Do you want to get started with live video?

Do you wish to use live video to attract new clients and leads for your company?

In this episode of Social Media News Live, we’ll look at how to optimize the new LinkedIn Live Video Events, live shopping trends, discover ways that live video can be a repurposing engine, and how live video will play into Zuckerberg’s Metaverse.

Join us as our special guest,  Ian Anderson Gray provides his strategies and tactics for live video!


This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Welcome to Social Media News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not…

[00:00:03] Erik Fisher: And I’m Erik Fisher, and this is the show that keeps you up-to-date on what’s happening in the world of social media.

[00:00:10] Jeff Sieh: In today’s episode of Social Media News Live, we’ll look at how to optimize the new LinkedIn live video events, explore trends in Live, shopping, and learn how live video may be used in as a repurposing engine, which is one of Ian and I’s favorite things to do. But we’re also going to be talking about how Live video will play into Zuckerberg, vision of the metaverse.

[00:00:32] Yeah, we’re going to be talking about that. And so glad that you’re here with us today, excited to once again, talk to you as always,

[00:00:41] Ian Anderson Gray: and I’ll ask, I’m excited to be here. I’m normally in the comments posting. Encouraging sarcastic comments and things. So it’s great to be here in person. That’s right.

[00:00:52] Jeff Sieh: Speaking of somebody who was here, he was gone last week and we missed you. Gary is in the comments. He goes, Hey, you beautiful people. Good morning. Good morning to you, Gary Stockton. Beautiful to see you here as always. Thank you for watching over on YouTube. So I wanted to introduce my pal, Ian, if you don’t know who Ian Anderson gray is, he is the founder of the confident Live marketing academy.

[00:01:13] And is the. Of the confident Live marketing podcast. He helps entrepreneurs to level up their impact authority and profits by using live video competently. He is the founder of seriously Social, a blog focused on live video and social media tools. He’s an international speaker, he’s a trainer, a teacher consultant.

[00:01:34] He has a passion for making the technobabble of live video and social media marketing. Easy to understand as well as being a geek. The husband, a dad to two kids. Ian is also a professional singer. Fiver checked out his shows you’ll you’ll know that, and he lives near Manchester in the United Kingdom in thank you so much.

[00:01:55] Ian Anderson Gray: Awesome. Great to be here. I’m just thinking of the whole international speaker thing. It feels like I shouldn’t be saying that at the moment, because I can’t go anywhere.

[00:02:04] Jeff Sieh: International could be like your living room. We’ll just call it that. So you’re in the

[00:02:08] Erik Fisher: UK and you’re in the UK right now and we’ve got people in another country, including us watching you speak.

[00:02:15] So it works. Yeah. You’re not lying. Okay. Yeah. And I’ve seen you and I’ve seen you, you and I have known each other for years now, and I’ve known you doing live video the entire time. I’m curious. What is your view? And what have you seen in terms of like live video changes since when you started,

What’s Changing in the Live Video Landscape?

[00:02:38] Ian Anderson Gray: it’s just becomes so much easier when I started I mean, when I officially started, it was 2016.

[00:02:44] There’s been live video around before that. You could argue. Back in the noughties live videos around, but in a back in 2016, you need to fiddle around with, I’m going to use some technical words here, RTMP and stream keys and OBS studio and all this kind of stuff. And if you’ve, I’ve already your brain is gone to mush.

[00:03:04] You don’t need to worry anymore because it’s so much easier to use live video and more more platforms, LinkedIn live has become a thing and it’s Periscope was a thing and it’s died and now we’ve got Twitter live. So it’s a lot easier. It’s also, I think because of the pandemic, a lot of people have jumped into the deep end.

[00:03:25] They’ve been thinking about going live for ages and ages. And then they realized they had no choice. They had to embrace live video in 2020. So a lot more people are using it. And a lot of the tools out there are. Improve with new features and exciting things as well. So it’s a great time to embrace live video.

[00:03:45] People have been saying, this is the year of live video. And I S I, I think 20 19 20 18 was the year of live video, but 2021 is an exciting year for live video. There’s so much.

[00:03:58] Jeff Sieh: Yes, I totally agree. And one of the things that you know, both Ian and I and Eric Love about live video is the ability to have a community and talk to people across the globe.

[00:04:08] And we have some amazing people in the comments I want to give a shout out to Sabrina is here she goes, hello friends. And she usually says, hello, this is Sabrina. I say, hello to me, this is Jeff. So I feel a little weird today, ENT or Sabrina’s, you’re doing new things. I don’t know what’s going on. And so, um, a guard guarantee says you’re a worldwide keynote speaker.

[00:04:28] How about that? Yeah, everybody knows him, but Mike Alton has a good point. He goes, Ian really needs to grow a beard. Take out, hanging out with you guys. So if you guys don’t know listening to the podcast Eric and I have beards but Ian sadly does not.

[00:04:42] Ian Anderson Gray: Mike, you need to take it up with my wife. That’s all I can say.

[00:04:45] Cause she would not be here.

[00:04:47] Jeff Sieh: Yes. Yes. Yes. He goes, I switched it up and Elisa filled in. She goes, hello friends. This is Elisa. So thank you. I feel better now. Katie, thank you for tuning in today. But here’s some good questions. So since we’re talking about live in today, we’ll get this right out of the way.

[00:05:04] Kareem says, are you guys using Restream? We are using Restream to broadcast to multiple places at the same time. So Restream has a really cool thing right now called pairs where I could send this link to Ian and he’s able to connect with all his channels the same way with Eric. So we’re using Matt to broadcast everywhere and then Blair goes, what software are you guys using for this live stream?

[00:05:27] We are using Ecamm and that’s what allows me to create this amazing show, pull up these amazing lower thirds, have different shots of Ian. And so that’s what I’ve built the show in. So if you can imagine. A live show. You can create it with Ecamm and you can find out more about that at

[00:05:45] But one of the reasons that we love Ecamm so much, it’s not just for live shows. You can make it, use it for presentations. Ian is the one who actually told me about the virtual camera, which allows me to actually do all this cool stuff with in zoom or on other platforms. So it’s really cool. In fact, because you said that Blair, I’ve got a really cool video that I want to play really quickly and only about 30 seconds, but we’ll pop right back in after these short messages.

[00:06:14] Ian Anderson Gray: I’ll let you know sound effects or you can even play like your intro, things like that. Oh, very cool. Yeah, those are things it’s great. If you’re doing like a presentation as well you can, for example, if I’m showing my screen on there, that’s not very exciting, but if I was a station Live, had cycled through my slides on the, on the screen, just make it look a bit more interesting.

[00:06:40] So lots of cool things you can do. Yes.

[00:06:42] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So thanks. Yeah, so there’s a lot of questions about what we’re using. Those are the two tools that I use and I know Ian uses too as, as I use Ecamm to create the show and then Restream to Streaming out everywhere because they only have to send one signal out.

[00:06:57] And that way my computer doesn’t take a big hit. Very cool. If you have more questions about that, make sure you ask us in the comments and I’ll try to get to those later on, because I know it’s kind confusing, like when we’re switching all these scenes and how do we do all that stuff and we make sure that you guys are taken care of, but yeah.

[00:07:12] Ecamm is what makes it happen with the way that it looks. And then Restream is what we use to send it out, to go to multiple places. So did I explain you’re the live video expert? And did I explain it?

[00:07:23] Ian Anderson Gray: No, I think you explained that really well. You can use Restream on its own. You can use Restream studio and that’s the kind of more of a simple way of doing it.

[00:07:30] And you can bring in guests or you can use I mean, it’s, uh, Ecammm Live is Mac based software and it works beautifully with Restream and extends. The thing I love about it is you can broadcast to all these different channels and then Restream will then take all the comments, all these amazing comments across all the places, including on my channels.

[00:07:50] Um, you know, I know you’re broadcasting to my channels as well. And those comments pop back to your Ecamm and then you can see them and highlight them on the screen. Magic.

[00:08:00] Jeff Sieh: I remember we wanted this so bad. Like back in the day with Google plus we had to have a comment tracker and all this stuff, and now it’s super simple.

[00:08:07] So, and a cream says, thanks for answering loving the background display when three are in the. So you need two bits of software Restream and he cam that’s what I use. You don’t have to do it, but for the custom stuff that I’m doing, it just makes sense. And it doesn’t tax my computer as much doing it that way.

[00:08:24] So, and Katie says, love that promote video in that. Cool. They, those guys put together so many cool spots. I’m excited to show you some more and future shows and let’s see, Chris, our friend, Chris stone from deal casters says econ virtual camera rocks. I don’t go live without it. So very cool.

[00:08:43] Uh, yes, it tested. It goes ed, there’s our weekly Google plus reference. That’s right. I have set in my ways. So let’s go on with the show. We’re going to be talking this first segment about these new LinkedIn live updates. So I love LinkedIn live. I was lucky enough to get access pretty early on with the help of um, uh, Jim fuse and some other people.

[00:09:04] And I’ve been getting great engagement over there. My videos do all over there. So here’s the skinny on the LinkedIn alive updates. So a scheduled live stream will automatically now create a public event posts. So when you create a scheduled live stream on one of our third-party streaming software partner platforms, those are like Restream social live stream yard, and switcher.

[00:09:28] It’ll automatically show up on LinkedIn feed as a LinkedIn event post. So this has freaked me out for the last couple of weeks cause I had, they were testing it on me super early. I’m like, why is this an event? I don’t understand. This change combines to discovery, benefits of LinkedIn events with the viral reach and engagement of LinkedIn live.

[00:09:49] So you’ll be able to schedule a live stream. One, one more. One thing you can able to do is you can do it more than seven days in advance. And for pages with LinkedIn live access, any Superman administrator or content page administrator can go live on behalf of the page. Individual administrations no longer have to apply for access, and there’s no longer a limit on the number of admins that can go live on behalf of the page.

[00:10:12] So that’s very cool. So you, and I want to ask you one, have you gotten access to this yet? And how has this, like, how are you using LinkedIn live and how is it different from like Facebook live and YouTube live and all that?

The Difference Between LinkedIn Live and Other Streaming Platforms

[00:10:28] Ian Anderson Gray: I love this new feature from LinkedIn. And I have had it for a couple of weeks, I think.

[00:10:32] And it’s, I think it’s what all the other platforms should be using, because like on Facebook you can create, a scheduled live event or well, a scheduled live broadcast. So say I’m going live next Tuesday. I can go live to my page and it will create a post, but as well as I could create an event and it’s all very confusing, that’s the problem.

[00:10:58] Whereas I think what LinkedIn is doing is they’re just combining everything. It just is, it’s really smart. So you go Live, but as well as that, it creates an event and they are linked. And with LinkedIn, one of the things I really love is the ability. If you have guests on your show, then you can tag them.

[00:11:15] There’s actually a speakers section, so you can actually add them. And I think I did this with, Jeff and EriK And you both got an email or notification, you said, yes. And so it all appears there and I think it’s great. I love what they’re doing. They seem to be really innovating, but in a really thoughtful way.

[00:11:36] Whereas I feel with Facebook, it’s still very clunky. we, won’t go into the whole announcement, posts, thing that they create, because I know that it does your head in Jeff. this is when you create a scheduled post, it will give you that scheduled Live post.

[00:11:56] And then when you go live that scheduled, that announcement posts will then say, Jeff is now live well. Thank you. why don’t you just make back the live video? but anyway, so I think LinkedIn is doing some great stuff there. I love what they’re doing. I think the quality is great. I think the engagement is great and I’m really excited about LinkedIn live and what they’re doing.

[00:12:17] I think it’s, they’re really thinking about the, whole experience of the platform, which is great.

[00:12:26] Jeff Sieh: I agree.

[00:12:26] Erik Fisher: And you’ve had this, you’ve had this for a little while. So have you had any ideas bubble up in terms of what these changes mean in terms of businesses and how they can take advantage of these new changes for their LinkedIn Live?

How Can Businesses Take Advantage of LinkedIn Live?

[00:12:40] Ian Anderson Gray: In some ways it’s quite a subtle change. businesses have been able to use LinkedIn live for awhile. the scheduled part of LinkedIn live, this gives you the ability to have, a URL that you can then share out. So you can send it to your customer base by email or on Social.

[00:13:00] That’s been around for quite a while. It wasn’t there right at the start when LinkedIn launched, but they added that. but I think what this does is it gives more of a, detailed experience when you get to LinkedIn. So when people click on it, it will give much more information about the.

[00:13:20] event Date the time, the end time and the speakers as well. So it’s just a better experience overall, in some ways it’s quite subtle, but I think this is good. And I know Jeff, you were mentioning the, ability to now to schedule more than seven days in advance. That’s exciting. YouTube, you can schedule up to a year in advance.

[00:13:42] Facebook is up to a week. I haven’t tested this with LinkedIn, but I think that’s going to be interesting. This allows you to be much more organized and you could, schedule a whole six months in advance if you wanted there are two issues with that, though. I just want to highlight, first of all, if you are using a tool like Restream and you are going to be multicasting multistream or whatever you want to call it.

[00:14:09] So you’re broadcasting to more than one platform at the same time. Then you have to work with the lowest common denominator, which is Facebook. So Facebook only allows up to a week in advance. So if you’re going live to Facebook, YouTube, and LinkedIn the maximum you’re going to be able to schedule in advance is one week.

[00:14:28] that’s, one thing too to think about. And then the other thing that I was going to say, I’ve completely forgotten because I was just focusing on that as well. So yeah. What were you going to say? I have

[00:14:38] Jeff Sieh: a question about because one of the things we talked about when I was doing that whole spiel about the news about LinkedIn was that the whole pages thing that you can have multiple admins on your pages.

[00:14:50] Now, my question is when should you create a live for your page versus your individual account? So I have Social Media News Live has a page on LinkedIn, but I usually stream to the Jeff Sieh profile because one, I didn’t have access when I first started this thing and I just got people trained. And also, I just think that a person.

[00:15:11] Is it more engaging then? You know, uh, company page, what are your thoughts on that? And when should you use a page versus like your individual or does it matter? What are your thoughts?

Should I Stream on My LinkedIn Profile or Page?

[00:15:21] Ian Anderson Gray: At the moment LinkedIn is still, as we say, in the UK in closed beta. so you have apply for LinkedIn Live and then you have to make a choice.

[00:15:33] do you want to have access on your profile or on your page now? I think for most individuals or small businesses, if you are solo preneur, I hate that word, or entrepreneur, then you have to make a choice, but I think go for the profile first, because pages are just much more difficult to have that engagement and to grow that audience, it just is, that way.

[00:16:03] Obviously, if you are a bigger brand and a business, then Absolutely a page. So I think it’s just down to that. are you representing a big, brand or a company go for a company, but for the most, of us I think for you for me? I think it makes sense to, go for the profile. You’re going to get much more engagement that way.

[00:16:27] And a lot of people just prefer to engage with other people. so I would do it that way. And if you are, going to go live to a page, then do make sure that you don’t hide behind your corporate identity and you do make it personable. you do put the human forwards because that’s one of the big advantages with live video.

[00:16:46] It is all about the human and the transparency. Use it in that way

[00:16:53] Jeff Sieh: Very cool. So

[00:16:54] Erik Fisher: I’m curious now that they’ve added this extended time to schedule on LinkedIn, do you feel like you should take it full advantage and, schedule it out a full week in advance or is there maybe a shorter window?

[00:17:08] What what’s maybe a best practice or what should they try and experiment with?

How Long Should I Schedule Out My LinkedIn Lives?

[00:17:14] Ian Anderson Gray: Thank you, Eric. Cause you reminded me of what I’d forgotten before, which is be careful when you schedule a long time in advance, because like life happens, things change and what if you need to change it now I’ve not tested this, but in the past, LinkedIn Live has not given you the ability to do much editing.

[00:17:34] You can edit…I know you can edit the description afterwards. I haven’t tested whether you can change the date and the time it used to be that you couldn’t. So I would be very careful if you have to change the date and time later, or you have to cancel, then that’s going to be problematic. So I think you always need to have that in mind, but if there’s something that is going to be happening, maybe you’ve got a big event happening in two months time and it’s absolutely going to happen then.

[00:18:01] Yeah. Do it and experiment. I would just say that most people don’t really think about an event until fairly close to it. So I think it’s more for you than for other people. it’s allowing you to be more organized, not to get more people to sign up because most people let’s be Frank. They’re not going to think about it until a couple of days before at the very earliest.

[00:18:30] Jeff Sieh: I think there’s only a certain people like Ian show. I will put on my calendar, but other people I just show up. So, one of the things talking about how important LinkedIn live is Martin Bucklin over on LinkedIn says live video has enlarged and enhanced my brand. Each time I go live Tuesday at two, I ex I secured two new clients minimum.

[00:18:51] So that is awesome. That is very cool. And I know they’re doing a bunch of roll-outs. Like, and Katie says I just got access to LinkedIn live. So if you haven’t gotten it yet, keep applying because I know they’re letting a lot more people through. She goes, got LinkedIn live for the first time on Tuesday.

[00:19:04] Exciting Katie. I’m excited to see what you’re going to put out on LinkedIn live. That goes to the UN another question in, so a couple of weeks ago Louise Brogan was on the show talking all about LinkedIn. And she talked about the importance of getting comments on your videos on LinkedIn. So how can we increase engagement during our LinkedIn lives?

[00:19:25] Cause sometimes we think of LinkedIn is. The most engaging platform, maybe like a Facebook or YouTube, I’ve seen really good results over there, but what are your thoughts about increasing engagement for your live videos?

How to Increase Engagement on Your Live Videos?

[00:19:37] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah I, I think you can’t force it and LinkedIn live the people watching on LinkedIn can be a little bit quieter.

[00:19:47] So don’t, worry overly about it because at the end of the day, if you’re being consistent with your content, with your lives, and if your turning up regularly and you’re engaging with the comments there, then people over time will have the confidence to do that. But don’t, worry if people don’t comment.

[00:20:08] one of the things I’ve learned from you, Jeff is make sure that you prepare questions in advance. Don’t just rely on those comments. That is absolutely vital and don’t get depressed by. The, number of comments that you have, if you don’t have that many comments, because that can get you down. If you’re not having that many, however, there are some things that you can do to improve things.

[00:20:32] ask, people simple questions, they could be very mundane, but for example, it’s a Friday, what are people up to today? What are you going to be having for dinner later? Ideally relate it to what we’re talking about, but sometimes, asking some very simple questions, making sure that the answers that people can give can be short because people might be typing on their phone as well.

[00:21:00] So don’t ask for big, long, monologue. essay questions, in 500 words or less, what is your favorite type of food that might not be the, best thing? sometimes I will ask, where people are watching in the world, what device are they watching on? Are they watching on a phone or, something like that, or, just get, some questions going, but don’t worry overly if people aren’t, it just might the, thing is people might not be in the situation that they can, they might be watching while they’re walking and it would not be a good idea for them to comment while walking, cause they might walk into a tree and that would be awful.

[00:21:44] just, be patient with it. And over time you will get more people commenting.

[00:21:49] I promise you

[00:21:51] Jeff Sieh: So I, there that made me think of, we had Diana Gladney on and I know she was on your show, just I think yesterday. And she told me one of the things she does for engagement and she asks a polarizing question.

[00:22:01] So one of the, when she asks is it’s as strawberry jelly or grape jelly, and everybody has opinion on that. And you could also do like a, like coriander, like you call it coriander it’s, um, actually cilantro or no cilantro. Cause that’s another thing that people really. Up in arms about, should you use it or not or whatever, and I guess you could be like, beans for breakfast or no beans for breakfast in the UK bangers and mash.

[00:22:23] I don’t know.

[00:22:24] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. I think this is something that you’ve had Janet Murray on the show before, and she does this, she actually gets these slides or these graphics and puts them on the screen and is it is like that these kind of polarizing questions or you know, the kind of things that you’ve just been talking about.

[00:22:43] So you could create those in advance or just pop them up on the screen. If you start your show with a countdown, timer, countdown, timers can get a bit boring. So why not just put a bit of put some images on the screen get a bit of engagement right from the start, because the thing is the re this is true about engagement.

[00:23:01] If you start to get comments right at the beginning of your show, then Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, all these channels say to themselves, if the algorithm was a human, it would start talking to itself. So yeah. This looks like quite a popular live show. I think I’m going to share that, show this in the feed a little bit more.

[00:23:20] Let’s run, pop the algorithm labs, and that’s what happens. I

[00:23:24] Jeff Sieh: didn’t know English accent. That’s really cool though. Yeah,

[00:23:28] Ian Anderson Gray: absolutely. It speaks with a Northern English accent. So that’s what happens. So I think it’s important too, to try and get that engagement and don’t be afraid. Don’t be afraid of asking your friends and your family, particularly when you’re first starting out with this to get involved and comment at the start, because that will help the algorithm a little bit.

[00:23:49] And you know, this, this has happened for centuries, when you went to the theater or the opera or something like that, there would be people there and in the audience that would shout and clap and they, they were there to get the atmosphere up a little bit more. So don’t be afraid of.

[00:24:08] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, we cut when I did magic, those were called plants. And so we would have plants not green plants, but plants in the audience. And I, I, when I first started doing live shows, I did that all the time. I’d say, Hey, Ian, will you come? You don’t have to see the whole time, but will you go there and ask a question?

[00:24:22] And, so I don’t look like I’m by myself. It is totally okay to do that. And so don’t feel bad about doing that because I think everybody who first started has done that to some extent or another Scott, our friend Scott air says trivia questions are a great way to get engagement, especially if there’s a giveaway.

[00:24:39] Uh, we’ll have to show up for Scott and ask, on his next livestream, what he’s given away. Cause I have no real one free stuff. That’s right. That’s right. All right, Eric, let’s go Into, go ahead and move to our next segment, which we’ve covered on the show before, but it continues to have things break about it, about my shopping with like.

[00:24:59] Erik Fisher: Yes. So TikTok Live shopping tactics. TikTok is expanding its investment in Ecammmerce. Earlier this year they started piloting TikTok shopping in the us, the UK, Canada, and it was a partnership with Spotify and that deal allowed Spotify merchants with a TikTok for business account, add a shopping tab to their TikTok profiles.

[00:25:23] And so they could seek their products catalogs to the app and create these mini storefronts. Now TikTok has announced that they’re adding a slate of new brand partners for TikTok shopping, including square equid press shop with Wix shop line, open cart and base coming soon. And they’re opening up a much fuller slate of solutions for TikTok commerce.

[00:25:50] Add products. And later this year, a TikTok shopping API, that is very interesting. This is kind mind-blowing actually in a lot of ways. We’ve, we’ve been talking about live video here and, and live stream shopping obviously has already been a thing and it’s getting stronger, but Ian, what do you think about businesses starting their Live shopping strategy?

How Can Businesses Start a Live Shopping Strategy?

[00:26:15] Ian Anderson Gray: Well, I think it’s absolutely vital for so many companies out there. The four, we’ve talked to about Amazon Live before Amazon Live is a very exciting platform. And so it makes sense for networks like TikTok to be launching this. And we know how huge tech talk is whether you love or loath TikTok.

[00:26:42] It is absolutely something that retailers need to be looking at the moment. This is gonna be huge. Um, although this is not something I will particularly be using myself, my clients and many people I know definitely should be looking at this. I think this is very exciting. And you need to get that experience now of getting in front of the camera.

[00:27:05] You need to find somebody within your business who is going to be the face of your brand of your company. And who’s going to be half that, a half that experience of getting in front of the camera and selling stuff, because there is definitely there’s there’s you’ve got, you’ve got to get that experience first because there was definitely a knack to doing it.

[00:27:31] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. One of the things that I thought it was interesting, and my daughter even showed me this, that there was this this TikTok, hashtag, which was TikTok, made me buy it. And then they were posting these products and then these influencers were getting, a bunch of, you know, sales from that kind of stuff.

[00:27:50] And so we actually, this is online selling too. We actually stream as well. And I was just talking while you were going. Cause it’s still clunky over on Amazon Live at Adrian Salsbury from Ecamm was over there saying hi, because he’s gonna be on the show in a couple of weeks. And I, I’m talking about like my, when we have the stream deck where I switched in these lower thirds and all that stuff, and I’m talking about that and I’m able to highlight that underneath the show and make sales that way.

[00:28:18] So it’s already here. It’s already coming. Eric asked about how, businesses start thinking about their Streaming strategy. It’s also really important. There’s been mark multiple articles about how important it is for businesses to partner with influencers. And the interesting thing was those influencers don’t have to have a huge following, it’s based on expertise.

[00:28:42] So what do you recommend businesses start to look for in partnerships? I know you and I have both been on the partner. We’ve been on the kind of the partnership side. What are your thoughts of what, what, what businesses, what should they look for?

What Should Businesses Look For in an Influencer Partnership?

[00:28:55] Ian Anderson Gray: Oh, right. So it’s, quite a minefield, but it’s, you shouldn’t be put off by, the complexity of it all because there are, first of all, don’t be overly excited by going for the big names.

[00:29:09] As you were saying, it doesn’t have to be the big names that, the mega. Influences or the macro influences, you can go from micro influences. There’s even a term, which I learned relatively recently called nano influencers. People who have under a thousand followers. And the thing is, you’re looking for people, first of all, who love what you do and get what you do that is absolutely vital.

[00:29:38] Not only that though, the people that follow them also have to love or potentially love what you do too. And so you’ve got to go out there and find not just one, but maybe a dozen of these nano or micro influencers and work with them. They don’t have to have a huge following. In fact, there are advantages in them not having a huge following.

[00:29:59] They’re far more likely to want to work with you. with the, nano influences, they may not actually require much in return. Having said that, I do think you do need to. invest in these influencers because they might be small now, but they might be bigger later on through your help.

[00:30:22] And so do your research first and find people who inspire you, who have the potential to grow and who also potentially love your brand and what it is that you do, and invest in them is I think the thing that I’ve found as an influencer myself, I don’t particularly like that word influencer, but we all, are influential in some way, but what’s really important is that it is a two way relationship. So they will help you, but you also need to invest in them to there has to be a two way relationship.

[00:31:04] Jeff Sieh: I don’t agree at all. No. Yes. Uh, what are the things that I think is important is.

[00:31:11] And I think the savvy businesses are getting you know, really smart about this is because a lot of times the engagement, you can talk to some of these influencers who have grown to hundreds of thousand people, let’s use Instagram, for example, their engagement kind of falls off. Like it’s hard for them there that doesn’t get shown as much.

[00:31:29] And a lot of these businesses are finding especially for niche topics that those micro and nano influencers like you’re talking about, do a lot better and, even, and, and can influence sales, especially if it’s a niche you’re in. So like for you, and I know you’re a spokesman and a you know, they sponsor your show.

[00:31:48] Restream does because it makes sense for them because you talk about live video and, that’s their audience who you’re talking to and it’s already there and it’s established and it makes sense for them. So one of the things I would say, if you have even a slightest. Of influence. And I think this is very encouraging for people who are small or just getting started, that there’s still ways you can work with brands that they’re starting to get more and more interested in the smaller maybe nature, things that cause they’re seeing that people trust you more.

[00:32:18] Like when the Kardashians say, Jeff, you need to buy this lipstick. I’m like, nah, I have my favorite lipstick that Ian had told me about that I’m going to use. But you know what I’m saying? The trust kind of falls off. But if somebody that you like Gary Stockton shows up to every show that we do. And if I said, Gary, I really think this is really good.

[00:32:37] Gary would be more inclined to buy it. Then if some, just big spokesman on TV would say it because he showed up, he trusts what we say. He knows that we provide value and information. So that is really, I think, exciting for smaller brands that you don’t have to you don’t have to wait until you’re like a hundred thousand people over on Instagram or something.

The Importance of Honesty & Transparency as Influencers

[00:32:56] Ian Anderson Gray: I think there’s one other thing I wanted to mention. That’s really important here, and that is. There needs to be honesty and transparency. I’ve had brands that have approached me and wants to pay me to say how amazing their brand is. And then, when you talk with them, they don’t want you to mention anything negative about them.

[00:33:23] And if, I went out there and started talking about a company and I said, they were amazing, and I was being paid to say, they were amazing. And people found out about that. Then my trust level would go right down. People would, my audience would quite rightly not be happy with me and they wouldn’t trust me anymore.

[00:33:43] So you’ve got to be respectful of the influencers audience. And they’ve got to be able to say, Potentially some negative things about you. I wrote an article years ago called seven reasons not to use Hootsuite And interestingly, at the time I had an affiliates with, Hootsuite and a few other things and a few other tools that I mentioned in that.

[00:34:07] And I got a lot of affiliate links from Hootsuite because people read that article and they thought, oh, is that the only negative things about it? I’m fine. I’m fine with Hootsuite. I’m going to buy it. And so trust level is really important. So don’t necessarily go for the people who are saying all the most amazing things about you.

[00:34:25] Maybe go for people who are saying some negative things about you, but they’ve got an engaged audience and maybe they can say some positive things and some negative things about you and you can work with them that way. It seems slightly counter intuitive, but I think trust is absolutely vital when it comes to.

[00:34:43] this

[00:34:44] Jeff Sieh: And I would okay, go ahead. Hold

[00:34:47] Erik Fisher: on in, you mentioned trust and that’s exactly where I want to go here because you’ve been giving some of the answers to this question I have, which is when people say the word sales, they instantly think a used car salesman and pushy and shoving and all that kind of stuff.

[00:35:03] How can we, what are some ways that we can still do live events like shopping events and push sales, but not be coming across as a used car salesman? And I think what you just said, trust is one of those aspects. Is there other aspects to it?

How Can We Not Sound “Salesy” During Promotions?

[00:35:20] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah, I think it’s honesty. I, I’ve never been trained in sales, but I used to work at a music shop when I was I was a student and I was selling these digital pianos and I found I was really good at it.

[00:35:31] In fact, one month, much to the annoyance of all the full-timers I was part-time. I only worked two days a week. I sold more digital pianos and. And that week and the way I did it was if people came into the shop, I would talk to them, not about the pianos. I’ll just talk how’s your day would I’d have a conversation with them.

[00:35:51] And then I would say, ah so what you’re looking for and this is all we’re looking for a digital piano. And then I would say there’s a lot of digital pianos. It’s really confusing. So I’d be using empathy. I would empathize with the situation that they were in. And then I would focus on the digital piano that I thought they would like, I wouldn’t just talk about the positives.

[00:36:13] I would say There’s no such thing as a perfect digital piano. This one here I think is great. And I think it’s going to suit all your needs. It does have this one disadvantage, but I think in your situation, it’s going to be amazing and not just treat them like a human being. Now, if I went, if I pounced on them, when they came in the door and said, oh, you’ve got to bite this piano heads.

[00:36:34] It’s amazing. And it’s half price today and it’s to then they’re going to run out of the store. And literally that was the way I won’t mention the, the name of the company. But we had, did have a sales meeting with one of the digital piano brands who came into the shop. And that’s literally how they thought we should sell by pouncing on them.

[00:36:54] And it just didn’t work. So I think you need to have used empathy. You need to treat people who you’re talking to like other human beings and show interest in them and in the dilemma that they’re in and solve a problem for them and have fun while you do.

[00:37:10] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, one of the things I want to talk to a real quick about it before we move on to the next section is if you are like a smaller influencer or you’ve gotten your first brand deal or whatever, make sure you deliver, make sure that you want to continue that relationship and you want to go above and beyond.

[00:37:26] The, you know, don’t be like, Highfalutin now that you’ve got to brain deal, I’ve seen some people do it. Like I’ve got a deal and you want to, you want to be emailing that client say, Hey, is this working? What do you need is a landing page conversion? And how can I help, all that kind of stuff you want to do?

[00:37:42] So you continue the relationship. But also that leads to other ones. Cause they talk other brands, talk to other people going, I had Ian on he posted, he talked about my, what I was doing and I got these sales. This is amazing. And so make sure that you go above and beyond. Don’t just sit back and go, Hey, I got somebody to sponsor my show.

[00:37:59] I’ve got it’s made, so anyway, I just wanted to point that out. Yeah, Katie says serve, don’t sell. And she got that actually from our friend Kim Garst. She says doesn’t actually mean don’t sell. She means to do it as a service. Totally agree, Katie. And Gary says, I think Ross brand does a great job of talking about products Live in a non salesy way.

[00:38:22] And I think that is very, very true. And the other thing is like, you Only only recommend products that you use or that you you know, endorse, like I was a fan of Ecamm way before they sponsored the show. And by the way, you can find out more about Ecamm by going to Social Media News, Live dot com slash Ecamm see how I did that seamless.

[00:38:42] But yeah, but Social Media News Live dot com slash Ecamm because I love them. I love Katie and the guys over there. And I, I am a fan. I was a fan before we even talked about sponsorship. And so that’s why I think this is so important is use those tools. And if you love something, reach out to them.

[00:39:04] That’s what I did with Ecamm. I’m like, I love you guys. What can I do to help? And then it, the relationship developed in, you and I spoke at their booth. We did an interview like two years ago at social media marketing world. And then it’s all about relationships guys. And so I just. I think the more you can do that, the better off you’ll be.

[00:39:21] So that’s all I wanted to say about that, but I thought that was a good transition. So next section, this is an interesting one as, uh, Ian and I are big fans of this. So repurposing live video and there, the importance of that. So if you’ve been noticing throughout this entire show, I’ve been flashing up Ian’s lore third, I’ve been putting the title up and I’m using the stream deck to do that with a while.

[00:39:48] We’re talking in. One of the reasons I do that is because everything that he says, it’s going to be repurposed to put out on my channel. And I want those lower thirds to show up and an easy way when I chop it up later. So in a, we both see the value of repurposing live video. What are some tools and tips that you use to do that?

Why Repurposing Your Live Video Is Important

[00:40:09] Ian Anderson Gray: One of the reasons I love repurposing live video is I’m a recovering perfectionist, like a lot of people on store here. And the idea of creating a blog post. This is what we’re told. You need to create blogs. You need to do a podcast. You need to do live video. You need to create social media images.

[00:40:27] Are you exhausted? I’m exhausted just listening to that list. But with live video, you go live. You obviously you plan like Jeff and Eric have plans. Meticulously. I have to say that you should see all the show notes. It’s amazing. And so they’ve done that, but the w we’ve gone live, and then from this, you can then easily repurpose this into lots of different content.

[00:40:49] My friend Amy Woods calls these like video babies is one of them. So you could cut them up and create these little videos on Instagram or. So tools, I know a big, you’re a big fan. Jeff of a descript is an amazing tool. So you can just download the video from, or get it from Ecamm or Restream studio, bring it into descripts cut it up.

[00:41:15] First of all, it will transcribe your transcribe your audio into text into words, which you can then edit into lots of snippets for all those different channels. So Instagram, square video, rectangular landscape video, that kind of thing. And you can even put the captions on the screen as well.

[00:41:36] So I would definitely recommend descript and that’s also the way you can edit it, edit the audio, turn it into a podcast. So again, with Ecamm Live or Restream studio, you can you can switch something. To have your audio and your guests audio on different tracks. So if I was about to have a coughing fit while Eric or Jeff was talking, and then Jeff would be able to edit those bits out and it makes it a lot easier for later.

[00:42:04] So you can turn it into a podcast, which is what I do with my show turn it into a blog post or show notes. So I think descript is probably one of my favorite tools. There’s another tool called headliner, which is great for those audiograms and for those short videos as well. And my goodness, I could go on this easel, this convert there’s those tools as well for those images.

[00:42:27] But I start my, the first, the central tool for everything that I do is Ecamm Live and that then gets sent out to Restream. So I get a, it gets sent out to all these different channels across the interwebs and that I, cause I then repurpose that into blog posts, podcasts, a little video babies as well, and it’s saves so much time.

[00:42:52] It’s amazing.

[00:42:53] Jeff Sieh: Wow. That was worth the price of admission right there. That whole breakdown. Yeah, there in I have a question. So if,

[00:43:00] Erik Fisher: obviously with a live show, one of the main points is to have engagement, to interact with the audience. We’ve been talking about this the whole episode and. I’m wondering though, how do you maintain a balance between engage with the audience?

[00:43:17] And yet also have segments that are worthy of chopping up into babies to that’s such a weird phrase to, um, to repurpose.

Balancing Engagement With Repurposing

[00:43:27] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah. It does sound a bit dodgy that isn’t it chopping up into babies, but yeah, this is the three audiences problem and podcasts. There are advantages and disadvantages in using your live video and turning it into a podcast disadvantaged first.

[00:43:45] So let’s talk about the disadvantages. First of all, if you are used to want to, if you want to batch record your podcast, then you can’t do that with live video because four live videos in a row, that’s not going to work. So that’s one disadvantage, but I, and of course the other disadvantage is you have to then juggle the different audiences.

[00:44:02] There are three audiences to this show. For example, if you are watching live now that. That you are in the live audience and you feel part of a community. So there are other people watching live. You can see them, you can see the comments and you were watching Live. Then there are the people in the future.

[00:44:21] Hello, future people, you are the replay audience. And so you’re watching more. It’s a more of an intimate experience you’re watching on your own. You can see comments from the past, but no one else is watching with you. And then you’ve got, if you’re repurposing it into a podcast, you’ve got your podcast listeners again in the future and a more intimate experience, even more so with podcasting, they’re plugging you into their ears, but they are only, they can only listen.

[00:44:52] They can’t see what’s on the screen. And so this is what you need to think about when you’re delivering a live show. You need to think about those three audiences continually, and you need to structure the show in a way that thinks about those different people. If you ignore your live viewers, they’re not going to feel loved, but if you spend too much time with your live viewers, it’s going to be really boring for your podcast listeners and your replay audience.

[00:45:17] They’re going to think they’re not interested that the hosts are only interested in the Live people and it becomes really boring. So I structure my shows in a similar way to the way you do. Jeff. I have my live segments at the beginning where I chat with my audience, and then I trim that off at the end.

[00:45:37] What for the replay audience, they don’t see that because I trim that off. And the podcast listeners don’t hear that. And then with the main show, I will break it up into segments. So I have main segments, number one, and then I will engage with my audience segment number two, engage with the audience, the segment, number three, engage with my audience that way.

[00:46:00] And quite frankly, on a live show. Audience ask amazing questions. So as, as on this show, like Jeff, Eric, you ask me questions and then sometimes someone will ask a really amazing question or a comment in the, in the comments and you will bring that in to the show. And I think that works really well for the replay and it works really well for the podcast.

[00:46:25] What you don’t want to do is spend, it’s get distracted by the comments and say, oh, look, Billy, is there. Hello Billy Into, at home. Do you remember last week, we had a great time, but that won’t work, but make sure that you are engaging with your audience and you’re making it valuable for all those three audiences.

[00:46:43] Jeff Sieh: I think that’s really key. One of the things, and I think it also depends on like, when I love multi streaming, which a lot of people will have one channel that does better for them than another. So if you look at Lauria’s show and she does a genius way of signaling her show, she does like a Live segment.

[00:46:59] And then she does something special just for her membership. But before she goes over there to her. Her S her select group, she’ll go off to the side and start talking and wrapping things up. She does that, so she can put that YouTube. At the corner for like, coming up next. So she’s thinking about her YouTube audience when she’s doing her life.

[00:47:18] One of the things I’m doing, like when I go full screen to Ian one of the things is I ask a question and then usually you spend some times answering. This is a great section for me to repurpose. Now I could actually have it like this without the overlays, but because I know most of my viewers, as of now are coming from Social, I leave this, I know they’re goofy and they look like eighties, but so does he end?

[00:47:41] But I do that because that catches people’s eye, I’ve done tests with it on and with off and that goofy little overlay that we have on there catches people’s eyes for the social clips that I use. And so I’m doing this for the replay or the repurposing later. Uh, as you do that, start thinking and testing things, what’s working.

[00:48:00] Why is this work? There’s a reason why. This movement background go in right now, because this catches people’s eye, if they’re flicking through the feed. So Gary said, yeah, brilliant. So that thumbnails are embedded in the actual footage. Yeah. That’s why I do that. It’s a time-saver and this is a great point, too.

[00:48:16] Gary brings up Cher Jones, asked her audience to do hashtag team Live or hashtag team replay. So she knows where it’s coming from, but it also, that’s a great way of, as Ian was saying at the very beginning to signal the algorithm you know, that this is that people are commenting on this video and it’s really good.

[00:48:35] So excellent things in where do you, where’s the best place that you found that your repurpose video, not your live video, but like when you repurpose video, is there a platform that does better for you than the others?

What Platform Does Better for Repurposed Video?

[00:48:50] Ian Anderson Gray: I’m still experimenting with this because quite frankly, it’s changing all the time.

[00:48:55] And so I don’t think you might settle on a place. For a little bit, but then things changed. So for example, for me, I found that LinkedIn live originally was I was getting loads and loads of engagement. And then I found that actually prerecorded video worked better on LinkedIn. And now I’m finding that actually linked in life is working.

[00:49:16] So it changes a lot. I’m finding that I love, I love Instagram reels. I’m using that a lot and I’m getting a lot of engagement on Instagram reels. Not quite so much for the repurpose content though. So for repurposed content, I’m probably getting the most engagement actually, funnily enough, on Facebook.

[00:49:39] So Facebook is I’m getting the most. That’s probably going to change. So on a, on a week by week basis, I think you need to keep looking at the analytics, keep tweaking. I’d love to say to you now this network here is the best one. I found that I was multi streaming to all these channels and I wasn’t getting, there’s a, there’s a streaming platform called de Live.

[00:50:05] I don’t know if anyone’s heard of de Live. I was getting like nothing on D life. And then suddenly I had a couple of people pop up and they loved the show and they turned up next week on de Live. And I had to remember to go in and like work out how to edit my profile and do all these other things.

[00:50:20] Yeah, just keep experimenting and keep playing around with these things, because my experience will be different to your experience and it changes on a week by week basis.

[00:50:31] Jeff Sieh: Yes. Great point. Uh, keep the analytics, and keep trying, and that’s what’s the genius is of, uh, uh, Ecamm and Restream.

[00:50:40] Now we can go to all these places and before it was fragmented, but now we can all bring those comments in from every place like Gary was on YouTube. You know, Martin was over on LinkedIn. Louise is on LinkedIn too. Uh, Facebook Phil was on Facebook. All these people at different places.

[00:50:55] And I just, it’s so cool now that you, your audience can pick where they want to watch from. And I think that is amazing. So this next and our final section, we only got a few minutes left with this, but I thought this was fascinating and it’s live video and the metaverse. So Eric. Tell us, what is the metaverse and how do we get in it?

Live Video and the Multiverse

[00:51:17] Erik Fisher: Yeah. I love the multi-verse. Oh, wait, that’s a different thing. Yeah. The metaverse, basically Facebook is going all in and have been for awhile on their Oculus, their VR stuff and creating worlds inside of tech. We’re talking ready player, one type stuff. And basically they’ve come out with something called horizon workrooms, which Jeff, I think you and I need to play with this on our own right here, along with a couple other friends that have mentioned it.

[00:51:51] And basically it’s a way to have more immersive communication inside of a digital place or digital space when you are physically apart. Like a lot of us have been for a while now and next year zoom. It’s been announced. Zoom is coming to Facebook’s horizon work rooms. It’s going to create a way for them to have a shared VR meeting space, to host video meetings and connect with a zoom whiteboard.

[00:52:22] And you’re gonna be able to pin that whiteboard to a virtual desk or to a wall so everybody can see it and you can draw on it and colleagues can do that as well, or just watch is very interesting. We’ve, we’ve talked humorously about some of the changes that we never thought would stay, uh, like 24 hour disappearing images and video live online shopping.

[00:52:45] And so I don’t know if they could make VR a little less just lawnmower man. And strange. Do you think, what do you guys think about this? Is this something that you could adopt? I know Jeff and I, you both have you and I both have Oculuses Ian, what do you think?

[00:53:04] Ian Anderson Gray: Yeah I, I think. I think it’s coming.

[00:53:09] I don’t think it’s yet, but this is exciting stuff. And I, I think particularly over the last year, because so many of us have been trapped at home in front of zoom and are, had some exploded with Borden with the experience of, seems great. Don’t get me wrong, but it’s you’re meeting in front of a flat screen.

[00:53:30] It’s exhausting because I looked into this because I thought, why are zoom? Why is zoom meeting so tiring? And it’s because you’re on camera all the time. You’re looking at the screen. Whereas in person you might be looking over out the window. And I think with these VR experiences, it will feel like.

[00:53:52] Tiring to have these meetings, but I don’t think we’re there yet. And I think these companies like Facebook, they need to do a much better job at making it less geeky. For goodness sake, metaverse like geeks, that’s fine. But for the most of the world, they are not going to understand what that is.

[00:54:09] And I think you’re right with the whole putting the, the headset on. I think it’s becoming a bit more cool and a bit more mainstream. And I am starting to see VR headsets in regular stores. But the prices need to come down. And I think you just need to, that there needs to be a real Paul before people get on and put these headsets on.

[00:54:34] There needs to be, they need to know that there is a real advantage and maybe the advantage is it’s going to be less tiring. It’s going to make meetings much more engaging and fun. But it kind reminds me of, do you remember second life? I’m just showing my age there. Is it still there? People used people used to call it, get a life.

[00:54:57] I wonder whether it’s you know, we’ve got to, we’ve got to think about that here. I don’t

[00:55:02] Jeff Sieh: know. So have you put on Oculus, have you tried VR yet in, at all?

[00:55:07] Ian Anderson Gray: No. The closest I’ve got to is Google cardboard. It’s just not the same. So I want to get, I do what it’s on my list. I’m not.

[00:55:17] Jeff Sieh: So I think live video is going to have a space in there because I’ve actually watched live video inside of Oculus.

[00:55:22] And the cool thing is it’s a huge TV. There’s a, an app in there that I love called a big screen, which is like these virtual theaters with dynamic lighting. It’s you’re there in the theater. And I’ve watched the space, echo space X launch in there. And it’s amazing. It’s just fun. The thing is if you haven’t put them on yet, It is, you can’t explain it.

[00:55:42] It just it’s really freaky, but it’s really literally cool. So here’s the thing. I only with only really super close friends and with I don’t like, I’ve never liked chat rooms or going into places where I don’t know it is so intimate. Like Eric and I got on it together. We were testing some video stuff and it’s he was sitting beside me and I can’t handle that with other people.

[00:56:05] You know what like that, I don’t know. It was weird enough that Eric was there. It really does. It sounds like they’re right there beside you and you look and there’s this avatar and now I can see how that would be great for this workrooms. And I sh and now they I can actually draw my desk now and draw my couch and move between those spaces inside of VR.

[00:56:24] So it’s coming and we’re going to be watching live video on there, and there’s going to be stuff that happens. And it’s intimate. That’s the thing. You’re going to be able to do this with Eric and I will be able to collaborate on projects and have a big whiteboard and all that stuff. So it’s coming.

[00:56:39] So I always thought we’d never have a television studio in our pocket and look what we’re doing now. So I don’t say no anymore. That’s a stupid idea because stuff happens so anyway Into Brandt, but it’s very cool. So I think it’s going to happen. So before we’re, at the end of our time, Ian, I want to make sure that you have plenty of time to tell people where to find you all about your podcast and all the good stuff that is Ian Anderson.

Final Thoughts

[00:57:04] Ian Anderson Gray: Oh, thanks. Yeah, you do. I have the covenant Live marketing podcast, which goes live every Friday. So actually today I’ve got filmers Mushawn on the show and I have a bit of fun every week and a singer silly little theme tune every week. So I’m looking forward to when Erickson, because I can’t remember what style Eric asked for, but that’s coming soon.

[00:57:26] So you can find out more about that forward slash podcast. I’ll just search for the confident Live marketing podcast. And I’ve also got a course coming up very soon. It’s the confident line marketing academy and more about that is on the website,

[00:57:41] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. And where can people find out about all things, Eric Fisher and your amazing.

[00:57:48] Yeah,

[00:57:48] Erik Fisher: check it out over at, beyond the to-do It’s going on 10 years now, podcast of productivity. And if you’ve got a headache in terms of productivity, I’ve actually got some short casts that I released in the feed that are out there from September we’re now in October, which is amazing seven to 10 minutes long.

[00:58:11] So if you need a quick boost to productivity, we’ve got some greats, like James clear, Laura Vanderkam uh, near AI. And I forget what the other one was, but they, those are quick little boosts and then we got longer episodes as

[00:58:23] Jeff Sieh: well. Yeah, who’s on your list, but mostly latest episode,

[00:58:27] Erik Fisher: The latest episode Dorie Clark thinking longterm as a skill is a really great.

[00:58:34] Check that one

[00:58:35] Jeff Sieh: out. Awesome. So make sure to go to beyond the to-do list and check that out and go. So go to Ian’s podcast at IAG dot Emmy Ford slash podcast and leave them a rating and review because that really does help get the word out. We are also a podcast and if you would go to your favorite podcast player and search Social Media News Live, you can listen to this.

[00:58:55] If you’re not able to join us live. And with that, we thank you guys so much. Thank you for our sponsor. Uh, Ecamm I’ve talked about them all day. I can’t even remember now. Ecamm they’re amazing. You go to Social Media News, Live dot com slash Ecamm. Our next show is Friday, October 8th, at 10:00 AM central, and you can find us on YouTube, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Amazon Live.

[00:59:16] Appreciate all you guys for showing up Andy Trob. Thank you for popping in Phil. Thank you for popping in Louise. Everybody who showed up, we could not do the show without you, and we will see you guys all next week. Bye everybody.

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