SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to Social Media News Live, I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:00:04] Lauren Gaggioli: I’m Lauren Gaggioli, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:11] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever thought about the intricacies of crafting a podcast community that truly connects or maybe you’re eager to uncover the strategies behind A successful community engagement strategy, or maybe you’re on a mission to transform your podcast into a hub of genuine interaction and shared passion.

[00:00:28] If those thoughts have resonated with you, then you are in for a great episode today. We are elated to introduce a guest who embodies the spirit of community building. She’s a podcasting virtuoso who has seamlessly woven her listeners into a tight knit community. Elsie will be unveiling her experiences, her wisdom, And her golden rules for fostering a thriving podcast community.

[00:00:50] So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for an episode brimming with revelations and motivations. So let’s dive right in. Elsie, how are you doing today?

[00:01:01] Elsie Escobar: Oh, I’m just great. I’m great. What a, what an intro. My god. Oh, just wait. All kinds of words. There

[00:01:08] Jeff Sieh: is more because I want to introduce you to the guest.

[00:01:10] For the people who don’t know who Elsie is, she is a passionate podcasting advocate and mentor for independent podcasters. She is known for her work in driving conversations about the power of podcasts to create social change and their impact on culture and society. She’s got 17 years of experience in the podcasting industry.

[00:01:28] She has been a proponent. for greater diversity and representation in the field and addition to her advocacy, Elsie is an inductee into the Academy of Podcasters Hall of Fame, co founded. She podcasts a podcasting community with more than 22, 000 members and she’s also the directory, director of community and content at Libsyn and co host and producer of The Feed, the official Libsyn podcast, which is an amazing podcast, by the way, and through her work.

[00:01:55] LC has enabled and empowered countless individuals to pursue their dreams of podcasting, discover their voice, and get clear and confident in the industry in their own way. LC, once again, thank you for being on the show today.

[00:02:07] Elsie Escobar: Oh my gosh, Yvette, thank you

[00:02:09] Jeff Sieh: for having me. We’ve got your fans here already.

[00:02:11] Scott Ayers, thank you for watching. Scott, he says Lipsyn is the best. So, we’ve already got people coming in. So, Gary said, good morning from Huntington Beach, you good people. Thank you, Gary. He’s a faithful watcher and listeners. I appreciate you, Gary, for popping in. so we’re going to just jump right in here because there’s so much we want to talk about today.

[00:02:32] And, Lauren, once again, jump in because this is going to be like me going crazy. one of the things is a struggle I know for podcasters. Because it’s kind of, and we talked about this a little bit last week with Dave Jackson, it’s kind of a one way thing. You’re talking to the audience, it’s hard for them to talk back.

[00:02:47] So, how, what inspired you to kind of create your community and really focus on this community building aspect in your podcasting journey?

[00:02:57] Elsie Escobar: I think I started to do that because I got into podcasting because of the community. That was like one of the biggest things that got me into podcasting, like hands down.

[00:03:07] I was in LA. I was part of a yoga community cause that’s where I came from. I came from the yoga space in addition to some acting stuff and, the yoga community that I was gram. com, dupesc walitiasí podcasting was introduced to podcasting. podcasting had that sense, podcasts had that sense especially from the podcasts that I listened to back in the day come, the community conversation was one of the key tenants thru me to the medium is the fact that podcasters are like email me and they would say their email or call the show and then they would lay down the And I was like, what?

[00:03:45] And so I started emailing people that I was listening to and they emailed me back. And I was astounded by that. And so I started to see like, wow, this is a really like high touch type of a thing. Like when does that happen when you’re listening? I thought, you know, radio. When does that even happen when you do that?

[00:04:06] And so I decided that this was just part of the culture. So when I started my first podcast, which was, it’s called Elsie’s Yoga Class, I had a phone number. I had an email address. I was constantly talking. I was just emulating, copying exactly what I was taught in the beginning. And people just started emailing me back and I thought, wow, this is so great.

[00:04:28] So to me, it wasn’t like I’m going to focus on community. It really was. It’s just the way we did things and that was the thing that I did.

[00:04:39] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. So it was organic, I guess.

[00:04:41] Elsie Escobar: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Good, Lauren. So I’m, I’m wondering

[00:04:45] Lauren Gaggioli: when you say

[00:04:46] Elsie Escobar: community, what do you mean? Do you mean people who are

[00:04:49] Lauren Gaggioli: listening?

[00:04:50] Is it, are they congregating somewhere and talking to each other? Is it just your connection with the individual? How, how do you define it?

[00:04:58] Elsie Escobar: For me? Well, there’s different. It’s very strange because you’re asking me. From, from my experience in podcasts and building community in, within podcasts, it usually is me talking with the audience and us getting to know each other and creating something together, possibly.

[00:05:19] Making friends, but mainly me being the core. Now, as I’ve worked in community building for so long, not only as my job, but also building independent little communities, I see that there’s so much more to that question, because there’s a lot of places that really merit having a community, meaning they need to be the center, that the community people themselves need to be the center, and they require.

[00:05:48] There’s a need just of that connection. Then there’s communities that are built around trying to figure things out, like feedback, right? So there’s communities that come out simply for mining the information and being able to serve that community. You are the expert versus that standing by itself. And then there’s like the podcast communities, which sometimes are really based on the topic.

[00:06:13] But really, they center the, the host, right? A lot of communities are around the hosts because that’s who you connect with. And you become a fan if you, in the same way that you do with, you know, Taylor Swift fans. Like they, they name themselves and they go watch her, right? And they might talk about, Taylor, and they, but that’s all they talk about, Taylor, and they talk about songs and they experience things about her and they want to go see her and that’s what I think some podcasts communities are like that.

[00:06:51] Jeff Sieh: So, one of the things that I wanted to, so, so we, two, two episodes ago we had Lou Mangiello and I think, you know, Lou, like you mentioned, he started around a, a, a kind of an area which would be like, Walt Disney World, and that’s what he talked about. Well, then he kind of morphed into, like, he’s the host and now he’s got, you know, a brand even built around him where he does, like, Momentum, he does, you know, a bunch of other things.

[00:07:16] And we have, like, Shannon, Hernandez, who was our first kind of podcasting. He’s a disc jockey out of Phoenix, one of the biggest radio stations in Phoenix, where he’s built his kind of podcast in his community around himself being on the radio. So, when, let’s talk for, like, the new podcasters. Should they start community focused at the very beginning?

[00:07:35] Because I really think that when people think about starting a podcast, they think about, okay, what equipment I need, what, you know, host I need to be on, all this stuff. Are there some foundational elements that they should start with? Like, you need to go out of the gate thinking about your community.

[00:07:52] Elsie Escobar: I think there has to be an element of dialogue, whether that becomes a community or not.

[00:07:59] It’s up to you because community is not an easy thing to build, so it requires a lot of work, but dialogue 100% all the time. You need to have that connection with whoever is listening to you and establishing the basics, which is something that I’ve seen a lot of folks, especially now starting out, are really missing, is that dialogue.

[00:08:19] back in the day, I, I don’t want to say that over and over and over again because like, there’s a lot of times when I was like,when I first started, there, you know, like I said, every podcast mentioned their news, their, their email, like email me at, and it was a Gmail address because Gmail was new back then.

[00:08:40] That was like the first, the hottest, you know, way to email people. And it was always call the show. And there was a Google, you know, Google Voice or, and, or like K7 was something that we used to use way back in the day as well. And it was something that people would automatically do. And it was mentioned all the time on the show and audience feedback was.

[00:09:04] Featured in almost every episode. Reading, it wasn’t like a segment. It was part of the dialogue, part of the conversation all the time. And so there was always that back and forth. And that teaches that there’s, that I’m accessible to you. You can reach me. And be able to do that. Nowadays, it doesn’t have that.

[00:09:25] Sometimes it’s like, at the back end of things, they’re like, oh yeah, we need to have this, but I think it’s one of the key ways. Because social wasn’t even that, popular, but, not, didn’t really exist in the way that it exists nowadays, right? That was another way that we started to build it, but at first it was through email.

[00:09:42] So I do think that there has to be that dialogue set, and that’s going to really dictate whether or not the community aspect Really needs to happen because it’ll, it’ll start that dialogue and they will tell you what they want.

[00:09:59] Jeff Sieh: That’s a great point. Go ahead, Laura.

[00:10:01] Elsie Escobar: So

[00:10:01] Lauren Gaggioli: in the past, I’ve had a show that was being consumed, but, it wasn’t about a topic that people really wanted to spend more time on, right?

[00:10:11] So I was in the college admissions space and I was talking about test prep and things like that. And so. It was hard for me to get people out of their ear balls. Like once they got the information, then they were like, cool, I’m good. And so how do you, how do you encourage people to. Take action and engage.

[00:10:31] Obviously providing the channels is important. Do you give them like a clear call to action of what to do? Like, how do you inspire people to take more action and lean in? And I think particularly for folks selling broccoli, not popcorn or cotton candy. How do you

[00:10:46] Elsie Escobar: inspire that? Modeling it is probably one of the very first things that, was a trick that I used from the beginning and have always used from the beginning.

[00:10:58] So I’m going to let you guys know about this little trick. It’s kind of a little bit of a hack, but whenever we ask somebody to send me an email or send voice feedback or, you know, whatever we’re asking them to do. A lot of people, especially when they haven’t been around the podcasting space and they don’t really know about that stuff and they’re maybe outside in the same way that you were talking about, Lauren, with something that’s kind of outside of the regular podcasting vibe.

[00:11:25] They need to know what the heck you’re asking. So they’re like, email me. Like, what does that even mean? Right? So that’s when you can plant. A reading of an email that you got back, and within even the, the, your show, right? When you can say things like, thank you so much, Lauren for emailing me. This question was fantastic.

[00:11:47] And then you create an episode about that or gosh, Jeff. You, that I I’m so glad I connected with you. Thanks for taking a moment to email me about this thing. This is how blah, blah, blah. And then you talk about it within the show and that plants a seed on the listener that they’re like, Oh. They’re listening to, they’re picking stuff up.

[00:12:10] So that starts to teach that and it tells them how to do what you’re asking them to do and, and how you’re going to use it or why it matters to them. Because what I found for myself is I started to get questions about the, the first podcast that I ever listened to were about computing. Like computers, because I didn’t know how to use computers in all like transparency.

[00:12:35] I was like really scared about computers. I, subscribed to a podcast that was called Computing 101 and it was put on by Harvard University actually. And, it, now it’s part of, the EDU component of iTunes, but back in the day, that wasn’t it. And he was always saying like, Hey, email me with your computing questions.

[00:12:54] And I was like. Okay, and and it made me feel like I could ask the question to the teacher and so I did and he would Talk about the questions that he was getting, and so it made me feel empowered to send things in because I heard other people asking questions and having those questions answered, and it may, but it took me a while, and that’s the other thing, Lauren, it takes people, like, it’s scary to engage in that way, so you always have to think that sometimes it might take them a little bit of time to be able to To get forward.

[00:13:29] And the other thing is, there’s been a huge change in the industry. Maybe we can talk, as we move through, but I used to be so much easier for me to get feedback from people. Like I literally could just mention it randomly within a show and I would get like, 10 plus pieces of email coming back at me, people submitting things.

[00:13:48] Like it was so easy. I didn’t even have to work at it, which was such a privilege that I realize now. But nowadays so many people are asking so much of their audiences everywhere. And audiences are listening to so many different things that they can’t do. They’re like, it’s a full time job for an audience member to be giving feedback and or audience, whatever, to all the people that they listen to.

[00:14:11] Right. So it has to really align with that. that thing, that thing that you’re like, okay, this is really important to them. It behooves them to get the benefit of reaching out to you. Because if it’s just because you want feedback, you’re not going to get it.

[00:14:29] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. So, really quickly, I wanted to bring up some comments.

[00:14:33] So, one of the reasons I love this show so much is because I get to bring up comments and it is like, it’s feedback. It’s, it’s, otherwise I could just do a YouTube video and just throw up stuff. Yes. But I love this, like for Dustin says, He goes, Hey, I’m getting here a bit late, but a hugely important topic for its community, while not a podcaster, I spend a lot of time on this topic over the years, community is crucial, which Dustin does a great job around his, even his new AI tool, Magi, which is amazing, by the way, he’s on, he’s been on a couple shows back, but he also says, you know, and Gary Stockton chimed in, He says, Hey, Dustin Stout, we have a cool little community builder on the show.

[00:15:07] See, you guys are awesome. I love you guys, so much. but, you know, and even Bree says, love this, Elsie. This is fantastic advice over on LinkedIn. And this is a point that I want to talk about. And we’re going to dive into this a little bit more too. It’s Dustin brings up again. It’s very easy for communities to fizzle out.

[00:15:26] My product users are begging for community right now, but I’m afraid I don’t have the time energy to put into it. So I think that’s really crucial, and we’re going to talk about maybe some managing of communities a little bit later, and hopefully we’ll get to Dustin’s question. But, I wanted to get really quick before we move on, Elsie, can you give an example of like, a pivotal moment of feedback from your community that like shaped the direction of your podcast?

[00:15:47] Because I think a lot of people get some great ideas from that, like, something that happened that your, one of your communities said, you know like, you know what, we’re going to do that now on the podcast.

[00:15:54] Elsie Escobar: Yeah, this is probably not going to be the exact answer that you’re looking for me to give you, but it’s something that I really believe in nowadays.

[00:16:01] And I think especially as like somebody who’s been around for a while, stuff I didn’t really think about in the past, but it came from my very first podcast again, Elsie’s Yoga Class. I started that podcast. It was a live yoga class that I used to teach. I used to just record myself while I was teaching a live class.

[00:16:19] And, my focus was on the students that were in front of me. And I build a really solid, very vibrant community around that. They were really engaged. They were emailing me all the time, super, like, I mean, I was getting so much feedback from them. And then they started to ask for very specific things.

[00:16:40] Like, they became… very, a little extra engaged, and they were like, How come you don’t do classes that are 30 minutes? How come you don’t do classes that are 15? I really want a class that is, addressing my shoulder issue. I have a knee thing. Can you do a class for my knee? And so, I was like, okay. And, and the thing is, when I started, I, I wasn’t cre I created this show based on a situation that I had going on.

[00:17:10] And… I started to realize I don’t want to change my show for you. I’m the boss of my podcast. I find it very easy for me to teach a class based on the things that I’m interested in, and I’m glad you’re here. But I didn’t want to shift and pivot to start to create. A 15 minute class about shoulder pain, you know, how to deal with headaches for 30 minutes.

[00:17:40] Like, there’s actually, there are people right now that are teaching yoga classes and meditation classes exactly to that because those are keywords. Those are keywords that get you people downloading stuff. People are constantly searching for that stuff. It’s a fantastic tactic, not mine, right? It’s not, that was not the show I wanted to put out.

[00:18:03] I did not want to do 30 minutes to get your, you know, take care of your headache. Yoga class. That’s not what I wanted. And so I was like, okay, so now this gives me an idea of the boundaries that I want to put out and how I want to communicate that feedback back to them to say, thank you for whatever, right?

[00:18:22] And if and when I would have pursued monetizing that, I would have, I started to think through that and going, if these people want that, I’ll put that behind a paywall because that’s going to take me a lot more work to do. Then just whatever I want to teach. So, that was pivotal. So in that sense, what I’m saying to you is the community shaped my podcast because it made me, it showed me what I want and what I didn’t.

[00:18:49] And I think that’s a very interesting thing for you to note as a creator.

[00:18:53] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and that goes back to what I think Martin says here over on LinkedIn, he goes, you can have community but keep it within your defined community. You know, your audience, but also like, like you were saying, focus, like don’t let them shift you off of your goal that you started to serve your audience for in the first place.

[00:19:10] So that’s I love that

[00:19:12] Lauren Gaggioli: clarity of boundary and, and putting it through the lens of, yes, this is what they want. And I think sometimes as entrepreneurs, we’re just. Such givers. We wanna just give and give. But having that clarity of like, oh no, this is also for me, and knowing where like the paywall lies and all of that, that’s such a refined way to look at it.

[00:19:34] I, I really appreciate that clarity.

[00:19:37] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. I think that’s, that’s key. By the way, I was so excited to have Elon, I forgot to mention somebody who does have great. community, it’s our friends over at Ecamm, they’re the ones who sponsored this show. You can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive.

[00:19:51] com. Katie is in charge of their community and their marketing over there. She is amazing. If you’re struggling with Ecamm or you’ve just purchased it, hopefully you purchased it today by going… to that link right below. but she will help you out. The community there is amazing. They really do. They give trainings.

[00:20:05] They have podcasts. They have live video. They help you with the product. They have an incredible community. And so just go check them out. Once again, thank you for, for Ecamm for sponsoring the show. They are incredible. And speaking of somebody else who’s incredible, our friend Lou Mangiello popped in saying hi, Elise and Lauren, oh, and Jeff too.

[00:20:23] Thanks for that. Yay! Oh, and Jeff too. So let’s talk, this is why we want to get into some of this really, the nitty gritty of engagement strategies, like how as podcasters we can do this. So, you’ve talked about some, Elsie, but what are some other things maybe people have overlooked for effective strategies to grow that podcast community?

[00:20:44] Cause… I think there’s an opportunity here because there’s a lot of this big net, we talked about this a little bit in the pre show, but a lot of these big network podcasts that are out there, and they just kind of broadcast. They have, they’re really lacking in some of this community, and I think this is an opportunity for indie podcasters, where we can do this better than some of these big networks.

[00:21:04] So, what are some other strategies you’ve used to engage and grow your podcast community?

[00:21:11] Elsie Escobar: I think I mentioned earlier, you have to make sure that you mention how to join, how to join your community, whether it’s an end or whatever it is, right? You have to make sure you say, again, email the show. at this time.

[00:21:27] Contact me by going here. Every Wednesday I’m on Instagram Live. Come and hang out with us there. It’s been a great time. Or join the Facebook group because we do these things there. You don’t have to make it an ad. You can. You can interweave it. If you have an interview show, you could be having a conversation with, you know, with whoever you’re interviewing and then say, Oh my gosh, we just learned that in our Facebook community.

[00:21:53] We have a Facebook community that this conversation just came up. Like, it can be that organic within your mentioning, but you have to make sure that you mention it repeatedly at least three times. I’m just giving you numbers at least three times during the show every single time, and then tell them how to join.

[00:22:13] It’s a link in the top of the show notes. Just tap that link. You can, whatever it is, the call to action is, you can join the group. You could, whatever makes it easier for them to be able to do that. The next thing is that you have to make sure that they know why they should. Join, and I know that could be like a paragraph or more of you selling your community, but again, you could do it very easily.

[00:22:35] Find out what your next microphone, like with the Ecamm team, it’s like, come join the Facebook group at Ecamm because if you’re having trouble figuring out what camera to buy, you can go in there and find out in five minutes. You know what I mean? And then that enough is, that’s enough. There’s a lot more to the Ecamm community than what you just, you mentioned a bunch of stuff that they do, but that’s a pain point that a lot of content creators have.

[00:22:59] They’re like, they don’t know what to do or like, should I buy this? Should I not buy that? That in itself is a huge pain point that that community solves. So you have to know why they need to go in there because most people are going to go in there and just be like, hello.

[00:23:18] And then what? Like, why are they there? You know, they’re not going to engage. I mean, what are they going to do? So it has to be, you have to be clear. So those are two things. And I promise you, just do that a hundred percent for like six months straight. Just do that. And you’ll start to see that you’ll get a lot more people joining that community.

[00:23:41] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, our friend Lou Bunch, I’m gonna do, I’m gonna steal one of his secrets here. And Lauren, you know he does this all the time, is that, like, he can’t go live. Like, he usually goes live on Wednesday, and he does his podcast, and he also has a Wednesday night live show. But he couldn’t go live, and he, instead of, you know, just saying, hey, I can’t go live, he goes, hey, I can’t go live, he did a video, and said, tell me if we, if I could take you out to eat anywhere at Walt Disney World, where would we go?

[00:24:05] Boom. Those are questions his community chimed in on something that was, you know, perceived maybe as negative that he couldn’t show up, but he turned it into an opportunity to engage. And I think that kind of mindset is what you need when you’re thinking about, you know, creating community. So

[00:24:22] Elsie Escobar: anyway. And just to add to that, Jeff, that is beautiful because that was low pressure on the person who was answering.

[00:24:32] And I think what tends to happen whenever we ask these engagement questions with a lot of the communities out there, they are, especially with like, Maybe a show that’s a little more in depth. the questions tend to be a little too deep. Like you have to literally say what, like for me, like the way that I used to get people engaging with some of the stuff I was going, like if I was going to podcast movement, I’ll show the two dresses and go, which one?

[00:25:01] The pink one or the yellow one and have pictures. Mm hmm. And then people will go like pink one, yellow, You know, and then they start to do that instead of what’s the meaning of life? That’s right. That one thing that you would change Like, so what would you say to your face? You know, to your 13 year old self, or to your 21st year old self now, that you’re 50.

[00:25:25] I’d be like, I don’t want, what? Like, it’s too, we need a quick win. We need like a yay, no, oh. Like something that gets people to finish the sentence that only takes one sentence to write. And that’s a good, that’s a good starting point. Yeah,

[00:25:42] Jeff Sieh: yeah. Lauren, you had something?

[00:25:45] Elsie Escobar: No, I was just, that’s, that’s definitely something I’ve struggled with in the past.

[00:25:49] It’s like, let’s discuss

[00:25:51] Lauren Gaggioli: the meaning of life. I’m like, oh, we’ll see.

[00:25:54] Jeff Sieh: Or like, if, put in how much you make and then we’ll, you know, focus on like, I’m gonna. Okay. Yeah. Tell us, what bracket do you fall in? Yeah, sorry. so Brie says a great point, you can’t be everywhere, everything to everyone, you need to stay true to your vision and goals.

[00:26:08] Like you said, it’s your podcast to do the way, you know, while also keep your community in mind. And on that note, this is from Trevor and I don’t know exactly, is anyone doing podcast hybrid communities effectively? I don’t know what a podcast hybrid community is. Do you know, Elsie? Trevor, maybe you can explain a little more what that is because that sounds intriguing.

[00:26:27] But I don’t know what a hybrid

[00:26:28] Elsie Escobar: community is. Yeah, I’m not sure what that, I’m not sure exactly what that means. Other, yeah, I’m not, I’m not sure what that means. I mean, I’m, I think all of our stuff is hybrid, but that’s

[00:26:38] Jeff Sieh: okay. Gary’s still trying to figure out the meaning of life. Me too, Gary. I think it’s 42, isn’t it?

[00:26:42] Didn’t it supposed to be 42? Yes, that’s what it is. That’s the answer. Yes, so, Elsie, this is the question to, in, and I ask this of a lot of people who have communities. How do you handle feedback? I mean, you mentioned, like, you only take what you need to take in, but, so, to be, still be, like, you don’t want to shut somebody down, like, that’s stupid, don’t tell me about a 15 minute yoga session.

[00:27:06] So, how do you continue to make it be inclusive and supportive, when you get that positive and, many times, negative feedback?

[00:27:15] Elsie Escobar: I think, you know, that, that whole positive sandwich is always a really wonderful thing. Now, before, before, I used to handle most of the things within an email, and that’s, feels like a really, like, to me, that was the, the best place to do that, where people can send that stuff in, and you can just respond to it, and, and be done with it, usually, right?

[00:27:35] And you just go back and forth in a real genuine way, and saying like, oh, thank you so much, that’s a great idea. I’ll consider it, you know, that something like that. And email goes away. There you go. But nowadays, communities are so visible. so you, you might have whatever group, wherever it is that you have.

[00:27:52] And then somebody could say like, Oh my God, why don’t you do a, you know, a 30 minute yoga class on headaches? And then I’ll be like, Oh yeah, that would be great. Oh yeah, that would be amazing. Why don’t you do that? And then it just starts to grow, grow, grow, grow. That’s when you’re able to go in there as a community leader and be incredibly, incredibly.

[00:28:11] honoring why you created the space, which I believe was, was said here and be able to say something like, wow, you guys are, this is incredible. I will see if we can execute on something like that in the future. Right now we’re going to be. So, we’re gonna be doing these things because this podcast or this space is about XYZ.

[00:28:32] And so we’ll consider opening up some of that stuff, especially if more people start to ask for it. but at the time, this is what we’re focusing on. So, those are skills that we do have to… Pay attention to, not to dismiss it, but also you as a leader, especially when your community is growing and they keep asking for that 30 minute headache yoga class.

[00:28:55] You might just be like, you know what? I guess they really, really need it. And therefore you can put it in your, you can plan for it. You can see how much space you have. to be able to create something like that. But at the same time, be super honest about the stuff that’s going out there. I’ve gotten, you know, positive and negative things coming my way, in communities.

[00:29:16] And, and you have to be able to right away look at it in the face. Read it and the first, especially if it’s a negative comment, because for positive comments, of course, you’re like, oh, that was so nice. but for negative comments, our first thing is always like, you know, oh my God. And you get defensive because.

[00:29:37] For whatever reason, whether they’re telling you, whatever, right? Your audio quality sucks. Your topics are like, how come you had that guest on? I really hate the way that you, you know, chew on the mic. I don’t know. Like there’s whatever, all the things. People are incredibly, they just start telling you stuff.

[00:29:53] Part of it is the, the first thing you have to do is to be able to sit with the, the, the openness to see if anything that they’re telling you. You have to own that for yourself, whatever that is. If it is about audio quality and that it’s really sucky, you have to sit with that and you have to be like, okay, how, okay, let me consider that maybe it is, right?

[00:30:24] Because there’s, that’s, that’s a truth that’s really hard. And then sometimes we have. You know, crappy audio quality because of life situations, life circumstances. We don’t have the privilege, like right now, I finally, after I think 15 years into podcasting, I now have a studio. 15 years prior to that, I was on my bed.

[00:30:44] I was in a closet. I was in the bathroom. I was in the living room. I was like anywhere and everywhere recording. So now I, I can finally be in that place. And so you have to allow yourself to see like, what can I do given my circumstances to be better at XYZ? Whatever that is, but if it’s not true, you also have to be able to Take that in and very gently be able to say, like, thanks so much for your feedback.

[00:31:13] I appreciate you taking the time to listen to this show. Yes, be very diplomatic about it. Emoji! Emoji! That’s my, every time, emoji heart. Exclamation point. It’s that’s, that’s the way that I deal with a lot of

[00:31:29] Lauren Gaggioli: that stuff. And most of these are exclamation points as a mindset buffer.

[00:31:38] Jeff Sieh: So, cause I get like, even now I’m sure with this episode, cause, you’ve talked about audio quality, somebody will say like, I can hear the noise, noise gate when you talk on your, on your, mic. And I’m like, yeah. Because there’s an air conditioner, it’s hot in Texas, and I choose to be not dripping with sweat, and so, you know, you’re just gonna have to deal with that stuff as it comes, so, Lauren, you had something that you wanted to bring up?

[00:31:59] Yeah,

[00:31:59] Elsie Escobar: so, you know, we’ve

[00:32:00] Lauren Gaggioli: talked about having people engage with you directly, but then we’ve sort of moved into, it sounds like social spheres more, and like how to facilitate, communities more like on Facebook or Instagram. Do you have any, strategies, like any best practices? Is there a particular social platform that works best?

[00:32:21] That you’ve found? Does it depend? I’d love to know more about like, once you have people engaging via email and you have that one-to-one, what’s the next step for somebody

[00:32:32] Elsie Escobar: who’s starting out? Oh my goodness gracious. Mind you, the, I, I feel the social spaces right now are in a volatile space. Mm-hmm. . so what was true three months ago is not true now.

[00:32:49] Like, it’s just that. Much before it’s it’s been fairly steady for since I’ve been around really in terms of changing, ebbing and flowing. But there’s such volatility, I think around everywhere else. I just want to call that out because I, I can’t, it’s not the same place. It was the end. It’s just not social as a whole is not the same place it was.

[00:33:09] And so, there are some things that,

[00:33:12] So, to know who your audience is when you’re building community outside of the email, meaning is your, where is your audience number one, right? Because people who are, if you’re trying to build a conversation around tech and around gadgets and around, you know, coding, they will probably not be on Facebook.

[00:33:33] So they’re going to be maybe on Mastodon. And that’s where you go, or a Discord channel, or they are running their own stuff, you know, and they’re, they’ve coded it themselves, or like, that’s something that they would be re, even a normal, like a regular forum, they, people, those types of folks would be very comfortable understanding how to do all of that stuff, like a Reddit, a subreddit, that’s where they would go, but then if you’re dealing with maybe, Mom’s in their 40s.

[00:34:04] They probably will be more apt to going into Facebook because they’re probably already there, and that’s the least, friction that they would have from moving them from one place to the next again. The younger generation. Do you? Can you even build a TikTok type community? Right? Like, how do you even do that?

[00:34:23] Like, how do you get that? I’m sure. And I’m sure that there’s all kinds of solutions to All of those things. Instagram right now with broadcast channels. That’s another way to like really build a little community that where you can’t communicate to each other. There’s also the WhatsApp. I’ll be at all, which is for, you know, podcasts that are outside of the U.

[00:34:43] S. That’s where you build the stuff, right? Anything that’s outside of the U. S., they’re building all kinds of amazing communities on WhatsApp because everybody uses WhatsApp. They are using it in that, from that capacity. So you got to really know where your audience is and what they’re comfortable using to be able to engage.

[00:35:02] there’s tons of. Beautiful platforms, like Circle that have been created just to, you know, in mighty networks to just build communities and all the stuff I have tested every single one of them. They have filled my heart with the design and with the capabilities and with all the stuff that can be done.

[00:35:21] Oh, the dreams and yet. The people don’t ever come. Right. They don’t wanna show up and engage there. And so it’s like, it’s such a heartbreak. Yeah. And you, it has to be like, you’ve gotta constantly be investing in nurturing those conversations in such like a hardcore way. So, Unfortunately, there are no best practices for doing that, other than really know your audience and know what their capacity is to take action.

[00:35:54] Because I’ve been there, we, like for She Podcasts, we tried, I hate Facebook, okay? I started to want to move out of Facebook like four years ago. I’m like, I can’t handle it. We need to move. We blah, blah. For the love of God, we tried everything. Nobody’s going. You know, nobody’s moving. Nobody trying. Nobody.

[00:36:19] And then we, and then I started to go like, I’m not even going to these other groups that we’ve created in these other places. How am I supposed to get these people to do that too? So it’s, you, you, you learn. And so we’ve, I’ve, I’ve given up. Now, the other thing is that Facebook, and this is a wonderful, example of, of what could happen.

[00:36:41] When you are using a, somebody else’s, Playground, if you will, and you are using that, you have no control over a lot of things. So we started Shee Podcast as a very small, intimate community. We all kind of sort of knew each other, or somebody knew somebody that knew each other and all that kind of stuff.

[00:37:00] Right. And it grew and it was great, and it felt so intimate and lovely and it grew and it grew. And then Facebook started to do the whole like, groups are amazing. And they started to really promote groups within the platform. And it, Like, we have over 22, 000 people in that thing now. And they just keep coming.

[00:37:20] And most of these people have zero idea about She Podcast, who started the show, like, w what we are, what we stand for, like, they’re just coming. And everybody’s like, Hey, what’s up? This is my group now. You know, and you’re like, wait, wait, what? And even with all of the… systems, you know, the questions that you can ask, the opt ins that you ask them to do, like, all of those things.

[00:37:44] There’s, it’s still, there’s, it’s too much. Facebook is, it, there’s no vetting. It just keeps growing. And, and so you don’t know if you’re going to end up where the, the thing takes a life of its own. And you’re just like, I don’t, this is not, this is a whole new place that we created, but it’s now its own thing.

[00:38:05] Right? So you gotta be ready for that, too.

[00:38:08] Jeff Sieh: That is true. It’s somebody else’s playground and you never know what’s gonna happen. So I wanna, like, maybe focus a little bit on some of the tech for podcasts. I know you mentioned, you know, back in the day there were some tools for getting engagement or maybe, like, letting people communicate to your podcast.

[00:38:24] I know Speakpipe is one that I know a lot of podcasters use. Are there any other, like, like, tech that would fall into, like, helping build community? That you would recommend or that you’ve seen other podcasters use, Elsie?

[00:38:37] Elsie Escobar: I think that as of now, like one of the, it’s not even tech, but that I have seen work very well across social is hashtags.

[00:38:48] and you know, there’s a lot of, if you can really find a hashtag that you can have your audience really use. Again, you have to tell people, tell people all the time. One of my favorite podcast is called Mac Power Users. And then they’re using a hashtag called AskMPU. So it’s hashtag AskMPU. And if you use that hashtag, or you did prior to, again, the way social now is, it’s completely different.

[00:39:16] You’ve had to like pivot also with a lot of stuff. it was using that hashtag, AskMPU, and then they would pull, like into a spreadsheet. Anybody who met, who had AskMPU, and they would just call the conversations based on that, and people would come back and forth. You could follow the hashtag, you could see those conversations happening, and I saw that happen.

[00:39:38] On Twitter mostly, or X mostly. And, Instagram, you can also do the, the same type of thing. I have seen podcasts use hashtags on Instagram for the same thing. I’ve seen a little bit of that happen on TikTok, even though I don’t really use TikTok too much. I usually just follow, whenever I see something fun like.

[00:39:55] Like the podcast are using communities in that way. That’s a really wonderful way to do it. but in terms of building communities, I would say, you know, if you really love to build your own thing, Discord is probably one of the best places for you to, to start doing something like that. I have seen some really great communities on Slack as well, but again, Slack could be very good for more like a business type of a vibe community.

[00:40:25] So you gotta know where folks are vibing with whatever it is that you’re doing.

[00:40:30] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think that’s true. And I want to bring up, Gary says this, Dave Jackson does a Question of the Month, which drives community engagement and content for his episodes, which is very, very smart. Thanks for Gary. And I wanted to bring up, because we’re going to be talking about this last section, is sustaining community.

[00:40:44] And, you know, Gary and, you know, Dustin were talking in the community, and to me, when I see community members talking amongst themselves, solving problems, you know, chatting, that to me is like, okay, I’m on to something, or these people really enjoy the community. So how do you do that, Elsie? How do you encourage community members to interact not just with you and, you know, what you’re saying, but to each other?

[00:41:06] Because I really think that’s when you’ve… You’ve hit the goldmine is when they start, you know, interacting and it’s their community, not really yours.

[00:41:14] Elsie Escobar: This is when we do once again that, what I said before, you got to model it. Modeling it is one of the best things that you can do. Modeling it first, starting with you as the leadership person, and then having moderators or somebody who is, who are, you know, team members or community members that you, that have somehow brought a lot of value to you.

[00:41:38] If you do have the funds. You know, you can always invest on community moderators and or a lot of them, they just come up, and having them model for you that behavior. So what does that look like? You guys do, post that are like that and they will engage with you. So you have a group of people that model how to build with that, with one another and you affirm.

[00:42:02] The good stuff. That’s like something that we as leaders need to do as well. When I come into a chat or something, I will go in there and go like this. I love this so much. You guys are doing so great. Thanks for helping each other. Right? You always highlight how, what the type of behavior that you want to be having in there.

[00:42:18] That’s one of the key things. The other thing is exactly what, you know, Dave does. Some of that stuff in terms of the question of the month or whatever. Right. And, and, or some stable. question things where you can have something about like, let’s share, let’s support each other. It’s a supporting thread today.

[00:42:36] We’re supporting each other with. And you can be very specific about what that support thing is and you can ask, you know, find, are you looking for a, you know, video editor for your podcast? Let’s, you know, let’s have a thread over here and then have them start with those communities. You can start to see the things that resonate the most by observing that conversation within your, within your, group.

[00:42:58] But you always have to call it out. So if that. You have to be a top of mind. You have to be in there. You and or your mods have to be in there constantly affirming and modeling the behavior that you want in the group versus just thinking magically it’s going to happen, right? Yeah, so the the flip

[00:43:20] Lauren Gaggioli: side of that, of course, is That’s kind of what you’ve mentioned about like the runaway train of social and balloons like

[00:43:28] Elsie Escobar: so you can model

[00:43:29] Lauren Gaggioli: the good, but as we know, the comment sections are always.

[00:43:35] It’s fun to look at. When you are the person in charge and the leader of a group, even when it has ballooned and it’s no longer people you know personally and can, you know, have that trust with, how do you handle creating a space that’s safe for everyone? How do you handle the negative and the flip side of that?

[00:43:56] What do you, what, what do you guys do to, to curb that, I suppose?

[00:44:02] Elsie Escobar: You must. Write down what you stand for. You must write that down. Like what, think of the absolutely worst thing that can happen in that community. Like the worst thing. And you need to start to write a response to it. What are the words you’re going to be using?

[00:44:27] How are you going to put it out there? What are you willing to stand for? What are you willing to not? And you gotta go to the boundaries, and you have to build off of that. You also have to be absolutely 100% clear as to what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. And it doesn’t, it’s not just about rules and regulations, it’s about enforcement of those rules and regulations.

[00:44:53] And the capacity for you and your team to be able to do that is of utmost importance. If you cannot do that, and you are, Wanting to have a safe space? You’re, you’re not being responsible. I would rather you not start a community because the hurt that that would cause and how it will divert into a situation that is too volatile is

[00:45:26] You have to be willing to take on that responsibility and or have a team that can help support you in that process because it’s your, it’s like, that was, that’s been the biggest, I think the biggest lesson as a leader, the, the mind space, the weight of. A community going wrong in your, and how it will disrupt your days is something you have to understand, like it’s not, you cannot just be like, I’m just going to close my eyes and I’m pretending it’s not happening, because nowadays, you can’t have that, you can’t.

[00:46:11] And so I have been in a position where, regardless, where, especially in a public setting, when people are calling you out. You have got to have,something. Something ready to go when that happens. What is the protocol? And you’ve got to sit down and talk through every single thing. And who is going to have your back when it’s happening?

[00:46:32] What are the words that are going to be used? Are you willing to stand by the words that you’re putting out? And are you willing to stand by the words that you’re putting out when somebody screenshots it and shares it all over social? So you got to be, you got to be ready to own all of that. And I don’t think a lot of people really think through much of that stuff that happens.

[00:46:55] I’ve seen many communities implode and explode because of lack of vision in that sense. So the capacity you have as a leader is of utmost important to hold that space.

[00:47:10] Jeff Sieh: That’s really good advice. And can you kind of maybe put some meat on that bone a little bit, like with… Like, for hate speech, it’s an automatic ban if they are kind of being inappropriate, like, three strikes, you’re out.

[00:47:24] How do you, how do you set those rules and limits in that community? I’m assuming that, like, you have, like you said, you want to have something ready and ready to go. Do you have that planned out even before you start a community, and does that shift over time? Like, the rules, I think, is, I think is really important, and I’m sure, I’m assuming that’s different for everybody, but I just want to know your thoughts on how to set that up.

[00:47:45] Like, what’s automatically kicked out, what’s like, okay, maybe they said it in a wrong way, and they just aren’t good at, you know, their words. I mean, how do you figure all that out?

[00:47:58] Elsie Escobar: You gotta look, you gotta lurk, you gotta listen, and you’ve gotta do your research. Meaning, you cannot just stay in a silo in your own community. You have to participate in other people’s communities. You have to read about communities. You have to read about community building. You have to lurk in the comments.

[00:48:17] You have to see when situations arise. And then you have to have your own little wiki. Where like, oh my god, they handled that really well. Copy paste. Oh my God, that’s really great language. you know what I mean? Wow. This like really imploded. Oh, whoa. Oh, that was really well done. Oh, that was not so great.

[00:48:36] Right? So we are right currently, as of now, you know, Zoom has just released a couple of things that have really made people angry. And, you know, one of them with the privacy thing happening with AI and Zoom. And the other one is that they’re, you know, wanting people to come into the office and work, and it’s just.

[00:48:52] It’s kind of like made a lot of things happen. This is a really wonderful opportunity for all of us as business owners, because whether we want to or not, our podcast could possibly be a business and, or if it’s not, and it’s just a hobby, you’re still in a position of leadership, you’re essentially the CEO of your hobby without pay.

[00:49:14] So, you got to know how to be able to respond to situations like a grownup. And be able to manage what those things are. And it comes always from your value systems. But the way that I’ve learned, what I’ve learned is by paying attention to what’s happening, especially in communities that are the most vulnerable and to be able to.

[00:49:38] Be able to see how they manage themselves and also to understand that any community that you build, you always have to look at the most vulnerable first, because those are the folks that are often. immediately silenced and or dismissed and you either are willing to stand up for whoever that is in your community and or you are not but you are making a choice you’re making a choice so folks will speak to one another and especially those that are of more vulnerable communities will immediately leave and that’s okay That’s perfectly fine because we all need to take care of ourselves, but you will be starting to nurture a community that is of one type of a community.

[00:50:26] as a leader, you will always be uncomfortable. You will always doubt what you’re going to be saying. Things will be changing all the time. Language and the use of language is going to be changing almost from year to year. This word’s not okay to say that word’s okay to say, this is the new word we’re now using.

[00:50:44] Oh my God. Okay. So like you have to either abide by that or not. And people are going to model how you.

[00:50:57] be ready for that and it’s always about learning and speaking of sustainability, you have to be ready for that. And if that’s not something you want to do, then don’t have a community or don’t have you know, being safe and feeling heard as one of your tenants, right?

[00:51:18] Jeff Sieh: So, yeah, one of the, the, kind of, I’ll let Lauren have the last question.

[00:51:23] So, Lauren, think of a good one. my last one will be, you know, you’ve kind of mentioned, like, don’t have a community. And, you know, if you’re putting a podcast out and it becomes popular, you’re going to have some sort of community, I think, somewhere. Like, they’ll either, you know, make one of their own or, or whatever.

[00:51:38] And I know a lot of people are like, listen, I’m struggling with putting a podcast together. And now I’ve got to think about putting a community, I mean like, so how do you balance this? Because you run, you know, you have ShePodcast, and you also have Libsyn, which are, those are big communities. Like, how do you balance the demands of producing these great podcasts with, you know, the nurturing a community at the same time?

[00:52:00] I’d love to know how you’re doing it.

[00:52:02] Elsie Escobar: Yeah, I think that part of it is with She Podcast, I’ve really stepped away from being there now for I think now going on three years as in like on the day I used to be like, like, answering everybody’s questions and all that stuff. And there comes a point where I think When the pandemic hit, it really changed so many different things, and my capacity was at, you know, I think all of us hit a wall at some point, or all of us have to realign where we need to do our things, right?

[00:52:32] And so I have stepped away from that. There is a team that Jess works with that is managing a lot of the community that goes in there, but like in my mind space, I just could no longer be present in the way that I had been in the past. So there’s that aspect that sometimes you have to make calls. So that’s one thing in order for you to sustain yourself.

[00:52:53] when it comes to, being able to create content and nurture our community on the feed, the official lips and podcast, my, community is all based and handled via email. and on the show. And so that is what my capacity is to be able to do that. And so we do get a lot of feedback. We do get audio feedback.

[00:53:15] I asked for it a lot during the show. And then we craft our episodes largely around it. That communication between Rob and I, it is a community driven show and it is by choice. We’ve decided to do that. It’s where we give voice to questions that are coming out, address conversations that are within the community, things that are coming to me, things that are coming to Rob, and then we bring those together through audio feedback.

[00:53:42] I very rarely engage with the community outside of email. So I can manage that. I process the email twice a, like two, every other week. So, you know, fortnightly, I process the email and I’m able to get all that stuff done. We put it on the show and then we kind of take care of it that way because that’s the, what the capacity is for being able to do something like that and doesn’t add so much.

[00:54:10] Now, if I was only focusing on creating the podcast. minus the other titles that I have to, you know, thing, I would probably expand a lot more on that. I’ve tried to create. Other than feed groups, I love to test things out with that group, but again, I always find myself, I can’t sustain it, you know, and it’s so hard because I want it, but then I’m like, I’m not there.

[00:54:34] Like I, they need me at first. So you have to really do that. We’ve had meetups. We’ve had great meetups in the past. I’d love to do more of those. I think that that would be really fun. But again, I’m thinking like, what’s the meetup about? Like, do we talk podcasting? Is there a, What do we do? Right? So there’s all kinds of things that happens when it comes to that stuff.

[00:54:57] those are some of the answers that I’ve come up with in terms of… Yes, you get overwhelmed, but you have to be very clear about what your capacity is. Like, there’s no, it’s the same question. What you’re saying about community is the same thing about social. I was just talking to somebody else who was like, I’m just trying to get through the show.

[00:55:15] Do I really have to create all this stuff every, you know, we’re all going through it.

[00:55:21] Jeff Sieh: Lauren, you have the last question.

[00:55:22] Elsie Escobar: I just

[00:55:23] Lauren Gaggioli: so appreciate the, the full scope of visibility you’re giving to the challenges. And I think that, you know. укaz incoming양who Moms安全局.

[00:55:41] Thank you to All these, all these things that we’re using to like guide this, it’s like a whole other full time job. So I’m so grateful to you for the visibility you’re giving us to the challenges and the downside. I, I do wonder because we sort of started by saying like socials changed so much in the last three months.

[00:56:02] Did you bring your crystal

[00:56:03] Elsie Escobar: ball?

[00:56:03] Lauren Gaggioli: Do you have any predictions for like where we’re headed? I mean, you’ve been in this space for a long time and you’ve watched a lot of different trends. Do you have any sense of what we’re being pulled towards and, and sort of where we’re going next in terms of community building and specifically community building for

[00:56:20] Elsie Escobar: podcasters?

[00:56:22] Yeah, so what I think is intimacy, And privacy. Those are two key things that I’m feeling from communities. and. Also as community as the thing, meaning the community is the center versus a, I can’t, I know it’s not a marketing tool, but it’s like versus a marketing tool or as in another way to grow your podcast, but community as the thing.

[00:56:50] because there is a huge need from people to connect with one another. And that in itself is the product. Meaning people are looking to network, they’re looking to connect, they’re looking to talk, they’re looking to feel validated in their experience in intimate settings where they feel safe. that’s what I have seen in my, in my neck of the woods, right?

[00:57:14] This might not be what you’ve been seeing and depending upon where or what type of industry you are podcasting and or about. I know that I have done a few. Meetups, virtual meetups that have been very well attended in the sense that, Anywhere from like 12 to about 20 people showing up to just be together and talk.

[00:57:42] And I, they, they’ve given me a lot back. I, and so I’m thinking, and so again, as of now. The non scalable is what’s really calling my name, and I have seen work in a lot of different ways, so the value of that, I’m not sure in terms of business and ROI, how much that is, right? But I do know that that’s where it’s leaning.

[00:58:08] So a little bit more on the intimate side, a little bit more on the privacy side and a little bit of the community being the thing versus a growing tactic, because people are gonna be a lot more discerning about where they spend their time. In fact, they’re already doing that. So if you get them to show up to these, little meetups or they’re in a smaller community, you’re already winning.

[00:58:30] Cuz the kind of interaction you’re gonna get is by far going to go beyond the, what dress do you want me to wear kind of question. And all of the, you know, and all the answers you’re gonna get about that because that’s great engagement but You know, the depth is what’s missing.

[00:58:49] Jeff Sieh: This is such good, we’ve had, like Walter even said, this is such a great conversation.

[00:58:53] Thank you, Walter, over on LinkedIn for chiming in. I could, I could nerd out about this stuff all day, but we are short on time. But I wanted to give Elsie and Lauren enough time to tell where they can find their communities, where they can find everything that they’re doing. So, Elsie, I’ll let you go first.

[00:59:08] Where can people find out about you? I think

[00:59:11] Elsie Escobar: as of now, if you follow me on social at TheLCEscobar, I mainly hang on Instagram and threads, oh my god, but I am, but I am everywhere, but I’m just there enough to like, you know, pop in here and there, so that’s One of the best, and my podcast, you know, The Feed, the official Libsyn podcast.

[00:59:32] Please come and watch that, and also our YouTube channel, youtube. com slash, at Libsyn. You can see a lot of our work that we put out there just all for podcasters. So if you can subscribe to that channel, it would be. Fabulous.

[00:59:47] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. Lauren Gai, holy guacamole. Lauren Gaulle. Where, where can they find you?

[00:59:52] Lauren Gaggioli: my website, which is right there, everything I do lives there. So Lauren, gai, lots of G’s, lot, a couple L’s in the mix and, yeah, come, come check it out. We’ve got a lot of stuff, around ss e o and organic marketing, as well as naming your purpose and mindset. So if you’re an entrepreneur, A lot of what I think Elsie and I are, are simpatico, so

[01:00:17] Elsie Escobar: I’m,

[01:00:18] Jeff Sieh: come on over.

[01:00:18] You’re also a performer, which I, we didn’t get a chance to talk about because you both do that stuff, but for those who are listening to the podcast, Lauren is spelled, you know, Lauren, and then G A G G I O L I, if you want to find out her, find out more about her at, As always, we talked about community.

[01:00:32] I would not want to do this show without you guys. I hope this is a community, a place where you can ask your questions. I appreciate Walter. Bree even says, I really enjoyed this conversation. So many great nuggets. Elsie, you always inspire me. Thanks to you all. We appreciate you. Appreciate Dustin.

[01:00:48] Webmaster Jeep Talk Show. Everybody who stopped by today, Trevor,Bree, and Martin, and Lou, everybody, thank you guys so much, we appreciate you, and we will see you guys next week. Bye, everybody.