On this week’s Social Media Marketing News Live, Jeff Sieh and Erik Fisher talk with Jessika Phillips and Tony Christensen about what Apple’s iOS14 privacy changes mean for your Facebook Ad Targeting.


[00:00:00] Jeff Sieh: [00:00:00] Welcome to social media news live, where we keep you up to date on what’s happening in the world of social media. We’re going to talk about, we talk about the industry experts. We talk with innovators, creators, and storytellers about the latest social media tools, tips, and tactics, and we broadcast live.

[00:00:16] So you can ask your questions that matter most to you and your business. My name is Jeff C and also I wanted to introduce you to my cohost. Eric Fisher. Eric is the producer and host of the long running, beyond the to-do list podcast for over eight years. Like he’s old school. And he talks with real people who implement PRA practical pro productivity strategies.

[00:00:37] I can never say that in their professional and personal lives, he is also the director of social media education for a grow pulse, where he leads up the social media manager school. And by the way, It’s a perfect segue is to this show is brought to you by a Gora pulse. It is the best social media tool to let you post monitor schedule and report for one place.

[00:00:57] Eric, you also have something really special about that this thing, the social media manager school. So tell us a little bit about that real quick. Yeah, the 

[00:01:07] Erik Fisher: [00:01:07] social media manager school is powered by Agorapulse and that’s a place where you can get more than 70 hours of free social media manager training.

[00:01:17] And you can just go in. It’s never going to go away. We’re adding new stuff all the time and you can get it for free it’s social media manager, 

[00:01:23] Jeff Sieh: [00:01:23] school.com. Awesome. So make sure you guys go check that out. But today, like I said, in the pre show, I’m so excited to have Jessica Phillips and Tony Christianson here from now marketing group, because we’re going to be breaking down apples.

[00:01:37] I O S 14 privacy changes. And what they mean for. Facebook ad targeting. Now, if you don’t know who Jessica and Tony are, Jessica Phillips is an international speaker award winning relationship, marketing strategist, and the passionate founder of now marketing group, a relationship marketing agency. And Tony is the advertising manager at now marketing group.

[00:02:01] He also goes by Tony does ads and he has created and optimizes. He has created and optimizing advertising campaigns for keynote speakers, conferences, and e-commerce businesses around the world with budgets as high as in the millions of dollars a month in advertising spin. So Jessica and Tony, welcome to the show today.

[00:02:22] Jessika Phillips: [00:02:22] Hey, thanks so much for having me on I’m so excited to be here. 

[00:02:25] Jeff Sieh: [00:02:25] So I’m going to just summarize this news and then we’re going to, I want to get you guys to really chime in on this because I think it’s super interesting. Mari Smith, I saw last night did a kind of a overview of it on her channel.

[00:02:36] So I know this affects a lot of people and a lot of people are a little bit nervous, but if you don’t know, in June Apple announced that iOS 14 is going to give the users the options to decline. App ad tracking. And so this is a big deal for app developers. And Apple said in iOS, 14 users will be asked if they want to be tracked by the app.

[00:02:58] It’s going to come as a pop-up query, a query on the user interface. And Apple is saying, they’re doing this because they want to help preserve user privacy. They say it’s going to help with transparency. And it’s going to also explain how the collected data is going to be tracked. And it even broke down, like what it’s going to, what’s going to qualify as tracking.

[00:03:17] They said, it’s going to be third-party data sharing of location, data with brokers, sharing of personally identifiable information, like email addresses with third-party ad networks, for retargeting or lookalike targeting and some other things like that. So it’s basically Facebook’s bread and butter. So then Facebook went okay.

[00:03:39] I’m going to, they took out this big, like newspaper ad attacking these changes, saying it’s going to harm small businesses. They really need it during these COVID times. And cause all this stuff has been happening during the pandemic and it’s, they’re good. People are going to lose 60% of their sales for every dollar they spend.

[00:03:56] And it’s just been this kind of blow by blow. But this has been happening back In the early days with Facebook and Apple, they’d been fighting back and forth. There’s a lot of articles that came out about this. There’s a lot of stuff in the news. But this is really gonna affect marketers and, agency owners.

[00:04:15] And so that’s why I got Jessica and Tony here today. So the first question I have for you guys is, and I want Jessica like you to go first. Do you know if this is rolled out for, everyone or do you have any like idea of the scheduling of this. 

[00:04:29] Jessika Phillips: [00:04:29] Yeah. No. I don’t know that anyone knows the scheduling.

[00:04:34] I know Tony’s participated in some of the even clubhouse rooms where many different ad experts have talked about this and trying to figure out when this is rolling out. But honestly, I feel like, a lot of it already has ruled out in a sense, not that the tracking is going away, but just more people.

[00:04:53] That are blocking their privacy in general. Not only just with this ads and not to go down a rabbit hole, but also even SEO going against now stopping cookie tracking. So there’s a lot of this already in the works and many different facets. So while this specific app update, hasn’t rolled out to everyone, there’s already some other tools that are really moving into the, Hey, you get to control your privacy.

[00:05:22] As the user and it’s freaking many businesses 

[00:05:25] Jeff Sieh: [00:05:25] out. Yeah. Yeah. So Tony, she mentioned you’ve been in some clubhouse room, which is a, that’s a, kind of a cool way to use clubhouse to kind of network with your peers. So what have you heard? As we know, this is like Jessica said, this is a trend for privacy, but have people have this happen yet?

[00:05:41] I haven’t. Cause I checked, I’m all up to date on my phone, but I haven’t had any of these pop-ups happen yet. So what, have you found out. 

[00:05:48] Tony Christensen: [00:05:48] Yeah. So basically, yeah, Facebook and Apple are really butting heads right now. There’s a lot more to the story than Apple’s saying we love privacy and Facebook saying we love small businesses.

[00:06:00] It’s a lot bigger than that. And we can talk about that later, but basically, yeah, it’s it. The Facebook side of it hasn’t rolled out yet. And when I’m saying rolling out, I’m talking about. The main iOS 14 change that people are worried about is called ATT, which stands for app tracking transparency prompts.

[00:06:17] So basically a prompt will pop up and it will say, do you want to allow Facebook to track your activity across other companies, apps and websites? And basically you can say yes, allow or ask app not to track. So Facebook will lose a lot of data tracking capabilities, but Apple basically hasn’t said when Facebook needs to implement that yet some apps, cause it is actually affecting basically every app in the app store that does this kind of thing.

[00:06:43] Some apps already have rolled it out. They’re getting ahead of the curve. But Facebook, obviously isn’t wanting to roll it out until they need to, at the very end Apple just hasn’t told them exactly when they need to do that yet. 

[00:06:55] Jeff Sieh: [00:06:55] So before Eric, you asked the next question I wanted to ask.

[00:06:58] So is this gonna affect like, Pinterest and like Snapchat and all this stuff? Is it going to be, it’s not just facing yeah. 

[00:07:06] Tony Christensen: [00:07:06] It’s yeah. It’s, bigger than Apple versus Facebook. This is Apple versus advertisers for the most part. Yeah. And that, gets into kind of where it’s stemming from.

[00:07:16] Basically right now, Apple’s charging a lot of apps at 30% app tax. So if I’m selling anything through the app store through my app, Apple takes 30% of that chunk advertisers though. There’s this loophole ish that you might want to call it. They’re not paying that app tax. So this is Apple in a way, seeing.

[00:07:38] Google Facebook are making a ton of money on ads. We want a chunk of the pie kind of thing. So it’s getting, it’s a political thing too, is what I’m trying to say. Gotcha. Yeah. 

[00:07:47] Jessika Phillips: [00:07:47] It’s a lot more, there’s three sides to every story. There’s apples, the Facebooks and then the truth. But I’m glad that you said Tony, because that’s exactly what it is because people, when they think Facebook ads, they think on Facebook, but it’s not on Facebook when you’re doing ads, that’s just like the boost, but you can set up and do.

[00:08:06] Your ad to show up anywhere, but really where the magic happens for Facebook ads and why so many people have been moving to Facebook ads, especially with everything that we’ve seen in 2020 is one. Everybody’s doing business online. And I don’t think that’s going to change. Even if we get back to our new normal, I think people are like, man, this is convenient.

[00:08:26] And, we seen that in the first eight weeks of the pandemic where we had more sales online in the first eight weeks. Then we did pass 10 years before it. And that trend has continued. And so where the magic happened with Facebook ads is that they collect so much data because.

[00:08:43] They’re collecting a little bit here and there that you can really get specific on what ads then you are showing up to the audience that actually is going to care about it. It can affect definitely the business. That’s, putting it out there and that’s, what’s going to hurt them. Maybe not being able to show accurately your ad to an audience.

[00:09:03] You’re just going to be blindly putting up. Basically billboard ads places and to the users, the people that care on that. And is that you may be Jeff getting ad targeting for wedding dresses or something that you don’t need. You never know. You never know. 

[00:09:25] Jeff Sieh: [00:09:25] So, 

[00:09:26] the co so everyone can, Georgie you’ve already said something about he thought about me in the bath and this is a whole nother image.

[00:09:34] So the the question I have is, so you have, so if it gives, you this pop-up on your screen. If you click on, no, I don’t want to see ads. Is that last forever until I like re-install the app? Can I get, is it. Can I opt back in or how does, anybody know how that works? 

[00:09:54] Tony Christensen: [00:09:54] That’s a good question.

[00:09:56] I would say I don’t have a clear cut answer on that. If it’s going to be able to pop up again in so many days or whatever it might be, who I don’t really know there are still going to be data points and things that Facebook is going to track though. It’s just gonna be a lot more limited basically going forward.

[00:10:13] So on the advertisers side of things, basically, if I want people to make a purchase what’s going to happen is. You’re still gonna be able to track up to eight events and Facebook’s gonna say put the events in order. So obviously if I’m an e-commerce advertiser purchase will be number one. Then at the second one might be like initiate checkout.

[00:10:32] And what’s going to happen is if someone’s still ops out of this, Facebook is basically going to be able to tell you what the most valuable event that you, wanted to happen. What that last one was that the user did. So if the user let’s say adds an item to the cart, they initiate checkout, but they don’t purchase.

[00:10:49] They’re going to still send one conversion event back to Facebook. So I will see that the user initiated checkout, but I won’t get a one purchase that happened showing up. So, it limits data a lot and it also it’s, it gets really technical, but it also reduces attribution windows. So right now, Attribution windows are up to 28 days.

[00:11:10] So if I show you an ad, you click on it, you don’t buy, but then up to 28 days later, you buy Facebook can still report that window now is going down to seven days. So now if you buy 15 days later, eight days later, I’m not going to know on Facebook. I’m looking at my reporting. So it’s going to change a lot of.

[00:11:29] Optimization for ads. It’s going to change targeting because we’re going to lose a lot of the pixel information, demographic information from people as well. And it’s going to change just yeah. How we, optimize, how we target especially like remarketing and things like that. Those are, going to be smaller windows now that have people that you can retarget.

[00:11:48] Okay. 

[00:11:48] Erik Fisher: [00:11:48] So I have a question along those lines then, because Facebook has said that essentially these changes, aren’t like a, be all end, all like full-stop right now, it’s that this, that personalization, that tracking that this is a move in that direction of longer term, losing that. So how will this affect us as small businesses now, as well as in the longterm?

[00:12:13] Jessika Phillips: [00:12:13] Yeah. And I’d love to answer that if that’s okay. Sorry. Tee off what you talked about Tony, and just affecting us long-term and I’m going to speak from the agency kind of mine. And I love Tony all the technical details with it, but just to mention what does this look like for a small business owner, right?

[00:12:32] Like it’s Tony mentioned like. The tracking is limited. So as a small business owner, many have been thinking, okay, how can I optimize my channel more? Or my website, or what have you. And so they’re looking at tools like, okay, having a timer on your website for 30 minutes before you check out to get this special offer.

[00:12:52] So you’re trying to increase the sale. Faster. And I feel like this is a move in the wrong direction when we think about it in ads. And that’s just my personal preference, because I feel as if now with so many people shopping online and so many people going after this data and trying to find out who their audience is, if we can just think about it differently and try to build relationships better with our.

[00:13:15] Audience and our clients that we have right now, then, and get them onto our home base and, building those relationships and not relying on these tools, we’d be much better off because it’s looking like everything’s going full circle. Like it cracks me up that Facebook took out an ad in the newspaper, first of all, and they’d done television commercials, right?

[00:13:34] Okay. And if your ad platform, yeah, just blows my mind, but it’s, people, we, as consumers are always trying to avoid ads. And so that’s why they’re packaging this as we’re going to help you get your privacy and reduce ads, but that’s never going to be the case. So what happens is marketers are going to come in and try to ruin.

[00:13:53] It all looked to try to gamify this and then it’s going to keep moving again and again So I think as small businesses are just confused on where to show up and how to build and how to get these sales. And so they’re just going to keep chasing their tail. If you will. Like right now, it’s okay, we got it.

[00:14:10] I’ll go all in on digital advertising. We’ve seen that explode and get the traffic back. And then it’s now that this is going away, where do we need to spend our dollar. Instead, just as a small business owner. And what I’ve been talking with our clients about is look at the long end game, because this is going to keep going round and round, and let’s look at building your own thing so you can get user generated content and true advocacy and true loyalty and referrals versus that.

[00:14:37] But I know that’s not answering the question, but that is really what it boils down to because as, Oh, everyone’s mentioned here in that shorter sales cycle. When I did wrote, write down a couple of their stats with that is that the, S the small business owner. Now, I think Tony, it was like digital ads have grown over 25% on average that they’re spending on that, but they’ve also become more expensive for that sale that they’re earning back.

[00:15:07] And that’s with this data there. So now that this is going away, I think it’s going to get a little 

[00:15:11] Jeff Sieh: [00:15:11] bit worse. So Jessica Tony, do you wanna answer that from the ads standpoint or do you think she covered 

[00:15:19] Tony Christensen: [00:15:19] it? Yeah, as far as answering Eric’s question, as far as the, impact when it rolls out.

[00:15:26] It’s going to be, it’s hard to say exactly how big that impact will be. But it’s basically going to be, it’s going to be a staggered thing that happens. So whoever has an iPhone, whenever they update their app, boom, it happens. But it’s, only gonna affect people with iPhones and it’s only going to affect those that update right away.

[00:15:42] There’s some people that don’t update their apps very often. So it will have a tail end trickle down effect. It’ll take time. So it’ll, happen. There’ll be a fairly, I would say 30% or so of the people might do it right away. And then you’ll start to see it happen more and more in the future.

[00:15:59] So it will have an impact. It won’t, I don’t think it will be huge right away, but there will still be those impacts with attribution and things changing in the future. 

[00:16:10] Jeff Sieh: [00:16:10] So, 

[00:16:10] just go and ask this question. So let’s pretend we could go to conferences right now. And you were speaking in front of a group of like just other agency owners or people who have even if it’s, I would consider an agency owner, somebody who even has three or four clients that they’re doing for social or whatever, there are super small agency.

[00:16:27] Number one, how would you like How would this affect social media marketing agencies, that, what would you tell them? And then what would you say for the way to communicate that to your clients? Because clients, to be honest, sometimes don’t even, and they just hit the boost button or they just it’s really, they don’t understand Facebook ads.

[00:16:46] So how are you going to explain it? One how it’s gonna affect it and then how are they going to, like, how would you communicate this? Because they just see the bottom line and see them that they’re, it’s costing more money to do the same results. 

[00:17:00] Jessika Phillips: [00:17:00] Yeah, I would say, just be transparent. First of all, that’s what everyone needs like that you have to say, okay, look, this is not going to be an instant win, no matter what, it doesn’t even matter if you’re not doing ads.

[00:17:13] Like it. All the way around with social and so much congestion there. One it’s not a place necessarily social media that sales are supposed to happen. It’s supposed to happen on your website. So you just need to be first transparent and say, look, we need a full strategy. Stop just running and going in and saying, okay.

[00:17:31] Your business you want to do business with me and then hitting the ground, running with ads. It needs to be this discovery process. And you need to get truly clear on what your goal is, what your end outcome is that you’re trying to get and be strategic about it. Because if not, it’s not going to last for either one of you.

[00:17:53] So you’re going to be doing both of you, a disservice, you as the agency. Them as a client. So be transparent. Take your time upfront to do the discovery, work, test some things first on your channels of seeing what works organically before you put any ad dollars behind it, then you have a better chance of Getting a better result from ads, as well as making sure that you have a a process that you’re not just buying for that one time, one off sale that whatever you’re doing and putting your ad dollars to that, it hopefully can have some kind of residual return that you have in place with building a relationship marketing kind of approach to your clients and their clients.

[00:18:38] So I really, the biggest advice. To say to sum it up is that you need to have a plan. It can’t just be all social. Can’t be all ads and you need to take your time doing it because this isn’t going to go away. This is just the start of it. Facebook I think it was last year or a couple of years ago, or now they, you even already have your privacy settings where you can see who’s tracking you on Facebook and turn that on and off.

[00:19:02] So this isn’t a new thing. And as we start having more and more conversations, especially as there’s a lot of eyeballs right now on tech companies. People are going to be asking these questions and being more and more concerned about their privacy. So you need to show up in a real way and just have this conversation with them.

[00:19:18] Tony Christensen: [00:19:18] So well, 

[00:19:19] Erik Fisher: [00:19:19] so speaking of tech companies we talked about there’s three sides to every story here, Facebook’s apples, and then the truth. So let’s go to Facebook side of things here for a second. What do you think their goal is here? What’s their end game because obviously Apple’s not going to back down there Huge bigger than Facebook, in fact, but and Facebook’s not going to take their apps off the app store.

[00:19:44] So what, ultimately is maybe a resolution here and, what do you think again, Facebook is trying to do here and game-wise.

[00:19:56] Jessika Phillips: [00:19:56] Go ahead. Yeah, go ahead. From the text. 

[00:19:59] Tony Christensen: [00:19:59] Yeah. I think ultimately both companies, they just at the end of the day they care about money. So that’s really what it’s coming down to. Facebook is acting like they care. I don’t think Facebook really cares about small businesses as much as they care about their ad revenue coming in.

[00:20:16] And that’s really what it comes down to is helping out advertisers. That’s their old, that’s their real customer really. We’re, we use the platform, but who’s paying their bills is advertisers for the most part. So Facebook is really there. They’re trying to do their best with what they have.

[00:20:32] They’re working a lot more now on developing in the good thing about Facebook is they have incredible engineers and data scientists. So they are working on statistical models and things going forward. So there’s going to be basically now with reporting in the future. There’s going to be estimations using statistical modeling now.

[00:20:49] So they’re still working on trying to implement a solution. And that’s basically what they’re going to have to try to do is figure out how they can help out their advertisers, the people that are paying them, the money that they need the best. So it’s just going to be working on. What they can do. The privacy thing.

[00:21:05] Yeah. It’s, interesting. Because on the Apple side of things as well, Apple’s not doing the same thing. They’re tracking user data. They’re running ads and they’re getting money from app ads in searches there. So it is a, it’s a two-sided story in a lot of cases. Like I said, with the app tax and stuff and Facebook and Instagram and these other apps, aren’t paying that tax cause they’re doing.

[00:21:28] Advertising same thing with Google. They’re doing the same thing where now they’re, restricting that a little bit more. So they’re going to have to be more reliant on Apple and working with Apple and before what happened was there was the ID FAA, which I have it written down.

[00:21:44] The identifier for advertisers is what Apple rolled out and that’s basically it. And right now it’s not like I can pull up Jessica’s name and see as an advertiser, what her stats are. I don’t know, very like they don’t, tell you who the people are. They, randomize it. They, don’t have a, I can’t look at individuals and look at data.

[00:22:03] They make it really big sets now. So if I have even a remarketing list or list of purchasers, it has to be, I think, over a thousand now at this point to where I can actually see what the demographic data is So they’re just trying to do the best. What they’re trying to do is what I’m trying to say.

[00:22:20] And yeah it’s, going to be a hurdle, but with IDFA Apple worked with these other tech companies, they work with Google, they work with Facebook to develop IDFA the unique identifier, basically, which sends basically it’s, a it’s. Basically I identify that links the Facebook pixel back to Facebook and to other websites.

[00:22:40] So then Facebook can gather data and that’s where they. There. That’s why they’re really valuable with their ads is basically they can use data from that’s linked to everyone’s websites, basically. So then Facebook can say this person’s going to this site and this site, and that’s where their interests are.

[00:22:53] They still have a lot of good data points and they still will continue to capture data points on Facebook. It’s more of now they’re restricting the links to sites that they have now with the pixel install on people’s sites. But what happened with iOS 14 instead of. And what I was going to say is what happened with iOS fourteens instead of the IDFA where they’re like Facebook, what we should do, what should we do, Google?

[00:23:16] What should we do? Here’s what we’re thinking. We’ll take your feedback this time. It was, we’re rolling this out guys. You’re going to have to, you’re going to have to do it no matter what, like good luck kind of thing. So it’s definitely Apple just deal with it yeah. And they had, a big ordeal, as you remember with Fortnite too, where Fortnite was like, this app tax is ridiculous and Facebook and Apple was like we’ll just take you off the store then, and we won’t help your other developers with your other games, with our engines, that in their apps tools that we have.

[00:23:43] So it’s really Apple just being like, deal with it 

[00:23:46] Jeff Sieh: [00:23:46] guys. And Facebook, even with that whole Fortnite thing, went in and said, Hey, we support the D remember they had this ad that said we support the game developers. And they were throwing their support behind that. They have 

[00:23:58] Jessika Phillips: [00:23:58] to because they don’t have enough.

[00:24:00] Not that they have to say that, but to Tony, to your point on Apple just going all in and saying if you guys want to play on my field you gotta play by my rules kind of thing, because Facebook doesn’t have enough space to show the ads on their network. They have to rely on these other sites, these other tools and things in order to really service their advertisers.

[00:24:23] And to, make that work. But what I really think that’s going, gonna happen to your point, Eric is that honestly, there’s been so many big moves made by big tech and everybody’s watching that honestly feel like. There’s going to be more restrictions on them and they’re not going to be able to maybe pool some of these big plays before the end of a couple of years.

[00:24:45] I’m honestly, I would not be surprised if the government does step in and say, okay guys everybody’s gotta play fair and here’s some of the rules, I don’t know, because they are making some big moves that are affecting many people. And really at the end of the day, it is all about money and that’s what they really care 

[00:25:02] Jeff Sieh: [00:25:02] about.

[00:25:04] So I want to bring up this question because I think this we answered it before, but I think it’s a great one from grace and she goes does Apple take a percentage of revenue? From Facebook ad or shop re revenues, or is it both? So I know we talked about it, Tony, what was what, did they take the money from?

[00:25:21] Tony Christensen: [00:25:21] Yeah. So this is where Apple hates Facebook and Apple hates Google is because they’re not paying that, that Apple tax, that 30% tax on sales that happen with ads. So all the revenue that Facebook and Google are generating from ads, they’re just putting right in their pocket. They’re not giving that 30% back.

[00:25:39] Whereas the other developers like the fortnights and all those when people pay. To upgrade their character or whatever, they’re paying that 30% tax. So that’s where the issue is here. There they do share and they do pay some money. For things like event tickets and things that people can buy through the app.

[00:25:54] I think those actually if you’re buying them through your phone, then yeah, I think they pay a 30% tax, but in general, most of the revenue that Facebook and Google are making, they’re not paying that tax on, which is why some of these other game developers and things are upset about it as well.

[00:26:08] But it is. Leveraging other websites and stuff. So that’s that’s the loophole in waste is it’s not, you’re not really necessarily buying through the app store. You’re, buying through websites that are external. Gotcha. Gotcha. Interesting. Phenomena take whatever you wanna call it.

[00:26:26] Erik Fisher: [00:26:26] And just to clarify with, if I were to enable this, when the pop-up comes, like I’m not going to stop seeing ads, right? Like I’m just going to see ads in other words, you made this Jessica, you said earlier, it goes back to Jeff might start seeing ads for wedding dresses, which are completely, or maybe they’re on target.

[00:26:43] I don’t know, but they’re, that’s not traditionally the target that should be 

[00:26:48] Tony Christensen: [00:26:48] Yeah you’re, still going to see, you’re still going to see as ads aren’t going away. They will be less targeted, but like I said, Facebook can still link data points to people on the app. It’s, more of the data points of view.

[00:27:01] It’s like the remarketing. So if I went to a website that now that’s going to be restricted if I blocked it. Whereas if I’m on Facebook and I’m watching videos from liking pages, if I’m commenting, that’s still going to be tracked. They’re still gonna have that those data points to target. To target people.

[00:27:16] So if, yeah, if Jeff is looking at wedding dresses on Facebook, that’s going to work. But if Jeff is looking on wedding dresses on websites that sell wedding dresses, that’s not going to work. 

[00:27:24] Erik Fisher: [00:27:24] So I love comparison. Yeah, I know. 

[00:27:28] Jeff Sieh: [00:27:28] Go ahead. I know 

[00:27:30] Erik Fisher: [00:27:30] that I don’t know if you guys PR partook of this, but I know that a bunch of small businesses took over.

[00:27:38] Facebook’s speak up for small. Hashtag that was on Twitter and they filled it with complaints about how they’re ignored as small businesses compared to the larger Facebook clients, like the big chains. So do you think that this is going to actually help level the playing field and maybe make Facebook put their money where their mouth is when they say things like we support small businesses?

[00:28:02] Or is this just going to be hard for everybody to, advertise on Facebook? 

[00:28:09] Tony Christensen: [00:28:09] I would say it’s going to be hard for both people, honestly. It’s yeah, it, I think the small business push with Facebook was this was it was a marketing ploy. It was a good idea. It looked nice on paper, but it, I honestly, I think they care more about the people that are spending more money, the bigger businesses.

[00:28:28] But it’s going to affect both people in different ways, depending on how you’re using Facebook. So smaller businesses, you might just be doing lead generation and a lot of that stuff, you’re still gonna be able to track like, Some of our clients, I’m just running an ad to a lead form. And even if I don’t get that data back in Facebook, I can still count how many leads I got them.

[00:28:46] So that’s not going to be impacted that much. It’s more of like the remarketing the optimization if, you’re selling e-commerce and things like that’s going to be effected. And that will affect everyone. Gotcha. 

[00:28:59] Erik Fisher: [00:28:59] Gotcha. 

[00:29:01] Jeff Sieh: [00:29:01] When I read this in an article at one of the articles that we were talking about, this says, when companies find it, when companies fight over customers, the customer always wins.

[00:29:10] But do you think there will ever be a clear winner here, Jessica? What are your thoughts on that? 

[00:29:15] Jessika Phillips: [00:29:15] Yeah, that’ll be the customer. So like to Eric’s point, they took over Twitter, right? Like I think everyone’s at a point of just saying, okay, we’re not silly. We see what’s going on here. And we’re wanting to speak up for it.

[00:29:29] We know that this is a marketing ploy. So this goes back to. The brands that are going to win and that clients that are going to win are the people that truly are just doing good business. So it goes back to, we’ve seen that already. Now. I think 2020 just accelerated the growth of this because. So many people were now Oh my goodness, we have to get our business online.

[00:29:52] We have to provide a better experience online. We have to do better ads because now everybody’s doing ads. And so the customer is going to be the one that wins because they’re going to have more options than ever before to choose who they want to do business with how their dollar is spent.

[00:30:08] And the only the brands that are going to win. And the tech companies that are going to win are going to be the one that just. Puts their money where their mouth is and is going to provide the best experience for, everyone. Yeah, it will, it’ll be interesting to see how this all shakes 

[00:30:20] Tony Christensen: [00:30:20] out. 

[00:30:21] Jeff Sieh: [00:30:21] So Tony, I want to circle around back to when we were talking about communication and just commissioned this at the beginning.

[00:30:29] Facebook complaint in newspapers. Which is pretty ironic that the largest online ad company put them there. It’s I don’t do they even know? Yeah. It’s like how do I, even open a newspaper? Which side do I read it on? But I wanted it to, because there is also a disconnect for, like people starting out and communicating to your clients.

[00:30:51] And I just, I want to pull back a little bit Tony and ask With all this stuff going on, what’s the stat or the report or whatever that if you’re starting to run Facebook ads that you need to be considered like looking at the most is there, a certain stat you need to make sure you communicate to your clients, or if you’re doing them by yourself that you need to.

[00:31:11] Is there like one little like magic thing that you, give people like, this is what you need to check like we always talk about bounce rate on websites is there a certain thing that you liked, like a, single kind of data point you like really point to when you’re doing Facebook ads?

[00:31:25] Tony Christensen: [00:31:25] Yeah. It can depend on the client. Some people look at return on ad spend. If it’s three, for example, that means I’ve made $3 in sales for every dollar in the ad that I’ve spent. Other people look at like cost per acquisition. So how much does a lead cost? How much does that purchase cost that new client costs?

[00:31:45] So those are, I would say the two main metrics. Those might be a little bit harder at least to look at in Facebook. Like I said if you’re, sending people in one of the ways that people can fix this problem going forward is if I have a landing page right now that I’m sending people to organically and with ads, to get leads since Facebook is going to be more limited. Now, what I would do is just duplicate that landing page and send all my traffic from ads to one landing page and all my other traffic to a different landing page. So you can still look at the data. I’m in Google analytics and just your, leads that are coming in to still be able to calculate what’s that cost per lead.

[00:32:25] So you can shift it that way still with these changes that are happening. Awesome. 

[00:32:29] Jeff Sieh: [00:32:29] Awesome. Thank you for that. Cause I threw that one kind of a curve ball for you. 

[00:32:35] Erik Fisher: [00:32:35] Is, this really a case where. The end use you, you basically have to choose to opt in or opt out. And how do you think that’s going to affect marketers?

[00:32:45] Cause I know Jessica now marketing now relationship marketing is all about opting in. So isn’t that going to always be better and driving people to opt into your, company or to your clients, companies even. 

[00:33:00] Jessika Phillips: [00:33:00] Yeah. In my opinion, yes. I think you have to build some kind of community and getting them to opt in is going to be the only way, like I mentioned before, this isn’t just an ad thing.

[00:33:11] This is going to, be an SEO thing too, where cookies are going to be going away. It’s going to be harder to track even people that are coming from a search. So it’s just saying that. Sooner or later you’re going to have to already have your audience built in where they’re talking about you and referring you.

[00:33:29] So it’s almost going back to the good old days of word of mouth, but now world of mouth that’s going to be the best lead generator. So you need to get people to opt into you. Yes. Do we do ads and believe in them? Yes. But. The best way to get the business and to keep it. And the, one that’s going to be the most profitable.

[00:33:48] Of course, it’s going to be focusing on your audience that you have getting them to opt in and giving them something worthy of opting in for, and continuing that 

[00:33:55] Tony Christensen: [00:33:55] relationship. 

[00:33:57] Jeff Sieh: [00:33:57] So Facebook, they made a big deal out of this that they estimate a 60% swing in advertising effectiveness between targeting and non targeting advertisement.

[00:34:07] But. Honestly our, most small businesses is using this and we, it a little bit before, and it actually even said somebody said, that’s what they do, but aren’t most of them hitting the boost button. Is it going to be that big a deal? What’d you say? 

[00:34:23] Jessika Phillips: [00:34:23] Sorry. Until we tell them there’s a better way.

[00:34:29] They think they are doing ads. Tony, you could answer 

[00:34:32] Tony Christensen: [00:34:32] this one. I would say, let’s say if you’re just using the boost button, you’ll probably be fine. You’re still going to be able to boost and it’s going to give you the same mediocre results, probably that you’ve been getting. For the I know people that actually business owners that might have bought a course or watch some YouTube videos and then they started to run ads.

[00:34:52] And those type of people that are actually running ads in ads manager, it will affect. And I think it will make it quite a bit harder, at least in the meantime, until Facebook rolls out more of their solutions like that statistical modeling and things that they’re going to be doing. I think it will affect them pretty poorly going forward.

[00:35:09] Which is the, poor part of it. You’re going to have to work with someone that knows what they’re doing. That’s really working on it, like conversations because that’s, these are the people that you need to be working with because they’re the the, there’s right now that are talking about it, that are like I I joined a clubhouse room and we got together a bunch of media buyers, and I got a a guy from Snapchat and the guy from Google and was like, what is your rep saying?

[00:35:30] What is your rep saying? You need to find these kinds of people that are working together with other people to find the solutions, like I said, with making a different landing page. So there’s going to be other ways that you can track things. But as a small business owner, you’re not necessarily going to know what to do and it’s not going to be simple.

[00:35:46] You’re gonna have to really think it through, or you’re going to have to probably reach out to someone for that kind of help. 

[00:35:52] Jeff Sieh: [00:35:52] You 

[00:35:52] just sending harder. That’s what, I’m hearing. It’s going to be harder. Yeah. Gotcha. Not fun, but anyway so Tony, I’m going to go to you and then but what, do you think the F read the tea leaves are?

[00:36:02] Let’s just, let’s not even go like more than a year. Let’s just say the rest of 20, 21. Where do you think that we’re going to end up? Are we going to have, is it going to be such a specialized field? Like you just mentioned that we’re going to have to. Just budget. Like I have to punch in accountant cause I hate doing that kind of crap.

[00:36:21] Is it going to be the same thing? Like I know I need Facebook ads, but I, just, I’m going to have to hire that out. Is that what you’re thinking in 2021? 

[00:36:29] Tony Christensen: [00:36:29] Yeah, I would say that’s, going to be a good move for most people. Or it’s going to be a combination of kind of what I’m saying, what Jessica saying, where.

[00:36:38] Instead of let’s do ads to sell. It’s going to be, let’s do ads to send people to a landing page for that Legion item, to start that relationship and then use email marketing, use SMS marketing, use a chat bot, whatever it might be to build your relationship with that person. So I think, that’s really the future that for the ad side of things, There’s a lot.

[00:36:57] You can still do. People are implementing more things like a post-purchase survey. So after someone buys from you, you can then say, how did you hear about us and that kind of thing to figure out, did it come from Facebook and all that kind of stuff. There’s different methods. But I think, ultimately it’s going to be let’s, add more people to our email list and market to them for free there.

[00:37:16] You know what I mean? 

[00:37:18] Erik Fisher: [00:37:18] Yeah. Jessica, what about you? What are your, tea leaves say to you? 

[00:37:22] Jessika Phillips: [00:37:22] Yeah, I would say it’s going to cause a lot more brands to pause and rethink what they’re actually doing. So not necessarily do I need to hire an advertiser? Yes. If you’re going to do advertising.

[00:37:33] Yes. But I think you first need to think what is my long end game. If I didn’t have any ad targeting in place and it wasn’t working for me how can I be in control of. My business and, the revenue that comes from it. And necessarily if it’s email or if it’s user generated content campaigns or whatever, you just need to start thinking, not just in the now, but what do you want to happen in a year from now or five years from now?

[00:38:05] If you were only reliant on your own home base, what is that going to look like? So I really think just brands need to start asking that question and really start. Being more strategic about what they’re doing instead of just thinking in the moment and doing that thing because it’s instant. 

[00:38:21] Jeff Sieh: [00:38:21] Very cool.

[00:38:22] So before we would go on to our next section, I do want to say, cause I get this question all the time on all the socials are like, okay, Jeff, how are you doing this live thingy and going everywhere? That’s brought to you, today’s powered by e-comm. They are incredible. If you’d like to know more, you need to go to social media news, alive.com forward slash e-com.

[00:38:41] One of the cool things is it lets you customize stuff. To be honest, I waited too long and I just made this screen where we have all four of us, like. right before the show. So it’s super simple to put together. I love the guys that he cam I can go live everywhere at once. Pulling all these comments from people like grace and windy and Sabrina and have it on screen.

[00:39:00] So if you want to find out more about them, go to social media news, live.com. Forward slash e-com and check them out. And that’s econ with E it’s, E C a M for you guys, listening on the podcast. Eric, why don’t you go ahead and tell us about this last piece of news that we want to cover. That kind of ties into all this.

[00:39:19] Erik Fisher: [00:39:19] Yeah. So staying on the Facebook data train here. So this week Facebook updated its access, your information tool with the goal of making that tool easier to use and navigate, and also explain how and why the data is used. And in this new version, they’re breaking down. Information across eight channels instead of just two previously.

[00:39:45] And so these eight channels, let me run through them real quick. It’s your activity across Facebook, friends and followers preferences, personal information, logged information. What we were just talking about, ads information, and then apps and websites off of Facebook. And then of course the security and login information.

[00:40:08] This is pretty interesting to me. I’m always interested when Facebook starts to at least put out the appearance of giving you more control over the data that they have on you. How do you see this being different from the what am I seeing? Why am I seeing this tool? 

[00:40:30] Tony Christensen: [00:40:30] That you can find 

[00:40:30] Jeff Sieh: [00:40:30] yourself on ad.

[00:40:31] Just a good go ahead. 

[00:40:33] Jessika Phillips: [00:40:33] Oh, sorry. Yeah, I was just going to say, in my opinion, it’s just really, honestly, another kind of PR thing to make you think that you have more control over things and to give you access which where it is good I’ve turned off several things and it’s a good reminder when things are connected that maybe you just forgot about.

[00:40:52] And it is a good tool, but honestly going back to what’s really going on here. That’s what it is. 

[00:40:59] Jeff Sieh: [00:40:59] Yeah. Tony, what are your thoughts on that? I use it to look at comp competition stuff. It’s like, when I go look and see if I’m seeing ads what are they, how are they doing that? I use it to sneak around.

[00:41:10] But what is it rolling out to all users? Have you seen it yet? As I don’t even know when it’s coming out. I just see that the other tool that I’m gonna use it. I’m 

[00:41:20] Tony Christensen: [00:41:20] not sure if I’ve seen it yet. Or if I’ve even looked into it that much. But yeah, it was interesting to me. They roll out some of these tools and they might not tell people that they were all at the tools and they might not put up a New York times ad saying they have this tool right there.

[00:41:36] They’re talking about other things in their ads. So it is always interesting to me when they roll out things like this, how often they’ll actually publicize it. So that’s, my thing going forward. It’ll be interesting to see, like how often is this going to pop up and how many times are they going to tell people this exists?

[00:41:50] Or is it just going to be something that they say Oh, we implemented this tool, but they didn’t really advertise it much. So that’s always what I do. 

[00:41:57] Jessika Phillips: [00:41:57] I think, 

[00:41:57] it was like a political move too, because they were getting some flack about having the WhatsApp and. Instagram and Facebook connected together.

[00:42:07] And the fear of Hey, are they coming too much as a monopoly? Do we need to separate them? They’re like, Ooh, let’s throw together some more stuff and show just how transparent we are out there as well. And that. Nothing, to see nothing going on here, you have full control or promise. 

[00:42:23] Jeff Sieh: [00:42:23] So I th I think you’re right.

[00:42:25] It’s a PR and political move. And I also want to know what you guys think. Do people, other than us marketing nerds use this. My mom does. She couldn’t find it if I told her how to get to it, it’s that so do you think this is, will anybody use this really? Or is it just for us.

[00:42:43] Tony Christensen: [00:42:43] Yeah I don’t, think very many people will use it. Like I said, unless if they make it really easy to access and they give people instructions on it. I don’t think very many people will use it outside of. Yeah, social media managers and people that are really in 

[00:42:56] Jeff Sieh: [00:42:56] social. All right. Yeah it’s just, funny because they tied into stuff and I, and it is, it’s funny that you’ll see those things pop up right after something bad happens. There’s some data leak or Oh, by the way, but you can find your data right here. Buried under three menus and you have to hold your phone upside down and stuff.

[00:43:16] Anyway this has been a fascinating conversation with you guys and thank you guys so much. I love being able to talk about the agency side and Jessica with her relationship marketing and Tony, I can’t wait to have you guys on again with more ad stuff, braces. I, this is nerdy stuff, but it’s really fascinating to me because it does tie in.

[00:43:37] The, more and more of the, ad stuff is going to tie into that relation marketing to be effective. And so I just think it’s a really cool Jessica, how you, your, the way you guys come across from that? And I want to pull up some Carrie says it looks great. She was talking about my screen, that I made really quick with e-com, which is really awesome.

[00:43:54] Cause it’s so fat, really fast. And then Pat. She goes, Oh, miss. This live will Pat, thank you so much for dropping by, but before we go, I want to make sure that we are able to let you guys talk about where they can find out more about you, Jessica, and then we’ll, go over to Tony. 

[00:44:10] Jessika Phillips: [00:44:10] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:44:12] Always you can connect with us@nowmarketinggroup.com or you can just go to my personal site, Jessica Phillips and it’s Jessica with the K phillips.com and the social links are there. 

[00:44:24] Jeff Sieh: [00:44:24] Awesome. Tell me what about you? 

[00:44:26] Tony Christensen: [00:44:26] Yeah. Now marketing group.com and yeah, if you want to talk to me personally, ask me a question or whatever.

[00:44:30] I’m everywhere online at Tony does ads. I’m pretty much always talking about ads. So yeah, that’s 

[00:44:36] Jeff Sieh: [00:44:36] true. And I clipped her so we can find you guys on clubhouse too. I know that you guys are both there quite a bit. And we talked about that a little bit last week. So if you haven’t listened to that episode, make sure you go back and listen to that.

[00:44:46] Cause we had Holly Homer edition on all things clubhouse and what she thought about it. But before I want to wrap up, when I tell you about a tool that a lot of my friends are using it just as a new one, it’s really, cool. It’s called lead closer. And that’s a L E a D K L O Z E R. And it’s this Facebook growth tool that I’ve really been enjoyed playing with.

[00:45:06] And it’s a way to automatically track Facebook engagements by individual leads in your fans. And over time are all in one place. It’s really a great way to see all your engaged fans are at a glance all in one place. And I’m really excited to see how I can use this with. Live video. So my friend, Steve McDonald is actually running a challenge starting on Monday, January teeth.

[00:45:26] So you need to check it out. If you go to social media news.com forward slash lead closer, that’s Lea D K L O Z R. You can check out that landing page there and sign up for that free course that he’s that free challenge he’s putting together. But before we go once again, I want to let you Eric tell everybody where they can find you because you got some stuff going on as well.

[00:45:47] Erik Fisher: [00:45:47] Yeah okay. So my podcast, which always new episodes weekly if you’re like me, you’re working from home and you need to up your game productivity wise. So I got you covered with beyond the to-do list, which you can find at, beyond the to-do list.com. Now, if you’ve got more time and you need to.

[00:46:05] Get your social media training, or if you know somebody on your team that needs to get some more social media training. We’ve Agorapulse has you covered with the social media manager school and you can go to social media manager, school.com and get over 70 plus hours of free social media training and it’s being updated constantly.

[00:46:25] Jeff Sieh: [00:46:25] Awesome. So guys, go check that out. Thank you guys so much for watching. Appreciate all of you. Let us hear from you on all the socials and with that, we’ll see you guys next time. Bye. And the recording’s off. Thank you guys so much. We’re still alive, but I wanted to say, thank you. Thank you guys so much for chime in and comment wise.

[00:46:43] I really appreciate all you guys and all the people who shared this out, but you guys were awesome as always. Thank you. Hope I didn’t stump you with any nerdy questions, but this stuff is just fascinating. So 

[00:46:54] Jessika Phillips: [00:46:54] what we do all day, even when we’re not technically working. Yeah, we’re 

[00:46:58] Jeff Sieh: [00:46:58] good. So we tease the clubhouse a little bit.

[00:47:02] Is w where if people want to connect with you over there, I know it’s hard with the discovery and stuff. And we talked a little bit about that last week, but where can they, like, where would they be able to find you? Do you, is it just Jessica Phillips and Tony Christianson or, how this.

[00:47:13] Yeah. Yep. Okay, cool. 

[00:47:17] Jessika Phillips: [00:47:17] Tony does clubhouse. Yeah, 

[00:47:21] Jeff Sieh: [00:47:21] you guys. Thank you so much. Appreciate all you guys. Thank you, Carrie, for saying love the show. We love you. You’re awesome. You’ve always been so supportive. Really appreciate that. And we’ll see you guys next week. Same time. Same channel. Bye now. 

[00:47:35] Tony Christensen: [00:47:35] Bye.



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