SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Dave Jackson: that’s kind of it. Knowing your audience and knowing what they want. And then delivering it to them in a somewhat entertaining or educational fashion, because if you do not educate or entertain, they’re not going to stick around, why else? I mean, there’s a word for that. It’s called boring.

[00:00:18] And really the bottom line is you don’t want to be boring. And At that point, once they go, wow, I didn’t know there was a show about chameleon breeding, or I didn’t know there was a show for whatever the niche is, then when at the end or in the middle or wherever you ask them, say, hey, if you got any value from this, could you do me a favor?

[00:00:39]And do you know somebody else? Today we talked about, you know, Dave Matthews, you know, do you know anybody else who likes Dave Matthews? Could you do me a favor and go to your phone and just share it with them

[00:00:49] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:00:53] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:59] Jeff Sieh: You ever wondered what it really takes to turn your podcast into a profitable venture? Are you looking for real strategies beyond just getting more downloads to actually make money from your show? Or maybe you’re trying to figure out the best way to attack sponsors, grow your audience, or leverage your podcast.

[00:01:15] Social Media News Live. As a business asset, if any of that sounds familiar, you’re in the right place. Dave Jackson podcast, Hall of Famer and author of profit from your podcast has spent years teaching creators how to turn their passion into income. As Dave says, you’re not just recording audio, you’re creating assets.

[00:01:33] So this week, he’s going to be sharing practical insights, expert tips, and earned lessons on how to monetize your show without losing sight of what makes it great. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Social Media News Live. Dave, thank you so much for being here again.

[00:01:49] Dave Jackson: Oh, dude, so happy to be here. Always great to hang out with you guys.

[00:01:53] Jeff Sieh: Yeah,

[00:01:53] Conor Brown: It’s going to be awesome. Dave’s the man. If you don’t know who Dave is, you should. Dave Jackson began podcasting in 2005 and launched his show School of Podcasting, which has over 3. 2 million downloads. He has helped hundreds of people plan, launch, and grow their podcasts, and he is the author of the book Profit From Your Podcast, Proven Strategies to Turn Listeners Into a Livelihood.

[00:02:18] He’s also a featured speaker at events like All over the place, he’s worked for Libsyn where he was head of podcaster education and currently works for Podpage as the head of podcasting. And in 2018, he was inducted in the Academy of Podcasters Hall of Fame. As always, thanks again for being here, Dave.

[00:02:38] for

[00:02:41] Jeff Sieh: too long because I read his book, but we’ll talk about that in a little bit. But, one of the things I want to do is a shout out to our friends. I mentioned Dave’s show on Saturday. He uses our friends over at Ecamm as well, and you can find out more about that at ecamm.

[00:02:53] com forward slash Jeff. Save 15 percent with that code JEFF15 when you enter that for your first purchase. So, really thankful for Ecamm for helping us make this show happen. Dave, I want to just, you know, we’ve hung out at conferences before, we’ve talked a lot, and I’ve seen you speak, which, if you haven’t had a chance to see Dave speak, he is an incredible speaker.

[00:03:13] I was so impressed when I just, I just popped into a session over at PodFest, but, one of the things that you talk a lot about in your book is the importance of relationships, but also that there’s some strategies that you have, because in your book you say being in the phone book, you’re talking about Apple, you know, the Apple directory, does not make you famous, and many podcasters think just launching their show, You know, getting an apple it’s gonna shoot them to success.

[00:03:38] So, what are the crucial steps podcasters need to take to actually grow their audience? Because that’s, if you have one theme in your book, it’s, it’s about the audience, know your audience, that type of thing.

[00:03:49] Dave Jackson: Yeah, that’s, that’s kind of it. Knowing your audience and knowing what they want. And then delivering it to them in a somewhat entertaining or educational fashion, because if you do not educate or entertain, they’re not going to stick around, why else? I mean, there’s a word for that. It’s called boring.

[00:04:08] And really the bottom line is you don’t want to be boring. And At that point, once they go, wow, I didn’t know there was a show about chameleon breeding, or I didn’t know there was a show for whatever the niche is, then when at the end or in the middle or wherever you ask them, say, hey, if you got any value from this, could you do me a favor?

[00:04:30] And do you know somebody else? Today we talked about, you know, Dave Matthews, you know, do you know anybody else who likes Dave Matthews? Could you do me a favor and go to your phone and just share it with them? And I got that tip. Now that’s not the 10, 000 downloads switch, right? We’re all looking for that switch, but there’s a guy, there’s a show called Darknet Diaries, and Jack, was getting insane amounts of downloads.

[00:04:53] And I said, how, how, how are you doing that there, buddy? And he said, that’s it. I basically asked my audience and I’m like, really? And he goes, well, let’s back up before I launched. And that’s the key before he launched. He had people listen to it. And he said, did you, uh, did you listen to the whole thing? If not, why did you stop and where did you stop?

[00:05:13] And then on a scale from one to 10, how likely are you to tell a friend? And he said, if I got like a seven or an eight, it was like back to the drawing board. And so he said, so when I ask people to share it with a friend, he goes, they should, because I know it’s good. And I was like, interesting. And I said, okay, great.

[00:05:32] Got it. Ask your audience. And I said, what else do you do? And he goes, that’s it. And I was like, so it really kind of comes down to the content. And then the other thing after I talked to him about that, I started listening to people do that. And the problem is when we start to promote ourselves, we, we feel icky and salesy.

[00:05:52] And so people are like, Hey, you know, like, if, if you kind of want to, I don’t know, you could like share something. I don’t know what my website. com. Okay. Thanks. And you’re like, what did I just listen to? You know? And so say it slowly, specifically. With confidence. And I had a friend of mine, I’d known her about six months and I helped her launch a podcast and I listened to all of her episodes.

[00:06:14] And I go, Hey, how’s, how’s the show going? She goes, it’s actually growing like faster than I thought. I’m like, great. She goes, but I’m not getting any speaking gigs. And I go, wait a minute, you, you do, like, I’ve known you the better part of a year now, you do speaking gigs? And she goes, yeah. And I go, I’ve never heard you mention it on your show.

[00:06:34] And she goes, I don’t, it’s just, I feel, it feels all salesy. And I go, well, you don’t have to, like, you know, do a Sunday, Sunday kind of commercial for it. And, and she goes, but yeah, I spoke to a bunch of high school kids in the Bronx last week. And I go, all right, this is how you start your next show. I go, just go, Hey, thanks so much for tuning in.

[00:06:53] I was talking to a bunch of high school kids at the Bronx and this one young man came up to me and asked me a question. And I thought, man, that’d be a great topic for the podcast. I go, there you go. Your audience now knows that you talk to people, you know, high school kids or whatever you want to do.

[00:07:08] They know you’re a speaker. And so a lot of times I will start off a story with, I was working with a client and I, you know, depending on what the story is, I will keep their name out of it. But at least that way people know, oh, Dave does consulting or, you know, a member of the school of podcasting was asking me about, oh, okay.

[00:07:25] So it doesn’t have to be. A giant in your face commercial. Those help, you know, somewhere along the line, you do have to ask for something, but that’s the one when it comes to growing your show that, you know, ask your audience because they go, well, it’s not fair, you know, Joe Rogan or, you know, whoever, you know, they all have a team.

[00:07:46] And for the record, Joe has a team of three from what I’ve heard. He doesn’t have a team of 18. They’re like, it’s not fair. They’re all out promoting it. And I’m like, well, you have a team. It’s called your audience and ask them to share it. I know, um, Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak, they do, uh, the No Agenda Show and they always talk about, you can contribute in one of three fashions.

[00:08:06] time, which is you’re listening to the show, talent. So in some cases they have people do artwork and things like that and treasure. And sometimes that talent is just telling other people about the show. And so, you know, You know, you do have an audience. I, I, the, the church I go to, how can I, I, you know what?

[00:08:24] We’ll, just nobody’s listening to this and, uh, the, uh, , but what I mean by that, from my church. Okay, let me, let me

[00:08:31] Jeff Sieh: Right. Right. Okay. There you go.

[00:08:32] Dave Jackson: yeah,

[00:08:33] yeah.

[00:08:33] Conor Brown: right.

[00:08:34] Dave Jackson: Let back that up a lot. but, the pastor, a very nice man, had gone up in years, shall we say, and at times was writing checks. His body couldn’t cash. And consequently.

[00:08:45] Nobody was telling anybody at my church, you got to come to my church. The messages are amazing and they fit in. So, you know, and we, we swapped him out. And what do you know, the church is growing now. So I saw somebody in Facebook and they’re like, I’ve been doing this for a year. I’m using this microphone.

[00:09:05] I really like the sound of my voice on this, but I want to upgrade. And I was like, huh, and so many people dance around the fact that, it’s the content really that grows the show. So I’m going to get a new microphone because, you know, I want to get the one that, that Jeff uses or, or whatever.

[00:09:23] If I only had Colin’s microphone, I know my show would grow. And I’m like, no, that’s, if nobody’s complaining about your audio. That’s not the problem. So it, it is kind of hard at times. I just, I did this, last night and it was interesting because I love AI tools, but I also, they also are kind of spooky.

[00:09:42] And so I do, I do a show with Daniel J. Lewis called The Future of Podcasting and we were talking about the future of podcast production. We’re talking about things like Descript and AI and tools and things like that. So I took the transcript of that show of Daniel and I, because at one point I go, it would be weird to have AI critique the show.

[00:10:02] I guess I go, because so many people. Like, I offer all sorts of ways to have me, like, listen to your show and say, Oh, look at this. Cause I mean, speaking of that same church, we had a logo on our little pamphlet that we handed out. It’s been there for five years and the logo had a typo in the name.

[00:10:21] Jeff Sieh: Oh, gosh. Yeah.

[00:10:22] Dave Jackson: So you, you need an outside person to look at this.

[00:10:25] And so I took our episode and transcribed it and threw it into chat GPT and said, like, what did you think about this? And it was interesting cause she said. Daniel and I kind of have multiple topics and at the end she said, you should do a review. And kind of like today we talked about, you know, yada, dada, dada, and blah, blah, blah.

[00:10:45] And I was like, you know what? That’s not a bad note. And so I heard that and was like, oh, great. I’m out of a job. Wonderful. Thank you, uh, ChadCPT. But You know, again, we all need, I think, a little feedback on, you know, what’s working and what’s not so we can do more of what’s working and less of what’s not.

[00:11:03] Jeff Sieh: So it’s funny that you, I’m going to jump in real quick, Connor, but, Dustin says, I found Dave’s podcast because I got a Google alert where he mentioned Magi. And so, um, one of the things is, is in your book, you talk about like building those relationships, continuing to listen and making sure that you always are answering those people who mentioned you, those kinds of things.

[00:11:22] I want to jump back really quick to something you said about calls to action, because you mentioned that lady never mentioning her speaking gig. For a show, when is it too much? Like, for example, like you do consulting. You also have the school podcast and you have all this stuff. I have Ecamm as a sponsor.

[00:11:38] I do speaking. I also do, you know, Guy Kawasaki’s podcast. So I do podcast editing services. So you don’t try to jump all those in at once. So how do you figure out when you have too many calls to action and when you don’t, like, what is your kind of rule on that?

[00:11:55] Dave Jackson: Yeah. The one I hear that just, I, I, again, got hired by a client. He said, I’m not getting any. I’m not getting any engagement with my audience. So I listened and the show wasn’t bad, but all of his calls to action were at the end.

[00:12:09] and and I get that, but it was like, follow me on Twitter. Instagram is such and such and blah, blah, blah.

[00:12:14] Don’t forget to sign up for the newsletter because you woke up today and went, I hope I can find a newsletter to sign up for today. Uh, and then blah, blah. And he literally like, by the time you get to call to action three, you already forgot what call to action one is. So, like, you do a really good job of occasionally you’ll start off a story with, well, on Guy’s podcast, and then you’ll kind of nonchalantly, oh, I edit for Guy Kawasaki, blah, blah, blah, and then you go into the story.

[00:12:39] So it’s, again, it’s not like a big deal, it’s just a, just a little side note, by the way, you know, and that’s just, you know, great credibility for you. And so, it is hard, I know I struggle with doing one call to action. Because I want you to sign up for my newsletter, and I want you to like and subscribe and follow and ring the bell and all those other things.

[00:12:59] So it is kind of tough, but if you give them this smorgasbord of calls to action, they’re not going to do any of them. They’re going to like, well, which one should I do? Now, which one, how much is too much? Because there are times when they’re annoying in a cute way. my buddy David Hooper does a show.

[00:13:19] And his goal, it’s obvious what his goal is. He wants you to sign up for the newsletter because it’s an audio version of the newsletter. And during that show at he’ll have, it’s like a magazine style. So we have a little story. I found this tool. It does this and blah, blah, blah. And it fries bacon and edits your show all at the same time.

[00:13:36] Go to newsletter. bigpodcast. com. Now, why do I know that up that, that, uh, URL? Cause he says it about seven times a show. It’d be like, want it? Newsletter. bigpodcast. com. This is episode, whatever, 212. And so it’s funny because about the third time you hear it, you’re like, okay, Dave, I got it. Newsletter.

[00:13:54] bigpodcast. com.

[00:13:55] Jeff Sieh: right,

[00:13:56] Dave Jackson: But on the other hand, you’re like, okay, well, it’s working. Cause I remember the URL. And he doesn’t, he does it in just a way that like, it’s a drive by mention, right? He’s not doing the, you know, schoolofpodcasting. com that’s schoolofpodcasting. com one more time. You know, he’s not doing that.

[00:14:14] It’s just a little mention too, and it works. And I’m sure if we talk to him, he’s probably got more people signing up for his newsletter. But I think some of it is in a way how it’s done. I know, I listened to a podcast, a new one this week, Who Shall Go Unnamed, and it’s interesting because their, their business strategy is to get you to sign up for the ad free version.

[00:14:37] And I’m like, oh, okay. and they gave decent content, but it was like three to four minutes of ads and I’m like, oh, okay, well, I get the ad free thing. Then they did another segment. Then they did another three minutes of ads. And I was like, oh, okay. Cause how long is this show? Then another segment and then another three minutes.

[00:14:54] And I was like, well, cause it, it, by the third time and to their credit, most of the sponsors somewhat fit me. But, you know, it wasn’t like they were trying to sell me, you know, whatever. Uh, do you need mulch for your front yard? And then they’re, you know, it’s,

[00:15:11] Conor Brown: seeing

[00:15:13] Dave Jackson: was a point where I was like, really another ad break?

[00:15:16] But I was like, oh, that’s, that’s kind of their strategy is I’m going to annoy you. It’s the YouTube strategy. I’ve had, I’ve been in YouTube premium for so long. I forget what it’s like. And then there are times when I have to switch my hat and be pod pages, YouTube channel. And so I’m on YouTube without premium and I’m just this barrage of hats comes at me.

[00:15:38] And I was like, Oh, I forgot what this is like. So that’s a strategy. It’s not my favorite one, but, you know, it’s, it made me think about it. I was like, well, how much is their monthly thing? Cause I do like this content. I don’t know. Do you, do you have any that you, you know, like, The other thing too is, I think it’s not so much the call to action is, is how and when you do it.

[00:16:02] Cause I forget what show I was listening to and they literally mid sentence through in an ad, like a dynamic thing where somebody missed the thing. And I was like, Oh, that’s just. That’s just jarring.

[00:16:11] Conor Brown: It just sounds insincere. Like when it’s thrown in like that and you’re like, Oh, okay. We were, we were listening to this one thing. It’s about sports. And then all of a sudden there’s an ad in there and it’s for, you know, HelloFresh. And the, the host is reading it, like clearly reading it.

[00:16:27] No emphasis. I love HelloFresh. You’re like, no, you don’t. You love reading the page, right? And you love getting the check at the day. I mean, it’s as simple as that. So I think it’s like, I think it always goes back to, and actually, I think this goes into Billy’s comment, Deal Billy, our buddy, where he says he started a hyper niche fishing show after listening to Dave and Glenn the Geek talk about Glenn’s horse radio show, and he got that bad boy sponsored by episode five, there’s money.

[00:16:53] You just got to have a business plan. So I almost see it as like. People probably go in thinking I’m going to get that HelloFresh deal and then I’m going to be rolling in it. But I bet you what deal Billy, Billy Thorpe did was intentionally, no, I’m not going to go over the big sponsorships that aren’t going to make any sense to me.

[00:17:13] I’m going to go after the sponsorships that make sense to me and my audience that sounds genuine and authentic, and that can be lucrative down the road. So it’s almost like. You know,building a relationship. I just, I always get peeved out when I’m like, this ad is clearly an ad. They don’t actually care about it.

[00:17:31] You

[00:17:31] Jeff Sieh: right. And I, people are talking in, in the comments, I think that the organic way you do it, that, and that’s what we try to do here. I mean, everybody knows that I love Ecamm. I loved them before they sponsored the show. And my, my problem with calls to actions is I don’t want to use a call to action.

[00:17:48] Too much that’ll take away from my sponsor because they’re the ones who are paying for this show to happen. I, and we’ll talk about this later, but when we get to the sponsorship stuff, but it’s very, very important to me. So I think what you said, Dave, is the more organic you can be, the better. Like, just kind of natural.

[00:18:03] Dave Jackson: Yeah, and by, it was, it’s somewhat getting old in the tooth, but Jacobs Media had a report and they said that 70 percent of podcasts are discovered via word of mouth. And so when you’re asking your audience to share, you know, you’re trying to pour gas on that word of mouth. And on one hand, you might be thinking, well, do I really need to do that?

[00:18:23] Well, I watch a lot of YouTubers that still tell me to like, subscribe, and ring the bell. And I go, I know what that button is. It’s been there for years since YouTube has been around. So why are you telling me to like, subscribe, and ring the bell? Oh, because it works. Now, not everybody’s going to do it, but if you can get 3 percent this week, And another 3 percent next week, you know, it, it adds up.

[00:18:43] Conor Brown: So beyond that, Dave, you know, that, that quote’s so true. 70% of podcasts grown, are grown by word of mouth. So beyond just you asking your audience to ask a friend to, to listen to the show. Do you have any other like organic strategies to go about that? I mean, I know forever the biggest thing was always get on another podcast, right?

[00:19:04] Get on a bunch of other podcasts and put yourself out there. But I also think it’s super important which ones you pick because you want to make sure that the audience is going to like you enough to also then go listen to your podcast after listening to you somewhere else. So do you have any other tips around organically growing your show through word of mouth?

[00:19:25] Dave Jackson: Yeah. That’s a good one, uh, is being on other shows. And I am weird that if I have the time, like I I’m going to appear on some entertainment show, like where they talk about, I don’t know, Brad Pitt and Tom Hanks, or, you know, uh,

[00:19:38] Jeff Sieh: Jackson.

[00:19:39] Dave Jackson: Yeah, so I’m not really sure why, but they asked me and I was like, what do I got going on Thursday night?

[00:19:46] Nothing. All right. Well, because to me, it’s all about the relationship, that you never know. It’s, it’s not always who, you know, but who knows you. So there’s that. The other one that I’m finding, I’ve been doing. A fair amount of research on and off about email, pod page just added, they made it easier now to have people subscribe to your newsletter.

[00:20:05] And when I started looking at stats, and I don’t have any off the top of my head, they’re in my note joy, but it’s when you compare, traffic to your website from a newsletter versus social media, hands down, it’s all newsletter. Like hand, like it’s, it’s a Philadelphia versus Kansas city chief spanking kind of. Uh, stat, sorry, uh, all you KC fans. but so that’s one that I’m like, if you don’t have a newsletter, maybe you should. Because that again is people that have signed up that said, I want more of your stuff. And so maybe that person didn’t listen, when it came out and now you’re reminding them, cause that’s a section of my newsletter.

[00:20:43] Conor Brown: Here’s what I’ve been up to. And I have a link to the latest episode and I have a link to follow the show. And so, that would be another one. That’s just, you know, office.

[00:20:52] Dave Jackson: have a newsletter. The more I’m looking into this, I’m like, wow, every podcaster should have a newsletter. because the other thing is if it’s good, It’s so easy, again, to share that with a friend.

[00:21:03] You just forward it to your friend, you know, and have that call to action in there as well. so that’s one that I didn’t quite see until I started looking at the stats. And I was like, oh, that is true. We’re, we have a mouse in our hand when we click on read. And then, you know, it’s really easy to share.

[00:21:18] So that would be one. And in a nutshell, I would say growing your show comes down to a knowing who your audience is, and then go to where they are. So I spent a lot of time in Reddit in their podcast stuff. I spent a lot of time in podcast movements, Facebook group, and all these other groups go there. And it’s not always there to just spew my knowledge.

[00:21:42] A lot of times I’m there to listen, because how do I know if my audience You know, once this topic, well, if I see enough people ask the same question in a Reddit group, I’m like, okay, that needs to be an episode. So go to where they are and then make friends with them. In the back of the day, like literally 2006, this is before Facebook.I was in a forum and back then kids, there were, you know, PHP BB or something, there’s this forum and it was for X radio DJs. And I swear I walked in and it was like, Oh, I was like, Oh, these are my people. And I was, and I literally walked in and I said, Hey, I’m Dave Jackson. I can get you back on the air.

[00:22:22] Not only back on the air, but in front of a global audience. Like every, I was like, John Belushi, come on, let’s do it. And they, they banned me in 20 minutes and kicked me out of the forum. Why? Because I didn’t make friends with anybody. Cause if you just come in and pitch your stuff, That’s called spam boys and girls.

[00:22:40] And, uh, I don’t know who this guy is, but get him out of here. So who is my audience? Go to where they are, make friends with them, and then tell them about your show. And it could be as simple again as, oh yeah, I just talked about that in my latest episode of my podcast where people go, you have a podcast.

[00:22:57] And then you’re like, Oh yeah, it’s right here. And if you’re in an elevator and you feel so moved or someplace where you’re actually face to face, have them pull out their phone and, and go, Oh yeah, where’s your phone? What do you listen to podcasts in? And just grab their phone and subscribe. It’s like, you know, that you could, that’s a little forward, but I’ve heard of people doing that and like, well, that’s one way to get a follower.

[00:23:20] Conor Brown: Well, one thing that we, we did, I think Jeff has it, is the dot card in your wallet, right? Do you have one of those? I have one of those. So it’s basically a business card, but you tap it to the back of their phone and it opens up your little page there and you can add in a subscribe to podcast button, Right

[00:23:35] Dave Jackson: Yeah, and that actually works better. I have a QR code on the back of my business card, but the dot card, it’s one less step because now you, you have to open up your phone and find your, your camera and then wait, hold, hold it. Wait. Oh, wait, let me move it. Okay. It’s a little right there. Okay, good. Okay. You know, where the dot card, you just kind of tap their phone and off you go.

[00:23:55] Jeff Sieh: The cool thing I use Link, which is LINQ, it’s a, or it’s a weird one, but I actually have, I, when I go to conferences, I change out my, uh, iWatch band that has the, the thing built into it, and it has a QR code on the other side. So if they’re the NFC or whatever it is, the thing doesn’t work. I can give ’em the QR code.

[00:24:12] That works really, really good. The one it’s cool to be like, how did you do that? In other words, it’s just, it’s always there with you. So very, very cool. one of the things I did want to ask you, and we kind of got into it, but I want to get really, really practical on this because, one, I thought it was just brilliant what you said at the beginning that, you know, don’t worry so much about the equipment.

[00:24:31] But instead of always thinking about the equipment to improve, think of the content that you can, you know, 1 percent better each time you go live with what you are doing, like the content you’re putting out in front of people. What are some other little things that most podcasters aren’t willing to do that can make a big difference in building a loyal audience?

[00:24:50] Dave Jackson: Yeah, the one, not to beat a dead horse, but why not? It’s dead. It doesn’t care. Um, is again, get some feedback, because I hear, I, I’m, yeah, I gave you an example of where I had my own low hanging fruit. There’s that, but there are other things that just like, I looked and I, it wasn’t again, a huge number, but I have a, tracking link in my signature.

[00:25:13] So when it’s like, you know, Dave Jackson, when you click on the link that says schoolofpodcasting. com, That gets tracked in my stats that, Oh, that came from my signature. And I’m surprised at how many people, you know, send me an email and it just says the name of their show without a link to their, their website.

[00:25:28] Cause there are times when you’re like, wait, what? you know, don’t cook bacon naked. I got to click on that. And so, uh, which is a show, you know, put a link there. There’s just all sorts of things when it comes to growing your audience. Make sure your friends and family have your business card.

[00:25:44] back in the day I used to design websites, I would tell people, I can make a very basic website for you. This is back in the days of front page, when we would chisel websites out of stone. and my sister in law’s a teacher, and she ran into all sorts of people, And back then I was using that income to pay for college and that was just one of my multiple streams of income was building basic websites for people.

[00:26:09] And so make sure your family knows. Now that doesn’t mean you’re expecting them to listen to your podcast because if you’re doing a show about, you know, whatever underwater basket weaving and You know, your cousin isn’t into that, but you know, just hand them a business card of nothing else. Just even though, you know, like if you go, Oh, here’s my business card, you know, they’re going to throw that away, but maybe they’ll remember your website or something like that, because here again, you have a team of people that want to see you succeed.

[00:26:38] And I I’m amazed that everybody just complains that they don’t listen. And I’m like, yeah, they’re not your target audience. You know, so get everybody you know, to talk about your show. And then in terms of launching, so many people, just kind of, they pick a day and they’re like, Okay, well, first of all, don’t pick your day until, of course, you’ve gotten feedback, you’ve got everything set, you’re already, go ahead and list your show in Apple and Spotify and Amazon and iHeart and all those places, and then pick a day when you’re going to let everybody know, hey, we’re over there.

[00:27:11] Because, that line that Jeff mentioned about, you know, if, for those of you that remember phone books, I said, it doesn’t make you, you know, famous. Well, same thing, putting yourself in Apple, isn’t going to make you famous until you say, Hey, everybody, I’m an Apple, go over and tell them not on the 17th, not on the 19th, but on the 18th, I want everybody that I know to go and subscribe to this show and, you know, and then have a page on your website.

[00:27:38] That’s another one. That working at Libsyn, I hear so many people in so many episodes go, find me wherever you find your podcasts. Well, first things first, why is your podcast lost? Why do they have to find it? It’s, it’s on your website. And then like pod page makes a page. It’s yourwebsite. com slash follow.

[00:27:57] And when you go there, there’s Apple and Google and Spotify and all that other stuff. Don’t send them to episodes. fm. That’s not your brand. Send them to something on your website that they can remember. And then if they like it, maybe they’ll share that, you know, that page with their friends and just make it easy to consume.

[00:28:14] Same thing with listening to your show. I was, believe it or not, I went to the mall. We still have one where I live and I went to the mall over the weekend. And there was that person that as you walk by, they have a little piece of a chicken sandwich, hoping you’ll buy one behind you. And I was like, all right, cool. I’ll take some chicken. And it did. It made me want to go buy a sandwich. Well, you go to their website and they’ve got maybe a list of their episodes, but then you click on the episode and then it’s, oh, wait, I got to click again. And oh, there’s finally a play button. I’m like, no, make it like go to website, click play, because that’s the chicken.

[00:28:49] That’s going to get them to buy the sandwich and the sandwich hopefully is clicking that follow button. subscribe, whatever you want to call it so that they’re now tuned in. there’s a, um, I forget the report I just read. Oh, it was, YouTube came out with a thing about why people watch. And they said, when somebody clicks subscribe, it’s a personal connection.

[00:29:09] Like I am, I’m committing to, since it’s on Valentine’s day, I commit to you. I am, you are now one of my shows that, uh, YouTube will have a hard time showing me what I want. That’s a whole other thing, but I am subscribing to your channel. And, it’s the same thing with a podcast. When you can get them to follow, they’re like, yes, you’re good enough to follow.

[00:29:30] You know, for those of us that watch Seinfeld, you are sponge worthy, right? It’s, it’s, it’s. It’s a connection that, you know, they’re just like, yeah, you’re, this is, you’re one of my shows now. Cause I don’t know about you guys. I keep adding more shows and yet there are still only 24 hours in a day. And so when I go to my queue now, I just recently started using pocketcast cause it has a phenomenal bookmark feature.

[00:29:53] And I go into my queue and it’s like, well, that’s enough to, I could listen to that probably till the end of the year and not get through all my episodes, but, I’m there.

[00:30:01] Conor Brown: yeah, I feel like I have to start saying I’m, I’m currently not taking any show requests at this moment. Please, no recommendations. My queue is full with all that.

[00:30:10] Jeff Sieh: One of the things I wanted to just point, you know, for example, on this show, and you have the same thing on your Saturday show, the live show, and one of the reasons I love doing live slash podcasting in that way, is that I know when people aren’t there. Like, Gary Stockton, he’s here almost every week.

[00:30:24] When he’s not, I’m like, is Gary okay? Like, because you have built this relationship and that’s why you can’t just like scattershot podcasts or, you know, live video. Your show is every, every Saturday. I know at nine 30, even if I don’t get a notification or an email or whatever. You’re there. And the same thing with this show.

[00:30:44] Like, I won’t move my show for a guest because I just, my audience shows up at this time. And so doing those little things, like, even things that, you know, technically it’s hard to scale, but just being consistent, I think, is a way to, to really move your podcast up in people’s, you know, ability to consume it, I guess.

[00:31:03] Dave Jackson: Well, anytime you ever watch TV and it’s like, you know, whatever, there’s a really horrible show right now called going Dutch with, um, Dennis Leary. And I love Dennis Leary, but the show is just. Not my jam. And I expect any time now to see them go now on Thursdays or Tuesdays, or it’s, it’s usually a sign where it’s like, this isn’t working.

[00:31:24] It’s it’s the network buying a microphone when they should just fix the show. They’re like, you know, what’s wrong with this? We’re up against this. We need to move to Tuesday. And then they put it over there and they’re like, maybe. Saturday at, you know, 10th is, yeah. So, yeah, it’s just one of those things where,

[00:31:40] Jeff Sieh: Consistency is important. Yeah.

[00:31:42] Dave Jackson: yeah,

[00:31:42] consistency.

[00:31:43] Conor Brown: consistency is important. I think, you know, if you want to grow your audience, it’s probably, you know, consistency, content, quality. These are all factors in, in you attracting more people, you and growing your audience. But, you know, Dave, you’ve worked with. You know, thousands of podcasters, whether to help them start their podcast or along their podcasting journey.

[00:32:05] What do you find are some common mistakes that, that hold people back, that hold podcasters back from effectively growing their audience with their shows?

[00:32:16] Dave Jackson: It’s, it goes back to that. I don’t want to be salesy kind of thing. There’s that, in some cases it’s our good friend imposter syndrome. That, that, you know, cause I, I saw somebody this week and they had podcasted a year and they were like, I’m hanging this up. It’s a dud. It doesn’t work. And I kind of was like, Hey, can you like, what were you looking to do here?

[00:32:40] What was the deal? Why? I’m always interested to see why people quit. Cause that might’ve been avoidable. And this person is a voiceover artist. and they had basically put this out. It wasn’t really, the show wasn’t, it might’ve been about storytelling or something of that nature. I’d have to go back and look.

[00:32:58] But it was basically, I’m going to kind of coin this now, it’s waiting and whining. And that is, they put it out there, They didn’t really promote it. And he actually said, I was waiting to be discovered. And I was like, for every Justin Bieber there is on YouTube, there’s another, you know, 20 million there that are all singing their favorite cover tunes going, I’m here, come find me.

[00:33:22] And I’m like, you got to go to your audience. You can’t wait to be discovered. And so I just interviewed Danny Pena from Gamer Tag Radio and Danny, back when you would line up at midnight to get the new game, cause it came on a cartridge. Would go with business cards because that’s where his audience was.

[00:33:39] He’d do interviews on cassettes and, and then convert that to a podcast. Because people want to hear themselves on the show. So he knew what they wanted. You know, you went to them, promoted it, that whole nine yards. So it, you got to get out of your seat. You can’t just go, well, I put it out there and Hey, I’m in Apple.

[00:34:00] I’m available worldwide. But if nobody knows you exist, you know, you got to let people know.

[00:34:07] And, so that seems to stop them. I think there are a lot of people like, because the, really good shows make it look easy. Right, I’m just going to talk to my friends and money’s going to fall from heaven and I’m like, hmm, you know, there’s, yes, podcasting is a conversation, but it’s a conversation with the boring parts removed, unless you’re Joe Rogan, and step one of, having a show like Joe Rogan is be Joe Rogan, and you’re not, so let’s abandon that strategy, you know, but I think that’s part of it is, It’s got to resonate with your audience.

[00:34:39] in that YouTube study, they talked a lot about relevancy and that’s where, yes, we want to be consistent because when you’re consistent, you become part of their schedule. And that is huge when, I have people like, Oh, you’re with me every Monday on the way to the feed store. And I’m like, okay, that’s cool.

[00:34:55] But that’s part of it. It’s Friday. You know what I’m doing tonight? This is how I rock Valentine’s day. I’m going grocery shopping at Walmart. and be listening to podcasting 2.0 cause they typically publish a show. And by Friday night, it’s, there. And that’s my little routine. So when you become part of their routine, cause they didn’t put out an episode last week, I was so lost in Walmart.

[00:35:15] I was like, I don’t know what to do.

[00:35:18] Somebody talk about namespace data, you know, so, that’s a huge thing. So, but, on the other hand, I’ve had people, because in my book it says, and people really don’t like this stat, I go, it usually takes about three years to build an audience. And they’re like, not six weeks?

[00:35:36] I’m like, no, like three years. And I say, and so I’ll have somebody like, hey, I’ve published every week for three weeks. I’ve been consistent. Then I might. Okay, so that is important, but you also want to be consistent in content. Because, I don’t know about you, when I’m reading a book, that first chapter is always kind of boring, uh, you know, some story, and then the second one, like, and you’re kind of like, wait, where’s the, where’s the action steps?

[00:36:01] I read a lot of non fiction, and if you’re not into, like, something, or I’m like, ooh, I can’t wait to tell somebody the strategy, by chapter three, there’s a good chance I’m not gonna make it to chapter four. So, You’re allowed to have a clunker every now and then, not every chapter is highlighted, but if you don’t have something that resonates with the audience, it’s just not going to grow.

[00:36:22] Jeff Sieh: Ralph even said, uh, when he launched his show, he committed to doing it daily for three years, which is a lot, but, that’s what he thinks, because he read your book, and that’s what, you know, three years, one of the things I do want to go really quickly to this next section of about pricing and sponsorships, because I know a lot of people think about this, and it’s Valentine’s Day, so we’re going to have some tough 10%

[00:36:46] A podcasters get enough downloads per episode to warrant a sponsor. So what’s the biggest misconception about sponsorships? And what should smaller podcasts focus on instead?

[00:36:59] Dave Jackson: Yeah, so I always like to flip that too, because when you go less than 10%, people hear 10 percent and they go, oh, so I would, you know, but that means 90 percent of them don’t. Like it’s, it’s a slim chance. and we’re talking about the Casper mattresses and the better helps and things like that. So if you don’t like I, my school of podcasting show, I used to have sponsors.

[00:37:20] I don’t anymore because I’m my sponsor and that works much better. But I had, oh, the red box people starts with an E, but they make interfaces. I’ve had microphones that have sponsored the show. Um,

[00:37:34] Jeff Sieh: is it Elgato?

[00:37:36] Dave Jackson: Nope, it’s event. Nope, that’s Eventbrite. It’s Dan is the rep. It’s a really solid red box.

[00:37:43] It’s, uh,

[00:37:44] but anyway, I had an interface. So things like that. I had one guy that was an editor. but I’ve also had the thing with sponsorships is you have to make sure again, it resonates. So I had a company that wanted to sponsor the show. And it was a thing where it would alert you.

[00:38:00] When your website went down, it would say, Hey, your, your website’s down. You should probably go look at it. And I said, yeah, I’m not gonna like, I appreciate the offer to sponsor the show, but I just don’t think that’s a good fit. And he goes, well, wait, every, every podcaster has a website. And I go, yeah, but I’ve never had anyone ever say, do you know of a service that would let me know if my website went down?

[00:38:20] You know? And I was like, it just, it doesn’t. If it doesn’t fit like a glove, that’s not gonna really work for me. So, but I, I have nowhere near the 10, 000 downloads to, you know, get a big sponsor. that’s really going to drive me nuts. I keep

[00:38:35] Jeff Sieh: Focus Right. It’s

[00:38:37] Dave Jackson: Focusrite. Thank you very much.

[00:38:39] Jeff Sieh: Chris Stone, uh, gave us that one. Mr. Uh, podcasting and video editor. Yeah.

[00:38:43] Dave Jackson: yeah. So Focusrite was a sponsor, but it’s one of those things where, you know, I didn’t have the magic number, but I walked in. This is how hard I had to work for the sponsorship. I walked into, I think it was podcast movement. It was the first time I met Dan from Focusrite. And he saw my badge.

[00:39:01] He’s like, you’re Dave Jackson. And I go, yeah. And he goes, I want to give you money. And I was like, nice to meet you too.

[00:39:07] Jeff Sieh: Great way to introduce yourself. Yeah.

[00:39:08] Dave Jackson: Yeah. So he knew I had his target audience. And so that’s really goes back to knowing who your audience is. And then sometimes. You can kind of manufacture sponsors, like I did a, it doesn’t show it, but I used to do a weight loss show.

[00:39:22] Cause I thought if I announced my weight every week that my weight would go down and it, it did in, in till it didn’t. And then it went back up. Like I would lose, I would lose weight. And then I go, Oh, wait a minute. It’s right here. I didn’t lose it. but I found an app called chronometer. And it’s cheaper than my fitness pal and I used it and I liked it.

[00:39:41] And they had, I think I make it, I don’t know, 2, maybe a dollar 50. If somebody downloads this app, you know, and I’m not going to retire on that money. But you know, when I first started talking about it, I think my first check was like 119 bucks. Well, that’s one product. What if I had another product and another product?

[00:40:00] So, you know, you can do that sometimes, even though if you’re like, well, I’ve only got, you know, 400 people listening. Okay, well then go find an affiliate. Program. And in that case, it was one that I used and I knew, and it fit the audience and off you go, but, you know, and that’s, you also have to remember that when you first start off, you’re going to, you know, like the goal is, can I make this thing break even not so much, can it make my mortgage payment,

[00:40:26] but I was amazed.

[00:40:28] Jeff Sieh: well, will tell you, Billy Thorpe, you know, those nickels and dimes stack up, like when you’re doing Amazon affiliates and stuff like, and Chris Stone and Jim Fuse introduced me to the Amazon program and that I am very thankful for. I guess that that works. So,

[00:40:43] Dave Jackson: Well, and also if you have a really nice show. That’s where you get in the headset of like, Oh, I have a small audience. Oh no. But if, let’s say you had a product for triathletes, whatever it was, and you did a show for triathletes, so this is the biking, swimming, running thing, right? Well, okay. Well, I could advertise.

[00:41:02] So I, I have a product for triathletes. I could advertise and, you know, shape magazine and men’s health and women’s health and all these other ones. And what percentage of those people. Our triathletes, probably a small percentage. So here you are with your little 250 downloads an episode show, but they’re all triathletes.

[00:41:21] Well, it’s probably much more efficient to just advertise there where everybody that listened needs my product versus, well, let’s do shotgun and hit markets and, you know, websites or whatever. And so that’s where you can actually charge more. In fact, I think most people don’t charge enough for their sponsorships.

[00:41:38] One of the things that’s, That kind of drove me nuts is I keep hearing where people, the, the, that, that buy media, right? That buy ads came from radio and they’re used to radio or even worse, they’re used to Facebook because Facebook can tell you what my audience ate for breakfast last Tuesday when it was raining.

[00:41:58] Well, you’re not going to get that kind of detail from podcasting, but if you listen to. You know, Edison Research or Tom over at Sounds Profitable, Tom and Brian. They’re just like, look, it, this outsells everything. This is the best strategy. And so when I hear that, and then, I don’t know what was behind it, but Libsyn used to say what the average CPM was, and then it started going down and they don’t announce it anymore.

[00:42:24] And I’m like, that’s, that’s interesting. So that’s where, you know, if you have a really niche audience, Like, no, no, you actually want to charge probably more because it’s hard to get that particular group of people to pay attention to their product.

[00:42:38] Conor Brown: So how do you go about that, Dave? You have a smaller podcast, the triathlete comes to you and says, your audience is perfect. Or the other side, you see a product that’s going to be perfect to advertise on your show because it is so specific. You don’t have a whole lot of downloads. You’re in that, you know, lower range.

[00:42:58] How do you actually go about approaching these sponsors and setting your value and setting your rates when you do have lower downloads? And what does that pricing like look like?

[00:43:10] Dave Jackson: Yeah, one of the things you can do is, and I’m not sure how much longer this is going to be helpful, but like, Glenn, we talked about Glenn the Geek, he went to, like, the top horse magazine. So, Just the word magazine might lose people, but there were, there were pages in the back with the little itty bitty ads because the people that are doing a full page ad, they don’t want to talk to you yet, but he’d go to the little itty bitty ads and then he called the magazine and said, Hey, I’m thinking of sponsoring, you know, in the back, what, what are those ads cost?

[00:43:43] And they were like, Oh, it’s X amount of money. And he’s like, okay, great. Then he called the people who are advertising in the back. Cause they have a budget. And And said, Oh, yeah, I saw your ad in, you know, Horse Weekly or whatever it was. I run the Horse Radio Network. We kind of have your audience over here.

[00:44:00] And then he just undercut whatever it was. so that’s one strategy. Find out what other people, you know, see if, other companies like theirs and see if you can find where they’re advertising, that would be one. And then the other one I kind of do, I talk about this in the game and I got this from Jessica Coverman.

[00:44:17] And she just was like, well, how much do you think you should charge? And I’m like, well, this much. And she’s like, well, that’s not enough. Would it be? And it was like, well, cause the whole time I’m like, well, I want to make sure the advertiser gets return on investment. And there came a, there came a time when I just got so high that I was like, wait, that’s, that’s too much.

[00:44:34] There’s no way they’re going to get their return on investment. and then I was like, great, okay, let’s back it down a little bit. But nine times out of 10, we’re not charging enough. I was in a, uh, mastermind with some people from Mighty Networks and they were talking about this and it was funny cause we, we were like, oh, we all undercharged, we don’t recognize our own value and then somebody else said, well, I’m thinking of doing whatever it was, this mastermind, and they’re like, well, what are you going to charge?

[00:45:00] And the guy said, 5 a month. And she goes, I rest my case. She’s like, what, you know, and it’s just, you, you come into a perception of, well, that can’t be any good. Cause. It’s only X amount of money. So it’s, there is no kind of, you know, this is the price where you should start. Cause if it’s the pygmy pony show, and you have a product for pygmy ponies, like you can charge a lot for that, even though you have a really small audience, where if it’s a really.

[00:45:26] Wide thing. You know, it kind of depends, but in the end, I always tell people, whatever you’re charging, it’s probably not enough.

[00:45:32] Conor Brown: we

[00:45:34] Jeff Sieh: So, you also wrote in your book, you know, if, if I could get 50 percent of, this is what people always say, if I could get 50 percent of my audience to give me five dollars a month, That would be 250 a month. And you said, while the math is true, the reality is a fairy tale. so what’s, what’s a more realistic way, and you’ve talked about some of them to approach monetization through listener support, like we’ve talked about getting a sponsor, but I really want to kind of go into like, Because you talk about Patreon a lot in your book, and I know like our friend Lou Mangiello, he does even has his own live events.

[00:46:08] he also has his masterminds. So, what are some other ways that might be more realistic than, you know, trying to, you know, figure out these numbers of just someone to sponsor you?

[00:46:18] Dave Jackson: Yeah. Because we think we’re gonna get 50%. And then you’re like, well, you’re, you’re not gonna get 50. ’cause I remember I thought that, I was like, wow, if I could get, you know, 50% to gimme five bucks. Wow. You know? And it, they’re not gonna, it’s not 50, it’s not 20, it’s not 10. In fact, I was at. I got asked to go to a, you’ve ever seen those tiny desk concerts when we’re in Washington, DC, I got to go to a tiny desk concert and it just so happened.

[00:46:43] I’m sitting next to the guy that runs NPR plus, which is their. You know, bonus content kind of thing. And I looked at him and I said, Oh, I don’t want to get in your wallet. I said, but like, I tell people 3 percent teachable, the, um, you know, the people that do courses and stuff, they, they say 2%, I go, what’s your typical, you know, people that, that join based on your audience?

[00:47:06] And he said, one. And I was like, holy cow. Cause I remember Radio Lab is a really popular show and they were trying to, they did like a fundraiser. And they were trying to get up to 1%. So this doesn’t mean that crowdfunding and Patreon is a bad idea. It just means it’s one stream of income. It may not be the stream of income.

[00:47:28] So, so keep that in mind, with that, but other streams of income, you know, you could do whatever your, You know, whatever your expertise is, you could do, uh, you could do it in Loom. Hey, I’m having a meeting, you know, that would be very careful. I’ve learned the hard way. Do not make Loom video addresses public or be re or be ready to kick people out.

[00:47:50] That was not fun. That happened to me, but you could, uh, you could upgrade to Loom to have their webinar, option for a month, run a webinar, record it. And then turn around and sell it. And there’s all sorts of different places where you can sell it, whether it’s Gumroad or, you know, there’s all these places where you can sell, uh, Pay, HipPay or HipPayHip, one of the two.

[00:48:13] There’s a bunch of places where you can sell digital product. Thrivecart. Yeah. So there’s all sorts of places like that. And, you know, so sell, cause selling your own stuff by far is the number one, most profitable way to do that. And it, it works because. When you are consistent, you’re seen as reliable.

[00:48:31] When you give them great content, they like you because, Hey, that was really, really helpful. And when you can share the occasional personal story to make a point, well, now they feel like they know you. So there’s the whole no, like, and trust. So when you say, Hey, I’ve got a new book, I’ve got this new course, I’ve got this new, whatever, you know, then they’re much more likely to open up their wallets and, and set it your way.

[00:48:53] So yeah, whether it’s affiliates selling your own stuff, you know, Donations, you know, just put a PayPal button on there, but realize you have to tell people there’s a PayPal button there, you know, so donations and crowdfunding, the one that really kind of goes unmentioned because it’s invisible is, I mentioned Danny Pena earlier,

[00:49:14] your podcast, you build a relationship with your audience and the audience leads to opportunities and the opportunities, Help you get in front of more people who don’t know your show, but they do now and they start listening it, which leads to more relationships.

[00:49:30] Which leads to more opportunities, which leads to more relationships and some of those opportunities pay. And so, uh, you know, a lot of times I will end up speaking for free, but there are times when I get paid and there are other times when I get paid really nicely and I’m like, wow, I just did, you know, an hour and a half and like, okay, You know, we’re eating steak tonight, kids, you know, that kind of stuff.

[00:49:54] So there are a lot of different ways to, to monetize. And what I see is people like, Oh, I’m going to start a podcast and get ads. And I’m like, Hmm, you know, there was a kit convert kit now kit as a, um, a resource on their website of what content creators were, were doing in 2024. And the first one is not ads.

[00:50:13] Ads was like number four. It was all selling your own product and service.

[00:50:17] Conor Brown: I think that’s a big thing, too, because, you know, You know, again, Mangello talks about this before, about how he, he has sold things right to his audience and then polled his audience and found out that like 75 percent of his audience has bought something from him at some point in time. It might be a product, it might be a service, it might be Patreon, right?

[00:50:37] It might be a donation to the charity that, that he sponsors, right? But then you can take that info and you can go to sponsors and say, I’ve already conditioned my audience to buy stuff from me. Not only have I conditioned them to it, they’re doing it. They’re doing it in, in droves. So I almost wonder if that’s kind of the play.

[00:50:55] Like you start to sell something that you own first, prove your worth, and then you can make a case to sponsors. But along that same line, Dave, how do you pitch your worth and pitch your value to your audience? to sponsors when you do cast aside the download numbers. How do you show this is going to be beneficial to you?

[00:51:17] Like you were saying, how do you show you’re going to make ROI for, for the sponsors?

[00:51:22] Dave Jackson: Yeah. The first thing is you take a picture of yourself with a product. So, you know, if I’m trying to get Mike Michalowicz on the show, Mike, Hey Mike, I’m reading your book. I really, really like it. And so that’s proof, right. And that, Hey, I actually did the work and I’ve done this. And if you can talk about it, you know, on page 76, you mentioned this.

[00:51:40] And I really think you’d be a great fit for my audience. and if you’d like to sponsor the, the, you know, the show, and this is where you do the old, door number one, door number two, door number three, well, as long as they pick a door, you’re gonna win. So you’re like, it’s, it’s X amount of money to sponsor the show.

[00:51:58] It’s X amount of money to have you mentioned on the website. It’s X amount of money to have you mentioned in the newsletter, but Hey, what do you know right now? You can get all three for the low, low price of such and such. And there’s only a three month minimum. And there are other things you can do.

[00:52:12] Some people will, will cut a deal. Like I just right now I’m working with a coach and how did he get me to sign up? The first two months were at a discount. Let’s see how it works. And then he, I know month three, like this is going to go up. So some people will do that. They’ll give a discount kind of like, Hey, let’s test the waters.

[00:52:27] You do have to let them know that the person’s like, I want to advertise on one episode. Complete waste of time. Just, you know, you need to hear that over and over and over. and then you can, you know, come up in Canva or something, make some cute little press kit that shows, you know, this is where if you haven’t done it already, and of course, it’s built in the pod page, uh, you can do an audience survey and get their age and their, you know, what their average income is and things like that, depending on what the sponsor wants.

[00:52:54] But most of them want to know who’s your audience, what kind of income do they have, that, those kinds of things. And you can say, here’s who’s listening. Look, it’s, it’s primarily, you know, it’s 50, 50 men and women. So if your product is for everyone, my audience is everyone, that type of thing. And so, because they want to know who who’s, who’s listening to this, because they have a target audience, just like you have a target audience for your podcast.

[00:53:17] And then another thing, if you’ve watched, Shark Tank, You could always ask them, well, what’s your, you know, cost of acquisition? Cause we love Mr. Wonderful. And he always asked that they’re basically just asking how much does it take to get a customer? And then you’re like, okay, now I know what their budget is.

[00:53:32] And so if you sit there and do the math and like, okay, so if I was brilliant, I could get 5 percent of my audience and I’ve got X amount of people, they are used to paying this, let’s do this number. So kind of reverse engineering.

[00:53:44] Jeff Sieh: You know what’s kind of funny though is a lot of companies when I ask you know, your cost for acquisition? They don’t know.

[00:53:49] Like, it is amazing how many people, how many companies do not know that, and it’s kind of scary. So,

[00:53:54] Dave Jackson: Yeah. Joe, um, Joe Salsihai from Stacking Benjamin says he was really mad because he would, he kept quoting sponsorships and people would just go, yes. And as much, and he’s like, he goes, I see it. So the next person I would finally move it up. And the next sponsor would go, okay. He goes, it took like three or four times.

[00:54:12] They just keep moving up till finally somebody said, ah, and he’s like, oh man, I’ve been leaving money on the table this whole time. So again, undercharging for your value.

[00:54:21] Jeff Sieh: So, uh, we are at the end. Gosh, this flew by, Dave. Thank you so much for being here. But, uh, Ralph even says it’s best to pimp your own stuff. And that’s a great thing, too. Like, you know, we talk, we talk about it. Have a product and do it. you know, and we talk about saying things over and over and over.

[00:54:35] And I do want to say thank you for, Ecamm for sponsoring this show. You can find out more at ecamm. com. So, Jeff Sieh, 15 percent for using code Jeff15. before we wrap up Dave. I want to, I want you to pimp your stuff. Like Ralph said, tell everybody where they can find the amazing Dave Jackson.

[00:54:51] Your book, your school of podcasting, all the great things that are Dave.

[00:54:56] Dave Jackson: Yeah. If you want the book, go to profitfromyourpodcast. com slash book now available as an audio book as well. It’s not in audible yet because audible, it’s a great place to make money. And if you’re lucky, they’ll let you keep this much, like just a little baby crumb. And I was like, hold on, I’m going to sell this myself first.

[00:55:12] So you can listen to the audio book via an app there or on the website. And if you, uh, are looking to plan, launch or grow, or if you want to monetize your show, go Schoolofpodcasting. com, uh, use the coupon code LISTENER and actually use the coupon code JEFF, that’s J E F F, and that’ll save you on your monthly or yearly subscription, and of course it comes with a 30 day money back guarantee.

[00:55:35] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And make sure you go over to, uh, go to YouTube. I think it’s a school of podcasting. where you can watch the live show on Saturdays at 9 30. great, great hosts, great conversation. A lot of stuff happens in the chat room. If you want to see

[00:55:49] somebody who, who knows how to activate his community, you need to go check that out because it is really, really great.

[00:55:55] I, I enjoy it. Like I, it’s one of those things that’s now on my, Saturdays where I just go and hang out and get to talk to people like Gary and Ralph and a bunch of other people who are there. But also, last but not least, the amazing, unsinkable, Connor Brown. where can they find out more about the amazing, unsinkable Connor Brown?

[00:56:12] Uh, vacationkingdoms. com or at vacationkingdoms across the social medias. It’s probably cold where you are. It’s also Valentine’s Day. Why don’t you treat your loved one to a vacation? A cruise sounds pretty nice. Gentlemen,

[00:56:27] this has been

[00:56:28] Conor Brown: awesome,

[00:56:28] Dave Jackson: Can, can I do one more tip

[00:56:31] of Valentine’s Day? When you, when you take your special someone, Out to dinner tonight, leave the phone in the car. I’m here to tell you that will score you points.

[00:56:43] Jeff Sieh: yes, yes. Very, very true. Leave it in the car.

[00:56:47] Conor Brown: Taking notes.

[00:56:48] Jeff Sieh: Taking notes, yeah, and, and, look at them in the eye. That always helps, too. anyway, thanks so much, you guys. Thank you to Ralph, Deal Billy, Dustin Stout, everybody who shows up. Rich, everybody who shows up live for this show every week. The amazing, Dealcasters, Castahead, Chris Stone.

[00:57:04] All of you guys, thank you so much for watching and participating in the show. Thank you, Dave, for being here. Thank you to our sponsor, Ecamm. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye, everybody.