SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Hello folks. Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff c and you’re not.

And this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more. But have you ever caught yourself wondering how some brands create communities that feel. More like a close-knit club in the comments. So you’re curious about moves that turn casual followers into loyal ambassadors.

Maybe you’re ready to transform your audience into a space where people feel welcomed, supported, and inspired to grow. If any of that is something that you would like to have, you are in the right place. ’cause today we’re welcoming Jason Goff. He’s a senior community and support specialist at Social Media Examiner.

He spent 15 plus years connecting thousands of marketers through events, memberships, and conversations that matter. Jason’s gonna share his journey, his hard one insights, and his favorite tactics for cultivating, thriving communities in an AI driven world. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live.

[00:01:00] Jason, how are you doing today, my friend?

Jason Goff: Doing great. How are you, Jeff?

Jeff Sieh: It’s been a frazzling. Yeah, it’s been. Thank you for being patient as I. It’s always a mad dash, and I haven’t had to do the crawling under the desk for a long time, but, uh, that is happening. That happened right before the show, but

was

Jason Goff: gonna say you wear it well.

Jeff Sieh: oh, yeah. So I usually have, I have a nicer shirt on. This is still t-shirts.

It was hot. I was th you know, I am not a calm, well, I am a calm, I, you know, I can handle myself in emergency, but when it’s like before a show, like I’m throwing stuff everywhere, unplugging things, which probably isn’t the best thing to do, but we got it working. That’s all that matters. But I wanna introduce you to Jason.

If you don’t know him very well. He is a seasoned community strategist with over a decade and a half of experience building authentic engaged communities. Both online and in person. As the senior community and support specialist at Social Media Examiner, he connects thousands of marketers through those events, uh, that they have memberships, which we’re gonna talk about and meaningful conversation.

And he really believes that community is all about [00:02:00] creating spaces where people feel seen, supported, and inspired to grow. And he really does bring a warm, grounded presence and a deep belief in the power of people coming together with purpose. And so, Jason, we’re gonna dive into it today because you know what, uh, is going on in the community.

I look up to you a lot when it comes to the way that you support Social Media Examiner, the other projects you’ve gotten going on. So this is gonna be a fun conversation.

Jason Goff: Yeah, let’s get into it.

Jeff Sieh: So first of all, I wanna do a big shout out to our friends over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at ecamm.com/jeff. You can save 15%.

Off your first purchase by using Code Jeff 15. They are what makes this show happen and they are actually the reason why even with all the headaches I was able to go live, uh, but a couple minutes late. But, they’re a great, uh, group of people over there. So mt.com/jeff, thank you to them for sponsoring the show.

But Jason, we’re gonna get right into this community thing that you speak of. And one of the things you’ve said, you know, social media isn’t just about publishing content anymore, but [00:03:00] conversations are where the magic happens. So I, I kind of want to start off because I think it’s gonna color a lot of our conversation about this AI on social media platforms.

you know, AI are tools you that lets you do all this stuff. differently, a little bit faster, but I wanna talk about it, how we approach it with community building and engagement with these kind of routine tasks that you as a manager might have to do. So talk about that a little bit. Are, are you using ai?

Are you, are you worried about it? I mean, we kind of talked offline a little bit about this, but I wanna know your thoughts.

Jason Goff: I’m i’m absolutely using ai, but will say that AI isn’t the end all. I think we get enamored with the tools and we forget,

Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

Jason Goff: well, why are we doing this? And so, you know, I was, I would say say before and as, as a foundation for anything, know your purpose and be aligned with that, and whatever projects you take on, see if if that aligns with the purpose. or, [00:04:00] you know, a foundation foundational purpose statement for me was, I want to see my friends win. And if aI can can help my friends win, then bring it on. the conversations that we have on social media are centered when it comes from me, is wanna see you win. So, if AI is gonna help you win, if it’s gonna help you brainstorm, if it’s gonna help you get your thoughts together, then it. But know that if you’re gonna copy and paste your heart behind, it is

Jeff Sieh: Mm.

Jason Goff: probably not to see others win. To see yourself get exposure. And while that’s not necessarily a bad thing, it comes through, so, know, the whole M dash thing, you know

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’s right.

Jason Goff: on LinkedIn and there’s M Dash this and M Dash that. It’s gotten to the point where the M dash is a distraction, so I don’t use it.

Jeff Sieh:Mm-hmm.[00:05:00]

Because

Jason Goff: of that. you know, I will die on the hill of an Oxford comma, but

Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

Jason Goff: I won’t comment necessarily about that. And if it became a distraction, then if it means taking me away from community for people to know that, Hey, I’m Jason and I care about you, and I wanna see you win, then. Be gone with you Oxford comma, if that’s a distraction for

Jeff Sieh: Right. That’s a good point. ’cause I know a lot of people are dying on the hill of like, listen, I’ve used them before. I don’t, I don’t care what, but you know, it’s the same way. I can’t easily, I used to use Delve or Dive and, you know, you can’t use those anymore because, uh, it was funny ’cause, you know, uh, Michael Stelsner had a post yesterday where he would, had did it and somebody even said like, Hey, I thought that was great until I got to that section where it sounded like AI and Mike came back and said, listen, I use AI to help clean up my thoughts, but it is me, and I think that’s the balance we’re gonna have to run.

Would you agree?

Jason Goff: Absolutely. And he’s, he’s a writer. Mm-hmm. So I would expect him to be using the M dash.

Jeff Sieh: [00:06:00] Right.

Jason Goff: I. I, yes, I’m a writer, but it’s more of a, from a stylistic, a visual

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Point of view. So if you see me using ellipsis or, broken sentences or, or whatever, then you know it’s from me.

Mm-hmm. If you see this shift that happened in what, November of, what was it? 2022.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: saw this shift in the way Jason communicates with you, chances are it’s because he started copying and pasting chat, GPT. Oh. So you don’t, you don’t want that, you want to interact with, well, I hope you’d want to interact with me, Jeff.

You may not want to all the time.

Jeff Sieh: I have no idea. I do.

Jason Goff: you wanna interact with me,

me, it

needs to look like it’s coming from me.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So what I have done, and, and by the way, you can also, I do have a newsletter and I use ai. On my, like the post that I sent out talking about this show. I do use it for that because it helps me organize stuff. It’s still, I change it up enough that I feel like it’s still me now, my Tuesday or Wednesday emails that I do during the week, that is mostly all me.

Now I do, you know, where do you draw the line at? At ai, because Grammarly, [00:07:00] for me, it’s, it’s still ai, but I still use it ’cause I horrible speller. You know, it helps me with some of those punctuation mistakes. So that is ai. So I guess I am technically still using ai, but it’s more of me sharing my thoughts.

Chris Stone, who watches quite a bit says, um, you know, he can tell it’s not AI because it’s so weird. So that’s, you know, that’s one thing that I got going for me. But, um, so on that kind of subjects, like using it as a tool but not having it change your voice, I think more and more as it comes out and becomes, you know, we don’t even think about using word processing anymore and we don’t even think about using spell check anymore, which is technically ai.

Are you gonna, are you think people are gonna really have to go back to really crafting, even though we kinda have an easy button now? Like what are your thoughts on, on how this develops and how we, how we can use it? Because we do wanna save time and some of us are horrible spellers. So where’s the line, I guess,

guess,

Jason Goff: right. Absolutely. Well, you know, I think back to the days when I was a kid, I listened to shortwave radio, I loved it. Like I would hear of these [00:08:00] broadcasts from around the world and that was, I mean, it was just the bomb diggity for me.

You know, i’d, i’d write the radio stations right, and they write me back and yeah, they were sending automated messages, you know, even back then they were using, you know, pre-formatted. Typed messages and so on, but it was still cool to get a correspondence from them.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: So that concept of automation and making things faster, it’s nothing new.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: It’s a question of are you meeting the expectation that people have from you? So Jeff, I expect. Really cool imagery coming from you and I see the images that you create using

Ai it’s like, well I know that’s Jeff. I know that he puts some creativity behind that.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: so i, i, there is that balance, but but do I like to receive a piece of mail every now and then from a brand that I may not expect it from? That’s really cool.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: It breaks, it, it’s [00:09:00] a little bit of a, a zag

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: is zing.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. We’ve got some of our friends, speaking of community, and I have the best community here on Fridays, so thank you guys for waiting for me today as we can. And so Ralph says, carpenter still use AI is a tool. I think, uh, it’s really cool. And then Kira says, it makes me think of the pay-per-click automated character in Word, way back in the day.

That’s right. There has been some form automation, I think is how we use it, the intention and whether or not, uh, we’re double checking what, yeah. Double checking what AI gives us. I think that’s a great point, Kira. and, and the AI stuff, I’m using images because I think it enhances, I’ve always loved imagery and tried to play with it and use different things.

but I think the, they’re still taking a step like.

W

And we’ve talked about it before, that I use, when I create the thumbnails for this, I get it as close as I can with Midjourney or Jett pt, and then I have to go in and do a face swap. So if you saw the, the thumbnail in the email today or over on YouTube that we use for Jason, that actually I made it as close as I could, but then I had to go in and craft it.

Yeah. I I had to fix your face a little bit. It, the funny [00:10:00] thing is, is it screwed up your teeth. Like it gave you a big snaggle tooth the first time I did it. So, I had to use like, Adobe’s generated a fill to fix your teeth. So I won’t charge you for that. Like a dentist would charge you a lot, but not me.

That’s, that’s on the house for being on the show.

Jason Goff: awesome. See, you’re showing you’re using AI to show that you care.

Jeff Sieh: That’s right. Exactly. and so yeah, so yes, Gary, as he goes, runs to add Jason to our mailing list. Yeah, he is somebody to follow. one of the things I wanted to ask you on, on LinkedIn, you posed the question of whether the term artificial intelligence might turn people off from using it.

And why do you think that, marketers or even like, and small businesses are, are scared and there we still have that dividing line. I feel like, like I’m not gonna use it at all. And then like, oh yeah, I’m using it for everything. Like, this isn’t even me talking kind of a thing.

So there’s a balance. how, how would you use AI in a community setting? Let’s say, you are in charge, like you are of a big community group. Would you use that to automate your, your processes, like following up with people? [00:11:00] How would you use AI in like the community aspect of things?

Jason Goff: Well, it’s all about connecting people with is important to them, right?

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Uh, so I happen to be talking to marketers,

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: they’re going to use the jargon of. Of, of the day, you know, just, just like when social media was first coming out, we were the ones calling it social media. Everyone else was calling it Facebook.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: at least from our generation. Right.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: younger generation might have been calling it, you know, Snapchat or, or whatever. But but for my community, yes, we do call it ai and we’re still trying to figure out this and how it works and am I gonna lose my job? And, and then for those of us who have been around for a while, we’ve seen things come and go. We’ve seen the of of new technology that actually makes us more efficient. you know, I was a travel agent. Yes, there are a few travel agents out there,

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: Still. It it changed. And [00:12:00] so if that causes my community to feel like, like, oh oh yes, we can connect around this, we. Can connect around the

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: And, and pull from our experiences to be like, yes, relevant. I’m still relevant as a human being.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: My job function might change a little bit, but I’m still, the end is still the same, the fruit is still the same. I’m trying to to attract attention so people can see the value that I have to offer.

Jeff Sieh: Hmm,

that’s a great point. So, I, we’ve had Vincent, and I always say his name wrong, it’s, leges. I can go back and look everybody, I can’t say it. but he does a, a great community group that he runs. And what he does that I thought was really, really good, and I’ve been on the receiving end of it.

He will send voice messages to people like on Facebook Messenger or whatever. And he does that, he calls it his power Hour. Like he does it the first hour of every day. He goes and leaves these voice messages. And I thought it was genius because of the way that you’re not gonna not listen to a voicemail for one [00:13:00] thing.

especially for somebody that, that you know of and you’re connected with, and that he’s very intentionally about doing that. But you could also use AI in a ways, like, okay, how can, what are some topics that I can, you know, rotate through to talk to these people about and, and it’s not spammy or whatever, but a lot of times we struggle with what to talk about or what to ask or, or whatever, or even, you know, organizing a list and using AI to organize that time to do your power hour.

There’s all sorts of things you can use for that. So what are your thoughts about using it directly in the community? Kind of, you know, processes.

Jason Goff: Well, I mean, the thing that jumps into my head

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Is to resource your audience, your community with something cool that’s gonna make them better. So the first thing that jumps into my head is. people how to build a custom GPT because how

Jeff Sieh: Oh,

Jason Goff: is that? You know, I, I’ve had Facebook Freddy for a long time now. he’s my,

uh,

my intern who

Jeff Sieh: right, right.

Jason Goff: Get clarity with, okay, what am [00:14:00] I gonna post and what’s the format and, and so on. But now are so much more advanced where they’re, you know, you can have a little conversation with them.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: at the end, it composes this. Beautiful, well, i have one that does a purpose statement.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: if you can show people, at least marketers, if you can show your audience of marketers, Hey, here’s a GPT. Did you know that it can do this?

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: you know that you can actually it for a lead magnet? Did you know that you can actually make money making GPTs? All of that?

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, a good idea.

Jason Goff: it’s bringing them along then in the comments, invariably they’ll, there will be somebody who knows something more than you. You.

Jeff Sieh: Mm.

Jason Goff: that is not a threat.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: That’s, that’s awesome. even that strategy we’ve used for years at Social Media Examiner on Facebook, we ask questions. It’s so we can bring out our audience and know what they, what they they know and

Jeff Sieh: Mm.[00:15:00]

Jason Goff: what what they want to know, I win when there’s a comment thread, and I, as the admin am not the one responding to everyone, but that the community is speaking to each other. so it’s like that in, know, in a Mighty Networks community

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Circle community or heartbeat or any of those you have the community helping each other out. There’s no no need to be intimidated by somebody who might know.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: more than you do.

Jeff Sieh: So let, let’s talk about that. ’cause I know a lot of people want to have community and they, they’re thinking about that. and that just didn’t happen overnight, right? Like, I’ve seen that in, the, I’m part of the ai, um, Society. Is that what you say? Is that how it’s called, uh, marketing business, AI Business Society?

There it is. So I taught a class in there and I’m probably talk teaching one, uh, again shortly. But, you mentioned they come in and they, if some question happens, it’s not just the admins doing it, it’s other people in the community are coming around and giving their advice. That doesn’t happen overnight and it doesn’t happen accidentally either.[00:16:00]

Ecamm has the same thing. If you go to ecam M’S community, you’ll see a lot of people ask questions. And before, even like Doc or some of the, the people who actually work for Ecamm, there’s all these comments coming in. How do we get to that point? Because I think a lot of people jump into creating a community because they wanna sell something or they wanna sell, the monthly recurring, they want the monthly recurring revenue for this community they’re in.

But that doesn’t happen overnight. So what are some steps that like people who are starting community can do to get to the level where you’re at now, inside of the social media examiner where people are, are asking questions and getting them answered by the community. There’s this kind of group think they’re working together to solve problems and inviting each other to do things.

How do we get there? Like when we first start?

Jason Goff: Yeah. Get your friends involved.

Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

Jason Goff: And by friends. It doesn’t have to be, you know, best friends in the world, but

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: people who know something about a facet of the industry or

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: at hand. you know, if I’m gonna start, you know, a beer growing club. [00:17:00] You know,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. You’ll lose. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Goff: And yeah. And you know, you might get a beginner

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Just a,

Jason Goff: never, it’s just, it just doesn’t grow past this point, but at least you can talk about it.

Jeff Sieh: mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: And then, and then you get somebody who, you know, is the moisturizer king or, or queen, you know, know, you get them, get them involved in that. And how, how it’s actually promotes good skincare

Jeff Sieh: It does. Yes.

Jason Goff: And how you can attract the right type of client because of the way you look with that, with that fine beard and then you, and then it, it, it’s a a snowball effect

Jeff Sieh: Mm.

Jason Goff: because everybody has something to learn

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: most anybody else, it’s back in the early days of social media, it was always, you know, don’t feed the trolls.

Jeff Sieh: right, right, right,

Jason Goff: And, and it was like, there was such a a that was so highlighted back then. Then. The, the brands that have won are not the ones that fed the trolls. They’re the ones who moved on and cared

Jeff Sieh: right. Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: [00:18:00] were adding value.

Jeff Sieh: I think that’s a great place to start with, you know, adding value, getting your friends involved, and then also not, your posts that I see on, on in social media, examiners feed and other places. When you ask those questions, they’re very open-ended, but then you don’t just leave it, you go back in and you respond to those comments.

You try to continue the conversation. There’s no really sales pushy thing at all in there. I mean, it’s just, it’s organic conversation is what it, I, it kind of looks like to me. And, and I think that’s what people do, wrong, right at the beginning. They go in like, Hey, I’ve got this new course, or, Hey, I’ve got this.

And then they wonder why nobody, why nobody’s commenting on it because they don’t wanna be sold to, they wanna have a conversation.

Jason Goff: absolutely. You know, I’m not gonna, if I, if I’m gonna, you know, you’re in Texas and we just got two, we’ve got two Buckys in Kentucky now, you know.

Jeff Sieh: there you go. Yeah.

Jason Goff: It’s, it’s like me trying to say, Jeff, come to this gas station. The gas station is great. You’re gonna get some great gas.

Jeff Sieh: Right. All right. I want Bucky balls.

Jason Goff: gonna talk about the experience. Yeah.[00:19:00]

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: gonna, you’re gonna talk. I, I want the brisket.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that’s good too.

Jason Goff: you’re gonna talk about the experience and just how when they welcome you in, you know, I feel like responding right back. It’s great to be here. Thank you for welcoming me. You know, that

Jeff Sieh: Right? Right.

Jason Goff: That whole experience that you’re getting, it’s, it’s more than just, oh, you’re gonna, you’re gonna get some great gas there.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I want, I wanna, I think getting, getting that point where you, having that thing that you’re gonna give those people, if it’s gonna be conversations, uh, hopefully the reason I do my live show is because I have people and I can bring up their comments and people I think like that because that’s the community aspect.

Of a live show. And that’s what I love about doing live shows every week. In fact, this is ’cause we’re gonna move on to like some tools and, and Ralph asked this great question. He goes, I had a Zoom meeting with mighty Pro yesterday, which is a kind of a community platform about planning for a community.

And I love the idea in features until they told me they 28,000 price tag per year. Does it need to cost that much. So Jason, as a community leader, and you’ve tried all these [00:20:00] softwares, I know you use Heartbeat over at, the AI Business Society. What are your thoughts about that much money getting started.

Jason Goff: No.

Jeff Sieh: Okay. Expand on that a little bit. Yeah.

Jason Goff: I, yeah, I, I mean the best communities are organic and they are low cost. And people understand, if you’re just starting and if you have a Facebook group, that’s fine. with scaling it to what your needs actually are, are, it’s okay to stand at the, the corner. If you’re selling eggs and you have the hand-painted, you know, wooden sign

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Hand painted eggs for sale, you know, it’s okay to start with the free sign. It’s okay to have the free tools, but then as you’re adopting, I would, I would suggest adopting at least one paid tool.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: for me it’s chat, GBT, you know, 20 bucks

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: Have some of the extra features and have some of the, the privacy. But I scale cautiously, so I have like five tools that I will have [00:21:00] at any given time with three of those being the interchangeable ones,

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: have some sort of image.

generator or like Canva,

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: and Chat. GPT are mine. I cancel Canva for like three days and I realized, oh, I actually do use

Jeff Sieh: I use that a lot. Yeah, yeah,

Jason Goff: now I have to pay three bucks more a

Jeff Sieh: yeah. I know. See what happens. Yeah.

Jason Goff: you know, see,

but yeah. tens of thousands of dollars

all

all sitting on a media

empire

and it’s free

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: build. You just need to get your friends to join you along on the process.

Jeff Sieh: See, I love that about inviting your friends. ’cause I think that’s what I feel like here with everybody who, who shows up, uh, every week. and then Ralph asked this as a follow-up question. He goes, the issue is is that I have several clients who have huge Facebook groups, but Facebook owns that and they don’t get much penetration in making marketing to the group.

That’s why I’m looking at other options to build. So, Ralph, a couple of things that I’ve seen, and I’ll let Jason chime into is a lot of people start with a free Facebook group and then they funnel them into, I don’t think you need to pay that much for Mighty Networks, but there’s circle, there’s heartbeat, can have some WordPress plugins that do the same [00:22:00] thing.

Jason, what else would you recommend for Ralph runs a Christian financial, business. He’s an accountant. He does that as a business, but he also does a daily podcast. And so what would you recommend to Ralph when he’s trying to build this community? ’cause he does have people who come to him for financial advice and instead of just going from one to one, he’s thinking going to one to many.

So what would you recommend for Ralph to get started on these kind of first steps to build this community out?

out?

Jason Goff: Man, I really like, I’ve enjoyed my experience as a user tools like Kajabi, where

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: You know, the website is included and then there’s an email, component to it, that type of thing. I could see as as you scale spending, you know, 150 to $250 a month if you’re, if you’re ready for that. That. Where you own the email list. So like, if, if one of those providers goes outta business tomorrow, well, you still have the email addresses. You have some way to get in touch with your audience.[00:23:00]

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: But the platform doesn’t matter as much as it is like that. You have these people if you stopped posting for three days, they’re gonna say, what’s going on?

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: Oh, I’m curious. everybody’s gonna be like that, but hopefully you’ve built that loyalty where they come to expect, kind of like when a podcast that I’ve been listening to for years, they just stop. I’m

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Well, what happened? You know, you start, start to check the obituaries and

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: ask Chad GPT what happened to, to the person. Right. But, yeah, it, it, it’s really that level of depth that. Your audience comes to expect from you.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. and Sean, uh, Robertson’s from Bo Must Boat, mostly Disney says, yeah, he does his podcast live each week and chatting with the folks in the chat. He wishes he could do that every night. And so so I guess it’s, you need also figure out where your people are. Like we’re very lucky that when we do our live streaming here as we can actually go.

To we’re, we’re on [00:24:00] LinkedIn, which is great for the business side of things. We’re on Facebook, YouTube, for discovery, all those different spots. So I think when you build your community is is pull them, wouldn’t you say to ask them if you have any sort of people who are following you and you’re decided to, to start a community, don’t you think, Jason, you might wanna pull ’em and like, Hey, I’m thinking about doing X.

Would you guys like to go over there? Or is that too big of a lift? I mean, that’s the big, everybody gets scared to do something and even Vincent said this, like, they just need to go somewhere. Like you just need to start it. So what do you say to to something like that?

Jason Goff: Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff Sieh: Okay. Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Um, we were in a Facebook group then we made the shift to heartbeat, and that was a big move. But what ended up happening was the depth of conversation became that much deeper. The comment threads became that much longer. because we got to dictate a little bit more. It wasn’t that the algorithm served. Your feed and oh, the society still exists. Oh, I’m gonna, [00:25:00] no, like, people make a concerted effort. Now, there is an email component to that. We send out an email

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: and it’s like, Hey, we’re here. We’re having great conversation. Come on back. Are there there a fewer a fewer number of people who comment perhaps? But the loyalty that much deeper on a private community. So, Now, I, I say private community, I guess Facebook, it was

Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

Jason Goff: right? But one where the algorithm didn’t have such a, a say in what was served to people.

Jeff Sieh: So are there any other tools that you kind of use like in inside a social media examiner in your other communities? Because I wanna really want to kind of dive into some tools and techniques like, because there’s a different strategy for what you’re doing to build community in Facebook, which is the wide, like I’d say top of the funnel.

And then you have managing communities inside of those walled gardens that like the AI Business Society are. So how do you one move them to that? You just tell them like, Hey, by the way, we have this other thing, [00:26:00] or, yeah. Or do you, and like, and how, what are the strategies like out there you’re kind of, kind of casting a wide net, but inside there you wanna really foster,

communication because, and this is something Jay Klaus says, everybody wants the recurring revenue, right?

But you also have provide recurring value. And a lot of people don’t think through that. When they start a community, they say, I’ll just have a community and then we’ll just talk in there and people will pay me money. But no, you’ve gotta create that recurring value. So talk about the two sides of like the wide funnel and then what you have to do if you have a paid community.

Jason Goff: Yeah. So there’s the component of having the expert come on,

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: That’s great. You know, that’s a, that’s very much a broadcast perspective, which I would be very leery in saying, yeah, throw all your eggs into a broadcast platform where you have one person and they’re speaking and people are listening and that’s it.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: cuts off. Yeah. There’s the element of we’ll have a q and A at the end and, and so on. But let, let’s face it, that’s basically one person saying. Here’s right, here’s how to do [00:27:00] it. But then to add that meetup component where, where there’s a two way communication, like,

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: might set the agenda for what we’re gonna talk about, but then make it very much a collaborative, uh, thing where, we have, we actually have our members on the screen or their voice appears on the, the call and, and. And they help shape where the conversation is gonna go.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: so that gives, that gives the audience member buy-in. can show their expertise. We, we certainly welcome that. I think that’s the thing that i, I hear a lot of creators that that hesitation of, or, or you feel that, where it’s like, well, I wanna be the expert. I wanna hold onto it.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: again, we have so much to learn from each other. Other,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: So to a, to actually have your community rise up and, you know, and, and here’s the little secret with Social Media Examiner. That’s how we find our speakers. That’s how we find people who, whose platforms [00:28:00] are gonna be elevated. You know, it’s not through through pitching us through an email, it’s through being in the community and being helpful. And we don’t see that as a threat.

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: No,

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: that’s a, a tremendous value builder for us.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, and Sean even says, he goes through, I have found that inviting smart folks on and then getting out of the way, has been helpful. That’s my whole strategy, Sean. That’s all I do, I’ve done for over four years and even years before that. That’s why Jason’s on here and not just me, because yeah, you can learn a lot.

And also bringing that and asking the right questions that you know, that your, your audience and your community members need, I think is really, really good. And Social Media Examiner does a great job with that inside their, their societies. One of the things that you mentioned, Jason, in your new role, that you’re really excited to spend more time like sup, supporting community members, fostering discussions and ensuring that they have a, the best possible experience.

What are some, best practices that you use to achieve that? For instance, do you, have you, like strategies for welcoming new members? [00:29:00] Do you have like conversation starters? I mean, what buckets do you have that to make sure people feel heard and valued in the, the community? Because I’d love to know uh, joined Jay Klaus’s.

He’s got what he calls the lab, which is his, uh, kind of for creators, his, kind of masterminding community. He has the best job of onboarding that I have ever seen. Like, I don’t know how he has done it, but it is, he teaches you how to do it. He walks you through, he tries to, put you together in a mastermind with other people.

I mean, it is the best thing I’ve ever seen, but I wanna know how you guys do it. And, you know, to, to welcome new members and get ’em involved.

Jason Goff: And this is a changing process. Mm-hmm. ’cause actually one of our team members rose up about a week or two ago and said, Hey, let’s change that. What is your, we ask what is your superpower? What is, is,

Jeff Sieh: Hmm

Jason Goff: what is it that you bring? And this team member said, why don’t we ask them, what do you wanna learn in the next month? So we have a little bit [00:30:00] of track record behind us now. We’ve around for, uh, about a year. Year. So with the AI Business Society. So we have training on this, that, and the other thing. So chances are if somebody is is wanting in the next month to no. How to become a rockstar with Midjourney. Well, we know, Hey, check out Jeff C’s teaching on it,

Jeff Sieh: Right. It’s out of date now.

Jason Goff: done with this.

Jeff Sieh: It moves so fast. Right. It.

Jason Goff: we need to have Jeff back.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: But that’s, that’s being obsessed with wanting to know what our community members want. And, and getting that need fulfilled. so you, you hear that a lot in the marketing,

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Like, oh, well, we’re giving people what they really need, not just what they want. Well, actually, actually, part of marketing is, you know, I want a better life and I want it now.

Jeff Sieh: Right. Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: And then after you’ve sold them, you know, you’re, you, you say, well, here’s, here’s what you [00:31:00] gotta do.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: Well, the community, they’re, they’re already. Bought into the point, hopefully they’re bought into the point of, I know, I know I need to change and I know I need to take some steps, get me to where I need to go so I can take the steps. And I think that helps with the whole, the churn,

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: I hate to say churn doesn’t

Jeff Sieh: know.

Jason Goff: make you feel kind of

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, well turn, turn the butter. I love butter. So there we go. Um.

Jason Goff: there you go. But, you know, you hear of all of these rates of attrition

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: With private memberships.

But if you are obsessed helping people get to where they need to be, and if it’s an ongoing need, yes. You’re gonna have people who no longer

Jeff Sieh: Right? Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: But by and large, you’re with them in the journey. And that’s the reason, you know, I’ve been a consumer of social media examiners content since 2009.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: I hang in there with it because they have shown me. That they are a proven

Jeff Sieh:Mm-hmm.[00:32:00]

Jason Goff: will, that will help me advance.

Jeff Sieh: So, and I know you guys have ’em because every community does, and we used to call ’em in church, the, the extra grace required people, you know that Yeah. The people that are hard, you know, one, they come in and they seem to dom, they try to dominate every conversation. try to go and comment on every thread.

Sometimes they can become, you know, you have those ones who are really trying to be helpful, but they really dunno what they’re talking about. And then you have some people who are just really trying to sell their own products inside of your community. How do you guys handle those, you know, extra grace required type of people that inevitably will show up to any community that you build.

They’re just, that’s just people. So how do you handle those, that are, are, are struggled to, to deal with a little bit.

Jason Goff: Well. Know, it’s funny, Jeff, because that is actually something that we don’t deal a whole. Lot

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: With anymore because it’s our audience by and large. Now we are bringing in new people, you know, new, new audience audience members all the [00:33:00] time, right?

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: But because it, we have that that maturity with, with, okay. Trust us, we’ve been there,

Jeff Sieh: Right?

Jason Goff: And, and it’s not just a, oh, you know, I’m starting something new today. Trust me, it’s, we have a, you know, a decade and a half

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Almost a decade and a half of experience with people knowing our reputation. what I would say to those who who have those, EG, I, I, I’ve been a part of startups

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: that exists is just being fully aligned with your purpose and reminding people, this the reason we are here. And you can, you can state that strongly, strongly. This is what we’re on about. About. If I, if I tell you, I’m all about helping people win, and Jeff, you come in and you are like, you know what? My audience is stupid and blah, blah, blah.

Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

Jason Goff: And you’re complaining about it. I’m gonna say, well, we’re here to help people win. are you helping people win? Have you thought about that that and ask ask some of those questions? [00:34:00] I think asking questions and getting to the heart of it, you know, it might just be that Jeff has had a really tough day.

Jeff Sieh: It’s,

Jason Goff: really bad week,

Jeff Sieh: it’s been a, it’s,

Jason Goff: of that baggage.

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: And who knows, you know, I used to, I used to be an airline employee back in the day, like

Jeff Sieh: Wow. Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: you could choose the, the airline people. I worked security before the government took it over.

Jeff Sieh: Oh, wow.

Jason Goff: You know, people used to be like, you know, you people are

Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

Jason Goff: Well, the thing is, is needed us. They needed me as an airline employee to be able to board the plane. And I could, you know, withhold boarding

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: somebody. Yeah. They needed me. And in that moment of heat, you have to realize as the person in authority, and you are an authority as the, the community leader, hey, trust me, if you’re gonna have a good experience in here, you’re gonna gonna be the, the person who gives and takes and realizes that you’re not the right, you don’t have ultimate authority.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And

Jason Goff: you can say that in a grace, graceful way. [00:35:00] And if you, if that doesn’t come naturally to you, well, your custom GPT that you built or just just

Jeff Sieh: Right, right,

Jason Goff: GPT,

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: say, you know, I wanna be a, an eight on the level of, on a scale of one to 10, I wanna be an eight level professional. How do I respond to this person?

Jeff Sieh: S.

Jason Goff: does a great job.

Jeff Sieh: So other than just booting people out, like just because they, they make you mad. What are some, uh, some like common pitfalls or mistakes that to avoid when you’re building and growing a community? Because I know a lot of people are interested in starting one and it sounds really reason I haven’t, ’cause it’s a lot of work.

I’ve seen them behind the scenes. It’s not easy to do and do. Right. And so a lot of businesses that start groups or forums that they fizzle out, like, so based on your experience, what should marketers or small business owners not do when trying to cultivate and engage community? Are there like misconceptions that community building that you’d caution against?

Like what would you, what would you tell people not to do when they first start?

Jason Goff: Don’t go for the money.

Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

Jason Goff: [00:36:00] Because it’s, it is a long game. Yeah.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: promise you that if you play the long game, you can make money along the way.

Right? Right.

Jeff Sieh: it’s one thing to, you know, you, you create your courses, the foundational things, that’s how you make your money, right? But if you’re gonna have a membership community, if you’re gonna have something that you want around for many years to come, then by all means, don’t be in it for the money. Be in it for the friendships,

Hmm.

Jason Goff: the, that concept of I am in it for the long haul with these people.

Jeff Sieh: So I said this at a, uh, I don’t some mastermind or something, but, and I, and I told, I knew it shocked people when I said it, but I said I would rather lose business than a relationship. That’s just the way I am. I know that’s totally against what a lot of people say and do in business, but I would, I would rather make sure that, the relationship’s okay.

’cause I think those are what’s gonna last. Business is gonna come to and go, but I really want to keep those relationships going ’cause you never know what can happen. Perfect example, [00:37:00] you know, you talked about building community back in Google Plus, there you go. Chris Stone. You can take a drink. in Google Plus I met Peg Fitzpatrick, right?

Like she was running all of Guy Kawasaki’s social media stuff. And we just had conversations like I’d asked her questions, she’d answered me nothing. I never asked or pitched or anything. We just became friends. Well, lo and behold, eventually, you know, things happen. And then five years ago she goes, Hey guys, doing a podcast.

Do you wanna do it? I’m like, okay. And, I wasn’t thinking, you know, 15 years ago when I met Peg, that I would eventually get business out of her. That’s why we have to have a relationship. That wasn’t it. It just, those things happen, those natural things happen that, you know, uh, I’m friends with Ralph, uh, in the comments he and I met on Dave Jackson’s Saturday Life show that he does.

And so, I mean, it’s just, those things happen. Business happens, but relationships, I think those are the things that I want to, uh, stick around.

Jason Goff: absolutely. And I mean, I think the perfect way to illustrate in my life the way that has worked is, um, my cousin and I a [00:38:00] history podcast that we

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm. Right.

Jason Goff: we did it just because we were cousins. We were 11 years apart. You know, I’m the Gen X, he’s the millennial.

Right. And we grew up in different areas and we did this podcast together we, neither one of us were history majors, but we had political science grads asking us to talk about the subject because they wanted to hear our perspective on it.

Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

Jason Goff: out of that came so many cool relationships, like with, you know, a US Capitol tour guide took us around the Capitol building and we were able to, you. Kind of be a little bit famous in, in that,

Jeff Sieh: Right. Yeah.

Jason Goff: all forgotten about now. if we would’ve sustained those relationships in a private community, you know, could have been the goofy ones who made the t-shirts and did the fun stuff with

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: of that. that would have, you know, a lasting just, just for your [00:39:00] soul.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: Just to have that, have those relationships out there where, you know, somebody, you know, I would pull into a city I’d be able to meet somebody for lunch that was just a member of our community. How cool is that? And, and Jeff, we kind of met that way.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: it just goes to show that, you know, with any, anything, there’s good and there’s bad, pull all those, those good things out.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: ’cause there for you.

Jeff Sieh: Right. And, and it does make a difference, building this community. Like, and Gary says this, yeah, I can’t wait to meet Jeff in person. I, I know Gary and Gary, but you’ll have to bring your guitar and, and play some music. So that’s the cool thing about people that even that you have relationship with online, you know, stuff about him.

I know Gary’s an incredible musician, uh, and does some cool stuff. And so when you do get to those conferences, like Social Media Marketing World, or I’m going to CEX later this year, there’s people that just because of the, we all move in these same circles that you meet and then you get to hang out with and have conversations.

And like [00:40:00] Jason and I, he lives in, Kentucky. I live in Texas, but we meet up and we, since we meet every week, we’re in a kind of a mastermind thing together. Where we get to just continue the conversation. It’s really, really cool. Like I know Chris and Jim Fs from deal casters who watch like that, we just go and it’s just like, Hey, okay, you’re live.

We’ll just continue the conversation. That’s what is, really cool. I’m laughing at Gary ’cause he goes, he’s an incredibly funny dancer. yeah, I am funny, but not in the good way, Gary. so, but yeah, I think coming and meeting and, and having those relationships that continue are important.

The last question I wanna ask you kind about the, the tools ed, uh, for creating a community is how many people do you need to have to start a community? That’s a big question. I know a lot of people know, you mentioned friends, like is there a, do you start with five?

Do you wait till you get a hundred? What’s, what do you think is the, the rule for you to, when you are thinking about putting a community together

Jason Goff: how you like this? Yeah. Well, it depends, right?[00:41:00]

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: I mean, I would, I would think if you can find five people who are really interested in the subject, so, okay, let’s take that. There’s a really unique thing about Jason Goff. I love baseball, but it’s not primarily because I enjoy knowing the stats about all of the players or, or this or that. I like the organ music. And I like the, the aesthetics of it. I like the logos uniforms and the way the stadium is and, and stuff like that. else might like the, the food that’s there, or, or they might like the stats or whatever. But if I can get five people to to talk about how much they love the aesthetic aspect of, of the sport and how it makes you you feel. Well. That’s just gonna snowball because it’s a unique angle

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: On that particular thing. So, oh, you know, I, I’m the guy who catches foul balls and, you know, collects ’em. Like, might be cool to that audience, but they, might be like, no, dude, [00:42:00] I just like the, I just like the pictures. So in that, in that case, I would say, yeah, get five people talk about it on Facebook. Have a, have a public page on that. And then if it snowballs into something else where it’s like, oh, we like to custom design logos. Like say my, my little town, that’s one square mile big.

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: we had a baseball team and

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: What would its logo look like then you might be able to make a product out of that. so I would say with something that’s small, have, have something that’s more public.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: then if it becomes, you know, deeper.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

If

Jason Goff: it gets into, ’cause it could get into where, yeah. A whole bunch of people who don’t want to comment

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: at hand are not in it. So I say the private communities are really good for those people who you stick your neck out anytime you comment on a social media post.

Jeff Sieh: right, right, right.

Jason Goff: give people, as a community leader, you wanna give them safety.

Jeff Sieh: so this is, tell me if I’m wrong, ’cause this is the way I think of it. Like I say, if you have like five people inter interested in a subject, maybe you [00:43:00] do a mastermind. Because that, to me, it’s kind of very community. You’re coming in it together, you’re sharing things, you can do video calls and you can really develop a relationship.

I have a paid mastermind where, Jim is in there, Connor’s in there, Paul Gower and some other friends like, uh, Kira who was in here earlier as part of it. And so that’s a great thing for me. ’cause like five people kinda had the same ideas, kind of wanted to move in the same direction. But then let’s say I wanted to do, ’cause I’ve actually thought about this.

I want to have a community bout how to create AI images. Like that’s what we focus on. If you need help with that, you see my thumbnails, let’s do a community about that. I would say maybe 15 to 20, then I can start thinking about a community in, in that way. I don’t know, am I off on that? You’re the, you’re the community guy, but that’s, once again, this is free consulting for me, but what do you, what would you say?

Okay.

Jason Goff: Absolutely. Now, if you’re talking about it just from strictly a marketing perspective

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: where I’m, that’s kind of where I’m entering into things. It’s like, Hey, this new guy, Jason Goff just shows up on the scene. Mm-hmm. Oh, what, [00:44:00] what authority

Jeff Sieh: Right, right. Right.

Jason Goff: where where public, you know, see if you can get

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: sort of interest generated from that and then take it private. But yeah, I would, I would say I would even go higher if it’s, if you’re just new onto the scene.

Jeff Sieh: Right. Right.

Jason Goff: have the public.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: and and then, and then go from there.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, the reason I was thinking about that number is because I’ve spoken about it a couple times. I’m speaking about it more this year. So I feel like I’m kind of out there as people ask me for my opinions. And so that might be a thing. Now, if I was gonna say like, Hey, I’m gonna start a, a thing on Substack, which I know nothing about, like Jim Fuse is in it.

I, and I’m still don’t ex understand it a hundred percent. Like I would not create a community on that because I don’t know enough like I would, and, and why would anybody want to join a community where he’s talking about Substack? I’ve never even seen him on it. He, he doesn’t even have an icon. Like, you know what I mean?

So I think it has to be something that’s you’re very passionate about and you really have some knowledge about. Am I correct on that? That?

Jason Goff: I would say though that because you already have a [00:45:00] following. You’ve got the know, like, trust factor. So they’re gonna trust you that you’re gonna bring who are substack experts.

Jeff Sieh: Mm. Okay. I see that. Yeah.

Jason Goff: out of of that, that’s, that’s where list building building and having, you know, having your people

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: you know, your beard goes before you.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: And, and

Jeff Sieh: So, so that’s another part I wanna talk about. Like a lot of times we talk about these things as like they’re one like chunk of community, okay, how do you build community? But a lot of this stuff all works together. Like your social proof helps. You have some people that are interested in joining community.

Having a list where you can advertise that community into is a big deal that just doesn’t happen. Uh, so there’s a lot of this synergy that has to happen. I mean, social Examiner has a huge email list where they can advertise, Hey, we got this new AI society that’s coming on. He’s got a huge podcast where he can do that on.

So. Would you suggest somebody who is just starting [00:46:00] outlets? And I always use this example, like, let’s say it’s a local florist, they’re selling roses and they want to bring community of other, not just other florists, but they wanna bring people inside who buy their products and they wanna build a community.

they start with like, Hey, here’s some free templates, on how to arrange your own garden flowers kind of a thing, and like that kind of stuff, and build it up that way before they, you know, move on to something bigger.

I,

Jason Goff: I, yeah. Well I mentioned like, okay, my city is one square mile.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: that forest has a huge advantage because they

have.

have

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: they have built-in guardrails on how they’re gonna build the community.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: their advantage. They’ve got, you know, the funeral home, they’ve got the wedding planner and so on. they can, they can create. That community within the community. Mm-hmm.

Jeff Sieh: Hmm.

Jason Goff: And then duplicate that. So, you know, think city, county, state, you know, region grow where you’re planted. Right,

Jeff Sieh: Right. Gotcha. [00:47:00] Okay.

Jason Goff: and, and serve them well. And you know, you see the best realtors, the best realtors are the ones you are like, don’t move to Kentucky because, and then they’ll give all the reasons why

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: amazing.

Jeff Sieh: right, right.

Jason Goff: have better chili than Texas, you know.

Jeff Sieh: No, that is not true. Not true.

Jason Goff: So we absolutely do.

Jeff Sieh: No. We’ll fight on that one. So

Jason Goff: eat chili over spaghetti, Jeff. You

Jeff Sieh: not in Texas. Anyway, um, something that we will not fight about is the amazing people over at Ecamm. See how I segued that so nicely? You can find out more about that at ecamm.com/jeff. They are what Makes this show possible.

We appreciate their sponsorship and you can see even when there’s hiccups. I’m able to just bring Jason right back in, even though, because he makes those chili comments, that’s why he gets booted outta here so many times. Uh, but m.com/jeff use code Jeff 15 to say 15% on your first, purchase over there.

But I wanna ask this question of, Jason, ’cause I think it’s important, like, I wanna talk about the return on investment of community.

’cause everybody has to have like a ROI. When you’re [00:48:00] talking to your bosses, they wanna know, okay, you wanna do this community, why? What’s it gonna do to our bottom line? so when people ask that question, how do you answer it, Jason? Like in practical terms, like what returns can a strong community drive for a business say that Florist and even a big, you know, conference based company like social media examiner.

Jason Goff: Well, your community is, that’s where the built the no like and trust factor.

right?

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: You must have them. So, social media examiner, our founder, Michael Stelzner, has been very upfront with some of the trouble that we’ve had with our email

This year. And yet we just came out of having one of our best conferences ever. Why is that? because we had community. Being like, well, where are they? I’m not getting your emails. Oh, I’ll send them a message.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: You know, send ’em a DM or, or an email, or even call them. not hearing from you guys this year what’s going on and being upfront with it. You know, we can admit that, oh, a a marketing [00:49:00] company

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Had trouble with their email. That’s, that seems like, well, why did that marketing company have trouble with their marketing emails because we are real people. And

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: We are right there. And

Jeff Sieh: doesn’t care. Right. Right.

Jason Goff: So,

so the return on investment That was our conference this year. Our community is,

that’s, that’s where they

where they came from.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: were

loyal. So, you know, and having, having your KPIs outline, you know, like,

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: we doing this? Well, of course we’re doing this to make money.

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: we are in it to see people win. And when people win, they reward us with their dollars.

Jeff Sieh: So, and I think that’s important because so many times is people want to create a community to get that the recurring money, but they don’t think about, like, there’s a balance. Like you can’t just go out and say like, I have this community. Here’s the stuff. Go. You, you have to have the attitude of like, we are serving you first.

Right? Like you said, we wanna help people win. but we’re serving you first. you, I’ve been in those communities where it’s like, [00:50:00] okay, I’m outta here. It’s a sales pitch. This Facebook group that you say it’s free. I can tell I’ve been in this long enough that you’re just trying to funnel me to your high ticket item.

it’s a balance like of how to do that correctly without making people feel like you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re just wanting their dollar. So I, and I really like how Social Media Examiner has done that because they, they do lead with value first. Like, Hey, it’s not just pay us to be in our community for whatever, but you get all these trainings, you get all this with it, we’re here for you.

And, and they have those emails that come out. So yeah, I think it’s a, it’s a, that’s a great point to make, that you have to lead that way.

Jason Goff: it,

it’s access,

Jeff Sieh: Hmm. Hmm.

Jason Goff: know, so you have access to me very freely on, on the social properties.

Jeff Sieh: Right,

Jason Goff: I am. you actually have more access. Not that you would want it, Jeff, but you would have more access to it in the society.

Jeff Sieh: right, So access is huge. And I know that’s one of the reasons like Jay Klaus has done his thing is ’cause a lot of people want to get to [00:51:00] have his knowledge that they can access. And I think that’s a great selling point for a community. I wanna dive into a little bit what you said about Social Media Examiner, because it’s built thriving communities like the Social Media Marketing Society for Marketers and the new AI Business Society, for those who want to dive into ai.

So what value do those initiatives like those bring to both the members and the company? for instance, like Social Media Examiner launched the AI Business Society, help marketers navigate that. The AI’s changing so fast. what outcomes or success stories have you seen from those membership communities?

Like, how do they help them contribute to their overall business goals?

Jason Goff: Um, everything from, well, of course. Course, yeah. If you’re in this online community

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: you get the opportunity to actually meet your fellow community members, that’s,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Goff: you know, and 2015 was my first year of attending Social Media Marketing World. And, and it was like the world’s fair fair

Jeff Sieh: Right. It was, yeah.

Jason Goff: because, you know, you had [00:52:00] all of these different who had their audience and I was a member of, um, two different communities that were represented among the speakers mm-hmm. At Social Media Marketing World. And that me to other communities and, and. and it was like we had these instant friendships, were formed out

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: And, and the whole bit, one of which I’m still in a mastermind from 2015, you know, started a podcast because of

that

and so on. So there’s that element of, you know, the IRL, you know?

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Just seeing the people in real life, it’s like a, it’s better than a family reunion, right?

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Not the awkward thing because you are talking about a, a

Jeff Sieh: Right, right,

Jason Goff: people get you

Jeff Sieh: right.

Jason Goff: But then also speaker recruitment. Is there a better way to recruit speakers than the people who rise to the top and are

Jeff Sieh: That’s, yeah.

Jason Goff: Makes my job really easy because I get pitched [00:53:00] I single day. Day. Can I be on your podcast? Are you in our community? It doesn’t necessarily even mean you’re in our paid community, but are you interacting with with us? Are you part of like are you part of what we’re the movement that we’ve created? So Yeah. I think that’s a

Jeff Sieh: great point.

Jason Goff: makes everybody’s job easier because we are attracting the people and repelling the people who aren’t interested.

Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point of having your statement strong enough where you’re attracting the ones you want and repelling the ones that you don’t, because the, the ones that get in that shouldn’t be are the ones that cause the most trouble. so I, and if you can’t talk about this, this is fine, but I know you started the AI Society and you’re kind of, ’cause it’s, it’s public knowledge.

I believe it’s sunsetting. The social media marketing society that’s happening I believe in June. So how, when it comes to measuring the success of a community strategy, what metrics or indicate Do you look at like engagement rate, membership growth? Is there, can you go into the reason maybe [00:54:00] why you shut down the society and going all in and the AI stuff?

Is there, was the engagement dropping off in there and then, or did you just want think of like, we can move these people over kind of a thing?

Jason Goff: Yeah. There is that element of, there were some people, when we made that announcement, there was, there was some disappointment. lot of it’s nostalgia though. Though, mm-hmm.

Jeff Sieh: mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: We started to, you know, this information, it’s matured, it’s met its purpose.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: And because of that, the part of the society that, the social media marketing society, that was was just robust. And I think that people when they first heard that announcement, they, they grieved a a little bit

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: Well, where am I gonna get my questions? Like, where can I get the, some of those questions answered? And that’s where thankfully we have that the, in the AI Business Society where, that’s still a topic underneath the, the

Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

Jason Goff: Right. So it more as a, it’s not even a, a shifting of focus. [00:55:00] It’s more of a, marketing has changed and this is, this is where we can assuage the fear.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And I just wanna say, I think you guys have done a really good job of, ’cause I was in both, like, I taught in the society and also in the AI society, and I think you’ve done a good job of educating because you, if you didn’t educate people, people would just be hacked off and leave. Right? Like, but you educated why this was happening, how we’re doing it, and what you get with this.

And it is, marketing has changed because of ai. Like it’s, it, it touches every part of what we do and that’s why we talk about it so much on this show. But, I was very impressed with the way you guys did that and I think that was important that you, I’m sure you’ll have some churn, but in the, it’s gonna be better for the, the long term.

So I’m, so what I’m hearing you say is the R-I-R-O-I was better for moving to the AI Society and sunsetting the other one.

one.

Jason Goff: Absolutely.

Jeff Sieh: right. Jason, I don’t know, is there a question that I should have asked you that I didn’t? Because I feel like you have so much about community that I could ask that I don’t know [00:56:00] that what I, what I should have asked you. So is there anything that you can think of that

Jason Goff: we will never know? We’ll know. You’ll download this transcript,

Jeff Sieh: anyway? What?

Jason Goff: GPT and ask it. What should I have asked?

Jeff Sieh: No, I’m, I, because I think it’s, I think because of the rise of ai, right? We’ve got this coming, you know, people are gonna kind of stop trusting the written word and there’s all this stuff, like who’s really talking. That’s why I love the live show is because we’re, it’s, this is gonna be hard to fake it.

I think community is going to, the, the desire for community is only gonna increase from what it is now because of it. we’ve talked about the tools inside of it, but we’ve also talked about like what AI can’t do. And aI can’t have. I mean, even if it kinda sounds like a real person, it’s still not a real person that can really empathize with you.

Hey, bring in their real life experiences really, really quickly. So I think, I think community’s gonna be a growing thing, and I think there’s gonna be a lot of people who do it really, really wrong, but the people who do it right are really gonna see the benefits from that. So what are your thoughts in the future?

Yeah.

Jason Goff: Yeah, [00:57:00] And we’re seeing that right now. You know, you, you just heard the big announcement with a lot of the of the software software companies, you know, they’re either not hiring or they’re laying off. because the, the ability to code code is important. It’s important to know

Jeff Sieh: Right, right.

Jason Goff: But it’s, it’s sped up so much more just, just as writing.

Jeff Sieh: Mm-hmm.

Jason Goff: You know, know, but that, those things shouldn’t be fearful. Our cause of fear. It should, it, it might put a fire under our seat to be like, okay, who am I gonna serve? Who am I gonna help?

Jeff Sieh: And

Jason Goff: if, if anything anything good good that comes out of this disruption is we will align ourselves with the people who we can help most.

And when we get, when we get a handle on that of I really care about group of people and almost on an individual, like I actually actually care, like they are my friends, you know, our customers, they are my friends because i I help them and they help [00:58:00] me.

And AI doesn’t do that.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff: AI gives me a connection point. Jeff, I have learned so much. Your session at Social Media Marketing World inspired me. Me and continues to, I’ve never,

Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I’ve got it recorded now. I’m gonna, I’m just gonna play it back and forth. Over and over. Yeah. I was put on loop.

Jason Goff: But it, it did, it stirred something up inside of me to wanna know more so I can help this set of people better.

Jeff Sieh: Right.

Jason Goff:and no computer or algorithm or anything is gonna do that. That’s the human to human thing.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah,

Jason Goff: at this. and can now introduce it to people, you know, I got my wife on chat, GPT and and she’s,

Jeff Sieh: I know.

Jason Goff: you know, she’s

Jeff Sieh: I,

Jason Goff: five, which is the research thing, and it is like, you know?

Jeff Sieh: that’s good. Yeah.

Jason Goff: And, and it’s so cool to see that transformation happening.

Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

Jason Goff: So

Jeff Sieh: A lot of tools, but, and, and so, and as we wrap this up, I wanted to bring up a comment of, hostel family, uh, films says such [00:59:00] a great point about life. So, and you saw today, like Jason’s camera went away. I was flustered at the start ’cause stuff just didn’t work. Like AI can’t, do that.

Like, you know, you’re seeing the raw stuff that happens live, and I think that’s gonna be for, for companies and businesses to show that side of them. Like, this is real. Like, there’s no denying that this stuff doesn’t work. And, you know, this was not ai. So I think it’s gonna be more important, uh, and more and more important as we move forward.

But Jason, thank you so much. I think we’ll have to have you on again, because community is just gonna grow. There’s gonna be even more best practices and things we need to follow as we continue to do this in a way that does, I mean, we all need to make money, but in a way that is serving other people.

This is another way that we, we provide service to our clients and, and customers. So I think it’s, it’s gonna be more and more important as we go forward. So thank you so much for this. Where can people find out more about the amazing Jason Goff, where they can, you know, find out, you know, about your stuff you’re doing at [01:00:00] Social Media Examiner, the stuff that you’re doing at other places, let us know.

know.

Jason Goff: Absolutely. So the best place to connect with me is on LinkedIn. So you can do jason goff.com/linkedin. That will take you there. And then the AI Business Society social media examiner.com/ai society. And you can just go to the website. Um, but I love to see many of you in there because there is so much good. Good, that’s coming out of that. Jeff’s in there too, so why not?

Jeff Sieh: I am, it’s a, it’s, it’s a great place. If, I mean, I would say this, it’s for users of all skill levels. Like if you’re just dipping your toe into ai, it’s a great place to start. There’s plenty of things in there to look, if you wanna dive in deep to something like Mid Journey, there’s, there’s a course in there, there’s probably gonna be one coming up on about Chat, pt, image Generation.

But there’s all sorts of things in there, how to use it to write ads with all sorts of cool things. So I, uh, really recommend, going in there and talking with Jason at the AI Society. Social Examiner’s a great company. I appreciate them, and letting me borrow you a little bit [01:01:00] too.

It’s been nice, uh, for that. So I appreciate you coming on. Jason, thank you so much for today. thankful for all of you. Like Gary, rich Graham saying wheels off. Yeah, my wheels flew off today. Abby is watching the comments, but mostly Disney. Sean, uh, watching that and our friends at ralph@askralph.com.

Really great show today and thank you so much Jason, for taking your time out and we appreciate all of you guys. We’ll see you next time. Bye everybody.