SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Vincent Pugliese: And the number one reason why people leave memberships and nobody understands this or, or thinks about it, the number one reason why people leave is overwhelm.

[00:00:07] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:00:08] Vincent Pugliese: It’s too much information.

[00:00:10] And so they’re trying to build something out with 12 months worth of content. The people joining just need help and connection and, and we, like I say to everybody, you can start any community. If you have the right people with a Facebook group and a Zoom link,

[00:00:23] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:00:24] Vincent Pugliese: you can start that tomorrow if you have people that wanna be a part of a community.

[00:00:28] The questions when it comes to community, it’s ironic, are never really about community. It’s about tech. It’s about the platform,

[00:00:37] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff c and you’re not.

[00:00:41] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:47] Jeff Sieh: You ever wonder what it takes to build a community that people can’t wait to join? Maybe you’re curious about how everyday know-how can grow into a reliable recurring income. Or maybe you’re just ready to transform a simple idea into a thriving membership that lets you work, on it from anywhere. If any of that sounds like you, well, you are in the right place today.

[00:01:08] We’re excited to welcome Vincent Peggi. I can’t, I screwed it up, Vincent. I knew I was gonna do that. We’re excited to welcome Vincent Psi, an expert who’s turned passion into membership freedom and help countless creators do the same. Vince is gonna be unpacking his journey, share some proven strategies, and reveal practical tips for creating communities that last.

[00:01:29] So, sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Vincent, how are you doing today, my friend?

[00:01:38] Vincent Pugliese: Awesome. Pleasure. Honored to be here.

[00:01:40] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, this is gonna be awesome, even though I screwed up his name and I, that’s why I only say his, I’ll say his only last name once and we can edit it in post. That’s what’s gonna happen. But Connor Brown, take it away.

[00:01:49] Conor Brown: Fix it in post. We’ll fix it with ai. We’re good. If you don’t know who Vincent is, you should. Vincent helps those looking to create remote recurring revenue through membership. Take their ideas, skills, or passion, and create online income that gives them time and financial freedom. He leads membership freedom, a community for those who are looking to build or who are already building memberships and provides them with a proven roadmap to achieve their membership goals.

[00:02:19] He is also the host of the Unconference for Entrepreneurs and the author of The Wealth of Connection and Freelance to Freedom. Welcome again to the show Vincent.

[00:02:30] Vincent Pugliese: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Can’t wait. I’m, I’m excited for this. Can’t wait to dive in.

[00:02:34] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so we’ve already got some of our friends showing up, you know, of course the amazing Jim Fs, he’s watching over on YouTube saying, good morning gentlemen. And we’ve got my friend Ralph saying, good morning my friend. So you guys ask your questions ’cause we’re gonna jump into this. ’cause I think community is an untapped thing that a lot of, entrepreneurs don’t do.

[00:02:50] So we’re gonna start out just kind of you know, rolling really fast. And I wanna talk Vincent, about this idea that you have, content first to connection first. Like you’ve kind of flipped the script on that. And in your book, the Wealth of Connection, you say that they come from the, for the content, but they stay for the community.

[00:03:08] So how does that kind of maxim shape the way you advise founders to design memberships and experiences like for this year, 2025?

[00:03:17] Vincent Pugliese: Yeah, it’s, it’s interesting because I say it all the time. Content leads to connection. Connection leads to content. When those come together, you have an offer that you can create. And so often, especially in this day and age now with, with ai, the amount of content that’s being put out is enormous. People aren’t responding the same way, but connection people just kind of, you know, they, they’re not getting it, they’re not getting personal connection with one another.

[00:03:41] So I advise all the time in terms of building a network building, that’s what my book is about, the wealth of connection. It’s all about how you can connect and make these relationships when you can take these connections and you can build relationships that way. And you can create content from what they’re struggling with, what they want, what they desire, and then that content leads to more connection and they go back and forth.

[00:04:03] And it’s so interesting how somebody in our community actually just, they pulled up in chat, GPT, and I’m not. An AI guy, right? At least at this point. I, I love creating my own content. I, I love struggling through writing the books. I like that I write all my own posts. they said, what are two things to chat GPT that, that you can’t, replace right now?

[00:04:23] And the two things chat, GPT said back to them was community and live events. I said, that’s pretty interesting because that’s kind of the world we’ve been in and we’ve always, if we’ve done something good, it’s, we’ve always stayed ahead. Of, of what was coming next. Even when we were in the photography world, which I was in for 20 something years, we saw the writing on the wall.

[00:04:44] Even in terms of newspapers of 2004. That’s what we were in. Like, this is not progressing well. We started our own business at that point. Every step along the line, you’ve gotta be able to look ahead and be like, where is it going to? And when you see this in terms of AI and content and in terms of faceless brands and all that type of stuff, that’s all well and good, but as you develop a personal brand, personal connections, real relationships, that’s how our communities build.

[00:05:09] Not only how they build, but how they stay together and then grow. Because when they find people that are actually like-minded and they connect with one another and they’re really personal, they’re telling their friends about it, whereas everybody else is trying to use all these systems to get more people to stay involved, but there’s no connection there.

[00:05:25] The connection is what’s missing and is gonna become more and more valuable as the AI world continues.

[00:05:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’s a great point.

[00:05:33] Conor Brown: Jeff, I think we should take, Ralph’s question first before we we get going. ’cause I think this is really good to kind of define what a community is, right? Because we say that and, and we think maybe it’s thousands and thousands of, of people, right? But Ralph asked, so before you even get started, how many he downloads?

[00:05:50] He has a daily podcast that he’s doing. Do I really need to consider starting a community? So he’s basically saying, you know, how many people have to know of me or, or know of the content that I create before I can even start with going down the route of building a community.

[00:06:09] Vincent Pugliese: is such an interesting question because I don’t think it has anything to do with downloads and podcasters can argue and disagree. I don’t think it has any, you can start it without downloads, without a podcast. If you have a message and something that you want to create and you have relationships of people that want to be a part of what you do.

[00:06:27] You can start a community, and a community doesn’t have to be large. It could be 10 people to start. It does not have to be big. the first thing I ever did close to 10 years ago was, a mastermind. And there were, you know, of the first six people that I offered it to, five of them joined and paid and there was no podcast and there was nothing like that.

[00:06:47] I was writing my first book, and that built out to where once that grew and sold out, and then we had multiple ones, we had people from connections and com, other communities saying, Hey, can’t really afford the mastermind. But if you started something with a lower price, with maybe less access I’d be in it.

[00:07:05] And okay, and I’ll, explain this later in terms of a theory that we have in, building this out, it, all built from there. So I think content creators, no, Ralph, I’m, I’m not looking to disagree, I think they get this wrong in terms of your podcast or your email list, if you don’t have engagement.

[00:07:23] If you don’t have personal connection, it’s really hard to build it because, I’ll give you an example. We had somebody that joined our community ’cause they were frustrated. They had 48,000 people on their email list, 48,000, a little more than that. And they did a launch, right, the way everybody tells you to do a launch.

[00:07:39] And they got less than 15 people to join their membership outta 48,000. So we kind of a advised and, coached and like we’re talking about here, and then they did what we do, which are more real personal connections, real conversations, learning market research. Tell me what makes sense. What does personal, they had 30 conversations online and in person and they booked more people into their membership than they did with a 48,000 person list of the email launch sequence.

[00:08:10] Right. So they didn’t need the numbers, they need the trust. I. And the relationships. And I think as we talk about, the more this grows, the more podcasts there are, the more AI podcasts there are, the more newsletters there are, it becomes a lot of noise and it comes down to the, the trust in the relationship.

[00:08:28] Jeff Sieh: That’s really interesting because, we have a great question here because this, this flows in right to the Connor’s next question that he’s gonna take is the, what are the best platforms to build these communities on? Like right now, you know, he’s, tech to make is building his on YouTube, but he’s created a small group that does Zoom meetings.

[00:08:46] So does the platform really matter or is it more the, the way you, you know, network and you build those relationships that you have?

[00:08:55] Vincent Pugliese: I love these questions because my answers are always the opposite, where everybody thinks it’s right. I’m, I’m the Seinfeld, I’m the Seinfeld of, of this online world. Like the opposite, like do the opposite because this is the question everybody says right away. They go, what platform do I use? Kajabi, do I use Kartra?

[00:09:11] Is it YouTube? And it matters, but it doesn’t matter because people spend so much time on that. I’ll give an example, and now you’re talking YouTube, but I’ll give an example of Kajabi, which is, I’ve talked to people that they’ve been taught right away, sign up for Kajabi ’cause there’s a great affiliate link, right?

[00:09:27] We could talk about that, right? And now they spend three to four months learning Kajabi, which is not easy to learn right up front. You’re spending 200 bucks a month or whatever it is, and you’re spending all this time on the platform. Let me tell you this, in all my years of running memberships, not one person has ever said your platform’s not good enough.

[00:09:46] Like there’s not, it’s not, it’s, there’s not enough bells and whistles in it. There’s too much stuff already that for people to think about. And the number one reason why people leave memberships and nobody understands this or, or thinks about it, the number one reason why people leave is overwhelm.

[00:10:00] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:01] Vincent Pugliese: It’s too much information.

[00:10:03] And so they’re trying to build something out with 12 months worth of content. The people joining just need help and connection and, and we, like I say to everybody, you can start any community. If you have the right people with a Facebook group and a Zoom link,

[00:10:17] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:10:18] Vincent Pugliese: you can start that tomorrow if you have people that wanna be a part of a community.

[00:10:22] The questions when it comes to community, it’s ironic, are never really about community. It’s about tech. It’s about the platform, it’s about all this stuff as a community is a group of people, right? Any community, and that’s the number one thing that’s overlooked. The people with the relationships will build the community.

[00:10:44] It’s so, so those first two questions of what I hear almost all the time. And I always go the opposite of what everybody thinks.

[00:10:51] Jeff Sieh: Which I think it, so, uh, you, me,we mentioned before, like Connor and Paul, who’s in the audience, is also, in this mastermind that he and I run together. And that all formed very organically from, you know, conferences that we’ve gone to, conversations since happened. We’re like, Hey, this would be great.

[00:11:06] Why don’t we just do this once a week? You know, kind of a thing that we all come together very organic, really, really cool. And Masterminds for me has what’s boosted my business more than anything. So, I think you, you’re spot on on that. It really doesn’t matter what platform. It matters of the people and how you continue building those relationships inside it once you form it.

[00:11:24] Conor Brown: Yeah, I think it’s a big, I call it like the field of dreams syndrome, right? Which I feel like we did back in the day with when social media was first starting. It’s like, I built it. Why aren’t they here? Why aren’t they showing up? You know? And we focus too much on the what and not enough on what or, or how are, are they gonna join?

[00:11:43] And Vincent, you talked a lot about how, you know, you’re not an an AI guy, but so much of social now, which is kind of the top funnel for many people when we think of putting them into a membership or, or bringing them on board to a community, is being created through social media content with the help of, of ai.

[00:12:02] And it’s just becoming oversaturated. It’s not standing out. So when people say, why aren’t people signing up for things? It’s like, well, how are you differentiating yourself? How are you going outta your way? You talk a lot about how. It’s still built on human to human interactions when it comes to, to that community building.

[00:12:19] what are some for you, some, some rituals or, or systems that, that you’re double doubling down on when it comes to, you know, making those communities as personable as possible? Like how, how do you just go about that?

[00:12:33] Vincent Pugliese: A couple things. I think figuring out how to be yourself is key. if you look at the cover of my second book to Wealth of Connections, it says non bestselling

[00:12:41] Jeff Sieh: Right. I love that. Yeah, that was

[00:12:42] Vincent Pugliese: on the cover. I’m the only one. ‘ cause everybody else is a bestselling author. Everybody else did the Amazon thing. They, they hired somebody.

[00:12:49] Whatever it is, everybody’s a bestselling author. Be yourself. All of my content I write. And so it’s ironic how such a simple catchphrase of, if my name’s on it, I wrote, it can stand out in a world where most people can’t say that anymore. Whereas 10 years ago, everybody had to write anything that was their content, right?

[00:13:09] So that attracts a lot of people that like me or also dislike me. I have no problem repelling people. I did a social media post today that will repel people. I have no problem with that if I’m repelling the right people. So in terms of community, you want the right people in and keep the wrong people out.

[00:13:27] So we have a thing on our, you know, if you go to our website. You can’t just sign up, you have to apply

[00:13:34] Conor Brown: Hmm.

[00:13:35] Vincent Pugliese: if my brother-in-law can sign up to it, I don’t wanna run the community

[00:13:40] Jeff Sieh: All right. Yeah, I get it.

[00:13:42] Vincent Pugliese: and his friends and then therefore, like think about a neighborhood. If anybody can come in, what happens to the neighborhood kind of goes to crap, right?

[00:13:49] It kind of does. You have to vet it. So I’m not saying everybody has to do this, but for me we do. Right? I have to know. So even with our event that we do the unconference you can’t buy a ticket before we have a conversation. ’cause I’ve had conversations with people about that and our community where it’s 50 minutes of them just talking about themselves and not asking any questions.

[00:14:09] Well guess what? Curiosity is a big part of developing relationships in community. If you don’t have any questions about me or what we’re doing there’s no invite there. But a lot of people don’t wanna do that ’cause it. You know, suppresses revenue, long term revenue. It’s amazing for short term.

[00:14:26] Yeah, it, it’s hard ’cause you, you want money. I always think in terms of the future, everything I do daily is for the future. It’s for three years from now and we’ve built a light that I don’t have to worry about the money now, but I’m, I wanna build something strong. So, in terms of your question and how do we build, how do we keep that in community?

[00:14:42] Well, I have a thing where, you know, I, I, I wrote about my book, it’s called The Hour of Giving, where I spend the first, essentially the first hour of every day and sometimes multiple hours, just reaching out to people personally first are, you know, the, the coaching clients that I have, and then are the people in our community, our membership, because members go, come first.

[00:15:01] You know, it’s, if you follow Jesse Cole in terms of the Savannah Bananas, you know, his book is called Fans First, which I love. Great book. Totally recommend it. We have a members first philosophy. If you are a part of our community, you’re the first people we think about. You’re the people we’re gonna refer people to.

[00:15:15] You’re the people we’re gonna connect together, you’re a part of it, right? And then on down the line, I’ll reach out to friends, families, acquaintances, I’ll send thank yous, I’ll send encouragement, and that’s how I spend the first hour of my day. That one hour is what’s built everything we’ve ever done.

[00:15:29] So if you’re a part of a community and you get, you know, a message out of nowhere from, from the leader of the community, or you get a connection or a shout out, I can tell you I’ve left community simply because I’ve never heard from the people that run it.

[00:15:43] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:15:44] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:15:44] Vincent Pugliese: would’ve stayed if I would’ve just gotten one message a year that was personal,

[00:15:48] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:15:49] Vincent Pugliese: right?

[00:15:50] So our engagement is high, and our turnover is incredibly low simply because we care about the people. And it doesn’t mean we spend 40 hours a week going nuts on it. It doesn’t require that much to care. So that, that’s the first thing we do. But it’s a cornerstone of what we do. They’re the most, they’re the people that allowed me to live the life that I get to live.

[00:16:13] And by honoring them and overdelivering for them, guess what also happens? They not only they stay, but they tell their friends. And if you wanna build a business that is gonna thrive, you want people that stay and then tell their friends. It doesn’t, it’s not that it’s more complicated, but it’s not that much more complicated than that.

[00:16:29] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:16:29] Conor Brown: Jeff, quick, quick shout out. Uh, Jesse Cole, Savannah Bananas. he was just on 60 Minutes. They did a whole thing on it. I watched it after, I was watching Rory McElroy win the Masters,

[00:16:41] and I was

[00:16:41] wiping away my, my tears as he won. It went right into that. It’s a great like 11 minute thing. You can look it up on YouTube now.

[00:16:48] Definitely go and check that out after the show is over.

[00:16:51] Jeff Sieh: So the funny thing about Jesse Cole is I remember way back when I first started gonna social media marketing world. He would walk around and it was like, who’s this weird guy in this yellow suit? Because it wasn’t big then. It wasn’t, it was very, very small and he was trying to get off the ground and you saw how he continued to activate fans and, and everything.

[00:17:09] And also, Vincent, I want to give you a shout out because I have actually been in the recipient of your, you know, the first hour because you contact me and one of the things that stands out with Vincent, it’s never just a quick message like, Hey, I just wanna drop a line. It’s actually a voice message where he’s talking to you.

[00:17:24] And then, you know, most every time I’ll respond back with a voicemail. And so there’s that relationship that gets built just for that little extra step that you’ve done on a voice message, which most people don’t do. And it’s not that

[00:17:38] Vincent Pugliese: Which is not that hard. And there’s no expectations. That’s the other thing. People are like, how do I get more clients? I’m like, start a year ago. Really? you know, you can’t, but like, think about next year. The, the best thing you can do if you wanna start a community, honestly, is not worry about your community for a year.

[00:17:54] nobody wants to hear that. Nobody’s gonna do it, but the honest best advice is if you connect with your network and beyond for the next year, if you’re doing this, you’re reaching out to new people, you’re making new connections, you’re making, you’re connecting people together. You’re creating content, even if you don’t even know what your niche is, but you’re getting awareness of what you’re doing, and then a year from now you go, Hey, I’m starting something.

[00:18:14] I can guarantee you people are gonna be interested, people are gonna sign. But people generally do it when they need it, and now they have to push it. And, and if I could tell a real funny, embarrassing Jesse, Jesse Cole story, if you don’t mind.

[00:18:25] Jeff Sieh: Go ahead.

[00:18:26] Vincent Pugliese: 2016, 2017, I was in Dan Miller’s mastermind. And Jesse Yeah, I mean, amazing man who’s such a mentor to me.

[00:18:33] Jesse was a guest in the mastermind at one point, and I didn’t get it just like you, like you saw him in the, in the hallways, kinda like, well, who’s this guy with the yellow, yellow tux? And he was talking about it. And I was very cynical, which I can be, right? New York Italians can, can be that way sometimes.

[00:18:47] And I was, and so everybody’s all fawning over him and I was like. You know, what’s, what are you gonna do when the, when the yellow Tucks shtick runs out? Like, what, what are you gonna do? He goes, I’m gonna keep going. And he was really calm about, I, I believe in, I’m gonna keep going. I was, I remember thinking, yeah, whatever.

[00:19:02] Okay. I, I didn’t buy it at all to the point where about a half an hour later after everybody was still kind of ing and eyeing, and I was like, raise my hand again. I’m like, no, really, I did this. I was like, really? What are you gonna do? Like, this is gonna die out. It’s a fad. And I could see the other guys in the master.

[00:19:19] I’m like, will you shut up? Like, now I’m being annoying with it. And he, and he was like, no. And he gave me kind of the, the, and I was like, okay. And I, so the funny thing is, we both spoke at an event last year in Georgia and got to see him again. And I was like, I don’t if you, and, and he laughed. He goes, I didn’t take any offense by it.

[00:19:36] But the funny thing is, Jesse was the keynote speaker probably making about 50 grand from that speech. I was one of the breakout speakers making nothing. Who won? He won. Right. So embarrassing story that, that I, I, I love to tell now because I didn’t understand and he had a vision, and just like everybody starting, people are not gonna believe in you, but if you keep going with what you believe in, that’s what happens.

[00:20:00] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And never judge somebody. ’cause I have gotten burnt by that before. A, uh, similar story as I did a, I think it was at like podcast movement or podcast, and I was on a panel and, and it was great. I had Lou Ello on there and all this stuff. He was getting inducted to the podcasting Hall of fame. And so this guy comes up to me and there was a thing I said about asking questions and writing them out before a show.

[00:20:20] And a lot of people didn’t agree with me. He did. I’m like, yeah, what I do is, and I was like giving him this guide advice. Turns out he was another recipient of the podcast hall of, I mean, he’s like, he’d been podcasting forever. And I’m just like, oh gosh, I’m such a goof. So you, you learn from those things, you know?

[00:20:37] We chalk it up. Yeah. You’re just like, okay. I just never judge anybody ever

[00:20:43] Vincent Pugliese: I just like to say bad choices, make great stories, and that’s a, that was a bad choice of mine. That just made a great story and, and,

[00:20:49] Jeff Sieh: we, and learning opportunity. I really wanna, we got, we’ve got some great comments already in the, from our community, which is, I love this, I love Fridays ’cause we have so many good people showing up. Paul Goer, who actually does the, um, mastermind with me, he, he, it’s really small, but he says you should start a community first from the beginning, which I totally, agree with.

[00:21:07] And Paul’s actually built his community via email. So he’s done a really great job and they’re very active. but we have a question from Paul on this line about, you mentioned before, you know, the one year kind of roadmap you, your mind entrepreneurs that it takes a year to kinda lay that four foundations, which is character, curiosity, connection, and collaboration before like really going all in.

[00:21:28] But Ralph wants to ask, he goes, I agree. I’m thinking about starting a paid mastermind where I offer small business coaching. What would you suggest are the best steps to getting that started? So Ralph doesn’t need to do it right away. He’s not like he’s doing fine as his business. And you mentioned this kind of year plan, so what is his next steps when he’s, he’s thinking about it.

[00:21:48] He’s ready to kind of bite the bullet.

[00:21:50] Vincent Pugliese: Yeah, for me it’s, it’s, it comes down to market research, which so many entrepreneurs don’t wanna do. Like, I, I, I’ll say it this way, Paul, like my greatest fear in business is public humiliation. I don’t know about you, but it’s mine. Where, you know, that social media post that goes out that, Hey, I’m starting to mastermind who wants to join?

[00:22:09] And then my mom comments and goes, congratulations, sweetie. You know, and my aunt gives a thumbs up. And two other people are like, I was in a mastermind once and it was awful. And then you go, where? And then there’s five comments and nobody cares. And then everybody watching goes, well, that doesn’t look like it’s any good.

[00:22:24] Right? What I do is tons of market research beforehand. And I give the example of a, a supermarket that that opened up across the street from, from us across. And I watched it. I was, I was just think of it this way, in terms of business, it was just land. It was just dirt. And as we moved in, we’re watching it grow.

[00:22:43] And I’m like, the day it opened, my kids wanted to be the first ones in the store. They wanted to say they were the first ones. So we got up at like six 30. We got there and there’s the door open, like Nolan cut in and got his elbow in front and was the first one to ever go into the pub. And we had the video, we did, we did a slow motion replay on social media.

[00:23:00] It was hysterical. He got his elbow across the line first and he won. but when I went inside, the thing I thought about was, and I have a meaning for this story, was I looked around like, there’s tens of thousand do of dollars worth of perishable items in the store that if they don’t sell it, it’s going to go bad.

[00:23:14] And they’re gonna, they’re not gonna stay in business. How did they know? How did they know that when they opened those doors? ’cause this is real, this is not like, oh, I, you know, got a couple people into a, a group. They knew because they did a ton of market research. They researched the neighborhood, they saw the street, the traffic, the income of the area, this, and when they opened, they thrived right away.

[00:23:35] That’s what I do. I have, and this is just me. I have a hundred conversations before launch, anything. The Unconference was the same, the membership was the same, A mastermind. I wouldn’t do that many. I wouldn’t need that many, but I wanna know what the problems are. I wanna know how interesting it sounds. I want to know the disagreements.

[00:23:53] I want them to shoot holes in my theory. Why? Because when they go, well, that doesn’t make Sieh, or, it sounds good, but I couldn’t make the time of it. Well, when you know, okay, well we have replays and we do this, and we do that, when you know every objection, and you could even put it into your copy on your website, your landing page, your social media, when you can tell their objection before they could say it to you, they go, this person’s thinking quicker than I am.

[00:24:16] I might wanna be around them. So every single time we do it. We do a good amount of market research. Our membership too, I did a hundred market research calls to find out all of our copy on our site came from. Those conversations didn’t come from this. It came from the conversations. 60 of the people that I did market research calls with to not sell them anything, to just get information, wind up joining the membership without a pitch.

[00:24:41] They wound up saying to me, Hey, okay, that sounds really good. Can I join that? I’m like, sure, this is not the purpose of this because that will come later for me. But the amount of people that wanna just start without doing market. Like who? Who? I’m sorry, who’s the question by Was that? Who asked that question?

[00:24:58] Jeff Sieh: this is Ralph. Yeah,

[00:24:59] Vincent Pugliese: Ralph? I would line up 20 people or 25 people that you’re thinking could be really good fits, and I would have a conversation with them about what you’re doing, what they need, what their struggles are, answer their questions. Show them that you’re a good coach. Before they even pay you a dime. ’cause if I, when I got on those calls, I would coach for 20 minutes.

[00:25:19] I would ask him questions, I would solve problems. I, interesting story, one of the guys, I reached out to him like, Hey, asking how it’s going? And he goes, yeah, you know, it’s funny ’cause I’m, I’m, I’m, everything’s going good, but I’m struggling. I, I have a lot of service based income, but I have no recurring revenue.

[00:25:34] This is what he said to me without even knowing what we’re talking about. I have no recurring revenue. I need to find a way to do that. And I gave some tips and then I said, oh, but so the reason why I was asking for the conversation, I wanna get your feedback on something we’re building and it’s membership freedom about recurring revenue.

[00:25:50] He, he’s like, here’s my credit card because the, the market research and the coaching beforehand and the conversations led to the trust. So that’s where I would go. The bigger it is, the more I would do, but market research in personal, and, and I don’t mean a survey on social media, I don’t mean a survey through your email list.

[00:26:09] I mean, real. It’s the number one thing, but people want people avoid it because it just seems like it’s too much. But it’s our secret sauce is why people go, how’s everything work? Because I, we do that foundational work beforehand.

[00:26:22] Conor Brown: Yeah,

[00:26:23] I think we should get, this question from tech troublemaker. ’cause I think it goes into a lot of stuff. and he asks, how do you ensure you are giving value? It almost feels like I am charging my friends to join. Kind of like, mom commenting, I’m so proud of you. Or Aunt, gimme a thumbs up. And then he usually gives his super fans free.

[00:26:42] Memberships, which is interesting, but what do you say to that? How, how do you lead with value and ensure that it’s not just, you know, your friends that are signing up, that are, that are, you’re charging them for

[00:26:55] Vincent Pugliese: yeah. Which I think a lot of people struggle with, and I did for a while too, in terms of like, are you paying to be my friend?

[00:27:02] Like it. Right? And, and, and that’s, and that’s, I think there’s an imposter syndrome that comes with it in the beginning with that, which is absolutely accurate. And, and, and people feel it.

[00:27:11] The more that you develop the roadmap that you’re gonna bring people on, meaning, like one of the best memberships ever. I’ll give you an example, was my son in TaeKwonDo in karate. And so I’m a membership teacher, right? And I’m not seeing what’s happening as he’s going from white belt to, you know, the, the, the later belts, the red belt.

[00:27:31] And one day I sat to his sensei, I’m like, oh. I said, you got me? And he goes, what do you mean? I laughed? I said, and he laughed at it. I said, I said, your roadmap. I can’t cancel. I can’t quit. Like,

[00:27:43] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:27:44] Vincent Pugliese: there, there is a path that you’re taking him on and the best line ever, once you become a black belt, now you’re a beginner.

[00:27:52] Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

[00:27:53] Vincent Pugliese: One of the best sales lines ever. You’re gonna pay all those months to get to black belt and now you’re just starting. Right? I didn’t think it was manipulative at all. It was true. Now you’re gonna go to second degree. To have a forever challenge for your people to get to will make you feel like you’re not just charging friends, right?

[00:28:12] It will not make you feel like, Hey, what value am I bringing? I, we have a roadmap and, and so I’m a sports guy. I was a sports photographer for 20 something years. We teach something called the Stadium. It’s my next book. Sports has the greatest business model that nobody talks about.

[00:28:26] Conor Brown: Yep.

[00:28:26] Vincent Pugliese: It is one game in one stadium that has multiple tiers of income all around the same game.

[00:28:31] They’re not playing, they’re not doing multiple businesses, but anything they do, they give content away for free. You can listen to the game on the radio or television or watch on tv, but if you wanna have access to them. You need to pay to get into the stadium. Right now, you can buy cheap seats, but they also have luxury box and everything in between, and they have a concourse for products, right?

[00:28:53] It’s not a funnel. They’re not funneling you from the $7 seats to the third $3,000 VIP things. You go where you belong, right? What an amazing business model, right? That we do it. So that’s what we do. We create tons of content that attracts the right people. We have those and we have levels for them to join.

[00:29:13] But that it’s, it’s a business model that has, so when we teach people that where you can build a stadium with multiple full-time income streams within it, around one idea, guess what? Almost every one of them says, I’m not even close to that. I need to learn this so I can get there. It’s the same thing as the black belt.

[00:29:33] You have to have a path that you’re taking them on, as opposed to it’s just a bunch of friends hanging out talking about business. Because that’s what, what people don’t talk about is, yeah, I got 53 people into my membership. What they don’t talk about is three months later, 33 of them have left,

[00:29:47] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:29:48] Vincent Pugliese: right Retention, not just retention for you, but success for them.

[00:29:53] Because the more success they have, the more they’re gonna tell people about what you’re doing, which brings more people on. So I, I think, you know, to the question, what’s the path that you’re taking them on? Like you, and, and that’s where the market research comes on when you know, Hey, we’re starting here, but here’s where we’re going and here’s steps to go when we’re gonna teach.

[00:30:11] Along that way, people really appreciate the guidance for that.

[00:30:16] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it’s really interesting that how you, started, that’s what like Paul and I started because we were like, okay, we do this mastermind, but we wanna teach people the things that we wish we would’ve done when we first started. And so that’s kind of been our path throughout the, the whole process is like, man, I wish I would’ve done this earlier and let us help you do that to get a jumpstart on, on your trajectory.

[00:30:36] So yeah, it’s very, very cool.

[00:30:38] Conor Brown: I, I kind of wanna go back to, to the importance of, of retention, right? And it’s one thing to build something and welcome people in, but if, if it’s a recurring revenue year after, then you have to ensure that they’re gonna stick around to give you the recurring payment. there’s two things to that. I think there’s one, giving them enough value, like you said, Vincent, to, to where they’re succeeding and they’re telling other people and they’re staying in the group.

[00:31:01] But then there’s also this thing of, I’m joining a community. I’m joining a membership because I want to be around other people in this situation. I think we often look at these communities and we see the bigger, the better, right? If there’s a 10,000 people, that must mean it’s really, really good when oftentimes it means you’re entering a big ocean and you’re a small fish, and, and it’s hard to make an impact or it’s hard to be heard.

[00:31:28] Loneliness inside large groups, I think is a real concern about people leaving too. Right? They just feel like, well, what’s the point? What am I paying for? I’m, I’m just an, an observer here. Right? I’m, I’m not getting anything.

[00:31:42] Vincent Pugliese: don’t feel heard. They don’t feel heard.

[00:31:44] Conor Brown: don’t feel heard. So, so what are some ways to, to prevent that from, to prevent members in your group from drifting into this connected loneliness sort of thing?

[00:31:55] Vincent Pugliese: Well, I think as a leader to not worry about going big, and that’s, you know, again, the opposite of what everybody’s gonna tell you. I’ll give you, I’ll give you the story. Like, I’ll ask people, you know, what’s, what’s an amount of money? That if you had recurring revenue every month predictable, that would make you feel free.

[00:32:12] Meaning your bills are paid and there’s 25% extra. Right? Your lifestyle’s paid in this 20. And generally, you know, generally people say the bills and expenses around six, seven grand. So if it’s 10 grand a month, you know the extra, I feel great. You know? And now it doesn’t take that much time and you can build other stuff on top of it.

[00:32:30] Build other levels. Well, last time I did math and I’ve never been a math major. 10, a hundred people at a hundred dollars is 10,000 a month,

[00:32:38] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:32:38] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:32:39] Vincent Pugliese: Is that a giant, huge community? No, not at all. But it gets your basic income needs covered if you don’t have huge expenses, and now you can create a mastermind off of that if you want.

[00:32:52] You can create a live event off. We have tears now. We have a content level that you’re not even in the community. You could just watch the replays of the calls. Right. Then we have a community level, then we have a community plus level that comes with voice coaching with me. And then we have levels of that knowing we have the live, it’s all built around that one group with 170 something members that I do one call a week with.

[00:33:13] And I have zero interest in making it a 10,000 person group because, like you said, Connor, it would lose so much of that. What I would rather do is create levels that, that help people in different ways. ’cause not everybody wants that. And we’ve all been in those large groups and we’re like, I don’t want the only, I, I’ve heard this said a million times, if, if, you know, I would cancel if they didn’t know that I was gonna cancel. Like, they’d like the person, but they’re like, I would get out of it if they didn’t know that I would like, you don’t want to be in that spot. And, and that’s, that’s kind of what happened. So people just kinda linger around. I wouldn’t worry about the, the size of it. I would worry about, as Seth Godin would say, do the best you can for the smallest amount possible.

[00:33:49] Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

[00:33:50] Vincent Pugliese: And that, and, and it gets rid of all this. You know what, what kills people is the whole, there’s a trend of I wanna help a million people. Everybody says that I don’t care about helping a million people. I wanna help these a hundred people. I wanna help these 200 people. ’cause I know them and I know, I know what their problems are.

[00:34:06] And I think the online world we’ve went from 20 years ago where nobody made money doing this to where we’re following billionaires and we need to follow billionaire strategies. they wouldn’t build it this way in the start, they all talk about all this, all this stuff you gotta do. And then all of a sudden I’ll ask them, what would you do in the very beginning?

[00:34:20] How did you start? Oh, door to door knocking, knocking on doors, helping one person like then don’t advise them to do something you’ve done. When you have affiliate relationships with other multimillionaires that could just promote your product, it’s not the same world. And they’re all, a lot of ’em are being fooled.

[00:34:36] Conor Brown: Yeah,

[00:34:37] Jeff Sieh: I totally agree. ’cause even if they give you strategies on, like, let’s say a YouTuber’s like, this is how I got, you know, my, my silver play button. Well, they’ve been doing it for five years and YouTube has changed in five years. Right? Like, it’s different. It’s different than what it is. So you can get some best practices.

[00:34:53] And I’m not saying those guys are trying, all trying to deceive you. There’s some best practices you can do, but it’s not the same thing. And so everybody’s path is different. And I love what you’re saying, Vincent. ’cause I am, I’m all on board about this. One thing I forgot to do, ’cause I was so excited Vincent was here at the very beginning, is I didn’t mention our sponsor Ecamm.

[00:35:11] We talked about great communities. They have an amazing community over on Facebook and on Discord. I was a big fan, even before they sponsored the show, but I’m very appreciative that they sponsored this. You find out more about them at Ecamm dot com slash jeff use code Jeff 15. You’ll say 15% on your first purchase.

[00:35:26] But once again, even if you don’t go to Ecamm dot com slash jeff, go there and check out the community ’cause they’re so awesome. Katie, doc Rock, all the team over there is, an awesome and that’s what we’re using to produce this show with. So thank you for them for their support. really quickly I want to go into, building, we’ve talked kind of around it a little bit and you mentioned it, but this is, I think what changed my whole business model and helped me become more successful is building multiple income streams.

[00:35:53] And especially for you around this membership. So you talked about the, you know, like the indispensable entrepreneur. and on your blog you say diverse income streams give you, give creators fluidity and options. So how do you decide, and you mentioned these parallel offers, your courses, coaching, live events, et cetera.

[00:36:11] how do they compliment membership without cannibalizing it? Like you’re not pulling people from the wrong spot or before they’re ready, all that kind of stuff. So what do you say about that, Vincent?

[00:36:21] Vincent Pugliese: Well, what I’ve learned is if when you have an idea of what you’re doing and how you’re leading, and you have the type of person you’re talking to, not everybody wants the same thing. And this is what we deal with. People that are building their membership, they’re like, oh, they’re not interested in that.

[00:36:33] I. And, and, and I get it. Not everybody wants a community. I love it. Right. But there’s sometimes like, I want something a little quicker. Sometimes I need more access, right? Sometimes I, you know, I don’t have time to get on a call, but I would, I would consume the content. The, the problem is people will try to build different businesses about all those different things, different brands.

[00:36:55] And it’s like, you work in the sports analogy, it’s having little fields all over the place. You gotta go tend to that field. Then you gotta go drive, you know, four hours to that field and 10 and, and there’s all these little audiences. My whole thing is take one idea that you are really good at, that you like to talk about, and then build a level to it.

[00:37:13] It could be community, it could be coaching. A lot of memberships start with coaching. They do, they start with one-on-one coaching that you get so good at. You go, I keep answering the same question for 10 people or for 20 people. And then you go, and this would start with us. We were coaching photography.

[00:37:29] That’s how we started the business of photography. And I was doing one-to-one, and then it was a six o’clock call and the person canceled last second and I missed dinner with my kids. And I’m like, kinda like, this is, this is stressing me out. It’s overwhelming. And then I got too many people and I was making good money, but my schedule was awful.

[00:37:44] Jeff Sieh: right.

[00:37:45] Vincent Pugliese: And then I realized I keep answering the same questions. What if I put 20 people into a group where I could answer their questions in there? They pay less money, but I get recurring revenue. And then all of a sudden my 20 to 30 hours a week went to one to two hours a week.

[00:37:58] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:37:59] Vincent Pugliese: What it allows you to do is now you have this base level for community, but now your coaching becomes more valuable, right?

[00:38:06] Coming down the field to levels. Okay. If you want access here. Now, it’s not my only price option. I’m making good money with the community. I can now charge a higher price for access to me or a lower price to content access that you don’t get with the community. And then you start, once you start building from there.

[00:38:23] So I’ve just been studying this like crazy, the sports part. I’m a Mets fan, right? I’m a long suffering New York Mets fan. What I learned was when the Mets started in 1962, they had two ticket prices. What else were they gonna do? It was $3 and 50 cents, or $2 and 50 cents. That’s all it was. They didn’t have any complexity to their, to their business.

[00:38:41] The New York Mets, as of two years ago, had 54 different ticket options around the same game. ’cause they, some people wanna sit in the upper level in the shade with all you can eat hotdog, and some people don’t want that. The more you build, the more you realize certain people want different things. And it doesn’t mean you’re starting a whole new business.

[00:38:58] It means you’re just creating a different level of access. So even with our five levels, it still only takes me a couple hours a week because everything I, anything I do. Helps everything I do, and this is where I think everybody gets this wrong. Like if I have a conversation with somebody and I go on a podcast, people can just start consuming my free content and never buy anything ’cause they don’t trust me yet.

[00:39:21] The reason why people don’t buy from you is generally they don’t trust you yet. And it’s just the truth. They’re not ready to believe that you’re the one that has the answer. So they can follow along on my free content. Just like a team, just like a fan would, listening to a game in the radio for two years, then they hear ’em win the championship and they go, that sounds pretty cool.

[00:39:36] I wanna go to a game. Okay, but I don’t wanna spend a whole lot of money, so I’ll buy the cheap seats. Oh, but then down below they’re catching foul balls. Ooh, that’s kind of cool. It’s a little bit more money. Oh, even below that they’re getting autographs. Oh, over there they’re in the luxury box talking to business owners and making deals while they’re, you realize you build it all out.

[00:39:57] So that, that was the whole idea for us is I take one idea. I. Become the best that we can be at it, and then create levels from that as opposed to starting five or six different types of business for different multiple income streams. I want multiple income streams around one idea.

[00:40:12] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. That is gold.

[00:40:14] Conor Brown: so interesting. And, and I think for people starting out, you know, you, you said it best, Vincent, when you’re like, they’re unsure, they’re not willing to buy from you. Right. From the get, they have to understand who you are and, and what you’re about and what you provide for someone just starting from scratch when it comes to these layers right.

[00:40:32] And sequencing them out. Do you recommend starting in a, in a certain place and, and working backwards? I, I would think, you know, the easiest thing that you might think is, let’s just start with the lowest price point, right? And then scale up from there. But I also might think, well, maybe what if you started in the middle?

[00:40:50] And then said, oh, by the way, we also have this cheaper option. Or you start at the very top and say, we also have two, two down below. So someone who hasn’t built out any of this is, is there a right or wrong spot to start in when it comes to offering these levels?

[00:41:07] Vincent Pugliese: Well, I’m certainly not a lawyer, but I’m gonna act like one for a minute and I’m gonna give you a lawyerly answer, which is, it depends. That’s what every lawyer will tell you in every situation. It really depends. I started with a mastermind. Which was a little bit higher priced and then built lower tiers from it and then higher tiers above it.

[00:41:23] Over time. Some, like we have some people that start with a very low price membership because they want momentum and people aren’t willing to pay. You know, if you know Liz Wilcox, she hasn’t even deviated. She’s got 4,500 people in a $9 membership, and I don’t think she has any interest in building a stadium.

[00:41:39] She’s got one level. She gave the we, I saw her last week at an event. She gave the best line, which is, doesn’t fit along with what we teach, but it was funny. She said she understood the recurring revenue model, the membership model, and she said, what can I give for $9? That you give me $9, I give you something great and then you just get the F away from me.

[00:41:59] That’s the way she said it

[00:42:00] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:42:01] Vincent Pugliese: and, and it was hysterical because that was her way of doing it. But what did she have? She had the recurring revenue that gave her the freedom. The answer is, it depends. I, the worst thing I can do is say, this is the way you should. Jeff’s life is different than Connor’s life, which is different than my life.

[00:42:18] And your experience and your connections are different. You might have a lot of people in a high-end space that would be willing to pay you a thousand dollars a month for a mastermind. You might, but they wouldn’t join a $50 membership because it’s just doesn’t seem like it would be valuable. But you might have 300 people that would pay $50 a month to be a, have access to your community or even 30, whatever it is, and then you teach it out where the more access they get to you, you can create levels higher.

[00:42:46] Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

[00:42:46] Vincent Pugliese: So it it, the answer is, it depends. There’s a lot of great conversations around and a lot of great successes, but it just depends.

[00:42:52] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Liz is, Liz is great, and she does have an amazing model. I’ve known Liz forever, and, uh, yeah, she’s, she’s still rocking it. I wanna talk a little bit, really, as we, man, this is flying by Vincent, you’re, you’re dropping so many great, ideas and, and, and knowledge here. But you mentioned in your book collaborative monetization, which I really love.

[00:43:11] I I’m a big fan of working with people like Paul and I have this mastermind, but you, you say it’s like the ultimate multiplier. Can you maybe share a recent example where partnering with another creator unlocked a whole new, you know, brand new revenue Restream for both of you? Or, or maybe somebody in your membership that, you know, this story, I’d love to have like a real tactical, practical example.

[00:43:31] Vincent Pugliese: Can I give you how it started for

[00:43:33] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’d be great.

[00:43:34] Vincent Pugliese: so when it started for me, I was a, just so you know, this is where relationships come in. And I’m not always a fan of partnerships. I’ll be honest. Like my dad had a partnership and, and ruined, almost ruined our life when they walked away with $135,000 when I was 15 years old.

[00:43:49] Right? Part it, it’s the Dave Ramsey line. The only ship that doesn’t sail is a, is a partnership. Right? And, and so I’m, I’m not, I’m not talking partnerships, but I’m talking collaborations. And when I first started, this is where the network comes in. I was in a mastermind and I was a photographer and I had no online income streams at all.

[00:44:07] This was about 10 years ago. but we’re very successful with our business. So we’ve been doing it for a while, but I wanted to get into this space 10 or 11 years ago, and I joined a mastermind. We had a live event. It was a guy there named Kyle Schultz, and we all kind of introduced ourself and he explained that he has a thing called, he has a photo school and it’s a membership and it’s $12 a month or $10 a month.

[00:44:28] He’s got a thousand members in it. And I was like. What, like, is that what, like he gets on for one call a week and there’s, he’s making 10, 12, $14,000 a month in recurring revenue. And if eight people leave, he just does something else and gets 14 people back into it. And I’m like, so I’m like, I gotta know this guy.

[00:44:46] Right? Not knowing that he went to meet me, and I didn’t know this because I was a sports photographer for 20 years and shooting the Stanley Cup in the World Series in the Super Bowl, and I had just done Muhammad Ali’s birthday party in, in Arizona, and we got flown out there for that. And so he gives his thing, I give mine, I turned to him bold.

[00:45:04] This is another part of business that you gotta do and you gotta make the introductions. And I looked at him and I said, I have an idea. It was the first words I ever said to him, I have an idea. And he said, yes. And I was like, you don’t even know what I’m to say. And he said, go ahead and tell me now.

[00:45:19] Other people are now listening to this. And I said, you, you’ve got, you know, Schultz photo school and you teach parents how to take better pictures of their kids. That’s what his membership was, right? Because his parents’ are not gonna spend a hundred dollars a month on that membership, but they’ll spend 10.

[00:45:33] It’s kind of a hobby thing. So I said, you and I should, ’cause he did courses as well and he was just in the book StoryBrand by Donald Miller. He was an example of success story. He had a three day launch that made $103,000 or whatever it was. And I said, you and I should do combined and do a course for your students on how to take better sports photos of their kids, which is different than regular photos.

[00:45:54] Now, Kyle was not a sports photographer. He saw me shooting everything and traveling the country doing it. So that’s why he said yes. He goes, I was already thinking that. So I turned out that he actually went to that. He wasn’t gonna go to that retreat. He went ’cause he wanted to meet me, which I had no idea.

[00:46:08] So we collaborated and we went and we wrote a course, which I knew nothing about, and I had no audience. Here’s the other thing, I had zero audience, no online anything. He had the audience, I had the skillset. We combined, he interviewed me, we wrote out the course, we put that course out the, the course made.

[00:46:26] More money in the first day than I made in a full year as a newspaper sports photographer. And then doubled that within by the end of the week. And then I realized then like these were like, look how fast it sped up my journey. And then because of that, that’s how I met Dan Miller. That’s how I really connected with Dan Miller.

[00:46:45] He loved that story so much. He would talk about me on his podcast all the time, which led to 10 other people hearing about me because of that. And then the boldness of it, like you gotta ask when you build relationships. Seth Godin was one of those that I loved, Seth Godin and I went to one of his live events and I introduced myself and, and formed a relationship.

[00:47:03] I paid the money to get in, right. And then I finally reached out to get his endorsement on my first book and another collaboration. That was a big ask. ’cause he doesn’t really, it was hard to get an endorsement. The funny thing is, I reached out to a few other people about endorsements. John John Miller from QBQ is one of them.

[00:47:21] And John calls me and he goes, Vince, he goes, this book’s 220 pages. Nobody’s ever gonna read it. I, I can’t endorse it. And, and I said, well, Seth Godin just endorsed it. And he goes, all right, I’ll do it

[00:47:32] Jeff Sieh: Yeah,

[00:47:33] Vincent Pugliese: just like that,

[00:47:34] Jeff Sieh: yeah.

[00:47:34] Vincent Pugliese: right? You get Seth, you get John, you got John Rule, and I got John Lee. And all of a sudden, because of those collaborative relationships, I’m being interviewed on all these podcasts, but same book, it was the same exact book before.

[00:47:47] All those endorsements that people were like, eh, but having those collaborations in those relationships that were built, you know, there was one guy that led a huge mastermind that never, I reached out to him like Hour of Giving and he never got back to me. And then literally I posted about Seth and he goes, how in the world did you get Seth to endorse your book?

[00:48:03] He goes, will you come speak to my mastermind? And I was like, yeah, now you wanna talk to me. Now you like me because of that. That’s what happens in this world. Not that it’s great, but

[00:48:11] Jeff Sieh: Right. Mm-hmm.

[00:48:14] Conor Brown: You know, so often we build a membership because we believe we have expertise that no one else has and that we can share it and teach and, and foster community and help people,learn from what we know, right? You talk a lot Vincent about exit ready memberships, though. Not just, you know, building something that is only being successful because of you and people gravitating towards you, but something that’s being built that eventually you could sell if you would ever want to do that For you, what are the financial and the operational things that make a membership truly sellable versus it just being an owner dependent?

[00:49:02] The only way this is gonna work is if this owner stays on for,

[00:49:05] Vincent Pugliese: There’s really good and there’s really bad when it comes to it. Meaning memberships and recurring revenue are one of the most sellable businesses you can get. If you read the book Built To Sell, they’ll go through and like, oh my goodness. The recurring re like when there’s recurring revenue models, they that, that’s, you think about, you know, phone companies, I think they have the top one because they’re recurring revenue models.

[00:49:27] Is, is, is ironclad. It’s once you sign up for it, you’re in, it’s a recurring revenue model, right. As our memberships, the problem with memberships with selling them is it’s generally built around you.

[00:49:38] Conor Brown: Mm-hmm.

[00:49:39] Vincent Pugliese: every, like, everything we’re talking about is personal. It’s really difficult for me to sell my membership, even though that’s a path that could be done because it’s built around my vision, my relationships, and I would have to, if I’m gonna do that, which I’m not, I love what I do.

[00:49:56] I’m not interested, but it is, it’s a model to do. But I would need to have a sales team that can close the way that I can close or anywhere near it for it to become even a sellable. Membership model. That’s just the truth. Like, and I thought I was going down that path, but I just love what I do. So I, I don’t have a sellable membership at this moment.

[00:50:17] I just don’t. And it’s just, I can make it that, because all I would need to do is bring in the sale, not all, and it’s not that easy. But I would’ve to bring, I would have to bring in that sales team that would replicate what I’m able to do, which is which, once we started going down that path, I’m like, this feels like a job.

[00:50:33] I’m gonna be, be honest. It feel like it, it felt like I wasn’t doing the work that I like to be doing. And I like a freedom lifestyle and I love the people we work with. So there, there are, we’ve seen people make really successful exits from memberships, but they’ve shifted the path from it’s, as we all know, it’s personal in the beginning.

[00:50:51] it’s really difficult, especially this day and age to build it not that way, but you’re gonna have to make that shift. The problem is with that, and I’m just pointing out the problems. I’ve seen people do this, they make that shift and all of a sudden it’s not about them anymore. And people go, I joined because of him or her, and now he’s not in charge anymore and I don’t even like the community anymore.

[00:51:11] So there’s a lot of, you know, pitfalls in it. And it’s something that is obviously a part of the business model, but it’s something that we’re not pursuing just ’cause I just like the work that I do and I don’t wanna change that.

[00:51:23] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think a good example maybe of that is Jay Klaus, who, pat Flynn actually bought his, from him, his network, and, and then Pat’s taken it over and it’s great. But then Jay has had his own one that I’m a part of. That’s really, really good. So I, I, I think if you wanna look at a good model of somebody who’s transitioned well, it’s like Jay Klaus and Pat Flynn, that whole thing, how that worked together.

[00:51:46] I wanna go now ’cause man, this is Flun by. Um, but I want to talk about your, your unconference, the unconference for entrepreneurs, which you and I talked about. You had the first one last year. and I think it’s really cool because of this, the hallway track philosophy that you have in it, and you designed the unconference.

[00:52:02] So the hallway, in quotes is the conference. So what sparked that idea to remove like keynotes and sponsors and. And how has that choice changed? And I know you’re doing, it was successful ’cause you’re doing another one, coming up. So talk about that a little bit.

[00:52:17] Vincent Pugliese: It was sparked by anger is the best way I could say it. It was sparked by going to these events and meeting all these people like you guys, right? And we haven’t met in person, but you know, I, I, it’s amazing that we haven’t yet, but going, but Covid really threw a monkey wrench into the live events for a couple years.

[00:52:33] but going to these events, meeting the most incredible people in the world, people that became close friends, people that I would, I was closer to than people in my own neighborhood. Because we had so much more in common. But yet being pulled to speaker after speaker, after breakout, after keynote, after this, after that.

[00:52:50] And then, oh, by the way, yeah, networking connection’s important. So go to the bar tonight at 11 o’clock with the dj, blast in loud music and talk to people then.

[00:52:59] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I hate it.

[00:53:00] Vincent Pugliese: Like who the heck thought of that? Like that’s the dumbest idea in the world. What’s your name? Like I went to one a couple weeks ago and the next morning I called my wife and she’s like, what’s wrong?

[00:53:08] I’m like, you sick? I’m like, no. I was at the VIP thing for two hours and I was screaming in people’s ears ’cause we couldn’t hear each other. And now I don’t have a voice anymore. Like, who comes up with this? So I, so I would go to these events and I’d just always talk about, and unconference and they’re like, what’s that?

[00:53:22] Like? It’s the opposite again, it’s the, there’s no keynotes, there’s no speakers, there’s no stages, no vendors, there’s no upsells, there’s no pitchmen, no hype men, there’s none of it. It is exactly what we do here in the hallways, but with structure to it and a plan to it. And every time I’d say it, people would be like, that’s awesome.

[00:53:40] ’cause you know anybody that’s been to more than two of these events. They know the hallways are the most valuable place I can listen. If I’m the speaker, you can listen to me on YouTube. You can, you don’t need to sit there and listen. And, and, and I’m not a student also. I’m not a traditional student.

[00:53:55] There’s no doubt I was not diagnosed. But there’s no doubt that I’m a DHD of some sort. Everybody thinks I have a bladder problem with these events. I just get, I keep getting up to leave

[00:54:03] Jeff Sieh: That’s great.

[00:54:04] Vincent Pugliese: to go to the bathroom. ’cause I just wanna talk to people in the hallways. I, you’re making me go to an event with all these great people and I gotta sit for two and a half days listening to the speakers like I’m in school again.

[00:54:12] I’m like, this is, it’s all to me. It’s disrespectful to the audience to me. Right? And then there’s a pitch that comes with it. So what if we just got rid of 90% of everything and then just brought the conversations and then facilitated, you know, table talks or conversation starters or spent your time introducing people that you need to meet with each other so that they can get the most valuable part, which is the relationships.

[00:54:36] And we created a program because I’d never seen anybody do this before, that had every attendee. With their pictures and a small bio and a link to their stuff. Because you leave these events and you have these business cards. Who’s, who’s Dave? I forget. Was he at the bar that night or was he in this? And you don’t remember anybody.

[00:54:52] So you get, you can leave and then methodically go through your program and connect with people. And then I saw the engagement from everybody there. Online increased, ’cause they’re all now interacting with each other. Business relationships have formed, in so many ways. Best story from it though. Ken Carfagno and John Sanders, two guys in our membership met there.

[00:55:11] They had not met before. Both of them actually, I don’t even know if you’re telling this story, but it’s too late. both of them have kids in their early twenties that have a hard time meeting each other. One lives in Pennsylvania, one lives in North Dakota. They were like, they should talk to each other.

[00:55:24] You know, his son and, and his daughter, and blah, blah, blah. And like, so I go to visit Ken last week on my trip and he’s like, why don’t you ask if you asked where Kenny is? I said, I said, no. He goes, he’s in. South Dakota visiting, and I’m like, how? How cool would it be like if a marriage came outta the unconference?

[00:55:40] Then eventually a kid, like the first Unconference kid came from the connection from within it. Like, so I’m really rooting for them. I’m rooting

[00:55:47] Jeff Sieh: cool. That is a great story. I wanna, so let’s, let’s talk about the upcoming conference because we got, we’re right at the end. Give us the dates if people are interested in, you know, having an application. ’cause that’s what the way you, you do it. How can they do that? What’s the best way to, to find out more about that?

[00:56:05] Vincent Pugliese: It’s February 2nd through the fourth of 2026 at the Embassy Suites in downtown Sarasota, Florida. ’cause we saw, no offense, God be like, we saw all the events in Orlando and I’m like. Kind of also tired of Orlando events,

[00:56:16] Conor Brown: Oh, I.

[00:56:18] Vincent Pugliese: Like everything. So we’re like, Sarasota will be a like right by the water. so it’s, it’s next year.

[00:56:22] It’s, it’s two and a half days there. And so we have an application for people. I talk to everybody personally that, that applies and make the determination. And also we want it to be where it’s not, you know, a hundred life coaches. We like variety in terms of the businesses, right? There’s, there’s, and the variety of people coming for next year is already surpassing last year, this year, which was great.

[00:56:42] So yeah, if anybody wants to, I, I’m happy to have a conversation. it’s, it’s, it’s the most exciting thing I’m building right now. ’cause that’s the thing with the stadium is I would get all a DHD where I’m like, I would build something and I would get bored with it and I would kill it.

[00:56:56] Conor Brown: Mm-hmm.

[00:56:56] Vincent Pugliese: I dunno if anybody can relate to that.

[00:56:58] It, it gets to the point where you think you’re gonna go blow it up and you go, I’m done. Right? I’ve done that so many times that the stadium for me, and this is the game changer, the walls of the stadium gives me, a boundary. To not leave,

[00:57:10] Jeff Sieh: that’s

[00:57:10] Vincent Pugliese: but, but the levels of the stadium gives me creativity, which is what I needed.

[00:57:15] Meaning, okay, the membership’s going great, coaching’s going good. I don’t want more coaching clients. We can keep building the membership. When I get to that point, I get kind of bored. it’s easy to be quite honest at that point. Now I need the next thing that I really can possibly fail at and the next level.

[00:57:31] So that’s where the unconference came. Okay. You know, you, this could be bad, this could be great, but I need the, the adrenaline rush of trying something new. So I just keep, so the latest thing we’re doing, and I, you know, this is interesting to you guys, is being that the stadium model, I travel around the country and I go to different games.

[00:57:48] I used to photograph ’em all. I was at a game last week with a friend and I was like, you know, that’s the next level we’re gonna create. Like, I can do a level where when I come to your town, we can go to a game together and I will be your coach for that night. You could ask me all the questions you want.

[00:58:02] We go to a game together. So that’s becoming my, my fantasy camp, my luxury box. It allows me the creativity to build the next thing off of the main thing.

[00:58:10] Jeff Sieh: I love that. That is so great. Well, Vincent, this has been a great, wow. I, I can’t wait to go back and, and chop this up ’cause there’s gonna be so many good golden nuggets out of this. ’cause I know this is what people are needing. but really quick, I’ve been bringing it up all this, all the time on, on screen, but, it’s my membership freedom.com for you guys listening on the podcast, my membership freedom.com.

[00:58:30] It’s Vincent, his last name is spelled P-U-G-L-I-E-S-E. Vincent, you got the floor right now. Is before we wrap up, anything you wanna say to all our viewers? the floor is yours.

[00:58:40] Vincent Pugliese: I just wanna say thank you for having me on. Like, this has been so much fun. You know, I’ve seen you, you know, from afar for a while. We’ve connected, I, you know, I remember the first time I watched one of your shows, I think it was Lauren Galio was on, and Lauren I, your friends. And so it’s kind of like, it’s just cool.

[00:58:53] I love this space where we get to do this and talk to your audience and hopefully I’m adding value to them. Hopefully this is helpful to them and honestly, and I mean this, if anybody wants to reach out, send me a, send me a message, send me a, a email. I believe the, the, the greatest thing you could do is have a one-on-one conversation, truly believe in it so that I build my schedule around it.

[00:59:13] So happy to chat with people.

[00:59:15] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And Vincent, he practices what he preaches. He does a, a great, great job With that, really quick, I wanna give a shout out to my friend and co-host Connor Brown. Connor Brown. What is going on in your neck of the woods and what you got for us?

[00:59:27] Conor Brown: So much going on. if you wanna plan a trip to anywhere in the world. Reach out to me, connor@vacationkingdoms.com, C-O-N-O-R. Follow me on Instagram too at Vacation Kingdoms. I just went to a brand new theme park. We were talking about this earlier on in the show. It was awesome. If you want to go to Epic Universe, let me know.

[00:59:46] Connor, C-O-N-O-R, at vacation kingdoms.com. What an awesome, awesome episode. It’s a good way to start a good Friday.

[00:59:55] Jeff Sieh: that’s right. And we’ve got great people like this is a, I mean, rich Graham says, what a great guest today. I could listen to Vincent read the phone book. Do they even have phone books anymore? I don’t even know.

[01:00:05] Vincent Pugliese: Don’t tell that to my wife. My wife does not need to hear that. That will annoy her. She’ll be like, yeah, don’t make him talk anymore than he has to.

[01:00:12] Jeff Sieh: And our friend Ryan. Yeah, Ryan Cole, stopped in. Thank you guys. You know Ralph George. Jim was in here, tech T maker. Thank you for all your questions and for hanging out with us for this past hour. Wouldn’t be able to do the show without you and we wouldn’t be able to do the show without our sponsors.

[01:00:25] Ecamm. To find out more about them, go to Ecamm dot com slash jeff. Save 15% on your first purchase by using the code, Jeff, 15. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye everybody. Thanks for watching.