SHOW TRANSCRIPT

This transcript is automatically generated by Descript.  Any errors or omissions are unintentional.

[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: Hello folks. Welcome to Creator News Live. I’m Jeff Sieh and you’re not.

[00:00:03] Conor Brown: And I’m Conor Brown, and this is the show that keeps you up to date on what’s happening in the creator economy and so much more.

[00:00:09] Jeff Sieh: So today, if you’ve ever wondered about why your content isn’t getting found like it used to, maybe you’re curious about how AI is changing the rules for SEO. And discoverability, or maybe you’re ready to learn how to make your content stand out in a world where algorithms seem to have all the power. If that sounds like you, you don’t wanna miss this episode because today we’re joined by Brian Piper, co-author of Epic Content Marketing and host of the AI for You podcast.

[00:00:35] Jeff Sieh: Brian has spent years helping brands understand how data, ai, and strategy come together to create content that actually gets seen. He’s gonna be sharing his best insights, proven tactics, and a few predictions for what’s coming next. So sit back, clear your schedule, clear your mind, and get ready for this week’s episode of Creator News Live.

[00:00:54] Jeff Sieh: Brian, thank you so much for being here, my friend.

[00:00:56] Brian Piper: Really appreciate it. It’s gonna be a fantastic conversation. Looking forward to it.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Jeff Sieh: So, you know, we’ve been doing these little clips for everybody who comes on the show, so we are gonna go ahead and hit Brian Piper’s theme song. There you go. There you go.

[00:01:09] Brian Piper: Wow, all that hair and no beard is gonna be a whole different look for

[00:01:13] Jeff Sieh: that’s right. Yeah, my face looked a little wonky on that one too, but we won’t go there. So, um, thank you Brian once again for being on the show. So excited.

[00:01:19] Conor Brown: We are so excited to have you here, Brian, as well. If you don’t know who Brian is, you should. Brian Piper is an author, award-winning international keynote speaker and consultant. Brian has been optimizing digital content since 1996 and has created online training programs for dozens of companies. He wrote Epic Content Marketing for Higher Education and co-authored the second edition of Epic Content Marketing with Joe Pulizzi.

[00:01:47] Conor Brown: He’s also the host of the AI for You podcast, founder of the University of Rochester Marcom AI Committee, and a member of the AI Council. Again, Brian, welcome [00:02:00] to the show.

[00:02:00] Brian Piper: Thank you so much. It was quite an introduction.

[00:02:03] Jeff Sieh: That’s right. Very impressive. Very impressive. I, the, those books, those are some of my favorite books really. I mean, like, the one you co-authored with Joe is, is a must read for anybody who’s interested in like, boosting their business, content marketing, just plain marketing. It’s just a, it’s a great, great book.

[00:02:17] Jeff Sieh: Something else that’s really great. Is our friends over at Ecamm. You can find out more about them by going to Ecamm dot com slash jeff. Thank you for Ecamm, sponsoring the show. If you haven’t popped into their community, they do a great job training you on how to make shows like this. get your content out there, make presentations, all sorts of things.

[00:02:34] Jeff Sieh: Podcasts, you can name it. You can do it with Ecamm. Go to Ecamm dot com slash Jeff to find out more. But we are here to talk all about, SEO and what we can do about it. The AEO, what in the heck does that mean? But I want to know from the audience, you guys. Where are you discovering most of your information?

[00:02:52] Jeff Sieh: Like when you’re searching for like how to fix a toilet or whatever. Like, are you going to Google? Are you going to ChatGPT pt? Are you going to YouTube? You looking up [00:03:00] fixing toilets on social media? How are you finding your information? Drop it down below in the comments. I wanna know how you guys are searching.

[00:03:07] Jeff Sieh: Now, I know that I have switched mostly to perplexity. That’s what I use now. but I wanna know what you guys are using as we get going from the show. But first of all, Brian. I wanna talk about this shift from traditional SEO to what you call this AI powered discoverability. So what are you talking about there?

[00:03:26] Jeff Sieh: What is that and what do we need to know?

[00:03:29] Brian Piper: Yeah. And I, and I think it’s more than just like AI powered discoverability. It’s just discoverability in general. I mean, people are searching differently. you know, as you said, you’re already, you’re using perplexity instead of Google, you know, and especially if you’re targeting, you know, gen Z or Gen Alpha, they’re on social, they’re searching in communities, they’re using voice conversational ai.

[00:03:50] Brian Piper: I think in a lot of ways traditional search was. Already broken between, you know, sponsored links, featured snippets, it was pretty easy [00:04:00] to game the system. You had to click through all the different links to figure out your answer. So generative search really does a good job of doing that research for you, and it’s constantly getting better.

[00:04:11] Brian Piper: and, and I think the new goal is not to just be, you know, the link that the user clicks on. I think your new goal is to be the source of the AI citations.

[00:04:22] Jeff Sieh: Hmm, that’s a great point.

[00:04:24] Conor Brown: That’s gonna be big, and we already have so many comments about how they’re searching and, and all those things. But we have a, a great one from our friend Rich Watts, who’s wishing us good morning. And he is looking forward to discussion. He’s already learned a new acronym from Jeff’s email, AEO, which segues perfectly into this next question for you, Brian.

[00:04:43] Conor Brown: Which, what does that mean? What does answer engine optimization mean and how does it differ from the traditional search engine optimization? So many marketers have been familiar with,

[00:04:56] Brian Piper: And I think you know lots of different names for [00:05:00] it. In the SEO community, people are calling it AEO, they’re calling it GEO for generative engine optimization or AIO, AI optimization. But it’s really all about conversational search and the switch from keywords to questions and answers and conversations.

[00:05:18] Brian Piper: So I mean, the goal of SEO was to rank high so that people are gonna click on your link. and it was all about what keywords you rank for. And whereas now the goal of AI search is to be the sighted source and hope that that helps, users kind of come to a decision and eventually come to your site to convert.

[00:05:39] Brian Piper: I think the fundamentals of. SEO still matter. I mean, but it’s less about keywords and it’s more about those, you know, the eat criteria, the EEAT, it’s expertise, experience, authorit and trustworthiness. So that’s what these searches are looking for. and I think that’s what we need to start thinking about [00:06:00] when we’re creating our content.

[00:06:01] Jeff Sieh: So I, I wanna just ask a question because of, you mentioned trustworthiness and I mean, we hear that all the time. Marketing speak is like, be authentic. You know, you wanna build that trust with your clients. Like how does the rhythm measure that you’re your trustworthy or not?

[00:06:16] Jeff Sieh: Is it that you have so much content and everything’s linking back to you? I mean, like, how do they measure that trust?

[00:06:21] Brian Piper: Yeah. And I think it’s the, those first three criteria that really help with that. So do you have real world experience in that area, where you’re telling people that they should trust you? Are you an expert in that field? Are you, you know, either certified or, you know, do you have some sort of credentialing that you can use?

[00:06:40] Brian Piper: and then are you authoritative? Are you the source that people go to to learn about that particular topic or area? And I think a lot of that comes from third party people talking about you. And, you know, that’s one of the things that you really need to start thinking about optimizing. You can’t just, you know.

[00:06:58] Brian Piper: Do SEO on your website [00:07:00] anymore and expect people to find you. You’ve gotta get other people talking about you. You’ve gotta get other people sharing your content. you’ve gotta go out and, and create a community of people that can become advocates and influencers for your brand, for your products, for your services.

[00:07:15] Brian Piper: so I think that’s, that’s where you’re starting to build that trust. You’re starting to create those indicators of trust, with your content.

[00:07:22] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. So we’ve got some, we’ve got some great comments coming up. So we ask the question, where do people search? doghouse Dog Media says ChatGPT and YouTube. Zack Brown says, I’ll start with Google, but I’ll off often ask ChatGPT to give step by step directions for certain thing.

[00:07:37] Jeff Sieh: Jim Fues says, I started using Atlas and I like how it lets me use ChatGPT to approve my content. That’s, open AI’s own browser. Now, if you didn’t know that, and then Dustin from, Hey, Magai is still mostly using Google for search if I’m just looking for websites, but if I’m searching how to do something, it’s using Magai and Claude and Web search and then, Chris Stone.

[00:07:55] Jeff Sieh: From Cast Ahead, it says he doesn’t trust AI all the way, so he kind of [00:08:00] Google separately, which I think a lot of people are doing, especially if you’re doing something that you need to be super, super accurate on. But, I have this question for you, Brian. It’s like we’ve seen people move from Google and like so many people in our comments move to ChatGPT and they go to TikTok.

[00:08:13] Jeff Sieh: Even, I know you mentioned, on one of your podcasts, your kids, that’s how they find restaurants and all sorts of things, and even voice assistance because Alexa’s giving you the best answer that it knows and not worrying about the results. So how does that change how creators should think about being found and even creating content?

[00:08:32] Brian Piper: Yeah, and I think that is a, a big mindset shift and what we’ve always said, you know, Joe’s been talking about this for years, but, you know, find one channel where you can create the best content for your primary audience. But now we have to figure out how to take that original audience focused content, and then repurpose, retarget and redeliver that content and optimize it for all the different channels where your [00:09:00] current and new audiences may be searching, and then figure out how to get your customers and third parties to review and talk about that content.

[00:09:10] Brian Piper: I think it’s more critical now than ever to understand the intent of the user’s search. You know, and even talking with my kids, I, I ask ’em where they go to find things and they’re like, well, it depends on what I’m looking for. If it’s a how to I go to Google or a chat GPT, if it’s just a quick answer, I, I may still go to Google.

[00:09:31] Brian Piper: you know, if it’s, recommendations from other people, I’ll go to social media. So, you know, you really have to start thinking about why are people searching on that particular question? Why are they asking that question? And then you have to create content you know, that answers that for each stage of the engagement cycle that you’re trying to get the user into.

[00:09:52] Brian Piper: So when you think about intent, we’re thinking about things like. You know, informational, are they just saying like, what is this right? The, the quick [00:10:00] questions? or is it experiential? So what is it like to do this, to be a, you know, a customer for this or to use this product? Or is it instructional, you know, how do I do this is the DIY kind of questions.

[00:10:13] Brian Piper: and then, you know, when you wanna make sure that your content is set up to be found in and used in AI search results, you know, look for ways that you can make it concise. You can use schema markup. There’s all sorts of different things you can do to provide those, you know, answer first and then put in all the, the fill in content.

[00:10:37] Brian Piper: you know, and there’s gonna be a lot of different. If, if you are looking to target somebody that is, you know, really trying to figure out how to do something, that may be the perfect long form video for YouTube, but you really have to figure out what problem you’re solving for your audience, and then where they’re searching to find those answers and then make sure that your content is there and optimize for that [00:11:00] channel.

[00:11:00] Conor Brown: I think a big thing, you know, that, that we talked about and, and Brian, how you brought up how there’s so many different search formats now, right? People aren’t just going to Google, it’s Google ChatGPT it’s social media, it’s TikTok, it’s YouTube, right? And it’s various reasons they’re going to each one of these.

[00:11:17] Conor Brown: But I think a big thing that has come up is searching for things like the example we used Best restaurant in New York City, right? Or Best Pizza in New York City. We’re going to TikTok a lot. And that is simply somebody talking in a video saying this is what I think it is. And we’re trusting them because maybe the video looks good or we look at their other videos and they have experience and experience goes back to that EEAT framework.

[00:11:44] Conor Brown: I’ve also noticed since the last few Google Algo runs that I run a a a travel website, right. When content is starting to be created where I’m showing my experience, I’m saying, Hey, I went to this place, I did [00:12:00] this. This is what I think about it. That stuff is starting to maybe show higher than just, uh, this is what you should do, you know, because everyone does it.

[00:12:10] Conor Brown: But more so saying, I experienced this, this is my take on it, and here’s why. How do we start to incorporate our experiences overall into all of this content that we make so that we can start ranking higher?

[00:12:26] Brian Piper: Yeah. And I think so much of that is leaning back into storytelling. I mean, that’s one of the things that makes us uniquely human. And, you know, our experiences are what kind of, define who we are and how we react and engage with the world. And I think those are the types of things that we should start sharing.

[00:12:46] Brian Piper: And, you know, we’re gonna connect with other people who are like-minded, who have similar interests and similar goals. And those are the people that are gonna come in and form a, a community of, people who trust our content, who trust what we say, [00:13:00] and who, you know, are interested in our stories and experiences.

[00:13:03] Brian Piper: And I think that’s critical for any creator, any brand. You know, that’s really looking to connect with their audiences is building that trust. And I think right now is, is kind of a window that we have that may be closing, you know, in the future.

[00:13:19] Jeff Sieh: Wow.

[00:13:20] Conor Brown: I love that just because like that makes me excited. ’cause as a creator you get to be creative. You know, SEO for forever was almost formulaic in a lot of ways, especially with those long tail keywords. And you know, so when it kind of comes back and we can create and share our experiences and story tell, that’s awesome.

[00:13:35] Conor Brown: But, but at the end of the day, we still want our content to be shown and we want our content to be shown in these AI driven tools. So Brian, what type of content overall is AI starting to surface or recommend? Like is there a formula? Is there a system? What type of content should we be making?

[00:13:54] Brian Piper: Yeah, so I, I do a lot of work with different organizations when they’re, they’re trying to figure out how [00:14:00] to show up in generative search. And when you start going through the process and you start looking at what is surfacing, a lot of it right now is, you know, authoritative content that’s optimized for discoverability.

[00:14:13] Brian Piper: So it’s out there on a different, variety of different sources and different channels. Different types of content are going to be surfaced in different ways depending on what questions or what prompts are being used within the tools. navigational content, quick answers. Those shorts of things are gonna surface in ai, but they’re probably not gonna provide traffic to your website.

[00:14:35] Brian Piper: You know, there’s zero click searches. People are gonna get the answers that they want. you’re really looking for that high quality content, that audience first content that not only answers the question, but indicates that you are a source where they can come and get more information. They can get more details, you know, when they’re looking to make a decision.

[00:14:54] Brian Piper: You can buy on chat GPT, now you can purchase things right through there. You can purchase through Instagram [00:15:00] or through TikTok. But I think a lot of people still want to go to the website, especially if it’s a larger purchase. They wanna get that validation, they wanna make sure they can trust the supplier.

[00:15:10] Brian Piper: so I think trying to figure out how to show up on those search engines, on those, AI engines is important. But also thinking about how you’re framing the content that you’re showing up there for those navigational searches to try to push the users into, you know, either a deeper conversation where they’re gonna cite you even more or into a, you know, into a traffic conversion.

[00:15:32] Jeff Sieh: Hmm, those are great points. And so my, my thought is when you’re talking about, I remember ’cause I’ve been, I think Brian, we’re close to the same age and, uh, we remember the SEO age where the SEO kind of bros were like promising like, Hey, just pay this, this much money. You’ll be on the top rank of Google and all this stuff.

[00:15:48] Jeff Sieh: And a lot of times some of their hacks and their tricks worked for a long time. Is it taking longer now to establish that authority and actually make a difference in, you know, [00:16:00] we talked about trust earlier. That trust, I, I just don’t see a way anymore that you can like, do these certain things and you automatically are up there or you pay this much money, you’re on there.

[00:16:10] Jeff Sieh: It, it takes time now it takes time to, like you were saying, develop that authority. You go speak at conferences, people take your content, they share it out and all that stuff. Is it, is it harder and taking longer to build that authority than it used to?

[00:16:23] Brian Piper: I think in like traditional SEO it is certainly, it, it certainly is a, a bigger process now than it was, you know, 10, 15 years ago even. but I think in the AI landscape, if you can get your content out in a variety of sources that are respected, sometimes it’s easier to get indexed in AI than it is to get indexed in Google at this point.

[00:16:47] Brian Piper: So, yeah, it’s a little bit of a game there. trying to figure out what you need to do, how to structure your content. If you have the best content out there that is answering a question that audiences have. AI [00:17:00] engines don’t really care how long your website’s been there or what your domain authority is.

[00:17:05] Brian Piper: If you’re providing the right answer and people are looking for that question, they may start surfacing you So.

[00:17:11] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Very cool. Okay, we’ve got some great questions here from Dustin, from Magai, and, and I wanna pull some of those up because, I thought that’s really good. So he goes in regard to intent. Don’t you think that people are using AI search are mostly not looking to visit a website, but are rather just looking for an answer right then and there?

[00:17:29] Brian Piper: Yeah, I think a lot, I mean a lot of the traffic that we got, a lot of the organic traffic that we’ve gotten historically to websites has been either navigational or informational content where people are just looking for a quick answer. So yeah, I think a lot of the traffic people are seeing their organic traffic dropping, their overall site traffic dropping, and they’re panicking.

[00:17:49] Brian Piper: I’m like, well, if most of that content was people just trying to find a page, or they were just trying to find out a quick piece of information, that’s not gonna convert anyway. You really need to look at, you know, other, [00:18:00] data to see if that loss in traffic is really impacting your business. so I don’t worry too much about losing, that traffic.

[00:18:09] Brian Piper: but I think a lot of people are going onto, you know, these AI tools or, or searching in Google and they’re trying to do deeper research. They’re trying to get, you know, problems to their questions, or they’re looking for like step by step instructions for things. So sometimes those things are difficult to deliver in those zero click search results.

[00:18:29] Brian Piper: I mean, Google’s found this from the featured snippets, and at some point people do need to click through to your websites and, you know, we’re tracking websites and we’re seeing more and more traffic coming from these AI engines, and from, you know, generative search results and things like that.

[00:18:45] Brian Piper: So there is, you know, there is a bit of a trade off and hopefully we’re getting more traffic that is like better qualified traffic.

[00:18:52] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, it’s, it’s so interesting. It’s such an interesting time. ’cause this is stuff that is just, it changes so fast. And then Dustin has [00:19:00] another question. He goes in that same vein, Conor, do we actually want our content shown in AI search if the user’s intent is not to visit our site? So this is a great question, Brian.

[00:19:09] Jeff Sieh: I’d love to know your thoughts on that because, you know, sometimes if they’re not coming back to, like, I think about the recipe bloggers, ’cause I did a lot of work with Pinterest people and, you know, they’re, they’re all about traffic. ’cause Pinterest is basically a visual search engine. And so, then they started showing the recipes in the search.

[00:19:26] Jeff Sieh: Like you don’t have to even go to their site. And that got ’em all frustrated and now doing the same thing. So, do we need to switch off our, I mean, switch on a whole new thought process for top of funnel content marketing? If we’re, needing traffic? I mean, what are your thoughts on stuff like that?

[00:19:41] Brian Piper: Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely think that it’s time to, to change the way we’re thinking about that top of funnel traffic and the way we’re thinking about, you know, creating that awareness about our products and services. But instead of just focusing so much on SEO and driving traffic to our website, now we need to think [00:20:00] about getting out into all the channels and making sure that we are everywhere, providing those answers, wherever people are searching and asking those questions.

[00:20:09] Brian Piper: there are a lot of people that, you know, once AI really started scraping your sites and you started seeing the increase in bot traffic to, to sites from these AI engines, people were like, well, let’s block all of our site from ai. I’m like, well, that’s kinda like saying we’re gonna block our sites from Google.

[00:20:26] Brian Piper: ’cause we don’t want them crawling, you know, our sites. We don’t want them getting our information. That’s why you put content out on the website is so people will get your information, so you can share that. and I don’t mind having the, the, the AI tools scrape my website because I want them to show my content in their search results.

[00:20:45] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, I think that’s a great point.

[00:20:47] Conor Brown: You know, when you say stuff, Brian, like, uh, we have to be everywhere where all the searches are taking place and create content for everything. We have a lot of small business owners, we have a lot of solopreneurs that watch the show that when they hear the word [00:21:00] everywhere, they get anxious and they’re like, oh, great.

[00:21:02] Conor Brown: That’s a lot more work everywhere, right. Is a big, big thing to do. So if, if, a small business owner or solopreneur going into 2026, they can only focus on kind of one approach. One thing to focus on when it comes to change, to get shown in AI to, you know, create content more for ai, what would that one thing be, that one change be that’s openers or content creators should focus on in 2026?

[00:21:31] Brian Piper: Yeah, it’s a great question and I think it goes right back to the heart of content marketing and focus on solving problems and answering questions to help your audience. So we need to shift from, you know, thinking about creating articles to thinking about building a knowledge base. So

[00:21:50] Brian Piper: using pillar pages, using schema markups, citing your sources, things like that.

[00:21:55] Brian Piper: Create the best content that you can to answer your audience’s questions and to [00:22:00] help solve their problems. And then it’s super daunting. I mean, we’ve been telling people for years, focus on one channel, start in one place, you know, put all your efforts into this. And I still tell people that I was like, create the best content that you can on one channel, but then you can use AI to help you scale that content.

[00:22:18] Brian Piper: So I’ve got a, a AI automation that I’ve created, so I can drop a long form piece of video into a folder that’s original content, my, you know, original ideas. And it will create 40 or 50 different pieces of content that are optimized for different audiences, optimized for different channels, that all I have to do is review those and then, you know, a, approve those to be posted to those channels.

[00:22:41] Brian Piper: So there’s a lot of ways that you can use AI to help you scale, because we just don’t have the time or resources to make sure that all of our content is all, all of those channels manually.

[00:22:51] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And don’t worry, you’re gonna be repurposed a ton. So you like, that’s, if you’ve seen the stuff of our show, like yeah, we use this show, we beat [00:23:00] the dead horse till it’s good and dead. Yeah. So, uh, like, but I, but that’s the way you have to do it now. Like we go live, this is our kind of our pillar piece of content and then we split it off everywhere and that’s what helps get us traffic back and people click on our link.

[00:23:12] Jeff Sieh: So very, very, uh, very,

[00:23:14] Jeff Sieh: very cool.

[00:23:14] Conor Brown: Another follow up question as well, Brian, you’ve, you’ve mentioned a couple times schema and schema markup, I think for a lot of people here that’s, that’s very technical. It is very technical when it comes to SEO and how to structure your, your website and those sorts of things. Do you have any tips, maybe like where to start with that, where to learn more or, or really what to focus on when it comes to schema and markup and even just what it is in general?

[00:23:40] Brian Piper: Yeah, I mean, basically it’s just a way to tag your content on your site so that search engines understand what type of content it is. So, you know, if you’re doing q and a, if you’ve got FAQs, there’s schema markup for that. So that as the, you know, spiders are crawling your site, they know, oh, this is an FAQ [00:24:00] section.

[00:24:00] Brian Piper: So it knows to index your content that way. schema.org has a ton of information about schema market, but you don’t have to get too deep into it. Most content management systems have some sort of plugin that you can use that will add schema to your site. It’s basically just, you know, a little tag of code that goes in before a chunk of content that says, this is this type of content.

[00:24:23] Brian Piper: index it that way. So it just makes it easier for search engines, for spiders and bots to, to figure out what type of content that is and how they should categorize it. But it’s not as technical as it sounds. it’s actually pretty easy to implement and there are some great tools out there to, to make that process very painless for you.

[00:24:41] Jeff Sieh: so wouldn’t, oh yeah. Just tell me if I’m wrong, but, if you’re a WordPress site, wouldn’t Yost be one that kind of does that for you? Okay.

[00:24:46] Brian Piper: Absolutely. Yost is my, my favorite schema tool,

[00:24:50] Jeff Sieh: Okay. Okay. I just wanna double check. So there is a, there’s a great question or a great point here by Dustin. ’cause he, he kind of was quizzing people. This is what I love our about our chat room. He’s like quizzing the chat, going [00:25:00] pop quiz. Does AI actually do its own search within its search algorithm or is it just doing a Google search behind the scenes?

[00:25:05] Jeff Sieh: And of course, this is the guy who made Magai. He says, this is the biggest misconception in the discussions around AEO. I can tell you, as an engineer of AI products, all these AI models are getting their results from Google search that AI platforms do not have their own search indexes. That is another great point, Brian, like you mentioned before, is why don’t block the robots from your site?

[00:25:26] Jeff Sieh: Because you know you’re gonna be hitting yourself, you’re shooting yourself in both feet if you’re doing it that way. So I thought that was really great by Dustin. So.

[00:25:34] Brian Piper: Absolutely. And, and you’ll notice a correlation, you know, once you start doing queries against these different LLMs and asking them, you know, so I’ve got some prompts that I can use that’ll generate a bunch of different questions about your, you know, that your users might be asking about your content, or about your areas of expertise or your focus.

[00:25:54] Brian Piper: And it’ll go in and run all those queries and then tell you where you’re showing up on those. And a lot of those, [00:26:00] you’ll find that if you own the featured snippet, like the people also ask Result in Google, you will also own that, query in these large language models. So that’s something that you can start focusing on because it’s just conversational search, and that’s what they’re looking for now.

[00:26:16] Brian Piper: One of the problems with LLMs is it’s hard to predict exactly how people are going to search. ’cause the questions, you know, range all over the place. and then these, you know, these engines are intentionally built to, to randomize the results. So you’re never gonna get the same result twice, but it tends to, you know, refer back and cite the same sources if you do the same queries several different times.

[00:26:39] Jeff Sieh: Interest. Is there a big, let’s say you run the same query on perplexity versus ChatGPT versus some of the other AI tools. Are they similar or have you been finding a, a bunch of differences between the different tools? Mm-hmm.

[00:26:52] Brian Piper: Yeah. Typically, if you show up in the results, if you’re cited in the results for one tool, you’re gonna be cited in the results on other tools. So [00:27:00] there’s some variation on, on how they organize things or where they pull their citations from. but yeah, typically they’re, they’re pretty similar.

[00:27:08] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. Got it. That’s really interesting. we’ve got our, our friends showing up, Lou Mongello, who we were just at his conference says, this is very helpful. Before I met Jeff, I couldn’t even spell ai. Well, that’s not saying much there, Lou, but anyway, I wanna know what you guys, what are you guys using currently?

[00:27:22] Jeff Sieh: Are you guys using AI or are you using like analytics just to decide what you’re gonna post? Like are you actually going in and looking at what your audience is clicking on in Google Analytics? Are you just asking AI like, Hey, what’s the best way to do this? Like, should I, you know, are you using AI for your getting your stuff?

[00:27:39] Jeff Sieh: Are you like going by gut instinct? I wanna know how you’re deciding on what content to put out there. So drop us, drop it down wherever you’re watching from. ’cause I think that’s gonna be interesting as we move on to talking about data and AI together. Because I know Brian, a lot of your speaking that I’ve watched you, do is on this subject like using data and AI together and I’ve been [00:28:00] telling people like that is one of the coolest things.

[00:28:01] Jeff Sieh: Yes, it’s fun to write your content and make images. I love doing that. But when you can start comparing and, and pulling in data and, and using it, ways that we’ve never been able to do before, we’ve just never been able on as a personal computing kind of level to do this. It’s really exciting. So you talk a lot about data to understand what’s actually working.

[00:28:20] Jeff Sieh: So what kind of data should creators be tracking in 2025 and beyond?

[00:28:26] Brian Piper: Uh, that’s a great question. So, you know, one of the things I tell people all the time, is. You know, if you’re not looking at your, at your data and you’re not connecting your content to your strategic goals, then you are, it’s just random acts of content at that point there. You know, there you’re just throwing your content out there and you’re wasting your time.

[00:28:45] Brian Piper: if you really wanna focus on improving your content performance and optimizing your content to get the most out of it. I’ve been telling people for years, you have to look at your data, but I don’t tell people that anymore. Now I tell people that you have to let AI look at your [00:29:00] data. ’cause it does a much better job of looking at large sets of information and figuring out what really matters and what doesn’t.

[00:29:08] Brian Piper: as far as what you should be looking at. That depends, right? It depends on your goals. But I tell people, especially now, I’ve, I focus less on things like page views and organic traffic and pay more attention to things like conversions and engagement and revenue. look at what, questions people are asking, what queries they’re putting in to find your content.

[00:29:32] Brian Piper: Look at what, what featured snippets you own, what people also ask questions you own or should be going after. you know, look at the channels, see what channels are working for you and which ones aren’t. How can you better optimize for those? So, lots of different ways you can look at your data to figure out, you know, what’s gonna be most important, what’s gonna be most relevant to make sure that your business is moving towards reaching your strategic goals.

[00:29:58] Jeff Sieh: You know, a couple, uh, follow ups [00:30:00] on that is, uh, I was today years old when I figured this out way, I think it was like, like last month. But on Ecamm, the tool we’re using to broadcast the show, which is great, Ecamm dot com slash Jeff, you can go and actually download the chat. It’s built into what you, what you get at the end of the show, which I didn’t even think about, but now I can run from every show.

[00:30:20] Jeff Sieh: Download what people are asking questions in the comments and have ChatGPT analyze that and I’m like, oh my gosh, this is a gold mine of stuff I never knew that I could do before. And that’s the other thing I ask and a lot of people, I don’t think do this, but you can, like for Facebook ads, like I downloaded the the CSV for the Facebook ads and I’m like, Hey, what did I not ask that I should have?

[00:30:41] Jeff Sieh: And it gave me this great answer and analyzed stuff that I was like, it just blew my mind. So using AI in that way, I think kind of democratizes it for all of us. Like we can all be data scientists to a certain degree now with the tools that we have.

[00:30:54] Brian Piper: The same way that it’s democratized coding, it is democratized, data analysis for sure.

[00:30:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:31:00] Very, cool.

[00:31:00] Conor Brown: I think a big thing too is that when we were, you know, back in the day finding what type of content to create, we would go to Google Search Console, right? We would see on GA and Google Analytics what people were already clicking on and kind of make something. That corresponded to that. And then Google Search Consult, we could see what relevant queries people were searching for and maybe add more content from that.

[00:31:23] Conor Brown: Or we go to a super expensive tool like an a Ahrefs, right? And spend all this money and try to figure out what our competitors are doing and, and things like that. What I’ve been really leveraging AI for lately is doing content gap analysis, right? What content am I creating and what am I not creating, but that the audience is asking for?

[00:31:44] Conor Brown: So I’ll tell it too. Go to message boards, to go to, you know, comments on social media, see what questions the audience is asking, but what content, not only me, but my competitors aren’t answering and haven’t [00:32:00] come up with, with ideas for that. So, Brian, that’s just one suggestion, but what are some other ways AI tools can kind of help identify gaps in the content that we create and opportunities that we might miss just on a human surface level?

[00:32:15] Brian Piper: Yeah, I mean, AI is amazing at gap analysis, right? As humans, we’re good at seeing what’s in front of us, but we’re not very good at seeing what’s not there. so, you know, thinking about how you can use AI for, you know, exactly what you were talking about, competitive analysis, looking at other channels, looking at questions.

[00:32:33] Brian Piper: Jeff, you, you mentioned questions that people are asking that you know, no one is answering. Those are. Great. That’s treasure troves of data for informing what content you should create. I love using, virtual customer feedback. So you create virtual customers, then you ask them what other questions, what might you have, you know, all sorts of ways you can generate those questions and answers to include in your content.

[00:32:58] Brian Piper: you know, build content [00:33:00] calendars, search console. I love Google Search Console. You can get so much great data out of there and then, you know, but in the past I would get, you know, thousands of search console you. Entries with all the queries and things like that. And then just kind of, sort it by traffic and impressions and stuff and kind of take the top 10 or 15 and figure out which ones were most relevant.

[00:33:22] Brian Piper: Now just export all of that data, throw that right into chat, GPT and say, I want you to look at all the content that we’re creating, that we’re ranking for. and I want you to look at our strategic priorities. I want you to look at our audiences. I want you to figure out where we have dominance, where we’re ranking for multiple different keywords that are topically, oriented.

[00:33:43] Brian Piper: And then I want you to come up with ideas for content either that, needs to be optimized, that we can improve the performance on, or maybe pillar pages that we need to create to kind of aggregate some of this content to show that we have authority over this content or over these topic areas, or.

[00:33:59] Brian Piper: Most [00:34:00] essentially where the gaps are. What are we not talking about? What questions are we not answering? So yeah, it, it’s a, it’s a amazing, it’s a superpower for doing gap analysis.

[00:34:10] Jeff Sieh: So I wanna go back and call a little bit of audible on something you just said that I haven’t really thought about before, but creating virtual customers. I think I know what you’re talking about, but that’s, I, I have not done that and that sounds really, really cool. So can you explain that a little bit?

[00:34:26] Brian Piper: Yeah. So, virtual personas, have been a game changer for me. and when I work with clients, that’s, you know, typically one of the first things that I, that I work with ’em on. So, you know, you start off by gathering as much data and information you can about your primary customers, your, you know, who’s converting, who’s purchasing.

[00:34:43] Brian Piper: You can use data from, you know, your, your CRM, you can use all sorts of, you know, any customer experience, customer service, calls that you get, any of those questions that can inform who your customers are. You can use AI deep research to build several different resource [00:35:00] documents. I love doing that in like three or four different large language models and then combining those all together.

[00:35:06] Brian Piper: And then you can put those into custom GPTs or gems or, you know, whatever format you wanna put them in and validate them. So test them to make sure that it looks like they’re returning proper results. A lot of times, you know, I’ll engage members of that particular audience to test the tool. Then you can use ’em to test your content.

[00:35:27] Brian Piper: So you can ask ’em questions about your content, have ’em look at your webpages, figure out what the biggest takeaways are. What’s missing is the language, the reading level, right? what different headline you might have clicked on, what different, you know, objections you might have on that. and you can even run virtual focus groups.

[00:35:46] Brian Piper: So you can start a thread, and then if you use a at sign, you can call any of your custom GPTs. So in one thread you could have multiple different personas giving their feedback on content, and you can have them [00:36:00] talking to each other and, and, you know, referring to what the other persona was saying about what they liked and didn’t like.

[00:36:07] Brian Piper: So it’s been a, a, a huge unlock for me.

[00:36:09] Jeff Sieh: That is a huge, a very cool idea. You need to do a course of that, Brian. ’cause that is, that is really cool. I, I just had never thought, I mean, we, we talk about avatars and all that kind of stuff and marketing and podcasting and all that stuff over and over and over, but I had never thought to put it together with, AI and have a, a customer that you can ask all the time, 24 7.

[00:36:31] Jeff Sieh: That’s genius. That is

[00:36:32] Brian Piper: Yeah, I mean, we spend so much time and, and energy running focus groups and trying to get our, you know, user feedback and you can just generate these virtual audiences, these synthetic audiences, and we’re seeing a lot more of this in, you know, larger companies as well. And, and there are agencies out there that are doing nothing except creating these synthetic audiences to do, you know, that that sort of user testing.

[00:36:55] Jeff Sieh: Wow. That’s awesome. Very

[00:36:57] Conor Brown: That’s so cool. I, I think it’s just [00:37:00] unbelievable. I used to hate making personas in marketing. I’m like, this is the dumbest thing ever. You know, it’s like Suzy q unknown shopper, right? Like, she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. I’m like, this is so, so, so annoying. But I think when you do it like that and you can constantly reference it, and more importantly, you can constantly update it, right?

[00:37:15] Conor Brown: You can say, Hey, I have this virtual persona, I have new data. Can we update it? And yeah, they can, they can handle that. But Brian, we’ve talked so much about, you know, how AI can help us improve our content, find new content, create virtual personas that we can bounce ideas off of and, and understand better to create additional content.

[00:37:36] Conor Brown: Where does human creativity, where does storytelling, where does that play into in creating content today, especially knowing these algorithms and data, it’s driving so much discovery. So how do we still keep that human creative touch?

[00:37:53] Brian Piper: Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, we are still creating content for humans, at least at this point, [00:38:00] right? so storytelling and creativity are where it all starts, and that’s what sets our content apart. I mean, AI can help with brainstorming and ideating and organizing and scaling, automating all those different parts and pieces.

[00:38:14] Brian Piper: But it all has to start with a human directing it with your human expertise and your stories and your experiences. And then it has to end with human in the loop, right? A human oversight, to, to be able to look at the content and validate it and approve it, and do one thing that AI may never be able to do, which is take responsibility for that content before you put it out in the world.

[00:38:40] Brian Piper: AI is great at, at synthesis, right, at telling us what everyone else has already said, but the humans are the ones that are gonna make that different, that are gonna create those new ideas that are gonna change the, the perspective and the way that we see things. so I think humans are still critical, especially at [00:39:00] both ends of the process.

[00:39:01] Brian Piper: And then AI can do a lot of stuff in the middle that we don’t wanna do anyway.

[00:39:04] Jeff Sieh: Right, exactly. so, uh, we talked about storytelling and creativity, and one of the best ways to do that is do video like we’re doing right now with our friends over at Ecamm. You find out more about them at Ecamm dot com slash jeff. They are what got me so excited about live video. And I think with the rise of ai, there’s gonna be more and more need of doing this where we can pull in questions, talk to an expert like Brian.

[00:39:28] Jeff Sieh: I just think it’s gonna be more and more important as people are kind of like guessing on if this is real or not. I shared something with my daughter this weekend and I was like, this is really funny. And she’s like, dad, that’s ai. And I’m like, oh my gosh, I talk about this all the time and I got fooled.

[00:39:41] Jeff Sieh: So, being authentic, having live video like we’re doing now, I think Ecamm is a great tool to do that. Dustin kind of slapped me down a little bit. He says, we’ve been talking about personas, for three years, and I know he can, that’s one of the cool things about Magai and have multiple personas.

[00:39:54] Jeff Sieh: I just never thought Dustin of having like a, a focus group that way. So, that’s on me, not on Dustin, [00:40:00] but, ’cause he does, he does personas inside of Magai, so I wanna make sure to make that clear. but I wanted to ask you guys, do you think. That AI is going to replace traditional search, or will people always turn to Google?

[00:40:12] Jeff Sieh: I wanna know what you think. Do you think Google is on its way out or it’s gonna be around for the foreseeable future? Let me know in the comments wherever you’re watching from, because I think this is a fascinating topic, but I wanna talk the last time, the kind of the time we have together, Brian, is what the future holds, like the future of discoverability.

[00:40:30] Jeff Sieh: podcasts, talk about discoverability, we’re talking about that now for bloggers. Every piece of content now is like, how do we get Found? It’s so noisy out there. with these AI models like ChatGPT, I’ve talked perplexity answering these questions directly. Alexa does the same thing.

[00:40:45] Jeff Sieh: Do you think websites and blogs will still matter in the future?

[00:40:50] Brian Piper: Yes, I do. I think especially for, as you near end of funnel, bottom of funnel, I think they’re going to be needed for validation. People are still [00:41:00] going to want to go to some place to make sure that this is a trusted source, that they have some content, they have some history. but you know, I think we’re definitely going to change.

[00:41:11] Brian Piper: The way that websites are designed. So I think they, they’re still gonna have to, you know, they are going to be feeding all of the, AI models, right? so you’re gonna have to provide a place to be able to train all those LLMS so that they’re going to be able to return information that you’re, putting out there.

[00:41:29] Brian Piper: So, you know, these models still have to be trained with content, so the web is the best place to do that. but I think we’re gonna be switching, uh, Jeremiah o Yang at, at the, AI make on AI conference. a couple weeks ago was talking about this. He was saying that we’re gonna see a transition from, you know, B2B or B2C.

[00:41:49] Brian Piper: We’re gonna start seeing, especially with our websites, they’re gonna switch to these B2A models where the business is talking to an agent that [00:42:00] is then going to be supplying the final answer or the final decision to a human. Or eventually what we’re gonna get to is A2A, so we are gonna be empowering our agents to go out there and create content and put it out there so that other agents are gonna look at that content and make sure that that’s the right solution, for the end user.

[00:42:20] Brian Piper: AI models need content, but I think we’re gonna start looking at, you know, and I know a few people that are already experimenting with this, with creating a website that is just set up to be indexed by these large language models that is all filled with, you know, structured schema, marked up, short answers, bulleted lists, paragraphs, that are designed for the large language models.

[00:42:44] Brian Piper: And then they’re gonna have another website that is really gonna be for those, you know, middle bottom of funnel conversion type of, customers who are gonna come to the website.

[00:42:53] Jeff Sieh: So when you mentioned agents creating content for other agents, it reminds, there’s this old movie with Michael [00:43:00] Keaton, it’s called a Multiplicity, I think is what it’s called. It’s like he’s make a copy of a copy of a copy and the last person of him is really stupid, right? Like, ’cause it’s like the every copy kind of de degrades.

[00:43:10] Jeff Sieh: Do you think that’s gonna happen with ai? Because if AI is creating content and we’re skipping the human part and it, AI is talking to ai, like, doesn’t it just get stupider or does it get smarter? I mean, I’d love to know your thoughts on that.

[00:43:22] Brian Piper: No, it absolutely does get stupider. They, they’ve even shown studies that do this. When you’re training AI with AI content, it, it just kind of dumbs down the model. So that’s where you need that, you know, human in the loop. You need the human, innovation at the beginning of this process. You need the original content.

[00:43:39] Brian Piper: there are companies out there that are just paying people to just write whatever kind of content they wanna write so that they can train the models with this, you know, the quality of the content that you train the models with determines the quality of the outputs. So if these, you know, if 95% of the internet content is going to be [00:44:00] AI generated by the end of next year, then the models that are training on, on the internet are not gonna be as, as good as the models that are just training with human data.

[00:44:12] Jeff Sieh: Wow. Such an Jeff, Jeff, our friend Lou, brings up a good point. He says, AI is proving the importance of trusted longer form content and storytelling. Cough, cough, podcasting. ’cause he does have his own little podcast

[00:44:26] Jeff Sieh: A little. It’s a

[00:44:28] Conor Brown: Yeah.

[00:44:29] Conor Brown: I said little. Um, but it’s such a good point, right? Like you brought it up, Brian, about how all of these queries that we’re sending to ai, it’s coming back in very truncated, you know, bullet points like trying to get the point very, very, very quickly.

[00:44:43] Conor Brown: But then you also have these other search things like a voice search, right? Where we’re kind of having like a conversation maybe back and forth if it’s on ChatGPT or we’re asking follow up questions that can be a bit longer, a bit more long form in the search,[00:45:00] scheme of things. How do we create content?

[00:45:03] Conor Brown: How does that affect our content strategies? Knowing our, you know, visual and voice search is probably only gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger every single year.

[00:45:14] Brian Piper: Yeah, absolutely. So I love, engaging with chat GPT using advanced voice mode. I will spend, I’ll have like hour long conversations with chat GPT in the car and I’ll get a ton done. I’ll have an interview me about things. I’ll have it write up things for me and outline things. I think over the next few years as we are, we’re gonna see digital form factors changing, right?

[00:45:35] Brian Piper: We’re gonna see glasses, right? Those are gonna continue to get better. augmented reality, we’re gonna get earbuds. I, I don’t think we’re too far away from like robotic pet birds that we can talk to. It’s gonna, it’s gonna get crazy. People will always be searching, they will always be figuring out, you know, where they can go to get their questions answered.

[00:45:54] Brian Piper: So we just have to figure out how to get our content there in the best format. [00:46:00] So it’s gonna be different whether you’re creating, you know, e-commerce is gonna look entirely different. You can buy things in chat GPT now, you know, looking at making sure that you are including images, that you’re including video, you have those, you know, precise questions and answers.

[00:46:16] Brian Piper: But you’re setting up the conversational search. you know, that conclusion, first writing style, I think is really important. Where you, you ask a question, you answer it, and then you provide, you know, the, the surrounding data, the surrounding information about it, it’s still gonna come down to creating the best content that answers questions and solves problems.

[00:46:38] Brian Piper: We are just gonna have to make sure that we are adapting the form factor that we’re delivering it in, to be, to fit whatever, you know, the, the search, you know, solution at the time is, and that’s one of the reasons that I’m encouraging people long form video is the easiest to repurpose and redistribute for any other channel.

[00:46:58] Brian Piper: so, you know, that’s where I tend to [00:47:00] lean into

[00:47:01] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, well preach it. You’re preaching the choir here.

[00:47:03] Brian Piper: Yeah, exactly. At least for now, you know, until like, you know, augmented reality, virtual reality comes and it’s a whole different landscape.

[00:47:10] Jeff Sieh: Yeah, that. So just a little bit on that. Yeah, I think ’cause the avatars are getting really close, like, I mean, sometimes you’re like, I don’t know, like, especially with Sora coming out and some of those other ones, that’s why I love this. Like, I can bring up, like these comments that like Lou said, I love multiplicity.

[00:47:26] Jeff Sieh: Like I don’t think AI in the near future is gonna be able to do maybe like, but for now and having inside jokes and that stuff, that’s why I love live video and the stuff we’re able to do here with the community that shows up every Friday. one of the things I did wanna ask before we wrap things up, gosh, it’s, this is flown by.

[00:47:42] Jeff Sieh: It’s been so much fun. you said that organizations need to have an AI integration mindset. So what does that look like in practice for like small teams or solopreneurs?

[00:47:53] Brian Piper: Yeah. And so much of that I think is, is just organizations need to start recognizing the [00:48:00] sense of urgency around ai. You know, AI needs to become a collaborator. It needs to become a team member. but for that to happen, organizations are gonna have to create resources. They’re gonna have to allocate budgets.

[00:48:15] Brian Piper: They’re gonna have to bring in some new headcount or, or shift some positions focusing on AI integration. ’cause teams will need guidance. They will need guardrails. they will need awareness and education. So time needs to be allocated to AI professional development. ’cause you know, the companies that don’t start doing that now are gonna be playing catch up in the future.

[00:48:42] Brian Piper: You know, for solo entrepreneurs, that means doing things like, educating yourself, joining communities of people who are using these tools, experimenting and failing fast. I talked to a, a attendee at a AI conference, and they had an agency where they were the only [00:49:00] human employee, but they had 26 different AI employees working with them.

[00:49:05] Brian Piper: A and that is a mind shift change. You know, we have to start, I tell people when you first start integrating AI, focus on, you know, improving your processes and solving a problem, but you’re working towards a mindset shift towards collaborating with these tools and figuring out better ways to do the work you’re doing, not just faster ways to do exactly what you’re already doing.

[00:49:31] Jeff Sieh: Oh, that is so good. That is so good.

[00:49:34] Conor Brown:

[00:49:34] Conor Brown: You know, at the end of the day, we still want to get discovered, right? We, we want people to find what we’re doing. We wanna put content out there so that people can find us and, you know, buy our services, buy our goods, or, or interact with us and our community, whatever your goal might be.

[00:49:50] Conor Brown: But Brian, looking into the future and, and also the present over the next two to three years, what do you think is gonna be the one new metric that [00:50:00] we’re going to define discoverability success with? What is that gonna be when we create content and we’re getting discovered? What’s that new metric that everyone’s gonna say, this is it.

[00:50:11] Conor Brown: This is how you determine if you’re having success with discoverability.

[00:50:15] Brian Piper: Yeah, I think, you know, I think a lot of the traditional metrics that we, that we’re using already are gonna be super important conversions and revenue. But I think the new metrics that we’re gonna have to start paying attention to are things like channel distribution. Right? Where are you, where is your content?

[00:50:32] Brian Piper: How many places is your content in? I think it’ll either be that or it’ll be, you know, similar to that. I think it’ll be, velocity to discoverability. How long after you put content out there on all those places, does it start showing up as the, as the answer that people are searching for?

[00:50:49] Jeff Sieh: Wow, that’s, I know it, it seems overwhelming if you guys were just joining us and like, oh my gosh. So much more stuff to do. I’ve gotta be everywhere. But the thing is, the tools are making it easier than [00:51:00] ever. Like, oh, look, Chris Stone’s watching this. He always makes fun of this. But, uh, Google Plus, that’s where I met Dustin.

[00:51:05] Jeff Sieh: you know, even back in those days, we were using, we were using, you know, live video and bringing in stuff, but now it’s so much easier. Like we have tools like Ecamm and Opus clips and to script all these things that we can use now to really maximize our content. I wouldn’t be able to do any of the stuff that we do now if it wasn’t for ai.

[00:51:23] Jeff Sieh: Like, there’s just no way, like, I don’t have enough time in the day to, to do all that stuff. So, very, very cool. Brian, this has been amazing, but I want, I, I mean, if you guys ever have a chance to hear Brian speak at a conference, you need to make sure to go to his session. He is an amazing speaker, just a nice guy.

[00:51:38] Jeff Sieh: Get his books. But Brian, where can people find out more about you, what you got going on? Talk about your podcast, everything. That is Brian Piper. the floor is now yours.

[00:51:46] Brian Piper: You can find it all@brianwpiper.com. I put all my speaking engagements up there. I got links to my podcast. I work a lot with, you know, higher ed industry, but you know, I’m, I’m [00:52:00] branching out and, and starting to help a lot of, you know, small, mid-size businesses, B2B, B2C companies, because everybody needs to figure out how to, how to use AI and how to look at your data and how to put out great content.

[00:52:12] Jeff Sieh: Awesome. the amazing Unseeable Conor Brown. Where can people find out more about you and what you got going on?

[00:52:18] Conor Brown: You can discover more about me. See how I did that? We tied that in to the show. That’s what we did. More about me@vacationkingdoms.com and at Vacation Kingdoms across the social medias. So much awesome stuff. I think I’m just more most excited, Jeff, about creating stories, right? Being a storyteller and putting out content like that, that makes me optimistic for the future.

[00:52:39] Jeff Sieh: Yeah. And, and Conor’s a little, uh, go to his TikTok. He’s been crushing it over there with his, uh, what is it? it’s, I always say drunk Disney, but that’s not it. What is the, what is the

[00:52:48] Conor Brown: Theme park. Happy hour over on Instagram

[00:52:50] Jeff Sieh: It’s a great, It’s a great, channel.

[00:52:52] Brian Piper: I like drunk Disney though.

[00:52:53] Jeff Sieh: Um. So, uh, uh, really quickly too, we’ve been talking a lot about it and I would be remiss to mention our [00:53:00] friend, Dustin at Magai.

[00:53:01] Jeff Sieh: There’s a special code there, magi.co/jeff, if you wanna try that. It’s one of the best tools if you’re wanting to get started in ai. Play with the different models, the images on there, everything. And Dustin is super fast with getting the new APIs or new tools as they’re released on the platform. So make sure you guys go check ’em out.

[00:53:20] Jeff Sieh: And also thank you for our friends over at Ecamm for sponsoring the show, Ecamm dot com slash jeff. Use code Jeff 15 to say 15% on your first purchase. And with that, Brian, thank you so much. This was amazing. You are a foun of information and we can’t wait to have, we’ll have you on again ’cause I know this stuff is gonna be changing by next week, but it’s, it’s so much fun to talk about this stuff.

[00:53:40] Jeff Sieh: Thank you guys for watching. Thank you for Dustin, for Bill’s pest control. everybody who left comments, uh, rich Watts, Lou Mongello, all of our friends who show up every week, we appreciate you. We’ll be able to do the show without you. And with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye everybody.