πŸ”” Dive into the world of “Boosting Creativity with AI” with our special guest, Katie Richman.

Katie, with her vast experience from Loud Labs to major tech giants, has harnessed the power of AI to revolutionize creative processes. We’ll uncover her secrets on collaborating with AI for brainstorming, her unique approach to treating AI as a “human junior partner,” and how AI can be the game-changer in creative endeavors.

Unlock the future of creativity with AI insights from Katie! πŸš€

Enhancing Creativity with AI: Insights from Innovator Katie

Embracing AI as a Creative AllyArtificial intelligence (AI) holds immense potential for amplifying human creativity and imagination. As advanced AI systems like ChatGPT emerge, people are exploring how to best collaborate with AI to generate innovative ideas and artistic content. This article summarizes key insights from a podcast featuring Katie, a pioneer in creatively applying AI.

Cultivating an AI Partner Mindset

Katie stresses viewing AI as a collaborative partner rather than just a tool. She suggests picturing AI as an intern or junior team member – brilliant but lacking domain expertise. By investing time explaining your goals, constraints, and preferences, you can coach AI to become more valuable over multiple interactions. Katie illustrated jointly writing a bedtime story for her daughter with ChatGPT. She provided initial guidance so ChatGPT would take the story creatively. Then she alternated paragraphs with ChatGPT to shape an imaginative narrative. This approach tapped into AI’s creative abilities for a unique story.

Planning Successful AI Brainstorming

For generating creative concepts and strategies with AI, Katie recommends a three-phase approach:

Pre-Brainstorm Set Up

Clarify your objectives, limits, and preferences. Provide any required context to AI.

Brainstorming Session

Iteratively exchange ideas with AI, redirecting as needed. Don’t just accept early suggestions – push for novel thinking.

Post-Brainstorm Review

Assess AI’s contributions. Identify the most promising concepts for further refinement. Katie emphasizes clearly conveying desired outcomes to AI beforehand. And reviewing the results later allows focusing on the strongest ideas.

Eliciting AI Imagination

To stimulate AI creativity, Katie suggests prompting it to “think outside the box” and go beyond obvious solutions. For example, when brainstorming blog post topics, she might request “Suggest 10 article ideas that avoid common tropes and take a novel perspective.”Katie also recommends explicitly asking AI for unknown unknowns – concepts you may have overlooked. Queries like “What key points am I not considering?” can reveal unexplored creative directions.

The Future of AI-Enhanced Creativity

As AI capabilities advance, Katie foresees immense potential to infuse creativity into all facets of business and life. She believes AI will increasingly personalize and customize content, products, and experiences for each person. Location-aware apps will harness AI to engage people with timely, tailored offerings based on their context.

However, Katie emphasizes that human imagination and empathy will remain vital to guiding AI’s evolution. Our choices today will shape the creative teammate AI becomes tomorrow.

Key Takeaways for Unlocking AI’s Creative Potential

  • Approach AI as a creative partner, not just a tool.
  • Provide sufficient background for AI to generate relevant concepts.
  • Collaborate with AI to yield innovative thinking.
  • Explicitly request β€œoutside the box” ideas from AI.
  • Human creativity and ethics are instrumental in shaping AI’s future.

By reframing our AI interactions and structuring collaborative creative workflows, we can unleash AI’s immense imaginative abilities. With thoughtful human leadership, AI holds immense promise for amplifying human creativity at unprecedented scale.

SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated byΒ Descript.Β  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks, welcome to Social Media News Live, I’m Jeff Sieh, and you’re not.

[00:00:04] Conor Brown: And I’m Connor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media and more.

[00:00:11] Jeff Sieh: Have you ever wondered how to fully harness the power of AI to amplify your creative endeavors? Maybe you’re curious about the transformative potential of artificial intelligence in the creative process. Or maybe you’re eager to dive deep into the synergy between human creativity and AI. If those thoughts capture your interest…

[00:00:29] Then you are in for a treat today. We’re so excited to introduce a guest who stands at the crossroads of creativity and technology. Katie Richmond, a trailblazer in the tech world has some great insights in the way that we approach AI in the realm of creativity. She’ll be sharing her expertise, her experiences, her innovative methods, and her insights on maximizing creativity.

[00:00:53] So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind and get ready for this week’s episode of social. Katie, once again, I’m so excited. This is going to be awesome.

[00:01:03] Katie Richman: Oh my gosh, this is so great. And then I’m saying hi to my other Katie from UK.

[00:01:07] Jeff Sieh: Oh, yes. We have some, we have

[00:01:10] Katie Richman: Bring more in.

[00:01:11] Jeff Sieh: and like,

[00:01:12] Katie Richman: I worked at Facebook, there was a Katie Club. So there’s all these internal workplace, I could talk about all this stuff now. And there was a club of just people named Katie. And there were like eight of us.

[00:01:21] I know that’s how many people were there by the end of it. Sorry.

[00:01:24] Jeff Sieh: So Jim, my friend, Jim saying, I’m really into the AI world and that’s traveling at light speed. Yes, it’s Jim. It really is. And he goes, looking forward to inspiration from a freewheeling conversation. Oh yeah, it’s going to

[00:01:35] Katie Richman: Ah, you found your best friends then.

[00:01:38] Jeff Sieh: That’s right. so, I wonder if you guys don’t know who Katie is.

[00:01:42] I want to introduce you really quick. She is a 20 plus year tech veteran with experience at major media companies, startups, and big tech. She’s the co founder of Loud Labs, where she creates AR location based apps that utilize AI to encourage users to engage. more with the world around them. She also consults with senior business leaders, ensuring their AI and emerging tech goals align with their business goals.

[00:02:07] And you want to check her out at the TechNormal blog on Medium. It’s amazing. It’s a, so many good articles there.

[00:02:12] Katie Richman: you. You’re motivating me. I’m overdue. So I’ll do one this weekend.

[00:02:15] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And she’s, you can also find her on LinkedIn and we’ll, we’ll put her up on screen. But if you’re listening to the podcast, it’s linkedin. com forward slash I N forward slash Katie Richman. That’s R I C H M A N. So make sure you guys check her out there today. Let’s just, before we go on, I want to do a really quick shout out to our sponsors that I mentioned when I was just at their camp.

[00:02:35] They’re amazing. You can find out more about them at

[00:02:37] Katie Richman: I was

[00:02:39] Jeff Sieh: yeah, socialmedianewslive. com forward slash Ecamm. They’re what makes this show possible. They, they just came out with a new version. You need to check it out. There’s so many cool things about them, out, socialmedianewslive. com forward slash Ecamm.

[00:02:52] All right, we’re gonna jump into this because I know that I’m gonna run out of time because there’s so many cool things. That I wanna talk about. So Katie, you have a

[00:03:00] Katie Richman: I mean, should I set up where I’m coming

[00:03:02] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go ahead,

[00:03:04] Katie Richman: No. Okay. So why am I even sitting here? so I started first half of my career worked in big media. I did New York. I did MTV to Oxygen. Shout out to my Oxygen friends. and then I did almost 10 years at ESPN, but across maybe five different things.

[00:03:19] So came over as a production manager for X Games and WinnerX, which was eye opening. I could not believe the pace and learned all of my operational skills doing that. then went and helped found ESPNW and at the same time, kind of met these guys through so early social data. So I used to speak in. New York City quite a bit, just about the value of social across industries.

[00:03:41] So this AI conversation is really timely. I went to Facebook, I got a job offer on LinkedIn, almost ignored it, and then, ended up out. So now I’m out in Silicon Valley, and I was at Facebook slash Metta for almost, eight years. And kind of with all of the change happening, took advantage, took some of my stuff.

[00:04:01] I’m finally working on an early stage startup. That’s again at the crossroads of your real life and what’s going on digitally. So we can talk about that later, but fascinated with AI. I was a goner the first time.

[00:04:18] Jeff Sieh: Oh, I lost Katie. Oh, there you’re,

[00:04:20] Katie Richman: Oh, sorry guys. Oh, I don’t know what is wrong. Okay. But yeah, I was just saying that I, I got into AI and was a goner from the get go. Like I honestly touched chat GPT and the way it wrote back to me, I think, made me realize this was pretty fundamental. And so now I’m kind of on a crusade to show creative.

[00:04:42] People and business people, that this is not a tech tool anymore. And please welcome back to Silicon Valley, you know, computer science folks are still going to be really important. But those of us coming from video have a lot to offer, the broadcast side. So this is the time to jump in.

[00:04:59] Jeff Sieh: yeah, so I, I wanna talk ’cause there’s two articles. I mean, your, your Medium blog is amazing and there’s one article that really stood out to me about brainstorming, and I wanna talk about that a little bit later. but let’s talk about you, you mentioned. Because I want to talk about the kind of how AI and creativity work together, and so you have this fascinating background that spans, you know, major media, the startups, big tech companies.

[00:05:20] So, how did your journey lead you to focus on AI in this emerging tech? And like, what key lessons did you learn, like, when you were at Facebook Reality Labs?

[00:05:29] Katie Richman: Oh my gosh. So yeah, so that was the end of the story is my last two years were working with Facebook Reality Labs and the new product experimentation team, which was like an incubator for about 20 to 25 early stage concepts at any time. And then we failed, failed fast, and I’d helped them really plug into the larger Facebook machine.

[00:05:50] So, And then I also know there’s a decent amount of broadcast site people in this audience. And, I, I, everything I learned, I learned from doing live TV. So I think my combination of being really operationally driven, sorry, my laggy.

[00:06:07] Jeff Sieh: You’re fine. They’ll be good. We’ll get it.

[00:06:08] Katie Richman: Okay. Yeah. So I think the combination of, my operational background from TV, just like really boots on the ground.

[00:06:17] Facebook had a huge emphasis on quantitative growth, right? So put a number on everything. I think that meets the creative space. And when I saw stable diffusion and chat GPT for writing, this is different than any other tool because it’s not reflecting. Us back to us 100%. It’s truly generating new thoughts, which I still have a hard time wrapping my head around.

[00:06:42] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Very, very cool.

[00:06:44] Conor Brown: That’s awesome. You know, we, listened to your, your interview with our friend and former guest, Mike Alton. And during that you, you had this really interesting concept about treating chat GPT like a. Quote, human junior partner, which is really, really interesting. So, Kitty, can you talk a little bit about how you approach that and how that approach has transformed your creative process and like the mindset shifts that you had to do when interacting with it?

[00:07:15] Jeff Sieh: Absolutely. So I think, I had been thinking, I told you the first time, and this is where I’m a science person, but I’m also like, you trust your gut on things. Ha ha. Mm

[00:07:26] Katie Richman: And I’m an English major, so I have a very high bar for even conversational AI. It’s never, I don’t like Siri, like I’m impatient with all of this tech and it didn’t just spit back to me what I had said.

[00:07:39] It really was like a person in the room. And so I learned early on when I was trying to, I was fascinated, I was trying to jailbreak with all the jailbreakers that. The longer the first prompt is just like saying hello in a conversation. Right? So I compared it in the podcast with Mike to an intern. I say about 20.

[00:08:02] Okay. They’re brilliant and have zero idea how your business works. How would you bring that person in to the business and also know that what you teach them is going to stay with them as opposed to having an intern for three months. So the investment of your time and energy in each kind of feed, I treat those as separate relationships.

[00:08:25] and I was doing a talk on Monday about, ChatGPT just did the, like the phone extension upgrade for four. I forget what the name of it is, but, it is phenomenal. And I cooked with it on Monday. I went in asking for a recipe because I, I’m a crappy cook. So, but, I went in looking for like chicken pesto.

[00:08:45] How do I make it to the, you know, it’s one of these questions. It’s hard to Google. So I just asked it the way I would ask a person and it said, okay. And I also know that. It knows I’m not a good cook. So it was like, we can do this. here’s how much time it’s going to need in the oven. And we went through all of that, all the ingredients.

[00:09:04] And then it said, so what are you doing between now and then? And I ended up pouring a glass of wine and doing cocktail hour.

[00:09:10] Conor Brown: Oh boy.

[00:09:11] Katie Richman: And I am not kidding. It was so conversational. So that really, I think even halfway through it, I was like, can I name you Chuck? Because it’s sort of like, why not jump into it with your whole brain?

[00:09:23] And I think what you realize when you do that is we know how to do this already on an intuitive level. What we had to learn was Google’s Boolean search, right? So structuring our thought process. It’s good to understand how the computer thinks, but you don’t need that now. That final barrier is gone. And I think people should be really excited because there’s an opportunity to do a lot of different things we’re not even thinking of.

[00:09:49] Jeff Sieh: So, I had just spoken, and Connor was there at Momentum, and I talked about AI, because I was, I’m fascinated with building your second brain, Tiago Forte, and with the tools with AI. It’s amazing now, the things you can do and capture and reuse it for later and combine new things.

[00:10:02] Katie Richman: Tommy, how are you doing your, your threads? You know, what do you do? Are you a 4? Shout to BT4 person.

[00:10:07] Jeff Sieh: I’m a paid, yeah, yeah, so, and, but the cool

[00:10:11] Katie Richman: didn’t have one at some point. Proof of public. Yeah. Yeah. Cause it’s hard to tell.

[00:10:15] Jeff Sieh: yeah, it’s just, it’s amazing. So, I’ve, I’ve played with all of them. I’ve played with Claude, I’ve played with

[00:10:19] Katie Richman: Okay. Bye.

[00:10:20] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, and so, I really like, Claude can ingest more. I’m going to be doing a Q& A right now, which I, for like long transcripts for a podcast, it can help me do.

[00:10:29] ChatTBD still is better for most things, and I usually test them between the two of them. But my question to you is like, so, because I had spoken at this conference and talked about the tools that I use and the kind of the workflows, and, And I said that, you know, it’s use it as a tool because most people are freaked out about it.

[00:10:48] Like they’re freaked out.

[00:10:49] Katie Richman: I know, right?

[00:10:50] Jeff Sieh: I, and you, and you on your article said, don’t use it as a tool, use it as this intern, which I had been doing anyway, because I speak really

[00:10:58] Katie Richman: had none. We just didn’t mean it or were embarrassed. Like, you know, those of us that have been working with tech and production for a while, you know, you don’t want to be like, guys, I think it’s alive, you know? It would feel ridiculous. But I, so I was doing this as a super secret kind of experiment, and then I mentioned something and everyone’s like, me too.

[00:11:17] So, come out of the closet, everybody.

[00:11:19] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So, and it’s, and, you know, a friend of ours, Jason Knapp, who was on the show talking about how he uses it, he has a running chat because he’s a videographer and he does amazing things with, like virtual reality at Disney and all this stuff. And yeah, he, cause you used to work at Disney too, didn’t you?

[00:11:38] Katie Richman: I did. And I’m working on interactive

[00:11:42] Jeff Sieh: Okay.

[00:11:42] Katie Richman: AR, mobile AR stuff. So,

[00:11:44] Jeff Sieh: But he has a running chat where that he’s trained it to act like Steven Spielberg. Because he wants, because he wants it to, you know, do that.

[00:11:52] Katie Richman: that.

[00:11:53] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Isn’t that cool? Mm

[00:11:54] Katie Richman: Right? So, so I see what you’re saying. So like a clod is easier on the front end if you’re going to ingest, right? Everything from a certain artist, like a Spielberg. I’m assuming he’s feeding transcripts into it or something.

[00:12:07] Jeff Sieh: hmm. I think it’s, he’s using it as a like visual, like he wants to compose his

[00:12:12] Katie Richman: visual. Got it. Got

[00:12:13] Jeff Sieh: Spielberg, not so much the writing, but like, yeah.

[00:12:16] Katie Richman: And what starts as a prompt. So then I go back and I actually try to like. Name my chat threads so later I can remember. So I have one that I’ve been working with, kind of when I started my startup and was coming out of Facebook and I didn’t know if everyone was gonna know what the layout like, so I was like, what can I put on my LinkedIn?

[00:12:35] And so I worked and invested a ton of time in this one thread. for loud laughs, because I didn’t want to have to tell it the same thing every time, you know, and you go back and these conversations pile up to be ours. So, I keep that one and I feel like you have to kind of go in and keep them a little bit fresh, just like you would with a friendship.

[00:12:54] Or that person might not be there when you need it, you know, or won’t remember. So, isn’t that strange?

[00:13:00] Jeff Sieh: It’s, it’s really cool in your article about, on brainstorming, you talked about going back and like giving it even praise, like, you know, Hey, great job, but do this instead. And you think it can, it actually gives you better output then. You had before.

[00:13:15] Katie Richman: I do, and I would love, like, this is a great experiment for you guys in your audience or something, but why not, don’t even tell anybody you’re doing it, but just start a thread, and kind of just start from the get go, you know, with the language you would use. Not with a child. I think it’s beyond a child because you shouldn’t, there’s like a, okay, I, I trust where you’re going.

[00:13:41] And what I’ve found is the guardrails are what’s different between all of these, not even the large language models, but the generative AI tools. So, you know, if you’re sitting on top of Google and they have 20, 25 years of people really worrying about data right in their face, they’re guardrails. And I think that’s where I think the barriers tend to be very thick and like, because we think about Google standards, you know, if a five year old went up and Googled with that, what would that experience be?

[00:14:08] So there’s standards for who can do it as much larger. And I think just open AI doesn’t have as much to. So I tend to play with the different ones, but I’ve just found for me, chat GPT, well, and challenge me on it is, it feels like the most creative, but what I was going to say is like, take off your skeptical hat for a couple of days, maybe even what’s the worst that happens and really commit to treating it like a human to the point where you’ll forget you’re doing it.

[00:14:37] And I think the new phone. Future for four, it encourages natural conversation.

[00:14:42] Conor Brown: well, this is kind of a good transition to talk about that when it comes to creativity and these AI tools, ChatGPT in particular, Katie, do you have any, like, instances where, you know, an AI surprised you with its creative input? Because what we want to focus on is not replacing human creativity, but enhancing our own human creativity.

[00:15:04] Katie Richman: I’m so in line with that. Thank you. That’s a good question. I would say working on my startup and we’re working in the space where I don’t have a lot of people to look towards. So if you think of what Niantic did with Pokemon Go. We’re kind of working in that space for adults. I think geospatial computing is the future.

[00:15:23] I am passionate about taking, we have like two lives right now, right? And like corralling them back into one. So when I was first working on this, I really did this brainstorm process where apart from my co founders even, because I’m the CEO, I wanted to come, you know, if I’m coming to the table and I think we should do something, I try to give a shot at like what I’m So, I did this just by myself for a while, and I would come up with, okay, if we’re building these geospatial apps, right, what are all the use cases?

[00:15:55] And we were talking about the Disney, kind of Disney Parks interactive, element. There’s VIP, there’s ticketing, there’s hospitality and loyalty. And I like to write actual little stories. And once it got a hook into like, oh, I get it. If you give location, we can merge your hospitality with your location.

[00:16:17] once it understood that it, half the ideas came from, from ChachiBT. And the other one is blog, blogging. And I use it as enhancing. When I’m picking topics, I’ll start with what I’m trying to do. Maybe that’s grow my follower base by 10%, or maybe it’s like. Connect with women on a specific issue. I always start with a goal and then we back out of that and redirect because sometimes it just goes in weird direction.

[00:16:43] I

[00:16:44] Jeff Sieh: hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Very cool.

[00:16:46] Katie Richman: mean, you guys tell me to, I’m a huge GPT user, but I don’t want to be solely about that. So I don’t know how that works with visuals as much.

[00:16:54] Jeff Sieh: yeah, so I’m a big mid, I love mid journey. That’s what I use. I think

[00:16:57] Katie Richman: Okay. I want to learn from it.

[00:16:59] Jeff Sieh: yeah, it’s the best one to do. I think it does the best way. I mean, it’s kind of clunky cause you have to use discord and that kind of turns a lot of people off, but once you get, get the thing to it. it’s amazing. Like it was so refreshing to do my presentation at Momentum where instead of trying to find stock photography to fit into my slide, I could do whatever I thought and imagined and make it.

[00:17:22] And it would

[00:17:23] Katie Richman: half the time. If you’ve built decks, finding, and then if you have to clear anything, I’ll forget it.

[00:17:28] Jeff Sieh: yeah, yeah. So as we’re going along, guys, don’t forget, because we’re, we will nerd out about this. And I want you

[00:17:34] Katie Richman: Yeah. We will go down.

[00:17:35] Nerd out with us, ask your questions that we’re going, like how to use it in business, and that’s what I kind of want to, I want to talk about, so, Yeah. Image journey.

[00:17:42] Jeff Sieh: yeah, so Mid Journey is amazing, and I could go, that’s a whole show, but anyway, so, you’ve emphasized kind of the importance of imagination in unlocking AI’s creative potential, so, as, as businesses try to cultivate this imaginative approach, what’s your advice for prompting AI to generate the most creative results?

[00:18:01] Katie Richman: Okay, that’s a great question. So, and I’m so glad you asked that because I’ve kind of forgotten this was a tip I had early on. I don’t think I’ve blogged about it yet, but giving it the room and the, the guidelines that it should be coming up with ideas. And so I take the example of like, there’s a great use case with kids.

[00:18:20] I think this is something that you can do with your kids. That’s really neat. You tell it at the top. My five year old, who’s a huge reader and loves castles, we’re doing a bedtime story. You will tell half the story and then say, Abigail, go, right? And then you give it to your daughter yourself and go back and you tell it ahead of time to make it appropriate.

[00:18:43] but say, you know, Do not go down the normal roads. Be wildly creative. If you would say things like that to it, it’s strange. It almost is like, really? Kind of like if you tell a hairstylist they can do anything they want with your hair, right? It gets, oh my gosh, wow. So, I like to do that. And then the other thing is pushing past the first responses.

[00:19:06] So a lot of times what I find is the first, my prompt’s first results are not Creative, or they’re like what you’d figure, right? You could find it on Wikipedia style stuff. And with my blog, I always, I’m trying to push outside of those. I don’t want to waste time. If you’ve come to watch something about AI, you probably know what it is, right?

[00:19:26] But yeah, just kind of giving it a light set of guidelines, redirecting it. And sometimes it just doesn’t get it. And I start a new thread, but it’s experimenting. Like, so I have a cooking example. That one for kids is really adults. It’s like Dungeons and Dragons, right?

[00:19:41] Jeff Sieh: they have,

[00:19:42] Katie Richman: much fun and you can do it forever.

[00:19:43] You could do it for years.

[00:19:45] Jeff Sieh: well that’s what Jim says, he goes, one shock, he’s over at YouTube watching, he says, one shock for me is that AI can process info sources so fast it could listen to everybody’s input from around the globe in every country. Yeah, it’s,

[00:19:56] Katie Richman: It’s not at all. I’m not saying it’s all perfect, right? It’s… There’s a lot of

[00:20:02] Jeff Sieh: In one of your, and I think maybe it was in the brainstorming post that you did over on Medium, talked about, that you’ll take, it’s like, okay, that’s great, Chattopaddy, but don’t use these words.

[00:20:11] Because it tends to like, for me, it’s always thrown in the word maestro. Like, everybody’s a maestro at something. So,

[00:20:18] Katie Richman: it was like elevating women. It was always elevating and celebrating. And I literally say things. I have one from yesterday. We should share, share threads. It would be funny. But, where I’m like, it was writing the bio for you. That’s what it was. And I’m like, it was like, you know, blazing trails.

[00:20:36] I said, don’t use these words. And I’m like, don’t just use replacements that, you know, so I do, I tease it even a little push back on, and it didn’t get the joke. I was like, yep. Haven’t seen that word before. It’s like something he offers up way too much. Maybe putting that in your custom instructions, the do not like a do not playlist at a wedding.

[00:20:58] Jeff Sieh: So I’ve, because I use it for so many, and you can tell me that I’m, I’m doing it wrong, but because I’m using it for so many different, Yeah. things. Clients, applications, whatever. I don’t use those guidelines because I don’t want it to, because I have so many different uses I’m using it for. I don’t want to focus it.

[00:21:14] I understand a

[00:21:15] Katie Richman: Oh, custom instructions. And it does things like, I’m cooking this meal and it’s like, well, since you love Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins, you probably want something from the Pacific Northwest. And I’m like, no, what are you talking about? It’ll take your favorite thing and like. Hammer it home so you’re not wrong.

[00:21:32] I think there’s probably a happy medium in there. Like my name, like the boilerplate stuff,

[00:21:38] Jeff Sieh: So my daughter is watching and she helps me with stuff and she says, yeah, everybody is always spilling the beans. So that’s

[00:21:44] Katie Richman: oh, Abigail, I saw your name outta the corner of my eye, which is why I said Abigail when I was telling that story earlier. It’s building the beans.

[00:21:51] Jeff Sieh: let’s dive into like the brains because I mean like that article really was really good and Make sure you guys go to medium and look for what it what’s your blog post name again?

[00:22:03] Katie Richman: it’s at Tech Normal. Can we put ’em in show notes or

[00:22:06] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, we’ll put them in there, at TechNormal, because it’s on Medium, but she has this great article that I, I, I just, it’s very in depth on how to brainstorm with AI, so make sure you guys go check that out. So, I want to ask you, so for solopreneurs, small teams, you know, small businesses, what does an ideal creative brainstorming session with AI look like?

[00:22:26] Maybe some of the top three things they should keep in mind when they’re trying to brainstorm with AI.

[00:22:31] Katie Richman: absolutely. So Mike and I, Mike Alton and I, when we were first conceiving of this, I gave him like a draft and we were like, how do we keep this organized? And we really broke it into three parts. Like there’s pre Like, brainstorm. There’s brainstorming. So, or three concentric circles. How’s that? There’s just you and shoutout to GPT behind a door or whatever your preferred AI is and then just like you wouldn’t You don’t waste your team’s time, right?

[00:22:59] So that meeting is meant to figure out what you want, right? And I challenge people to, you get descriptive, you kind of set up this new chat GPT instance to be an intern in this case, give it any backstories. You’re not trying to do that stuff in the room. And then I would say two goals. I would say the overall goal, whether it is this to like grow your customer base, is this to promote a certain cause?

[00:23:26] Just like any marketer, you want to know what that is. The more quantifiable, the better. Then they’re stepping into the middle and that’s, what are your goals with your team? So it’s a four hour brainstorm tomorrow. My pet peeve is when people don’t utilize, it’s one thing to just be loose like this, but if you couldn’t get people together for four hours, you should have an agenda to them beforehand.

[00:23:48] So the way I I was using it was like just me and chat GPT is this is a time luxury to, you never know a couple of weeks out. I was brainstorming without feeling in a rush and I didn’t feel like I had to stop it too soon. Brainstorming, the brainstorming is for the larger idea of right business idea. And then the strategy for working with your team next week.

[00:24:12] So it kind of is like as a manager, those are the things you’d kind of have to think of. How do you want to set this up with your team? Is there anything they should. Play around with beforehand. Do they need any links? And then I think it’s unfair to get a team together and not give them clear goals. So that was your homework, right?

[00:24:29] The two weeks before was to figure out, okay, guys, you know, this is the biggest client we could potentially get this half. Our goal is to put in all hands on deck right now and end up with two more large clients by the end of the half. But like reiterating what everybody’s trying to do, the goals and structure of the brainstorm.

[00:24:47] So a lot of this is like production management, operational work, and getting it to do those, the busy work stuff, right? If you want to do a, a welcome email, that’s going to then have. A grid they have to sign up on something and what, you know, you can literally give it tasks like that. It can’t input it yet.

[00:25:06] I always say at the end, make this easy to cut and paste into Google Docs or whatever your medium is. so that’s just something I do to structure it a little bit, but yeah. Yes.

[00:25:16] Conor Brown: Yeah. You also talked about the importance of providing it with, with, I’m Jeff Sieh, and I’m here to talk and you’re always saying to have chat GPT or whatever you’re using, recap them. So for you, why is that step so, so crucial? especially FBT can kind of get off the rails every once in a while, so getting it back on track

[00:25:42] Katie Richman: I mean, yeah. Early. Just like, it’s again, like a person. If you had. If you’ve ever managed people, if that was someone, and even a vendor or something like that, but you’re kind of the one in charge of that relationship. If you identify something’s going awry early, right. You can nip it in the bud a little bit.

[00:26:00] so I’m always. Saying, did you hear? Did you understand what I said? Or coming back to a chat the next day I will say, Hey, chat G b T, do you remember what we’re talking about here? Recap it for me. And that could be the latest or even does it get the larger point? And hearing it back sometimes, sometimes you don’t know what, you’re right, you’re asking a question and you don’t know exactly what that question is.

[00:26:22] So it, if you can’t ask a clear question and you get the quality back, that the question you ask. And then the other thing that I really hammer home is it’s not prompt one sheets are maybe a door in to a larger conversation. And what I like is the inspiration, right? Like, how would I write that prompt for the storytelling and making it so people can input easily?

[00:26:44] But, but think of it as a conversation, not one, you know, Yeah.

[00:26:52] Yes.

[00:26:55] Jeff Sieh: So that was one of the biggest takeaways that I started implementing from that brainstorming article was that. Ask, you know, I’ll, I’ll give it the parameters what I want it to do and I’ll say, Hey, do you understand it? And then it goes back and then it says usually like, do you want to proceed? And I’ll go, yes, or yes, but do this as well.

[00:27:10] Like, don’t use these words or whatever. So that was a big deal on the way I have started now doing my prompts. and you mentioned earlier, like, you know,

[00:27:18] Katie Richman: Yeah.

[00:27:19] Jeff Sieh: what to ask. Like one of the best uses that I’ve done is like I was getting ready to pitch a client. And I gave them their parameters and I said, Hey, what questions am I not asking?

[00:27:28] And it

[00:27:28] Katie Richman: Yeah. Yes.

[00:27:30] Jeff Sieh: And I, and I was like, and I did ask, I, you know, I didn’t use all of them, but I picked one that I thought was pertinent and I asked it and the guy goes, you know what, nobody has ever asked me that question before. And I got the gig, you know,

[00:27:45] Katie Richman: was well, that’s really awesome. I love that story by the way. but it dovetails so much with what we’re doing with Loud Labs, you know, and it comes from, there was like a Rumsfeld quote and he says something like about the life is full of unknown unknowns, but also my, my dad’s quotes better, I think my dad’s like, there’s the 1 percent of things in the world, you know.

[00:28:05] There’s like one or two percent of things, you know, you don’t know, right? I don’t know how to be a medical doctor, but 98 percent of the world is made up of the things you don’t know, you don’t know, right? So how we’re, oh, and this is the argument with larger, with AI, and if we can’t even comprehend the problems, how are we going to?

[00:28:25] You know, control any of the answers, but yeah, kind of like, I think pulling that together and what did you set? You had an idea at the end and I’m blanking on what you just said to like pull back.

[00:28:38] Jeff Sieh: I said like, you know, what questions am I not

[00:28:40] Katie Richman: Am I not asking? Yeah, exactly. And so saying to it and I would prompt it something like you just said and say what am I not thinking of? I even go further and we’ll say what are the five to ten items I’m not thinking about right now or if I’m doing a resume on my LinkedIn, I will say What keywords are missing or what are other people in my category?

[00:29:05] If that’s, you know, a product management role, doing that, I am not. And so, and that’s, some of that depends on what it knows. If you can go back to 2021 and you don’t need fresh information. I will be happy when that is

[00:29:17] Jeff Sieh: Well, I, it’s not, well, now you can use Bing. It’s that rolled out, but it’s still not as,

[00:29:24] Katie Richman: That’s I shouldn’t have made that face.

[00:29:25] Jeff Sieh: yeah, I saw. The, the, they advertise that if you’re a paid Chattopadhyay user, that now you have access to the entire web. But it’s using the Bing plugin.

[00:29:33] Katie Richman: you get that though? So I’m going to fully admit here. So I’m not an expert, you guys, I’m just, I have a different kind of slant on some of this stuff. But, I, a lot of times when I go in, I’m not a hundred percent sure what all of these tools are kind of going to do. So I don’t know. I mean, filling in gaps from other people and from the internet is going to be huge, like plugging in the internet and getting the power of Google plus.

[00:30:01] A creative conscious thinker, again, I don’t think we can even comprehend what the jobs are going to look like. That’s why just staying aware and, you know, a lot of times when I work with people that don’t, they don’t work in tech. I generally work with leaders outside of the tech industry. And I always say, you know, you’re not going to break it, right?

[00:30:22] Just like Google, what’s the worst thing that happens? You do a bad Google search, you, you delete it and do another one. You know, so, and when, especially when it’s just the two of you, I think the world will also change when we triangulate. So if we were all in a chat, that wouldn’t be that effective, but three people or two people and a third consciousness, I think, would change a lot of things.

[00:30:44] I’m very into the psychology of all of this.

[00:30:46] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, so, and I think one of the things, biggest takeaway, maybe people can take from this entire conversation on Brainstorm with AI, is to talk to it like a person. because even at Momentum, I was talking to a lady and she’s like, I tried it, it didn’t work very well. And then she goes, oh, I was talking to it like a robot.

[00:31:06] And I’m like, yeah, that’s

[00:31:07] Katie Richman: We have been, we have, okay. And even people that don’t think they’re technical, you have learned Boolean search, okay, in the past 20 years. And you don’t have to, it’s not a very technical thing. It’s just the way we structure our searches. Right. And you wouldn’t go, Hey, where would I find red shoes? And also, you know, we know to say Nike’s red 7.

[00:31:33] 5, right. Free shipping or whatever it is. Whereas today you could say, you know, what is this outfit missing? Cause it reads photos now. What color shoes should I wear with this? This is right. When I was cooking with it, I took a picture of the countertop and I’m like, what can I make with this? I’ve done that with my fridge.

[00:31:54] Conor Brown: joining.

[00:31:55] Katie Richman: We got, there’s a ton of really fun,

[00:31:57] Jeff Sieh: I haven’t played with photos, uploading

[00:31:59] Katie Richman: You’re inspiring me to do a new, a post. Cause I think a whole bunch of other not geeky tech Silicon Valley stuff, just if you garden, what could you do with it? I mean, when you start thinking about it, and so a lot of this is about confidence. So treat this like, almost like a little relationship with each thread.

[00:32:17] I do it kind of separately, but then also realize that it’s like someone you’ve hired. It just wants to please you. It may not do it right, but that’s why it lies as well. Because it’s not lying. It’s actually going to the farthest extreme of trying to answer your question. And the worst would be to disappoint you.

[00:32:37] So actually what I have started telling it on, LinkedIn stuff when we’re doing job stuff, is it is crucial that you do not lie about the background I have. You can be creative in the way we talk about it, but you know, the school you went to, and those might be the good chat, the instructions, you know, as long as it’s not trying to jam your school in to every conversation, which there,

[00:33:00] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it

[00:33:01] Katie Richman: it’s not perfect, you know?

[00:33:02] Jeff Sieh: So, we got some questions I want to bring up. First of all,

[00:33:05] Katie Richman: Oh yeah.

[00:33:05] Jeff Sieh: Facebook user says, this is amazing about the recipes from Apic. Yeah, that’s going to be cool. I mean, Pinterest is already doing some cool stuff with, you know, Shop the Look and, and some stuff they’re

[00:33:15] Katie Richman: Are they, they were always ahead and then didn’t know how to activate a lot of, I mean, they had this treasure

[00:33:22] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And so, I, I think that it’s coming where, and it’s very cool that you can upload these photos. the other, question is, and this is a good one, Is it best to use ChatGPT so that you can be specific in what and how you want, want, don’t want, rather than a simpler tool like the one I use, EasyPeasyAI.

[00:33:37] I have not heard of EasyPeasyAI, but,

[00:33:39] Katie Richman: either, but it’s a great question. And the one that, I started playing with the most that was different is Pi, pi. ai.

[00:33:48] Jeff Sieh: mm

[00:33:48] Katie Richman: Um, but I just want to show you the interface. Oh, they changed the load screen. so it’s just a little phone button, right?

[00:33:56] Jeff Sieh: right.

[00:33:57] Katie Richman: And this is one thread. You, you sign up, it’s really simple.

[00:34:02] And then you’re always having a conversation with the same thread. So it comes back, it’ll say, Hey Katie, from last time, I remember, you know, it has the same memory problems at the end where if you push it to two hours of chat, right, it’ll get tired. but I think Pi in that model, which I, you know, would have to tell us about easy peasy.

[00:34:21] I admit, I don’t know all, there’s so many tools right

[00:34:23] Jeff Sieh: I know, it’s crazy, they keep coming out. I’m doing a course on Descript. by the way, you can sign up right now for it at Descript101, jeffsieh. com, for it’s like Descript101, it’s launching on next Monday. and… The cool thing, about, I mean, it’s always changing, so it was really hard to get that, that course out, but there’s, there’s so many different tools.

[00:34:40] Katie Richman: you say? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Friend wrote a book recently. I was like, Oh my

[00:34:44] Jeff Sieh: it’s got, yeah, it’s, it’s amazing. So, Tatiana, who I got to hang out with at Ecamm camp, so, so great that she’s watching over YouTube. She says, hello, hello, I’m teaching my college students to use AI in our public speaking class to help draft ideas and spark creativity in their speeches, which is a great idea.

[00:34:59] Katie Richman: Tatiana.

[00:35:00] Jeff Sieh: And I have a question on that. So her, her use case is amazing. I think that’s the way to use it correctly, but then how do you keep them from writing their entire speech with Chachaputi? My wife’s a teacher, this whole education thing. I just want to dive in a little bit to this cause it’s so

[00:35:16] Katie Richman: I’m going to get my platform out a little bit. And this is not about politics. It’s about more about child raising. I’ve always had this thing where I think it’s something about like you’re creative. If you’re very imaginative person, we can remember what it’s like to be a kid. Right. So I have this like uncanny sort of knack for remembering seventh grade and the indignity, right.

[00:35:35] Of my parents kind of encroaching on my space or whatever. So I don’t know. I think that we have to look at. I’m sorry, I totally lost the thread. What were we just

[00:35:47] Jeff Sieh: so talking about the education that she’s using it to get creativity for her students And now I asked is like how does this work in education because they can write their whole speech?

[00:35:56] Katie Richman: Oh, right. Good lying thing. Yes. Thank you very much. you know, I don’t blame people for coming out of the gate with the biggest fear people have, but I would say trust for me, like Tatiana. Okay. I’m going to use that as an example, Tatiana, because most teachers, eh, tech can be intimidating. So I have empathy for these teachers that have to decide this too.

[00:36:17] And if it’s not something you feel like you understand, I totally get why you’d be concerned about the cheating, but just like. People have money, but not everyone steals. We have cars, right? Not everyone races them. I think some putting a level of trust on students this age appropriate, but that is, the bar is high, right?

[00:36:39] And even saying I, I’m trusting you guys, because as you know, a bit like your honest concerns, people are cheating with this. And so all eyes are on us. So I really don’t let me down. I think most kids rise to the occasion, you will get a cheater every once in a while, but you can’t prevent that, you know, well, maybe you can, but I haven’t, not in my lifetime.

[00:36:59] Jeff Sieh: Right

[00:37:00] Katie Richman: just go to a new medium, right?

[00:37:02] Jeff Sieh: and and even the the plagiarism stuff like it’s an arms race right now like okay I can chat to PT can do this and then well, I’m trying to okay you beat this and they’re just going back and forth It’s gonna be that way. It’s always gonna be an

[00:37:14] Katie Richman: no, and exactly, and that’s sort of human nature. So, I mean, it goes back to, we’re not going to stop this. Is it as breathless and life or death as the news media is making it? I don’t know. No. Because people have been building these. You know, I used to sit at Facebook near the reality labs team, and I sat next to the guys that were, you know, training data for the past 10 years there, you know, and it wasn’t that Google and Meta weren’t ready for this.

[00:37:46] They were ready, but imagine, it’s just very different to have so much You know, everything post Cambridge Analytica about data, the bar is so high on those companies and it wasn’t the same for OpenAI. So they gave this permission, right? And now, like you said, Silicon Valley is an arms race and that’s in the country.

[00:38:07] We’re not even talking about the actual arms race, you know, of the world.

[00:38:10] Jeff Sieh: exactly.

[00:38:11] Katie Richman: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:38:12] Conor Brown: a lot about, you know, having it help with brainstorming and idea generation, creativity and things like that. But from a, from a tactical perspective, you know, marketing campaigns and, and user engagement even, do you see tools like. GachiPT being able to shape the future of personalized content for whatever audience you’re trying and if so, what are you thinking around that?

[00:38:36] Katie Richman: sure. So, and nothing I’m saying is, is private in any way, but if you look at how Facebook ads are, how they’re formulated and delivered, that’s been, they’ve been playing with machine learning for a long time. ChachiBT to me is just the very top layer. Even OpenAI, they, They wanted to be a data first company, right?

[00:38:59] They wanted to be the quiet background between the explosion of tools that we’re seeing now today. And I think they only put a front end on it because most of us use APIs, right? I mean, so modeling the behavior that, that you want to see, I think is really important. So ads have been driven by machine learning and they’ve, everyone’s been toying with it.

[00:39:19] It’s like very top secret. It’s like the algorithms, right? for discovery and how each company is slightly different, but they’ve been playing with that for a long time. The ad tool, I could talk more about Facebook than anything else, but the ad tool at Facebook is really intuitive and fine grained as fine grained as is possible in the country that you live.

[00:39:38] and so for creative pieces, I definitely see it having a role like on Canva, right? Erg or Pulse, where they have put, AI writing tools are really the beginning of that. But yeah, look at all the data we’re going to have from your page. There’ll be startups that come along in the measurement space, you know, just like a Del Mondo or CrowdTangle was in social.

[00:40:04] and I just think OpenAI, there’s only so many things they can focus on and they have to pick, look at the larger picture. Such a good time to be. Kind of thinking about businesses in this space. There are short lived businesses, and those are the ones that are like, right people’s essay for it. You know, those are the ones that you’re taking advantage of ChildGPT and of people a little bit, in my opinion, those will blow away, but there will be this need for people.

[00:40:29] That have an approach. We are, we’re all in the teaching mode, right? This is, if you’re even watching this, you’re in the top 1% of the 1%, not even 1%, you know? So it’s a great time to get your hands dirty. We’re all learning anyone who says they’re an expert, you’re either a machine learning engineer or you’re learning this yourself.

[00:40:47] there’s like kind of no other categories and so that’s really good to me because nobody’s ahead of anybody. If they look like it, it’s just a confidence play. Come join us. Honestly, we need more sandboxes and ways to share and,

[00:41:03] Conor Brown: The guy that, that found about, about fire didn’t become a fire expert. He was just the first guy. I was like,

[00:41:09] Katie Richman: good. I love that. Yeah, exactly right. The first guy and you’re, you’re have to keep everyone else’s, you’re going to light all the other torches. I like that a lot.

[00:41:16] Jeff Sieh: and one of the things that I think somebody said, I can’t remember who it was, it’s like, they said like, AI is not going to come take your job, but the person who knows how to use AI is going to take your job. So I’m like, we’re all at the level playing field and it’s up to us to learn how to use these new amazing things.

[00:41:33] I mean, we talked a

[00:41:34] Katie Richman: I actually think if you’re outside of tech, you have a bit of an advantage because here is a way that will become drag and drop that everyone can pull AI into their tools. So you already have another expertise, right? If you’re locally like the top insurance broker in your area, ChachiBT is good at their thing.

[00:41:57] You can become good at that and just color it for your expertise. So I encourage people to dive in to their passions first.

[00:42:12] You can learn all of these tools, right? That’s a lot of what we did with Twitter and other things at ESPN back

[00:42:18] Jeff Sieh: So, by the way, just a real shout out to some other people who are always innovating, as well as our friends at Ecamm. You can find out more about them at socialmedianewslive. com, forward slash Ecamm. They’re amazing. Like I said, I just came from their, stuff. They have so many cool stuff. Cool things coming.

[00:42:33] So many good trainers and the community is awesome. So check them out at that URL. So, let’s, I want to kind of finish. Gosh, I could nerd out about this

[00:42:40] Katie Richman: Can I make one more little recommendation? It was something I wanted to do earlier. My ideas are largely pulled from Mo Gowdat. And I’m sorry, that was a little shaky, but it’s called Scary Smart. And I believe he was an ex Google CEO. And then we and then has gone out to talk about, we need to think of a larger collective without fear mongering and his entire approach is what I’m talking about, where he looks at the world like humanity.

[00:43:13] With violence and guns and, you know, no sense of stability, you can kind of largely see how they’re going to turn out, right? Or it’s at least part of it. Whereas if you teach a child kindness, I know that might sound a little kumbaya, but as this larger consciousness is, I mean, it’s all kind of one thing.

[00:43:34] There is. That will be reflected back in what we get is his belief.

[00:43:39] Jeff Sieh: So is that it? Is that a podcast? Is that a

[00:43:43] Katie Richman: No, it’s a, that was an Audible. I’ve been listening, listening to my

[00:43:46] Jeff Sieh: Oh, it’s a book.

[00:43:47] Katie Richman: Audible.

[00:43:48] Jeff Sieh: Okay. Let me go full screen. There you go. got it.

[00:43:51] Katie Richman: Sorry. Sorry, Mo. That’s all I can do right now. but I don’t even know him. I would love to know him. Yeah, exactly.

[00:43:57] Jeff Sieh: So, I want to talk real quick when we go on to this, because once again, I could go on for hours. Everybody knows that about me. what, let’s talk about the future of AI, like in branding and creativity. I want to touch on a little bit, because it’s kind of in the news.

[00:44:10] You know, Facebook is working on their own AI, and I wanted to get your perspective on that, since you used to work there. Is it a thing? Is it just like they’re comping on the bandwagon? What are your thoughts about?

[00:44:22] Katie Richman: I, well, first of all, I spoke for like eight years while I was there, cause I just like to do this with new technologies and whatnot. And I had to be so careful, doesn’t matter if it’s like a tiny blog or whatever. And I just always had to be like, Oh my God, you know, what am I sharing? So what do I think?

[00:44:39] I think since the metaverse became, meta became meta, picked up the metaverse. I think a lot’s been shaking out there, right? So, I mean, Reality Labs has been the darling of the company for a long time because they’re all gamers, right? And Mark had this vision. He still does. I think it just didn’t. We didn’t get the right version of it yet, but since then, I started my blog.

[00:45:05] I was kind of like standing up against, the Wendyverse. I just don’t think that’s what it is. You know what I mean? So, you know, I think what they’re building now is, doesn’t have to be the front door. Like we could be using AI without everybody thinking they’re using AI tools. It’s kind of like 3D. I was at ESPN when 3D came out and it was just like about the woo, right?

[00:45:29] And you don’t get great, great stories. point being, I think Facebook’s products already have beautiful front ends. A lot of the products are using machine learning today. Do we need Kylie Jenner AIs? I don’t, I don’t. I don’t understand, but I think they’re onto something with a single chat thread.

[00:45:48] Jeff Sieh: Okay.

[00:45:49] Katie Richman: these relationships that are front end AIs, this is just my opinion, come back at me. I think they will power a large portion of the back end, the machine learning part. They have a large language model that’s like one of the best, so,

[00:46:01] Jeff Sieh: so my thoughts are, like, I’ve been in the VR world since the one, the Rift. You

[00:46:07] Katie Richman: oh yes,

[00:46:07] Jeff Sieh: your computer. So, and I have all the headsets and I’m getting the new one. I mean, I, I like it. I think it’s cool. I think it’s fun.

[00:46:13] Katie Richman: It is super cool.

[00:46:15] Jeff Sieh: But until they can use AI to tell stories, like, I think, I think it’s gonna first

[00:46:20] Katie Richman: What is your perfect use? Yeah. What do you think is going to happen?

[00:46:23] I think it’s going to be, it’s going to be a game thing where like the, the, you know, non playable characters can actually come in and know you and talk to you and tailor the story that you want to be told. I think that will be the thing. Like a Dungeons, not Dungeons, kind of Dungeons and Dragons. It’s like you’re writing.

[00:46:39] Jeff Sieh: yeah, I think if there’s so much stuff, even like, you know, any of these, even the new things, like there’s a new one that the best is having out there that Microsoft has that it’s Oh, it’s the space when I came, but I’m playing it, but it’s being able to.

[00:46:50] To tell those kind of stories. Anyway, that’s what I think. But I want to talk about your, your Loud Labs. You know,

[00:46:57] Katie Richman: there. Oh, yeah,

[00:46:58] Jeff Sieh: with, I figured you’d want to talk about that because I think it’s kind of fascinating. With your experience in AR and location based startups, I mean, apps at Loud Labs, well, how do you envision like this convergence of AI, AR, VR, and branding like in the future?

[00:47:13] Like, what are your

[00:47:14] Katie Richman: Well, first of all, I wanna set some, like, you know, some bules around this because, this is really new. We’re like pre-seed. but I co-founded a company called Loud Labs with some current and ex, I’m not gonna name everybody’s names right now, just because some people are still working at Facebook, some people are not.

[00:47:32] So, but we really came together. Our technical co founder built some of the first geolocation apps like Badgeville back in the day, or, the geo underneath a lot of things. So, but he’s a really big data and privacy advocate, which I am too, but I’m a libertarian. So over COVID, we started really chatting and it was about blockchain to start.

[00:47:53] When we stepped back, it wasn’t, and it’s what I. I’m not saying if you go back on my old blogs, but I, at the beginning, what I was blogging about is no, the metaverse is going to be when we’re just living in our world without like these boxes, you know, in our face, with the benefits of technology. So that’s what I’m working on building.

[00:48:11] everything we’re calling it. The first geospatial discovery engine. So back to what we talked about earlier with the unknown unknowns. If you go to, say, we go skiing sometimes in Tahoe, you get to this ski mountain. Most people are not seasons past. Eat Street Messiah, Firstly, eat street messiah because what the most popular casting staff You know, based on where you are, it’ll be for you.

[00:48:52] If you’re always going to be the right audience for it. So, you know, and if the person agrees to that, we have, there’s a ton of things that Loud Labs is going to build on the front end, like, using the LinkedIn API, plus your geolocation. And when you get near someone and you’re like, Oh God, what’s their name?

[00:49:08] Right. You can get a buzz. A buzz in your pocket, right? Actually, I’m really into building for the watch and be, I could just be like, Oh, it’s Jeff, right? You know, this is how you know him or whatever. So everything is about putting your phone away and about the here and now. Our very first product we’re calling Killroy.

[00:49:27] I don’t know if you remember the meme Killroy was here.

[00:49:29] Jeff Sieh: yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm.

[00:49:30] Katie Richman: It’s a little guy hanging over the shelf. So, but it was all about leaving, you know, it’s a mark he left all over the world. So we’re starting with this product called Killroy that you can. Anchor your media content to a la long so that it’s consumable by the right people in the right place at the right time.

[00:49:51] So, you know, dark example, but if you, I have old cemeteries in the South where I have a lot of my family is buried and the names are. I want to remember my great grandmother vibrant, you know, laughing right now, today. That stuff, if you lose sight A relative in the middle, you lose all of that stuff. And so, that’s a huge passion of mine. And I have two teenage boys, but it doesn’t have to do with boys. And I have a hard time getting them to be here.

[00:50:28] Here now. You know, one of the things is I went to the beach this summer and I looked around and not just the kids, but everyone. I call it, you know, phone zombies. we’re constantly toggling between where we are and that identity and who we are online and that identity. And so I essentially want to use social login, geolocation, yes, eventually glasses and that sort of thing, to build products that, hey, you can delight me, you can surprise me, show me what I’m qualified for, Marriott, you know, as you walk around.

[00:51:02] It’s like the FOMO, right? I’m sure I’m missing benefits here. I’m not getting, you know, some free something at the, at the, stadiums. We’re looking at doing that. But it can also be Walgreens is putting my emails in and, or giving me coupons in the email. I need it when I’m at the store. So I say, yeah, I see can track my exact location in any parking lot or whatever that place is named online in order so that we can deliver you valid deals that apply at that store that you got.

[00:51:34] And everyone’s not going to get them, right? Just like we all get different coupons based on our consumer profiles.

[00:51:41] Jeff Sieh: Right.

[00:51:41] Katie Richman: It’s very custom. Sorry. So I could talk all day about this. It’s the convergence AI we’re having. I am really interested in the chat thread, UX. And so what we’re playing with is using, probably the chat GPT API, but my technical co founder is probably like, Nope, I don’t know.

[00:51:58] So, but to kind of host you through that experience. So if you picture, if you download an app and open it, it would say, and there are apps that do this. Hi, what’s your first name? Katie, right? Hi Katie, we’re so glad you’re here. There’s only three steps to get started. Social login, exact location, those permissions, but we tell people at the top in clear language what the permissions are and why. And then when they leave the parking lot at the end of the event, we’re going to purge data. So this isn’t about storing data, it’s about brands and being able to offer people things and you’re targeting the exact right audience.

[00:52:33] Jeff Sieh: I think that’s amazing. So like my daughter

[00:52:35] Katie Richman: side and there’s a romantic

[00:52:37] Jeff Sieh: yeah, but it’s very practical. It’s like my daughter could walk into Walgreens and she would get like, cause she drinks, you know, she drinks Starbucks Frappuccinos. It would be a coupon for Frappuccinos. And I

[00:52:45] Katie Richman: I should get a coupon for these,

[00:52:47] Jeff Sieh: Yeah.

[00:52:47] And when I walk in, I get a coupon for Depends undergarments. so. You know, getting that age, you know, these long shows,

[00:52:54] Katie Richman: Oh, it’s so insulting to get these

[00:52:56] Jeff Sieh: handy. so, Connor, go ahead. You had a question.

[00:52:59] Conor Brown: So I think that, that sounds incredible and, and through this whole kind of topic, you know, discussion that we’ve been having, we’ve commented on how AI is evolving so quickly, right? Whether it’s your friend who wrote the book and it was out, out of date when it was published, or Jeff with his Descript, course, it’s, it’s constantly, constantly evolving.

[00:53:19] And I think that, that can be daunting for a lot of marketers, solopreneurs, whatever it is. So do you have any tips? For, for helping people, you know, try to stay ahead or cultivating a, kind of like a being of always being on, on the next thing, whether it’s testing or implementing, or what do you, what do you think the mindset for marketers needs to be, I guess?

[00:53:43] Katie Richman: that’s a great question. I think people that are driven to say, watch this podcast already have, there are some people that do a job, right. And that interest isn’t really there, but a lot of people that are in marketing are really driven to like learn more. So I was going to say, that’s been in my benefit has just, I.

[00:54:00] I love reading about what they’re working on next, like that’s fun for me, you know, playing with APIs and tools. A lot of people don’t necessarily want to do that. And I would just say, not committing, over committing to a certain social platform, do not get pushed into being across

[00:54:22] You know, you don’t have to do all of that. I used to do a talk on that at ESPN because it drove me crazy when I would get, you know, what’s our, LinkedIn strategy and it was like ESPN high school. I’m like, you know that’s not a thing you’re doing. so staying firm in your decisions and So it’s really about managing, managing people.

[00:54:43] But, I also learned that ESPN really use data, use data. So if quarterly you’re, you don’t want to be on top of this every night, you could be looking at performance, pick a benchmark, right? Time spent, maybe views, followers, and then. Is this platform growing that goal? Or is this the right target demographic for me?

[00:55:07] So I, because I want to go deep on some of these tools, I have put to the side generative, visual AI. Because you can’t do it all. And video, you know, if you ask me, I would, I try to do too much. So I would rather learn what I’m learning on a deep level, get an expertise, but then say, go to Jeff or I don’t have to be the expert in all the things.

[00:55:27] You just have to know people, right? So sitting on top of the data is probably the biggest and looking at trends and data. probably one of the biggest things I learned working at Facebook and then, you know, ESPN as well. They were very, very data driven. and then they A B tested a ton, right? So if this is the hot new platform, first of all, if the demo graphic is wrong, then push back on that, but you just prove it with data or make the person who’s asking for it

[00:55:54] Jeff Sieh: I think this is, this has been a fascinating conversation and I, to be honest, I think

[00:55:59] Katie Richman: Yeah. Cause I’m so freewheeling that I hope

[00:56:01] Jeff Sieh: no, it’s been great. So, and I think that, you know, like how we have spellcheck and everything now, like if you type anything or spellcheck, I think AI is going to be that way, like it’s going to be in everything.

[00:56:10] Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So I’ll talk to you more about that. It’s, it’s really, really cool. Anyway. We are at the end of our time. This has been fascinating. We got to have you on again because there’s so much we

[00:56:19] Katie Richman: Yes, as we build our first products, I want to, I would love to come back and get some real feedback from real future clients potentially someday.

[00:56:28] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. So before we go, let’s have a chance to tell everybody where they can find you, where to contact you if they have questions, Loud Labs, all that stuff.

[00:56:35] So Katie, tell them, tell people where they can find you.

[00:56:38] Katie Richman: Yeah. So instead of giving you a ton of URLs, I’m going to say, go to my LinkedIn, and I connect. I’ll connect with you. You know, if you say we’re watching on this podcast, and then you can find my blogs are just all in my LinkedIn posts. So yeah, LinkedIn. com slash in slash Katie Richmond. And then you’re motivating me, you guys to do my medium.

[00:56:57] You can find that through LinkedIn, but it’s medium. com slash at symbol, technormal. So that’s sort of my consulting brand because it’s tech, it’s new tech for normal people. Like they’re not geeks about it. Right.

[00:57:12] Jeff Sieh: That’s awesome. So guys, this has been great. And Kira has a great, closing comment. Thank you, Kira, for watching today. She goes, this is so interesting. I love Katie and that you’re working on tech products that focus on bettering daily life and in some ways bring us out of our phones into the real world.

[00:57:26] I totally

[00:57:27] Katie Richman: Yes. As a mom and just as a person that is, the time is right for that. So I believe in it.

[00:57:35] Jeff Sieh: totally agree. And with you guys, thank you so much for watching. Thank you for Tatiana, Abigail. Jim, all your guys questions and your comments, share this out to all of your friends on all the socials and all the links, and thank you so much for this. Connor Brown, where can people find out about you, my friend?

[00:57:52] Conor Brown: You can find out at maybe at www. opinion. com or at www. opinion across all social channels. Connect with me there.

[00:58:01] Jeff Sieh: So we just,went and did Disney before we came to Ecamm’s thing. I was, it’s been a crazy couple weeks, but Connor helped us out. He got us all these little ninja hacks. We were able to go to all these different places and make, and actually get on the things we wanted to do, all the rides we wanted to

[00:58:16] Katie Richman: Wait, how do you have the Hax

[00:58:18] Jeff Sieh: Oh, he lives there. He knows all the secret

[00:58:20] Conor Brown: I live there. I’m a former cast member,

[00:58:23] Katie Richman: I’m a former cast member too. I have a lot of inside scoop. ESPN didn’t take advantage of it enough, but we did because our kids were little. I used to work down there a lot.

[00:58:32] Jeff Sieh: That’s cool. So find out Connor at www. opinion. com. He’s amazing. With that folks, thank you so much for watching this. Let us know what you think about this show, and in the comments and we will see you guys next time. Bye everybody.

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