast. And I’m always like, well, you know, and they’re reading all the reports and I’ve say that the best one is the one that you can stick to.

[00:31:26] So if you, yes, you might read that you choose where it’s at and that’s where you should be or whatever. But actually, if that’s. That’s too much for you. It’s too overwhelming and there’s too many pieces to it and you’ve not really done it before, but it’s easier for you to just plug in your mic and record a podcast.

[00:31:42] That’s what you should do. And if you if writing’s easier for you, there’s still a place for written blogs as well. But I think that often people are wanting to wait for somebody to tell them that this is the right content form. This is the right way that you should be doing it. But actually ultimately it comes back to your audience, like, who are they?

[00:32:03] What do they need to hear from you? What’s the best medium for that? I find that. There’s usually an audience for whatever you sell on whatever platform, you know, so what you feel comfortable with, if you hate video, starting a YouTube channel, a lot of people do, a lot of people do get better at it, but some people are just never really going to be video people, but they might be good at was.

[00:32:23] Yeah, well, they might really Excel on a blog. So I think it’s a combination between, you know, what is it your audience needs to hear from you? And then it’s about choosing a platform that you feel comfortable on and that you can stick to. I think a lot of people are just trying to do it the right way and trying to kind of say, well, you know, that person does it like that or that, you know, and actually it’s got to suit you, it’s got to suit your lifestyle.

[00:32:45] It’s got to suit the way that you work and your personality. So that will always be the first place that I would start. Does that kind of make sense? 

[00:32:53] Jeff Sieh: [00:32:53] Yeah. And so I always tell people like, I don’t know why I do this live video thing. Cause I have a face that is made for Photoshop. So it’s perfect. So, but it’s just, it seems to be working.

[00:33:02] So, one of the things that I’m going to boy a little bit, but one of the you mentioned talking about like providing value and having people, you know, not doing the sales stuff. And like I fanboy about Lou Mongiello all the time, but he talks about, he just goes lives and provides value and he has built up this humongous community around, you know, his Disney and going into the parks and you know, it’s very popular, but he’s got these communities that will, that.

[00:33:27] Support him and make him, he has a great living from this and he doesn’t ever really sell. I mean, he mentions his stuff, but that is really hard for businesses, I think, to get their mind around. So talk, you know, we talked about it a little bit, but circle around. And what do you tell clients? Like you mentioned the lady who was on Instagram and she was like, I never do sales stuff.

[00:33:48] Do you tell them, never do sales stuff? Or do you have a formula that you give them like out, you know, one out of 10 posts, maybe you can do a sales thing.

Providing Value and Also Selling

[00:33:56] Janet Murray: [00:33:56] Yeah. That’s another thing everyone wants to know, like exactly what percentage done it of my patients. Tell me exactly. And I’m like, well, it really depends.

[00:34:07] Doesn’t it? And it depends on what you’re selling. It depends on who your audience is. Also. It might depend on. You know, when you’re big launching something, you might do a lot more salesy posts. And you know, when you’re not big on launching something, you might do less, you might be in a phase where your audience building.

[00:34:21]So everybody wants like the magic answer and there isn’t one. Unfortunately I wish there was because my job would be a lot easier. And I mean, I don’t do a lot of salesy posts. I tend to favor more like getting it’s like community based. So I’ve just launched a podcast. And I know, I mean, the stats tell me that if I just post those stuff, like, Hey, listen to my new book.

[00:34:43]That’s me. That’s about me. It’s not about my audience, so I will do lots of things. So. I had a wait list. So I wrapped up my old podcast in April and I had a wait list. And then I had a podcast wrap-up party and a wait list. And then I’ve been building that wait list for a couple of months. And then when it came to choosing the artwork and the cover, you know, got people to vote on the covers and got people to give me feedback on what content I should create for them.

[00:35:11] I think it’s really powerful if you can get people involved in the creation of your products and services, and they feel invested in it. Like I sell this diary and every year we have a thing where people get to vote on the covers. And so, you know, we whittle it down to eight and then people vote and then, oh, you know, it was mine in the top one.

[00:35:26]And so it’s about kind of getting people involved in the journey with you. The other thing I think a lot of people don’t do is people in order to buy like. I think it’s Chris Ducker always says it’s a really good way of putting it, but people love to buy, but they don’t like to be sold to, which is so true.

[00:35:46] But so in order to get people to buy from us, they need to desire or products or services. And I think that’s so you can create desire by doing some of the things that I was just talking about. They’re not getting people involved in the creation process, but people have to, they have to want to hold your product in their hands, or they have to see themselves at your restaurant, or they have to like waterway or the clothes or whatever.

[00:36:10] And I think a lot of people miss that, even established businesses and, you know, they’ll put PO poor photography out or they’ll put, you know, they’re put based businesses to have poor photography or no photography and wonder why no one’s buying their stuff. So I’m always with content. I’m like your content has to meet an emotional need and there’s well, there’s two needs actually.

[00:36:30] So often it’s about meeting a practical need, but when your content isn’t connecting with people emotionally, that’s just when it’s going to kind of sink. And when you can draw people in by publishing relatable content or content that makes people feel something and that they’re emotionally evolved and or they desire.

[00:36:49] They, you know, they want to hold that product in their house. They want to wear the stuff they want to live in the place, or stay in the beam, Airbnb or whatever it is. That’s, I think what we need to be trying to do and it’s that, you know, that’s quite a hard thing to do, and it can be quite a hard thing to do when we’re challenged.

[00:37:06] You know, as small business owners sometimes as well, you know, with budget, we may not have the budget for, well, we’re kind of, you know, top notch photography or whatever, but I think that’s what we always need to be striving for in our con in our content is we don’t have to sell directly that much. If people are desiring the product, the service, they want to be part of the community.

[00:37:27]I was teaching a class this morning, actually about Facebook groups and how to sell in Facebook groups. And everybody’s like, right, okay. Show me the strategies. Like, how do I say, hang on a minute, let’s just go back. Like the first thing you have to do in a Facebook group is you have to assemble a community of people who.

[00:37:43] Who like each other and want to be around each other and have got the same problems and want to talk about the same thing. So we were talking for example, about Erin Condron. I don’t know if I’m saying that right. As planners, she has like a fun Facebook group for the planners and people in there, like geeking out and saying like, how do I clean this something or other, somebody was talking about some kind of friend complaining or something.

[00:38:05] They’re all geeking out together over these planners. They desire this product. They desire to be part of this lifestyle. And I think that’s the bit that we have to, that we really have to tap into and it can be really hard. 

[00:38:19] Jeff Sieh: [00:38:19] Oh, I 

[00:38:20] Grace Duffy: [00:38:20] agree. You’re talking to my heart. You’re talking to my heart here because I actually have a happy planner.

[00:38:24] So, and it’s the same thing. Like I am part of a Texas happy planner group. And then that dis that tan into a Dallas area, happy planner group. And that’s what I’m part of. So you brought up a really good like really good point about, you know, you have this like users, you have these audiences, community members that are excited.

[00:38:43] And that made me think about user generated content. And how much are you instructing your your customer, your clients, and leveraging that user generated content. And sometimes it’s hard to get people to like, oh, you like my product? Can you talk about it? Can do a video about it. Can you do that? Right?

[00:38:58] How do you basically get your audience to, to talk about your product online in a way where you’re not necessarily having to ask for it or you ask for it, but you don’t ask for it right. To use a Tik TOK phrase, like tell me you love your happy planner without telling me.

How to Get Organic Sales

[00:39:17] Janet Murray: [00:39:17] I was trying to find it. I think I have one of my planners on my desk, but I’ve moved it. But again, it’s about desires. If people really desire the product, if they think I’m going to look really cool holding this, or I’m gonna you know, people are gonna. At Miami, if I wear this or whatever people will show, it will show it off.

[00:39:32] Anyway. So my diabetes, for example, that’s what I was looking for. One people just send me when the diet, because they look beautiful when they’re diary, w we have a whole buildup where they, we have a wait list and then we have a pre-launch and people choose their covers during the pre-launch. And so people are excited when their planner like lands there and they’re sending photos on Instagram stories and we reshare them and all of this sort of stuff, because they look nice.

[00:39:55] So again, it’s about creating a great product and something that people want to be part of. They want to be part of that community, and they want to see themselves as the kind of person that plans and uses this beautiful diary. But the other part of it. Is, if you want people to give you great customer testimonials, you just have to make it really easy for them.

[00:40:11] So you have to ask. So, you know, when we send out the planners, we will obviously say, please tag me in a photo. And here’s how to do it on Instagram. What I’ve really learned to get great testimonials. It’s so easy, but the reason people don’t give great testimonials is because they don’t know how to do it.

[00:40:28]So I have some really great video testimonials of my clients. Like talking about how much they enjoy the programs or whatever it is. And I have templates for them. So I’ve created these templates that they can just fill in the gaps. Because the reason, I mean, I don’t, I want to help people and give testimonials, but it just feels like one of those jobs where you’re like, oh, you know, I can’t be bothered.

[00:40:48]And so if you give people a testimonial or you say, let’s just jump on a phone call and I’ll draft it for you and I’ll send it to you or we’ll do on a zoom call, I’ll do all the editing. So I’ve got some fantastic video testimonials because I’ve given my clients. A template and I’ve given them instructions how to do it.

[00:41:03]The thing I’ve discovered is that reason people don’t always give you user generated content that kind of goes, you know, social proof is again, cause they don’t know how to do it. So having just launched a new podcast, I wanted to get as many iTunes reviews, iTunes. It I’d just say iTunes. I meant apple podcasts as soon as possible.

[00:41:21] And and, but I thought there’ll be some people in my audience. I know who won’t leave me a review. Not because they don’t want to, because they don’t know how to do it and they can’t find it. So I created a video showing people how to do it on a mobile and how to do on a desktop and just and we used the, my clever little messenger bot to we put the competition in.

[00:41:38] So we had a competition as well and said like, if you had a wait list, do you want to be the first to hear about the new podcast? And there’s a competition in order to enter, you need to listen to the podcast and leave a review. And if you don’t have to do it, here’s a video. And so what I’m always doing, trying to take all the barriers out of the way when people make it easy for you to make a review or they.

[00:41:56] Incentivize you, then you do it. But when you’re like, ah, I don’t really know how to do that. I’ve now got to go on apple podcasts and work out. Right. And I think we underestimate how much people don’t know, like just cause we know how to do something. Doesn’t mean that the next person does. 

[00:42:11] Jeff Sieh: [00:42:11] Yeah.

[00:42:11] Pretend like you’re explaining it to your mother. That’s what I do. It’s like, okay, mom, this is what you do. And by the way, so I want to do this because as we’re, we’ve been talking about podcast and we talked about this last week, Eric and I were talking about, you know, now the call to action should be, if you have a podcast, no longer to say subscribe to my podcast, because that implies that there’s money involved.

[00:42:30] If you say, go follow mine. And that’s what they’re telling you now to do with apple. So make sure you do that, but we want to make sure you guys go check out Janet’s podcast that she launched. It’s amazing. It’s like number one on the UK and in like marketing and business or something like that. It’s going bonkers over there.

[00:42:45] So if you want to check out her podcast, make sure you go to courageous-content.captivate.fm, and you’ll see all her podcasts there. And there’s a little button after you listen to when it says, subscribe, click on that. And then go use the subscribe to your favorite player or whatever, but I’d love for you guys to go check it out.

[00:43:02]I would consider it a personal favor if you would go there and leave her a rating and review because that really helps out a new podcast. A couple of comments real quick. I wanted to bring up Hilton’s comment. He says that’s brilliant about getting people involved in the creation process getting them to vote.

[00:43:16] Love it. And then Marino says, I always asked myself the same question before posting any content. Does this resonate with a problem, an interest or an extended see the pie model of my community or tribe? Does this resonate with all of you? It does. And in fact, if you guys are struggling with. How in the world to do these cool live videos and lower thirds and everything that I’m doing today.

[00:43:38] Make sure you guys go check out our friends over at Ecamm who sponsor and make this show possible. You can go to socialmedianewslive.com/ecamm. They’re amazing. If you can dream up a live video, they can make it happen. So make sure you go check them out and grace somebody that’s dear and close to your heart as well.

[00:43:55] Talk about them a little bit. 

[00:43:56] Grace Duffy: [00:43:56] Well today, we’re doing this awesome deep dive into content creation with our very special guests, the amazing Janet Murray and there’s no better way to distribute that awesome content that you’re creating. Then Restream, especially if you’re using live video, audio or podcasting as part of your marketing strategy.

[00:44:15] So everything from custom branding to multi streaming to over 30 online destinations, because why only choose one, choose them all, go to all of them like we do, right. Get all the tools you need to create a stunning live video show, live podcast, everything that you need to create this engaging and enticing content, right with Restream 

[00:44:35] Jeff Sieh: [00:44:35] right.

[00:44:35] And Samantha, maybe I gave the wrong link, but I’m going to put this one up too, that you can go figure out her podcast. Samantha says it’s at Janet murray.co.uk forward slash courageous content podcast. So I think that one works as well. So 

[00:44:50] yeah, she’s everywhere. Yeah, I use Stitcher and that’s how I found it.

[00:44:53] So, and Jan’s face is on there. So you cannot miss it. It is like we said, number one in marketing in the UK and number two in the business charts. So she just launched too. Right. So we did want to talk to you about your podcast. So, you know, we know you just launched it. Tell us about it.

[00:45:09]Tell us what prompted it and what got you. Got you going.

How and Why Janet Created Her Podcast

[00:45:14] Janet Murray: [00:45:14] So I had another podcast for four years, 450 episodes. And it was going fine, but people were still listening and seemed to enjoy it, but I felt like it had run its course. And you know, when you get those TV shows where they just do one too many extra seasons.

[00:45:30] And I felt like I was in danger of doing that when you’re like, do you know what really would have been good if they finished it season? Whatever. So I, but I also, I wouldn’t say I was like, Bored particularly, but I was starting to, you know, when you just kind of knocking them out and I didn’t want to do that.

[00:45:46]So I decided to park it beginning of April and I’d been working on something new and I came up with the courageous content podcast because I feel like particularly with my audience as well, is that yes, you can have all the tricks and people can show you all the strategy. But if you’re fearful about putting yourself out by, you know, things like video, what we’re doing now even just using the tech, like when you were talking there about using e-com and restream and whatever, like it’s hard, isn’t it to learn how to do all of that stuff.

[00:46:17]And sometimes you’re learning while you’re doing it live, you know, it’s the same with Instagram reels or whatever. So I wanted to create something that addressed. Like people’s challenges around creating the content. So came up with this idea, the courageous content podcast, and I wanted to be more courageous on it as well.

[00:46:31] So I’ve changed the format. So I’ve got these pitching interviews, which are not just kind of live coaching, but you’d also hear me chip in and then talk about when I wasn’t a great coach or, you know, I should have asked the basic question here, or, oh, actually I got a bit rattled by that or whatever. So there’s a bit of me sort of jumping in.

[00:46:48]I’ve got these amazing expert interviews. And one of the things I wanted to do actually was avoid interviewing marketers because as I was saying earlier, I really looked to non marketers for my content inspiration. So I’m looking at the tick talking none, or I’m looking at the guy. Birthing lambs on his farm or who else I’m interviewing this girl who’s a P and S used to play at the Savoy hotel in London and how she’s reinvented herself on Tik TOK.

[00:47:14] That’s where I get my inspiration from is looking at almost like ordinary people who just jump on and start creating this amazing content. I think we can learn a lot. And then I’ve still got the solo episodes, but. Short form content. Again, I just like, I’ve been doing so much editing to make them much shorter.

[00:47:29] I used to just send an interview to my podcast editor and to make it sound nice. But actually I thought I only want to, I’m a writer by foot by trade and we have this phrase, it’s like make every word work for its PA pace on the page. And I kind of thought, I want to make every word, wait, work for its place in people’s ears.

[00:47:48] So a lot shorter episodes a lot more, even at the interviews, if I feel, you know, sometimes you get, you ask somebody a question and they maybe don’t fully answer it, or there’s some ambiguity, so I’ll jump in and then say, actually, I think what they meant here was this or whatever. So, I’m even going to be doing some tutorials on the podcast.

[00:48:04] So I’m trying to be more courageous in my content because I think. If you are a content marketing person, that’s what people know you for people kind of expect you to lead. And I felt things were getting stale, not just on my podcast, but on other people’s content as well. So I felt like I needed to shake things up a bit.

[00:48:22] So it launched on Monday, which is a bank holiday in the UK. There’s a holiday. But I was. Number one in marketing in nine hours, which is exciting. And number two in business by I think the next day, although I’m now at number four, which I’m not happy about 

[00:48:38] Jeff Sieh: [00:48:38] after this show, it’s going to go back to number one.

[00:48:42] Hopefully. Yeah. So I wanted to ask this question because you know, I’ve been podcasting for a long time. I produce podcasts for like guy Kawasaki. And so I love podcasting Eric Fisher. And I talked about it last week. If you want to go to school back and listen to that episode or watch that show, that was a really good one about all the new stuff coming out in apple.

[00:49:00] But I want you Janet to tell us, you know, how podcasting has helped grow your business if people are thinking about diving into it and maybe why sh why business owners should consider starting their own podcast.

[00:49:14]

Should Business Owners Start Their Own Podcast?

[00:49:14] Janet Murray: [00:49:14] It’s hard to, it’s hard to even describe how important it’s been. But basically most of my paying clients come from my podcast. They find me, we talked before about, about selling without selling. Well, most of my clients start off on my podcast, this podcast listeners, and then they get to know me and sometimes it can be quite quick, but often it is six months a year or whatever, before they become a client.

[00:49:37] But there’s no sale to me because they’ve been listening to the podcast. They know me, they know my teaching and if they stuck around that long, they probably like it. So when they join one of my programs or they buy one of my products, the diaries often, actually the first thing that they buy, there’s no sale.

[00:49:54] There’s no hard sell because it’s just a relationship. It’s just, they become part of the community and it becomes the natural next step to come and do more with me. So. I love podcasting because otherwise I like video and actually doing Instagram wheels. I feel, I always thought I wasn’t as good. I always thought I wasn’t very good at video and that I was better audio.

[00:50:15]But it’s, I think I’ve got better at video, but I just love the intimacy of being in someone’s ear when people really do feel like they get to know you, like people will come up to you at events. I’m sure you’ve had this as well. Be like, oh, they feel like they know you because there’s something so intimate about being in someone’s ears and you can be in their ears for longer as well.

[00:50:35] So I think it’s so powerful. I’m a massive big. Fun of podcasting. And I think, you know, it’s growing and growing, isn’t it. And I’m interested to see, like, you know, I’m experimenting with my format. I’m interested to see how other people do the same. 

[00:50:50] Jeff Sieh: [00:50:50] Yeah. And Hilton LOL. I am in the funnel.

[00:50:52] I’ll see you in about six months of your funnel. So there he goes. So great. She had one last question and then we’ll wrap up the show because man, this is, we gotta have Janet back. Cause this has been amazing. But ask your last question. 

[00:51:04] Grace Duffy: [00:51:04] I would love to know, since we talking about content creation, how long does it take you to prepare for each of these podcast episodes, at least when you did in the past and in this new format, this new model that you’re doing now?

How Long Does It Take to Prepare for a Podcast?

[00:51:16] Janet Murray: [00:51:16] Oh my Lord. Well, the new format, you know, when you start something new and it does take you awhile, so, and I’ve been so fussy about it. Cause I just wanted to create, somebody said to me, like, What do you want you to do take over business or marketing? And I was like, I just want to make a really good podcast.

[00:51:32]But I mean hours for hours and hours for these first few episodes. But I think as with anything it’s about getting into a workflow, isn’t it. And once you’ve done it a few times, the process becomes a lot easier. I do spend, and actually one of my upcoming podcast episodes, we discussed this at length, but I do my own marketing first, before I touch any client work always have done.

[00:51:56] And I mean, like I do it in the morning before I do anything at work, I keep my mornings free and I don’t see, I don’t see anyone. Like it makes me sound a bit princess ish, but like, I don’t see anyone all the time because. I prioritize creating my own content. And I feel like I can’t very well say to my clients, this is really important.

[00:52:13] You should be doing it. If I’m doing mine at 11 o’clock at night and I’m not prioritizing it. And I also know just like that guy I missed his name. What was it? The name of the guy who said, I’ll see you in six months, but

[00:52:25] it’s so true. Isn’t it like that those hours that you spend today will pay off six months uh, years down the line. It’s hard to say it like that because it’s delayed gratification, isn’t it? But it’s so important. So grace, I couldn’t even begin to tell you.

[00:52:45] Grace Duffy: [00:52:45] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I saw that same advice resonated earlier today on Instagram, actually, there was another one of our friends, Jamie Lieberman, she’s a lawyer at have check lawyer hashtag legal. And she had that same advice where she says that she devotes 30, I think three hours. I don’t know if it’s day or week or whatever on her own marketing for her own business.

[00:53:05] And she basically said the same thing you did. Like you got to take care of your business first, before you start giving that advice.

Closing Thoughts

[00:53:14] Jeff Sieh: [00:53:14] And that is our show. We are right up against the hour here. I think you guys so much for watching and like I said, I could have Janet talk forever. Make sure you guys go check out her podcast.

[00:53:24] That’s up on the screen here@courageous-contentdotcaptivate.fm. Janet, is there any place else that people can go that you want to send them to find out more about you? 

[00:53:32]Janet Murray: [00:53:32] So my website, which is Janet moby.co.uk and Instagram, that’s where I hang out with the most at Jen Marie UK. And be great to say hello over there.

[00:53:41] Yeah. 

[00:53:42] Jeff Sieh: [00:53:42] And make sure you guys go do that because she’s got tons of stuff. Check out her planner, if you want to get in the funnel and see her in six months, just like building, but she’s got some great stuff. Make sure you check that out. We appreciate all of you. Thank you guys so much. Thanks so much for our sponsors can find out more about them at social media news, live.com forward slash e-com and also restream at social media news.

[00:54:01] live.com forward slash restream. Thank you to my amazing co-host and producer grace, Duffy, who is amazing. You can check her out over on restream.io and see all her stuff she’s doing. You’ll see her speaking all over the place. Thank you audience. Our next show is at next Friday at on the 11th at 11 8:00 AM Eastern time.

[00:54:21] 10:00 AM central. Make sure you guys go sign up for our texts at (903) 287-9088. Make sure you get always reminded about that show and with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Appreciate all of you. Thank you, Janet. Bye everybody.